Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
"On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British"
But this is basically untrue, and provably untrue, as I have told you countless times
The largest slavers of Africans were Muslims, and it went on for much longer (and was finally stopped by the British Empire)
The Brits have a complex history with slavery, some of it utterly shameful (the slavery), some of it noble (the abolition). There is no need to make up shit
So fucking what? Why does muslim slaving alter the case against Britain? Do you mitigate Fred West's crimes because Harold Shipton outperformed him?
And if I kick 60 old ladies to death, and then resolve to spare the last three and stop everybody else from kicking them to death too, really how "complex" is my relationship with old lady kicking?
I'm saying you are factually wrong, you weird Woke foxhunting Tory, and facts matter
It's great that late in life you have become agitated by imperial crimes - they certainly exist - but you need to ground your anger in history, not drunken emotion, and you need to realise the context, which matters. EVERY dominant society enslaved people from 2000BC-1900AD
But if pointless boozed-up tragic guilt-wanking gets you off, knock yerself out
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
# yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in
Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.
Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
I doubt the Queen will be happy
I expect the Queen will be privately furious, the aftermath of the above in the nations mentioned in the Commonwealth could make this week's Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion look like a model of harmony
Some hysterical pearl clutching going on!
It was a “blink and you’d miss it” moment where a handful of athletes carrying alphabet flags (not the traditional rainbow ones) accompanied Tom Daly onto the track, who then set off alone as part of the baton relay. Less than a minute of a two and a half hour ceremony.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims.
The British transported less than half the total number of Jews exterminated in the Holocaust by the Nazis as slaves to the Americas, let alone killed them. Indeed less than 5% died on the voyage.
That does not excuse it but it was not comparable to the Holocaust
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
# yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in
Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.
Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
I doubt the Queen will be happy
I expect the Queen will be privately furious, the aftermath of the above in the nations mentioned in the Commonwealth could make this week's Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion look like a model of harmony
Some hysterical pearl clutching going on!
It was a “blink and you’d miss it” moment where a handful of athletes carrying alphabet flags (not the traditional rainbow ones) accompanied Tom Daly onto the track, who then set off alone as part of the baton relay. Less than a minute of a two and a half hour ceremony.
Drinking unto silliness seems popular on PB these days.
I blame the Tory government.
Which one? There are three. Soon to be four to choose from. One of them was evil, one misguided, the other incompetent. But. Rest assured this coming one will be lovingly benign.
The academic argument now is whether the British Empire (now trading as the UK), nay, Western capitalism, is irredeemably steeped in the blood of slavery, and must therefore be dismantled outright.
Don't be bloody stupid, you are normally brighter than that.
Think about modern Germans. On the one hand you don't presumably ask them to nuke themselves from orbit as reparation for the holocaust. Equally and on the other hand, you don't expect them to run these utterly dickless arguments about: People have always persecuted Jews, the muslims hate jews too, jews would never have made it to the camps without assistance from other jews, the Hungarians were at it too, we really backed off from the whole holocaust thang in 1945, blah blah.
There's a reason for the "truth" in "truth and reconciliation" and there's a reason why holocaust denial is illegal. The descendants of slaves deserve the truth and are not getting it.
Quite easy to do, probably needs a bit more heat (it's an American recipe), and a delicious, tasty variation on an Asian coconut fish curry. More lime and astringency, less sweetness, and totes yum
Had it with basmati/wild rice and a flash fried, garlicky cavolo nero
Is this a cook-yourself-meal-in-a-box?
Not really. But only takes about 40 minutes to prep and cook. And I find that just right for a personal supper. Enough complexity to be absorbing and fun - during which you can slosh the wine (but not as much as @IshmaelZ or @CorrectHorseBattery) but not hours of tricksiness which isn't worth it
And it really is flavoursome. An intriguing, citrussy tweak on Asian fish curries from Goa or Thailand
That's fine, but I was thinking it's a piss-poor recipe - by which I mean the dish looks superb but the recipe has no quantities or instructions...
...Then on checking again I see the proper recipe is there at the the bottom of the page. 🤦🏻♂️
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
The academic argument now is whether the British Empire (now trading as the UK), nay, Western capitalism, is irredeemably steeped in the blood of slavery, and must therefore be dismantled outright.
