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My September CON poll lead bet a looking a bit sick – politicalbetting.com

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  • geoffw said:

    With all eyes glued to the screen would someone please tell us whether the sky has fallen in?

    The pound has risen back to $1.08 as markets gain confidence in Truss.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,568
    edited September 2022


    I suspect it is true. I've heard numerous times about doctors and senior nurses spending a considerable chunk of their time doing administration and management tasks that could be picked up by dedicated admin staff.

    Step 1: Sack a bunch of admin staff on £20k
    Step 2: Get their work done by doctors on £70k using up 25-40% of their time
    Step 3: Wonder why the outcomes are getting worse against money spent.
    Step 4: Look at options to decrease non-medical-staff spend
    Step 5: Return to Step 1

    Doctors and senior nurses spend a ludicrous amount of their time doing admin (at which they are not very good), and even more time scrabbling about trying to compensate for failures in admin. It is most definitely true that we need more, and better, and better paid, managers in the NHS, but there is also the huge problem that doctors won't let them manage. It's an extremely difficult issue to address within the current NHS structure; I suspect that it won't improve unless we finally get a complete restructuring which brings private companies much more into the frame in supplying services. Unfortunately that's not looking likely at the moment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074
    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 6,890
    What should I do if I consider this a £-buying opportunity?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    "I'm beginning to wonder whether the Tories will even show up for the fight"

    Cracking line!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 4,018
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    If anything the Queen's death helped Liz Truss by (allegedly) uniting the country and deflecting away from her ineptitude.

    Nothing was going to cause a Conservative poll lead. Truss is inept and a liability.

    As for the budget: the stupidest for half a century.

    The UK is in trouble. The tories even more so.

    Bit harsh, that. It implies there were some budgets in the early 70s that were stupider.
    Well quite.

    But 1972 wasn't exactly a bright moment either.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,715
    Pulpstar said:

    PeterM said:

    Heathener said:

    If anything the Queen's death helped Liz Truss by (allegedly) uniting the country and deflecting away from her ineptitude.

    Nothing was going to cause a Conservative poll lead. Truss is inept and a liability.

    As for the budget: the stupidest for half a century.

    The UK is in trouble. The tories even more so.

    The world is in trouble. The Fed are torching everything. Once our turn is over its back to mudering the Euro.
    OECD growth estimates out today for 2023 show Germany dying in agony.
    Paris on the eve of war but I forgot my wallet
    Goodnight Vienna etc
    Something has to give. Then everything will.
    Woolie predicts the econopocalypse coming this winter/spring
    Also how will all this pain impact the support for the ukraine war as it grinds on through the winter
    I think the next development is that Russia will officially declare war on Ukraine at the start of next week. The referenda occurring & Ukranian control of Zaporizhia pretty much guarantee it.
    With the shooting at the draft office in Irkutsk of a recruiting officer, it looks more of a civil war developing in Russia.
  • HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    LizT could make the same promise; maybe she did. Trussanomics holds that Osborne's austerity was a mistake.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788
    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    So not that adult then. Just another politician/liar who claims we can go on borrowing indefinitely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    LizT could make the same promise; maybe she did. Trussanomics holds that Osborne's austerity was a mistake.
    For now, however to fund her huge tax cuts without yet more borrowing and deficits spending cuts have to come eventually.

    Reeves confirmed again she will restore the 45p top income tax rate Kwarteng has just scrapped to big cheers. Also promised to expand medical school places
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    PeterM said:

    Heathener said:

    If anything the Queen's death helped Liz Truss by (allegedly) uniting the country and deflecting away from her ineptitude.

    Nothing was going to cause a Conservative poll lead. Truss is inept and a liability.

    As for the budget: the stupidest for half a century.

    The UK is in trouble. The tories even more so.

    The world is in trouble. The Fed are torching everything. Once our turn is over its back to mudering the Euro.
    OECD growth estimates out today for 2023 show Germany dying in agony.
    Paris on the eve of war but I forgot my wallet
    Goodnight Vienna etc
    Something has to give. Then everything will.
    Woolie predicts the econopocalypse coming this winter/spring
    Also how will all this pain impact the support for the ukraine war as it grinds on through the winter
    I think the next development is that Russia will officially declare war on Ukraine at the start of next week. The referenda occurring & Ukranian control of Zaporizhia pretty much guarantee it.
    I agree as to Russia declaring war. It's totally a ridiculous convoluted thought process given that Ukraine has made repeated strikes inside Russia (never mind Crimea) without Russia declaring war.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 11,490
    Reeves just pledged to double the number of nurses (?) trained every year. I don't think she quite meant exponential growth...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,991
    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    If anything the Queen's death helped Liz Truss by (allegedly) uniting the country and deflecting away from her ineptitude.

    Nothing was going to cause a Conservative poll lead. Truss is inept and a liability.

    As for the budget: the stupidest for half a century.

    The UK is in trouble. The tories even more so.

    Bit harsh, that. It implies there were some budgets in the early 70s that were stupider.
    Barber is definitely in the running, though it's difficult to compare directly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438
    £ now surging against the €
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    edited September 2022
    Reeves looks and speaks like a prime minister in waiting.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,593

    eek said:

    [snip]
    Would be nice to see that 45% transform into 43% at £100,000 with no clawback of allowances though...

    Can we make @eek Chancellor please, he seems to have a much better plan than either the government or the opposition.
    Hey that's my policy!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,897
    In more Levelling Up news - Doncaster Airport to close.
  • DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    So not that adult then. Just another politician/liar who claims we can go on borrowing indefinitely.
    Not necessarily, what is 'austerity'? It's a stupid, meaningless term, especially when used to describe Osborne's increases in public spending.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788

    geoffw said:

    With all eyes glued to the screen would someone please tell us whether the sky has fallen in?

