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And so ends the Second Elizabethan age – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    Radio: an estimated 3.1 billion people tuned in.

    While I'm sure the number that will see video of the funeral will be enormous, I would be very surprised if 3 billion people watched the funeral live.

    For a start, the timing makes is hard for those on the West Coast of the US to even be up, while most of those on the East Coast or in Latin America would likely be on their way to (or actually at) work. Likewise, those in China would have needed to stay up very late to watch.

    Three billion would mean that three quarters of the people not in China / US / LatAm watched the funeral. And when you remember that lots of people are very poor or very young, that number just seems out by 2 or 3x.

    I suspect, fwiw, that when you include people that see clips on the News or on YouTube or TikTok, then you will get a number approaching (or even exceeding) the 3bn.

    But live "tuning in": I'd be very surprised.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,063
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    My observations on my trips to New Zealand, and the reports from relations they're suggesting that New Zealand is becoming much more itself, and much less like the UK.
    Ardern herself said over the weekend she expects New Zealand to become a Republic within her lifetime

    Also polling in Australia is only 60/40 for the monarchy

    Change is coming sooner or later

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1571842183753338881?t=enXXMVbEncQJh1Be0uHniA&s=19
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,659
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    You won't sheikh him.
    Like the Bedouin, he is intent.
  • kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    The polling won't change a bean.

    King Charles was the republicans last best hope, and they've already lost.
    Doesn't that depend on how many more leaky pens he has to deal with?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,963

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    I was just thinking that HY fits into at least one of those categories.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    Stereodog said:

    I was in the crowd opposite Horseguards today and I thought the mood was surprisingly sour. There was a lot of anger at journalist, obviously foreign tourists and office workers trying to push in. I have this feeling that the national mourning has temporarily papered over something nasty. I think We’re going to be in for a lot of social division over the winter as the cost of living crises bites. Sorry to bring the mood down but after a busy week I’m feeling quite depressed,

    There does seem to be a weird, hectoring exultation in the air based on what people want to believe, a triumph of the will as it were.

    Such euphoria always dissipates faster than snow off a dyke.
    Snow off a dyke?

    Is that about @LadyG now that Leon has passed into history.
    Wrong sort of dyke.

    https://indy-prints.com/products/its-like-snaw-aff-a-dyke-card
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    This bit is really showing off how unusually green the UK is (also Ireland). Big mature trees, fields.

    Commented on by quite a few friends from abroad.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited September 2022
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is it just me or is Cherie Blair limping quite badly?

    I definitely think Cherie Blair is limping badly, I haven't picked you out amongst the mourners yet so I can't tell if you are.
    I was just gearing up to play the organ as my recognised hobble.
    That would explain your limp.

    Still, I just thought that sort of thing made one go blind.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,405
    The national anthem to be sang at the next labour conference.

    Will it be booed !

    https://twitter.com/tldrnewsuk/status/1571833118168055809?s=21&t=A1aqLhLZAewKekBeyzPO8g
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    My observations on my trips to New Zealand, and the reports from relations they're suggesting that New Zealand is becoming much more itself, and much less like the UK.
    Ardern herself said over the weekend she expects New Zealand to become a Republic within her lifetime

    Also polling in Australia is only 60/40 for the monarchy

    Change is coming sooner of later

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1571842183753338881?t=enXXMVbEncQJh1Be0uHniA&s=19
    Rubbish, 60/40 would be a landslide for the monarchy.

    Ardern trails the monarchist Opposition leader Luxon in NZ polls
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited September 2022

    I’m sure they’re unrelated:

    President Biden may have been one of the few dignitaries granted permission to take his own transport to Westminster Abbey but once there he had to settle for a seat 14 rows back

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1571849559046856705

    And he had to wait for VCs and George Medal holder to process ahead of him.

    That was an epic bit of symbolism. Absolutely loved it.
    And he got caught in traffic. Guffaw.
  • I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    You can’t fool me. I’ve heard the Genesis song!
    Will you be moving constituency?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Carnyx said:

    Stereodog said:

    I was in the crowd opposite Horseguards today and I thought the mood was surprisingly sour. There was a lot of anger at journalist, obviously foreign tourists and office workers trying to push in. I have this feeling that the national mourning has temporarily papered over something nasty. I think We’re going to be in for a lot of social division over the winter as the cost of living crises bites. Sorry to bring the mood down but after a busy week I’m feeling quite depressed,

    There does seem to be a weird, hectoring exultation in the air based on what people want to believe, a triumph of the will as it were.

