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An embarrassment of riches …. or maybe just an embarrassment. – politicalbetting.com

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  • Are a minimum of 100 MPs and membership that stupid? You’d be looking at an immediate Tory split and increased calls for a general election

    Yes. Yes they are.
    Well then Boris is serious value. Still a bit looking to lay 4.3ish. I’ll sleep on it.
    Too late. Sevens now.
    Why? I was talking about backing him. He’s longer now. I might back him at that price.
    Did you? He's back in to fives again now!

    The betting is a bit weird. I think everybody is guessing. Sunak has been solid though, and frankly he does look the solid punt.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,869
    edited October 2022
    deleted
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scouse mouse out at Villa

    Leeds fans booed at half time, chanted against their manager at the end.

    Good Leicester performance, defended set pieces well, Sideshow Bob as a centre-back is a new fans favourite. Leeds had a good passing game, and good movement off the ball but poor defending. Strange substitutions lost all shape.

    Leicester needs to follow up with an away win at Wolves. Only one home game before the World Cup, and that is Man City, so unlikely to be a clean sheet.
    Leeds were awful
    I was at the game. Certainly their heads dropped after they conceeded the second, though they did manage about 20 min of pressure second half. They could well be sacked into a relegation battle again.

    Leicester are looking much more cohesive in recent games. A long way to go, but I think we will end up mid table.
    The second was majestic tbf
  • Daiky mail front page Boris v Rishi fight for the soul of the tories

    https://twitter.com/channel_tsc/status/1583212304719495170?s=20&t=IDzmKDJBxECrV6y2ZOrj1A
  • Driver said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    Surely the party constitution has been quoted enough times? The 1922 Committee has to present a choice of candidates to the membership. The 1922 Committee also doesn't have the power to change the party constitution, and neither does the party Board. Trying to evade those rules would have precipitated a legal challenge.
    Only has to present a choice IF there is more than one. Which in this case means getting 100 MP nominators for more than one hopeful. If only one make threshold, they win automatically.

    Which is likely. But NOT a given.

    Conservative Party Constitution - SCHEDULE 2: RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER

    3. Upon the initiation of an election for the Leader, it shall be the duty of the 1922 Committee to present to the Party, as soon as reasonably practicable, a choice of candidates for election as Leader. The rules for deciding the procedure by which the 1922 Committee selects candidates for submission for election shall be determined by the Executive Committee of the 1922 Committee after consultation of the Board.

    4 If there is only one candidate at the time laid down for the close of nominations, that candidate shall be declared Leader of the Party.

    https://public.conservatives.com/organisation-department/202101/Conservative Party Constitution as amended January 2021.pdf
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,869

    Truss's failure might lead the Tories to embrace realignment more wholeheartedly:

    @danny__kruger
    Spot on from @MelanieLatest (citing @GoodwinMJ research): 'The party now has to make a choice. Does it want to restore the UK as an independent national project that upholds its historic culture, traditions and institutions? Or does it want to finally break that culture apart on the rocks of social or economic individualism and anti-west ideological dogma?'

    This is plain speaking and the language will alarm moderate Conservatives. But this is a critical moment when the nettle must be grasped:

    Whatever Govt emerges from this crisis needs to rebuild the 2019 coalition of voters. This means Brexit, borders, manufacturing, family, place, defence, tradition, solidarity... not just tax cuts and technocracy.

    We can do that in a way which brings the moderates along : people with an interest in localism, public service reform, help for enterprise, environmental action - all this is compatible with the 2019 alignment. Conservatives unite!


    https://twitter.com/danny__kruger/status/1583049318445248513

    What a load of tripe!
  • vinovino Posts: 169

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
  • Got on Boris at 5.1 - not much liquidity. Price is very volatile.

    Decent bet at that price, but personally I would be quick to trade out of such a volatile market.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    An online ballot, with a few days’ notice and little time to test security and integrity, by a Conservative Party membership not subject to any identity check, not all of whom are techie whizz-kids, and whose last choice was Liz Truss. What could possibly go wrong?

    https://twitter.com/georgeperetzkc/status/1583223049557458944
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,825
    The key thing is whether any of the Boris backers are people you wouldn't expect.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Are a minimum of 100 MPs and membership that stupid? You’d be looking at an immediate Tory split and increased calls for a general election

    Yes. Yes they are.
    Well then Boris is serious value. Still a bit looking to lay 4.3ish. I’ll sleep on it.
    Too late. Sevens now.
    Why? I was talking about backing him. He’s longer now. I might back him at that price.
    Did you? He's back in to fives again now!

    The betting is a bit weird. I think everybody is guessing. Sunak has been solid though, and


    frankly he does look the solid punt.

    Yes, backed at 5.1, which is value - it’s essentially a bet on 100 Tory MPs being certifiably insane, which I make an even money shot.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited October 2022
    I seriously doubt Johnson will have the majority backing of MPs even if he makes the 100 to go forward. The majority who don't want him will not just be MPs who prefer someone else they will largely be MPs that really can't stand the man.

    So if and when the membership go on to ignore their MPs and choose him as PM regardless his government will be inherently unstable from the off. Within months we will be right back where we were with Truss. Then off we go again
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,664
    Is Coffey the shortest ever Deputy Dog?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Andy_JS said:

    Did any PBers win money on a 2022 Truss exit date?

