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And so ends the Second Elizabethan age – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
    In 1950s postwar maybe, by then the East End had already started to move in.

    In 1850 however before the War and the tube came Essex was culturally closer to Suffolk and Norfolk than London
  • Wide shot of the Long Walk - there’s a Guardsman waking briskly up the grass having abandoned his horse half way down - looks like a Policeman is holding the reins.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549

    SeanT said:

    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf

    You've been commenting on this for 5 hours. And it feels like 10.
    I’ve just opened my second bottle of bubbles. Fortnum’s version of Roederer

    I reckon the only way to get through this is with endless quite pricey booze. Like Churchill during the blitz
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,257
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
    NZ’s top trading partners are China, Australia, United States of America, Japan and South Korea - as you’d expect from geography.

    It has been the primary aim of NZ foreign policy to remove trade barriers with our neighbours, and it is understood as the very keystone of NZ’s economic success.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    IshmaelZ said:

    Good to be ringing the Sevastopol bell

    What's the Ukr representation today?

    Zelensky's wife I believe was at the funeral today.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Oh, so it's all genetics rather than upbringing, not to mention environment and history? Getting very old fashioned there.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    There aren't many Ipswich fans in this part of N. Essex; plenty of West Ham supporters though.
    There arent many Ipswich fans anywhere tbf
    Have the glory hunters started supporting the mega successful Norwich? Oh, wait …..
    Yeah im not a Norwich fan ;)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,829
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
    And Wellington to London?

    Nowhere is on New Zealand's doorstep (except possibly Australia).

    But Asia is a hell of a lot closer to NZ than Europe is.
    Asia is just as close to Europe as NZ is [to Asia].

    If Aus and NZ can trade with Asia, there's no reason we can't. That's why we should be joining CPTPP etc post-Brexit.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Eabhal said:

    The horse without rider is very American. They do that at their state funerals.

    Just standing by?

    In Ireland when someone gets killed out hunting they process the horse with tack, with the rider's boots backwards in the stirrups, at the funeral. also a US Cavalry thing I understand.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425

    Wide shot of the Long Walk - there’s a Guardsman waking briskly up the grass having abandoned his horse half way down - looks like a Policeman is holding the reins.

    No, that's the Queen's pony. Now riderless.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    There aren't many Ipswich fans in this part of N. Essex; plenty of West Ham supporters though.
    There arent many Ipswich fans anywhere tbf
    There are a few more now I think; they're doing better!
    The Scout League is a little more open to them this season yes
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898

    Looking at the Premiership crowd in Windsor Great Park, Diana's funeral was just a National League turnout.

    Blows Diana's send off out the water tbh
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    jonny83 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Good to be ringing the Sevastopol bell

    What's the Ukr representation today?

    Zelensky's wife I believe was at the funeral today.
    Good
  • Keir really had to make this move, if it gets booed he just further cements himself as the moderate, centrist voice keeping the loons out.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    This must be the single most spectacular event - dedicated to one human being - that i have ever seen
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
    In 1950s postwar maybe, by then the East End had already started to move in.

    In 1850 however before the War and the tube came Essex was culturally closer to Suffolk and Norfolk than London
    What was opinion polling like in 1850, then?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    edited September 2022
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    As well as the Maori there are quite a few South Sea islanders living in New Zealand now.
  • SeanT said:

    I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

    You are free to log on to YouTube. We are a liberal democracy, not North Korea. That’s kinda the point
    That'll be why the peaceful protestor on Edinburgh got arrested, but not the blokes who assaulted him.

    And good to see you back.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    jonny83 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Good to be ringing the Sevastopol bell

    What's the Ukr representation today?

    Zelensky's wife I believe was at the funeral today.
    She was, yes. Looks like Zelensky was invited but felt he couldn't leave the coutnry right now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    To an extent but I think Australian has a higher percentage of those with Irish or Scottish ancestry than New Zealand does and a lower percentage with English ancestry. Australians often have convict ancestry too, less so Kiwis
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
    I knew there was something holding us back!
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Wow what a shot through the gates at Windsor
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Poor corgis. Stuck with Andrew now.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
    Wellington to Shanghai by freighter: 27 days. London to Shanghai 49 days.

    http://www.shiptraffic.net/2001/05/sea-distances-calculator.html

    The point is, we have much better trading options on our doorstep, and have quite deliberately put up barriers. An absurd act of self harm that is already making us poorer.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
    And Wellington to London?

