Boris and Carrie Johnston barging past Theresa and Phillip May, only to be stopped by officials and made to obey the correct order of process. And now he's in full sulk
@HYUFD said “It was a marvellous tribute, both the funeral and procession, to a great woman who was respected in the UK and across the world for her dignity and service as our head of state.
However it was also the last ceremony in Britain which will likely ever be a truly global event and final act of imperial Britain reflecting the Queen being the last monarch of the British Empire.”
Charles and William's and indeed George's coronations and funerals will be big events but they will not be on this scale
Sorry. Mucked up the copy and paste. What I tried to paste was: We have different powers now; soft powers. We should continue to develop them.
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
I think Charles's coronation will be as big as this because:
- Britain does pageantry really well - It's great box office - It's a happy occasion
HIs funeral will be less grand maybe. The procession from the Abbey to Wellington Arch was too long imo. Buck House would have been plenty far enough.
One other thought: Thank God no 'incidents' took place. It never seems to amaze me how brilliant our security forces must be to stop any wackos, terrorists, or foreign agents wreaking havoc on such an obvious occasion.
What pillock had a helicopter for overhead footage making that awful noise when they could have used a drone?
Almost all drones are currently banned over central London and out to Windsor. The CAA sent out a national notification a couple of days ago.
In that case, I withdraw my slur on the broadcasting companies and transfer it to the CAA, who could surely have made an exception for broadcasters and the police.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
No, it would be Caroline Villiers the first daughter of the 9th Earl of Jersey or the 10th Earl of Jersey if we ignore the 'remarriage' stuff of his father
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
What pillock had a helicopter for overhead footage making that awful noise when they could have used a drone?
Almost all drones are currently banned over central London and out to Windsor. The CAA sent out a national notification a couple of days ago.
TV crews have permission surely?
Not sure. It is notable that all the overhead photos in London seem to come from a single source rather than each TV company having separate ones. With so many world leaders there I am not surprised by a blanket ban.
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
I think Charles's coronation will be as big as this because:
- Britain does pageantry really well - It's great box office - It's a happy occasion
HIs funeral will be less grand maybe. The procession from the Abbey to Wellington Arch was too long imo. Buck House would have been plenty far enough.
One other thought: Thank God no 'incidents' took place. It never seems to amaze me how brilliant our security forces must be to stop any wackos, terrorists, or foreign agents wreaking havoc on such an obvious occasion.
It gave more opportunities for the public to see. But the units could have been closed up more to shorten the duration.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
Boris and Carrie Johnston barging past Theresa and Phillip May, only to be stopped by officials and made to obey the correct order of process. And now he's in full sulk
Looks like all three former PM's and spouses there are being asked to wait.
They came into the abbey in exactly the opposite order they processed down the aisle. Not sure why.
I suppose they thought it was most recent first, and it was actually most senior first. Boris looked furious when walking to his seat, doing his 'Rochdale Pioneers avatar' face.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Hopefully the obsequious one has been given immediate early retirement. By order of HMK?
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
No, Katherine Grey's issue were declared illegitimate and her marriage annulled. If we ignore that, then yes
That was all rather impressive and somewhat moving.
The pictures in HD were excellent. The service was excellent. Liz Truss did a great job. Welby could have droned on a little less but that aside, excellent.
Caitlin Moran was dissing Truss within a few seconds of her reading. Because 'edgy'
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Fergal Keane was perfect in the procession to the Abbey, just a couple of brief well-pitched comments.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
No, Katherine Grey's issue were declared illegitimate and her marriage annulled. If we ignore that, then yes
Well, if we ignore that we also have to ignore that Elizabeth was the nominated next sovereign, despite herself being declared illegitimate before Edward religitimated her, and the Succession Act gave her the right to nominate her own successor, which power either she or Cecil used to nominate James.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Fergal Keane was perfect in the procession to the Abbey, just a couple of brief well-pitched comments.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Is\ he the chap who wrote Road of Bones, about Kohima and Imphal?
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
I think Charles's coronation will be as big as this because:
- Britain does pageantry really well - It's great box office - It's a happy occasion
HIs funeral will be less grand maybe. The procession from the Abbey to Wellington Arch was too long imo. Buck House would have been plenty far enough.
