I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
Is Stevie G going to be also getting his marching orders this evening?
The dream of doing an ok job with Aston Villa and then swooping into manage Liverpool when Kloop goes has gone the way as Fizzy Lizzy as the new Thatcher.
Marsch needs to join him. Leeds were fucking appalling tonight, League One quality at best
Bring back Boris Bielsa.....
Anyone, they were tragic. Flapping about at the back constantly and no penetration at all. Like they couldnt be arsed. Bamford is totally shot. They are going down.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
Same header writer, about Mordaunt, in July: '“I have never supported self-ID” she trills.'
"She trills." Trills. Because trilling is what women do.
I don't know what we are looking at here, jealousy-inspired misogyny against a younger and more successful woman seems probable, but it doesn't look good or do the site any favours.
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
As they are as much a part of the party as MPs, if MPs can't agree a PM that members support then a general election has to occur.
The party leader needs member approval even if the PM doesn't
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
Why are you even bothering to engage with him? It's not in the rules, and it's not happening.
Labour 560 SNP 52 Lib Dem 11 Plaid 4 Conservative 3
So if we lose Scotland there is a danger of England and Wales becoming a one party state.
I’ve never bought this argument that England will be a one-party state without the other countries. It’s usually supposed to be Tory hegemony, but now it’s supposedly to be Labour. Arrant nonsense. England is a rich tapestry, and there will always be variety, even and especially in her politics.
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
Lol - 'how dare you lie and distort my post'. You did that repeatedly to me just yesterday and didn't retract when asked to.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
The New York Times, maintaining its tradition of never getting getting anything right about Britain, have managed to confuse The King with both Charles II and Jesus in one headline.
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
As they are as much a part of the party as MPs, if MPs can't agree a PM that members support then a general election has to occur.
The party leader needs member approval even if the PM doesn't
Whether members support the PM is irrelevant. It is MPs that count under the UK constitution. You're trying to wreck it bu insinuating other bodies. Y
They should take the decision out of the memberships hands, agree a PM and the members can vote for whatever idiot they like to lead their pathetic little party into extinction. Or make it very clear to the membership if they impose Boris then they will collapse the government immediately and force a GE. Put these Truss voting morons back in their box
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
As they are as much a part of the party as MPs, if MPs can't agree a PM that members support then a general election has to occur.
The party leader needs member approval even if the PM doesn't
Whether members support the PM is irrelevant. It is MPs that count under the UK constitution. You're trying to wreck it bu insinuating other bodies. Y
Yes and under my plan MPs get to elect a PM without a general election if their choice confirmed by party members.
If not a snap general election as MPs cannot just have removed the party members choice for leader and impose a new PM if that PM does not have members support. Their choice is for leader of the party too NOT just PM remember, so if the 2 are again in conflict a general election must occur
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
Why are you even bothering to engage with him? It's not in the rules, and it's not happening.
Sometimes there is just too much bollocks. It's worse than a Provencal boucherie window full of couilles.
Run by the most exclusive end of the public school types, of course, they would hold an open competition annually.
I pulled out something about Hamlet's daughters, and was superciliously asked - they did teach you that in your school didn't they? (No).
But, sitcom character like, I wasn't having that and decided to bluff and talk around some pretty generic plot traits.
So, about two minutes in and running out of things to say. I actually fell quite naturally into a Frankie Howard voice and continued in the vane of "Ooooh. the betrayal" for two or three cycles.
I never debated again.
Hamlet's daughters? WTAF?
The whole point of Hamlet is he and his girlfriend get killed off!
I've obviously suppressed this to the extent of misremembering and avoiding many of the plays (had a friend who was mad on Marlowe and went through much of his work). Lear, of course.A bit more Frankie Howard.
Are a minimum of 100 MPs and membership that stupid? You’d be looking at an immediate Tory split and increased calls for a general election
Johnson provoked a split in 2019 and then won a majority of 80 with his true believers.
I know that the situation is different now, but if you're a desperate MP staring at a polling deficit of more than 30pp, I can see why the second coming of Johnson might appeal as a Hail Mary play.