    Such euphoria always dissipates faster than snow off a dyke.
    Snow off a dyke?

    Is that about @LadyG now that Leon has passed into history.
    Wrong sort of dyke.

    https://indy-prints.com/products/its-like-snaw-aff-a-dyke-card
    A friend of mine had a review blocked on Google. It didn't like her mentioning she was walking Offa's Dyke Path.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
  • Taz said:

    The national anthem to be sang at the next labour conference.

    Will it be booed !

    https://twitter.com/tldrnewsuk/status/1571833118168055809?s=21&t=A1aqLhLZAewKekBeyzPO8g

    At least now that Corbyn isn't leader we don't need to ask which country's national anthem we're talking about.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Taz said:

    The national anthem to be sang at the next labour conference.

    Will it be booed !

    https://twitter.com/tldrnewsuk/status/1571833118168055809?s=21&t=A1aqLhLZAewKekBeyzPO8g

    Make a change from the red flag
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    You can’t fool me. I’ve heard the Genesis song!
    Will you be moving constituency?
    Yes to rural Ongar in Brentwood and Ongar constituency, though still Epping Forest District
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    I went to Epping seven years ago this weekend, for a diesel gala on the Epping and Ongar railway. Facebook just reminded me with a fetching photo of me stood next to a Deltic, it was either 55009 or 55019. So as far as I am concerned it is a fabulous place.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Glad they didn't start the Long Walk at George III's statue.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    Dimbleby >>> Edwards. Popped the commentary back on.

    It is going on quite a bit now. Looking forward to post funeral run.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    I get the impression that they have adjusted to take account of the new situation.

    They are unlikely to turn their clocks back, whatever we do or have done
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Today has been an amazing spectacle even the most cynical should accept and it has shown our country at its best

    I expect it has benefitted the monarchy and the union

    The coronation next year will be another spectacular event

    It will but it will not be on this scale, certainly not globally. Nor on the scale of the Queen's own coronation in 1953.

    She was truly our last imperial monarch. Charles, William and George will be monarchs more in the style of the Scandinavian, Dutch and Spanish monarchies
    Enough of your declinist drivel

    Yes, the Empire has gone. It went 50 years ago, and probably not before time

    And yet we still live in a remarkable country, which influences the world in innumerable ways, far and beyond military or economic power

    Indeed: As the free world faces Putin and China my guess is that a nation like Great Britain will gain in symbolic power: as we embody incredible tradition plus ongoing freedom. As we see here

    People admire Britain because we are free and fair. And ancient. Not because we have nuclear missiles. Learn this

    We do but when the Queen came to the throne we were still just about a superpower alongside the US and USSR with Churchill as PM and we still had a large Empire.

    Now we are a middle ranking power only, the only true global superpowers now are the USA still and China.

    People also admire Sweden, Ireland, Canada etc but none of them are superpowers either
    No, the steam had gone out of it by then. In the 1930's arguably we were still a superpower, but WW2 finished us off.
    We were still certainly top 3 in the early 1950s, now we are not even if still top 10
    Not even top 10?

    You sir are utterly ridiculous. There is no real list of top nations, but in any objective measurement normally we would feature quite rightly in the top 5, let alone the top 10.

    Major powers now on the planet would be just 2 - USA and China, then the UK would feature near the top of other large powers alongside such nations as Germany, France and Japan.
    On pretty much every metric - economic power, military power, cultural influence, educational institutions etc - we would be top ten.

    And in most we would be top five.

    The only exception to this I could think, would be population.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549

    I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

    You are free to log on to YouTube. We are a liberal democracy, not North Korea. That’s kinda the point
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

    I've loved it. I had been given a substantial gardening itinerary including digging out some overgrown bamboo, which is a b****** of a job.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Minor point: We need to compose some more funeral marches. Getting a bit repetitive now.

    Does anyone know what this one is called?
    Wasn't listening, but if it is the one played at the Cenotaph each year it is the Funeral March, by Walch
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Over the sea to Skye. By the pipes. Oh god
  • Taz said:

    The national anthem to be sang at the next labour conference.

    Will it be booed !

    https://twitter.com/tldrnewsuk/status/1571833118168055809?s=21&t=A1aqLhLZAewKekBeyzPO8g

    They always sing Jerusalem I think, which is a better tune.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is it just me or is Cherie Blair limping quite badly?

