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Why’s crickets still going ahead but not football? – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,219
    Pro Russians on Twitter saying Putin has humiliated Russia

    “Mr President - its time to start something serious

    - or we should call off the Military Operation.
    There is no third option.
    @mod_russia @KremlinRussia_E”

    Whole thread fascinating


    https://twitter.com/ukraine66251776/status/1568542731021991937?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    @Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front

    Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves

    In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily


    But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable


    If you’ve not read it already, you might like ‘A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam’ - superb - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bright_Shining_Lie

    Won a Pulitzer.

    Let’s hope the current Ukrainian operations become more Bagration than Tet.

    I actually read that on my first trip to Vietnam

    For me the best book about the war - and there are dozens of excellent examples - is Caputo’s “A Rumor of War”

    https://www.amazon.com/Rumor-War-Classic-Vietnam-Anniversary/dp/1250117127
    Did you read "Kill Anything that Moves" ?
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anything-Moves-American-Empire-Project/dp/1250045061


    Catchy title. Up there with Sean McGlynn's 'Kill them all' about the Albigensian crusade (also the author of 'By Sword an Fire').
    It's a depressing read, but it gives a picture if the sheer scale of the slaughter in Vietnam.
    Its thesis - that My Lai was characteristic rather than an aberration - is disturbing.
    Sean McGlynn's argument (which I think is correct) that the popular depiction of medieval armies running out of control, when they pillaged territories and sacked cities, is wrong. Most of the time, these were brutal and effective military strategies, which were commanded from the top.
    I think it is a pretty standard feature of war, full stop. Hence the ambiguity of the Johnny Mercer "yebbut we don't talk about that" job.
    Sure, you can't win a war, usually, without being cruel to the other side. Morally, there's not a lot of distinction, between the chevauchee, designed to devastate the enemy's economy and inflict starvation on the population, and comprehensive economic sanctions, designed to do much the same.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "

    gotta hurt being turned away from a flight pedo boy is allowed on. But what a foot shooting exercise, all it did was delay the announcement of the death for 2 hours while he easyjetted up.

    But this says nothing about the funeral, she'll be there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    Leon said:

    We should have done more work in South America tho. That’s the only bit we neglected. Maybe we could have formally annexed Argentina or something?

    Otherwise, good job. Damn good job

    I think we paid the Monroe Doctrine rather more respect than we needed to but, hey.
  • Driver said:

    I don't know if anyone can confirm that this is true?

    'George V was the cousin of the executed Nicholas II, the last emperor of the Russian Empire. It turns out that Charles III, in a direct line from his great-grandfather, is the great-nephew of Nicholas II, that is, of the currently ruling monarchs, he is the only one who has absolutely legal rights to claim the crown of Russia, if one imagines that Russia, or some part of it, which has the right to succession from of the Russian Empire, would like to restore the monarchy and thus become one of the countries of the British Commonwealth of Nations.'

    The first bit is true and the rest plausible, but I think there are still some living distant relatives of the Romanovs who claim the right to the Russian throne.
    There are direct descent claimants from Alexander 2nd and Nicholas 1st (including Philip and hence Charles)
    Grand Duchess Maria or Alexander Romanov are the main 2 mooted by imperialist russians
    As I understand it Putin had made a bit of an effort to to reinstate the Romanovs into the history of Holy Russia? It’s all quite complicated..
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Unfortunately this just makes me kinda proud


    Why do you hate people taking back control from their unelected rulers?

    Are you a remoaner?
    Even as the child of immigrants I bet a bit of you is *secretly proud* of that map. It is disturbingly impressive
    Yes, really proud of things like the Bengal famine and the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.
    Cawnpore.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,848
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Unfortunately this just makes me kinda proud


    Why do you hate people taking back control from their unelected rulers?

    Are you a remoaner?
    Even as the child of immigrants I bet a bit of you is *secretly proud* of that map. It is disturbingly impressive
    A quiet undemonstrative patriotism, free of jingo and assertions of superiority, founded on a deep affection for one's country and wanting the best for its people ... this is not quite you, is it?
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "

    gotta hurt being turned away from a flight pedo boy is allowed on. But what a foot shooting exercise, all it did was delay the announcement of the death for 2 hours while he easyjetted up.

    But this says nothing about the funeral, she'll be there.
    They didn't actually delay the announcement for him to arrive, he was still travelling when they announced it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,848
    Pro_Rata said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    On the other hand there are some cynics still in our family.

    Husband - watching the ceremony - is asking how one gets one of these Dressing-Up Jobs.

    Since he's a barrister he has a Dressing Up Job already, complete with wig, so an odd question.

    Interesting to see the ceremony: a combination of grandeur and the sorts of pedantic minute-taking seen in council offices.

    Presumably all the QCs are now KCs.
    Yes - I faced that issue at work yesterday (I am not a KC - just dealing with one). It sounds weird.
    I'm afraid it comes mentally with "and the sunshine band". Not much to be done about that.
    Give it up?
    No way!

    Or rather na na na na na na na na na na NAH.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Unfortunately this just makes me kinda proud


    Some of those celebrating independence still share a head of state with us for crying out loud, it's not all hard feelings.
    I think secretly they all want us to rule them again. That’s the psychology at work here
    I'm still furious about finding out Malta wanted to be incorporated as part of the UK and we said no. Probably not the done thing for someone to suggest that again.
    It came 10 years too early, they were concerned at large numbers taking that route and the HoC becoming dominated. Had it occured after 'winds of change' i think it would have been done along with a few other small outposts - Gibraltar etc.
    I personally think incorporating Gibraltar into the UK and giving them one MP would be sensible. Also a possible solution for the Atlantic islands who are probably too small to survive as independant entities
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,219
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Unfortunately this just makes me kinda proud


    Why do you hate people taking back control from their unelected rulers?