Surely you only play the Hail Mary when there is no downside.
The Tories have every reason to think they will lose with Sunak or Mordaunt, but they do at least live to fight another day.
The banter heuristic is that BoZo wins, Starmer wins a VONC on his first day and an election is called
The Tories gain a tiny majority on the back of a barnstorming campaign by Boris promising the moon on a stick to low information voters. He loses his seat. Starmer resigns. Tory leadership campaign again. The eternal quest for "unity". A Labour leadership election too.
The banter heuristic is that BoZo wins, Starmer wins a VONC on his first day and an election is called
The banter heuristic is that it goes to members, Bozo wins by 0.1 percent, and it is somehow revealed that the digital vote was hacked by the Russians.
Agree entirely on Mordaunt - could one of her fans explain the attraction (as suitability for PM)?
Surely one vacuous purveyor of soundbites is enough for one year?
Depends what the point of the government is for the next 24 months.
If it's to do what the bond markets tell Jeremy Hunt to do, Mordaunt is probably fine to front that. We'll need some vacuous soundbites to get us through the winter and Rishi might be a bit too sleek to sound concerned convincingly.
A neg for Sunak is ironically what cyclefree alludes to as his usp - "I told you so!"
Those in the party who hate him probably hate him even more for that.
Still, he annoys all the right people on the loony wing as far as I'm concerned. Quite like to see him get it.
Labour 560 SNP 52 Lib Dem 11 Plaid 4 Conservative 3
So if we lose Scotland there is a danger of England and Wales becoming a one party state.
I’ve never bought this argument that England will be a one-party state without the other countries. It’s usually supposed to be Tory hegemony, but now it’s supposedly to be Labour. Arrant nonsense. England is a rich tapestry, and there will always be variety, even and especially in her politics.
Jacob Rees-Mogg has come out for Boris. What an odious creep.
Doesn't he realise the country might just possibly be sick and tired of Johnson?
JRM is thinking of his own political future. That's what front-benchers and high-flyers do about 99.46% of the time.
Not just in UK, in US as well. The percentage having arisen appreciably in my lifetime. Not that it was ever much below 90%, mind you. But at least there was SOMETHING left over for something else.
Only thing I appreciate about the future Lord Moogrees or whatever (my nomination: Baron Dingleberry of Frack in the County of Wokeshire) is his chutzpah.
For example, getting the ball really rolling on Fracking just last week, actively mismanaging the (alleged? temporary? moronic!) VOC so spectacularly that the PM was frogmarched out to resign next day - and then start opining on who HE thinks is fit to be the next PM!
Cheek that stupendous should be acknowledged. But NOT kissed. Rather, kicked at every suitable opportunity.
The banter heuristic is that BoZo wins, Starmer wins a VONC on his first day and an election is called
The Tories gain a tiny majority on the back of a barnstorming campaign by Boris promising the moon on a stick to low information voters. He loses his seat. Starmer resigns. Tory leadership campaign again. The eternal quest for "unity". A Labour leadership election too.
By election in a safe seat is more likely in that scenario.
They should take the decision out of the memberships hands, agree a PM and the members can vote for whatever idiot they like to lead their pathetic little party into extinction. Or make it very clear to the membership if they impose Boris then they will collapse the government immediately and force a GE. Put these Truss voting morons back in their box
A Peston poll yesterday had the general public overall backing Sunak as PM but Tory 2019 voters (not even just members) backing Boris as PM again.
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
Why are you even bothering to engage with him? It's not in the rules, and it's not happening.
Sometimes there is just too much bollocks. It's worse than a Provencal boucherie window full of couilles.
There is no point in engaging with him. He’s a nasty piece of work.
They should take the decision out of the memberships hands, agree a PM and the members can vote for whatever idiot they like to lead their pathetic little party into extinction. Or make it very clear to the membership if they impose Boris then they will collapse the government immediately and force a GE. Put these Truss voting morons back in their box
A Peston poll yesterday had the general public overall backing Sunak as PM but Tory 2019 voters (not even just members) backing Boris as PM again.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
If Boris had become PM of Spain for a second time they would have.
