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This has major betting implications – politicalbetting.com

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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Thank god. A moderate middle ground on these issues is within our grasp if the Tories choose well and Starmer holds his position.
    Starmer’s comments at the Prick News awards raises concerns that he’d make NHS England’s proposed approach illegal.

    And of course NHS Scotland continues to follow the Mermaid model.
    One imagines as the approach becomes embedded it's a fight that Starmer won't bother having and will just leave the status quo in place. It seems like a loser for Labour to reopen any of this stuff as it just repels voters and if the Tories look half sensible again next year these issues could shift votes.
    Stamer is trying to repeat the Blair playbook, lots of nods towards lots of causes to try and build as big a collation of anti-Tory voters as possible. Hence trying to claim Brexit is a done deal, then some murmuring about PR, etc.
    I don't get any sense of what Starmer actually believes. He has the air of a technocrat. But that doesn't inspire passion or enthusiasm.

    Starmerism doesn't exist. I don't think it is ever going to exist.

    He has dumped a significant number of his
    leadership election pledges.

    In that he is very much a typical politician.

    But as the likely PM after the GE whenever that comes, I would like some inkling as to a personal philosophy.

    I just do not believe he has one. Not that I could ever vote Labour. But I would still like a sense of something behind the eyes.
    For me, if it's Johnson v Starmer at the GE...
    Well, I certainly don't think Starmer is the messiah, but I do know Johnson is a very naughty boy. And I'll vote accordingly
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2022

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Hu Jintao reminded me of how Biden is most of the time....the difference is old Winnie the Pooh is in absolute control.

    BIDEN: "It's my intention to run again."

    Q: "Dr. Biden is for it?"

    BIDEN: *silence*

    Q: "Mr. President?"

    BIDEN: "Dr. Biden thinks that uh, my wife thinks that uh, that I uh, that, that we're, that we're doing something very important."

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1583601424968994816?s=20&t=C7g62gjPavqcntDt4kBGMA
    You mock Biden relentlessly, yet next week we will have to contend with more Peppa Pig diplomacy. The world is laughing at us, not Biden.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Have taken profit on the BoJo to get 100 noms market
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Hu Jintao reminded me of how Biden is most of the time....the difference is old Winnie the Pooh is in absolute control.

    BIDEN: "It's my intention to run again."

    Q: "Dr. Biden is for it?"

    BIDEN: *silence*

    Q: "Mr. President?"

    BIDEN: "Dr. Biden thinks that uh, my wife thinks that uh, that I uh, that, that we're, that we're doing something very important."

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1583601424968994816?s=20&t=C7g62gjPavqcntDt4kBGMA
    Lucid as ever, the leader of the free world
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited October 2022

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Thank god. A moderate middle ground on these issues is within our grasp if the Tories choose well and Starmer holds his position.
    Starmer’s comments at the Prick News awards raises concerns that he’d make NHS England’s proposed approach illegal.

    And of course NHS Scotland continues to follow the Mermaid model.
    One imagines as the approach becomes embedded it's a fight that Starmer won't bother having and will just leave the status quo in place. It seems like a loser for Labour to reopen any of this stuff as it just repels voters and if the Tories look half sensible again next year these issues could shift votes.
    Stamer is trying to repeat the Blair playbook, lots of nods towards lots of causes to try and build as big a collation of anti-Tory voters as possible. Hence trying to claim Brexit is a done deal, then some murmuring about PR, etc.
    I don't get any sense of what Starmer actually believes. He has the air of a technocrat. But that doesn't inspire passion or enthusiasm.

    Starmerism doesn't exist. I don't think it is ever going to exist.

    He has dumped a significant number of his
    leadership election pledges.

    In that he is very much a typical politician.

    But as the likely PM after the GE whenever that comes, I would like some inkling as to a personal philosophy.

    I just do not believe he has one. Not that I could ever vote Labour. But I would still like a sense of something behind the eyes.
    I don't know, I think he is more political, more of a man on a mission, than Dave "I think I would be good at the job" Cameron. If he really knows how to do is another matter and just as importantly will the economy / markets let him (lets not forget that the instant response to Tory tax cuts was to promise to put them back, not to steady the markets, but to spend that money on new pet projects).

    However, he is a) a technocrat and b) being advised by New Labour grandees to play up the boring technocrat as a strength against all the nonsense that is going on with the Tories....and by staying vague not piss off people.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that this time around, Johnson really is crashing and won't get the MP's. The Lord Frost intervention is very significant.
    If this is correct, the question is whether Braverman/Badenoch or someone else on the 'right' decide to try their luck. In which case their odds (which are currently insanely long) will rapidly shorten.

    If Boris isn't getting the numbers, they aren't getting the numbers.

    There are only 3 players in this contest. One of those is nowhere near (without a huge lending of votes; another is scrabbling to meet the thresh-hold that was set high to keep him out the running.

    Rishi, for once in his life, is actually head and shoulders above the others.

    Until the members get a say. They do seem to be the most ornery bunch of grumpy bastards. They seem intent on going for the Thelma and Louise ending.....
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Thank god. A moderate middle ground on these issues is within our grasp if the Tories choose well and Starmer holds his position.
    Starmer’s comments at the Prick News awards raises concerns that he’d make NHS England’s proposed approach illegal.

    And of course NHS Scotland continues to follow the Mermaid model.
    One imagines as the approach becomes embedded it's a fight that Starmer won't bother having and will just leave the status quo in place. It seems like a loser for Labour to reopen any of this stuff as it just repels voters and if the Tories look half sensible again next year these issues could shift votes.
    Stamer is trying to repeat the Blair playbook, lots of nods towards lots of causes to try and build as big a collation of anti-Tory voters as possible. Hence trying to claim Brexit is a done deal, then some murmuring about PR, etc.
    I don't get any sense of what Starmer actually believes. He has the air of a technocrat. But that doesn't inspire passion or enthusiasm.

    Starmerism doesn't exist. I don't think it is ever going to exist.

    He has dumped a significant number of his
    leadership election pledges.

    In that he is very much a typical politician.

    But as the likely PM after the GE whenever that comes, I would like some inkling as to a personal philosophy.

    I just do not believe he has one. Not that I could ever vote Labour. But I would still like a sense of something behind the eyes.
    The flip side of that is that he might be well equipped to cope with a minority Government and a need for SNP and LibDem votes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    Andy_JS said:

    Heathener said:

    13% don't have email addresses?

    What do you reckon that figure is in the general adult population? 0.3%?

    More like 5%. Mostly elderly, but some people choose not to use it.
    And among the younger generation - they regard email as a thing for old people. Slow, vast quantities of spam…. My daughters only use email for signup for online accounts.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055

    Much better Scottish Labour numbers in today’s YouGov:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 35%
    SCon 9%
    SLD 8%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%
    oth 1%

    That’s too different to be “real”. One of them must have some odd features surely? (I’m more inclined to believe a whacking great SNP lead).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited October 2022

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Hu Jintao reminded me of how Biden is most of the time....the difference is old Winnie the Pooh is in absolute control.

    BIDEN: "It's my intention to run again."

    Q: "Dr. Biden is for it?"

    BIDEN: *silence*

    Q: "Mr. President?"

    BIDEN: "Dr. Biden thinks that uh, my wife thinks that uh, that I uh, that, that we're, that we're doing something very important."