    Are you a remoaner?
    Even as the child of immigrants I bet a bit of you is *secretly proud* of that map. It is disturbingly impressive
    A quiet undemonstrative patriotism, free of jingo and assertions of superiority, founded on a deep affection for one's country and wanting the best for its people ... this is not quite you, is it?
    By jingo. I am unmasked! Fiend!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458
    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,219
    Could the Kherson Front be in play as well?


    🇺🇦 The Armed Forces of Ukraine are successfully counterrattacking in the south of Ukraine, currently the defenders have advanced several tens of kilometers in various directions – Humeniuk, spokeswoman of the press center of Operational Command "Pivden" (South)

    https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/1568568875754700800?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "

    gotta hurt being turned away from a flight pedo boy is allowed on. But what a foot shooting exercise, all it did was delay the announcement of the death for 2 hours while he easyjetted up.

    But this says nothing about the funeral, she'll be there.
    They didn't actually delay the announcement for him to arrive, he was still travelling when they announced it.
    Ah.

    Sideline yourself, end up sidelined.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Sean_F said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    @Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front

    Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves

    In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily


    But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable


    If you’ve not read it already, you might like ‘A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam’ - superb - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bright_Shining_Lie

    Won a Pulitzer.

    Let’s hope the current Ukrainian operations become more Bagration than Tet.

    I actually read that on my first trip to Vietnam

    For me the best book about the war - and there are dozens of excellent examples - is Caputo’s “A Rumor of War”

    https://www.amazon.com/Rumor-War-Classic-Vietnam-Anniversary/dp/1250117127
    Did you read "Kill Anything that Moves" ?
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anything-Moves-American-Empire-Project/dp/1250045061


    Catchy title. Up there with Sean McGlynn's 'Kill them all' about the Albigensian crusade (also the author of 'By Sword an Fire').
    It's a depressing read, but it gives a picture if the sheer scale of the slaughter in Vietnam.
    Its thesis - that My Lai was characteristic rather than an aberration - is disturbing.
    Sean McGlynn's argument (which I think is correct) that the popular depiction of medieval armies running out of control, when they pillaged territories and sacked cities, is wrong. Most of the time, these were brutal and effective military strategies, which were commanded from the top.
    I think it is a pretty standard feature of war, full stop. Hence the ambiguity of the Johnny Mercer "yebbut we don't talk about that" job.
    Sure, you can't win a war, usually, without being cruel to the other side. Morally, there's not a lot of distinction, between the chevauchee, designed to devastate the enemy's economy and inflict starvation on the population, and comprehensive economic sanctions, designed to do much the same.
    Yes, except I imagine if you were a small village in the area of a chevauchee, odds on you got My Laied.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,087
    edited September 2022
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Unfortunately this just makes me kinda proud


    But, most of those countries are quite well-disposed towards Britain. All countries that became independent celebrate that fact.
    Yes, the original author has rather missed the point, especially when he includes the likes of Australia and the USA.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    Driver said:

    I don't know if anyone can confirm that this is true?

    'George V was the cousin of the executed Nicholas II, the last emperor of the Russian Empire. It turns out that Charles III, in a direct line from his great-grandfather, is the great-nephew of Nicholas II, that is, of the currently ruling monarchs, he is the only one who has absolutely legal rights to claim the crown of Russia, if one imagines that Russia, or some part of it, which has the right to succession from of the Russian Empire, would like to restore the monarchy and thus become one of the countries of the British Commonwealth of Nations.'

    The first bit is true and the rest plausible, but I think there are still some living distant relatives of the Romanovs who claim the right to the Russian throne.
    There are direct descent claimants from Alexander 2nd and Nicholas 1st (including Philip and hence Charles)
    Grand Duchess Maria or Alexander Romanov are the main 2 mooted by imperialist russians
    As I understand it Putin had made a bit of an effort to to reinstate the Romanovs into the history of Holy Russia? It’s all quite complicated..
    Yeah, he wants to put them into some sort of symbolic role without formal titles, basically 'live in this palace and be patriotic and unifying but no formal titles and give up any claims to the throne' sort of deal
    Be a living history effectively.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,219
    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    Nicola Sturgeon becomes the first First Minister in history to sign a proclamation document… the Acts of Union and Scotland’s constitutional tie to England loom large in this moment.

    The 'Oath' signed to protect the Protestant Church of Scotland.

    By @nicolasturgeon of @thesnp
    https://twitter.com/truthorbare/status/1568533308476203008/photo/1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,131
    edited September 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Nicola Sturgeon becomes the first First Minister in history to sign a proclamation document… the Acts of Union and Scotland’s constitutional tie to England loom large in this moment.

    The 'Oath' signed to protect the Protestant Church of Scotland.

    By @nicolasturgeon of @thesnp
    https://twitter.com/truthorbare/status/1568533308476203008/photo/1

    Not so much the Protestant but the Presbyterian.

    Edit: more specifically the [Established] Church of Scotland. That was put into the Treaty of Union to keep the ministers happy, like the retention of Scots Law did the lawyers (and also everyone who owned land, for obvious reasons of stability).
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
    I love the civil war costume you get from the Yeomen in the City of London. I always picture a terrorist having a pop and being impaled on a halberd.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,087
    On Russia:

    https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1568392781520936960

    Reading about Ukrainian operations around Kharkiv, I am struck yet again by the reality that the biggest conflict in Europe since World War II is taking place because a not-very-bright mid-level KGB guy thought he could recreate an empire that's already failed at least twice.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    Nah. People won't take Harry's side.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    Also Ceaușescu and Saddam, Vlad, if you're lurking.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Nicola Sturgeon becomes the first First Minister in history to sign a proclamation document… the Acts of Union and Scotland’s constitutional tie to England loom large in this moment.

    The 'Oath' signed to protect the Protestant Church of Scotland.