    Yeo. Although lumped on over recent days at low odds.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,780
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    ping said:

    Boris lengthening

    4.5

    Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
    It would be less than Truss left and would likely save some MPs seats as would Sunak
    I wasn't just talking about the election. Boris as PM would carry on with his lies and corruption. It was never ending so why would it end now. He would be emboldened. If he got in it would start all over again, starting with the privileges committee outcome.
    If you had read what I said earlier Boris would only become PM if most Tory MPs as well as members backed him, if not there would be a snap general election and he would only return as party leader and not PM unless he won that election
    ?????? What are you talking about 'If I read your earlier post'? You were responding to a post of mine where I was having a bit of fun about Boris getting appointed PM, nothing about what you posted earlier. This bit of fun has nothing to do with your earlier post'. It is completely unrelated. It was just a bit of fun, but with an underlying seriousness.

    Your comprehension of posts is appalling and just spoils the joy of the banter.
    Sorry very badly worded. I posted about 'if' and the response you (HYUFD) gave was about 'how'. I could post about if there was cheese on the moon. It doesn't mean I believe there is.
  • vinovino Posts: 169

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Got on Boris at 5.1 - not much liquidity. Price is very volatile.

    Decent bet at that price, but personally I would be quick to trade out of such a volatile market.
    Yeah, I’ll probably look to trade it out
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651

    An online ballot, with a few days’ notice and little time to test security and integrity, by a Conservative Party membership not subject to any identity check, not all of whom are techie whizz-kids, and whose last choice was Liz Truss. What could possibly go wrong?

    https://twitter.com/georgeperetzkc/status/1583223049557458944

    If only their last choice had been Liz Truss.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    That is precisely what Neville Chamberlain did. Which helped Churchill, his new Coalition government (including NC), the UK and their entire world at a key (to put it mildly) point in History.
  • Johnson back into 4 on betfair...fun and games
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    This from twitter

    Boris or Oblivion, they have two choices. It’s that simple for the

    @Conservatives

    party. Anyone that thinks otherwise will have an agenda or has their head in the sand. The party is FINISHED & neither Sunak or Mordaunt would change those polls.

    9:34 PM · Oct 20, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

    You seem slightly obsessed with ramping Boris. You are new here, I note…
    An obvious troll I would have thought and a pretty poor one at that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,607
    edited October 2022
    IanB2 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Did any PBers win money on a 2022 Truss exit date?

    Yeo. Although lumped on over recent days at low odds.
    I got on at 16, topped up at 6, laid off to go green at 2, so sitting pretty on £150.

    Lost a bit on the mortgage payments though.
  • Seeing as the results are announced at halloween surely the Tory MP for Devizes, Danny Kruger, should be considered. His powers include his sidekick puppy causing 200 deer to stampede in Richmond Park. Just imagine what he could do with the full powers of government.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,780

    kjh said:

    Boris has drifted to 8s all of a sudden. He was at 4.5 only 10 minutes ago.

    Could be a betting manouvre by someone close to Boris to make him look like an underdog
    Why would they do that?
    Well, if they like losing money they might well do that, but most punters prefer it the other way round.
    Or of course potentially lose money to make your guy look hotter than he really is, but the suggestion was to do the reverse and make him look a loser. Odd
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,316
    edited October 2022

    Johnson back into 4 on betfair...fun and games

    Sunak has shortened slowly and steadily. The fun and games concerns the other two runners. The late great John McCririck would have referred to 'flip-flopping second favorites'.

    Great for traders. Wouldn't read too much into it as far as who the next PM will be.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    OllyT said:

    I seriously doubt Johnson will have the majority backing of MPs even if he makes the 100 to go forward. The majority who don't want him will not just be MPs who prefer someone else they will largely be MPs that really can't stand the man.

    So if and when the membership go on to ignore their MPs and choose him as PM regardless his government will be inherently unstable from the off. Within months we will be right back where we were with Truss. Then off we go again

    Does this mean Liz might be back in December? 😡
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    ping said:

    ping said:

    Boris zooming out on betfair

    There must be some news/rumour

    Mordaunt to drop out and endorse Rishi? In return for a guaranteed post she wants maybe.
    In that case, Penny’s odds should go out, too. It hasn’t. It’s come in a little - and Sunak’s, a fair chunk.

    It’s something else. A big punter thinks they know something.
    There are other Johnson scandals out there.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Are a minimum of 100 MPs and membership that stupid? You’d be looking at an immediate Tory split and increased calls for a general election

    Yes. Yes they are.
    Well then Boris is serious value. Still a bit looking to lay 4.3ish. I’ll sleep on it.
    Too late. Sevens now.
    Why? I was talking about backing him. He’s longer now. I might back him at that price.
    Did you? He's back in to fives again now!

    The betting is a bit weird. I think everybody is guessing. Sunak has been solid though, and frankly he does look the solid punt.
    Everyone is guessing - but some people, on both sides, are very certain about their guess...
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,034
    Lib Dems have won both by-elections in Beaconsfield tonight (I think this is a local council).
  • A realistic scenario to me is one candidate gets 120-130ish votes, maybe another two are stuck between 80-100.