    Nowhere is on New Zealand's doorstep (except possibly Australia).

    But Asia is a hell of a lot closer to NZ than Europe is.
    Asia is just as close to Europe as NZ is [to Asia].

    If Aus and NZ can trade with Asia, there's no reason we can't. That's why we should be joining CPTPP etc post-Brexit.
    I don't disagree with that.

    But at the same time, you do need to recognise the following:

    Asia - and particularly China - has had a voracious appetite for raw materials.
    The primary export of Australia (almost 60% of total exports) is raw materials.
    Australia is the closest large supplier of coal/natural gas/etc to China.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    As well as the Maori there are quite a few South Sea islanders living in New Zealand now.
    Still even combined significantly less than the number with English ancestry living in NZ
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
    I was measuring from Darwin to Nanning. From Sydney it would be a lot further.

    And yes, I take your point that it's closer than any other major market/resource combination for the two, but that doesn't make it close. It's the difference between saying 'Yeltsin was a good President' and 'Yeltsin is a better president than Putin.'
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    Eabhal said:
    Not sure that's how you pronounce Muick from Dimbleby. It's the loch under Lochnagar.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...
    SeanT said:

    This must be the single most spectacular event - dedicated to one human being - that i have ever seen

    Just imagine what Trump's state funeral during his fourth term will be like.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    No hosepipe ban for the lawn in Windsor Castle.unlike parliament Square gardens.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Christiane Amanpour on CNN described the UK as a declining power due in part to Brexit.

    Just thought I’d throw that scrap of meat in.
    CNN lol, they'd know all about declining power
    CNN+ showed their cluelessness about their market. They wasted a colossal amount on it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
    I said New Zealand was the nation in the world most culturally similar to England, not that it was England!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf

    You've been commenting on this for 5 hours. And it feels like 10.
    I’ve just opened my second bottle of bubbles. Fortnum’s version of Roederer

    I reckon the only way to get through this is with endless quite pricey booze. Like Churchill during the blitz

    Gotta be By Appointment

    Mind you Fortnums prolly is
  • If there are so many Brexit opportunities one wonders why Sir Jacob has not been replaced in his post?
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
    And Wellington to London?

    Nowhere is on New Zealand's doorstep (except possibly Australia).

    But Asia is a hell of a lot closer to NZ than Europe is.
    It certainly feels it when you fly to and from New Zealand
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    IshmaelZ said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf

    You've been commenting on this for 5 hours. And it feels like 10.
    I’ve just opened my second bottle of bubbles. Fortnum’s version of Roederer

    I reckon the only way to get through this is with endless quite pricey booze. Like Churchill during the blitz

    Gotta be By Appointment

    Mind you Fortnums prolly is
    You need a second monitor, sir.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
    I said New Zealand was the nation in the world most culturally similar to England, not that it was England!
    No, you didn't. You're fibbing again. You said "More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland." Try reading the first twelve words.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    @Taz

    As things stand CNN is doomed

    Their best rated cable news show gets 700,000 viewers

    So they can do one
  • ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
    I was measuring from Darwin to Nanning. From Sydney it would be a lot further.

    And yes, I take your point that it's closer than any other major market/resource combination for the two, but that doesn't make it close. It's the difference between saying 'Yeltsin was a good President' and 'Yeltsin is a better president than Putin.'
    The point is that it is the closest.
    It is one of Barty’s little conceits that geography doesn’t matter when it comes to trade.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    ...

    SeanT said:

    This must be the single most spectacular event - dedicated to one human being - that i have ever seen

    Just imagine what Trump's state funeral during his fourth term will be like.
    Though that would be mourn like you mean it or you get shot, similar to NK, not a voluntary expression of thanks like the crowds today
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    edited September 2022
    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,425
    Flowers of the Forest current pipe tune
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
    In 1950s postwar maybe, by then the East End had already started to move in.

    In 1850 however before the War and the tube came Essex was culturally closer to Suffolk and Norfolk than London
    Very early in the last century, before World War I, one of my aunts won a prize for her dairy products at the Essex and Herts agricultural show
  • If there are so many Brexit opportunities one wonders why Sir Jacob has not been replaced in his post?

    A hard act to follow I guess. Like when they retired Babe Ruth's jersey.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
    I was measuring from Darwin to Nanning. From Sydney it would be a lot further.