    By @nicolasturgeon of @thesnp
    https://twitter.com/truthorbare/status/1568533308476203008/photo/1

    Some frothers on that thread. I hold to my opinion that rump Unionism now consists almost entirely of bigots, weirdos and shit Photoshoppers.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
    That is so true. Especially if it's said in a stentorian voice. Reference to Henry VIII optional.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,762
    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    I think it was largely a question of time. They could not wait for him and even they were too late. But I agree it doesn't look good.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    Nah. People won't take Harry's side.
    On most issues, no. If his brother doused him with petrol and set fire to him, probably yes. Punishing him for having an awful wife by refusing him access to his dying grandmother is in that kind of area.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Leon said:

    Could the Kherson Front be in play as well?


    🇺🇦 The Armed Forces of Ukraine are successfully counterrattacking in the south of Ukraine, currently the defenders have advanced several tens of kilometers in various directions – Humeniuk, spokeswoman of the press center of Operational Command "Pivden" (South)

    https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/1568568875754700800?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A

    Go for Kherson for a quicker end - and much tighter pressure on Putin in Moscow - but many many more dead. Alternatively, let's see how the Russians fight now their ammo, food and reserves have been blocked off from reaching them.

    Whoever is now commanding those troops in Kherson has the chance for history to remember him as a humanitarian - or a butcher.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    It's a shame we don't have pre-qualifying in F1 anymore, because then we could read your pre-pre-qualifying posts.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,733

    Scott_xP said:

    Nicola Sturgeon becomes the first First Minister in history to sign a proclamation document… the Acts of Union and Scotland’s constitutional tie to England loom large in this moment.

    The 'Oath' signed to protect the Protestant Church of Scotland.

    By @nicolasturgeon of @thesnp
    https://twitter.com/truthorbare/status/1568533308476203008/photo/1

    Some frothers on that thread. I hold to my opinion that rump Unionism now consists almost entirely of bigots, weirdos and shit Photoshoppers.
    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    Nah. People won't take Harry's side.
    People already took sides a couple of years ago. I doubt anyone is going to change much either way. Yougov have it 34% popular, 41% disliked which feels about right.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    biggles said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
    I love the civil war costume you get from the Yeomen in the City of London. I always picture a terrorist having a pop and being impaled on a halberd.
    Classier, but not as funky, as a narwhal tusk...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    I think it was largely a question of time. They could not wait for him and even they were too late. But I agree it doesn't look good.
    Ah possible, though not easily deduced from "refused a seat."
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,702
    Here’s one for @Dura_Ace given his comments on Chaz’s pudgy fingers https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tv/breaking-worry-mounts-king-charles-27954275
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,219

    Leon said:

    Could the Kherson Front be in play as well?


    🇺🇦 The Armed Forces of Ukraine are successfully counterrattacking in the south of Ukraine, currently the defenders have advanced several tens of kilometers in various directions – Humeniuk, spokeswoman of the press center of Operational Command "Pivden" (South)

    https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/1568568875754700800?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A

    Go for Kherson for a quicker end - and much tighter pressure on Putin in Moscow - but many many more dead. Alternatively, let's see how the Russians fight now their ammo, food and reserves have been blocked off from reaching them.

    Whoever is now commanding those troops in Kherson has the chance for history to remember him as a humanitarian - or a butcher.
    I am sitting in a beautiful Alentejano garden staring at the sunlit olive groves, with a swimming pool awaiting, but I cannot tear myself from social media. Watching a potentially world changing war unfold in real time is quite compelling
  • TimSTimS Posts: 9,151
    Our resident Ukrainian is visibly excited by what has been happening the last 2 days, but also I can tell there’s a feeling of fear. Stalemate you can get mentally used to. When wars of movement open up everything suddenly becomes possible, both good and bad.

    We’re making sure she knows we are following the news, but without going on about it too much.
  • Chatter the Russians have abandoned Lysychansk
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    I think you recently made the point that Billy Bawheid would suffer in comparison to a King Charles who may polish up well. I'm increasingly of the opinion that he's dimly tone deaf, which on the assumption that he runs his own showbiz operation is provable by the Carribean fiasco and stupid stunts like secretly selling the Big Issue, oops, where did all those photographers come from.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    And all so extraordinarily unnecessary. Putin was rich beyond belief. There was not functioning opposition to him in Russia. Across Europe, his friends were likely to be elected, and ditto perhaps in the US.

    The EU and NATO were both facing existential internal crises. Germany was shutting down its nuclear power plants.

    Putin was ascendent.

    And now Russia will be humiliated. And Putin may find himself deposed and likely dead.
    Just as a warning: there's no guarantees that the person who takes over from Putin won't be even more of a nationalist than he is and even worse.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,131
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nicola Sturgeon becomes the first First Minister in history to sign a proclamation document… the Acts of Union and Scotland’s constitutional tie to England loom large in this moment.

    The 'Oath' signed to protect the Protestant Church of Scotland.

    By @nicolasturgeon of @thesnp
    https://twitter.com/truthorbare/status/1568533308476203008/photo/1

    Not so much the Protestant but the Presbyterian.

    Edit: more specifically the [Established] Church of Scotland. That was put into the Treaty of Union to keep the ministers happy, like the retention of Scots Law did the lawyers (and also everyone who owned land, for obvious reasons of stability).
    Come to think of it, the Kirk isn't Established any more - and it hasn't been since the 1920s. So this must be the fourth time they're using an obsolete wording in the Proclamation. How odd.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,565
    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
    That is so true. Especially if it's said in a stentorian voice. Reference to Henry VIII optional.
    'Dates back as far as Anglo Saxon times...'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,733

    Chatter the Russians have abandoned Lysychansk

    If even half of what Twitter is saying is true you begin to wonder whether there will be time for the Russians to stop the advance at Luhansk, never mind anywhere else.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    And all so extraordinarily unnecessary. Putin was rich beyond belief. There was not functioning opposition to him in Russia. Across Europe, his friends were likely to be elected, and ditto perhaps in the US.