    The winner is going to have no mandate and the supporters of the other two will be against them from day 1.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    Surely the party constitution has been quoted enough times? The 1922 Committee has to present a choice of candidates to the membership. The 1922 Committee also doesn't have the power to change the party constitution, and neither does the party Board. Trying to evade those rules would have precipitated a legal challenge.
    Only has to present a choice IF there is more than one. Which in this case means getting 100 MP nominators for more than one hopeful. If only one make threshold, they win automatically.

    Which is likely. But NOT a given.

    Conservative Party Constitution - SCHEDULE 2: RULES FOR THE ELECTION OF THE LEADER

    3. Upon the initiation of an election for the Leader, it shall be the duty of the 1922 Committee to present to the Party, as soon as reasonably practicable, a choice of candidates for election as Leader. The rules for deciding the procedure by which the 1922 Committee selects candidates for submission for election shall be determined by the Executive Committee of the 1922 Committee after consultation of the Board.

    4 If there is only one candidate at the time laid down for the close of nominations, that candidate shall be declared Leader of the Party.

    https://public.conservatives.com/organisation-department/202101/Conservative Party Constitution as amended January 2021.pdf
    Yes, I know, I linked to that earlier today. The candidate selection process has to be designed to produce a choice of candidates (requiring nomination from a majority of MPs wouldn't qualify) but as with 2016 that doesn't mean the member vote actually happens.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    I think in the end it will be Rishi.

    DYOR
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Driver said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.


    Not remotely a serious suggestion.
    Right, so you’ve conceded that you’re wrong, you just don’t think the alternative is “serious”.
  • kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Boris has drifted to 8s all of a sudden. He was at 4.5 only 10 minutes ago.

    Could be a betting manouvre by someone close to Boris to make him look like an underdog
    Why would they do that?
    Well, if they like losing money they might well do that, but most punters prefer it the other way round.
    Or of course potentially lose money to make your guy look hotter than he really is, but the suggestion was to do the reverse and make him look a loser. Odd
    My tongue was firmly in my cheek.

    Clement Freud pulled that stunt many, many years ago in an LD leadership contest. We saw it again in the Romney/Obama clash, and a lot of PB punters cleaned up as a result. It's been a while since we've seen a clear cut example, but this contest looks made for that kind of thing.

    This post is a sort of health warning.

    Wealth warning, even.
  • OllyT said:

    I seriously doubt Johnson will have the majority backing of MPs even if he makes the 100 to go forward. The majority who don't want him will not just be MPs who prefer someone else they will largely be MPs that really can't stand the man.

    So if and when the membership go on to ignore their MPs and choose him as PM regardless his government will be inherently unstable from the off. Within months we will be right back where we were with Truss. Then off we go again

    Boris is the only one reckless/strong/cynical enough to call an early GE and demand loyalty to his agenda for any MPs seeking re-election or they shall lose the whip.

    It may be the only way to unite the party, by cutting out a load of them and scaring the rest.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    That is precisely what Neville Chamberlain did. Which helped Churchill, his new Coalition government (including NC), the UK and their entire world at a key (to put it mildly) point in History.
    That’s right, it was done during a World War, and it could have been done in this instance.
  • vinovino Posts: 169

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
  • OllyT said:

    I seriously doubt Johnson will have the majority backing of MPs even if he makes the 100 to go forward. The majority who don't want him will not just be MPs who prefer someone else they will largely be MPs that really can't stand the man.

    So if and when the membership go on to ignore their MPs and choose him as PM regardless his government will be inherently unstable from the off. Within months we will be right back where we were with Truss. Then off we go again

    Does this mean Liz might be back in December? 😡
    Maybe she and Boris are going to rotate the position every few months until the GE is due.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,000

    Jacob Rees-Mogg has come out for Boris.
    What an odious creep.

    Yes. Rees Mogg, too.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,703
    edited October 2022
    Everyone saying Boris needs 100 MPs but he may well need more than that - because he has to finish in the top 2 in the 1st round of voting.

    There are 357 Con MPs so something like the following is entirely plausible and would eliminate him.

    Sunak 130
    Mordaunt 117
    Johnson 110

    ie very similar to the final ballot last time. Changes:

    Sunak -7
    Mordaunt +12
    Truss/Johnson -3

    (2 abstentions last time)
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.


    Not remotely a serious suggestion.
    Right, so you’ve conceded that you’re wrong, you just don’t think the alternative is “serious”.
    Something that is so unserious that it's imaginary doesn't counteract my point of the reality of the situation.

    She can't resign as PM until there's a successor - this is why she hasn't resigned as PM today). Without a party leadership election, how is the successor chosen, especially given that the assumption is that the leader of the party which holds a majority has the confidence of the House?

    It's beyond preposterous.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    edited October 2022
    “Conservatives Abroad” do not need to be voters, nor UK citizens, but can vote in the forthcoming election.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963
    edited October 2022

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    That is precisely what Neville Chamberlain did. Which helped Churchill, his new Coalition government (including NC), the UK and their entire world at a key (to put it mildly) point in History.
    That’s right, it was done during a World War, and it could have been done in this instance.
    This is not during a world war!