    The pound has risen back to $1.08 as markets gain confidence in Truss.
    Surely Kami-Kwasi? ed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,074
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    So not that adult then. Just another politician/liar who claims we can go on borrowing indefinitely.
    Labour are going to put up taxes to pay for that extra spending though, especially for high earners and corporations
  • MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    [snip]
    Would be nice to see that 45% transform into 43% at £100,000 with no clawback of allowances though...

    Can we make @eek Chancellor please, he seems to have a much better plan than either the government or the opposition.
    Hey that's my policy!
    Actually even 45% from £100K without the clawback of allowances would be a big improvement.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,507

    Reeves just pledged to double the number of nurses (?) trained every year. I don't think she quite meant exponential growth...

    We will all be nurses by 2030.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438
    The BofE will have to intervene to keep the £ DOWN at this rate
  • Selebian said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Funny, but I don't agree with it, but a work colleague this morning, when I asked, thought the mini-budget was pretty good and would lead to the government having to undertake significant spending cuts.

    "Mainly the bloated NHS I hope" he said, before remarking that he considered the NHS to be hugely overburdened with management staff who could easily be cut for huge savings in spending.

    The chap is a senior manager and been in accountancy for fourty years..... I wasn't totally taken by his argument.

    Could he be right?

    According to the published figures, the NHS spends a smaller proportion on management than many other health services. Especially the United States!
    I think it was Dr Foxy who pointed out last week that many of the people titled manager also had health professional jobs.
    Some of the people I read (Andy Cowper etc.) are pretty confident the NHS is underspending on managers... that more are needed to drive efficiency gains, redesign services etc.

    Whether that's true or not - I am pretty confident that the pressures on the service far outweigh any easy low-hanging fruit on spending cuts.
    I suspect it is true. I've heard numerous times about doctors and senior nurses spending a considerable chunk of their time doing administration and management tasks that could be picked up by dedicated admin staff.

    Step 1: Sack a bunch of admin staff on £20k
    Step 2: Get their work done by doctors on £70k using up 25-40% of their time
    Step 3: Wonder why the outcomes are getting worse against money spent.
    Step 4: Look at options to decrease non-medical-staff spend
    Step 5: Return to Step 1
    Not the only place to try that kind of thing. Our uni introduced, at some point, a rule where admin roles could only be advertised when actually vacant. So we knew our research group administrator was leaving, but we couldn't advertise until she had actually left, resulting in a gap of around three months during which we did most of our own admin, less well, on higher pay (with some help from departmental admin, but they were busy too). Still looks to the university like a cost-cutting wheeze as the drop in e.g. new grant income takes some time to happen and is hard to pin to those three months.
    We have exactly the same situation. We've had people leave who have donkey's years of experience and know every system, process and procedure back to front - but we can't hire someone to shadow them before they leave so the new person comes in and has to start totally fresh. I'm sure somewhere it's looking like a whizzo cost saving, but in practice the amount of time lost is horrific.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    geoffw said:

    With all eyes glued to the screen would someone please tell us whether the sky has fallen in?

    The pound has risen back to $1.08 as markets gain confidence in Truss.
    I assume you are joking? The wider view is, it's confidence in A Bailey.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,869
    I know it's a party conference speech but that was the most clichéd speech I have ever heard. So our choice at the next election is between a genius/maniac in the Tory chancellor or this load of old guff from Labour?

    God help us.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Leon said:

    £ now surging against the €


    One reason for the pound's surge against the euro is today's German IFO survey, which showed a deepening recession in the county.

    The BoE can push rates higher if it wants to match the Fed.

    The ECB....?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Leon said:

    £ now surging against the €

    FFS ive just called the econopocalypse. Arse biscuits.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,991

    Heathener said:

    eek said:

    ClippP said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    A bean counter this morning:

    - Undoing the childcare cliff edge would cost ca. £800m but the additional tax raised would come in at £1.4bn due to people working full time again or canning pension AVCs.

    - Undoing the allowance withdrawal would cost £1.6bn but raise somewhere between £3.3bn and £4.1bn depending on overall behavioural change and it would stop an annual tax gap (through avoidance) of £0.5bn.

    These two measures are slam dunks. I still can't fathom why we got an additional rate cut but not this which affects far, far more people.

    Because Kwasi Kwarteng is an idiot and just randomly picked ideas his mates had suggested instead of doing any proper analysis.....
    Somebody suggested that Kwasi's performance so far is worthy of a tinpot dictatorship in some Latin American banana republic. He is certainly out of his depth here. Ought not Truss to do something to resolve this problem?
    There is enough evidence from the Weekend papers that Truss is party to all this and therefore equally part of the problem...
    Yep.

    For years she's been known in the civil service as the human hand grenade.

    She too is completely out of her depth.

    What a fuck up.
    Her being a human hand grenade is part of why some of us wanted her to win...
    That would have been an interesting point to put to the actual electorate, rather than the handful of loons who actually voted for her.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,593

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    [snip]
    Would be nice to see that 45% transform into 43% at £100,000 with no clawback of allowances though...

    Can we make @eek Chancellor please, he seems to have a much better plan than either the government or the opposition.
    Hey that's my policy!
    Actually even 45% from £100K without the clawback of allowances would be a big improvement.
    43% is actually 45% because of NI, I think 45% of someone's income is a fair amount for the state to take for higher earners and it leaves people feeling better off having 55% of a big number rather than 38% where they are working for the government, not themselves.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438
    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss
  • Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    PeterM said:

    Heathener said:

    If anything the Queen's death helped Liz Truss by (allegedly) uniting the country and deflecting away from her ineptitude.