One other thought: Thank God no 'incidents' took place. It never seems to amaze me how brilliant our security forces must be to stop any wackos, terrorists, or foreign agents wreaking havoc on such an obvious occasion.
The King's coronation is also going to be smaller than the Queen's and won't have as many heads of state or PMs as the Queen's funeral today. Beyond the Commonwealth realms it will be mainly fellow royals in attendance with other nations mostly just sending Ambassadors. The US will likely send VP Harris not President Biden.
We seem to be calling out a Russian troll despite the fact he's not said anything pro Russian, just that they hate the monarchy.
Is TSE a Russian troll?
No, he's being called out for being a Russian troll as he's a Russian troll.
Dozens of people here are anti-monarchy. The difference is, we're not Russian trolls.
He has been called out as such by many posters on here and I do not recall anyone defending him until now
Well no but you wouldn't defend him because he doesn't agree with your politics.
Just as you called me out for something and then didn't call somebody else out for the same thing, because they agree with what you think.
You're one of the most partisan posters here, you target people for political reasons.
Many across this board call him out and so far you seem to be a lone voice supporting him
And there is nobody on this forum more tribal than yourself when it comes to politics
Go on then, call out @MattW, he did politics during the funeral.
Yet silence from you, because he agrees with your politics.
You are pathetically partisan. I don't pretend.
You clearly were a Boy Scout or something in a past life, you do love to pretend to have authority where none exists. You're the definition of a Karen.
Why did you have to revive this argument onto the new thread?
Because it needed closing off. I will not have Big G doing his usual last word nonsense.
Now we can put it to bed.
Seriously? I thought the whole point of this board was to interact with people, not to reply to them and expect no reply.
Let him have his final say as there are far bigger things to celebrate today
I thought I did politics before and after, and went out in between .
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
No, Katherine Grey's issue were declared illegitimate and her marriage annulled. If we ignore that, then yes
Well, if we ignore that we also have to ignore that Elizabeth was the nominated next sovereign, despite herself being declared illegitimate before Edward religitimated her, and the Succession Act gave her the right to nominate her own successor, which power either she or Cecil used to nominate James.
Rendering this whole discussion moot.
No, the question of Henry's will comes into play in 1603, as that is the point of divergence, therefore the 'alternative line' springs from that moment and the situation at that time.
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
I assume it will now be London Bridge, but before surely it would have been Severn Bridge.
And William would be a Bridge over Troubled Water???
Tay Bridge, like his great-grandmother, would make sense. Or perhaps Menai Bridge or Britannia Bridge.
The Tay Bridge collapsed and killed lots of people. William McGonagle immortalised it in verse worthy of SeanT
Only the first one!
Garden Bridge? He does like plants.
He could really mess with people and use 'Pontcysyllte Aqueduct'. And it's in Wales...
Pontcysyllte literally means 'connecting bridge' - which is a bit obvious because that's what most of them do.
It does, but ironically the name derives from the village of Cysyllte next to it (which means effectively 'crossing').
So even though it means connecting bridge, that's not what it's called.
Yes, there's a much older crossing over the Dee down in the bottom of the valley and the village on the ridge that overlooks it - Froncysyllte - probably predates the aqueduct. Walking the ODP a few years ago I was torn between the "official" route over the old bridge or the more exciting high-level option. I summoned my courage and took the latter.
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
I assume it will now be London Bridge, but before surely it would have been Severn Bridge.
And William would be a Bridge over Troubled Water???
Tay Bridge, like his great-grandmother, would make sense. Or perhaps Menai Bridge or Britannia Bridge.
The Tay Bridge collapsed and killed lots of people. William McGonagle immortalised it in verse worthy of SeanT
Only the first one!
Garden Bridge? He does like plants.
He could really mess with people and use 'Pontcysyllte Aqueduct'. And it's in Wales...
Pontcysyllte literally means 'connecting bridge' - which is a bit obvious because that's what most of them do.
It does, but ironically the name derives from the village of Cysyllte next to it (which means effectively 'crossing').
So even though it means connecting bridge, that's not what it's called.
It's good that William Jessop (the son of my pseudonym) is getting more of his due for the design of Pontcysyllte Aqueduct than he used to. Telford rather 'stole' the fame...