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1583601424968994816?s=20&t=C7g62gjPavqcntDt4kBGMA
    You mock Biden relentlessly, yet next week we will have to contend with more Peppa Pig diplomacy. The world is laughing at us, not Biden.
    Relentlessly is a stretching it a bit....I have hardly posted in 6 months and think this is my first mention of Biden since I returned.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    I think there is a mistaken idea that they are in competition for "talent" rather than providing the platform which creates a form of celebrity for journalists of varying competence, presence, and public popularity.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405

    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that this time around, Johnson really is crashing and won't get the MP's. The Lord Frost intervention is very significant.
    If this is correct, the question is whether Braverman/Badenoch or someone else on the 'right' decide to try their luck. In which case their odds (which are currently insanely long) will rapidly shorten.

    If Boris isn't getting the numbers, they aren't getting the numbers.

    There are only 3 players in this contest. One of those is nowhere near (without a huge lending of votes; another is scrabbling to meet the thresh-hold that was set high to keep him out the running.

    Rishi, for once in his life, is actually head and shoulders above the others.

    Until the members get a say. They do seem to be the most ornery bunch of grumpy bastards. They seem intent on going for the Thelma and Louise ending.....
    The members are their own worst enemies. They chose MPs who dont agree with their views and then get upset when the MPs ignore them.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that this time around, Johnson really is crashing and won't get the MP's. The Lord Frost intervention is very significant.
    If this is correct, the question is whether Braverman/Badenoch or someone else on the 'right' decide to try their luck. In which case their odds (which are currently insanely long) will rapidly shorten.

    If Boris isn't getting the numbers, they aren't getting the numbers.

    There are only 3 players in this contest. One of those is nowhere near (without a huge lending of votes; another is scrabbling to meet the thresh-hold that was set high to keep him out the running.

    Rishi, for once in his life, is actually head and shoulders above the others.

    Until the members get a say. They do seem to be the most ornery bunch of grumpy bastards. They seem intent on going for the Thelma and Louise ending.....
    It's more like the ending to Black Adder goes Forth, with Lord Boris Melchett giving the order from his chateau for the nation to go over the top.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Anyway the very stong sentiment I've got from my short trip here is that if the tories want to keep seats like Hartlepool it has to be Johnson. No ifs, buts or maybes.

    They actively hate Sunak and have no idea who Penny Dreadful is.

    Also, I have never known so many people eager to discuss politics with a relative stranger. There's something happening here and what it is ain't exactly clear. I suspect the tories are Cretaceous dinosaurs and there is a big fuck off asteroid heading for the Gulf of Mexico.

    Something is happening here and I DO know what it is (Mr Ace). It's a fair chunk of the white working class projecting their urges onto a Big Daddy figure who in their eyes gets them, tells it like it is, and is refreshingly different to normal politicians who are "all the same". Johnson isn't a dead ringer for rancid right wing populists such as Trump or Bolso or (insert any of a dozen) but there is some essential similarity.
    I'm feeling strangely relaxed about the return of the FLSOJ. The reality is that he is finished, as are the Tories, whatever psychodrama plays out between now and the election. Boris Johnson and the English people who love him are of purely sociological and comedic interest to me now.
    Agree on what's coming at the GE - something good - but there's 2 ways I'm not 100% relaxed about the thought of him coming back. First off, just on the raw chemical level, I acutely dislike seeing and hearing him, which would start happening again if he's the PM. And second, having assessed the chances of him winning this as miniscule, I've laid the arse off him!
    Yes you definitely have skin in the game! I can't say I share your faith in him not coming back. The banter heuristic suggests it should be nailed on.
    I think Kinabalu is being very brave.

    Heart over head??
    His track record is miles better than yours: EICIPM. SKSWNBPM
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    biggles said:

    Much better Scottish Labour numbers in today’s YouGov:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 35%
    SCon 9%
    SLD 8%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%
    oth 1%

    That’s too different to be “real”. One of them must have some odd features surely? (I’m more inclined to believe a whacking great SNP lead).
    Last five proper Scottish polls had SNP leads of: 12, 15, 14, 16, 13
  • Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Thank god. A moderate middle ground on these issues is within our grasp if the Tories choose well and Starmer holds his position.
    Starmer’s comments at the Prick News awards raises concerns that he’d make NHS England’s proposed approach illegal.

    And of course NHS Scotland continues to follow the Mermaid model.
    One imagines as the approach becomes embedded it's a fight that Starmer won't bother having and will just leave the status quo in place. It seems like a loser for Labour to reopen any of this stuff as it just repels voters and if the Tories look half sensible again next year these issues could shift votes.
    Stamer is trying to repeat the Blair playbook, lots of nods towards lots of causes to try and build as big a collation of anti-Tory voters as possible. Hence trying to claim Brexit is a done deal, then some murmuring about PR, etc.
    I don't get any sense of what Starmer actually believes. He has the air of a technocrat. But that doesn't inspire passion or enthusiasm.

    Starmerism doesn't exist. I don't think it is ever going to exist.

    He has dumped a significant number of his
    leadership election pledges.

    In that he is very much a typical politician.

    But as the likely PM after the GE whenever that comes, I would like some inkling as to a personal philosophy.

    I just do not believe he has one. Not that I could ever vote Labour. But I would still like a sense of something behind the eyes.
    What is this nonsense? Starmer is a real person, like any of us. He has beliefs. He’s a social democrat, to the left of a Blair, to the right of a Corbyn. What is difficult to understand about this? Where does this dehumanising suggestion that he is lacking “something behind the eyes” come from?

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    ..

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited October 2022

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    Victoria Derbyshire is a classic example of media obsession with social media. Because some of her clips went viral they believe she is some massive draw....when the reality is nobody actually watched her show. Insert Piers Moron being another example, thought is his "brand" of being an aggressive arsehole host is what drove ratings because of some viral tweet videos of him shouting at ministers on GMB. Now virtually nobody tunes into his TalkTv show.

    Its the same time as the response to falling ratings is if we just reboot the show with a younger more diverse hosts / panel or we go for more outlandish style that will immediately reverse that decline e.g Question of Sport.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090

    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that this time around, Johnson really is crashing and won't get the MP's. The Lord Frost intervention is very significant.
    If this is correct, the question is whether Braverman/Badenoch or someone else on the 'right' decide to try their luck. In which case their odds (which are currently insanely long) will rapidly shorten.

    If Boris isn't getting the numbers, they aren't getting the numbers.

    There are only 3 players in this contest. One of those is nowhere near (without a huge lending of votes; another is scrabbling to meet the thresh-hold that was set high to keep him out the running.

    Rishi, for once in his life, is actually head and shoulders above the others.

    Until the members get a say. They do seem to be the most ornery bunch of grumpy bastards. They seem intent on going for the Thelma and Louise ending.....
    Let’s face it: there are 2 players in this contest: Sunak or Johnson. And the undeclared MPs who don’t want Sunak are wondering whether they can stomach Johnson.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Be interesting if Imelda allows them in Scotland NHS.
    Will be interesting as so far the Holyrood Committee on GRA reform has barely listened to any contrary evidence. Like Mordaunt she’s fallen for the vacuous. TWAW woo.
    Does a person who lives in England have any ability to seek treatment in Scotland? I know there’s a lot of cross-pollination between England and Wales (using GPs in the other country because it’s geographically logical) but that’s a very different border for the most part. The England/Scotland border is fairly sparsely populated along most of the length.

    If such a right exists, there’s going to be issues.
    If they start treatment in Scotland then expect it to be continued in England (where it’s against guidelines) there likely will be issues.