    Nothing was going to cause a Conservative poll lead. Truss is inept and a liability.

    As for the budget: the stupidest for half a century.

    The UK is in trouble. The tories even more so.

    The world is in trouble. The Fed are torching everything. Once our turn is over its back to mudering the Euro.
    OECD growth estimates out today for 2023 show Germany dying in agony.
    Paris on the eve of war but I forgot my wallet
    Goodnight Vienna etc
    Something has to give. Then everything will.
    Woolie predicts the econopocalypse coming this winter/spring
    Also how will all this pain impact the support for the ukraine war as it grinds on through the winter
    I think the next development is that Russia will officially declare war on Ukraine at the start of next week. The referenda occurring & Ukranian control of Zaporizhia pretty much guarantee it.
    I agree as to Russia declaring war. It's totally a ridiculous convoluted thought process given that Ukraine has made repeated strikes inside Russia (never mind Crimea) without Russia declaring war.
    Russia will declare war against whom? It would need to find a way to confine it to Ukraine and not any of the countries helping Ukraine, for fear of escalating Nato involvement. Colour me sceptical.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,897

    geoffw said:

    With all eyes glued to the screen would someone please tell us whether the sky has fallen in?

    The pound has risen back to $1.08 as markets gain confidence in Truss.
    Chris Philp has joined us!
  • glwglw Posts: 8,869

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    So not that adult then. Just another politician/liar who claims we can go on borrowing indefinitely.
    Not necessarily, what is 'austerity'? It's a stupid, meaningless term, especially when used to describe Osborne's increases in public spending.
    Not only that, but it also supposes that a government even has a choice.

    One promise I'd like to hear from a politician is the promise to stop making stupid promises.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,623
    Jonathan said:

    Reeves speaks , the pound rises.

    As opposed to......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFNRUuBARM4
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    edited September 2022
    The market movement everybody may be missing could be European and UK gas futures, which are getting absolutely slotted yet again.

    The more the price falls, the less the UK government has to borrow.

    Andrew Neill pointed out the GBP150bn borrowing figure is based on gas futures when they were close to the absolute high - they are much lower now.


  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,294
    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,991
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    [snip]
    Would be nice to see that 45% transform into 43% at £100,000 with no clawback of allowances though...

    Can we make @eek Chancellor please, he seems to have a much better plan than either the government or the opposition.
    Hey that's my policy!
    You can be eek's SPAD, then :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,897
    edited September 2022
    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    £ now surging against the €

    One reason for the pound's surge against the euro is today's German IFO survey, which showed a deepening recession in the county.

    The BoE can push rates higher if it wants to match the Fed.

    The ECB....?
    Yes I wonder who'll be better at penalty shoot outs ... sorry at controlling inflation ... us or Germany?
  • MISTY said:

    The market movement everybody may be missing could be European and UK gas futures, which are getting absolutely slotted yet again.

    The more the price falls, the less the UK government has to borrow.

    Andrew Neill pointed out the GBP150bn borrowing figure is based on gas futures when they were close to the absolute high - they are much lower now.

    DavidL and others have been saying the same on pb. Although gas and oil are priced in dollars which does not help. Is continental electricity bought in euros?
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    Leon said:

    £ now surging against the €

    One reason for the pound's surge against the euro is today's German IFO survey, which showed a deepening recession in the county.

    The BoE can push rates higher if it wants to match the Fed.

    The ECB....?
    Yes I wonder who'll be better at penalty shoot outs... sorry at controlling inflation ... us or Germany?

    That was certainly true when Germany controlled its own inflation.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    Election maps uk has revised his hint about tonights redfield from very spicy to spicy as the Labour fan boys were convinced it was the long awaited 20 pointer. It isnt, he says. 13 pointer, biggest lab lead with them yet is my prediction
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788
    So after all the excitment of Italy (who may have a new government in a month or so) is there any exit polling in the Donbas to look forward to? Could be a close one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.

    If you want to see a currency in hysterical trouble, rather than this recent mild turbulence in the £, look at the performance of the Turkish Lira against sterling in the last decade


  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,574
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    The problem with that - and I say this as somebody who wouldn't need a lot of convincing to vote Labour - is it's very difficult to see how we don't have austerity from the mess we're in.

    Public finances are creaking. Interest levels are soaring. We need to get the deficit under control so we can begin to deal with the latter problem, but even if we stop adding to it tomorrow, for the next several years we will be spending as much on debt interest as on defence, education and transport combined.

    Well, that's got to be paid for. How? Tax rises are one way, and they're going to have to be part of it one way or another. But unless we have such enormous tax rises that they are in themselves a form of austerity then we're going to need to cut spending pretty dramatically as well.

    So I'm doubtful about her claims.

    What this country has needed for years, and not had, is an honest conversation about what things cost, how much we want to pay, what is needed in terms of time and resources and what we get for it. That was just as true under Brown and Blair as under the Tories, incidentally. Many of the problems we have now are because they were too timid to make the really difficult calls - on power generation, transport and communication links, taxation, spending and government remit - at a time when they were both very popular and had the financial room to do so.

    Thing is, it seems unlikely in light of this Labour are going to offer that.

