Presumably, for similar reasons that they can't be trusted with booze or unsegregated supporters, some football fans aren't considered cultured or civilised enough to respect the decorum of this unusual occasion
Fuck me, it’s like Unity Mitford woke up from her self inflicted brain damage towards the end of 1942 and started bellowing ‘Gawdbless Winny and Comrade Stalin!’
Except that I’ve been virulently anti Putin and pro Ukraine since the beginning of this vile war. As you know, so you are trolling?
But I can dig up my remarks if you like. It might be fun
I suspect your remarks will be more “ambiguous”
I certainly remember you sermonising me directly about Putin’s superior anti woke qualities, but then you’ve always been a bit gooey eyed when it comes to authoritarian strong men.
On topic the question is a good one and no one has answered it (save for @HYUFD with his customary logic regarding dates and seasons).
Why cricket and not football. Or vice versa.
I assumed we all skipped over it or made a joke because it’s a silly question. The ECB and the FA made different decisions (in reality, probably some years ago in preparation) in isolation from each other, and no third party intervened. It really is that simple. Having made their decisions, they were stuck with them.
One other point - a full football schedule requires more policing, which I guess influenced the FA/league discussion.
Dr Mike Martin 🔶 @ThreshedThought · 12m Reports are coming in that Kupyansk has fallen, and also, just now, early reports that Izyum has been abandoned with Russian troops fleeing.
Also talk the Ukrainians have broken through at Lysychansk and Lyman.
If Izium has fallen, that sounds like mass surrender - hard to imagine how the Russians could have pulled their forces out so quickly with all the escape routes blocked. Certainly a mass capture of equipment.
Re Kherson, no need to do anything - Russians are hemmed in by the Dnipro, the routes in are under Ukrainian fire control,, there are no bridges etc - you can let them run out of supplies and then surrender.
Yep, they sent a pile of reinforcements to Kherson, and left the lines around Kupyansk and Izyum barely defended, such that the defenders were able to take a huge area with little effort. Can’t help but laugh out loud at the totally obsolete 1950s artillery captured, proof if it were needed that the enemy is unable to field any more modern weapons on the battlefield.
Bonus points, that all the enemy troops in Kherson are now stuck there, they’ll be slowly starved out in the coming days and weeks as they have only the river to resupply them.
A great few days for Ukraine, the best news of a sad week. 🇺🇦
They should build a dirty great POW camp at Zaporizhzhia for the thousands of Russian soldiers who are inevitably caught up in this and make sure the world knows it’s there.
Might make the Russians think twice about anything bad happening there.
You may be right about the location but I suggest it should be clean and tidy. The remark about the numbers being challenging can be seen as mocking but also implies humane treatment. Otherwise why would large numbers be a problem?
On the subject of Ukraine, my personal view is that the one thing the Russians cannot afford is for thousands - or tens of thousands - of their troops to be captured.
Dead. Injured. These can be hidden, at least in the short term.
But captured troops in Ukraine is a massive problem. Because those troops can speak. And their mothers will agitate for their return.
If there are mass captures, then I think Putin's days are numbered.
You’ve been suggesting a possible Russian collapse for a couple of weeks. You made me sit up and read, and realise you could be right. So: chapeau
Not all my calls are right, but I'm happy to put my arse on the line.
Fwiw, the fall of Putin would have enormous geopolitical implications.
The flow of money to ferment trouble in the West could all stop, as could the money to sympathetic politicians. People like Schroeder in Germany or Strache in Austria or Salvini in Hungary might find themselves very embarrassed if the truth were suddenly to be revealed.
We have been very reverential and polite at the passing of HMQ. Although the BBC coverage is becoming tiresome now.
As someone noted on the last thread thats just what life is like now - giving an example of massive coverage when Michael Jackson died.
The occasion is being marked and as it's a head of state that means days of stuff, which even the majority of monarchist like myself will not pay attention to.
It's really not hard to avoid, and there'll be some disruptions to regular events for like a week. We'll manage. As casino notes it's practically a tradition to go a bit over the top, others moan that no one cares, but clearly some really do, and it all happens quite smoothly.
People just need to relax, and not let it bother them if they dont care, and dont judge others for not caring if you do care.
It’s also worth noting that in the era of streaming TV, you can watch zillions of hours of TV without seeing anything from the U.K.
So there is an enormous safe space for the republicans
You wonder why they spend so much time talking about monarchy on here, don't you?
If Russia flees Ukraine entirely can Putin survive? There is nothing he can sell as a victory in that. They might even lose Crimea. And for this 60,000 Russians died???