    There’s going to be issues with Scotlands GRA reform - is such recognition going to be recognised in the rest of the U.K.?
  • TSE is being unfair to the Conservative Party in this piece. I know for a fact (because I am one of them) that Conservative volunteers and Party staff are working tirelessly over the weekend to ensure that all members have the opportunity to take place in next week's ballot. We are where we are. We are working to make the best we can of the situation with which we are faced. That must be our first priority rather than ruminating about how we got here.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Did they give him a huge intro first?
  • mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    I think there is a mistaken idea that they are in competition for "talent" rather than providing the platform which creates a form of celebrity for journalists of varying competence, presence, and public popularity.
    There is also a habit of paying ex-footballers based on what footballers earn rather than what sports broadcasters need to earn. Lineker and Shearer are the most overpaid on tv by far. At the lower level Jenas and Richards get paid £200k yet are not even on an exclusive contract so also do stuff for BT.

    If they offered the same roles at £100k all four would still be filled by wannabe media ex footballers of a similar standard (as broadcasters).
  • biggles said:

    Much better Scottish Labour numbers in today’s YouGov:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 35%
    SCon 9%
    SLD 8%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%
    oth 1%

    That’s too different to be “real”. One of them must have some odd features surely? (I’m more inclined to believe a whacking great SNP lead).
    Last five proper Scottish polls had SNP leads of: 12, 15, 14, 16, 13
    It will be interesting to see what happens. I know people who support the SNP solely to show strong opposition to the Tories. If Labour look credible to win in England then a lot of them are happy to go back to voting Labour in Scotland. They also have noticed issues with devolved matters here and are thinking about giving the SNP a wakeup call. Political gravity may start to be showing?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Let the Beeb be right this once.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593
    Barnesian said:

    ..

    (That is your current extrapolation?)
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    Victoria Derbyshire is a classic example of media obsession with social media. Because some of her clips went viral they believe she is some massive draw....when the reality is nobody watched actually watched her show.

    Its the same time as the response to falling ratings is if we just reboot the show with a younger more diverse hosts / panel or we go for more outlandish style that will immediately reverse that decline e.g Question of Sport.
    Don’t remind me of how they killed Question of Sport. A sad, sad, day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.

    Johnson drifting out towards 5 this lunchtime.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,593

    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    I think there is a mistaken idea that they are in competition for "talent" rather than providing the platform which creates a form of celebrity for journalists of varying competence, presence, and public popularity.
    There is also a habit of paying ex-footballers based on what footballers earn rather than what sports broadcasters need to earn. Lineker and Shearer are the most overpaid on tv by far. At the lower level Jenas and Richards get paid £200k yet are not even on an exclusive contract so also do stuff for BT.

    If they offered the same roles at £100k all four would still be filled by wannabe media ex footballers of a similar standard (as broadcasters).
    They should be paying relative to a "pub landlord" index, like the good old days.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited October 2022

    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    I think there is a mistaken idea that they are in competition for "talent" rather than providing the platform which creates a form of celebrity for journalists of varying competence, presence, and public popularity.
    There is also a habit of paying ex-footballers based on what footballers earn rather than what sports broadcasters need to earn. Lineker and Shearer are the most overpaid on tv by far. At the lower level Jenas and Richards get paid £200k yet are not even on an exclusive contract so also do stuff for BT.

    If they offered the same roles at £100k all four would still be filled by wannabe media ex footballers of a similar standard (as broadcasters).
    And perhaps aside from Jenas, none really have any idea about modern football. They are clueless talking heads basing most of their comments on how it used to be back in their day (and none of the above even have shown success at high level coaching).

    You want to follow proper football analysts on twitter they have started really taking clips to task of what absolute bullshit is being spread.
  • Alistair said:

    Have taken profit on the BoJo to get 100 noms market

    So it was you! I was just composing a message that Boris was odds-against, and I looked up again and he wasn't.
  • Are we going to get a YouGov members poll?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited October 2022
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the gap between the amount of people who think Brexit was "wrong", in hindsight, and the amount who think it was "right" just keeps getting bigger and bigger

    https://twitter.com/simonjhix/status/1582292972221390850?s=46&t=7FGxXGIQZTvH8YW0p5eX4w

    Keir Starmer finds himself on the wrong side.
    Again.

    Thinking Brexit was a mistake and wanting to spend huge amounts of time and energy on negotiating the UK’s re-entry are two very different things. My guess is that most people are far keener on a much better relationship with the EU than they are about rejoining, which is exactly where Starmer is. There is certainly space to go further, though, as whoever ends up leading the Tories cannot begin to accept the Brexit deal Johnson negotiated was awful.

    Over two-thirds of Scots want to rejoin the EU

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20681698.two-thirds-scots-want-rejoin-eu/

    And that was in August. The UK-wide data indicates that things have swung even more to the pro-Europe side since then.

    Starmer has made some appalling strategic choices, and being pro-Brexit is one of the biggest. An epic fail.
    So Scots think it’s a bad idea to leave long-established and successful unions that promote trade and security in search of mythical extra sovereignty, but they were pushed into it by a bunch of corrupt xenophobes?🤔
    Were not pushed , just totally ignored and dragged out by those Jingoist halfwits in Westminster. Sooner we get out of this banana republic the better.
    If I was the SNP, I reckon I’d just get on with detailed design work and think about an all party constitutional convention. Basically act like it’s inevitable - which it probably is.
    No it isn't, especially under a likely Labour government shortly offering devomax
    That th esame one offered in 2014 then
    Scotland Act 2016 partly delivered it but in 2014 of course there was a Tory led UK government
    Now that is the most outrageous fib* on PB all day, that the 2016 act [edit: typo in date corrected] provided devomax.

    *Even when someone is only quoting someone else.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    edited October 2022

    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that this time around, Johnson really is crashing and won't get the MP's. The Lord Frost intervention is very significant.
    If this is correct, the question is whether Braverman/Badenoch or someone else on the 'right' decide to try their luck. In which case their odds (which are currently insanely long) will rapidly shorten.

    If Boris isn't getting the numbers, they aren't getting the numbers.

    There are only 3 players in this contest. One of those is nowhere near (without a huge lending of votes; another is scrabbling to meet the thresh-hold that was set high to keep him out the running.

    Rishi, for once in his life, is actually head and shoulders above the others.

    Until the members get a say. They do seem to be the most ornery bunch of grumpy bastards. They seem intent on going for the Thelma and Louise ending.....
    Let’s face it: there are 2 players in this contest: Sunak or Johnson. And the undeclared MPs who don’t want Sunak are wondering whether they can stomach Johnson.
    Even if they can stomach Johnson, are they prepared to put the nation through the spectacle of him being painted as a mendacious threat to national security when the Committee on Privileges reports?

    It's not like they haven't been warned it is a very material risk. Entirely on their shoulders if we have yet another PM before Christmas.

    It is beyond me how any on that declared list can take the risk. They must REALLY hate Sunak to put Party and country through that turmoil. The markets will be brutally unkind, much worse than we saw for Truss.
  • Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.

    I will not be supporting Boris. He still has the same weaknesses as before. I am ambivalent about Rishi vs Penny - neither have the ability to change the political weather. I suspect the pain coming along as we enter a period of higher interest rates will kill off a lot of in-power governments across the World - it's just what happens. Thank God Labour have not still got Corbyn as leader.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    edited October 2022
    I don't think Tory MPs have any leverage over Tory members. It's the reverse if anything. So it doesn't matter what sort of a lead Sunak has - the members will vote for Johnson, given the choice over Sunak.