    The EU and NATO were both facing existential internal crises. Germany was shutting down its nuclear power plants.

    Putin was ascendent.

    And now Russia will be humiliated. And Putin may find himself deposed and likely dead.
    We probably won't be that fortunate, but you make a good point - he was secure and powerful, influetial well beyond his borders, and he's thrown everything into doubt for an imperial dream that he cannot truly believe was justified or necessary given his wildly divergent explanations.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Unfortunately this just makes me kinda proud


    Why do you hate people taking back control from their unelected rulers?

    Are you a remoaner?
    Even as the child of immigrants I bet a bit of you is *secretly proud* of that map. It is disturbingly impressive
    Yes, really proud of things like the Bengal famine and the Jallianwala Bagh massacre.
    Here's the thing: I've been on here long enough and know you well enough to know that's bollocks. You used to post regularly about our "wonderful history" including imperial links and heritage.

    You changed your tune post Brexit because you wanted an angle to troll that would grate, and thought this a profitable one.

    And so it has proven. You are no Wokey leftist.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 3,769
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    Also Ceaușescu and Saddam
    , Vlad, if you're lurking.
    He would probably be wise to start gathering his loot and finding somewhere that will give him asylum and live out his days without a bayonet up his backside.

    Maybe there is a suite for him at Mar a Lago.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,131
    Nigelb said:

    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
    That is so true. Especially if it's said in a stentorian voice. Reference to Henry VIII optional.
    'Dates back as far as Anglo Saxon times...'
    Must be one of those Whig reformers one of us mentioned earlier.
  • Nigelb said:

    Dynamo said:

    kle4 said:

    kjh said:

    I was a bit confused as to why there was a Cossack with the biggest sword ever seen being held upside down at the 2nd proclamation. Had they run out of appropriate costumes at the fancy dress shop.

    You could put anything in these ceremonies and if anyone questions it just say it is tradition.
    That is so true. Especially if it's said in a stentorian voice. Reference to Henry VIII optional.
    'Dates back as far as Anglo Saxon times...'
    What's Anglo Saxon for bollox? Oh, so it is.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    And all so extraordinarily unnecessary. Putin was rich beyond belief. There was not functioning opposition to him in Russia. Across Europe, his friends were likely to be elected, and ditto perhaps in the US.

    The EU and NATO were both facing existential internal crises. Germany was shutting down its nuclear power plants.

    Putin was ascendent.

    And now Russia will be humiliated. And Putin may find himself deposed and likely dead.
    Just as a warning: there's no guarantees that the person who takes over from Putin won't be even more of a nationalist than he is and even worse.
    Yeah.

    But the reality is that Russia has been defeated militarily.

    Now, sure, whoever follows Putin might be worse. But he'll be a lot poorer worse, and he's going to be focused on keeping Russia together in the medium term.

    Russia's capacity for offensive operations has been utterly destroyed.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 2022

    Leon said:

    Pretty clear Russia is now losing this war, and badly, and swiftly

    Putin has two cards to play:

    1 claim it is now total war against NATO, and mobilize the nation

    2 some form of nuclear chaos. Either zap the Zap plant, or drop tactical nukes


    Trouble is 1 would be supremely unpopular in Russia, especially in his own elite circles, and it is not clear how 2 benefits Russia, other than sowing chaos and fear everywhere

    3. Call for ceasefire and hope something turns up?
    Couldn't they use tactical nukes to cover a retreat? (Just asking.) Or the threat of using them.
  • The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    More a Kraft Cheesey Pasta woman I believe, sucked the orange powder straight from the packet like a good 'un.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    TimS said:

    Our resident Ukrainian is visibly excited by what has been happening the last 2 days, but also I can tell there’s a feeling of fear. Stalemate you can get mentally used to. When wars of movement open up everything suddenly becomes possible, both good and bad.

    We’re making sure she knows we are following the news, but without going on about it too much.

    Ours don't seem to care or are actively avoiding the news. They are from Kharkov and are ethnically, culturally and linguistically Russian like many of the Ukrainians refugees - most of the really fucked up places are in the east.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    edited September 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    And all so extraordinarily unnecessary. Putin was rich beyond belief. There was not functioning opposition to him in Russia. Across Europe, his friends were likely to be elected, and ditto perhaps in the US.

    The EU and NATO were both facing existential internal crises. Germany was shutting down its nuclear power plants.

    Putin was ascendent.

    And now Russia will be humiliated. And Putin may find himself deposed and likely dead.
    It’s hard to think of a precedent for something so self-destructive isn’t it? But then. I suppose, going back, we were none of us sure the west would reunite over this. Thanks to Zelensky (and actually, on this one, from a small number of brave leaders including Boris) we did.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Could the Kherson Front be in play as well?


    🇺🇦 The Armed Forces of Ukraine are successfully counterrattacking in the south of Ukraine, currently the defenders have advanced several tens of kilometers in various directions – Humeniuk, spokeswoman of the press center of Operational Command "Pivden" (South)

    https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/1568568875754700800?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A

    Go for Kherson for a quicker end - and much tighter pressure on Putin in Moscow - but many many more dead. Alternatively, let's see how the Russians fight now their ammo, food and reserves have been blocked off from reaching them.

    Whoever is now commanding those troops in Kherson has the chance for history to remember him as a humanitarian - or a butcher.
    I am sitting in a beautiful Alentejano garden staring at the sunlit olive groves, with a swimming pool awaiting, but I cannot tear myself from social media. Watching a potentially world changing war unfold in real time is quite compelling
    The fact you can now follow wars almost instantaneously - with supporting gruesome clips - is a remarkable turn of events. It has become somewhat of a sporting spectacle - cheering your own side on or trolling the victors. It is also utterly compelling and very bad news for those of us with obsessive compulsive natures.

