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LAB moves to its biggest ever YouGov lead over the Tories – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 30 in General
LAB moves to its biggest ever YouGov lead over the Tories – politicalbetting.com

EXCLUSIVELabour has a **17 point** lead over the Tories, Yougov poll for The Times findsIt's the biggest lead since Yougov started polling in 2001Six in 10 voters think Kwarteng's budget was unfair – the worst rating of any fiscal event since 2010https://t.co/D9KWRAzTxA

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 104,581
    edited September 26
    Kaboom

    YouGov’s survey, which was conducted over the weekend, showed that Tory support had fallen by four points to 28 per cent in the aftermath of the budget while Labour’s had risen five points to 45 per cent and the Lib Dems were unchanged on 8 per cent.




  • The Special Fiscal Operation is going as well as the Special Military Operation.


  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 26
    All very well to talk about conference bounces, but I am pretty certain Liz the Unlubed live on stage is going to have a not necessarily to the tories' advantage effect on the polls.
  • THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278
    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    The patient suffered a fiscal event on Friday morning. It has been on life support ever since, but shows little signs of improvement...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited September 26
    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    EXC: The Treasury has long-grassed Liz Truss’s campaign call to rewrite the Bank of England’s mandate.

    Often mentioned in leadership race but now won’t happen until Spring 2023 at earliest. Bigger fish to fry together: inflation + market jitters.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/banks-pull-mortgages-sale-amid-interest-rate-chaos/
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278

    THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER

    We've often wondered where the Tory base really lies. Maybe we will get to find out?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    Imagine if a young Tony Blair were LOTO.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    Scott_xP said:

    The patient suffered a fiscal event on Friday morning. It has been on life support ever since, but shows little signs of improvement...

    Remains comfortable.
  • https://twitter.com/TelePolitics/status/1574382869035753475

    'This has been the Left’s narrative for the best part of 50 years and invariably it finds itself on the losing side' | Telegraph View

    Phahahaha
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    But they need to clean the wound, too. Who will be in Parliament, but untainted by association with the Johnson or Truss administrations, around which a future government in waiting can be built?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    Kaboom

    YouGov’s survey, which was conducted over the weekend, showed that Tory support had fallen by four points to 28 per cent in the aftermath of the budget while Labour’s had risen five points to 45 per cent and the Lib Dems were unchanged on 8 per cent.


    Those 7% Greens are going to be less on the day, but ain't going to the fracking Tories who scrapped wildlife protections. We may well be at the 20%.




  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    Scott_xP said:

    The patient suffered a fiscal event on Friday morning. It has been on life support ever since, but shows little signs of improvement...

    Remains comfortable.

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    The trouble with enterprise zones is that they are utter bollocks.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    I just put that poll into Electoral Calculus and it puts Labour on 416 seats and the Tories on 182. (with SNP on 51 seats).
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    It’s not over till it’s over. As much as I’d like to see the back of the Tories there’s a long way to go.
  • This is 2008 to 2010 all over again.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 3,157

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    Assuming that isn't what they're doing already. Impoverish the country. Make it impossible for Labour to fix. Blame Starmer when he can't fix it. Come back to sell off whatever remaining assets they can find and steal the proceeds.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    A 17 point lead before this morning's news and the forthcoming mortgage hikes - which will again make news even if it doesn't impact borrowers for a year or more.

    And that's before the 2 week grace window that is needed before new news seeps into the general public's knowledge base.

    Can the return of Parliament the Labour lead could easily be 25 or even 30 points. It's definitely going to go over 20 points and it's incredibly likely that the polls last week will be Truss's best polling.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600
    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The patient suffered a fiscal event on Friday morning. It has been on life support ever since, but shows little signs of improvement...

    Remains comfortable.

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    The trouble with enterprise zones is that they are utter bollocks.
    I mean ill leave aside the debate on them, my point is its the sort of thung that should provoke interest amongst voters. Theyve just written them off without any detail, duggesting a wider writing off
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    The Fed is getting it's blame in first....
  • mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not concerned if Starmer does have a working majority because the debt and problems will still be there, and he will face some very difficult decisions on spending and maintaining investments in the public sector
  • We should commend that PBer who was roundly mocked for saying Truss would be ousted by conference 2023.