    I definitely think Cherie Blair is limping badly, I haven't picked you out amongst the mourners yet so I can't tell if you are.
    I was just gearing up to play the organ as my recognised hobble.
    Tibia playing up again?

    If only there was a way to stop that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Stereodog said:

    I was in the crowd opposite Horseguards today and I thought the mood was surprisingly sour. There was a lot of anger at journalist, obviously foreign tourists and office workers trying to push in. I have this feeling that the national mourning has temporarily papered over something nasty. I think We’re going to be in for a lot of social division over the winter as the cost of living crises bites. Sorry to bring the mood down but after a busy week I’m feeling quite depressed,

    There does seem to be a weird, hectoring exultation in the air based on what people want to believe, a triumph of the will as it were.

    Such euphoria always dissipates faster than snow off a dyke.
    Snow off a dyke?

    Is that about @LadyG now that Leon has passed into history.
    Wrong sort of dyke.

    https://indy-prints.com/products/its-like-snaw-aff-a-dyke-card
    A friend of mine had a review blocked on Google. It didn't like her mentioning she was walking Offa's Dyke Path.
    Worth doing? I was in a beautiful part of North Wales last weekend and noted it ran through the area.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,839
    Eabhal said:

    This bit is really showing off how unusually green the UK is (also Ireland). Big mature trees, fields.

    Commented on by quite a few friends from abroad.

    Windsor looks absolutely spectacular. The parklands particularly.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Why do royalists care if Australia/NZ become republics when they don't even live there? Surely, it's more Charles for you if Australia fucks him off.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    This is tremendous
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is it just me or is Cherie Blair limping quite badly?

    I definitely think Cherie Blair is limping badly, I haven't picked you out amongst the mourners yet so I can't tell if you are.
    I was just gearing up to play the organ as my recognised hobble.
    Tibia playing up again?

    If only there was a way to stop that.
    That bourdon sarcasm.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,405
    rcs1000 said:

    Radio: an estimated 3.1 billion people tuned in.

    While I'm sure the number that will see video of the funeral will be enormous, I would be very surprised if 3 billion people watched the funeral live.

    For a start, the timing makes is hard for those on the West Coast of the US to even be up, while most of those on the East Coast or in Latin America would likely be on their way to (or actually at) work. Likewise, those in China would have needed to stay up very late to watch.

    Three billion would mean that three quarters of the people not in China / US / LatAm watched the funeral. And when you remember that lots of people are very poor or very young, that number just seems out by 2 or 3x.

    I suspect, fwiw, that when you include people that see clips on the News or on YouTube or TikTok, then you will get a number approaching (or even exceeding) the 3bn.

    But live "tuning in": I'd be very surprised.
    China's only 8 hours ahead. It was actually really conveniently timed for them.
  • ydoethur said:

    Is it just me or is Cherie Blair limping quite badly?

    Many would argue that she's been dragging around a useless, contaminated old appendage for a while now.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Stereodog said:

    I was in the crowd opposite Horseguards today and I thought the mood was surprisingly sour. There was a lot of anger at journalist, obviously foreign tourists and office workers trying to push in. I have this feeling that the national mourning has temporarily papered over something nasty. I think We’re going to be in for a lot of social division over the winter as the cost of living crises bites. Sorry to bring the mood down but after a busy week I’m feeling quite depressed,

    There does seem to be a weird, hectoring exultation in the air based on what people want to believe, a triumph of the will as it were.

    Such euphoria always dissipates faster than snow off a dyke.
    Snow off a dyke?

    Is that about @LadyG now that Leon has passed into history.
    Wrong sort of dyke.

    https://indy-prints.com/products/its-like-snaw-aff-a-dyke-card
    A friend of mine had a review blocked on Google. It didn't like her mentioning she was walking Offa's Dyke Path.
    Worth doing? I was in a beautiful part of North Wales last weekend and noted it ran through the area.
    It runs the whole length of the border, so it varies somewhat. The stretch from Hay to Pandy is amazing but hard work. The areas around Knighton much underrated. The north - less interesting.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    You can’t fool me. I’ve heard the Genesis song!
    Will you be moving constituency?
    Yes to rural Ongar in Brentwood and Ongar constituency, though still Epping Forest District
    Ten miles and a world away.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968
    Dura_Ace said:

    Why do royalists care if Australia/NZ become republics when they don't even live there? Surely, it's more Charles for you if Australia fucks him off.