    With Mordaunt it's different. I've seen no polls of members of Sunak versus Mordaunt but I would guess she has a big lead over him. She's the members' kind of person. Her policies don't matter. She presents well, tall and impressive and not ... you know. They can see some chance of her winning the next General. They may give her a chance versus Boris.

    So to stop Boris, MPs need to get Penny into the last two. That means Sunak standing aside for the good of the party and the good of the country. He'll be rewarded with FS and will help save the UK economy and the Tory party.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    mwadams said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    (That is your current extrapolation?)
    yes
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Be interesting if Imelda allows them in Scotland NHS.
    Will be interesting as so far the Holyrood Committee on GRA reform has barely listened to any contrary evidence. Like Mordaunt she’s fallen for the vacuous. TWAW woo.
    Does a person who lives in England have any ability to seek treatment in Scotland? I know there’s a lot of cross-pollination between England and Wales (using GPs in the other country because it’s geographically logical) but that’s a very different border for the most part. The England/Scotland border is fairly sparsely populated along most of the length.

    If such a right exists, there’s going to be issues.
    If they start treatment in Scotland then expect it to be continued in England (where it’s against guidelines) there likely will be issues.

    There’s going to be issues with Scotlands GRA reform - is such recognition going to be recognised in the rest of the U.K.?
    In principle, no different from any other drug or treatment. The differtent approval systems mean that there are some cases where the one treatmenty can be had in one country but not the other, and vice versa (with a subvariant, presuimably, of whether it can be had if you pay). You want one of those treatments, you move.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-return-would-be-a-disaster-says-scottish-tories-leader-douglas-ross-vz70hfzc7?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1666302421-1

    'Douglas Ross has bristled at the prospect of Boris Johnson returning to power as party colleagues said it would be a “disaster” for the Scottish Conservatives and the Union.

    Nevertheless, the Scottish Conservative leader vowed to work with whoever becomes prime minister and rejected calls for a general election.'

    Fitba ref expects to run from one end of the field to the other, yet again. Astounding news.

    So just like Starmer who served loyally in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829

    Much better Scottish Labour numbers in today’s YouGov:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 35%
    SCon 9%
    SLD 8%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%
    oth 1%

    That's a lot of Scottish seats for Labour. If it's anything like that Labour could be heading for a 1997 landslide even with a Tory recovery from extinction to merely crap.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    I think there's a growing chance Sunak will close this out in the nomination round. Momentum on his side and MPs want to be on the right side of the new leader.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Guido's spreadsheet named supporters since overnight:

    Rishi +17
    Boris +3

    Boris has also lost one unnamed Party Officer.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    felix said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnsons-return-would-be-a-disaster-says-scottish-tories-leader-douglas-ross-vz70hfzc7?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1666302421-1

    'Douglas Ross has bristled at the prospect of Boris Johnson returning to power as party colleagues said it would be a “disaster” for the Scottish Conservatives and the Union.

    Nevertheless, the Scottish Conservative leader vowed to work with whoever becomes prime minister and rejected calls for a general election.'

    Fitba ref expects to run from one end of the field to the other, yet again. Astounding news.

    So just like Starmer who served loyally in Jeremy Corbyn's shadow cabinet...
    Mr Ross has rather more of a back history of changing his mind.
  • MaxPB said:

    Much better Scottish Labour numbers in today’s YouGov:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 35%
    SCon 9%
    SLD 8%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%
    oth 1%

    That's a lot of Scottish seats for Labour. If it's anything like that Labour could be heading for a 1997 landslide even with a Tory recovery from extinction to merely crap.
    Opinium's MRP survey gave Labour 15 seats.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,020
    edited October 2022
    Glue idiots! Extinction Rebellion activists infiltrate Paris Motor Show to glue themselves to Ferrari supercars

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11343053/Extinction-Rebellion-activists-infiltrate-Paris-Motor-glue-Ferrari-supercars.html

    Put a screen around them and just leave them there for a few days in their own piss and shit.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    biggles said:

    mwadams said:

    I always think the stupid gotcha questions over tell me the price of x is pathetic.

    There's always the overpowering sense that the person posing the question looked it up for the interview.
    Undoubtedly, the BBC talking head on £400k a year isn't keeping close check on price of milk in Asda to the penny.

    Like me, I am sure they are just filling a trolley in Waitrose (or online with Ocado) and rather have a rough idea of the weekly cost having risen a lot.
    This is something I can't work out about the BBC. Solid £65,000 a year lifetime correspondents are in the BBC rich list on £400,000 a year before you know it, all with grand titles. We don't need them, the BBC doesn't need them. What earthly use is Victoria Derbyshire anyway?
    Victoria Derbyshire is a classic example of media obsession with social media. Because some of her clips went viral they believe she is some massive draw....when the reality is nobody watched actually watched her show.

    Its the same time as the response to falling ratings is if we just reboot the show with a younger more diverse hosts / panel or we go for more outlandish style that will immediately reverse that decline e.g Question of Sport.
    Don’t remind me of how they killed Question of Sport. A sad, sad, day.
    Mock The Week has gone too. A "familiar" format for sure, but still worth winnowing the chaff for the odd kernal. They added women panellists, but it is essentially a blokey gethering, taking the piss out of people.

    The Beeb also lost the NFL show. Osi, Jason and Chappers was the best bloke TV there was. Quite superb.

    Of course it had to die.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    Barnesian said:

    I don't think Tory MPs have any leverage over Tory members. It's the reverse if anything. So it doesn't matter what sort of a lead Sunak has - the members will vote for Johnson, given the choice over Sunak.

    With Mordaunt it's different. I've seen no polls of members of Sunak versus Mordaunt but I would guess she has a big lead over him. She's the members' kind of person. Her policies don't matter. She presents well, tall and impressive and not ... you know. They can see some chance of her winning the next General. They may give her a chance versus Boris.

    So to stop Boris, MPs need to get Penny into the last two. That means Sunak standing aside for the good of the party and the good of the country. He'll be rewarded with FS and will help save the UK economy and the Tory party.

    Only if Boris looks like getting 100 supporters which is looking less and less likely - hence Mordaunt's lengthening odds.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583
    edited October 2022
    ..
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    MikeL said:

    Guido's spreadsheet named supporters since overnight:

    Rishi +17
    Boris +3

    Boris has also lost one unnamed Party Officer.

    Boris has definitely stalled this morning. I don't think he gets to 100.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.

    Johnson drifting out towards 5 this lunchtime.
    Yep. Bubble popping now, I think. Double digits soon.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,995
    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    No, I think the MPs will attempt to avoid a ballot, have a PM in place by Monday evening.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    Boris hasn't added any new names since Pritti came out for him.

    A sign?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    Mordaunt withdraws before a vote, the deal was done in the week
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    biggles said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Is Wallace backing Johnson?

    I haven’t been able to find the exact quote but I’ve seen it portrayed as “leaning” Johnson. Which is an odd choice of words so makes me want to see what he’s said. Saying anything at all suggests he thinks Rishi would reshuffle him - but surely the party won’t have that.
    It's suggests he's something of a political imbecile.
    @TOPPING 's assessment is about right, I think.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Barnesian said:

    I don't think Tory MPs have any leverage over Tory members. It's the reverse if anything. So it doesn't matter what sort of a lead Sunak has - the members will vote for Johnson, given the choice over Sunak.