The worry has to be that his only option would be to seek to present it as a NATO offensive.
Which is sort of is... The SMO is Russia vs Ukraine + NATO SIGINT + US Logisitics.
Maybe VVP's next move will be to bring Belarus in - if he can. That would make sense from his perspective.
On topic for once. Just sent off this email to my MP:
Dear Mr Lord,
I am writing to you regarding the postponement of football matches this weekend (10 to 11 September). I appreciate that this isn't the most important matter (though, I'd argue, neither is the death of a ninety-six-year-old - and I say that as a supporter of the monarchy), so I won't be offended if you don't have time to respond.
I know (or thought I knew!) that a lot of planning went into preparing for the change of monarch. I had always expected that football would cease from the announcement of the death until after the funeral. However, I was expecting all other major (note that even non-league football has been postponed - it doesn't matter to the Premier League clubs, but those clubs lower down the pyramid are losing real money because of this) sporting and cultural events would be stopping too. I was shocked to learn on Friday 9 September that the government had not mandated this and instead left it up to individual organisations.
It irritates me greatly that rugby, cricket and golf are continuing this weekend, whilst I am unable to watch my team play football.
I'm sure the government would say that it was up to the football authorities to decide. However, football is subject to much greater scrutiny than other sports and cultural events. The government is (or, at least, was) looking at setting up a football regulator (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-next-steps-towards-delivering-major-reform-of-football-in-england). The football authorities worry about how things would look in a way that other sports do not.
If the government wasn't going to mandate the shutdown of "fun" things until after the funeral, they should have encouraged events to carry on. If the government wants to help football fans, they can start by apologising for not ensuring that football went ahead this weekend.
I'm also concerned for next weekend. The reaction to the postponements this weekend has not been good. But next weekend, I fear that some matches will have to be postponed due to police resourcing issues. From time to time that kind of thing happens anyway (see the postponement of Brighton v Crystal Palace due to rail strikes, for example), but it won't go down well a week after games were unnecessarily postponed.
As I said at the start, there are far bigger things going on at the moment. However, this was something that the government could have prepared for. This was something the government could have sorted out, but when it came to it, they didn't.
Thank you for your time.
Good letter (and lead by Mike). In general I think that mass cancellations of everything are not a sensible response to death. A minute's silence at the start of an event would be better - that would spread the sense of loss to every type of event across the country, without making it into a mock-mourning which will actually lead to most people just spending the time in the pub or streaming a movie.
On the subject of Ukraine, my personal view is that the one thing the Russians cannot afford is for thousands - or tens of thousands - of their troops to be captured.
Dead. Injured. These can be hidden, at least in the short term.
But captured troops in Ukraine is a massive problem. Because those troops can speak. And their mothers will agitate for their return.
If there are mass captures, then I think Putin's days are numbered.
Interesting that Deputies in both Moscow and St Petersburg have very publicly been calling for Putin to be charged with treason.
And so far they have only been fined, rather than pushed out sixth-floor hospital windows.
@Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front
Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves
In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily
But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable
If Russia flees Ukraine entirely can Putin survive? There is nothing he can sell as a victory in that. They might even lose Crimea. And for this 60,000 Russians died???
The worry has to be that his only option would be to seek to present it as a NATO offensive.
Which is sort of is... The SMO is Russia vs Ukraine + NATO SIGINT + US Logisitics.
Maybe VVP's next move will be to bring Belarus in - if he can. That would make sense from his perspective.
Why would Belarus want to get any more involved than they are already? They’d be fair game for Western attacks on their own soil, in a way that Russia isn’t because nuclear weapons.
Dr Mike Martin 🔶 @ThreshedThought · 12m Reports are coming in that Kupyansk has fallen, and also, just now, early reports that Izyum has been abandoned with Russian troops fleeing.
Also talk the Ukrainians have broken through at Lysychansk and Lyman.
If Izium has fallen, that sounds like mass surrender - hard to imagine how the Russians could have pulled their forces out so quickly with all the escape routes blocked. Certainly a mass capture of equipment.
Re Kherson, no need to do anything - Russians are hemmed in by the Dnipro, the routes in are under Ukrainian fire control,, there are no bridges etc - you can let them run out of supplies and then surrender.
Yep, they sent a pile of reinforcements to Kherson, and left the lines around Kupyansk and Izyum barely defended, such that the defenders were able to take a huge area with little effort. Can’t help but laugh out loud at the totally obsolete 1950s artillery captured, proof if it were needed that the enemy is unable to field any more modern weapons on the battlefield.
Bonus points, that all the enemy troops in Kherson are now stuck there, they’ll be slowly starved out in the coming days and weeks as they have only the river to resupply them.