    As we believe in our Commonwealth realm family and most of us have family in Australia or NZ or both
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Kind of with Hyufd on this one, GardenW.

    You might be technically correct but there are parts of Essex that do shade of physically and culturally into East Anglia. That wouldn't be Epping though, which is a nice little town with a lively mix of comfortable Shire types, made-good East Enders, a few City types, retired gangsters (though they tend to prefer Chigwell and Buckhurst hill), ex-barrow boys grown rich from Walthamstow market, and also some genuine rural folk.

    You'd be surprised how often you hear genuine country accents in the local pubs round there.
  • Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    You won't sheikh him.
    Like the Bedouin, he is intent.
    I think he is being a bit of an annoying Tuareg on this subject. Nomad -er person on this site IMO
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Stereodog said:

    I was in the crowd opposite Horseguards today and I thought the mood was surprisingly sour. There was a lot of anger at journalist, obviously foreign tourists and office workers trying to push in. I have this feeling that the national mourning has temporarily papered over something nasty. I think We’re going to be in for a lot of social division over the winter as the cost of living crises bites. Sorry to bring the mood down but after a busy week I’m feeling quite depressed,

    There does seem to be a weird, hectoring exultation in the air based on what people want to believe, a triumph of the will as it were.

    Such euphoria always dissipates faster than snow off a dyke.
    Snow off a dyke?

    Is that about @LadyG now that Leon has passed into history.
    Wrong sort of dyke.

    https://indy-prints.com/products/its-like-snaw-aff-a-dyke-card
    A friend of mine had a review blocked on Google. It didn't like her mentioning she was walking Offa's Dyke Path.
    Hmm, not sure if Offa's is the concave or convex kind - it has both ...
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    It “can”, but as Wikipedia relates, this is mostly claimed by Essex-based wannabes.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Sure, but what I said is still a fact.
  • HYUFD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Why do royalists care if Australia/NZ become republics when they don't even live there? Surely, it's more Charles for you if Australia fucks him off.

    As we believe in our Commonwealth realm family and most of us have family in Australia or NZ or both
    Most nations in the Commonwealth are republics already, and remain in the Commonwealth. If Aus, NZ or Canada became a republic, they'd stay in the Commonwealth and remain family even then.

    As would any family you have there. They aren't suddenly not family just because of a change in head of state.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    It “can”, but as Wikipedia relates, this is mostly claimed by Essex-based wannabes.
    In European elections Essex also elected MEPs for the Eastern region, not London region and not South East region
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    Colchester sometimes seems closer to Nepal!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Looking at the Premiership crowd in Windsor Great Park, Diana's funeral was just a National League turnout.
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549
    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Sure, but what I said is still a fact.
    Its not. NZ has been growing faster than the UK, not been getting poorer, since 1993.

    Now if you'd said when Britain joined the EEC, that may have been different . . .
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Christiane Amanpour on CNN described the UK as a declining power due in part to Brexit.

    Just thought I’d throw that scrap of meat in.
  • Hello PBers, long time no see.

    Feeling very surprised to be very moved and patriotic about HMQ's funeral. Very beautifully and tastefully done. The tradition of the armed forces and their dignified part in the proceedings is absolutely outstanding. I am veering back to being a monarchist for the first time in many years.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    But surely Essex was Saxon, whereas East Anglia was the territory of the Angles. Edit. Beaten to it by @wooliedyed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Horses playing up :D
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia

    Superb. I predict here and now: the monarchy will become MORE popular as people react to the Woke and Culture Wars and the sense of the Free West versus the illiberal rest

    The British monarchy is the monarchy of the free world. It is obviously Christian. It is us. The west

    Do Aussies want to be another Asian republic like Indonesia or China? No

    @HYUFD should rest easy
    Ordinary Australians are more worried about the influence of China than we are, and concerned that their politicians and businesses are too keen on Chinese money.
    Australia's export economy is based around shipping natural resources to China, so that concern is understandable.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    Colchester sometimes seems closer to Nepal!
    Lol! Yes, it's all those Ghurkas fron the barracks. :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Christiane Amanpour on CNN described the UK as a declining power due in part to Brexit.