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
Why are you even bothering to engage with him? It's not in the rules, and it's not happening.
Sometimes there is just too much bollocks. It's worse than a Provencal boucherie window full of couilles.
There is no point in engaging with him. He’s a nasty piece of work.
Tough, I will still take on and engage with Nats like you whether you like it or not
The Prime Minster has to command the majority of the House. If it gets to the members and they return the second choice we'll have another clusterf*ck. Once we get the final two, the second should step aside (into a high office of state) and let the one most likely to command that majority take up office.
I was struck in Truss's resignation speech about how she couldn't deliver the manifesto she was elected by Conservative members on. FFS Parliament to which she owes her position was elected on the basis of the 2019 GE. Manifestos are not holy writ, but to purport that something she campaigned on to the tiny selectorate of Tory members has greater priority than the whole UK electorate is tone deafness of the highest order.
Hear hear. I also remarked on that second point ('mandate') a couple of threads ago! It's outrageous that HYUFD is still trying to claim that party members should have any involvement whatsoever.
How dare you lie and distort my post to suit your agenda!!!!
I made clear if party members reject the choice of MPs their choice does not become PM, instead only party leader in a snap general election
That's still aborting the choise of MPs - and subverting the constitution. Where in Dicey or Bagehot does it say that Conservative Party members have the right to wreck the decisions of MPs?
No it isn't, you idiot.
If party members rejected the choice of MPs then as I said their choice for leader would never become PM unless they won the snap general election that would be triggered immediately
But that is it. They're wrecking the MPs selection. Can't you get it into your head that you are giving Party members a veto over Parliamentary business?
Yes as the voluntary party still is entitled to have a say in who their party leader is, just not who the PM is if it is not the same choice as MPs without a general election first
But why should the party members be allowed to trigger an election at all? They'rte not MPs.
Why are you even bothering to engage with him? It's not in the rules, and it's not happening.
Sometimes there is just too much bollocks. It's worse than a Provencal boucherie window full of couilles.
There is no point in engaging with him. He’s a nasty piece of work.
Tough, I will still take on and engage with Nats like you whether you like it or not
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
If Boris had become PM of Spain for a second time they would have.
No they wouldn't and unless they invaded Spain and took on the Spanish police and Civil Guard and armed forces and SC they would have had no way of breaking Spain up wthout Madrid consent anyway
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
They should take the decision out of the memberships hands, agree a PM and the members can vote for whatever idiot they like to lead their pathetic little party into extinction. Or make it very clear to the membership if they impose Boris then they will collapse the government immediately and force a GE. Put these Truss voting morons back in their box
A Peston poll yesterday had the general public overall backing Sunak as PM but Tory 2019 voters (not even just members) backing Boris as PM again.
The party is irrevocably split, it needs to divide. The country is paying for it, so screw the membership, the MPs need to appoint a PM and anyone not in favour needs to piss off, or have the whip withdrawn.
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
It would be less than Truss left and would likely save some MPs seats as would Sunak
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
I sorta feel like, given the party is going to get a shellacking regardless, maybe it would be more amusing to see Boris lose than a decent-seeming person like Penny. I don’t like what electing Boris again would say about the Tory Party and I don’t think I could ever forgive them, but maybe it’s time for me to stop seeing myself as a natural Tory voter and just accept the party has left me.
They should take the decision out of the memberships hands, agree a PM and the members can vote for whatever idiot they like to lead their pathetic little party into extinction. Or make it very clear to the membership if they impose Boris then they will collapse the government immediately and force a GE. Put these Truss voting morons back in their box
A Peston poll yesterday had the general public overall backing Sunak as PM but Tory 2019 voters (not even just members) backing Boris as PM again.
The party is irrevocably split, it needs to divide. The country is paying for it, so screw the membership, the MPs need to appoint a PM and anyone not in favour needs to piss off, or have the whip withdrawn.