A great few days for Ukraine, the best news of a sad week. 🇺🇦
They should build a dirty great POW camp at Zaporizhzhia for the thousands of Russian soldiers who are inevitably caught up in this and make sure the world knows it’s there.
Might make the Russians think twice about anything bad happening there.
You may be right about the location but I suggest it should be clean and tidy. The remark about the numbers being challenging can be seen as mocking but also implies humane treatment. Otherwise why would large numbers be a problem?
They could ask for assistance from the UN, who could then pay the Bangladeshis to do it.
Football is going through a difficult patch. Still. It isn't so long ago that bananas were thrown onto the pitch and I bet there are monkey chants even now. Look at the controversy over players taking the knee. Plus the players are so well paid.
It is obvious to me that the footballing powers that be are hyper sensitive to public opinion and on this occasion decided to play it safe as they saw it.
Same with the racing, which is apparently the second most popular spectator sport.
I don't agree with their decisions but I can see why they made them, albeit from a flawed thought process and premise imo.
Why the fuck they postponed Shields vs Marshall god only knows.
Organisations thinking for themselves! Whatever next?
This is what Buckingham Palace has announced:
There is no obligation to cancel or postpone events and sporting fixtures, or close entertainment venues during the National Mourning period. This is at the discretion of individual organisations. As a mark of respect, organisations might wish to consider cancelling or postponing events or closing venues on the day of the State Funeral. They are under no obligation to do so and this is entirely at the discretion of individual organisations.
If sporting fixtures or events are planned for the day of the State Funeral, organisations may want to adjust the event timings so they do not clash with the timings of the funeral service and associated processions. As a mark of respect, and in keeping with the tone of National Mourning, organisers may wish to hold a period of silence and/or play the National Anthem at the start of events or sporting fixtures, and players may wish to wear black armbands.
Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.
Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall!
If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
H&M are merely entitled, boring and a bit embarrassing.
Are Bitter Remoaners turning into Wanky Republicans?
I was kinda joking when I suggested this a couple of days ago. Sad to see it coming true. It’s a helpless cul de sac of impotent rage
There are equivalents on our side of the political spectrum. Peter Hitchens, for example, 'the orc-minded, their conversation dreary and repetitive, filled with hatred and contempt."
Oh for sure. Hitchens is the equally sour mirror image of O’Brien
Both sides have their pro Putin voices, too
I see the Labour Party conference fringe is having a “stop the Ukraine war” event with Corbyn and Andrew Murray and the usual vile Trots. Have they invited any actual Ukrainians? No
But they have invited someone from the Muslim Council of GB
Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.
Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall!
If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.
But, they've shot their bolt now.
Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).
Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.
Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.
Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?
I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
Are Bitter Remoaners turning into Wanky Republicans?
I was kinda joking when I suggested this a couple of days ago. Sad to see it coming true. It’s a helpless cul de sac of impotent rage
There are equivalents on our side of the political spectrum. Peter Hitchens, for example, 'the orc-minded, their conversation dreary and repetitive, filled with hatred and contempt."
Oh for sure. Hitchens is the equally sour mirror image of O’Brien
Both sides have their pro Putin voices, too
I see the Labour Party conference fringe is having a “stop the Ukraine war” event with Corbyn and Andrew Murray and the usual vile Trots. Have they invited any actual Ukrainians? No
But they have invited someone from the Muslim Council of GB
On topic for once. Just sent off this email to my MP:
Dear Mr Lord,
I am writing to you regarding the postponement of football matches this weekend (10 to 11 September). I appreciate that this isn't the most important matter (though, I'd argue, neither is the death of a ninety-six-year-old - and I say that as a supporter of the monarchy), so I won't be offended if you don't have time to respond.
I know (or thought I knew!) that a lot of planning went into preparing for the change of monarch. I had always expected that football would cease from the announcement of the death until after the funeral. However, I was expecting all other major (note that even non-league football has been postponed - it doesn't matter to the Premier League clubs, but those clubs lower down the pyramid are losing real money because of this) sporting and cultural events would be stopping too. I was shocked to learn on Friday 9 September that the government had not mandated this and instead left it up to individual organisations.
It irritates me greatly that rugby, cricket and golf are continuing this weekend, whilst I am unable to watch my team play football.
I'm sure the government would say that it was up to the football authorities to decide. However, football is subject to much greater scrutiny than other sports and cultural events. The government is (or, at least, was) looking at setting up a football regulator (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-next-steps-towards-delivering-major-reform-of-football-in-england). The football authorities worry about how things would look in a way that other sports do not.