    He is such a visionary.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    ...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    It would be outrageous if the Fed wasn't both correct, and more in tune with the British voters than our government.
  • Guardian front page, Tuesday 27 September 2022: Sterling crisis deepens as Truss’s strategy unravels

    https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1574505255588487170/photo/1

    Labour declares it is the party of the centre, as I reported here Mandelson and Campbell are now in charge of strategy once again.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    Someone needs to man up, and it's you. It's a poll. It is hardly surprising under the circumstances, and there will be plenty more of them between now and election day.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not concerned if Starmer does have a working majority because the debt and problems will still be there, and he will face some very difficult decisions on spending and maintaining investments in the public sector
    Which he can spend a decade blaming Tory incompetence.
    He won't be wrong either
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    We should commend that PBer who was roundly mocked for saying Truss would be ousted by conference 2023.

    He is such a visionary.

    You think she can last that long?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    Yes, let's track down the boy who pointed out the emperor was naked and really kick his arse.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450

    We should commend that PBer who was roundly mocked for saying Truss would be ousted by conference 2023.

    He is such a visionary.

    Conference 2022?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,361

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    Body made up of economic types gives economic viewpoint. "Outrage". FFS...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 8,571

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    You are absolutely right Woolie, it is that one measure, scrapping completely the tax on most comfortable off at current time of struggle which came across as the governments main priority, is the prism everything else they say and do is now seen through.

    What were they thinking as they smugly strolled in to deliver that?
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278
    pigeon said:

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    Assuming that isn't what they're doing already. Impoverish the country. Make it impossible for Labour to fix. Blame Starmer when he can't fix it. Come back to sell off whatever remaining assets they can find and steal the proceeds.
    I think the scale of this fiasco gives Labour 2 goes at "doing the responsible things to fix a generation of damage" before the public turf them out (assuming things don't improve significantly over 10 years).
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    edited September 26

    We should commend that PBer who was roundly mocked for saying Truss would be ousted by conference 2023.

    He is such a visionary.

    It's a shame Parliament isn't sitting this week.

    If it was it's possible Truss could have been ousted by conference 2022....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648

    It's basically over. Kwarteng did for them.

    Starmer is now the PM-in-waiting and will be for next two years. If they last that long. The media will increasingly treat him as such and it will be almost visible as the power shifts across the landscape and into him and his aides and shadow cabinet.

    Yep, the Tories need to focus on getting enough to be effective as opposition, or split and let things get redesigned. They are dysfuntional
    Its over. Its worse than 93 to 97
    Boris should start a party with Farage.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600
    edited September 26
    Foxy said:

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    It would be outrageous if the Fed wasn't both correct, and more in tune with the British voters than our government.
    Actually it would be just as outrageous if either or both of those things were true. And it's quite pathetic to use such suppositions to excuse the intervention.
  • Doesn't matter what happens, you can be sure Russianguy1983 will be wrong
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461

    Wow! The worst exchange rate against the Dollar since 1792 which means the worst ever. "This shouldn't happen to a G7 currency' says Faisal Islam.
  • dixiedean said:

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not concerned if Starmer does have a working majority because the debt and problems will still be there, and he will face some very difficult decisions on spending and maintaining investments in the public sector
    Which he can spend a decade blaming Tory incompetence.
    He won't be wrong either
    Indeed but he will be the one having to provide the answers and I do not envy him
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644

    We should commend that PBer who was roundly mocked for saying Truss would be ousted by conference 2023.

    He is such a visionary.

    I’d wait until it happens before being too smug😀
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Appalling opening for the Truss government in the first few mins of BBC news at 10.

    Millions watching and quite possibly many who do not follow news during the day learning about Black Monday.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461

    Labour are starting to look like the real thing. Just keep Angela Rayner away from the cameras until after the election and we could be into a '97 type score.