    Equally, we can now say for certain that Truss not only won't offer it, but is actively lying to us about the situation we're in, apparently without realising she's more transparent than the Emperor's New Clothes.
    Enormous tax rises on the very wealthy, moderate tax rises on the wealthy, no tax rises on those in the middle, modest tax cuts for the lowest earners.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,522
    DavidL said:

    So after all the excitment of Italy (who may have a new government in a month or so) is there any exit polling in the Donbas to look forward to? Could be a close one.

    If Putin has any sense, he'll make it a decisive one, 52-48. That would be as decisive as Brexit while being just about plausible enough for his apologists abroad to work with.

    As he doesn't have any sense, it will be a Saddam style result.
  • Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    If cable is the nickname for the pound/dollar rate what is the name for pound/Thai Baht? - I think it should Noodle.

  • PhilPhil Posts: 1,216
    edited September 2022

    rkrkrk said:

    Funny, but I don't agree with it, but a work colleague this morning, when I asked, thought the mini-budget was pretty good and would lead to the government having to undertake significant spending cuts.

    "Mainly the bloated NHS I hope" he said, before remarking that he considered the NHS to be hugely overburdened with management staff who could easily be cut for huge savings in spending.

    The chap is a senior manager and been in accountancy for fourty years..... I wasn't totally taken by his argument.

    Could he be right?

    According to the published figures, the NHS spends a smaller proportion on management than many other health services. Especially the United States!
    I think it was Dr Foxy who pointed out last week that many of the people titled manager also had health professional jobs.
    Some of the people I read (Andy Cowper etc.) are pretty confident the NHS is underspending on managers... that more are needed to drive efficiency gains, redesign services etc.

    Whether that's true or not - I am pretty confident that the pressures on the service far outweigh any easy low-hanging fruit on spending cuts.
    I suspect it is true. I've heard numerous times about doctors and senior nurses spending a considerable chunk of their time doing administration and management tasks that could be picked up by dedicated admin staff.

    Step 1: Sack a bunch of admin staff on £20k
    Step 2: Get their work done by doctors on £70k using up 25-40% of their time
    Step 3: Wonder why the outcomes are getting worse against money spent.
    Step 4: Look at options to decrease non-medical-staff spend
    Step 5: Return to Step 1
    My experience of the US healthcare system is that the NHS is incredibly efficient by comparison. Quite normal to get billed separately by 5 or 6 different people for the same procedure, each providing a detailed breakdown of the costs and required copay. Each had to be paid for by cheque. Sometimes the required copay was about the same as the cost of the postage involved.
    Perhaps the major reason the US healthcare system is the most expensive on the planet is the incredible amount of bureaucracy involved.

    It’s also one of the reasons it’s politically very difficult to fix: any change to the system that eliminates this extra bureaucracy instantly puts 5% of the US population out of work. That 5% is not equipped to do anything else either - they’re specialists in navigating the US healthcare system as currently constructed.

    (5% is a rough guess, based on the difference in proportional GDP spent of healthcare by the US vs the most expensive EU healthcare systems.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    If cable is the nickname for the pound/dollar rate what is the name for pound/Thai Baht? - I think it should Noodle.

    “Short Time”
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 4,897
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.

    If you want to see a currency in hysterical trouble, rather than this recent mild turbulence in the £, look at the performance of the Turkish Lira against sterling in the last decade


    Looks like something of a rally there on the RHS? What's caused that, I wonder? :innocent:
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 6,735
    edited September 2022
    kinabalu said:

    In more Levelling Up news - Doncaster Airport to close.

    Carlisle Airport closed to scheduled flights (guess which two regular destinations out of Southend, Belfast and Ulan Batur) in 2020 and have never restarted.

    Cumbria has 6 constituencies, four of which are fairly natural Labour seats (Workington, Barrow, Carlisle, Copeland), currently holding none. More levelling up.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,574
    kinabalu said:

    In more Levelling Up news - Doncaster Airport to close.

    Have they not heard that HS2b has been cancelled beyond East Midlands?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,788
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    So after all the excitment of Italy (who may have a new government in a month or so) is there any exit polling in the Donbas to look forward to? Could be a close one.

    If Putin has any sense, he'll make it a decisive one, 52-48. That would be as decisive as Brexit while being just about plausible enough for his apologists abroad to work with.

    As he doesn't have any sense, it will be a Saddam style result.
    The proportion of these oblasts where the votes can even be extracted (with the help of a gun) is diminishing quite rapidly. Although there hasn't been the kind of progress that we saw 2 weeks ago near Kharkiv the Russians are really struggling to hold a clear line in the east and more and more territory is being liberated. Something like 600km2 in the last week or so.
  • Election maps uk has revised his hint about tonights redfield from very spicy to spicy as the Labour fan boys were convinced it was the long awaited 20 pointer. It isnt, he says. 13 pointer, biggest lab lead with them yet is my prediction

    I'm more interested in the absolute size of Labour's share than the lead. Yesterday was, I think, the first time Labour has reached 45% in any poll of recent times. If tonight's poll is very close to that, it would suggest Labour is becoming more popular and Tories should worry. If it's back around 40%, the 45% would be an outlier.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    The Bank of England is understood to be preparing an intervention after the pound crashed to an all-time low against the dollar.

    The Bank is expected to issue a statement as soon as today amid mounting pressure on Governor Andrew Bailey for an intervention to help shore up the economy.

    This could be a verbal intervention to calm markets or, in a more extreme case, an unscheduled increase in interest rates – which were raised to 2.25pc just last week.

    It is understood that a statement today is probable, but not definite. The Bank declined to comment on the nature of any intervention.

    Torygraaf
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,850

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    PeterM said:

    Heathener said:

    If anything the Queen's death helped Liz Truss by (allegedly) uniting the country and deflecting away from her ineptitude.