    And yes, I take your point that it's closer than any other major market/resource combination for the two, but that doesn't make it close. It's the difference between saying 'Yeltsin was a good President' and 'Yeltsin is a better president than Putin.'
    The point is that it is the closest.
    It is one of Barty’s little conceits that geography doesn’t matter when it comes to trade.
    Oh yes - there was that row about how it was so much better to close down UK farming and import Jerusalem artichokes or something from WA.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800
    On the whole New Zealand question, Mrs Stodge (who is of the Kiwi persuasion) gets offended when someone calls her Australian based on her accent. She did laugh once when someone on a cruise ship thought she was South African.

    I've been to NZ just three times - my view is Auckland is a more Asian city than I expected while Christchurch was reassuringly British and it's probably true the South Island is closer culturally to the UK than the North which has not only more Asiatic influences but has the majority of both Maori and islanders.

    Distance isn't everything - the time difference between NZ and Australia, Japan, Singapore and China makes it so much easier to conduct business and establish relationships than with the UK where we are currently 11 hours behind (to become 12 in a few days).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Cicero said:

    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.

    And one day, when you and I are long forgot, they will say that they were there.

    Tunes of Glory.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    But surely Essex was Saxon, whereas East Anglia was the territory of the Angles. Edit. Beaten to it by @wooliedyed.
    Running to HY's defence, the Danish Kingdom of East Anglia in 10th century included most of what we now know as Norfolk Suffolk and Essex.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,874
    I hope nobody in the procession is wearing new boots or shoes for the first time today.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    stodge said:

    On the whole New Zealand question, Mrs Stodge (who is of the Kiwi persuasion) gets offended when someone calls her Australian based on her accent. She did laugh once when someone on a cruise ship thought she was South African.

    I've been to NZ just three times - my view is Auckland is a more Asian city than I expected while Christchurch was reassuringly British and it's probably true the South Island is closer culturally to the UK than the North which has not only more Asiatic influences but has the majority of both Maori and islanders.

    Distance isn't everything - the time difference between NZ and Australia, Japan, Singapore and China makes it so much easier to conduct business and establish relationships than with the UK where we are currently 11 hours behind (to become 12 in a few days).

    We are talking culturally the close links between the UK and NZ, even if economically NZ trades more with Asia and the UK trades more with Europe
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
    In 1950s postwar maybe, by then the East End had already started to move in.

    In 1850 however before the War and the tube came Essex was culturally closer to Suffolk and Norfolk than London
    Very early in the last century, before World War I, one of my aunts won a prize for her dairy products at the Essex and Herts agricultural show
    Indeed, as I noted above Essex and Herts was the traditional pairing not Essex and East Anglia.

    HYUFD wants the cachet of moving to “East Anglia” so he is willing on this occasion to ignore history and tradition.

    Some conservative.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Simply fantastic
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Poor corgis. Stuck with Andrew now.

    Plush fur makes them excellent jizz mops.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ...
    Cicero said:

    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.

    If you could turn to ITV in the Baltic States you could get the younger brother too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
    I said New Zealand was the nation in the world most culturally similar to England, not that it was England!
    No, you didn't. You're fibbing again. You said "More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland." Try reading the first twelve words.
    Which is correct, there are more New Zealanders with English ancestry than Scottish ancestry.

    Of course there are also probably more New Zealanders percentage wise with English ancestry than the percentage with English ancestry living in Scotland
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
    I was measuring from Darwin to Nanning. From Sydney it would be a lot further.

    And yes, I take your point that it's closer than any other major market/resource combination for the two, but that doesn't make it close. It's the difference between saying 'Yeltsin was a good President' and 'Yeltsin is a better president than Putin.'
    Hang on:

    It is worth remembering that a lot of what Australia is exporting is low priced commodities. If you are shipping a 20,000 tonne load of coal at $100/tonne (as it used to be), then a single ship is only bringing $2m of coal. (Of course, with current $400 Newcastle coal prices, it's more like $8m, but based on normal prices, it's more like $2m.)

    Shipping times therefore make a massive difference to margins.

    By contrast, if you've got a ship full of luxury cars, then the distance is largely irrelevant.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,062
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.

    And one day, when you and I are long forgot, they will say that they were there.

    Tunes of Glory.
    The service and ceremonial is fine, its the BBC grovel I find rather unappealing.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Cicero said:

    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.

    Fuck off then

    This is OUR day
  • stodge said:

    On the whole New Zealand question, Mrs Stodge (who is of the Kiwi persuasion) gets offended when someone calls her Australian based on her accent. She did laugh once when someone on a cruise ship thought she was South African.