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
Charles's time plus some William might be a bridge from post Imperial nostalgia to something more grounded and forward looking.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Fergal Keane was perfect in the procession to the Abbey, just a couple of brief well-pitched comments.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Is\ he the chap who wrote Road of Bones, about Kohima and Imphal?
Yes, according to Wiki. I have not read it, do you recommend?
That was all rather impressive and somewhat moving.
The pictures in HD were excellent. The service was excellent. Liz Truss did a great job. Welby could have droned on a little less but that aside, excellent.
Service was excellent, Welby pitched it just right, Baroness Scotland read very movingly, Truss did ok but no better than any of us would have done - a bit mechanical tbh but understandable given the situation.
I keep forgetting Liz Truss is actually PM. Fucking amazing really when you think about it.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
No, Katherine Grey's issue were declared illegitimate and her marriage annulled. If we ignore that, then yes
Well, if we ignore that we also have to ignore that Elizabeth was the nominated next sovereign, despite herself being declared illegitimate before Edward religitimated her, and the Succession Act gave her the right to nominate her own successor, which power either she or Cecil used to nominate James.
Rendering this whole discussion moot.
No, the question of Henry's will comes into play in 1603, as that is the point of divergence, therefore the 'alternative line' springs from that moment and the situation at that time.
His will didn't bind Elizabeth, under the terms of his own Succession Act. You might note it didn't bind Edward, who nominated Jane ahead of Mary, but there was the little matter of no popular support or conciliar unanimity as there was with James.
That was all rather impressive and somewhat moving.
The pictures in HD were excellent. The service was excellent. Liz Truss did a great job. Welby could have droned on a little less but that aside, excellent.
Service was excellent, Welby pitched it just right, Baroness Scotland read very movingly, Truss did ok but no better than any of us would have done - a bit mechanical tbh but understandable given the situation.
I keep forgetting Liz Truss is actually PM. Fucking amazing really when you think about it.
Never forget pal. Never forget.
Much like IDS becoming Tory leader after 9/11, Truss becoming PM and Tory leader was completely overshadowed by the Queen's death
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Fergal Keane was perfect in the procession to the Abbey, just a couple of brief well-pitched comments.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Is\ he the chap who wrote Road of Bones, about Kohima and Imphal?
Yes, according to Wiki. I have not read it, do you recommend?
Some years back, and I can't remember the details, so I hesitate to guarantee. But my memory is that I liked it, and I kept it instead of putting it in the Oxfam bag, so it can't have been bad!
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
Charles's time plus some William might be a bridge from post Imperial nostalgia to something more grounded and forward looking.
I never quite understand what is meant by “more grounded and forward looking”.
The whole point of monarchy is pageantry and harking back to our ancestors and the misty foundations of Britain.
An event, long in the planning, said planning meticulously executed down to the last minute, the last detail. The kind of thing we do so well (as do other countries when required) and almost take for granted.
The hint of night time rehearsals through the empty streets give some sense of the work involved by thousands of people each playing their part within the overall.
The obvious parallel, though none of us were around, is the funeral of Victoria in 1901. The assembling of world leaders, the gathering of Princes, Emperors, Kings symbolised the longevity and dominance of one woman - the heir, long waiting, now taking his turn at a time of personal loss and grief.
Given what followed, it's understandable some may be fearful or at least anxious of the uncertainty which the passing of such a symbol of continuity may engender.
That was all rather impressive and somewhat moving.
The pictures in HD were excellent. The service was excellent. Liz Truss did a great job. Welby could have droned on a little less but that aside, excellent.
Service was excellent, Welby pitched it just right, Baroness Scotland read very movingly, Truss did ok but no better than any of us would have done - a bit mechanical tbh but understandable given the situation.
I keep forgetting Liz Truss is actually PM. Fucking amazing really when you think about it.
Never forget pal. Never forget.
Much like IDS becoming Tory leader after 9/11, Truss becoming PM and Tory leader was completely overshadowed by the Queen's death
She will attempt to seize control of the narrative on Friday, but I rather think her chips are already cooked.
Three Queens mourning their father, son, husband - versus one not yet queen looking respectfully somber at here grandmother-in-law's funeral. No comaprison.
That was all rather impressive and somewhat moving.
The pictures in HD were excellent. The service was excellent. Liz Truss did a great job. Welby could have droned on a little less but that aside, excellent.