No, Labour MPs still had to accept the choice of Labour members for Corbyn until election defeats led those members to change their mind
The banter heuristic is that BoZo wins, Starmer wins a VONC on his first day and an election is called
The Tories gain a tiny majority on the back of a barnstorming campaign by Boris promising the moon on a stick to low information voters. He loses his seat. Starmer resigns. Tory leadership campaign again. The eternal quest for "unity". A Labour leadership election too.
Good god are you not satisfied with the current carnage that you fantasize for even more?
The banter heuristic is that BoZo wins, Starmer wins a VONC on his first day and an election is called
The Tories gain a tiny majority on the back of a barnstorming campaign by Boris promising the moon on a stick to low information voters. He loses his seat. Starmer resigns. Tory leadership campaign again. The eternal quest for "unity". A Labour leadership election too.
By election in a safe seat is more likely in that scenario.
The thing is you normally see a situation developing from some way out.
Two weeks into Truss's premiership a lot commented at how good it was Boris was irrelevant, the world has moved on. But that needed time and the time didn't happen.
So now, this isn't a new crisis and election, but has turned into a re-litigation of the last one and so Johnson looms large again as part of that re-litigation
So, I think part tactic, part what the mad Borisites were going to do anyway, was come out of the traps quickly.
If it is entirely the usual suspects - a lot are but there is a smidge of red wall as well - the that nomination count may run out steam. I think the trick here is to assess those declared supporter names and think whether that kind of base will see him to 100 or not.
Agree entirely on Mordaunt - could one of her fans explain the attraction (as suitability for PM)?
Surely one vacuous purveyor of soundbites is enough for one year?
Depends what the point of the government is for the next 24 months.
If it's to do what the bond markets tell Jeremy Hunt to do, Mordaunt is probably fine to front that. We'll need some vacuous soundbites to get us through the winter and Rishi might be a bit too sleek to sound concerned convincingly.
A neg for Sunak is ironically what cyclefree alludes to as his usp - "I told you so!"
Those in the party who hate him probably hate him even more for that.
Still, he annoys all the right people on the loony wing as far as I'm concerned. Quite like to see him get it.
Once tory mps hear from the members this weekend bojo is a shoe in
Truss's failure might lead the Tories to embrace realignment more wholeheartedly:
@danny__kruger Spot on from @MelanieLatest (citing @GoodwinMJ research): 'The party now has to make a choice. Does it want to restore the UK as an independent national project that upholds its historic culture, traditions and institutions? Or does it want to finally break that culture apart on the rocks of social or economic individualism and anti-west ideological dogma?'
This is plain speaking and the language will alarm moderate Conservatives. But this is a critical moment when the nettle must be grasped:
Whatever Govt emerges from this crisis needs to rebuild the 2019 coalition of voters. This means Brexit, borders, manufacturing, family, place, defence, tradition, solidarity... not just tax cuts and technocracy.
We can do that in a way which brings the moderates along : people with an interest in localism, public service reform, help for enterprise, environmental action - all this is compatible with the 2019 alignment. Conservatives unite!
Agree entirely on Mordaunt - could one of her fans explain the attraction (as suitability for PM)?
Surely one vacuous purveyor of soundbites is enough for one year?
Depends what the point of the government is for the next 24 months.
If it's to do what the bond markets tell Jeremy Hunt to do, Mordaunt is probably fine to front that. We'll need some vacuous soundbites to get us through the winter and Rishi might be a bit too sleek to sound concerned convincingly.
A neg for Sunak is ironically what cyclefree alludes to as his usp - "I told you so!"
Those in the party who hate him probably hate him even more for that.
Still, he annoys all the right people on the loony wing as far as I'm concerned. Quite like to see him get it.
Once tory mps hear from the members this weekend bojo is a shoe in
MPs are capable of disagreeing with their members and representing the views of their broader voter pool. Whether they do or not is personal choice.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
Kosovo declared independence in 2008.
Which then started a civil war
Nope, the Kosovo civil war ended in 1999.