    Nothing was going to cause a Conservative poll lead. Truss is inept and a liability.

    As for the budget: the stupidest for half a century.

    The UK is in trouble. The tories even more so.

    The world is in trouble. The Fed are torching everything. Once our turn is over its back to mudering the Euro.
    OECD growth estimates out today for 2023 show Germany dying in agony.
    Paris on the eve of war but I forgot my wallet
    Goodnight Vienna etc
    Something has to give. Then everything will.
    Woolie predicts the econopocalypse coming this winter/spring
    Also how will all this pain impact the support for the ukraine war as it grinds on through the winter
    I think the next development is that Russia will officially declare war on Ukraine at the start of next week. The referenda occurring & Ukranian control of Zaporizhia pretty much guarantee it.
    I agree as to Russia declaring war. It's totally a ridiculous convoluted thought process given that Ukraine has made repeated strikes inside Russia (never mind Crimea) without Russia declaring war.
    Russia will declare war against whom? It would need to find a way to confine it to Ukraine and not any of the countries helping Ukraine, for fear of escalating Nato involvement. Colour me sceptical.
    Ukraine.
  • MISTY said:

    The market movement everybody may be missing could be European and UK gas futures, which are getting absolutely slotted yet again.

    The more the price falls, the less the UK government has to borrow.

    Andrew Neill pointed out the GBP150bn borrowing figure is based on gas futures when they were close to the absolute high - they are much lower now.

    Maybe. The problem is that market confidence in this government's fiscal responsibility is non-existent. The assumption, encouraged by the Chancellor's own comments, is that higher borrowing levels will be achieved with further unfunded tax cuts in the budget later this year.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,649
    edited September 2022

    Election maps uk has revised his hint about tonights redfield from very spicy to spicy as the Labour fan boys were convinced it was the long awaited 20 pointer. It isnt, he says. 13 pointer, biggest lab lead with them yet is my prediction

    I'm more interested in the absolute size of Labour's share than the lead. Yesterday was, I think, the first time Labour has reached 45% in any poll of recent times. If tonight's poll is very close to that, it would suggest Labour is becoming more popular and Tories should worry. If it's back around 40%, the 45% would be an outlier.
    There have been 7 polls since the 45% fieldwork, range 39 to 42
  • geoffw said:

    What should I do if I consider this a £-buying opportunity?

    Pour in every penny you have. You will likely lose the lot, but with the economy on the slide, every little helps
  • IshmaelZ said:

    The Bank of England is understood to be preparing an intervention after the pound crashed to an all-time low against the dollar.

    The Bank is expected to issue a statement as soon as today amid mounting pressure on Governor Andrew Bailey for an intervention to help shore up the economy.

    This could be a verbal intervention to calm markets or, in a more extreme case, an unscheduled increase in interest rates – which were raised to 2.25pc just last week.

    It is understood that a statement today is probable, but not definite. The Bank declined to comment on the nature of any intervention.

    Torygraaf

    I think a verbal intervention is by far the most likely. The markets aren't looking for an instant hike, they are looking for reassurance that in the medium term, the UK hasn't completely lost the plot.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    MISTY said:

    The market movement everybody may be missing could be European and UK gas futures, which are getting absolutely slotted yet again.

    The more the price falls, the less the UK government has to borrow.

    Andrew Neill pointed out the GBP150bn borrowing figure is based on gas futures when they were close to the absolute high - they are much lower now.

    Maybe. The problem is that market confidence in this government's fiscal responsibility is non-existent. The assumption, encouraged by the Chancellor's own comments, is that higher borrowing levels will be achieved with further unfunded tax cuts in the budget later this year.
    The market's confidence would have been shattered far earlier if Bailey had not printed billions to buy Sunak's furlough bonds. He is now selling those bonds.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438
    I’m on one of my favourite train lines in the world. Truro to Falmouth. Tiny little stations. Beautiful girl students from the uni. Woodland and creeks

    The troubled world seems a long way away
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    IshmaelZ said:

    The Bank of England is understood to be preparing an intervention after the pound crashed to an all-time low against the dollar.

    The Bank is expected to issue a statement as soon as today amid mounting pressure on Governor Andrew Bailey for an intervention to help shore up the economy.

    This could be a verbal intervention to calm markets or, in a more extreme case, an unscheduled increase in interest rates – which were raised to 2.25pc just last week.

    It is understood that a statement today is probable, but not definite. The Bank declined to comment on the nature of any intervention.

    Torygraaf

    Any intervention like that would only make matter worse.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,308

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    [snip]
    Would be nice to see that 45% transform into 43% at £100,000 with no clawback of allowances though...

    Can we make @eek Chancellor please, he seems to have a much better plan than either the government or the opposition.
    Hey that's my policy!
    Actually even 45% from £100K without the clawback of allowances would be a big improvement.
    Or spread the claw back so that the marginal rate is 45% from £100K.
  • Truss going in 2022 down to 19 on Betfair. 21 on Ladbrokes.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,294
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.

    If you want to see a currency in hysterical trouble, rather than this recent mild turbulence in the £, look at the performance of the Turkish Lira against sterling in the last decade


    It was just a joke about your level of excitement. When motivated I carry out tasks at 100mph, but I suspect I have nothing on you. Nice to see though, although a recipe for an early grave, but as you want to see all the 80+ terminated I'm guessing that isn't an issue for you.