If the government wasn't going to mandate the shutdown of "fun" things until after the funeral, they should have encouraged events to carry on. If the government wants to help football fans, they can start by apologising for not ensuring that football went ahead this weekend.
I'm also concerned for next weekend. The reaction to the postponements this weekend has not been good. But next weekend, I fear that some matches will have to be postponed due to police resourcing issues. From time to time that kind of thing happens anyway (see the postponement of Brighton v Crystal Palace due to rail strikes, for example), but it won't go down well a week after games were unnecessarily postponed.
As I said at the start, there are far bigger things going on at the moment. However, this was something that the government could have prepared for. This was something the government could have sorted out, but when it came to it, they didn't.
Thank you for your time.
Good letter (and lead by Mike). In general I think that mass cancellations of everything are not a sensible response to death. A minute's silence at the start of an event would be better - that would spread the sense of loss to every type of event across the country, without making it into a mock-mourning which will actually lead to most people just spending the time in the pub or streaming a movie.
If there is no football next weekend, the top two divisions won't play again until 1 October. I won't be too keen on a minute's silence for the Queen that long after the event (having been in one on Thursday!).
Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.
Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall!
If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
H&M are merely entitled, boring and a bit embarrassing.
Andrew is rather worse.
One of my ex-students said on Discord last night, "Is the new king the one who's the pedo?"
Fucking LOL. Young people have no idea about or any interest in this shit.
Are Bitter Remoaners turning into Wanky Republicans?
I was kinda joking when I suggested this a couple of days ago. Sad to see it coming true. It’s a helpless cul de sac of impotent rage
I was a wanky republican long before the bitter remoanerism became a thing. Sad times.
It is going to be interesting to see how Charlie performs. I wouldn’t be surprised if he pisses off some of the more fiery parts of the right in the coming years so much that they give him shit big time. If he’s a bit too woke for some, perhaps. A bit too green. A bit too outspoken.
I saw a clip yesterday where he said he’s not so stupid that he doesn’t understand that he needs to rein himself in a bit, to adopt the public inscrutability of his mum. Might be hard to avoid the temptation though. Particularly if the new government go off on one.
Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.
Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall!
If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.
But, they've shot their bolt now.
Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).
Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.
Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.
Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?
I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
You have no idea how his family have treated him.
And that is from me, someone who is 13,247th in the sequence of people who know things.
If Russia flees Ukraine entirely can Putin survive? There is nothing he can sell as a victory in that. They might even lose Crimea. And for this 60,000 Russians died???
The worry has to be that his only option would be to seek to present it as a NATO offensive.
Which is sort of is... The SMO is Russia vs Ukraine + NATO SIGINT + US Logisitics.
Maybe VVP's next move will be to bring Belarus in - if he can. That would make sense from his perspective.
Yes, his invasion has made his NATO paranoia sort of true, which is so obvious a response one might almost assume it was what he wanted.
On topic the question is a good one and no one has answered it (save for @HYUFD with his customary logic regarding dates and seasons).
Why cricket and not football. Or vice versa.
I assumed we all skipped over it or made a joke because it’s a silly question. The ECB and the FA made different decisions (in reality, probably some years ago in preparation) in isolation from each other, and no third party intervened. It really is that simple. Having made their decisions, they were stuck with them.
One other point - a full football schedule requires more policing, which I guess influenced the FA/league discussion.
Yeah, and the attempts of certain lefties to link the postponement of certain temporary postponements with cancel culture, in an attempt to devalue that term so that they can continue to practise its real meaning,, is utterly shameless. We've seen it here in the comments yesterday, and it's no surprise that the odious O'Brien is doing the same.
Cancelling the football was a mistake. It will have cost the football authorities a lot of goodwill and, absolutely unfairly, some less-informed fans will blame the government.
It would have shown more respect to keep playing. Pro-monarchists would have enjoyed the collectivism involved in singing the anthem, a minute's silence etc. And I believe those who are indifferent, and republicans, would have shown total respect and not disrupted proceedings. It's a shame that an opportunity to promote unity, at events that really are important to many peoples' lives, has been missed. It won't be the same next weekend.
On topic the question is a good one and no one has answered it (save for @HYUFD with his customary logic regarding dates and seasons).
Why cricket and not football. Or vice versa.
I assumed we all skipped over it or made a joke because it’s a silly question. The ECB and the FA made different decisions (in reality, probably some years ago in preparation) in isolation from each other, and no third party intervened. It really is that simple. Having made their decisions, they were stuck with them.
One other point - a full football schedule requires more policing, which I guess influenced the FA/league discussion.