    Gone are the days when you got the latest war updates from Pheidippides who had run 26 miles with the news - then dropped down dead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,733
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nicola Sturgeon becomes the first First Minister in history to sign a proclamation document… the Acts of Union and Scotland’s constitutional tie to England loom large in this moment.

    The 'Oath' signed to protect the Protestant Church of Scotland.

    By @nicolasturgeon of @thesnp
    https://twitter.com/truthorbare/status/1568533308476203008/photo/1

    Not so much the Protestant but the Presbyterian.

    Edit: more specifically the [Established] Church of Scotland. That was put into the Treaty of Union to keep the ministers happy, like the retention of Scots Law did the lawyers (and also everyone who owned land, for obvious reasons of stability).
    Come to think of it, the Kirk isn't Established any more - and it hasn't been since the 1920s. So this must be the fourth time they're using an obsolete wording in the Proclamation. How odd.
    No, it is still established as the National Church, it’s just the government gave up the right to make appointments or to guide it on matters spiritual (ie overrule the Declaratory Articles). This is separate from that and undertaking that it will remain the National Church without being replaced by any other.

    So it does make sense in that context.

    It was also, I might add, the only way it could recognise the distinctive status of Scotland within the United Kingdom before the establishment of a Scottish Parliament, as the CoS was about the only truly National body going. And not just a religious one either. When did it lose substantial control of education? I want to say 1944?
  • ydoethur said:

    Chatter the Russians have abandoned Lysychansk

    If even half of what Twitter is saying is true you begin to wonder whether there will be time for the Russians to stop the advance at Luhansk, never mind anywhere else.

    It wouldn't be a surprise if a third thrust is coming, probably towards Melitopol. There have been comments that partisans have been putting up flags in Mariupol as well .

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    More a Kraft Cheesey Pasta woman I believe, sucked the orange powder straight from the packet like a good 'un.
    I did like hearing that when HM had fish and chips, she insisted that the chips be stacked into a tower.

    Oh, the power of being a monarch.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Could the Kherson Front be in play as well?


    🇺🇦 The Armed Forces of Ukraine are successfully counterrattacking in the south of Ukraine, currently the defenders have advanced several tens of kilometers in various directions – Humeniuk, spokeswoman of the press center of Operational Command "Pivden" (South)

    https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/1568568875754700800?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A

    Go for Kherson for a quicker end - and much tighter pressure on Putin in Moscow - but many many more dead. Alternatively, let's see how the Russians fight now their ammo, food and reserves have been blocked off from reaching them.

    Whoever is now commanding those troops in Kherson has the chance for history to remember him as a humanitarian - or a butcher.
    I am sitting in a beautiful Alentejano garden staring at the sunlit olive groves, with a swimming pool awaiting, but I cannot tear myself from social media. Watching a potentially world changing war unfold in real time is quite compelling
    The fact you can now follow wars almost instantaneously - with supporting gruesome clips - is a remarkable turn of events. It has become somewhat of a sporting spectacle - cheering your own side on or trolling the victors. It is also utterly compelling and very bad news for those of us with obsessive compulsive natures.

    Gone are the days when you got the latest war updates from Pheidippides who had run 26 miles with the news - then dropped down dead.
    An outcome not without its attractions after barrages from the more breathless twitter war correspondents.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    And all so extraordinarily unnecessary. Putin was rich beyond belief. There was not functioning opposition to him in Russia. Across Europe, his friends were likely to be elected, and ditto perhaps in the US.

    The EU and NATO were both facing existential internal crises. Germany was shutting down its nuclear power plants.

    Putin was ascendent.

    And now Russia will be humiliated. And Putin may find himself deposed and likely dead.
    Just as a warning: there's no guarantees that the person who takes over from Putin won't be even more of a nationalist than he is and even worse.
    Yeah.

    But the reality is that Russia has been defeated militarily.

    Now, sure, whoever follows Putin might be worse. But he'll be a lot poorer worse, and he's going to be focused on keeping Russia together in the medium term.

    Russia's capacity for offensive operations has been utterly destroyed.
    So what does the Russian state do next?

    Best for the country would presumably for Putin to have an accident involving a window, then the state withdraws to its borders and be very very very quiet and not annoy anyone for a long time. Accept the reality that, apart from nukes, they don't have any power to do much else.

    Don't see it happpening that way, though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:

    Our resident Ukrainian is visibly excited by what has been happening the last 2 days, but also I can tell there’s a feeling of fear. Stalemate you can get mentally used to. When wars of movement open up everything suddenly becomes possible, both good and bad.

    We’re making sure she knows we are following the news, but without going on about it too much.

    Ours don't seem to care or are actively avoiding the news. They are from Kharkov and are ethnically, culturally and linguistically Russian like many of the Ukrainians refugees - most of the really fucked up places are in the east.
    My business partner's Ukrainian family includes a mother who is a crack shot. She's keeping her head down hoping she doesn't have to go back - and immediately get enlisted.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    Factory visit. Trade show. I reckon she ate a load of random shite.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    biggles said:

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    Factory visit. Trade show. I reckon she ate a load of random shite.
    I like to think the crispy pancake eluded her. And she got through 96 years without ever having a yellow opal fruit.
    Those were her red lines.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957

    Chatter the Russians have abandoned Lysychansk

    Which would put most of Luhansk and Donetsk within HIMARS range.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,733

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    I had to eat those regularly as a child because my sister loved them.

    They were utterly vile. I don’t think I ever finished one.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    More a Kraft Cheesey Pasta woman I believe, sucked the orange powder straight from the packet like a good 'un.
    I did like hearing that when HM had fish and chips, she insisted that the chips be stacked into a tower.

    Oh, the power of being a monarch.
    Jenga chips. Proper
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    biggles said:

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    Factory visit. Trade show. I reckon she ate a load of random shite.
    I like to think the crispy pancake eluded her. And she got through 96 years without ever having a yellow opal fruit.
    Those were her red lines.
    After the Findus chow mein with the crispy noodles she said “never again”.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Could the Kherson Front be in play as well?