    There are some careers you and I should avoid though. Don't think either of us is cut out to be an airline pilot. 99.9% boredom and then we would get all too excited when it all goes pearshaped.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,850

    IshmaelZ said:

    The Bank of England is understood to be preparing an intervention after the pound crashed to an all-time low against the dollar.

    The Bank is expected to issue a statement as soon as today amid mounting pressure on Governor Andrew Bailey for an intervention to help shore up the economy.

    This could be a verbal intervention to calm markets or, in a more extreme case, an unscheduled increase in interest rates – which were raised to 2.25pc just last week.

    It is understood that a statement today is probable, but not definite. The Bank declined to comment on the nature of any intervention.

    Torygraaf

    I think a verbal intervention is by far the most likely. The markets aren't looking for an instant hike, they are looking for reassurance that in the medium term, the UK hasn't completely lost the plot.
    An instant hike would be completely counterproductive as it would send a panic signal out. Verbal signalling heavily odds on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,715


    I suspect it is true. I've heard numerous times about doctors and senior nurses spending a considerable chunk of their time doing administration and management tasks that could be picked up by dedicated admin staff.

    Step 1: Sack a bunch of admin staff on £20k
    Step 2: Get their work done by doctors on £70k using up 25-40% of their time
    Step 3: Wonder why the outcomes are getting worse against money spent.
    Step 4: Look at options to decrease non-medical-staff spend
    Step 5: Return to Step 1

    Doctors and senior nurses spend a ludicrous amount of their time doing admin (at which they are not very good), and even more time scrabbling about trying to compensate for failures in admin. It is most definitely true that we need more, and better, and better paid, managers in the NHS, but there is also the huge problem that doctors won't let them manage. It's an extremely difficult issue to address within the current NHS structure; I suspect that it won't improve unless we finally get a complete restructuring which brings private companies much more into the frame in supplying services. Unfortunately that's not looking likely at the moment.
    I think the NHS needs competent administrators rather than managers. Administrators actually help the clinical workload, while managers...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,438
    PERRANAWORTHAL
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,819
    edited September 2022

    kinabalu said:

    In more Levelling Up news - Doncaster Airport to close.

    Have they not heard that HS2b has been cancelled beyond East Midlands?
    This is at least partially a local issue. Peel have been charging a fortune for landing fees.

    Given the plan will now be to develop the entire site, there's some thought that this closure might not be entirely an accident, although I can't say I've seen the books.

    Denying a new road (link to the M18) was needed, then lobbying for council taxpayers to pay for one once the airport was operational was good business too...
  • Pulpstar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The Bank of England is understood to be preparing an intervention after the pound crashed to an all-time low against the dollar.

    The Bank is expected to issue a statement as soon as today amid mounting pressure on Governor Andrew Bailey for an intervention to help shore up the economy.

    This could be a verbal intervention to calm markets or, in a more extreme case, an unscheduled increase in interest rates – which were raised to 2.25pc just last week.

    It is understood that a statement today is probable, but not definite. The Bank declined to comment on the nature of any intervention.

    Torygraaf

    I think a verbal intervention is by far the most likely. The markets aren't looking for an instant hike, they are looking for reassurance that in the medium term, the UK hasn't completely lost the plot.
    An instant hike would be completely counterproductive as it would send a panic signal out. Verbal signalling heavily odds on.
    Agreed verbal intervention much more likely. But the markets will expect a PROPER rate increase at the next meeting.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 2,778
    People at work are using the lunch break to work out if they should re-mortgage.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,294
    Leon said:

    PERRANAWORTHAL

    That was uncalled for.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,061
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.

    If you want to see a currency in hysterical trouble, rather than this recent mild turbulence in the £, look at the performance of the Turkish Lira against sterling in the last decade


    Is this the best the Tory loyalist(s) can come up with?

    "But what about the Turkish lira?"
  • MISTY said:

    The market movement everybody may be missing could be European and UK gas futures, which are getting absolutely slotted yet again.

    The more the price falls, the less the UK government has to borrow.

    Andrew Neill pointed out the GBP150bn borrowing figure is based on gas futures when they were close to the absolute high - they are much lower now.

    Maybe. The problem is that market confidence in this government's fiscal responsibility is non-existent. The assumption, encouraged by the Chancellor's own comments, is that higher borrowing levels will be achieved with further unfunded tax cuts in the budget later this year.
    Good. Last Friday should only be a starting point for reform, not the end point.

    Increasing allowances by inflation, and tackling cliff edge rates would be a good place to go next.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    The Bank of England is understood to be preparing an intervention after the pound crashed to an all-time low against the dollar.

    The Bank is expected to issue a statement as soon as today amid mounting pressure on Governor Andrew Bailey for an intervention to help shore up the economy.

    This could be a verbal intervention to calm markets or, in a more extreme case, an unscheduled increase in interest rates – which were raised to 2.25pc just last week.

    It is understood that a statement today is probable, but not definite. The Bank declined to comment on the nature of any intervention.

    Torygraaf

    I think a verbal intervention is by far the most likely. The markets aren't looking for an instant hike, they are looking for reassurance that in the medium term, the UK hasn't completely lost the plot.
    An instant hike would be completely counterproductive as it would send a panic signal out. Verbal signalling heavily odds on.
    Depends what The Markets are expecting; worst of all would be verbal reassurance followed by freefall followed by hike. Might be better to go big and go early with a 100 bp hike. Markets now expect 4.25% by November, so we need to get on with it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,000

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:


    No, it's the presentation of it as a tax cut which will result in significantly more economic growth. That's the issue. If they had just done it and said "yeah fuck off poor people, we want to help our rich mates" it would have probably been fine as well. It's that they have gone on TV and defended it as a measure which will push up trend growth rates which has got everyone in the City scratching their heads and questioning whether the top team really understands how the economy functions. That's where the credibility gap is coming from.