    Just thought I’d throw that scrap of meat in.
    CNN lol, they'd know all about declining power
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,173

    I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

    I've loved it. I had been given a substantial gardening itinerary including digging out some overgrown bamboo, which is a b****** of a job.
    Bamboo normally needs about six attempts.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    My observations on my trips to New Zealand, and the reports from relations they're suggesting that New Zealand is becoming much more itself, and much less like the UK.
    Ardern herself said over the weekend she expects New Zealand to become a Republic within her lifetime

    Also polling in Australia is only 60/40 for the monarchy

    Change is coming sooner or later

    https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/status/1571842183753338881?t=enXXMVbEncQJh1Be0uHniA&s=19

    You simply can't make pronouncements like this, its just not worth it and you are not comparing like with like.

    I wonder what the polling result would have been among the victorious parliamentary army in the English Civil war? 90% for a Republic? Among the areas that were against the King in that War? same?

    I even wonder what the polling would have been on Victoria's conduct as a monarch after the death of her husband?

    As I understand it, many people were unhappy. We just don't know, and we never will.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    It “can”, but as Wikipedia relates, this is mostly claimed by Essex-based wannabes.
    In European elections Essex also elected MEPs for the Eastern region, not London region and not South East region
    As I’m sure you know, the “Eastern” region is a creation of bureaucrats in Westminster and DNE the historical and cultural region of East Anglia.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Christiane Amanpour on CNN described the UK as a declining power due in part to Brexit.

    Just thought I’d throw that scrap of meat in.
    Naughty!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    MattW said:

    I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

    I've loved it. I had been given a substantial gardening itinerary including digging out some overgrown bamboo, which is a b****** of a job.
    Bamboo normally needs about six attempts.
    Today and the coronation are two. He just needs four more big royal events to finish the job.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    There aren't many Ipswich fans in this part of N. Essex; plenty of West Ham supporters though.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Minor point: We need to compose some more funeral marches. Getting a bit repetitive now.

    Does anyone know what this one is called?
    Dimbleby just said today's funeral marches are by Beethoven, No's 1, 2 and 3.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    SeanT said:

    Over the sea to Skye. By the pipes. Oh god

    The other tune is "My Home"
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Sure, but what I said is still a fact.
    Its not. NZ has been growing faster than the UK, not been getting poorer, since 1993.

    Now if you'd said when Britain joined the EEC, that may have been different . . .
    I did mean the EEC.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    There aren't many Ipswich fans in this part of N. Essex; plenty of West Ham supporters though.
    There arent many Ipswich fans anywhere tbf
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    MattW said:

    I thought that the funeral service was very moving. Just right.

    But it's all dragging on a bit too long now.

    I've loved it. I had been given a substantial gardening itinerary including digging out some overgrown bamboo, which is a b****** of a job.
    Bamboo normally needs about six attempts.
    Borrow a panda.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Gadfly said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Minor point: We need to compose some more funeral marches. Getting a bit repetitive now.

    Does anyone know what this one is called?
    Dimbleby just said today's funeral marches are by Beethoven, No's 1, 2 and 3.
    Are Germany's great composers overrated? discuss.
  • SeanT said:

    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf

    You've been commenting on this for 5 hours. And it feels like 10.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Good to be ringing the Sevastopol bell

    What's the Ukr representation today?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Gadfly said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Minor point: We need to compose some more funeral marches. Getting a bit repetitive now.

    Does anyone know what this one is called?
    Dimbleby just said today's funeral marches are by Beethoven, No's 1, 2 and 3.
    Another march by Walch is the famous "Beethoven Funeral March Number 1" played at the funeral of King Edward VII and also at the National Service of Remembrance in London on Remembrance Sunday each year on the Sunday nearest to 11 November. It is played after the playing of the Last Post, and during the Wreath Laying Ceremony. It is also announced as "Beethoven's Funeral March" on the BBC Television commentary. For a long time, the march was wrongly attributed to Beethoven, and catalogued as WoO (work without opus number), Anh. 13. The march was played during the processions to the lying in state at Westminster of Queen Elizabeth II and Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, at the procession to St Paul's Cathedral at the funeral of former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher on 17 April 2013, and during the procession to St George's Chapel at the funeral of Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh on 17 April 2021. On 25 March 2015, this same march was also played by the Singapore Armed Forces Band during the foot procession from the Istana to the lying in state of Lee Kuan Yew, Singapore's first Prime Minister, at the Parliament House of Singapore.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Heinrich_Walch
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
  • SeanT said:

    Jesus I’ve been watching this for 5 hours. And it feels like 1

    Wtf

    You've been commenting on this for 5 hours. And it feels like 10.
    lol. He applied to be the commentator, but they thought they would stick with Dimbleby
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,671
    The horse without rider is very American. They do that at their state funerals.
  • MISTY said:

    Gadfly said:

    DavidL said:

    Eabhal said:

    Minor point: We need to compose some more funeral marches. Getting a bit repetitive now.