    🇺🇦 The Armed Forces of Ukraine are successfully counterrattacking in the south of Ukraine, currently the defenders have advanced several tens of kilometers in various directions – Humeniuk, spokeswoman of the press center of Operational Command "Pivden" (South)

    https://twitter.com/pravda_eng/status/1568568875754700800?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A

    Go for Kherson for a quicker end - and much tighter pressure on Putin in Moscow - but many many more dead. Alternatively, let's see how the Russians fight now their ammo, food and reserves have been blocked off from reaching them.

    Whoever is now commanding those troops in Kherson has the chance for history to remember him as a humanitarian - or a butcher.
    I am sitting in a beautiful Alentejano garden staring at the sunlit olive groves, with a swimming pool awaiting, but I cannot tear myself from social media. Watching a potentially world changing war unfold in real time is quite compelling
    The fact you can now follow wars almost instantaneously - with supporting gruesome clips - is a remarkable turn of events. It has become somewhat of a sporting spectacle - cheering your own side on or trolling the victors. It is also utterly compelling and very bad news for those of us with obsessive compulsive natures.

    Gone are the days when you got the latest war updates from Pheidippides who had run 26 miles with the news - then dropped down dead.
    An outcome not without its attractions after barrages from the more breathless twitter war correspondents.
    Not as breathless as Pheidippides....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,565
    The arsenal captured in Balakliya is reportedly 5 sq km in size. Combine that with every other warehouse, RU base, rail station, supply point, car park, et. abandoned throughout the oblast, and Russia has now become the number one supplier of weapons to Ukraine by far
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NixHex33/status/1568580948731609088

    Hopefully in the process of being emptied, just in case the Russians get their shit together and try bombing it.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,522
    edited September 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    I think it was largely a question of time. They could not wait for him and even they were too late. But I agree it doesn't look good.
    Ah possible, though not easily deduced from "refused a seat."
    I interpreted it as "he was still arguing for Meghan to be able to go at the time he would have had to leave to catch the flight, and his team is spinning this as a refusal".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    Dura_Ace said:

    TimS said:

    Our resident Ukrainian is visibly excited by what has been happening the last 2 days, but also I can tell there’s a feeling of fear. Stalemate you can get mentally used to. When wars of movement open up everything suddenly becomes possible, both good and bad.

    We’re making sure she knows we are following the news, but without going on about it too much.

    Ours don't seem to care or are actively avoiding the news. They are from Kharkov and are ethnically, culturally and linguistically Russian like many of the Ukrainians refugees - most of the really fucked up places are in the east.
    I wonder how many of the millions of refugees will want to go back. A fair number will probably prefer their new life.

    We had one in clinic the other day, in tears at how kindly he had been treated here.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,827
    biggles said:

    biggles said:

    The madness of King Woolie has set in. I just gave a minute to considering if Her Majesty ever tried a Findus Crispy Pancake.
    I could not come up with scenario in which she had.

    Factory visit. Trade show. I reckon she ate a load of random shite.
    I like to think the crispy pancake eluded her. And she got through 96 years without ever having a yellow opal fruit.
    Those were her red lines.
    After the Findus chow mein with the crispy noodles she said “never again”.
    She got through the 8os on Menu Masters though
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,957
    Nigelb said:

    The arsenal captured in Balakliya is reportedly 5 sq km in size. Combine that with every other warehouse, RU base, rail station, supply point, car park, et. abandoned throughout the oblast, and Russia has now become the number one supplier of weapons to Ukraine by far
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NixHex33/status/1568580948731609088

    Hopefully in the process of being emptied, just in case the Russians get their shit together and try bombing it.

    Somebody is getting a bollocking back at base for not putting a timer on a bomb there....

    You have to be REALLY panicked to leave that much kit for the enemy to find.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    Nigelb said:

    The arsenal captured in Balakliya is reportedly 5 sq km in size. Combine that with every other warehouse, RU base, rail station, supply point, car park, et. abandoned throughout the oblast, and Russia has now become the number one supplier of weapons to Ukraine by far
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NixHex33/status/1568580948731609088

    Hopefully in the process of being emptied, just in case the Russians get their shit together and try bombing it.

    Surprised it hadn't already had the HIMARS treatment.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    Driver said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    I think it was largely a question of time. They could not wait for him and even they were too late. But I agree it doesn't look good.
    Ah possible, though not easily deduced from "refused a seat."
    I interpreted it as "he was still arguing for Meghan to be able to go at the time he would have had to
    leave to catch the flight, and his team is spinning this as a refusal".
    We will hear all about it from Meghan via Oprah soon enough. Well, we will hear a view. “Recollections May differ”.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    edited September 2022
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The arsenal captured in Balakliya is reportedly 5 sq km in size. Combine that with every other warehouse, RU base, rail station, supply point, car park, et. abandoned throughout the oblast, and Russia has now become the number one supplier of weapons to Ukraine by far
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NixHex33/status/1568580948731609088

    Hopefully in the process of being emptied, just in case the Russians get their shit together and try bombing it.

    Surprised it hadn't already had the HIMARS treatment.
    At a certain stage I guess Ukraine has to be aware of making damn sure it gives no space for Russia to make marginally more credible comparisons with the Nazis.
  • Nigelb said:

    The arsenal captured in Balakliya is reportedly 5 sq km in size. Combine that with every other warehouse, RU base, rail station, supply point, car park, et. abandoned throughout the oblast, and Russia has now become the number one supplier of weapons to Ukraine by far
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NixHex33/status/1568580948731609088

    Hopefully in the process of being emptied, just in case the Russians get their shit together and try bombing it.

    Somebody is getting a bollocking back at base for not putting a timer on a bomb there....