    Also, that was in an era when party leaders "emerged" without anything so uncivilised as even a vote of the parliamentary party.
  • vinovino Posts: 169
    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
    You know I might have gone for a Lib Dem gain as well but my record is very very poor
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    edited October 2022
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    Not remotely a serious suggestion.
    Right, so you’ve conceded that you’re wrong, you just don’t think the alternative is “serious”.
    Something that is so unserious that it's imaginary doesn't counteract my point of the reality of the situation.

    She can't resign as PM until there's a successor - this is why she hasn't resigned as PM today). Without a party leadership election, how is the successor chosen, especially given that the assumption is that the leader of the party which holds a majority has the confidence of the House?

    It's beyond preposterous.
    So preposterous it was used to replace Chamberlain.

    The mechanism would be quite straightforward. Truss would announce her intention to resign the premiership and hand over to another Tory chosen by the MPs either by coronation or through voting.

    Said Tory becomes PM.
    Liz then resigns the leadership and the party can do what they want, it has no impact on the premiership.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,034
    Looks like a Lib Dem gain in Guildford.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
    The LDs only get it if the Tory vote collapses directly to them
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Driver said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    That is precisely what Neville Chamberlain did. Which helped Churchill, his new Coalition government (including NC), the UK and their entire world at a key (to put it mildly) point in History.
    That’s right, it was done during a World War, and it could have been done in this instance.
    This is not during a world war!

    Also, that was in an era when party leaders "emerged" without anything so uncivilised as even a vote of the parliamentary party.
    So what. The membership only got a day during Hague, which was hardly the dark ages.

    I doubt it was ever intended for such a circumstance as we’ve seen this week; it has certainly brought the party into disrepute.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    The Surrey meltdown goes on
    Tillingbourne (Guildford) council by-election result:

    LDEM: 46.5% (+16.3)
    CON: 21.4% (-15.2)
    RGV: 13.5% (+13.5)
    GRN: 12.3% (-20.8)
    LAB: 6.2% (+6.2)

    Votes cast: 1,367

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 689
    Sorry but the Ukrainian government needs to be told to butt out. Fighting a righteous war doesn’t give them the right to go interfering in other countries democratic processes
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,703
    Guido has 10 unnamed Whips backing Boris and none backing anyone else.

    How many Whips are there in total?

    He also has two 1922 Exec, two Party Board and one CCHQ Vice-Chair (all unnamed) backing Boris.

    Again how many of these roles are there in total?

    Seems extraordinary that Boris has 15/15 unnamed backers in official positions.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    An online ballot, with a few days’ notice and little time to test security and integrity, by a Conservative Party membership not subject to any identity check, not all of whom are techie whizz-kids, and whose last choice was Liz Truss. What could possibly go wrong?

    https://twitter.com/georgeperetzkc/status/1583223049557458944

    When the members vote by post they reliably pick the worst of the two available options, so this plan to let North Korean hackers make the decision can't possibly be worse, and could only be better.
  • vinovino Posts: 169

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
    The LDs only get it if the Tory vote collapses directly to them
    Exactly - a tory voter at this moment won't want to vote tory so goes for the Lib Dem option instead of Labour - voting when you reach a certain age is mandatory
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    edited October 2022
    Anthony Scaramucci has tweeted that Liz Truss lasted “4.1 Scaramuccis”.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,624
    I'm finding it weird that neither Sunak or Johnson have made any sort of public appearance. Too soon maybe?

    Like trying to bet on ghosts
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    Not remotely a serious suggestion.
    Right, so you’ve conceded that you’re wrong, you just don’t think the alternative is “serious”.
    Something that is so unserious that it's imaginary doesn't counteract my point of the reality of the situation.

    She can't resign as PM until there's a successor - this is why she hasn't resigned as PM today). Without a party leadership election, how is the successor chosen, especially given that the assumption is that the leader of the party which holds a majority has the confidence of the House?

    It's beyond preposterous.
    So preposterous it was used to replace Chamberlain.

    The mechanism would be quite straightforward. Truss would announce her intention to resign the premiership and hand over to another Tory chosen by the MPs either by coronation or through voting.

    Said Tory becomes PM.
    Liz then resigns the leadership and the party can do what they want, it has no impact on the premiership.
    At which point the new party leader becomes PM, because they have a majority in the Commons!
  • vinovino Posts: 169
    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
    The LDs only get it if the Tory vote collapses directly to them
    Exactly - a tory voter at this moment won't want to vote tory so goes for the Lib Dem option instead of Labour - voting when you reach a certain age is mandatory
    posted that before I saw the Tillingbourne (Guildford) council by-election result:
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    edited October 2022
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Driver said:

    The 1922 are utter morons for giving members any say.

    This is the third time I’ve posted on this.

    And if you keep posting it, I'll have to keep reminding you that they had no choice.
    Well, you’re simply wrong about it.
    No he is not. They are bound by the rules of the party - they don't make them. They can tinker at a low level with timetables and nomination requirements but that is all.
    He is wrong, because he assumes perhaps that the question in hand was the party leadership.

    Liz should have been told to resign as Prime Minister, but not as Party Leader.

    Not remotely a serious suggestion.
    Right, so you’ve conceded that you’re wrong, you just don’t think the alternative is “serious”.
    Something that is so unserious that it's imaginary doesn't counteract my point of the reality of the situation.