Don't be bloody stupid, you are normally brighter than that.
Think about modern Germans. On the one hand you don't presumably ask them to nuke themselves from orbit as reparation for the holocaust. Equally and on the other hand, you don't expect them to run these utterly dickless arguments about: People have always persecuted Jews, the muslims hate jews too, jews would never have made it to the camps without assistance from other jews, the Hungarians were at it too, we really backed off from the whole holocaust thang in 1945, blah blah.
There's a reason for the "truth" in "truth and reconciliation" and there's a reason why holocaust denial is illegal. The descendants of slaves deserve the truth and are not getting it.
Which truth is being obscured?
My own view is that the counter arguments you satirise are weak, but are provoked by repugnance at the idea that British slavery is equivalent to the Holocaust.
The academic argument now is whether the British Empire (now trading as the UK), nay, Western capitalism, is irredeemably steeped in the blood of slavery, and must therefore be dismantled outright.
Don't be bloody stupid, you are normally brighter than that.
Think about modern Germans. On the one hand you don't presumably ask them to nuke themselves from orbit as reparation for the holocaust. Equally and on the other hand, you don't expect them to run these utterly dickless arguments about: People have always persecuted Jews, the muslims hate jews too, jews would never have made it to the camps without assistance from other jews, the Hungarians were at it too, we really backed off from the whole holocaust thang in 1945, blah blah.
There's a reason for the "truth" in "truth and reconciliation" and there's a reason why holocaust denial is illegal. The descendants of slaves deserve the truth and are not getting it.
What truth ate they not getting? What element of slavery is being covered up? It is a big part of the school curriculum and features in numerous museums around the country. It would be hard to be more explicit about it.
Drinking unto silliness seems popular on PB these days.
I blame the Tory government.
Which one? There are three. Soon to be four to choose from. One of them was evil, one misguided, the other incompetent. But. Rest assured this coming one will be assured to be lovingly benign.
I suspect the coming one may combine the worse elements of the previous three.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
# yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in
Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.
Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
I doubt the Queen will be happy
I expect the Queen will be privately furious, the aftermath of the above in the nations mentioned in the Commonwealth could make this week's Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion look like a model of harmony
Some hysterical pearl clutching going on!
It was a “blink and you’d miss it” moment where a handful of athletes carrying alphabet flags (not the traditional rainbow ones) accompanied Tom Daly onto the track, who then set off alone as part of the baton relay. Less than a minute of a two and a half hour ceremony.
I am not sure the length of it is the point
It’s visibility is the point. Gay athlete accompanied on to track by alphabet flags. The reaction of some here you’d expect there was a roll call of the offending countries with flag carriers forced to publicly abase themselves in penance. Did any of those complaining actually SEE what happened?
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
Slavery is a great injustice and crime, but it cannot be considered on a moral par with the final solution. Slaves must be kept alive, and one assumes in relatively good nick, to be of use as slaves. Had the Nazis merely enslaved the Jewish race, it would have been a far lesser crime, and the victims would have survived the war in far greater numbers.
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
I don't think what you're describing is pegging. I don't think pegging existed before the invention of the strap-on dildo, though history is vague on the precise date.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
You will regret this tomorrow. Rein it in
Literally, I have had exactly one bottle of riesling at (checks label) 11.5% vol. Sobriety.
And here's James VI and I, not in an encrypted private diary but a letter to the Privy Council
"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men. You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his John, and I have my George."
It's very good for @HYUFD to meditate on this text.
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
Gary Lineker (apparently bullied for being tanned at school) woudl so love to be "white passing"
Its a good job he is all the "right" opinions on everything, otherwise his BS claims could have led to serious issues, given somebody like Michael Vaughan gets benched because of a handful of BBC employees claim they feel unsafe because he might (or might not) have said one iffy thing once 15 years ago (and his actual actions were only described positively).
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
Well slavery may not have been pleasant but it was not extermination in the gas chambers.
No matter your leftwing ideological agenda to equate the British Empire with the Nazi regime as you despise the heritage of the country you live in and show complete disrespect to its head of state, as a matter of historical fact it was not.
And your usual juvenile insults will not change that
Drinking unto silliness seems popular on PB these days.
I blame the Tory government.
Which one? There are three. Soon to be four to choose from. One of them was evil, one misguided, the other incompetent. But. Rest assured this coming one will be assured to be lovingly benign.