    Yes, and I think the other thing which makes it clear that the government has completely lost its marbles is the lack of any attention to the spending side. In that sense, Kwarteng was right when he claimed this wasn't a budget: in a budget, you look at spending, tax revenues and borrowing, as a whole. It's abundantly clear that there are going to be big spending increases, even if just to match inflation - everywhere you look, you can see enormous pressures. The fact that Kwarteng doesn't seem to think that any of these pressures are worth mentioning is hardly conducive to confidence.
    Yes, where are the spending cuts? Osborne proposed a huge round of spending restraint and real terms cuts for 4 years which won market credibility for a nation that was on the brink of this situation. Rishi is going to have to come in and do the same.
    Respect democracy, Rishi lost the election fair and square, the Tories have made their choice. Liz and Kwasi need to do what they believe in and if it works, great. If it doesn't, then it will be up to Labour to sort out, not Rishi.
    Democracy - we voted for MPs, if they choose to boot Truss out* then that's their democratic right. I've little interest in who a fringe group of fruitcakes, loons and closet racists** choose as their party leader, if they want Truss as party leader that's fine with me.

    *they won't, or at least not for some time - look how long it took for the required number to write to Brady over Johnson; even then the cowards didn't have the guts to vote him out

    **a surprisingly large minority, per the leadership vote, actually are none of these, so apologies to them
    Yep. Spot on. Truss only remains PM as long as a majority of the MPs want her there. It really is entirely in their hands to decide just how far along this path they are willing to let her go.

    The obvious point at which to make that decision is the next opportunity to vote on a finance bill. Not sure when that is going to be but I hold a faint hope they will vote on the substantive issue rather than just along party lines.
    Absolutely. It is entirely right that if people realise a huge mistake has been made with a vote then they should be allowed to review the decision and vote again for a different outcome. No matter how recently their original vote was.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,592
    DavidL said:

    Ok, Sterling is now up against the Euro (by all of 0.01), level against the yen and half a percent down against a rampant dollar. As you were.

    I’d wait to see what happens with interest rates (and then after), if I were you.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,308

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    The problem with that - and I say this as somebody who wouldn't need a lot of convincing to vote Labour - is it's very difficult to see how we don't have austerity from the mess we're in.

    Public finances are creaking. Interest levels are soaring. We need to get the deficit under control so we can begin to deal with the latter problem, but even if we stop adding to it tomorrow, for the next several years we will be spending as much on debt interest as on defence, education and transport combined.

    Well, that's got to be paid for. How? Tax rises are one way, and they're going to have to be part of it one way or another. But unless we have such enormous tax rises that they are in themselves a form of austerity then we're going to need to cut spending pretty dramatically as well.

    So I'm doubtful about her claims.

    What this country has needed for years, and not had, is an honest conversation about what things cost, how much we want to pay, what is needed in terms of time and resources and what we get for it. That was just as true under Brown and Blair as under the Tories, incidentally. Many of the problems we have now are because they were too timid to make the really difficult calls - on power generation, transport and communication links, taxation, spending and government remit - at a time when they were both very popular and had the financial room to do so.

    Thing is, it seems unlikely in light of this Labour are going to offer that.

    Equally, we can now say for certain that Truss not only won't offer it, but is actively lying to us about the situation we're in, apparently without realising she's more transparent than the Emperor's New Clothes.
    Enormous tax rises on the very wealthy, moderate tax rises on the wealthy, no tax rises on those in the middle, modest tax cuts for the lowest earners.
    My economic plan:
    1. Root and branch simplification of income tax, incorporating NI and removing cliff edges. Simplify, simplify, simplify. Pensioners pay a bit more because of incorporation of NI.
    2. Wealth tax of 1% (similar to IHT except you are not dead) redeemable later against the IHT on your estate. Pay now, die later.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,850
    Eabhal said:

    People at work are using the lunch break to work out if they should re-mortgage.

    First Direct app and website has crashed.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,592

    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    PeterM said:

    Stocky said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:


    No, it's the presentation of it as a tax cut which will result in significantly more economic growth. That's the issue. If they had just done it and said "yeah fuck off poor people, we want to help our rich mates" it would have probably been fine as well. It's that they have gone on TV and defended it as a measure which will push up trend growth rates which has got everyone in the City scratching their heads and questioning whether the top team really understands how the economy functions. That's where the credibility gap is coming from.

    Yes, and I think the other thing which makes it clear that the government has completely lost its marbles is the lack of any attention to the spending side. In that sense, Kwarteng was right when he claimed this wasn't a budget: in a budget, you look at spending, tax revenues and borrowing, as a whole. It's abundantly clear that there are going to be big spending increases, even if just to match inflation - everywhere you look, you can see enormous pressures. The fact that Kwarteng doesn't seem to think that any of these pressures are worth mentioning is hardly conducive to confidence.
    Yes, where are the spending cuts? Osborne proposed a huge round of spending restraint and real terms cuts for 4 years which won market credibility for a nation that was on the brink of this situation. Rishi is going to have to come in and do the same.
    Respect democracy, Rishi lost the election fair and square, the Tories have made their choice. Liz and Kwasi need to do what they believe in and if it works, great. If it doesn't, then it will be up to Labour to sort out, not Rishi.
    No, it won't get that far after the weekend of turmoil. If Liz and Kwasi can't turn it around within the next few days and push sterling back up and gilt rates down the Tory MPs will move to dump them and I think Rishi becomes leader without a member vote.
    Sunak has just lost a membership vote. If there is to be a coronation it won't be Sunak. Choosing a leader without a membership vote is one thing; choosing one that has been put to the vote only to lose it is another.
    At this rate the conservatives will soon be changing leaders every day...maybe they can give all their mps a go
    I was hypothesising - I don't think Truss is going anywhere. Al least not before she loses the next GE badly.
    So we need to put up or shut up?
    Put up - basically yes - only the CP can change leader as we know. Shut up ..... that's a different matter!