Service was excellent, Welby pitched it just right, Baroness Scotland read very movingly, Truss did ok but no better than any of us would have done - a bit mechanical tbh but understandable given the situation.
I keep forgetting Liz Truss is actually PM. Fucking amazing really when you think about it.
Never forget pal. Never forget.
Much like IDS becoming Tory leader after 9/11, Truss becoming PM and Tory leader was completely overshadowed by the Queen's death
She will attempt to seize control of the narrative on Friday, but I rather think her chips are already cooked.
On that culinary topic, news already coming back to life. (It's in the Graun front page as I don't want to offend anyone here.)
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
I think Charles's coronation will be as big as this because:
- Britain does pageantry really well - It's great box office - It's a happy occasion
HIs funeral will be less grand maybe. The procession from the Abbey to Wellington Arch was too long imo. Buck House would have been plenty far enough.
One other thought: Thank God no 'incidents' took place. It never seems to amaze me how brilliant our security forces must be to stop any wackos, terrorists, or foreign agents wreaking havoc on such an obvious occasion.
I think the Coronation will be one to watch for symbolic changes that Charles makes. I don't see the imagery of the Orb as representing the Christian World persisting without a different nuance, for example. Especially given the statement to faith leaders we discussed the other day.
I wonder if that will have an emphasis / event added to begin a more collaborative reimagining of the Commonwealth.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Sealed in the coffin with her as per her dying instructions.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Fergal Keane was perfect in the procession to the Abbey, just a couple of brief well-pitched comments.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Huw has stayed with the BBC just for this, l understand. Be off to Hollywood now.
Looks like the mighty Dimbo has picked up the Windsor leg. Safe as houses choice.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
No, Katherine Grey's issue were declared illegitimate and her marriage annulled. If we ignore that, then yes
Well, if we ignore that we also have to ignore that Elizabeth was the nominated next sovereign, despite herself being declared illegitimate before Edward religitimated her, and the Succession Act gave her the right to nominate her own successor, which power either she or Cecil used to nominate James.
Rendering this whole discussion moot.
No, the question of Henry's will comes into play in 1603, as that is the point of divergence, therefore the 'alternative line' springs from that moment and the situation at that time.
His will didn't bind Elizabeth, under the terms of his own Succession Act. You might note it didn't bind Edward, who nominated Jane ahead of Mary, but there was the little matter of no popular support or conciliar unanimity as there was with James.
No, thats right. Henry's will set it as Edward, Mary, Elizabeth, and that is what occured. We know Elizabeth nominated James and history flowed from there so the entire discussion of the alternate line is what if she hadnt and they'd reverted to Henry's will for guidance - at that point, 1603, when Elizabeth dies without naming her heir, the situation would be Katherine Grey and kids had been made illegitimate by a legitimate law of a legitimate heir so we go according to Henry's will to the Stanleys. If we take Henry's will and disregard anything done by his legitimate heirs, the Grey line is followed after Elizabeth
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Sealed in the coffin with her as per her dying instructions.
Having to listen to him while alive would be bad enough, spending a literal eternity in close physical proximity to him would be unbearable.
That was all rather impressive and somewhat moving.
The pictures in HD were excellent. The service was excellent. Liz Truss did a great job. Welby could have droned on a little less but that aside, excellent.
Service was excellent, Welby pitched it just right, Baroness Scotland read very movingly, Truss did ok but no better than any of us would have done - a bit mechanical tbh but understandable given the situation.
I keep forgetting Liz Truss is actually PM. Fucking amazing really when you think about it.
Never forget pal. Never forget.
Much like IDS becoming Tory leader after 9/11, Truss becoming PM and Tory leader was completely overshadowed by the Queen's death
But Truss overshadowed Boris today despite his trying to barge into Westminster Abbey ahead of May.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Sealed in the coffin with her as per her dying instructions.
Mr. Tubbs, wasn't Henry VII linked via the Beauforts, though?
I mean, if William the Bastard counts it seems churlish to criticise Henry VII's royal links.
Apparently some random woman in Yorkshire who works in dairy business would now be queen if the entirely legal stipulations in Henry VIII's will regarding succession had been observed.
This was brought up on here a couple of days but someone said it would be, I think, the Earl of Jersey.
It was wooliedyed said that, but it isn't correct. The actual collateral heir of Katherine Grey is the Duke of Northumberland.