Also, if County Cricket stopped, would anyone notice?
If Russia flees Ukraine entirely can Putin survive? There is nothing he can sell as a victory in that. They might even lose Crimea. And for this 60,000 Russians died???
The worry has to be that his only option would be to seek to present it as a NATO offensive.
Which is sort of is... The SMO is Russia vs Ukraine + NATO SIGINT + US Logisitics.
Maybe VVP's next move will be to bring Belarus in - if he can. That would make sense from his perspective.
I can sense you yearning for a Putin master-stroke
Fuck me, it’s like Unity Mitford woke up from her self inflicted brain damage towards the end of 1942 and started bellowing ‘Gawdbless Winny and Comrade Stalin!’
Except that I’ve been virulently anti Putin and pro Ukraine since the beginning of this vile war. As you know, so you are trolling?
But I can dig up my remarks if you like. It might be fun
I suspect your remarks will be more “ambiguous”
I certainly remember you sermonising me directly about Putin’s superior anti woke qualities, but then you’ve always been a bit gooey eyed when it comes to authoritarian strong men.
Shall we go back and look at PB when the war began?
If Russia flees Ukraine entirely can Putin survive? There is nothing he can sell as a victory in that. They might even lose Crimea. And for this 60,000 Russians died???
The worry has to be that his only option would be to seek to present it as a NATO offensive.
Which is sort of is... The SMO is Russia vs Ukraine + NATO SIGINT + US Logisitics.
Maybe VVP's next move will be to bring Belarus in - if he can. That would make sense from his perspective.
Why would Belarus want to get any more involved than they are already? They’d be fair game for Western attacks on their own soil, in a way that Russia isn’t because nuclear weapons.
He might not give them much choice in the matter. When you're Putin's bitch your options are limited.
@Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front
Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves
In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily
But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable
So the Council has proclaimed Charles as our new King.
Interesting dynamics between the ex PMs before, Starmer speaking to Blair, May speaking to Cameron with Major alongside, leaving Boris and Gordon Brown to speak to each other
On topic for once. Just sent off this email to my MP:
Dear Mr Lord,
I am writing to you regarding the postponement of football matches this weekend (10 to 11 September). I appreciate that this isn't the most important matter (though, I'd argue, neither is the death of a ninety-six-year-old - and I say that as a supporter of the monarchy), so I won't be offended if you don't have time to respond.
I know (or thought I knew!) that a lot of planning went into preparing for the change of monarch. I had always expected that football would cease from the announcement of the death until after the funeral. However, I was expecting all other major (note that even non-league football has been postponed - it doesn't matter to the Premier League clubs, but those clubs lower down the pyramid are losing real money because of this) sporting and cultural events would be stopping too. I was shocked to learn on Friday 9 September that the government had not mandated this and instead left it up to individual organisations.
It irritates me greatly that rugby, cricket and golf are continuing this weekend, whilst I am unable to watch my team play football.
I'm sure the government would say that it was up to the football authorities to decide. However, football is subject to much greater scrutiny than other sports and cultural events. The government is (or, at least, was) looking at setting up a football regulator (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-next-steps-towards-delivering-major-reform-of-football-in-england). The football authorities worry about how things would look in a way that other sports do not.
If the government wasn't going to mandate the shutdown of "fun" things until after the funeral, they should have encouraged events to carry on. If the government wants to help football fans, they can start by apologising for not ensuring that football went ahead this weekend.
I'm also concerned for next weekend. The reaction to the postponements this weekend has not been good. But next weekend, I fear that some matches will have to be postponed due to police resourcing issues. From time to time that kind of thing happens anyway (see the postponement of Brighton v Crystal Palace due to rail strikes, for example), but it won't go down well a week after games were unnecessarily postponed.
As I said at the start, there are far bigger things going on at the moment. However, this was something that the government could have prepared for. This was something the government could have sorted out, but when it came to it, they didn't.
Thank you for your time.
Good letter (and lead by Mike). In general I think that mass cancellations of everything are not a sensible response to death. A minute's silence at the start of an event would be better - that would spread the sense of loss to every type of event across the country, without making it into a mock-mourning which will actually lead to most people just spending the time in the pub or streaming a movie.
I would prefer that sort of response too, but I find the suggestion in the letter that the government should have encouraged them to stay open untoward. They can make their own decisions, and it certainly isn't for the goverment to apologise to football fans about it. It's deliberate that these things are left to judgement calls, rather than a mandate or official encouragement. Top politicians can praise or criticise the move in their own capacities.
On the subject of Ukraine, my personal view is that the one thing the Russians cannot afford is for thousands - or tens of thousands - of their troops to be captured.