    I've been to NZ just three times - my view is Auckland is a more Asian city than I expected while Christchurch was reassuringly British and it's probably true the South Island is closer culturally to the UK than the North which has not only more Asiatic influences but has the majority of both Maori and islanders.

    Distance isn't everything - the time difference between NZ and Australia, Japan, Singapore and China makes it so much easier to conduct business and establish relationships than with the UK where we are currently 11 hours behind (to become 12 in a few days).

    Our eldest son lived in Christchurch from 2003 to 2015 and our four visits affirm your description of Christchurch
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
    In 1950s postwar maybe, by then the East End had already started to move in.

    In 1850 however before the War and the tube came Essex was culturally closer to Suffolk and Norfolk than London
    Very early in the last century, before World War I, one of my aunts won a prize for her dairy products at the Essex and Herts agricultural show
    Indeed, as I noted above Essex and Herts was the traditional pairing not Essex and East Anglia.

    HYUFD wants the cachet of moving to “East Anglia” so he is willing on this occasion to ignore history and tradition.

    Some conservative.
    Herts is also part of the Eastern region not London or the SE and could be argued to be on the outer edge of East Anglia too.

  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    SeanT said:

    @Taz

    As things stand CNN is doomed

    Their best rated cable news show gets 700,000 viewers

    So they can do one


    My eyebrows lifted the other day when I saw CNN interviewing none other than Robert Cahaly, Head of RCS's favourite US polling firm, Trafalgar.

    They even gave him the airspace to deny he was a republican shill.

    Maybe times they are a-changing.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    But surely Essex was Saxon, whereas East Anglia was the territory of the Angles. Edit. Beaten to it by @wooliedyed.
    Running to HY's defence, the Danish Kingdom of East Anglia in 10th century included most of what we now know as Norfolk Suffolk and Essex.
    Well my first act in that case as Raedwald Restored will be handing Essex as a Christmas present to rump UK
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    I hope nobody in the procession is wearing new boots or shoes for the first time today.

    This bit has felt a bit long for me. Lovely skies over Windsor tho.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    I hope nobody in the procession is wearing new boots or shoes for the first time today.

    I was considering new shoes the other day (as a concept). They're about the only thing that you don't like when they're new.

    A new, well tailored, suit is just heaven. A new shirt needs a little attention, but is then great, and new socks are just a balm.

  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Wow it is the same pall bearers as in London. One more time guys.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    Do hearses have a mega-low gear. Going that slow in mine would wear the break and clutch I think
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf

    You've been commenting on this for 5 hours. And it feels like 10.
    I’ve just opened my second bottle of bubbles. Fortnum’s version of Roederer

    I reckon the only way to get through this is with endless quite pricey booze. Like Churchill during the blitz

    Gotta be By Appointment

    Mind you Fortnums prolly is
    Hah. Berry Bros and a grand cru

    More impressive than my humble refreshment. However I did capture that rainbow over Horseguards last night


  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,898
    Cicero said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.

    And one day, when you and I are long forgot, they will say that they were there.

    Tunes of Glory.
    The service and ceremonial is fine, its the BBC grovel I find rather unappealing.
    Iplayer has a no commentary option. Much better tbh
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Pulpstar said:

    Do hearses have a mega-low gear. Going that slow in mine would wear the break and clutch I think

    A 9 speed Getrag automatic will handle walking pace easily.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
    I said New Zealand was the nation in the world most culturally similar to England, not that it was England!
    Surely Russia is the country culturally most similar to England. Delusions of grandeur, terrible weather, their neighbours all hate them, obsessed with WW2, good at parades, half the population are pissed most of the time... We even have folk on here threatening to invade an independent Scotland and eyeing up the border lands for annexation.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    The old guy with the snooker cue. Is that what gets broken?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
    In 1950s postwar maybe, by then the East End had already started to move in.

    In 1850 however before the War and the tube came Essex was culturally closer to Suffolk and Norfolk than London
    Very early in the last century, before World War I, one of my aunts won a prize for her dairy products at the Essex and Herts agricultural show
    Indeed, as I noted above Essex and Herts was the traditional pairing not Essex and East Anglia.

    HYUFD wants the cachet of moving to “East Anglia” so he is willing on this occasion to ignore history and tradition.

    Some conservative.
    Herts is also part of the Eastern region not London or the SE and could be argued to be on the outer edge of East Anglia too.