    Truss and Kwarteng.....Starmer must be pinching himself.
  • In 2008 we just waited for Brown to leave Number 10.

    Now is the time for Liz.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644

    Appalling opening for the Truss government in the first few mins of BBC news at 10.

    Millions watching and quite possibly many who do not follow news during the day learning about Black Monday.

    Is that the Monday where the pound was basically unchanged against the dollar. I.e. today.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225

    Appalling opening for the Truss government in the first few mins of BBC news at 10.

    Millions watching and quite possibly many who do not follow news during the day learning about Black Monday.

    Is an unprecedented financial crisis just a cunning plan to keep the Labour conference off the airwaves?
  • Remember when people said Truss was underestimated ROFL
  • We should commend that PBer who was roundly mocked for saying Truss would be ousted by conference 2023.

    He is such a visionary.

    I’d wait until it happens before being too smug😀
    Me? becoming? smug?

    Never going to happen because I'm usually unbearably smug.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600
    Roger said:


    Wow! The worst exchange rate against the Dollar since 1792 which means the worst ever. "This shouldn't happen to a G7 currency' says Faisal Islam.

    Oh well, if Truss has lost Faisal Islam, she should just chuck it in now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    edited September 26
    Truss on 28%, an even lower voteshare for the Tories than Major got in 1997 or even Wellington got in 1832.

    However I can't see her going, the Tories removed Boris and now have made their bed and have to lie in it and just try and minimise the damage at the next election and rebuild in opposition
  • https://twitter.com/sgfmann/status/1574505290644561920

    Daily Express: DON’T PANIC! WE HAVE GOT A PLAN TO CUT DEBT #TomorrowsPapersToday

    My God, they are giving up.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,304
    Replying to @kle4 FPT

    It’s a conference poll, so ignore it.

    But, on your wider point, there were sources in the papers at the weekend saying that what is different now is that Labour are winning direct switchers from the Tories (rather than grinding out leads via attrition from the minor parties)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    ...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    edited September 26

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not a Labour voter by any means. Labour are probably the party I have voted for less often than any other, even the Greens. The Tories (as was, pre-2015) were probably the party I voted for the most.

    But if Labour are the price of getting rid of this shower then so be it. And if Labour do enact PR then I will definitely be voting for them.

    It is clear that the system needs to change. FPTP is no longer fit for purpose. It only worked when politicians had integrity and the guts to face the public down for the good of the country rather than their party. The Boris's, Truss's and Corbyns have shown how badly reform is needed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,103
    Gambling with your money is a good line from Reeves.

    Labour should flood their comms and social media with this line.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    ...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,863
    I am resigned to PM Starmer, indeed I have been so for some time

    The sadness is that there WAS a low tax, small government, non-Woke future for the UK, which might have prospered mightily, in the end. Events have conspired against. If it ever happens it is now far in the future

    Rightwingers like me simply have to take it on the chin, too many Tory governments have fucked up in too many ways

    On the upside, Starmer saves the Union, I think. He won't grant indyref2, and with - as seems increasingly likely - an overall majority, he won't even be under any pressure to do so. Ergo my beloved island nation survives

    And on we go
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,551
    Roger said:


    Wow! The worst exchange rate against the Dollar since 1792 which means the worst ever. "This shouldn't happen to a G7 currency' says Faisal Islam.

    No 10 will be ordering the firing of Faisal Islam for daring to criticize the Maggie Clone .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Fuck, these guys are desperate...


  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,755
    edited September 26
    We do need the Lib Dems a bit higher in polling for a proper Tory Armageddon at the next election though. 9% is poor only a month or so after a string of 13-14%s.

    LLG 61% which is pretty healthy, but an unrealistically high green score.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461
    Scott_xP said:

    Traders are referring to Truss as “Daggers” - as in Dagenham, 2 stops past Barking…🤣🤣
    https://twitter.com/alibrady1860/status/1574417566432362498

    Brilliant!
  • Is Bart okay?
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819

    Replying to @kle4 FPT

    It’s a conference poll, so ignore it.