    You have to be REALLY panicked to leave that much kit for the enemy to find.
    How's the infinite Russian ammo looking now @Dura_Ace ?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,800
    Leon said:

    Pro Russians on Twitter saying Putin has humiliated Russia

    “Mr President - its time to start something serious

    - or we should call off the Military Operation.
    There is no third option.
    @mod_russia @KremlinRussia_E”

    Whole thread fascinating


    https://twitter.com/ukraine66251776/status/1568542731021991937?s=21&t=9cQpVOzlba1bzUhki1RJ4A

    I did enjoy this image part-way through the thread :


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,766
    biggles said:

    Driver said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    DavidL said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Dynamo said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dynamo said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    ping said:

    FPT;

    ping said:

    Charles’s “kind” comments about Harry and Meghan need to be seen in the context of Harry’s book deal. The firm are terrified about it’s contents.

    Thanks to events, they’ve got H&M pinned down. This is their one and only opportunity.

    I’d love to be a fly on the wall!

    If Charles was smart, he’d recognise that Liz’s disastrous “no half-in-half-out” policy was a major factor contributing to the current situation.
    Meghan and Harry's standing among the British people is not quite as bad as Prince Andrew's, but it's a long way below everyone else in the royal family. I don't think they are any sort of threat, however much insight they provide into the problems faced by titled multi-millionaires.
    I am far less worried about them than I was 2 years ago, when I think they did real political damage - particularly in the Carribean and amongst younger non-white Britons here.

    But, they've shot their bolt now.
    Hmm. Arguably Harry identified the right question (what does the Spare Heir do once they're not needed any more?) and had a better answer than his uncles (get the hell out of Dodge and do something else with the rest of his life).

    Which is not the answer that the tabloids wanted. And some of the fuckups on the way have been blown up into great evil as a result.
    He could have chosen to withdraw from public life and work hard for his charities and causes.

    Instead, he (and his wife) has built his ‘career’ on criticising his own family - something which was quickly wearing off before the events of this week.
    You'll love Harry's book launch. Especially if it's at the Al Fayed place in Finland.

    Why shouldn't a person criticise family members if they've treated them like absolute dirt? In real life, people do it all the time. Who TF does the king think he is?

    I wonder whether Harry will be allowed to his grandmother's funeral.
    Of course he will, he went to Philip's
    I wouldn't be so sure of that.

    "Prince Harry was told not to bring Meghan Markle with him when he flew up to see the Queen as she died."

    "It is understood Harry was at Frogmore cottage in Windsor when Charles called to say he should not bring his wife.

    The Sussexes had announced they would travel up to Balmoral together, without consulting royals, The Sun reported.

    But a source told the paper: "Charles told Harry that it wasn't right or appropriate for Meghan to be in Balmoral at such a deeply sad time.

    'It was pointed out to him that Kate was not going and that the numbers really should be limited to the very closest family. Charles made it very, very clear Meghan would not be welcome.' [...]

    Harry was also refused a seat on the RAF plane that took up his brother William, now the Prince of Wales, as well as Prince Andrew and Prince Edward.
    "
    Thinking further about that, what an utterly appalling piece of shittiness declining to give your own brother a lift to see his dying grandmother. I don't do the Daily Mail blood boiling about the Royal Family thing, but that is as spiteful a bit of shittiness as it is possible to imagine.

    The RAF lot got to balmoral at 5pm so landed Aberdeen say 1545 so left London 1415. So he has been told to fuck off by 2 pm absolute latest. So either he was - almost incredibly - deprived of the chance of final words with his grandmother, or everyone involved knew she was dead by then anyway (and it is still a jawdropping bit of petty shittiness).

    We are straight into a Royal crisis when people cotton on to this.
    I think it was largely a question of time. They could not wait for him and even they were too late. But I agree it doesn't look good.
    Ah possible, though not easily deduced from "refused a seat."
    I interpreted it as "he was still arguing for Meghan to be able to go at the time he would have had to
    leave to catch the flight, and his team is spinning this as a refusal".
    We will hear all about it from Meghan via Oprah soon enough. Well, we will hear a view. “Recollections May differ”.

    You didn't hear?

    Oprah has run away from Meghan, selling her Santa Barbara mansion to Jennifer Anniston of all people.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    Leon said:

    Why are republicans so angry?

    We have been very reverential and polite at the passing of HMQ. Although the BBC coverage is becoming tiresome now.
    SO GO AND WATCH YOUTUBE

    Seriously. What is the problem. Has Prince Andrew superglued you to the TV with the Bakelite switch set to “the BBC from London. London calling”???
    No but my Bakelite television box only has three channels and they are all wall to wall monarchy, likewise the Home Service on the wireless.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Nigelb said:

    The arsenal captured in Balakliya is reportedly 5 sq km in size. Combine that with every other warehouse, RU base, rail station, supply point, car park, et. abandoned throughout the oblast, and Russia has now become the number one supplier of weapons to Ukraine by far
    https://mobile.twitter.com/NixHex33/status/1568580948731609088

    Hopefully in the process of being emptied, just in case the Russians get their shit together and try bombing it.

    Somebody is getting a bollocking back at base for not putting a timer on a bomb there....

    You have to be REALLY panicked to leave that much kit for the enemy to find.
    How's the infinite Russian ammo looking now @Dura_Ace ?
    Having taken the logistics hubs, very profitable for Ukraine I imagine.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,735
    rcs1000 said:

    God Damn it, I hate it when Macron says or does something I approve of. Cognitive dissonance spins up, and I really struggle to cope.

    So.

    Big breath.

    Nice tribute, Emmanuel.

    Better than any of our pols, so far
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sean_F said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    Leon said:

    @Nigelb its like the Tet Offensive in its use of partisan warfare/sabotage behind American lines, all synchronised superbly with an outright attack on the front

    Tet came as a total shock to the USA, at a time when the Americans complacently thought the war was quietening down with no major moves

    In many ways thereafter the Tet was a failure for Hanoi and the Yanks pushed the VC back quite easily


    But Tet broke the American will to fight. It showed Americans at home the war was unwinnable and the North would never give up, and would endure any cost. From that moment Saigon 73 was inevitable


    If you’ve not read it already, you might like ‘A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam’ - superb - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Bright_Shining_Lie

    Won a Pulitzer.