    She can't resign as PM until there's a successor - this is why she hasn't resigned as PM today). Without a party leadership election, how is the successor chosen, especially given that the assumption is that the leader of the party which holds a majority has the confidence of the House?

    It's beyond preposterous.
    So preposterous it was used to replace Chamberlain.

    The mechanism would be quite straightforward. Truss would announce her intention to resign the premiership and hand over to another Tory chosen by the MPs either by coronation or through voting.

    Said Tory becomes PM.
    Liz then resigns the leadership and the party can do what they want, it has no impact on the premiership.
    At which point the new party leader becomes PM, because they have a majority in the Commons!
    Nope, that’s not required.
    It’s merely a convention. In any case, they are hardly likely to unseat a sitting PM at that stage.
  • Anthony Scaramucci has tweeted that Liz Truss lasted “4.1 Scaramuccis”.

    So KK was approx 3 scars?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Off topic, does anyone think the host nation will get out of their group at the World Cup?

    11/2 in some places
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,034
    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
    The LDs only get it if the Tory vote collapses directly to them
    Exactly - a tory voter at this moment won't want to vote tory so goes for the Lib Dem option instead of Labour - voting when you reach a certain age is mandatory
    posted that before I saw the Tillingbourne (Guildford) council by-election result:
    The real story is that Green voters switched to the Lib Dems. Tactical voting in operation.
  • vinovino Posts: 169
    slade said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    vino said:

    slade said:

    slade said:

    Lab just hold on in St Helens from a Lib Dem surge.

    Con go from 518 to 74.
    And Labour go from 1547 to 656
    Not much change in Devauden either, the Labour poll surge continues to elude actual elections
    Just when I think the Tories are finished some of the local elections results seem to say "Are they?"
    I expect the Thorpe ward in Norwich to drop tonight
    To Labour I assume? - yes a good benchmark
    Yes, although the LDs have some presence too
    Yes - the experts who are very good have said 5 Labour gains,4 Tory holds and 3 Lib Dem gains
    The LDs only get it if the Tory vote collapses directly to them
    Exactly - a tory voter at this moment won't want to vote tory so goes for the Lib Dem option instead of Labour - voting when you reach a certain age is mandatory
    posted that before I saw the Tillingbourne (Guildford) council by-election result:
    The real story is that Green voters switched to the Lib Dems. Tactical voting in operation.
    Yes - didn't note that
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,565
    edited October 2022
    The Times reveals the identity one of the LDI providers with serious exposure:

    "Schroders lost £20bn in LDI division amid gilts market turmoil"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c58c5224-509d-11ed-b120-ca4f3ffbcdc5?shareToken=f549e19ac458711a817fe99cecb97e27

    Apparently not one of the big three though.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited October 2022
    Astonishing result from Porchester, a pretty safe LD ward

    Results for Portchester East By-election

    Conservative - 957
    Labour - 379
    Liberal Democrats - 932
    Fareham Independent Group - 275

    Harry Patrick Davis, Conservative, has been elected
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,703
    edited October 2022
    Guido spreadsheet:

    Johnson 50 (including 15 unnamed Party officials)
    Sunak 39
    Mordaunt 17 (including one unnamed Party official)
  • vinovino Posts: 169

    Astonishing result from Porchester, a pretty safe LD ward

    Results for Portchester East By-election

    Conservative - 957
    Labour - 379
    Liberal Democrats - 932
    Fareham Independent Group - 275

    Harry Patrick Davis, Conservative, has been elected

    Any reasons why?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,133
    Were you up for the Boris plunge to 3-1 ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    vino said:

    Astonishing result from Porchester, a pretty safe LD ward

    Results for Portchester East By-election

    Conservative - 957
    Labour - 379
    Liberal Democrats - 932
    Fareham Independent Group - 275

    Harry Patrick Davis, Conservative, has been elected

    Any reasons why?
    No, its been LD since 2002! Must be the Braverman effect as MP?!!!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,519
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨EXCLUSIVE

    Boris Johnson is privately urging Rishi Sunak to join forces with him in a remarkable olive branch to his foe

    Ally of Boris tells @Telegraph: “If the Tories are serious about winning in 2024 + want to stop a general election before then they need to revert to the…”

    “…guy with a mandate who is a seasoned campaigner. They need someone to take the fight to Labour. There’s no point going to a yellow box junction without knowing how you are going to get out of it. Rishi should make contact + work out how the two of them can get back together.”


    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1583212562380120071

    Well if Rishi accepts its all over..Boris is the next PM
    Or the other way around.
    The shameless can often outlast others by sheer stubborness.

    Clever tactics from Boris allies though - they've already come out of the blocks fast and established him as having momentum, it isn't obvious others would do better with the public (despite Boris's manifest unsuitability), and talk of him reaching out presents him as the guy to beat being generous, not a scrap between equals.

    Sunak doesn't have the force of will or talent to overcome Boris, and Mordaunt lacks the support.
    Not so clever if Boris stalls and Sunak overtakes him and goes out of sight.... Boris will look all fart and no follow through.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,273
    The Bozo cult in parliament seem to be inhabiting their own world .