    With Mordaunt it's different. I've seen no polls of members of Sunak versus Mordaunt but I would guess she has a big lead over him. She's the members' kind of person. Her policies don't matter. She presents well, tall and impressive and not ... you know. They can see some chance of her winning the next General. They may give her a chance versus Boris.

    So to stop Boris, MPs need to get Penny into the last two. That means Sunak standing aside for the good of the party and the good of the country. He'll be rewarded with FS and will help save the UK economy and the Tory party.


    I get what you are saying but I think a line needs to be drawn in the sand now - the (arguably) “best” candidate, who only lost out to Truss because of her fantasy unicorn economic plan and the Mail’s campaign against Sunak, should not have to withdraw from a leading position for a “lesser” and less popular candidate amongst MPs because of fear of the membership.

    The membership needs to be told clearly and coldly that “this is it” - you correct the last mistake and get your heads out of your arses and vote Sunak if he has the support of a majority of MPs or see your beloved party smashed into tiny pieces by voting for Boris.

    If the members still don’t get it then the party deserves extinction.

    So yes I get the idea about “gaming” the situation but if it’s gamed it will never be a good situation medium term. It’s got to be the members deciding not to be utter members.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Be interesting if Imelda allows them in Scotland NHS.
    Will be interesting as so far the Holyrood Committee on GRA reform has barely listened to any contrary evidence. Like Mordaunt she’s fallen for the vacuous. TWAW woo.
    Does a person who lives in England have any ability to seek treatment in Scotland? I know there’s a lot of cross-pollination between England and Wales (using GPs in the other country because it’s geographically logical) but that’s a very different border for the most part. The England/Scotland border is fairly sparsely populated along most of the length.

    If such a right exists, there’s going to be issues.
    If they start treatment in Scotland then expect it to be continued in England (where it’s against guidelines) there likely will be issues.

    There’s going to be issues with Scotlands GRA reform - is such recognition going to be recognised in the rest of the U.K.?
    In principle, no different from any other drug or treatment. The differtent approval systems mean that there are some cases where the one treatmenty can be had in one country but not the other, and vice versa (with a subvariant, presuimably, of whether it can be had if you pay). You want one of those treatments, you move.
    There are going to be a number of substantial claims for children damaged by this process already. Does Scotland really want more? The NHS English guidelines seem eminently sensible to me.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,090
    kinabalu said:

    Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.

    Johnson drifting out towards 5 this lunchtime.
    Yep. Bubble popping now, I think. Double digits soon.
    Maybe he seemed a more attractive proposition when he was over the water, but now he’s back in the country, MPs are remembering what he’s like!

  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,583

    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    Mordaunt withdraws before a vote, the deal was done in the week
    That would be dangerous. Some of her supporters might go for Boris and tip him over 100.

    Unless you mean she made a deal with Boris? Unlikely surely?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,568
    MikeL said:

    Guido's spreadsheet named supporters since overnight:

    Rishi +17
    Boris +3

    Boris has also lost one unnamed Party Officer.

    Those "unnamed Party Officers" were always suspect....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Barnesian said:

    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    Mordaunt withdraws before a vote, the deal was done in the week
    That would be dangerous. Some of her supporters might go for Boris and tip him over 100.

    Unless you mean she made a deal with Boris? Unlikely surely?
    No i mean after nominations close. There will be no Sunak Mordaunt run off. Its Sunak Bozo or Coronation
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    If (God forbid) Boris wins then I think there is a good chance of an immediate crises preventing him becoming PM. All Tories fear an immediate election. If Say 100 state they will vote no confidence in Boris immediately it will be a fantastic game of chicken.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    Nigelb said:

    It really does sound absurd.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/status/1583693704917049345
    Stand back: the leader of a G7 country will be elected by an online poll of <80,000 people. Truly bizarre - and a major moment for ‘digital democracy’.</i>

    How is being elected by 356 people an improvement on 80,000.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Glue idiots! Extinction Rebellion activists infiltrate Paris Motor Show to glue themselves to Ferrari supercars

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11343053/Extinction-Rebellion-activists-infiltrate-Paris-Motor-glue-Ferrari-supercars.html

    Put a screen around them and just leave them there for a few days in their own piss and shit.

    It’s what Volkswagen did - and turned off the lighting and heating. They complained. Bless.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Ratters said:

    I think there's a growing chance Sunak will close this out in the nomination round. Momentum on his side and MPs want to be on the right side of the new leader.

    That's the most likely outcome imo. All over on Monday. Sunak.

    Btw I like how he's making sure to look very grave and serious in the glimpses we've had. Nice touch.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Be interesting if Imelda allows them in Scotland NHS.
    Will be interesting as so far the Holyrood Committee on GRA reform has barely listened to any contrary evidence. Like Mordaunt she’s fallen for the vacuous. TWAW woo.
    Does a person who lives in England have any ability to seek treatment in Scotland? I know there’s a lot of cross-pollination between England and Wales (using GPs in the other country because it’s geographically logical) but that’s a very different border for the most part. The England/Scotland border is fairly sparsely populated along most of the length.

    If such a right exists, there’s going to be issues.
    they go between both currently for specific services where needed
  • BarneyBarney Posts: 20
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    It really does sound absurd.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/status/1583693704917049345
    Stand back: the leader of a G7 country will be elected by an online poll of <80,000 people. Truly bizarre - and a major moment for ‘digital democracy’.</i>

    How is being elected by 356 people an improvement on 80,000.
    Because those 356 people were elected by the rest of the population to do exactly that?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    It really does sound absurd.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/status/1583693704917049345
    Stand back: the leader of a G7 country will be elected by an online poll of <80,000 people. Truly bizarre - and a major moment for ‘digital democracy’.</i>

    How is being elected by 356 people an improvement on 80,000.
    Because PM is a position that exclusively requires the confidence of MPs, therefore they must select.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Much better Scottish Labour numbers in today’s YouGov:

    SNP 41%
    SLab 35%
    SCon 9%
    SLD 8%
    Grn 4%
    Ref 2%
    oth 1%

    Sturgeon is really blowing it , pissed off women , independence supporters etc, time she was in the bin
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    edited October 2022

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Thank god. A moderate middle ground on these issues is within our grasp if the Tories choose well and Starmer holds his position.
    Starmer’s comments at the Prick News awards raises concerns that he’d make NHS England’s proposed approach illegal.

    And of course NHS Scotland continues to follow the Mermaid model.
    One imagines as the approach becomes embedded it's a fight that Starmer won't bother having and will just leave the status quo in place. It seems like a loser for Labour to reopen any of this stuff as it just repels voters and if the Tories look half sensible again next year these issues could shift votes.
    Stamer is trying to repeat the Blair playbook, lots of nods towards lots of causes to try and build as big a collation of anti-Tory voters as possible. Hence trying to claim Brexit is a done deal, then some murmuring about PR, etc.
    I don't get any sense of what Starmer actually believes. He has the air of a technocrat. But that doesn't inspire passion or enthusiasm.

    Starmerism doesn't exist. I don't think it is ever going to exist.

    He has dumped a significant number of his
    leadership election pledges.

    In that he is very much a typical politician.

    But as the likely PM after the GE whenever that comes, I would like some inkling as to a personal philosophy.