KLA forces began a war to break away from Serbia, it was only the UN administration of the area for several years that led to international recognition of Kosovon independence. Though Russia and China have now withdrawn that recognition
Truss's failure might lead the Tories to embrace realignment more wholeheartedly:
@danny__kruger Spot on from @MelanieLatest (citing @GoodwinMJ research): 'The party now has to make a choice. Does it want to restore the UK as an independent national project that upholds its historic culture, traditions and institutions? Or does it want to finally break that culture apart on the rocks of social or economic individualism and anti-west ideological dogma?'
This is plain speaking and the language will alarm moderate Conservatives. But this is a critical moment when the nettle must be grasped:
Whatever Govt emerges from this crisis needs to rebuild the 2019 coalition of voters. This means Brexit, borders, manufacturing, family, place, defence, tradition, solidarity... not just tax cuts and technocracy.
We can do that in a way which brings the moderates along : people with an interest in localism, public service reform, help for enterprise, environmental action - all this is compatible with the 2019 alignment. Conservatives unite!
Baroness Nicholson going studs in to the London private hospital who refused a cancer patient care because as a rape survivor she asked for all-female nursing:
The one constant in the current chaos is likely to be Jeremy Hunt. There's something of a consensus that he must stay at Number 11, providing continued reassurance to the markets https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1583210467714953217
Given we know Truss wears a submissive day collar, are we sure the last six weeks weren't just an exercise in getting the biggest thrill possible from a humiliation fetish?
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
It would be less than Truss left and would likely save some MPs seats as would Sunak
I wasn't just talking about the election. Boris as PM would carry on with his lies and corruption. It was never ending so why would it end now. He would be emboldened. If he got in it would start all over again, starting with the privileges committee outcome.
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
It would be less than Truss left and would likely save some MPs seats as would Sunak
I wasn't just talking about the election. Boris as PM would carry on with his lies and corruption. It was never ending so why would it end now. He would be emboldened. If he got in it would start all over again, starting with the privileges committee outcome.
If you had read what I said earlier Boris would only become PM if most Tory MPs as well as members backed him, if not there would be a snap general election and he would only return as party leader and not PM unless he won that election
Labour 560 SNP 52 Lib Dem 11 Plaid 4 Conservative 3
So if we lose Scotland there is a danger of England and Wales becoming a one party state.
The new compliant from the SNP will be that they have Labour governments imposed on them against their will.
Why not? It'll be true.
The only honest message for the people of Scotland is that within the U.K. you have to accept that’s it’s one person one vote, and all constituencies are equal. There are more constituencies in England than Scotland but that shouldn’t matter any more than it matters that Cornwall or Yorkshire get governments imposed on them. If Boris as PM is enough to be a deal breaker for someone, then they should vote for independence - it means they don’t “feel” like the U.K. is home.
I think that’s simple and true. That’s also why I think the Scots should get a referendum whenever a majority in Hollyrood wants one. Why ever would the rest of the U.K. want to impose something the people of Scotland didn’t want?
I think that position is simple, and true, and I reckon Nicola Sturgeon and I could agree on it.
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 23m Current assumption is Boris’s ceiling is around 70. When he gets beyond that we can start to take him seriously. Until then it’s all a bit frothy.
Agree entirely on Mordaunt - could one of her fans explain the attraction (as suitability for PM)?
Surely one vacuous purveyor of soundbites is enough for one year?
Depends what the point of the government is for the next 24 months.
If it's to do what the bond markets tell Jeremy Hunt to do, Mordaunt is probably fine to front that. We'll need some vacuous soundbites to get us through the winter and Rishi might be a bit too sleek to sound concerned convincingly.
A neg for Sunak is ironically what cyclefree alludes to as his usp - "I told you so!"
Those in the party who hate him probably hate him even more for that.
Still, he annoys all the right people on the loony wing as far as I'm concerned. Quite like to see him get it.
Once tory mps hear from the members this weekend bojo is a shoe in
MPs are representatives not delegates of all their constituents, not just the members of their local party.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
Kosovo declared independence in 2008.
Which then started a civil war
Nope, the Kosovo civil war ended in 1999.
KLA forces began a war to break away from Serbia, it was only the UN administration of the area for several years that led to international recognition of Kosovon independence. Though Russia and China have now withdrawn that recognition
But the Kosovo UDI was in 2008, nine years after the war.