No, Katherine Grey's issue were declared illegitimate and her marriage annulled. If we ignore that, then yes
Well, if we ignore that we also have to ignore that Elizabeth was the nominated next sovereign, despite herself being declared illegitimate before Edward religitimated her, and the Succession Act gave her the right to nominate her own successor, which power either she or Cecil used to nominate James.
Rendering this whole discussion moot.
No, the question of Henry's will comes into play in 1603, as that is the point of divergence, therefore the 'alternative line' springs from that moment and the situation at that time.
His will didn't bind Elizabeth, under the terms of his own Succession Act. You might note it didn't bind Edward, who nominated Jane ahead of Mary, but there was the little matter of no popular support or conciliar unanimity as there was with James.
No, thats right. Henry's will set it as Edward, Mary, Elizabeth, and that is what occured. We know Elizabeth nominated James and history flowed from there so the entire discussion of the alternate line is what if she hadnt and they'd reverted to Henry's will for guidance - at that point, 1603, when Elizabeth dies without naming her heir, the situation would be Katherine Grey and kids had been made illegitimate by a legitimate law of a legitimate heir so we go according to Henry's will to the Stanleys. If we take Henry's will and disregard anything done by his legitimate heirs, the Grey line is followed after Elizabeth
Which doesn't necessarily lead to the Earl of Jersey. It might easily have passed down the line of the Earl of Derby given female heirs were generally allowed in all default of male heirs. To take the most obvious example, Henry VII's claim, such as it was, came through his mother, but even though she was alive for all of his reign she was never queen. Ironically, she was made regent only after his death to oversee the transition to Henry VIII.
Today has been an amazing spectacle even the most cynical should accept and it has shown our country at its best
I expect it has benefitted the monarchy and the union
The coronation next year will be another spectacular event
It will but it will not be on this scale, certainly not globally. Nor on the scale of the Queen's own coronation in 1953.
She was truly our last imperial monarch. Charles, William and George will be monarchs more in the style of the Scandinavian, Dutch and Spanish monarchies
Enough of your declinist drivel
Yes, the Empire has gone. It went 50 years ago, and probably not before time
And yet we still live in a remarkable country, which influences the world in innumerable ways, far and beyond military or economic power
Indeed: As the free world faces Putin and China my guess is that a nation like Great Britain will gain in symbolic power: as we embody incredible tradition plus ongoing freedom. As we see here
People admire Britain because we are free and fair. And ancient. Not because we have nuclear missiles. Learn this
We do but when the Queen came to the throne we were still just about a superpower alongside the US and USSR with Churchill as PM and we still had a large Empire.
Now we are a middle ranking power only, the only true global superpowers now are the USA still and China.
People also admire Sweden, Ireland, Canada etc but none of them are superpowers either
No, the steam had gone out of it by then. In the 1930's arguably we were still a superpower, but WW2 finished us off.
We were still certainly top 3 in the early 1950s, now we are not even if still top 10
Not even top 10?
You sir are utterly ridiculous. There is no real list of top nations, but in any objective measurement normally we would feature quite rightly in the top 5, let alone the top 10.
Major powers now on the planet would be just 2 - USA and China, then the UK would feature near the top of other large powers alongside such nations as Germany, France and Japan.
It's ok my lump has subsided now. But let's see what happens with the Windsor bit. Amazing spectacle and well covered by the Beeb so far. One gaping hole in proceedings though. A person who really should have been part of it but was inexplicably missing. Whither the Witchell?
Fergal Keane was perfect in the procession to the Abbey, just a couple of brief well-pitched comments.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Huw has stayed with the BBC just for this, l understand. Be off to Hollywood now.
Looks like the mighty Dimbo has picked up the Windsor leg. Safe as houses choice.
Stunning display by the Church, the Royal family, the Military and by London. We will not see the like again.
Quite. Charles's funeral should deliberately undershoot this one.
Wonder what London Bridge is for him. Mornington Crescent?
Weird to think that almost imminently, if not already, plans are being laid for London Bridge 2
It won't be the same, today's event was epic both here and globally.
Charles' funeral will likely be not much grander than that for the King of Sweden or the King of Spain
It will be far grander than those, albeit not as grand perhaps as this one. He will likely still be king of many realms and Britain still a major power
It won't be that much grander. Globally Charles will be King of far less realms than the Queen was when she was crowned and that is assuming no more get their own heads of state.