    I just do not believe he has one. Not that I could ever vote Labour. But I would still like a sense of something behind the eyes.
    As Truss has just discovered there are massive constraints on leaders over beliefs, policies and actions. The two biggest are these: The current state of the Overton window; and the current state of fiscal and monetary reality. The third biggest is what the electorate will stand for.

    Discounting bits of retail politics, the essentials of expenditure to meet all these three and their expectations are about £1tn, or nearly 50% of GDP. This cannot be significantly cut and it is meaningless to say it can, but there is no limit to how much it could be increased given demand (pensions, NHS, social care, wages, defence, energy, schools etc).

    The room for discretionary tinkering is minute. The great risk is that there is no practical option that the electorate will stomach.

    For practical purposes the aims of any current leader wanting to be in government will be identical. The rest is noise, and the difference will be about competence.

  • _Andy__Andy_ Posts: 12
    What happened to the no to online voting due to fear of bad actors?
    Especially with Boris' back in the picture.
    What's the risk of mass hacking of OAPs email accounts? LOL
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    darkage said:

    I get the feeling that this time around, Johnson really is crashing and won't get the MP's. The Lord Frost intervention is very significant.
    If this is correct, the question is whether Braverman/Badenoch or someone else on the 'right' decide to try their luck. In which case their odds (which are currently insanely long) will rapidly shorten.

    If Boris isn't getting the numbers, they aren't getting the numbers.

    There are only 3 players in this contest. One of those is nowhere near (without a huge lending of votes; another is scrabbling to meet the thresh-hold that was set high to keep him out the running.

    Rishi, for once in his life, is actually head and shoulders above the others.

    Until the members get a say. They do seem to be the most ornery bunch of grumpy bastards. They seem intent on going for the Thelma and Louise ending.....
    So sensible Tories are working hard to make sure the members don’t get a say. Good luck to them!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    edited October 2022
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Be interesting if Imelda allows them in Scotland NHS.
    Will be interesting as so far the Holyrood Committee on GRA reform has barely listened to any contrary evidence. Like Mordaunt she’s fallen for the vacuous. TWAW woo.
    Does a person who lives in England have any ability to seek treatment in Scotland? I know there’s a lot of cross-pollination between England and Wales (using GPs in the other country because it’s geographically logical) but that’s a very different border for the most part. The England/Scotland border is fairly sparsely populated along most of the length.

    If such a right exists, there’s going to be issues.
    If they start treatment in Scotland then expect it to be continued in England (where it’s against guidelines) there likely will be issues.

    There’s going to be issues with Scotlands GRA reform - is such recognition going to be recognised in the rest of the U.K.?
    In principle, no different from any other drug or treatment. The differtent approval systems mean that there are some cases where the one treatmenty can be had in one country but not the other, and vice versa (with a subvariant, presuimably, of whether it can be had if you pay). You want one of those treatments, you move.
    There are going to be a number of substantial claims for children damaged by this process already. Does Scotland really want more? The NHS English guidelines seem eminently sensible to me.
    Much of this [edit] NHS England proposal seems from the summary to be to do with under age children and the decision making problem, which is distinct from anything else to do with gender (albeit puberty is the issye here). And GRA reform is not the same thing as NHS policy, or what is clinically decided to be acceptable treatment in the Scottish equivalent of NICE (I forget the name momentarily). The previous posters seem to be lumping these three processes together, though obviously they are connected. And it seems to me that doctors will not do it if they don't have clinical approval and therefore medical insurance.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Be interesting if Imelda allows them in Scotland NHS.
    Will be interesting as so far the Holyrood Committee on GRA reform has barely listened to any contrary evidence. Like Mordaunt she’s fallen for the vacuous. TWAW woo.
    Does a person who lives in England have any ability to seek treatment in Scotland? I know there’s a lot of cross-pollination between England and Wales (using GPs in the other country because it’s geographically logical) but that’s a very different border for the most part. The England/Scotland border is fairly sparsely populated along most of the length.

    If such a right exists, there’s going to be issues.
    If they start treatment in Scotland then expect it to be continued in England (where it’s against guidelines) there likely will be issues.

    There’s going to be issues with Scotlands GRA reform - is such recognition going to be recognised in the rest of the U.K.?
    In principle, no different from any other drug or treatment. The differtent approval systems mean that there are some cases where the one treatmenty can be had in one country but not the other, and vice versa (with a subvariant, presuimably, of whether it can be had if you pay). You want one of those treatments, you move.
    There are going to be a number of substantial claims for children damaged by this process already. Does Scotland really want more? The NHS English guidelines seem eminently sensible to me.
    It’s a medical scandal for the ages. A lot of people who thought they were on “the right side of history” are going to be seriously exposed. Ms Sturgeon among them.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Baldy Ben puts the entire UK C-130J fleet on Facebook Marketplace.

    https://www.airforce-technology.com/homepage/uk-c-130js-listed-for-sale-by-mod/

    Getting a head start on the defence cuts.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the gap between the amount of people who think Brexit was "wrong", in hindsight, and the amount who think it was "right" just keeps getting bigger and bigger

    https://twitter.com/simonjhix/status/1582292972221390850?s=46&t=7FGxXGIQZTvH8YW0p5eX4w

    Keir Starmer finds himself on the wrong side.
    Again.

    Thinking Brexit was a mistake and wanting to spend huge amounts of time and energy on negotiating the UK’s re-entry are two very different things. My guess is that most people are far keener on a much better relationship with the EU than they are about rejoining, which is exactly where Starmer is. There is certainly space to go further, though, as whoever ends up leading the Tories cannot begin to accept the Brexit deal Johnson negotiated was awful.

    Over two-thirds of Scots want to rejoin the EU

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20681698.two-thirds-scots-want-rejoin-eu/

    And that was in August. The UK-wide data indicates that things have swung even more to the pro-Europe side since then.

    Starmer has made some appalling strategic choices, and being pro-Brexit is one of the biggest. An epic fail.
    So Scots think it’s a bad idea to leave long-established and successful unions that promote trade and security in search of mythical extra sovereignty, but they were pushed into it by a bunch of corrupt xenophobes?🤔
    Were not pushed , just totally ignored and dragged out by those Jingoist halfwits in Westminster. Sooner we get out of this banana republic the better.
    If I was the SNP, I reckon I’d just get on with detailed design work and think about an all party constitutional convention. Basically act like it’s inevitable - which it probably is.
    No it isn't, especially under a likely Labour government shortly offering devomax
    That th esame one offered in 2014 then
    Scotland Act 2016 partly delivered it but in 2014 of course there was a Tory led UK government
    Delivered it my ARSE, those Tory fcukwits knifed Scotland big time, hence why the losers are on 3% and hated throughout teh country.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405

    Glue idiots! Extinction Rebellion activists infiltrate Paris Motor Show to glue themselves to Ferrari supercars

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11343053/Extinction-Rebellion-activists-infiltrate-Paris-Motor-glue-Ferrari-supercars.html

    Put a screen around them and just leave them there for a few days in their own piss and shit.

    Only after the French police give them lots of fluids to drink and food to eat.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    It really does sound absurd.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/status/1583693704917049345
    Stand back: the leader of a G7 country will be elected by an online poll of <80,000 people. Truly bizarre - and a major moment for ‘digital democracy’.</i>

    How is being elected by 356 people an improvement on 80,000.
    Because the 356 won their mandate in a General Election of the whole country?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Hu Jintao reminded me of how Biden is most of the time....the difference is old Winnie the Pooh is in absolute control.