    But, on your wider point, there were sources in the papers at the weekend saying that what is different now is that Labour are winning direct switchers from the Tories (rather than grinding out leads via attrition from the minor parties)

    Hang on - if this was Thursday or Friday it would be a conference poll.

    This was run over the weekend before conferences began - it's really just a normal poll - albeit the one where Truss should be at least reducing the Tory leader following a successful and popular budget announcement

    Oops...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620
    Just seen Rachel Reeves pledge to double medical school places. I had missed that before.

    I don't think we have that capacity, but even if we did, it would be better to address the problem of retention and to keep the ones already trained. Ditto teachers etc.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148
    Roger said:


    Wow! The worst exchange rate against the Dollar since 1792 which means the worst ever. "This shouldn't happen to a G7 currency' says Faisal Islam.

    Not necessarily all bad however, that is good news for UK exporters to the US and the UK tourist industry in terms of attracting US tourists. Even it is terrible news for those who import US goods and supplies which will be much more expensive and UK tourists wanting to travel to the US who would face very high prices
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck, these guys are desperate...


    Let me guess, they are going to borrow to cut the debt! Brilliant!!!!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600
    DougSeal said:

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    Body made up of economic types gives economic viewpoint. "Outrage". FFS...
    Really - has anyone in the British Government or BOE ever mounted a public critique of Federal Reserve policy? Much less attempted to relegate their policy to the status of 'proposals'?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620
    eek said:

    Replying to @kle4 FPT

    It’s a conference poll, so ignore it.

    But, on your wider point, there were sources in the papers at the weekend saying that what is different now is that Labour are winning direct switchers from the Tories (rather than grinding out leads via attrition from the minor parties)

    Hang on - if this was Thursday or Friday it would be a conference poll.

    This was run over the weekend before conferences began - it's really just a normal poll - albeit the one where Truss should be at least reducing the Tory leader following a successful and popular budget announcement

    Oops...
    Indeed showing the Truss bounce...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278
    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck, these guys are desperate...


    Shouldn't that headline be accompanied by a picture of Clive Dunn as Corporal Jones, with Kwarteng's face badly pasted on?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,540
    This is the second poll with Labour on 45%, a score that Labour managed many times under Miliband's leadership, but they only once went one point better to 46%.

    The thing that stands out to me, still, is not publishing anything from the OBR. It reminds me of something that is said about the Russians, that they will lie even when they know that you know they are lying, as with the nonsense over Salisbury Cathedral.

    Not publishing the OBR forecasts feels like the same sort of thing. They know that we know it's because they will be terrible, but they weren't going to publish them anyway. It shows complete contempt.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    mwadams said:

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    But they need to clean the wound, too. Who will be in Parliament, but untainted by association with the Johnson or Truss administrations, around which a future government in waiting can be built?
    Theyve had to clean the wound too often. Maybe they are just past their sell by. Maybe the right needs proper populism not spivs and frauds and etonian c***s
  • DougSeal said:

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    Body made up of economic types gives economic viewpoint. "Outrage". FFS...
    Really - has anyone in the British Government or BOE ever mounted a public critique of Federal Reserve policy? Much less attempted to relegate their policy to the status of 'proposals'?
    You are genuinely batty.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    HYUFD said:

    Truss on 28%, an even lower voteshare for the Tories than Major got in 1997 or even Wellington got in 1832.

    However I can't see her going, the Tories removed Boris and now have made their bed and have to lie in it and just try and minimise the damage at the next election and rebuild in opposition

    At what point does Truss have a problem - because 28% is already the point at which only monkeys with blue rosettes are voting for the Tory party. There really shouldn't be anywhere lower to go yet this doesn't feel anything like the bottom....
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,148

    Appalling opening for the Truss government in the first few mins of BBC news at 10.

    Millions watching and quite possibly many who do not follow news during the day learning about Black Monday.

    Manic Monday I would say. I mean we had the recovery in the middle of the day followed by the inexplicable statements from Treasury and BofE.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,620

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck, these guys are desperate...