    At least Johnson has gone. That's what you wanted I think??
    The assumption was that the Tories might have learned something from having put a clueless clown in office the first time?
    They have though.

    There's a valid theory that every new PM tends to be an overreaction to the flaws of the last PM. That works here too.

    The last PM was someone who didn't believe in anything, except how to further his own career, someone who believed in nothing and put himself first. The new PM now is the polar opposite, an ideologue who is doing what others dislike as she genuinely thinks its the right thing to do and is putting her ideology first.

    Whether you like it or not, its a significant change.
    Yes, you’re right that the clown would probably have u-turned at least twice already, whereas Truss is renowned among officials for never letting go of anything, and probably sees herself as MrsT incarnate, destined to stick to these policies regardless of the fallout.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,000
    NOTICE:

    Can I please ask that people download an app or use their preferred one in order to track tick-by-tick movements of GBP.

    It is getting hugely tiresome to have posts which declaim: "$1.070456 now!!!" or somesuch every few minutes. We can all access such information and we don't want PB to become a live GBP-USD ticker tape.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,850
    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.

    If you want to see a currency in hysterical trouble, rather than this recent mild turbulence in the £, look at the performance of the Turkish Lira against sterling in the last decade


    Is this the best the Tory loyalist(s) can come up with?

    "But what about the Turkish lira?"
    We'll get a whole load of "I survived 15%" next.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    Eabhal said:

    People at work are using the lunch break to work out if they should re-mortgage.

    First Direct app and website has crashed.
    True dat, Please try again in a few mins. Truly end times.
  • Leon said:

    Beautiful girl students from the uni. Wood

    I have deleted the extraneous words in the above.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,592
    geoffw said:

    What should I do if I consider this a £-buying opportunity?

    If you’re willing to pay for some of my holiday when the opposite happens, I am sure we can come to an arrangement…. ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 46,991
    Pulpstar said:

    Chris said:

    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    £ up 0.5% against the Thai Baht

    Sterling is basically kicking the arse of every currency on earth. A global vote of confidence in Liz “the Necklace” Truss

    @Leon do you do anything in your life calmly.

    If you want to see a currency in hysterical trouble, rather than this recent mild turbulence in the £, look at the performance of the Turkish Lira against sterling in the last decade


    Is this the best the Tory loyalist(s) can come up with?

    "But what about the Turkish lira?"
    We'll get a whole load of "I survived 15%" next.
    I survived 15%; it wasn't fun.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    NOTICE:

    Can I please ask that people download an app or use their preferred one in order to track tick-by-tick movements of GBP.

    It is getting hugely tiresome to have posts which declaim: "$1.070456 now!!!" or somesuch every few minutes. We can all access such information and we don't want PB to become a live GBP-USD ticker tape.

    Did you get your Morrison's Nyetimber? Nicer than cava, but not displacing my current house champagne, was my view.
  • PeterMPeterM Posts: 302
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Ok, Sterling is now up against the Euro (by all of 0.01), level against the yen and half a percent down against a rampant dollar. As you were.

    I’d wait to see what happens with interest rates (and then after), if I were you.
    think announcement of boe statement has stablised sterling...if bailey comes out with his normal waffle sterling could tank again
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,000
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    NOTICE:

    Can I please ask that people download an app or use their preferred one in order to track tick-by-tick movements of GBP.

    It is getting hugely tiresome to have posts which declaim: "$1.070456 now!!!" or somesuch every few minutes. We can all access such information and we don't want PB to become a live GBP-USD ticker tape.

    Did you get your Morrison's Nyetimber? Nicer than cava, but not displacing my current house champagne, was my view.
    Yes. Have it in the fridge now, not opened a bottle - missed my weekend slot so perhaps this Sat. Will report back. Bought a dozen so could be party fizz if it's nothing too special.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,592
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reeves promises no more austerity under Labour

    So not that adult then. Just another politician/liar who claims we can go on borrowing indefinitely.
    Labour are going to put up taxes to pay for that extra spending though, especially for high earners and corporations
    Tsk, paying for things is so 20th Century…
  • Leon said:

    I’m on one of my favourite train lines in the world. Truro to Falmouth. Tiny little stations. Beautiful girl students from the uni. Woodland and creeks

    The troubled world seems a long way away

    You dirty old man...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,979
    When do house prices crash?

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/sep/26/house-sellers-putting-up-prices-despite-rate-rises-and-cost-of-living-crisis

    House sellers have continued to raise their asking prices despite borrowers facing higher interest rates and the cost of living squeeze, data from property portal Rightmove shows.

    The average price of a home coming to market increased by £2,587, or 0.7% month-on-month in September to £367,760, according to the company.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,568
    Nutty Liz and Kwasi's budget going down well then? :D
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 29,163
    Reeves describes CX/PM as gamblers betting with your money. “They’re out of control” & moves to seize ground Tories have held for decades: “Lab is the party of economic responsibility & > this the fear of many Tory MPs (an “existential threat” was how one figure put it to me)
    https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1574362497716363264
This discussion has been closed.