I suspect the coming one may combine the worse elements of the previous three.
Let's hope not. It's the same people on the same deckchairs. Expecting us to forget it isn't. They're straining "you can't fool all of the people all of the time" to its limit.
Tweeted in March that the next wave of legal action will be in respect of gender identity and children. Closing the Tavistock will accelerate that process. Interesting to see which solicitors firms do the work. I predict a police investigation into the Tavistock by June 2023.
We’re in the extraordinary position that drugs prescribed to children as safe & reversible appear not to have yet been the subject to clinical trials in respect of the purpose for which those children received them. There is thus unlikely to be informed consent to taking them.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
You will regret this tomorrow. Rein it in
Literally, I have had exactly one bottle of riesling at (checks label) 11.5% vol. Sobriety.
And here's James VI and I, not in an encrypted private diary but a letter to the Privy Council
"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men. You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his John, and I have my George."
It's very good for @HYUFD to meditate on this text.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
I don't think what you're describing is pegging. I don't think pegging existed before the invention of the strap-on dildo, though history is vague on the precise date.
Valid point. though dildos, and leather straps, were probably fairly early developments. Much easier than the wheel.
And there's an expression which always annoys me: inventing the wheel is easy, it's inventing the axle which is the breakthrough.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
Our dear old friend @IshmaelZ has, I believe, just discovered that imperialism has a dark side, and - wow - they used to sell people!
It's like me discovering the death penalty
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY WOULD HANG THEM FROM ROPES
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
You will regret this tomorrow. Rein it in
Literally, I have had exactly one bottle of riesling at (checks label) 11.5% vol. Sobriety.
And here's James VI and I, not in an encrypted private diary but a letter to the Privy Council
"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men. You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his John, and I have my George."
It's very good for @HYUFD to meditate on this text.
So what if he did. In case you noticed homosexuality and gay marriage are legal in the UK now, it is mainly non white majority nations where homosexuality is still illegal. Hence Daly's protest tonight, even if ill judged given the nature of the event
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
Well slavery may not have been pleasant but it was not extermination in the gas chambers.
No matter your leftwing ideological agenda to equate the British Empire with the Nazi regime as you despise the heritage of the country you live in and show complete disrespect to its head of state, as a matter of historical fact it was not.
And your usual juvenile insults will not change that
That's OK then. Which was worse isn't really relevant.
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion framework to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
Our dear old friend @IshmaelZ has, I believe, just discovered that imperialism has a dark side, and - wow - they used to sell people!
It's like me discovering the death penalty
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY WOULD HANG THEM FROM ROPES
Ishmael loathes Britain, despises the Queen, hates our heritage, has contempt for Christianity and our past.
One could ask why he does not just move to Cuba? I am sure he would be much happier there
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
The Guardian - having abandoned "BAME" (as reductionist, clumsy and ugly (which it is)) - is now struggling to import the equally ugly and even more clumsy Americanism "BIPOC" = Black and Indigenous People of Color
The only problem, there were no "indigenous people of color" in rainy cool Britain, but that isn't stopping them, yet
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion framework to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
Fist fighting and bench clearing brawls too. The Hanson Brothers.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
Slavery is a great injustice and crime, but it cannot be considered on a moral par with the final solution. Slaves must be kept alive, and one assumes in relatively good nick, to be of use as slaves. Had the Nazis merely enslaved the Jewish race, it would have been a far lesser crime, and the victims would have survived the war in far greater numbers.
I've seen this argument crop up a few times and, sure, it makes a certain sort of naive logic, but all the evidence is that slaves were kept in appalling conditions because it was generally easier to buy new slaves instead of put money into looking after them and not working them too hard. The whole point of using slave labour is that it is labour that is cheaper than having to pay free people a decent wage that they can live on and keep themselves in decent nick. If a slave-owner were concerned with keeping their slaves in good nick they would make their lives simpler by employing free labourers, paying them a decent wage, and then not having to deal with all the moral issues, or go to the trouble of making sure the slaves don't escape, etc.
If you were transporting slaves across the Atlantic you did better cramming in 600 and seeing 150 of them die, so you could sell 450, then you would if you only transported 200 and gave each of them a cushion. And so slavers generally crammed them in and saw large numbers die.