    He’s still under investigation, and his track record is hardly going to avoid scandal over the next two years.

    All this talk of avoiding a general election . There’s more likely to be one if the party implodes if he gets into no 10 again .
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Sunak wants to cruise this contest and I am not sure he is interested in generating a sweat.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,565
    Portchester East (Fareham) council by-election result:

    CON: 37.6% (+3.0)
    LDEM: 36.6% (-14.2)
    LAB: 14.9% (+4.5)
    FIG: 10.8% (+10.8)

    Votes cast: 2,543

    Conservative GAIN from Liberal Democrat.
  • Eabhal said:

    I'm finding it weird that neither Sunak or Johnson have made any sort of public appearance. Too soon maybe?

    Like trying to bet on ghosts

    Several possible factors including

    > this is insider baseball for most part, give that electorate is 357 or thereabouts, with all kinds of expectations, some policy, some ideology,some professional, mostly personal, occasionally principle beyond ideological.

    > thus internal communication - including planted media - is likely more important than candidate's pubic speeches and pronouncements, at least until end game IF somebody is feeling desperate.

    > while there is scope for whipping up supporters including certainly party members to hard lobby their MPs, worth keeping in mind that one reason why Liz Truss had to face a long ladder but short rope, was the aggressive way Tory MPs were "lobbied" into the No Lobby for the Clusterfrack. Meaning applying TOO much enthusiasm could well backfire.

    That all said, give Boris Johnson's persona, experience and ego slight larger than the Goodyear Blimp, high likelihood he will begin to exhort the Bojo-ites in his accustomed style, and like his model #45.


    Esp. if he gets desperate. Or rather WHEN he gets desperate, because am I'm sure Johnson's got a definite ceiling. And also (with something less than moral certainty) that it's NOT as high as 100.
  • Stereodog said:

    Sorry but the Ukrainian government needs to be told to butt out. Fighting a righteous war doesn’t give them the right to go interfering in other countries democratic processes
    I don’t even get what the imagery is trying to suggest. It would seem stupidly puerile from some twitter random let alone an official government account.
  • vinovino Posts: 169

    vino said:

    Astonishing result from Porchester, a pretty safe LD ward

    Results for Portchester East By-election

    Conservative - 957
    Labour - 379
    Liberal Democrats - 932
    Fareham Independent Group - 275

    Harry Patrick Davis, Conservative, has been elected

    Any reasons why?
    No, its been LD since 2002! Must be the Braverman effect as MP?!!!
    It's this sort of result that makes me think - why? why? why? - if I knew I would be a millionaire
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Thorpe in Norwich is a Labour gain, Tory vote halved. The ward is part of Norwich North, Chloe Smiths seat
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,565

    Stereodog said:

    Sorry but the Ukrainian government needs to be told to butt out. Fighting a righteous war doesn’t give them the right to go interfering in other countries democratic processes
    I don’t even get what the imagery is trying to suggest. It would seem stupidly puerile from some twitter random let alone an official government account.
    Being in an existential fight, we can forgive them, no?

    (It's a clumsy reference to the Netflix show "Better Call Saul")
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,231
    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 57% (+8)
    CON: 22% (-6)
    LDM: 7% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    REF: 3% (+1)

    via @Omnisis, 20 Oct

    (Changes with 14 Oct)

    I had privately thought that 15% was unlikely. But at this rate…
  • vino said:

    vino said:

    Astonishing result from Porchester, a pretty safe LD ward

    Results for Portchester East By-election

    Conservative - 957
    Labour - 379
    Liberal Democrats - 932
    Fareham Independent Group - 275

    Harry Patrick Davis, Conservative, has been elected

    Any reasons why?
    No, its been LD since 2002! Must be the Braverman effect as MP?!!!
    It's this sort of result that makes me think - why? why? why? - if I knew I would be a millionaire
    Not a humongous margin. Was previous result also relatively close, the other way? Also impact of Lab & Inds? Could a Suella sympathy vote have prodded Tory activists & voters to boost turnout just enough? Enquiring minds want to know!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,651

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention:

    LAB: 57% (+8)
    CON: 22% (-6)
    LDM: 7% (-3)
    GRN: 4% (-1)
    REF: 3% (+1)

    via @Omnisis, 20 Oct

    (Changes with 14 Oct)

    I had privately thought that 15% was unlikely. But at this rate…
    Surely whoever takes over takes them up from the low twenties.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    vino said:

    vino said:

    Astonishing result from Porchester, a pretty safe LD ward

    Results for Portchester East By-election

    Conservative - 957
    Labour - 379
    Liberal Democrats - 932
    Fareham Independent Group - 275

    Harry Patrick Davis, Conservative, has been elected

    Any reasons why?
    No, its been LD since 2002! Must be the Braverman effect as MP?!!!
    It's this sort of result that makes me think - why? why? why? - if I knew I would be a millionaire
    Not a humongous margin. Was previous result also relatively close, the other way? Also impact of Lab & Inds? Could a Suella sympathy vote have prodded Tory activists & voters to boost turnout just enough? Enquiring minds want to know!
    LDs have held the ward consistently since the millenium, Tories were closish in 2021 and 2016 but very unexpected result given the national picture
  • carnforth said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sorry but the Ukrainian government needs to be told to butt out. Fighting a righteous war doesn’t give them the right to go interfering in other countries democratic processes
    I don’t even get what the imagery is trying to suggest. It would seem stupidly puerile from some twitter random let alone an official government account.
    Being in an existential fight, we can forgive them, no?