    BIDEN: "It's my intention to run again."

    Q: "Dr. Biden is for it?"

    BIDEN: *silence*

    Q: "Mr. President?"

    BIDEN: "Dr. Biden thinks that uh, my wife thinks that uh, that I uh, that, that we're, that we're doing something very important."

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1583601424968994816?s=20&t=C7g62gjPavqcntDt4kBGMA
    You mock Biden relentlessly, yet next week we will have to contend with more Peppa Pig diplomacy. The world is laughing at us, not Biden.
    Because he does not want to admit to the carcrash at home
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    No, they want it sorted Monday. Every one of the grandees who has spoken about the election has been careful to make it clear that the members stage is not nailed on. Pile in on Sunak while there’s still a reasonable return.
  • malcolmg said:

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Hu Jintao reminded me of how Biden is most of the time....the difference is old Winnie the Pooh is in absolute control.

    BIDEN: "It's my intention to run again."

    Q: "Dr. Biden is for it?"

    BIDEN: *silence*

    Q: "Mr. President?"

    BIDEN: "Dr. Biden thinks that uh, my wife thinks that uh, that I uh, that, that we're, that we're doing something very important."

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1583601424968994816?s=20&t=C7g62gjPavqcntDt4kBGMA
    You mock Biden relentlessly, yet next week we will have to contend with more Peppa Pig diplomacy. The world is laughing at us, not Biden.
    Because he does not want to admit to the carcrash at home
    Other than I have said exactly this....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.

    Johnson drifting out towards 5 this lunchtime.
    Yep. Bubble popping now, I think. Double digits soon.
    Maybe he seemed a more attractive proposition when he was over the water, but now he’s back in the country, MPs are remembering what he’s like!
    Ha, yes. I think it's been largely a hype operation though. Got him back in the news so I suppose he'll be happy enough. The thing I want to see now is the privileges committee doing a proper job and finding him guilty of lying to parliament and hence goodbye. Ok, there'll no doubt be speeches and columns and books but I won't have to partake of any of them. Happy days.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    MaxPB said:

    biggles said:

    Meanwhile, under the radar:

    The NHS Interim Service Specification proposal is seismic:

    -Puberty blockers only prescribed for research
    -Safeguarding of children obtaining unregulated hormones
    -Limit on social transition
    -Acknowledgement that most cases of dysphoria do not persist
    -Focus on mental health


    https://twitter.com/JamesEsses/status/1583747787807948800

    Thank god. A moderate middle ground on these issues is within our grasp if the Tories choose well and Starmer holds his position.
    Starmer’s comments at the Prick News awards raises concerns that he’d make NHS England’s proposed approach illegal.

    And of course NHS Scotland continues to follow the Mermaid model.
    One imagines as the approach becomes embedded it's a fight that Starmer won't bother having and will just leave the status quo in place. It seems like a loser for Labour to reopen any of this stuff as it just repels voters and if the Tories look half sensible again next year these issues could shift votes.
    Stamer is trying to repeat the Blair playbook, lots of nods towards lots of causes to try and build as big a collation of anti-Tory voters as possible. Hence trying to claim Brexit is a done deal, then some murmuring about PR, etc.
    I don't get any sense of what Starmer actually believes. He has the air of a technocrat. But that doesn't inspire passion or enthusiasm.

    Starmerism doesn't exist. I don't think it is ever going to exist.

    He has dumped a significant number of his
    leadership election pledges.

    In that he is very much a typical politician.

    But as the likely PM after the GE whenever that comes, I would like some inkling as to a personal philosophy.

    I just do not believe he has one. Not that I could ever vote Labour. But I would still like a sense of something behind the eyes.
    What is this nonsense? Starmer is a real person, like any of us. He has beliefs. He’s a social democrat, to the left of a Blair, to the right of a Corbyn. What is difficult to understand about this? Where does this dehumanising suggestion that he is lacking “something behind the eyes” come from?

    sits on the fence too often
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited October 2022
    Keystone said:

    FF43 said:

    James_M said:

    Morning all.

    I think this is my first post since the Leeds Leadership hustings. At that time I said the Conservative Party needed to be pragmatic, empathetic and forward looking. I was sceptical it was in evidence with Liz Truss and as such I vote for Rishi Sunak. Unsurprisingly I think he is the most appropriate and strongest choice for the party now.

    In terms of the EU, I campaigned and voted Leave in the referendum. I had long hoped sufficient reform from within the EU towards a more flexible model of concentric circles of membership would emerge quicker than it was and when Cameron failed to get anything meaningful in his negotiation I made the decision that reforming our relationship from outside offered an alternate route, even if it would be structurally more radical.

    Overall I still think leaving will prove to be the pathway to that more mature, mutually beneficial relationship with the EU arrives. Nevertheless I would be lying if I didn't acknowledge I had not considered the awful way all sides - UK and EU actors - behaved post-referendum in failing to work through the next steps more cautiously, compromise and not go zero sum. Here the Conservative Party did not have its finest hour to say the least and today there is still too much ideological unwillingness to see nuance and compromise.

    For me the EU (at the bureaucratic level at least) sees itself as a state being built. This means that there is not always a willingness to see that some members won't want ever closer union. Perhaps this is no surprise: bureaucracies often like to justify their roles through more and more activity and as with membership of any state, there isn't really a half in/ half out position - you are either part of the state or you are not. On the flip side, if the hard Brexiteers do not recognise that their zero sum approach will risk alienating those who want good UK-EU relations, then they will find the country will be more likely to return to the EU (potentially without all the opt-outs) out of frustration and exhaustion. Not compromising and thinking you are always right is tiring. If the public feel the status quo is too conflictual, the hard Brexiteers should not be surprised the public look elsewhere and that alternative offering may well be rejoin, as the bespoke relationship hasn't been sold and explained well enough.

    And that bespoke relationship? Ultimately a relationship, more associate in status, economically-based, but without the free movement of people as currently formed is one that could, over many years be forged. It would, I think make a sufficient number of actors on all sides sufficiently content and allow us all to focus on big structural things such as inter-generational fairness, the future of work, climate change.

    I think this is the ultimate direction of travel. However the closer relationship will be a subordinate one for the UK, less comfortable than participating in decisions that affect you.

    The EU and UK actors behaved in the way I expected them to. There is a reasonable case to be made for Brexit around accepting various losses of freedom, prosperity, influence and coherence as a nation as a price worth paying, so we can be masters of our own ship. Unfortunately no-one made that reasonable case, presumably because the referendum would be lost. So this Brexit, rather than a hypothetical other Brexit, went ahead on seriously false premises. Sooner or later we will have to work through them.
    The problem is that the Brexit campaign elided divergent long term policy objectives.

    Farage and Banks were not fishing in the same waters as Cummings and Bojo.

    We are now seeing the logical consequence of these contradictions playing out in the Conservative party.

    Being sympathetic to these challenges, it has hindered the very necessary process of reconciling the 50% of the population who did not want Brexit.

    Your (very reasonable) proposal should have been made in 2017, of course.
    "Farage and Banks were not fishing in the same waters as Cummings and Bojo."