    Did you read theology at university? I ask because an old friend of mine lectured in theology. I asked him what his students did after graduation and he said they went into things like marketing because they could closely argue a point that already been done to death elsewhere.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,707
    Looks like it's the same lads on coffin duty as this morning. They're all on triple rum rations after this I expect.
  • Poor corgis. Stuck with Andrew now.

    It's OK they'll be well groomed.
    As long as they're old they'll have nothing to worry about.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    The old guy with the snooker cue. Is that what gets broken?

    If he's the lord chamberlain, yes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    edited September 2022

    The old guy with the snooker cue. Is that what gets broken?

    Expelleriamus!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    MISTY said:

    SeanT said:

    @Taz

    As things stand CNN is doomed

    Their best rated cable news show gets 700,000 viewers

    So they can do one


    My eyebrows lifted the other day when I saw CNN interviewing none other than Robert Cahaly, Head of RCS's favourite US polling firm, Trafalgar.

    They even gave him the airspace to deny he was a republican shill.

    Maybe times they are a-changing.
    @SeanT is right:

    Cable news is dying.

    People watch TikTok and YouTube.

    The last great location it existed was the lobbies of expensive office buildings. But now people waiting in lobbies (and there are far fewer of them too) are on their phones: they're not staring at an expensive flat screens.

    CNN is failing first. But even Fox News is getting killed. Back in 2014/2015, they used to get almost 5m viewers during primetime. Today, on a good day, it's more like 3.5m. And on some days they're floating with the 3m mark.
  • Here is a question for monarchy nerds. The Queen's crown and the King's are different shapes are they not? So do they take the best jewels and put them on Charlie's one, or does he have a completely different one?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691

    The coffin bearers carrying the Queen up those steps were fantastic

    Yes, no easy thing to do. In fact all the military have no very easy task in this.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,720
    I invented a dish for the funeral, a version of bread sauce to go with the roast duck.

    Marmalade sandwich sauce:

    - Milk steeped in onion, cloves, bay leaves and cardamon
    - A spoonful of marmalade
    - White breadcrumbs

    Very nice too - I’d recommend.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Crown jewels sparkling well in the chapel lights.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
    I was measuring from Darwin to Nanning. From Sydney it would be a lot further.

    And yes, I take your point that it's closer than any other major market/resource combination for the two, but that doesn't make it close. It's the difference between saying 'Yeltsin was a good President' and 'Yeltsin is a better president than Putin.'
    Hang on:

    It is worth remembering that a lot of what Australia is exporting is low priced commodities. If you are shipping a 20,000 tonne load of coal at $100/tonne (as it used to be), then a single ship is only bringing $2m of coal. (Of course, with current $400 Newcastle coal prices, it's more like $8m, but based on normal prices, it's more like $2m.)

    Shipping times therefore make a massive difference to margins.

    By contrast, if you've got a ship full of luxury cars, then the distance is largely irrelevant.
    All of which is I'm sure true, but irrelevant.

    You said China 'happens to be very close' to Australia.

    Leaving aside the fact it is relatively closer than any alternative, do you accept, objectively, that that isn't the case?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828

    Here is a question for monarchy nerds. The Queen's crown and the King's are different shapes are they not? So do they take the best jewels and put them on Charlie's one, or does he have a completely different one?

    I think they will use the same crown? St Edwards for the coronation, imperial for other state occasions.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
    Presumably the same for Australians?
    He's completely wrong anyway. England is the one with most English ancestry.
    I said New Zealand was the nation in the world most culturally similar to England, not that it was England!
    Surely Russia is the country culturally most similar to England. Delusions of grandeur, terrible weather, their neighbours all hate them, obsessed with WW2, good at parades, half the population are pissed most of the time... We even have folk on here threatening to invade an independent Scotland and eyeing up the border lands for annexation.
    Hardly, we have not just invaded Ireland have we, we are a far wealthier nation than Russia, Heads of State from all over the world have attended the Queen's funeral, most of them hate Putin and we don't have average -8 C or worse temperatures in January
  • He may be the world’s most powerful man but the apparent late arrival of the US president, Joe Biden, and his wife, Jill, was not allowed to disrupt the finely tuned choreography of the late Queen’s funeral.