Britain is now only a midrank power, we were top 3 in 1953 when the Queen had her coronation. The Queen also reigned for 70 years and therefore also had a huge legacy, Charles will reign for 10 to 20 years at most
I think Charles's coronation will be as big as this because:
- Britain does pageantry really well - It's great box office - It's a happy occasion
HIs funeral will be less grand maybe. The procession from the Abbey to Wellington Arch was too long imo. Buck House would have been plenty far enough.
One other thought: Thank God no 'incidents' took place. It never seems to amaze me how brilliant our security forces must be to stop any wackos, terrorists, or foreign agents wreaking havoc on such an obvious occasion.
I think the Coronation will be one to watch for symbolic changes that Charles makes. I don't see the imagery of the Orb as representing the Christian World persisting without a different nuance, for example. Especially given the statement to faith leaders we discussed the other day.
I wonder if that will have an emphasis / event added to begin a more collaborative reimagining of the Commonwealth.
Indeed, Charles will also likely be the last British monarch to head the Commonwealth. William has suggested he will not head it, it could be rotated amongst Commonwealth heads of state instead
Today has been an amazing spectacle even the most cynical should accept and it has shown our country at its best
I expect it has benefitted the monarchy and the union
The coronation next year will be another spectacular event
It will but it will not be on this scale, certainly not globally. Nor on the scale of the Queen's own coronation in 1953.
She was truly our last imperial monarch. Charles, William and George will be monarchs more in the style of the Scandinavian, Dutch and Spanish monarchies
Enough of your declinist drivel
Yes, the Empire has gone. It went 50 years ago, and probably not before time
And yet we still live in a remarkable country, which influences the world in innumerable ways, far and beyond military or economic power
Indeed: As the free world faces Putin and China my guess is that a nation like Great Britain will gain in symbolic power: as we embody incredible tradition plus ongoing freedom. As we see here
People admire Britain because we are free and fair. And ancient. Not because we have nuclear missiles. Learn this
We do but when the Queen came to the throne we were still just about a superpower alongside the US and USSR with Churchill as PM and we still had a large Empire.
Now we are a middle ranking power only, the only true global superpowers now are the USA still and China.
People also admire Sweden, Ireland, Canada etc but none of them are superpowers either
No, the steam had gone out of it by then. In the 1930's arguably we were still a superpower, but WW2 finished us off.
We were still certainly top 3 in the early 1950s, now we are not even if still top 10
Not even top 10?
You sir are utterly ridiculous. There is no real list of top nations, but in any objective measurement normally we would feature quite rightly in the top 5, let alone the top 10.
Major powers now on the planet would be just 2 - USA and China, then the UK would feature near the top of other large powers alongside such nations as Germany, France and Japan.
I said we are not now top 3 now as we were in 1953 even if still top 10
Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
Today has been an amazing spectacle even the most cynical should accept and it has shown our country at its best
I expect it has benefitted the monarchy and the union
The coronation next year will be another spectacular event
It will but it will not be on this scale, certainly not globally. Nor on the scale of the Queen's own coronation in 1953.
She was truly our last imperial monarch. Charles, William and George will be monarchs more in the style of the Scandinavian, Dutch and Spanish monarchies
Enough of your declinist drivel
Yes, the Empire has gone. It went 50 years ago, and probably not before time
And yet we still live in a remarkable country, which influences the world in innumerable ways, far and beyond military or economic power
Indeed: As the free world faces Putin and China my guess is that a nation like Great Britain will gain in symbolic power: as we embody incredible tradition plus ongoing freedom. As we see here
People admire Britain because we are free and fair. And ancient. Not because we have nuclear missiles. Learn this
We do but when the Queen came to the throne we were still just about a superpower alongside the US and USSR with Churchill as PM and we still had a large Empire.
Now we are a middle ranking power only, the only true global superpowers now are the USA still and China.
People also admire Sweden, Ireland, Canada etc but none of them are superpowers either
No, the steam had gone out of it by then. In the 1930's arguably we were still a superpower, but WW2 finished us off.
We were still certainly top 3 in the early 1950s, now we are not even if still top 10
Not even top 10?