    Let me guess, they are going to borrow to cut the debt! Brilliant!!!!
    Frozen public spending budgets and 10% inflation will settle the debt.

    Won't do much for the grey-haired client vote, but would be the IMF approach.
  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck, these guys are desperate...


    Shouldn't that headline be accompanied by a picture of Clive Dunn as Corporal Jones, with Kwarteng's face badly pasted on?
    It's the Express not the Story.

    Oh and the plan is to cut spending - good luck with that because although the last time it removed Labour from running many local council those councils are now Tory councils....
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss on 28%, an even lower voteshare for the Tories than Major got in 1997 or even Wellington got in 1832.

    However I can't see her going, the Tories removed Boris and now have made their bed and have to lie in it and just try and minimise the damage at the next election and rebuild in opposition

    At what point does Truss have a problem - because 28% is already the point at which only monkeys with blue rosettes are voting for the Tory party. There really shouldn't be anywhere lower to go yet this doesn't feel anything like the bottom....
    She has a real problem right now and her mps must be very worried
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,600
    edited September 26
    ...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,148

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not a Labour voter by any means. Labour are probably the party I have voted for less often than any other, even the Greens. The Tories (as was, pre-2015) were probably the party I voted for the most.

    But if Labour are the price of getting rid of this shower then so be it. And if Labour do enact PR then I will definitely be voting for them.

    It is clear that the system needs to change. FPTP is no longer fit for purpose. It only worked when politicians had integrity and the guts to face the public down for the good of the country rather than their party. The Boris's, Truss's and Corbyns have shown how badly reform is needed.
    Now Starmer is heading for a majority he will file PR in a bottom drawer and never get it out again
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278

    mwadams said:

    The problem here, 17 fucking points notwithstanding (!) Is that there appears to be no confidence in them. Things like enterprize zones shouldnt be getting panned in polling and clearly voters do not believe the dash for growth will produce growth. Because theyve concluded the budget wasnt fair, youre not going to convince them it will achieve its aim. And so it just becomes a sop to the rich.
    Theyre screwed. Nothing can turn this round. All efforts for the tories need to be on being in a position to come back after one term out.

    But they need to clean the wound, too. Who will be in Parliament, but untainted by association with the Johnson or Truss administrations, around which a future government in waiting can be built?
    Theyve had to clean the wound too often. Maybe they are just past their sell by. Maybe the right needs proper populism not spivs and frauds and etonian c***s
    I agree. It's what they need to do, but I don't think they can do it. How can you clean the wound when the whole limb is gangrenous? It needs chopping off and starting again.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 28,225
    Tory source tells @oliver_wright et al: “If your plan is unpopular with the markets but popular with voters, then that’s an okay place to be. But if you’ve spent all this money and it’s unpopular with everyone, then that is very dangerous.”
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1574508334476103680
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 2,278
    HYUFD said:

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not a Labour voter by any means. Labour are probably the party I have voted for less often than any other, even the Greens. The Tories (as was, pre-2015) were probably the party I voted for the most.

    But if Labour are the price of getting rid of this shower then so be it. And if Labour do enact PR then I will definitely be voting for them.

    It is clear that the system needs to change. FPTP is no longer fit for purpose. It only worked when politicians had integrity and the guts to face the public down for the good of the country rather than their party. The Boris's, Truss's and Corbyns have shown how badly reform is needed.
    Now Starmer is heading for a majority he will file PR in a bottom drawer and never get it out again
    Past performance would suggest that is the case. But we live in strange times.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,304

    Guardian front page, Tuesday 27 September 2022: Sterling crisis deepens as Truss’s strategy unravels

    https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1574505255588487170/photo/1

    Labour declares it is the party of the centre, as I reported here Mandelson and Campbell are now in charge of strategy once again.

    Yes, their influence is palpable. Quite bizarre really that two of the sharpest brains in politics were effectively sidelined for so long. The Corbyn era was a stain on Labour’s history.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    So. What happened to the details of the energy Support? Still no idea what I'll be paying next week.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 7,148

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Truss on 28%, an even lower voteshare for the Tories than Major got in 1997 or even Wellington got in 1832.