    Rather than being ushered immediately to their seats on their arrival at Westminster Abbey, the first couple, aged 79 and 71, had to be gently told they would need to stand and wait as a procession of George and Victoria Cross-holders went ahead of them down the nave of the abbey.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/19/joe-biden-forced-to-wait-for-seat-after-apparent-late-arrival-at-queens-funeral
  • Beautiful singing by the cantor there
  • rcs1000 said:

    MISTY said:

    SeanT said:

    @Taz

    As things stand CNN is doomed

    Their best rated cable news show gets 700,000 viewers

    So they can do one


    My eyebrows lifted the other day when I saw CNN interviewing none other than Robert Cahaly, Head of RCS's favourite US polling firm, Trafalgar.

    They even gave him the airspace to deny he was a republican shill.

    Maybe times they are a-changing.
    @SeanT is right:

    Cable news is dying.

    People watch TikTok and YouTube.

    The last great location it existed was the lobbies of expensive office buildings. But now people waiting in lobbies (and there are far fewer of them too) are on their phones: they're not staring at an expensive flat screens.

    CNN is failing first. But even Fox News is getting killed. Back in 2014/2015, they used to get almost 5m viewers during primetime. Today, on a good day, it's more like 3.5m. And on some days they're floating with the 3m mark.
    And Fox is the one tailoring their content most aggressively to match the worldview of angry bored pensioners, the only people who still watch TV all day.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    I want this to go on forever

    I want the rest of time to be an endless ritual of funeral mourning for the Queen of England, which never quite ends, so that in 2065 she is “slowly proceeding up the great alt.mall of 3/Chengdu, accompanied by the robot pipers of Planet X/beta-55” and we never have to actually confront her actual death
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,928
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
    Well: for a start most of Australia's raw material exports aren't coming from Sydney.

    Natural gas and oil comes from the Northwest Shelf, while Coal comes from Queensland.

    Secondly: a massive mine near the coast is in a fantastic position to export to China.

    If you have coal in Queensland, where do you think the nearest large markets for coal are?

    Likewise, if you are in Guangzhou, where do you think the easiest place to buy coal from is?

    South Africa is a lot further. Ditton Colombia.
    I was measuring from Darwin to Nanning. From Sydney it would be a lot further.

    And yes, I take your point that it's closer than any other major market/resource combination for the two, but that doesn't make it close. It's the difference between saying 'Yeltsin was a good President' and 'Yeltsin is a better president than Putin.'
    Hang on:

    It is worth remembering that a lot of what Australia is exporting is low priced commodities. If you are shipping a 20,000 tonne load of coal at $100/tonne (as it used to be), then a single ship is only bringing $2m of coal. (Of course, with current $400 Newcastle coal prices, it's more like $8m, but based on normal prices, it's more like $2m.)

    Shipping times therefore make a massive difference to margins.

    By contrast, if you've got a ship full of luxury cars, then the distance is largely irrelevant.
    All of which is I'm sure true, but irrelevant.

    You said China 'happens to be very close' to Australia.

    Leaving aside the fact it is relatively closer than any alternative, do you accept, objectively, that that isn't the case?
    Yes. I accept that China isn't very close to Australia.

  • RobD said:

    Here is a question for monarchy nerds. The Queen's crown and the King's are different shapes are they not? So do they take the best jewels and put them on Charlie's one, or does he have a completely different one?

    I think they will use the same crown? St Edwards for the coronation, imperial for other state occasions.
    But doesn't a King's crown not have the dipped bit in the middle?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    TimS said:

    I invented a dish for the funeral, a version of bread sauce to go with the roast duck.

    Marmalade sandwich sauce:

    - Milk steeped in onion, cloves, bay leaves and cardamon
    - A spoonful of marmalade
    - White breadcrumbs

    Very nice too - I’d recommend.

    Keep in handbag for emergencies.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Cicero said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    Just logged on for the committal... Dear God they dug up a Dimbleby for the full on arslikhan... Sovereign, Subjects... the last time... Oh put a sock in it.

    And one day, when you and I are long forgot, they will say that they were there.

    Tunes of Glory.
    The service and ceremonial is fine, its the BBC grovel I find rather unappealing.
    Iplayer has a no commentary option. Much better tbh
    It needs adapting for PB so I can switch off Kjh permanently
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    SeanT said:

    I want this to go on forever

    I want the rest of time to be an endless ritual of funeral mourning for the Queen of England, which never quite ends, so that in 2065 she is “slowly proceeding up the great alt.mall of 3/Chengdu, accompanied by the robot pipers of Planet X/beta-55” and we never have to actually confront her actual death

    You've got through a goodly helping of champers there.
This discussion has been closed.