    Let’s hope the current Ukrainian operations become more Bagration than Tet.

    I actually read that on my first trip to Vietnam

    For me the best book about the war - and there are dozens of excellent examples - is Caputo’s “A Rumor of War”

    https://www.amazon.com/Rumor-War-Classic-Vietnam-Anniversary/dp/1250117127
    Did you read "Kill Anything that Moves" ?
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anything-Moves-American-Empire-Project/dp/1250045061


    Catchy title. Up there with Sean McGlynn's 'Kill them all' about the Albigensian crusade (also the author of 'By Sword an Fire').
    It's a depressing read, but it gives a picture if the sheer scale of the slaughter in Vietnam.
    Its thesis - that My Lai was characteristic rather than an aberration - is disturbing.
    Sean McGlynn's argument (which I think is correct) that the popular depiction of medieval armies running out of control, when they pillaged territories and sacked cities, is wrong. Most of the time, these were brutal and effective military strategies, which were commanded from the top.
    I think it is a pretty standard feature of war, full stop. Hence the ambiguity of the Johnny Mercer "yebbut we don't talk about that" job.
    Sure, you can't win a war, usually, without being cruel to the other side. Morally, there's not a lot of distinction, between the chevauchee, designed to devastate the enemy's economy and inflict starvation on the population, and comprehensive economic sanctions, designed to do much the same.
    Yes, except I imagine if you were a small village in the area of a chevauchee, odds on you got My Laied.
    Certainly. Murder, rape, and arson, were a feature, not a bug, of the chevauchee.
  • ydoethur said:

    Chatter the Russians have abandoned Lysychansk

    If even half of what Twitter is saying is true you begin to wonder whether there will be time for the Russians to stop the advance at Luhansk, never mind anywhere else.
    The route into Crimea is narrow enough that they can hold the line there, probably through the winter. Not sure about anywhere else.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,219
    Moreover, Russia’s
    Cicero said:

    Watching town after town being liberated by the Ukrainian armed forces today has been incredibly moving. From the Estonian perspective, the sense of gratitude for the appalling price that Ukrainians have had to pay is immense. The courage and determination of the Ukrainian nation is literally awe inspiring. As the defeat grows into an ever greater and faster rout, the outlook for the Russian army changes faster than ever. We hear of partisans already in Mariupol, and a further crushing defeat in Kherson. The Ukrainian reserve has not yet been released, so unless the Russian front line can be consolidated within a matter of hours, we could see the rout become a collapse.

    Our hopes are fixed and even if this is not the end, the achievements of the past few hours are immense. Glory to Ukraine indeed.

    Looking at the map one could see the Ukes chopping the Russian force in two by driving to the Black Sea around azov

    Leaving Crimea isolated and only accessible by sea and by that bridge
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Leon said:

    Why are republicans so angry?

    We have been very reverential and polite at the passing of HMQ. Although the BBC coverage is becoming tiresome now.
    SO GO AND WATCH YOUTUBE

    Seriously. What is the problem. Has Prince Andrew superglued you to the TV with the Bakelite switch set to “the BBC from London. London calling”???
    No but my Bakelite television box only has three channels and they are all wall to wall monarchy, likewise the Home Service on the wireless.
    Three words. Test Match Special.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    Russia seems to be in full retreat.

    @christogrozev
    If the Russian army left Svatovo as this guy says on camera - and Svatovo is about 60 km from the nearest town taken over by Ukraine - this would be the first case of retreat long before even attempting to defend a long-held position. Something bigger must be brewing inside if so


    https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1568561436032483330

    There is precedent...

    https://youtu.be/P4kQvkvGi9M

    I think what they are doing is finding a line that they can reinforce and resupply to the required level and, unfortunately for them, that's a long way back given their loss of railway lines and supply depots around Izyum. Stopping a panicking rout, however, is one of the most difficult things in the military playbook.
    The Russian border might end up as the only option. They know the Ukes won’t cross

    But what a humiliation for Putin
    I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop, fearing resilient counter counter attack, but for the sake of Ukraine it's nice to believe for a bit.
    There's no particular reason to suppose that a Russian counter-attack is on the way. Insofar as one can see, most of the Russian armed forces are crap and many of the best units have been sent to shore up Kherson.

    If the Ukrainians really have seized both Izyum and Kupiansk then that implies the collapse of the Russian positions west of the Oskil river, i.e. the liberation of most of the occupied areas of the Kharkiv oblast. If the bridges across the river are taken intact then they might even be able to strike right through into the north of the Luhansk oblast, where the Russians only recently celebrated the completion of their conquest. These are the kinds of reverses that the Russian state is going to find increasingly hard to hide from, or explain to, its people.
    Putin can see his end is theoretically in sight. He is said to be obsessed with the awful end of Gadaffi. A perilous moment for the world
    Also Ceaușescu and Saddam, Vlad, if you're lurking.
    Maybe we should use Mar A Largo as a refuge for the world's dictators, rather than have them fight to the bitter end.
  • Leon said:

    Major *Saddam Hussein casually strolling around the market as he loses the war* vibe in this strange video

    https://twitter.com/marcofattorini/status/1568562323761119233?s=21&t=p8s_X0TUkFjpaomgeBRPeg

    Also, what is wrong with Putin’s left arm? He rarely uses it, of late

    Hasn't it long been speculated that Putin's stiff left arm is due to his KGB training to hide the bulge in his jacket when carrying a gun? At one point in your video he does use it to scratch his ear so it is clearly not paralysed.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339
    Very NATO soldier on the border needs nerves of iron to avoid an incident today.
This discussion has been closed.