    However I can't see her going, the Tories removed Boris and now have made their bed and have to lie in it and just try and minimise the damage at the next election and rebuild in opposition

    At what point does Truss have a problem - because 28% is already the point at which only monkeys with blue rosettes are voting for the Tory party. There really shouldn't be anywhere lower to go yet this doesn't feel anything like the bottom....
    She has a real problem right now and her mps must be very worried
    She also chose to surround herself with pure loyalists. Always a risky strategy.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644

    This story is a complete insignificance compared to the Federal Reserve, a body that hasn't even been elected to rule the US, let alone the UK, telling the UK Chancellor to change his policy, in public. It is an international outrage.

    I think you need to understand the nature of power, who has it and who doesn't.

    Then you can think about how we lost ours (clue: which party has been in power for a fair while).
  • mwadams said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Fuck, these guys are desperate...


    Shouldn't that headline be accompanied by a picture of Clive Dunn as Corporal Jones, with Kwarteng's face badly pasted on?
    The Star's portrayal of KK almost makes me feel sorry for him. Enough to make it clear he's (yet another) clown, but in the most dismal way possible.


  • eekeek Posts: 21,819
    Foxy said:

    Just seen Rachel Reeves pledge to double medical school places. I had missed that before.

    I don't think we have that capacity, but even if we did, it would be better to address the problem of retention and to keep the ones already trained. Ditto teachers etc.

    I think we end up having to do both. Remember any student thinking of going into medicine is 5-8 years from being useful and a lot of people will be retiring / early retiring in the next 8 years...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,322
    HYUFD said:

    mwadams said:

    The only thing that can save the Conservative Party in the medium term is an electoral evisceration so complete that they have to rebuild from scratch.

    I think we need something else frankly. They're corrupt, they are stupid, they are inept, they are idiotic, they spent weeks and weeks in the teeth of a crisis having pissing contests. And we cannot, cannot, cannot let Labour have a massive majority. Something, Someone needs to step up
    I am not a Labour voter by any means. Labour are probably the party I have voted for less often than any other, even the Greens. The Tories (as was, pre-2015) were probably the party I voted for the most.

    But if Labour are the price of getting rid of this shower then so be it. And if Labour do enact PR then I will definitely be voting for them.

    It is clear that the system needs to change. FPTP is no longer fit for purpose. It only worked when politicians had integrity and the guts to face the public down for the good of the country rather than their party. The Boris's, Truss's and Corbyns have shown how badly reform is needed.
    Now Starmer is heading for a majority he will file PR in a bottom drawer and never get it out again
    I would still trust him more than that shower of liars, spivs and conmen that you have hitched your wagon to. Even if he did lie half as much as they do, he would be a massive improvement on the current govt
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 10,644
    eek said:

    Replying to @kle4 FPT

    It’s a conference poll, so ignore it.

    But, on your wider point, there were sources in the papers at the weekend saying that what is different now is that Labour are winning direct switchers from the Tories (rather than grinding out leads via attrition from the minor parties)

    Hang on - if this was Thursday or Friday it would be a conference poll.

    This was run over the weekend before conferences began - it's really just a normal poll - albeit the one where Truss should be at least reducing the Tory leader following a successful and popular budget announcement

    Oops...
    Lots of coverage started on Sunday, including on mainstream TV (Starmer on Kuensberg etc).
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 26
    HYUFD said:

    Truss on 28%, an even lower voteshare for the Tories than Major got in 1997 or even Wellington got in 1832.

    However I can't see her going, the Tories removed Boris and now have made their bed and have to lie in it and just try and minimise the damage at the next election and rebuild in opposition

    Weird, your usual house style is "we Tories removed Boris and now have made our bed and have to lie in it and just try and minimise the damage at the next election and rebuild in opposition." I do hope you are not questioning your faith here.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 24,450
    Long standing friends is quite the euphemism.
This discussion has been closed.