Much as I would like to see Hunt or Sunak for the good of the country, there is a little bit of me that would like to see Boris so that @hyufd can witness the carnage that will happen.
It would be less than Truss left and would likely save some MPs seats as would Sunak
I wasn't just talking about the election. Boris as PM would carry on with his lies and corruption. It was never ending so why would it end now. He would be emboldened. If he got in it would start all over again, starting with the privileges committee outcome.
Yes and i think to try and win the election bojo will up the racist dog whistling and culture wars...he can reach the voters Sunak cant
Boris Johnson is privately urging Rishi Sunak to join forces with him in a remarkable olive branch to his foe
Ally of Boris tells @Telegraph: “If the Tories are serious about winning in 2024 + want to stop a general election before then they need to revert to the…”
“…guy with a mandate who is a seasoned campaigner. They need someone to take the fight to Labour. There’s no point going to a yellow box junction without knowing how you are going to get out of it. Rishi should make contact + work out how the two of them can get back together.”
Agree entirely on Mordaunt - could one of her fans explain the attraction (as suitability for PM)?
Surely one vacuous purveyor of soundbites is enough for one year?
Depends what the point of the government is for the next 24 months.
If it's to do what the bond markets tell Jeremy Hunt to do, Mordaunt is probably fine to front that. We'll need some vacuous soundbites to get us through the winter and Rishi might be a bit too sleek to sound concerned convincingly.
A neg for Sunak is ironically what cyclefree alludes to as his usp - "I told you so!"
Those in the party who hate him probably hate him even more for that.
Still, he annoys all the right people on the loony wing as far as I'm concerned. Quite like to see him get it.
Once tory mps hear from the members this weekend bojo is a shoe in
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 23m Current assumption is Boris’s ceiling is around 70. When he gets beyond that we can start to take him seriously. Until then it’s all a bit frothy.
Ok but mordaunt is looking a no hoper...there are 360 tory mps and with only 2 main candidates think boris could easily reach 100
(((Dan Hodges))) @DPJHodges · 23m Current assumption is Boris’s ceiling is around 70. When he gets beyond that we can start to take him seriously. Until then it’s all a bit frothy.
I fear he is underestimating the number of serious wack-jobs in the parliamentary party.
I'm not saying Boris becoming PM again would be a legitimate reason for Scotland to Unilaterally Declare Independence that would be recognised by International case law but I am absolutely saying that.
Legally even the SC would rule a UDI illegal as the union is a reserved matter to the UK government under the Scotland Act 1998 even if it decides a referendum isn't.
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
Kosovo declared independence in 2008.
Which then started a civil war
Nope, the Kosovo civil war ended in 1999.
KLA forces began a war to break away from Serbia, it was only the UN administration of the area for several years that led to international recognition of Kosovon independence. Though Russia and China have now withdrawn that recognition
But the Kosovo UDI was in 2008, nine years after the war.
And it wasn’t much of a “U” UDI. It was pretty multilateral, just excluding Serbia…
Boris Johnson is privately urging Rishi Sunak to join forces with him in a remarkable olive branch to his foe
Ally of Boris tells @Telegraph: “If the Tories are serious about winning in 2024 + want to stop a general election before then they need to revert to the…”
“…guy with a mandate who is a seasoned campaigner. They need someone to take the fight to Labour. There’s no point going to a yellow box junction without knowing how you are going to get out of it. Rishi should make contact + work out how the two of them can get back together.”
If reckless/brainless attempt to make egomaniac Johnson PM again succeeds, Tory party is headed for split. May happen anyway. But just spoken to two Tory MPs who would resign the whip. Would surely be more. He wouldn't command a Commons majority. Collapses into election wipeout.
Boris Johnson is privately urging Rishi Sunak to join forces with him in a remarkable olive branch to his foe
Ally of Boris tells @Telegraph: “If the Tories are serious about winning in 2024 + want to stop a general election before then they need to revert to the…”
“…guy with a mandate who is a seasoned campaigner. They need someone to take the fight to Labour. There’s no point going to a yellow box junction without knowing how you are going to get out of it. Rishi should make contact + work out how the two of them can get back together.”