As to the Holocaust, the Nazis did use the Jews for slave labour, and then when individuals were too weak to be useful slaves they would be killed. Not sure what point you are making, really.
RIP @SirSocks. "Joining the Foreign Office in 1966, his first task was to greet Upper Volta’s foreign minister at Heathrow. He briefed himself on key African issues, only to be asked the result of Liverpool’s match the night before."
Pre-modern societies did all sorts of awful things. Caesar was no saint, and William the Conqueror was a bit of a wankerer, certainly if you were a peasant in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The reason (I think) we reserve especial horror for the Holocaust is that it took place in modern times, by modern seeming people, with modern looking technologies.
Slavery fits awkwardly somewhere in between. Everyone did it, the British Empire did rather a lot of it, and our modern inheritance is not just William Wilberforce and the Clapham Sect, but gross inequalities in the modern USA, and a large volume of merchant wealth which trickles down the ages.
It’s critical to understand it, but I personally don’t hold that it irrevocably stains the British past or present.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
OK, thought experiment. Suppose tomorrow we stumble across a hitherto undiscovered continent in an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society, and the dominant party offers us all the slaves we can eat. What we gonna do?
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
Well slavery may not have been pleasant but it was not extermination in the gas chambers.
No matter your leftwing ideological agenda to equate the British Empire with the Nazi regime as you despise the heritage of the country you live in and show complete disrespect to its head of state, as a matter of historical fact it was not.
And your usual juvenile insults will not change that
That's OK then. Which was worse isn't really relevant.
Probably why Holocaust comparisons are unenlightening in the first place.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
Our dear old friend @IshmaelZ has, I believe, just discovered that imperialism has a dark side, and - wow - they used to sell people!
It's like me discovering the death penalty
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY WOULD HANG THEM FROM ROPES
Ishmael loathes Britain, despises the Queen, hates our heritage, has contempt for Christianity and our past.
One could ask why he does not just move to Cuba? I am sure he would be much happier there
I'm not sure that's true. I believe he is an old school foxhunting Tory who has developed a rather florid "social conscience" in later years, probably due to life setbacks and some self education
I know a few people like this
The general tendency is to be encouraged, but it can reach embarrassing levels of abnegation
First of the two by elections tonight is a comfortable Labour hold in Bolsover, looks like the vote for independents who didnt stand split between Lab and Con, a little more Lab i think but awaiting figures.
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
The Guardian - having abandoned "BAME" (as reductionist, clumsy and ugly (which it is)) - is now struggling to import the equally ugly and even more clumsy Americanism "BIPOC" = Black and Indigenous People of Color
The only problem, there were no "indigenous people of color" in rainy cool Britain, but that isn't stopping them, yet
As a practical matter, those who oppose slavery can fight against it, NOW, by, for example, joining, or at least contributing to, this organization: https://www.antislavery.org/
Or to protect the pygmies in central Africa. Or the Uighurs in Communist China. And so on.
But it sems odd to denounce what happened centuries ago -- which we can not change -- while ignoring what is happening now -- and what we can try to change.
(I think a strong argument can be made that the two greatest examples of slavery in the 20th century were in teh Soviet Gulag, and its counterparts in Communist China. There are still men alive who could be prosecuted for those crimes.)
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
The Guardian - having abandoned "BAME" (as reductionist, clumsy and ugly (which it is)) - is now struggling to import the equally ugly and even more clumsy Americanism "BIPOC" = Black and Indigenous People of Color
The only problem, there were no "indigenous people of color" in rainy cool Britain, but that isn't stopping them, yet
"It reveals senior executives at the council spent £2.8m on consultants with little local government experience to guide a management restructuring that was supposed to deliver £4m of savings. The ill-fated plan, launched at the height of lockdown, instead ran up costs of £1m and left the council shorn of key staff.
The scheme was “totally unfit for purpose and resulted in the speedy destruction of officer capacity and competence with many remaining individuals now in posts they had no experience in and whole teams being made redundant which were essential to delivery of statutory services”, the report says.
The commissioners’ report says many of the posts that were eliminated under the plan are now having to be re-created. There is just one permanent senior director in place at the council, which is highly dependent on agency staff, not least in children’s services, which has been under special measures for eight years."