Dead. Injured. These can be hidden, at least in the short term.
But captured troops in Ukraine is a massive problem. Because those troops can speak. And their mothers will agitate for their return.
If there are mass captures, then I think Putin's days are numbered.
You’ve been suggesting a possible Russian collapse for a couple of weeks. You made me sit up and read, and realise you could be right. So: chapeau
Not all my calls are right, but I'm happy to put my arse on the line.
Fwiw, the fall of Putin would have enormous geopolitical implications.
The flow of money to ferment trouble in the West could all stop, as could the money to sympathetic politicians. People like Schroeder in Germany or Strache in Austria or Salvini in Hungary might find themselves very embarrassed if the truth were suddenly to be revealed.
It is 70 or 80 years since the Cambridge Spy ring and Russia has still not revealed the full story. We do not even know what route Burgess and Maclean took, despite Russian archives being opened during Perestroika. I doubt Putin's fall will reveal "the truth" about current political meddling.
@Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front
Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves
In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily
But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable
On our first (and only) trip to Vietnam we were taken around the Chu Chi tunnels. Impressive. And I had the chance to do some target practice with a Klashnikoff AK 47.
On the subject of Ukraine, my personal view is that the one thing the Russians cannot afford is for thousands - or tens of thousands - of their troops to be captured.
Dead. Injured. These can be hidden, at least in the short term.
But captured troops in Ukraine is a massive problem. Because those troops can speak. And their mothers will agitate for their return.
If there are mass captures, then I think Putin's days are numbered.
You’ve been suggesting a possible Russian collapse for a couple of weeks. You made me sit up and read, and realise you could be right. So: chapeau
Not all my calls are right, but I'm happy to put my arse on the line.
Fwiw, the fall of Putin would have enormous geopolitical implications.
The flow of money to ferment trouble in the West could all stop, as could the money to sympathetic politicians. People like Schroeder in Germany or Strache in Austria or Salvini in Hungary might find themselves very embarrassed if the truth were suddenly to be revealed.
And Alex Salmond?
It’s notable that Meloni in Italy is strongly anti Putin
Penny would've been a very good PM IMO. Very assured and confident.
She seems to have some presence, though she was not massively impressive in the leadershipcontest. Big what if though, it being so close between her and Truss for the runoff.
Are Bitter Remoaners turning into Wanky Republicans?
I was kinda joking when I suggested this a couple of days ago. Sad to see it coming true. It’s a helpless cul de sac of impotent rage
There are equivalents on our side of the political spectrum. Peter Hitchens, for example, 'the orc-minded, their conversation dreary and repetitive, filled with hatred and contempt."
Oh for sure. Hitchens is the equally sour mirror image of O’Brien
Both sides have their pro Putin voices, too
I see the Labour Party conference fringe is having a “stop the Ukraine war” event with Corbyn and Andrew Murray and the usual vile Trots. Have they invited any actual Ukrainians? No
But they have invited someone from the Muslim Council of GB
Fuck me, it’s like Unity Mitford woke up from her self inflicted brain damage towards the end of 1942 and started bellowing ‘Gawdbless Winny and Comrade Stalin!’
Except that I’ve been virulently anti Putin and pro Ukraine since the beginning of this vile war. As you know, so you are trolling?
But I can dig up my remarks if you like. It might be fun
I suspect your remarks will be more “ambiguous”
I certainly remember you sermonising me directly about Putin’s superior anti woke qualities, but then you’ve always been a bit gooey eyed when it comes to authoritarian strong men.
Shall we go back and look at PB when the war began?
One always knows when one’s touched a nerve when Seanny boy goes into trawling old threads mode. Keeps the auld lad occupied I guess.
Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.
Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall!
If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.
But, they've shot their bolt now.
Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).
Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.
Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.
Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?
I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
I fully expect pb.com to tell me the last five left handed monarchs. National and international.
I doubt there's ever been any before, considering that in the past being left handed was something that was driven out of people.
My grandad is left handed but he had his hand tied behind his back so he would learn to write with his correct, right hand instead. This was during WWII.
Another odd and unmentioned sign of how much has changed during HMQ's reign, that left handedness is now so acceptable.
Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.
Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall!
If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
H&M are merely entitled, boring and a bit embarrassing.
Andrew is rather worse.
One of my ex-students said on Discord last night, "Is the new king the one who's the pedo?"
Fucking LOL. Young people have no idea about or any interest in this shit.
If it was left to young people Corbyn would now be PM.