    (It's a clumsy reference to the Netflix show "Better Call Saul")
    Yeah, I got that.
    What is a mask of Boris being moved aside to reveal a sleazy, morally compromised lawyer supposed to mean?
  • BTW (also FYI) over morning coffee this AM, just after Liz Truss gave her resignation announcement, yours truly was reading about the 1963 Labour Leadership contest (PLP only) after death of Hugh Gaitskell in "The Making of the Prime Minister 1964" by Anthony Howard & Richard West.

    Oldie but goodie, has info & insights still relevant this millennium.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,231
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The 1922 should now do the following.

    Whoever gets 100 Tory MPs on Monday nominating them obviously goes forward to a leadership election. If only 1 candidate meets that threshold they obviously become Tory leader and PM.

    If not then rounds should be held amongst the candidates until 1 candidate gets over 50% of the parliamentary party supporting them, even if that requires a final round amongst the top 2.

    The membership should be given 2 votes then. The first should be to either confirm or reject the candidate chosen by MPs.

    If the membership confirm that choice that candidate automatically becomes PM as well as party leader.

    If the membership reject that choice then consideration is given to their second vote, a head to head between the top 2 candidates amongst MPs. Whoever wins that ballot amongst members then becomes Tory leader and leads the Tories into a snap general election, Truss remaining PM but not party leader while that general election takes place

    The membership have about as much legitimacy in choosing a Prime Minister as the National Union of Miners in the 1970s/1980s. Each is/was a pressure group for its own interests. Nothinbg more. Which was at least legitimate for a trade union, but is outrageous for a political party that pretends to have the interests of the UK at heart.

    You're morally worse than Arthur Scargill.
    Unless the membership back the Tory MPs choice they can't select the PM without a general election first under my plan
    But they shouldn't nbe selecting the PM at all. That is solely for MPs under the constitution which you pretend to defend.
    It IS solely for MPs if you had bothered to read my plan before going on a rant.

    I made clear if members did not confirm the choice over 50% of the governing parties MPs backed then there would be a snap general election and they would only be electing the party leader at that election, it would be for voters as a whole to decide if they then became PM or not
    You're involving party members, which is sufficient to abolish your claim.

    Edit: possible source of confusion - I am talking about the UK constitution. Not the party constitution or whatever jumped up set of third rate golf club rules you are trying to put in its place, like the subversive and seditious person that you are.
    Only to confirm the choice of Tory MPs and only if they confirm that choice does that candidate become PM. So the country's constitution stands ie the PM has to have the support of most MPs from the party with a majority in Parliament.

    If they reject that choice then as I said they get a second vote only to choose our party leader to lead us into a snap general
    election, the voters alone would then decide if that candidate became PM or not.
    Forget it. The moment you let the partty members into the decision, that's it, you're subverting UK democracy and ther constitution.
    It’s reasonable to let them have a role.

    Say 20 MPs required to nominate.

    Members then vote for a shortlist of 5 (using AV)

    MPs then chose 1 winner from that shortlist.

  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,565

    carnforth said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sorry but the Ukrainian government needs to be told to butt out. Fighting a righteous war doesn’t give them the right to go interfering in other countries democratic processes
    I don’t even get what the imagery is trying to suggest. It would seem stupidly puerile from some twitter random let alone an official government account.
    Being in an existential fight, we can forgive them, no?

    (It's a clumsy reference to the Netflix show "Better Call Saul")
    Yeah, I got that.
    What is a mask of Boris being moved aside to reveal a sleazy, morally compromised lawyer supposed to mean?
    Nothing. Just directly taken from the season 4 title card. No deep meaning, just a shit pun.


  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    The 1922 should now do the following.

    Whoever gets 100 Tory MPs on Monday nominating them obviously goes forward to a leadership election. If only 1 candidate meets that threshold they obviously become Tory leader and PM.

    If not then rounds should be held amongst the candidates until 1 candidate gets over 50% of the parliamentary party supporting them, even if that requires a final round amongst the top 2.

    The membership should be given 2 votes then. The first should be to either confirm or reject the candidate chosen by MPs.

    If the membership confirm that choice that candidate automatically becomes PM as well as party leader.

    If the membership reject that choice then consideration is given to their second vote, a head to head between the top 2 candidates amongst MPs. Whoever wins that ballot amongst members then becomes Tory leader and leads the Tories into a snap general election, Truss remaining PM but not party leader while that general election takes place

    The membership have about as much legitimacy in choosing a Prime Minister as the National Union of Miners in the 1970s/1980s. Each is/was a pressure group for its own interests. Nothinbg more. Which was at least legitimate for a trade union, but is outrageous for a political party that pretends to have the interests of the UK at heart.

    You're morally worse than Arthur Scargill.
    Unless the membership back the Tory MPs choice they can't select the PM without a general election first under my plan
    But they shouldn't nbe selecting the PM at all. That is solely for MPs under the constitution which you pretend to defend.
    It IS solely for MPs if you had bothered to read my plan before going on a rant.