The banter heuristic is that BoZo wins, Starmer wins a VONC on his first day and an election is called
The Tories gain a tiny majority on the back of a barnstorming campaign by Boris promising the moon on a stick to low information voters. He loses his seat. Starmer resigns. Tory leadership campaign again. The eternal quest for "unity". A Labour leadership election too.
By election in a safe seat is more likely in that scenario.
My two favorite examples of nationally winning but locally losing Prime Ministers are from Canada:
> In 1873, Conservative John A. Macdonald won the federal election for his party against incumbent Liberal goverment, but was defeated in his home riding of Kingston, Ontario. But because of later GE date, he ran and won in Marquette, Manitoba. Then upon accepting office as Prime Minister, he had to run a THIRD time, and this time chose to stand in a by-election for Victoria, BC that had been arranged for this purpose, and was easily elected. Note that Vic electors strongly backed construction of CPR (to put it mildly) AND as always tried to stay on good side of whoever was in power way far off in Ottawa.
> In June 1945, Liberal Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King was defeated in riding of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, which he'd represented since 1926 by-election. Though from Ontario, he contested this seat for strategic reasons, namely appealing to and winning the Prairie farm vote; having won it, he kept it until he lost it. At that point, Mackenzie King got a fellow Lib with a safe Saskatchewan riding, Glengarry, to give up the seat, then won the subsequent by-election, all while serving as PM in the leadup to V-J Day.
Comments
Hence Sturgeon has also ruled out UDI, no nations recognised Catalonia's declaration of UDI in 2017
BREAKING: Britain sanctions Iran for supplying drones to Russia
https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1583163682460119040
Same header writer, about Mordaunt, in July: '“I have never supported self-ID” she trills.'
"She trills." Trills. Because trilling is what women do.
I don't know what we are looking at here, jealousy-inspired misogyny against a younger and more successful woman seems probable, but it doesn't look good or do the site any favours.
The party leader needs member approval even if the PM doesn't
https://twitter.com/WalkerMarcus/status/1583203005222223872
If not a snap general election as MPs cannot just have removed the party members choice for leader and impose a new PM if that PM does not have members support. Their choice is for leader of the party too NOT just PM remember, so if the 2 are again in conflict a general election must occur
The Tories have every reason to think they will lose with Sunak or Mordaunt, but they do at least live to fight another day.
Boris 2 is an Extinction Event.
He loses his seat.
Starmer resigns.
Tory leadership campaign again. The eternal quest for "unity".
A Labour leadership election too.
Britain falls for Johnson's rogueish charm once more, or Labour elect a couple of hundred paper candidates?
Those in the party who hate him probably hate him even more for that.
Still, he annoys all the right people on the loony wing as far as I'm concerned. Quite like to see him get it.
4.5
Not just in UK, in US as well. The percentage having arisen appreciably in my lifetime. Not that it was ever much below 90%, mind you. But at least there was SOMETHING left over for something else.
Only thing I appreciate about the future Lord Moogrees or whatever (my nomination: Baron Dingleberry of Frack in the County of Wokeshire) is his chutzpah.
For example, getting the ball really rolling on Fracking just last week, actively mismanaging the (alleged? temporary? moronic!) VOC so spectacularly that the PM was frogmarched out to resign next day - and then start opining on who HE thinks is fit to be the next PM!
Cheek that stupendous should be acknowledged. But NOT kissed. Rather, kicked at every suitable opportunity.
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1583079017812353024?s=20&t=gYkjNAaikHXUm3aKvgBV-g
Starmer had a 13% lead over both Boris or Sunak as preferred PM, a 21% lead over Mordaunt, a 30% lead over Badenoch and a 33% lead over Braverman
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1583136338169036807?s=20&t=gYkjNAaikHXUm3aKvgBV-g
Mogg was always going to back Johnson
Two weeks into Truss's premiership a lot commented at how good it was Boris was irrelevant, the world has moved on. But that needed time and the time didn't happen.