Fortunately young peoples' votes don't really matter until they reach middle age
@Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front
Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves
In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily
But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable
On our first (and only) trip to Vietnam we were taken around the Chu Chi tunnels. Impressive. And I had the chance to do some target practice with a Klashnikoff AK 47.
First level tunnels? Or did you go down to the second level as well? Damn, that was claustrophobic! And the humidity was unbearable.
It brought it home that the Americans were never going to win against an army that was so innovative - and would endure that level of privation.
Fuck me, it’s like Unity Mitford woke up from her self inflicted brain damage towards the end of 1942 and started bellowing ‘Gawdbless Winny and Comrade Stalin!’
Except that I’ve been virulently anti Putin and pro Ukraine since the beginning of this vile war. As you know, so you are trolling?
But I can dig up my remarks if you like. It might be fun
I suspect your remarks will be more “ambiguous”
I certainly remember you sermonising me directly about Putin’s superior anti woke qualities, but then you’ve always been a bit gooey eyed when it comes to authoritarian strong men.
Shall we go back and look at PB when the war began?
One always knows when one’s touched a nerve when Seanny boy goes into trawling old threads mode. Keeps the auld lad occupied I guess.
The more you blat on in Diversionary Auld Scots the more intrigued I become. How “ambivalent” were you about Putin’s war?
We have been very reverential and polite at the passing of HMQ. Although the BBC coverage is becoming tiresome now.
As someone noted on the last thread thats just what life is like now - giving an example of massive coverage when Michael Jackson died.
The occasion is being marked and as it's a head of state that means days of stuff, which even the majority of monarchist like myself will not pay attention to.
It's really not hard to avoid, and there'll be some disruptions to regular events for like a week. We'll manage. As casino notes it's practically a tradition to go a bit over the top, others moan that no one cares, but clearly some really do, and it all happens quite smoothly.
People just need to relax, and not let it bother them if they dont care, and dont judge others for not caring if you do care.
It’s also worth noting that in the era of streaming TV, you can watch zillions of hours of TV without seeing anything from the U.K.
So there is an enormous safe space for the republicans
It has nothing to do with whether you are a Republican or not. It is all to do with the quality of the coverage by the main players (BBC, ITV, C4, C5). They are filling the airwaves with such huge amounts of dross that it drowns out the decent coverage about the death of the Queen and the succession of Charles. I would like to watch that stuff. However I don't want to know about Andrew Lloyd Webber writing a song about it or someone's Great Aunt whose friend's cat met the Queen.
On topic for once. Just sent off this email to my MP:
Dear Mr Lord,
I am writing to you regarding the postponement of football matches this weekend (10 to 11 September). I appreciate that this isn't the most important matter (though, I'd argue, neither is the death of a ninety-six-year-old - and I say that as a supporter of the monarchy), so I won't be offended if you don't have time to respond.
I know (or thought I knew!) that a lot of planning went into preparing for the change of monarch. I had always expected that football would cease from the announcement of the death until after the funeral. However, I was expecting all other major (note that even non-league football has been postponed - it doesn't matter to the Premier League clubs, but those clubs lower down the pyramid are losing real money because of this) sporting and cultural events would be stopping too. I was shocked to learn on Friday 9 September that the government had not mandated this and instead left it up to individual organisations.
It irritates me greatly that rugby, cricket and golf are continuing this weekend, whilst I am unable to watch my team play football.
I'm sure the government would say that it was up to the football authorities to decide. However, football is subject to much greater scrutiny than other sports and cultural events. The government is (or, at least, was) looking at setting up a football regulator (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-next-steps-towards-delivering-major-reform-of-football-in-england). The football authorities worry about how things would look in a way that other sports do not.
If the government wasn't going to mandate the shutdown of "fun" things until after the funeral, they should have encouraged events to carry on. If the government wants to help football fans, they can start by apologising for not ensuring that football went ahead this weekend.
I'm also concerned for next weekend. The reaction to the postponements this weekend has not been good. But next weekend, I fear that some matches will have to be postponed due to police resourcing issues. From time to time that kind of thing happens anyway (see the postponement of Brighton v Crystal Palace due to rail strikes, for example), but it won't go down well a week after games were unnecessarily postponed.
As I said at the start, there are far bigger things going on at the moment. However, this was something that the government could have prepared for. This was something the government could have sorted out, but when it came to it, they didn't.
Thank you for your time.
Respectfully disagree. It's not important enough to bother politics with. Discretion and difference of mind is part of a free society. Accept it all tolerantly.
A large part of the Queen's mystique was in her link to the second world war. The pictures of her in military uniform, celebrating at the Palace on VE Day and her coming off the plane in 1952 to be met by her first prime minister, one Winston Churchill*. It's sad that she should die as we may be on the brink of our biggest foreign policy success since 1945 but that's how it is.