You sir are utterly ridiculous. There is no real list of top nations, but in any objective measurement normally we would feature quite rightly in the top 5, let alone the top 10.
Major powers now on the planet would be just 2 - USA and China, then the UK would feature near the top of other large powers alongside such nations as Germany, France and Japan.
We have this debate every six months on PB.
The UK is in the “Championship” along with France, Germany, Russia (yes, still), and newly-promoted India.
Comments
Sorry. Mucked up the copy and paste. What I tried to paste was: We have different powers now; soft powers. We should continue to develop them.
I have to admit that the passing of the Elizabethan Age is a melancholy prospect.
- Britain does pageantry really well
- It's great box office
- It's a happy occasion
HIs funeral will be less grand maybe. The procession from the Abbey to Wellington Arch was too long imo. Buck House would have been plenty far enough.
One other thought: Thank God no 'incidents' took place. It never seems to amaze me how brilliant our security forces must be to stop any wackos, terrorists, or foreign agents wreaking havoc on such an obvious occasion.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-praise-of-france-s-tributes-to-the-queen
Who when where?
We are witnessing something absolutely unique
So even though it means connecting bridge, that's not what it's called.
Truss is an utter non-entity.
Huw Edwards just couldn't help himself coming out with inanities. Funniest was when he explained how the gun carriage would stop under the Wellington Arch so that the transfer to the hearse would be sheltered... a few seconds before it passed under and beyond the arch.
Now that we have a king, these sorts of events will all take much longer, since he can only move along the floor one square at a time. #queensfuneral
https://twitter.com/David_Strathdee/status/1571804677834153986
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.6305238,-2.0987568,3a,75y,47.48h,84.37t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s4Vg0yeIADPaK_0YhpjAoKA!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?panoid=4Vg0yeIADPaK_0YhpjAoKA&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&w=203&h=100&yaw=51.926674&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i13312!8i6656
Rendering this whole discussion moot.
Well done the security services today certainly
But quite happy to be the archetype.
Another sign of the respect Elizabeth II had globally that the Emperor and Empress attended.
I wonder if this is the equivalent
Stunning shot of Catherine, #PrincessofWales
📸 Tim Goode / @PA
#photography #QueenElizabethII #RoyalFamily https://twitter.com/BenJonesPicEd/status/1571800562039156737/photo/1
The whole point of monarchy is pageantry and harking back to our ancestors and the misty foundations of Britain.
An event, long in the planning, said planning meticulously executed down to the last minute, the last detail. The kind of thing we do so well (as do other countries when required) and almost take for granted.
The hint of night time rehearsals through the empty streets give some sense of the work involved by thousands of people each playing their part within the overall.
The obvious parallel, though none of us were around, is the funeral of Victoria in 1901. The assembling of world leaders, the gathering of Princes, Emperors, Kings symbolised the longevity and dominance of one woman - the heir, long waiting, now taking his turn at a time of personal loss and grief.
Given what followed, it's understandable some may be fearful or at least anxious of the uncertainty which the passing of such a symbol of continuity may engender.
Three Queens mourning their father, son, husband - versus one not yet queen looking respectfully somber at here grandmother-in-law's funeral. No comaprison.
I wonder if that will have an emphasis / event added to begin a more collaborative reimagining of the Commonwealth.
After that NZ will follow.
William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.
https://twitter.com/betterussell/status/1472935476311044100
Looks like the mighty Dimbo has picked up the Windsor leg. Safe as houses choice.
If we take Henry's will and disregard anything done by his legitimate heirs, the Grey line is followed after Elizabeth
https://twitter.com/RoyalFamily/status/1571856133727346691
Quite a bit of commentary that would be considered “noddy” to Brits, but appropriately respectful.
Always moving to see NZ represented, behind the Mounties this time, by some army guy in a kakahu (Māori cloak).
You sir are utterly ridiculous. There is no real list of top nations, but in any objective measurement normally we would feature quite rightly in the top 5, let alone the top 10.
Major powers now on the planet would be just 2 - USA and China, then the UK would feature near the top of other large powers alongside such nations as Germany, France and Japan.
https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic
NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
Truly inspiring on this extraordinarily historic day :-)
*wouldn't
OH....not that South Pacific....
The UK is in the “Championship” along with France, Germany, Russia (yes, still), and newly-promoted India.
Japan was demoted to League One a while ago.