As a resident of Bracknell Forest, this makes me a bit nervous as a possible solution for the Government is to do some council mergers and fob them off on someone else. All the Berkshire unitaries are on the small side so you could easily merge 6 into 2 or 3. RBWM has also had some issues lately due to parking revenues drying up in Windsor during the pandemic.
Personally I would stick Slough back in Bucks as that contains most of the wealthy hinterland - Burnham Beeches, Farnham Royal, Stoke Poges
Put Slough back into Bucks, and the Vale of White Horse back into Berks.
Anything else is vandalism.
These are strongly held opinions for someone not actually born in England!
I'm fond of the historical counties. I can see various sides of the argument for what the right units of local government are - but I want to be able to say something is in Lanashire without then having to define Lancashire, or be able to ask how many top flight football teams have had their home grounds in Cheshire. I want subdivisions of the country which are immutable. There is an argument for tying units which people identify with to local government, but also an argument for reflecting modern economic geography.
Growing up in Herefordshire, I can still just about remember the incendiary anger when Ted Heath's government created "Hereford and Worcestershire". A hybrid abomination which was loathed on both sides of the Malverns, but especially in Hereford - a noble, antique cathedral shire city - which was suddenly just a "city" and all the admin moved to Worcester, along with multiple educational and other closures
It stoked long term hatred of the Tories which lasted decades
Why do idiot civil servants do this shit? Why? Herefordshire is clearly, culturally, historically, geographically, quite different to Worcs. These differences might not matter to wankers in Whitehall, but they matter on the ground. And they mattered to many peoples' jobs, as it happened
Perhaps why Hereford went to the LDs for a long time.
Yes, almost certainly a contributing factor. Obvious Tories were incensed
What is conservative about destroying an ancient English county, dating back to 700AD?
Hereford means "army ford" - a place to cross the Wye, for the Anglo Saxon army. Hereford is one of the most obviously Anglo-Saxon counties in the UK. It is proud of this
It has FUCK ALL to do with Worcestershire
Crikey, even now it can make me angry! Ted Heath was a c*nt in so many ways
Herefordshire and Worcestershire do both have batshit local politics.
Herefordshire has a motley crew of ever-feuding local independents - not quite Powys-level but getting there. Worcestershire has the absolute worst shire Tories I’ve encountered, including the execrable Alan Amos. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Amos
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
Our dear old friend @IshmaelZ has, I believe, just discovered that imperialism has a dark side, and - wow - they used to sell people!
It's like me discovering the death penalty
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY WOULD HANG THEM FROM ROPES
Ishmael loathes Britain, despises the Queen, hates our heritage, has contempt for Christianity and our past.
One could ask why he does not just move to Cuba? I am sure he would be much happier there
I'm not sure that's true. I believe he is an old school foxhunting Tory who has developed a rather florid "social conscience" in later years, probably due to life setbacks and some self education
I know a few people like this
The general tendency is to be encouraged, but it can reach embarrassing levels of abnegation
Not really. The only "life setback" I can identify in the past decade is, ironically, having inherited the meagre but adequate remnants of a 19th century cotton trading (hahaha) fortune. What motivates me is a respect for historical truth. Just that.
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
OK, thought experiment. Suppose tomorrow we stumble across a hitherto undiscovered continent in an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society, and the dominant party offers us all the slaves we can eat. What we gonna do?
check google maps for a start.
Then all the care home vacancies really do need filing
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'
When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
I said the British, not the British Empire.
We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.
What bit of that is wrong?
So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.
I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?
Your nightly reminder:
The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.
In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.
He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.
Pegging.
Well slavery may not have been pleasant but it was not extermination in the gas chambers.
No matter your leftwing ideological agenda to equate the British Empire with the Nazi regime as you despise the heritage of the country you live in and show complete disrespect to its head of state, as a matter of historical fact it was not.
And your usual juvenile insults will not change that
That's OK then. Which was worse isn't really relevant.
Probably why Holocaust comparisons are unenlightening in the first place.
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
The Guardian - having abandoned "BAME" (as reductionist, clumsy and ugly (which it is)) - is now struggling to import the equally ugly and even more clumsy Americanism "BIPOC" = Black and Indigenous People of Color
The only problem, there were no "indigenous people of color" in rainy cool Britain, but that isn't stopping them, yet
Wasn't there that black guy in Robin Hood - Prince of Thieves?