    Does anyone know what this one is called?
    Dimbleby just said today's funeral marches are by Beethoven, No's 1, 2 and 3.
    Are Germany's great composers overrated? discuss.
    It's very unpatriotic. Should have gone with Elgar, Lloyd-Webber and Stock, Aitken and Waterman.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    edited September 2022
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them and those bombed out in the Blitz and the underground came to the county, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    I was brought up in South Essex just after the war; left to go somewhere else to study in the very late 50s. We didn't regard ourselves as East Anglians; we were Essex. Suffolk and Norfolk were somewhere else!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Yes it is, East Anglia can include Essex and Cambridgeshire, not just Norfolk and Suffolk.

    Saffron Walden, Maldon, Colchester, Coggeshall etc are closer to Suffolk and Cambridgeshire than London

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Anglia#/media/File:East_Anglia_UK_Locator_Map.svg
    It “can”, but as Wikipedia relates, this is mostly claimed by Essex-based wannabes.
    In European elections Essex also elected MEPs for the Eastern region, not London region and not South East region
    Ah, the good old days
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,968
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    South Essex is, more rural North Essex isn't. Certainly before Londoners from the East End really started moving into South Essex after the War and new towns like Harlow and Basildon were created for them, Essex was culturally very much an East Anglia county
    No, it wasn’t.

    Rural Essex’s cultural affinities were more with rural Hertfordshire and even rural Middlesex.

    Of course, as a neighbour of East Anglia you would expect some similarities, but to neighbour is not the same thing as to actually be.
    Quite. He's ádmitted it with his assertion that English folk are more like Kiwis than they are to Scottish folk (whether this is actually true or not, he has abandoned the neighbourhood principle in so doing).
    More New Zealanders have English ancestry than that from any other nation, including Scotland
  • SeanTSeanT Posts: 549

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    But politically they feel - and wish they were - much closer to us. The new aggressive China freaks them out. Understandably

    Hence my reckoning that they will not become republics any time soon. It’s a precious link with the free west and a bulwark against Asian autocracy

    The peak moment for Aussie republicanism has possibly come and gone, at least in the medium term. In the long term we will all be gammon sex toys for Aliens
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    Australia's top three trade partners are its resource poor Asian neighbours: China, Japan and South Korea.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    There aren't many Ipswich fans in this part of N. Essex; plenty of West Ham supporters though.
    There arent many Ipswich fans anywhere tbf
    Have the glory hunters started supporting the mega successful Norwich? Oh, wait …..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    I know we've had this argument a gazillion times, but the UK's economy doesn't look anything like Australia or New Zealand.

    57% of Australia's exports are of raw materials.

    For the UK, it's 8%.

    Australia has massively benefitted from having enormous quantities of cheaply extractable raw materials, at exactly the time that China (which happens to be very close) has needed them.
    Three thousand miles is hardly 'very close.'
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Eabhal said:

    The horse without rider is very American. They do that at their state funerals.

    A very fine looking horse too.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,158
    edited September 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    SeanT said:

    Dunno who is on ITV but they are far better than BBC

    “Hope is the alchemy that turns a life around”

    Superb line. Just thrown out there

    Christ..
    It has all the poetry of a Barry Manilow song.
    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Jacinda has a tough fight at the next GE so unlikely to want to open that can of worms
    And her opponent Christopher Luxon is a strong monarchist
    If Australia “goes”, then it will be almost impossible for NZ to escape that gravity.

    Not necessarily, NZ likes defining itself against Australia, see also Canada defining itself against the US having kept the monarchy for centuries after the US became a republic
    The NZ does not define itself “against” Australia in the way you think it does.

    You know nothing of the subject.
    Last time I mistook a New Zealander for an Australian in London, I got a death stare before quickly being told in very strong terms they were actually a Kiwi
    Possibly because you were rude and assumed where somebody was from, rather than asking them?
    No, New Zealanders are generally not as wealthy as Australians but they still consider themselves intellectually and culturally superior and not as money focused. See also Canadians and Americans
    New Zealand got a lot poorer when we joined the EU. Hopefully some of that business can find its way back to NZ now.
    NZ has done very well thanks over the past twenty years and is likely to overtake the UK in average living standards this decade.
    Indeed Luckyguy1983 has it backwards, since the UK joined the EU it was the UK that struggled economically, not other English speaking nations. Every other English speaking developed nation has grown faster than the UK since 1993, not slower.