    I made clear if members did not confirm the choice over 50% of the governing parties MPs backed then there would be a snap general election and they would only be electing the party leader at that election, it would be for voters as a whole to decide if they then became PM or not
    You're involving party members, which is sufficient to abolish your claim.

    Edit: possible source of confusion - I am talking about the UK constitution. Not the party constitution or whatever jumped up set of third rate golf club rules you are trying to put in its place, like the subversive and seditious person that you are.
    Only to confirm the choice of Tory MPs and only if they confirm that choice does that candidate become PM. So the country's constitution stands ie the PM has to have the support of most MPs from the party with a majority in Parliament.

    If they reject that choice then as I said they get a second vote only to choose our party leader to lead us into a snap general
    election, the voters alone would then decide if that candidate became PM or not.
    Forget it. The moment you let the partty members into the decision, that's it, you're subverting UK democracy and ther constitution.
    It’s reasonable to let them have a role.

    Say 20 MPs required to nominate.

    Members then vote for a shortlist of 5 (using AV)

    MPs then chose 1 winner from that shortlist.

    Why is it reasonable?
    It’s not. Same applies to Labour as well.
    It’s a subversion of the parliamentary system.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,231
    Andy_JS said:

    Will Truss resign as an MP? Kwarteng as well.

    May be she could claim the Earldom that she is technically entitled to (but no one has since Stockton)… the Countess of Truss (no sniggering at the northern accent)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    Stereodog said:

    Sorry but the Ukrainian government needs to be told to butt out. Fighting a righteous war doesn’t give them the right to go interfering in other countries democratic processes
    I don’t even get what the imagery is trying to suggest. It would seem stupidly puerile from some twitter random let alone an official government account.
    Being in an existential fight, we can forgive them, no?

    (It's a clumsy reference to the Netflix show "Better Call Saul")
    Yeah, I got that.
    What is a mask of Boris being moved aside to reveal a sleazy, morally compromised lawyer supposed to mean?
    Nothing. Just directly taken from the season 4 title card. No deep meaning, just a shit pun.


    They would have been better advised to use Breaking Bad.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,133
    Boris /Sunak /Mordaunt
    Liz Truss/ 7 /0 /0
    Nadhim Zahawi/ 0 /0 /0
    Penny Mordaunt/ 3 /0 /10
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /1 /0
    Suella Braverman/ 4 /1 /0
    Rishi Sunak/ 0 18 /0
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /0 /0
    Tom Tugendhat/ 0 /2 /0
    Jeremy Hunt/ 1 /0 /0
    Noone/ 30 /10 /4
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    I cannot understand why anyone would run an online ballot with three days of preparation and expect it to go well and unhacked.

    https://twitter.com/rhonddabryant/status/1583225583357415424?s=46&t=ssP1xq7z4QDeOm17Z2QWWQ
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,133
    edited October 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    Boris /Sunak /Mordaunt
    Liz Truss/ 7 /0 /0
    Nadhim Zahawi/ 0 /0 /0
    Penny Mordaunt/ 3 /0 /10
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /1 /0
    Suella Braverman/ 4 /1 /0
    Rishi Sunak/ 0 /18 /0
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /0 /0
    Tom Tugendhat/ 0 /2 /0
    Jeremy Hunt/ 1 /0 /0
    Noone/ 30 /10 /4

    Switch matrix of support first round September contest -> October contest
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297

    Andy_JS said:

    Will Truss resign as an MP? Kwarteng as well.

    May be she could claim the Earldom that she is technically entitled to (but no one has since Stockton)… the Countess of Truss (no sniggering at the northern accent)
    The Marquise of O more like.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    I cannot understand why anyone would run an online ballot with three days of preparation and expect it to go well and unhacked.

    https://twitter.com/rhonddabryant/status/1583225583357415424?s=46&t=ssP1xq7z4QDeOm17Z2QWWQ

    TBF they already planned for one for last time so it's not like building the system from scratch.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Boris /Sunak /Mordaunt
    Liz Truss/ 7 /0 /0
    Nadhim Zahawi/ 0 /0 /0
    Penny Mordaunt/ 3 /0 /10
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /1 /0
    Suella Braverman/ 4 /1 /0
    Rishi Sunak/ 0 /18 /0
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /0 /0
    Tom Tugendhat/ 0 /2 /0
    Jeremy Hunt/ 1 /0 /0
    Noone/ 30 /10 /4

    Switch matrix of support first round September contest -> October contest
    Please explain.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,133

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Boris /Sunak /Mordaunt
    Liz Truss/ 7 /0 /0
    Nadhim Zahawi/ 0 /0 /0
    Penny Mordaunt/ 3 /0 /10
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /1 /0
    Suella Braverman/ 4 /1 /0
    Rishi Sunak/ 0 /18 /0
    Kemi Badenoch/ 1 /0 /0
    Tom Tugendhat/ 0 /2 /0
    Jeremy Hunt/ 1 /0 /0
    Noone/ 30 /10 /4

    Switch matrix of support first round September contest -> October contest
    Please explain.
    It uses Guido's spreadsheets

    For instance David Morris originally supported Hunt in r1 of the contest last time. This time he supports Boris.
This discussion has been closed.