    In that one sentence you have encapsulated the reason why Brexit has failed. the narrow 52% vote to leave was split between 2 contradictory visions of Brexit. There was never anything close to majority support for one type of Brexit. By the time that reality dawned we were stuck with it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    It really does sound absurd.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JamieJBartlett/status/1583693704917049345
    Stand back: the leader of a G7 country will be elected by an online poll of <80,000 people. Truly bizarre - and a major moment for ‘digital democracy’.</i>

    How is being elected by 356 people an improvement on 80,000.
    The 356 are at least elected to represent us and are accountable, if under a flawed voting system
  • BarneyBarney Posts: 20

    Barnesian said:

    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    Mordaunt withdraws before a vote, the deal was done in the week
    That would be dangerous. Some of her supporters might go for Boris and tip him over 100.

    Unless you mean she made a deal with Boris? Unlikely surely?
    No i mean after nominations close. There will be no Sunak Mordaunt run off. Its Sunak Bozo or Coronation
    But if he hasn’t got 100 nominations when nominations close he’s out - whether or not Mordaunt subsequently withdraws. Her supporters can’t wind back the clock and nominate him retrospectively.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Based on the distribution of votes to date, I now expect:

    Sunak, 149 nominations
    Boris, 114 nominations
    Mordaunt, 34 nominations

    60 we will not find out.

    Johnson drifting out towards 5 this lunchtime.
    Yep. Bubble popping now, I think. Double digits soon.
    Maybe he seemed a more attractive proposition when he was over the water, but now he’s back in the country, MPs are remembering what he’s like!
    Ha, yes. I think it's been largely a hype operation though. Got him back in the news so I suppose he'll be happy enough. The thing I want to see now is the privileges committee doing a proper job and finding him guilty of lying to parliament and hence goodbye. Ok, there'll no doubt be speeches and columns and books but I won't have to partake of any of them. Happy days.
    It also sets up the narrative for much later down the road should Boris decide to try and return from his wilderness years (like in his mind Churchill).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    Alistair said:

    Have taken profit on the BoJo to get 100 noms market

    So it was you! I was just composing a message that Boris was odds-against, and I looked up again and he wasn't.
    That "will he get to 100?" was (is) an interesting market to track against the main one.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    MaxPB said:

    MikeL said:

    Guido's spreadsheet named supporters since overnight:

    Rishi +17
    Boris +3

    Boris has also lost one unnamed Party Officer.

    Boris has definitely stalled this morning. I don't think he gets to 100.
    Agree, I think he misses out.

    Rishi still good value.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    kinabalu said:

    Alistair said:

    Have taken profit on the BoJo to get 100 noms market

    So it was you! I was just composing a message that Boris was odds-against, and I looked up again and he wasn't.
    That "will he get to 100?" was (is) an interesting market to track against the main one.
    Your posts on this subject have been some of the most stable and professional betting tips I've seen yet on here.

    Bravo.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    BBC - Sunak announcement of candidature soon
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    Harry Taylor
    @HarryTaylr
    Sky News reporter Mark Stone, who is on the flight with Boris Johnson back from the Dominican Republic to Gatwick, said that Johnson was booed by passengers as he boarded.

    This is classic twitter nonsense...headline tweet says something that people will take as whole plane booed him. Actual quote from Mark Stone, a couple of people did, most were bemused to see him there.

    Its also done in the disingenuous sly way that they write the first part (in attempt to get shared, with link to the actual quote 2 tweets down, that nobody will read).
    and if a couple of people cheered him the Mail and Telegraph would be telling us that he got a standing ovation and the whole plane was chanting "We want Boris".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Barney said:

    Barnesian said:

    TimS said:

    Barnesian said:

    ..

    Conversely if Boris looks like struggling to hit 100, I think a lot of anyone-but-Rishi MPs might throw their weight behind Mordaunt at the last minute to ensure a runoff.

    Mordaunt might well then win with the members. So not completely over for her yet.
    Mordaunt withdraws before a vote, the deal was done in the week
    That would be dangerous. Some of her supporters might go for Boris and tip him over 100.

    Unless you mean she made a deal with Boris? Unlikely surely?
    No i mean after nominations close. There will be no Sunak Mordaunt run off. Its Sunak Bozo or Coronation
    But if he hasn’t got 100 nominations when nominations close he’s out - whether or not Mordaunt subsequently withdraws. Her supporters can’t wind back the clock and nominate him retrospectively.
    Yes i know, and if Mordaunt has just over 100 she withdraws after nominations close
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Taz said:

    Glue idiots! Extinction Rebellion activists infiltrate Paris Motor Show to glue themselves to Ferrari supercars

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11343053/Extinction-Rebellion-activists-infiltrate-Paris-Motor-glue-Ferrari-supercars.html

    Put a screen around them and just leave them there for a few days in their own piss and shit.

    Only after the French police give them lots of fluids to drink and food to eat.
    Laced with laxatives...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    Boris and Trump being in charge again is quite a thought.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    biggles said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Meanwhile, the gap between the amount of people who think Brexit was "wrong", in hindsight, and the amount who think it was "right" just keeps getting bigger and bigger

    https://twitter.com/simonjhix/status/1582292972221390850?s=46&t=7FGxXGIQZTvH8YW0p5eX4w

    Keir Starmer finds himself on the wrong side.
    Again.

    Thinking Brexit was a mistake and wanting to spend huge amounts of time and energy on negotiating the UK’s re-entry are two very different things. My guess is that most people are far keener on a much better relationship with the EU than they are about rejoining, which is exactly where Starmer is. There is certainly space to go further, though, as whoever ends up leading the Tories cannot begin to accept the Brexit deal Johnson negotiated was awful.

    Over two-thirds of Scots want to rejoin the EU

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/20681698.two-thirds-scots-want-rejoin-eu/

    And that was in August. The UK-wide data indicates that things have swung even more to the pro-Europe side since then.

    Starmer has made some appalling strategic choices, and being pro-Brexit is one of the biggest. An epic fail.
    So Scots think it’s a bad idea to leave long-established and successful unions that promote trade and security in search of mythical extra sovereignty, but they were pushed into it by a bunch of corrupt xenophobes?🤔
    Were not pushed , just totally ignored and dragged out by those Jingoist halfwits in Westminster. Sooner we get out of this banana republic the better.
    If I was the SNP, I reckon I’d just get on with detailed design work and think about an all party constitutional convention. Basically act like it’s inevitable - which it probably is.
    No it isn't, especially under a likely Labour government shortly offering devomax
    That th esame one offered in 2014 then
    Scotland Act 2016 partly delivered it but in 2014 of course there was a Tory led UK government
    Now that is the most outrageous fib* on PB all day, that the 2016 act [edit: typo in date corrected] provided devomax.

    *Even when someone is only quoting someone else.
    Typical lying Tory Toerag, shocking.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,329

    malcolmg said:

    Hu Jintao dragged out of the CCP summit on live TV. Xi taking back full control

    Hu Jintao reminded me of how Biden is most of the time....the difference is old Winnie the Pooh is in absolute control.

    BIDEN: "It's my intention to run again."

    Q: "Dr. Biden is for it?"

    BIDEN: *silence*

    Q: "Mr. President?"

    BIDEN: "Dr. Biden thinks that uh, my wife thinks that uh, that I uh, that, that we're, that we're doing something very important."

    https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1583601424968994816?s=20&t=C7g62gjPavqcntDt4kBGMA
    You mock Biden relentlessly, yet next week we will have to contend with more Peppa Pig diplomacy. The world is laughing at us, not Biden.
    Because he does not want to admit to the carcrash at home
    Other than I have said exactly this....
    They are all afraid to admit to the disaster their heroes have inflicted on us
This discussion has been closed.