    Australia was much poorer than the UK per capita at the start of the 90s, now it is much, much richer poor capita. NZ was much, much poorer than the UK per capita then, but now its about the same.

    Hopefully now that we're out of the EU, we can start to recover and grow like non-EU English speaking nations like NZ and Australia etc have.
    Australia and NZ have grown rapidly by embracing the markets on their doorstep instead of trying to trade with us. Still, I am sure that erecting barriers to trade with our neighbours will be a sure fire route to prosperity.
    Australia and NZ haven't got a doorstep. NZ is about 3500 km from Australia let alone anywhere else.

    They've grown rapidly by embracing trade around the planet and not letting distance be a factor to stop them from trading.
    They are a lot closer to Asia than they are to us.
    London to Beijing distance 5058 miles.
    Wellington to Beijing distance 5027 miles.

    Presumably you think Asia is on our doorstep too then?
    And Wellington to London?

    Nowhere is on New Zealand's doorstep (except possibly Australia).

    But Asia is a hell of a lot closer to NZ than Europe is.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    My brother believes Australia will be “on the road to republicanism” by the time of the next Australian election.

    After that NZ will follow.

    William and Kate need an extended period in the South Pacific.

    Actually 60% of Australians want to keep the monarchy in a new poll taken after the Queen's death and as Charles III became King.

    https://www.roymorgan.com/findings/a-resounding-majority-of-australians-want-to-retain-the-monarchy-rather-than-become-a-republic

    NZ is culturally even closer to us than Australia
    Not a representative time to take a poll though is it. Even the most hard hearted Republican can't help but be moved by the last few days events. Need to look at polls during more boring times in a few months time.
    Precisely.

    At least in NZ, there’s no hostility toward the monarchy. It’s just that that the individuals are so profoundly British, and so obviously un-NZ.

    I don’t know how you domesticate or repatriate the monarchy to make it more “NZ”, although I do believe that a little can go a long way.
    Are they? NZ is culturally closer to the UK than any other nation on earth
    So you keep saying, and it’s not untrue, but it is simply not the UK.

    And it is even less UK-like than it was when I left the country in 2000.
    I would actually say NZ is culturally closer to England even than Ireland or maybe even Scotland
    Well, you’ve never been.
    So you are theorising.

    I would argue it’s closer to Scotland than England, but closer of all to Australia of course.

    Anyway the relevant dimension is “wanting to keep the monarchy”, and despite present polling there is now an clear nagging question of why a “foreigner” is Head of State.
    It isn't, Australia is probably closer to the US culturally than the UK now, New Zealand however is culturally still closer to the UK than US.

    There is also the question of wokeism self hating the ancestry of Australians and New Zealanders, which the monarchy offers a chance for conservatives in both nations in particular to react against.

    In Australia for example Coalition voters still clearly back the monarchy even if Green and Labor voters mostly don't
    This is like me telling you that Epping is full of Arabs.
    Having driven through Epping once, thirty years ago, I am an expert on the place. It’s full of cockney wide boys and small time gangsters.
    It isn't, certainly not gangsters, it is not actually in East London, though a few City wide boys maybe. However Epping and its surrounds also have plenty of farmers, Epping is the border between the part of Essex which is part culturally outer East London and the part of Essex that is more rural East Anglia proper (we move to the latter in December)
    No part of Essex is in East Anglia, strictly speaking.
    You don’t even know about your own neighbourhood.
    Quite. When i restore the kingdom i get Norfolk, Suffolk, the Isle of Ely and parts of Holland in Lincolnshure
    The Essex county council chamber has the names of the Essex Kings around its roof. There weren't very many of them, and mostly seemed to be called Seigbert.
    Although it's a while since I've been in the county council chamber!
    Yes, the name gives away the saxon/angle split
    Essex is a different beast to Anglia
    There aren't many Ipswich fans in this part of N. Essex; plenty of West Ham supporters though.
    There arent many Ipswich fans anywhere tbf
    There are a few more now I think; they're doing better!
This discussion has been closed.