*Monarchists ought to consider whether this is something that can now be sustained going forward.
Penny would've been a very good PM IMO. Very assured and confident.
She seems to have some presence, though she was not massively impressive in the leadershipcontest. Big what if though, it being so close between her and Truss for the runoff.
Not sure our recent experience of “presentation over content” has been entirely happy!
Comments
Is that it?
One other point - a full football schedule requires more policing, which I guess influenced the FA/league discussion.
Fwiw, the fall of Putin would have enormous geopolitical implications.
The flow of money to ferment trouble in the West could all stop, as could the money to sympathetic politicians. People like Schroeder in Germany or Strache in Austria or Salvini in Hungary might find themselves very embarrassed if the truth were suddenly to be revealed.
Maybe VVP's next move will be to bring Belarus in - if he can. That would make sense from his perspective.
The SA team have future fixtures so can’t stay for more time to extend the match or move it.
And so far they have only been fined, rather than pushed out sixth-floor hospital windows.
For me the best book about the war - and there are dozens of excellent examples - is Caputo’s “A Rumor of War”
https://www.amazon.com/Rumor-War-Classic-Vietnam-Anniversary/dp/1250117127
Edit: five, Major is there now. Blair is also in the room.
I should have asked Dave for membership of the privy council rather than to make me the Duke of Sheffield.
It is obvious to me that the footballing powers that be are hyper sensitive to public opinion and on this occasion decided to play it safe as they saw it.
Same with the racing, which is apparently the second most popular spectator sport.
I don't agree with their decisions but I can see why they made them, albeit from a flawed thought process and premise imo.
Why the fuck they postponed Shields vs Marshall god only knows.
As a mark of respect to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, English football has united to postpone all football fixtures this weekend.
https://twitter.com/FA/status/1568190505074171904
Andrew is rather worse.
Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?
I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
Fucking LOL. Young people have no idea about or any interest in this shit.
It is going to be interesting to see how Charlie performs. I wouldn’t be surprised if he pisses off some of the more fiery parts of the right in the coming years so much that they give him shit big time. If he’s a bit too woke for some, perhaps. A bit too green. A bit too outspoken.
I saw a clip yesterday where he said he’s not so stupid that he doesn’t understand that he needs to rein himself in a bit, to adopt the public inscrutability of his mum. Might be hard to avoid the temptation though. Particularly if the new government go off on one.
And that is from me, someone who is 13,247th in the sequence of people who know things.
https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/status/1567693286537666562
Better than Liz.
It would have shown more respect to keep playing. Pro-monarchists would have enjoyed the collectivism involved in singing the anthem, a minute's silence etc. And I believe those who are indifferent, and republicans, would have shown total respect and not disrupted proceedings. It's a shame that an opportunity to promote unity, at events that really are important to many peoples' lives, has been missed. It won't be the same next weekend.
How will Trump react?
This is a lightly fictionalised account but is the author’s experiences. This guy, Karl Marlantes, was all over the Ken Burns documentary: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003ZUXQCQ/ref=dbs_a_def_rwt_hsch_vapi_tkin_p1_i0
Interesting dynamics between the ex PMs before, Starmer speaking to Blair, May speaking to Cameron with Major alongside, leaving Boris and Gordon Brown to speak to each other
And I had the chance to do some target practice with a Klashnikoff AK 47.
It’s notable that Meloni in Italy is strongly anti Putin
It’s birsvjt that
They said "it's from another age" as well.
It's from this age as well.
It doesn't change. That's precisely the bloody point.
For once they've risen to the occasion and got it right. I might even go tomorrow.
My grandad is left handed but he had his hand tied behind his back so he would learn to write with his correct, right hand instead. This was during WWII.
Another odd and unmentioned sign of how much has changed during HMQ's reign, that left handedness is now so acceptable.
Fortunately young peoples' votes don't really matter until they reach middle age
As one era ends, so another begins.
God Save The King.
https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1568526753282269184
They were asked to turn off phones before it started…perhaps a SPAD is about to get a dressing down…
It brought it home that the Americans were never going to win against an army that was so innovative - and would endure that level of privation.
No Corbyn, but also no Howard or Hague.
It has driven me away and I am interested.
Next week’s matches in London ain’t happening.
So to fans of other clubs, Dynamo was known as Mу́сора (musora) which is the plural of му́сор, the word for garbage and a derogatory term for police
*Monarchists ought to consider whether this is something that can now be sustained going forward.
We are, I think, allowed to gloat.