So now, this isn't a new crisis and election, but has turned into a re-litigation of the last one and so Johnson looms large again as part of that re-litigation
So, I think part tactic, part what the mad Borisites were going to do anyway, was come out of the traps quickly.
If it is entirely the usual suspects - a lot are but there is a smidge of red wall as well - the that nomination count may run out steam. I think the trick here is to assess those declared supporter names and think whether that kind of base will see him to 100 or not.
@danny__kruger
Spot on from @MelanieLatest (citing @GoodwinMJ research): 'The party now has to make a choice. Does it want to restore the UK as an independent national project that upholds its historic culture, traditions and institutions? Or does it want to finally break that culture apart on the rocks of social or economic individualism and anti-west ideological dogma?'
This is plain speaking and the language will alarm moderate Conservatives. But this is a critical moment when the nettle must be grasped:
Whatever Govt emerges from this crisis needs to rebuild the 2019 coalition of voters. This means Brexit, borders, manufacturing, family, place, defence, tradition, solidarity... not just tax cuts and technocracy.
We can do that in a way which brings the moderates along : people with an interest in localism, public service reform, help for enterprise, environmental action - all this is compatible with the 2019 alignment. Conservatives unite!
https://twitter.com/danny__kruger/status/1583049318445248513
2022
35/1
When Will Liz Truss Be Replaced As PM? (1st Instance Only)
Liz Truss Specials
22:00, 24 Jan
I believe it was Morris Dancer that flagged the odds, which were boosted.
"Party membership is proving to be quite good value. 3 votes for the price of 1."
Johnson 48
Sunak 35
Mordaunt 16
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PRufWhh2YAoxPUJEXeVaEOe7rcT1IINOXijeLI6o9Cc/htmlview?pru=AAABhBthoeI*YJG5k3e4L4BFLO_3x5Du3A#gid=0
https://twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1583133610462236672
https://twitter.com/jonwalker121/status/1583210467714953217
If BoZo wins, does he quit? Or get sacked?
I think that’s simple and true. That’s also why I think the Scots should get a referendum whenever a majority in Hollyrood wants one. Why ever would the rest of the U.K. want to impose something the people of Scotland didn’t want?
I think that position is simple, and true, and I reckon Nicola Sturgeon and I could agree on it.
@DPJHodges
·
23m
Current assumption is Boris’s ceiling is around 70. When he gets beyond that we can start to take him seriously. Until then it’s all a bit frothy.
Boris Johnson is privately urging Rishi Sunak to join forces with him in a remarkable olive branch to his foe
Ally of Boris tells @Telegraph: “If the Tories are serious about winning in 2024 + want to stop a general election before then they need to revert to the…”
“…guy with a mandate who is a seasoned campaigner. They need someone to take the fight to Labour. There’s no point going to a yellow box junction without knowing how you are going to get out of it. Rishi should make contact + work out how the two of them can get back together.”
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1583212562380120071
Less dishonest than Johnson.
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1583154581676359680
> In 1873, Conservative John A. Macdonald won the federal election for his party against incumbent Liberal goverment, but was defeated in his home riding of Kingston, Ontario. But because of later GE date, he ran and won in Marquette, Manitoba. Then upon accepting office as Prime Minister, he had to run a THIRD time, and this time chose to stand in a by-election for Victoria, BC that had been arranged for this purpose, and was easily elected. Note that Vic electors strongly backed construction of CPR (to put it mildly) AND as always tried to stay on good side of whoever was in power way far off in Ottawa.
> In June 1945, Liberal Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King was defeated in riding of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, which he'd represented since 1926 by-election. Though from Ontario, he contested this seat for strategic reasons, namely appealing to and winning the Prairie farm vote; having won it, he kept it until he lost it. At that point, Mackenzie King got a fellow Lib with a safe Saskatchewan riding, Glengarry, to give up the seat, then won the subsequent by-election, all while serving as PM in the leadup to V-J Day.
Source mostly wiki
When you remove those he's level pegging with Sunak, all of whose are named.