"White civil servants told Britain is racist in woke training video The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them Daniel Martin" (£)
"For many of us who are white or white passing, meaning that we are often identified as white in public spaces,"
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
“White passing” is a transfer direct from the tortured trenches of American racial discussion.
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
The importation of the American racial discussion to the UK is like comparing field hockey to ice hockey when it comes to the issue of past racial issues.
The Guardian - having abandoned "BAME" (as reductionist, clumsy and ugly (which it is)) - is now struggling to import the equally ugly and even more clumsy Americanism "BIPOC" = Black and Indigenous People of Color
The only problem, there were no "indigenous people of color" in rainy cool Britain, but that isn't stopping them, yet
That's the welsh here I think ?
Ha, yes - once mysteriously described - I firget where - as short and swarthy, like the Spanish, whose cost they face - but not really categorisable as 'of colour', unless that colour is the same pasty white as Northerners. In any case, there seems to be differing opinions as to whether the English replaced the Welsh people or just their culture. And who knows what the Beaker People have to say about all this. IIRC, most of the population of dark age Britain - English or Welsh - were effectively slaves
As a practical matter, those who oppose slavery can fight against it, NOW, by, for example, joining, or at least contributing to, this organization: https://www.antislavery.org/
Or to protect the pygmies in central Africa. Or the Uighurs in Communist China. And so on.
But it sems odd to denounce what happened centuries ago -- which we can not change -- while ignoring what is happening now -- and what we can try to change.
(I think a strong argument can be made that the two greatest examples of slavery in the 20th century were in teh Soviet Gulag, and its counterparts in Communist China. There are still men alive who could be prosecuted for those crimes.)
Again, I am not denouncing anything except denial.
Did 6 million really die?
Did 3 million really cross the Atlantic and really have, you know, by the standards of the day, such a terrible time? Really?
@Tomorrow'sMPs @tomorrowsmps · 1h Rosie Duffield has survived the Labour trigger ballot process in her Canterbury seat, and is therefore reselected as candidate at the next election, though the announcement hasn't yet been formally made yet.
I find the idea that Jesus was gay both encouraging and amusing.
Are we supposed to be scandalised?
I was thinking earlier of THE FINLAND RUMOUR - the facts of which I learned today
In truth it is not apocalyptic, tho it could be quite explosive, politically, in certain countries
But the non-Armageddon level of it got me wondering if - like Monty Python's Funniest Joke in the World - there might be a rumour SO scandalous it would end human civilisation. The best I could come up with was
God Exists, But He's Having An Affair With Adolf Hitler
here is a thought experiment then on slavery - If there was a jesus like figure who could actually heal the sick just by touching them but he could not be arsed to use his powers , would society force him to as an effective slave for the common good?
I find the idea that Jesus was gay both encouraging and amusing.
Are we supposed to be scandalised?
I was thinking earlier of THE FINLAND RUMOUR - the facts of which I learned today
In truth it is not apocalyptic, tho it could be quite explosive, politically, in certain countries
But the non-Armageddon level of it got me wondering if - like Monty Python's Funniest Joke in the World - there might be a rumour SO scandalous it would end human civilisation. The best I could come up with was
God Exists, But He's Having An Affair With Adolf Hitler
I got a Finnish contact to find it for me and translate - Its basically BS imo
Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?
What was woke about it? I didn't watch, but would be interested.
I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.
However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.
A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.
This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?
Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.
Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?
and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
I always thought the black Africans who captured other black Africans to sell them as slaves deserve a measure of responsibility too.
What difference does that make? It's a primary school argument, Please sir the others were doing it too. And would those other black Africans have bothered, if there was no money in it?
Well yes, because they were doing it. Are you suggesting West Africa was living in peace and harmony until some white fellas arrived and asked if they had any slaves? It was an almost permanent state of warfare and oppression, the same as pretty much every pre-modern society.
Our dear old friend @IshmaelZ has, I believe, just discovered that imperialism has a dark side, and - wow - they used to sell people!
It's like me discovering the death penalty
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY WOULD HANG THEM FROM ROPES
Ishmael loathes Britain, despises the Queen, hates our heritage, has contempt for Christianity and our past.
One could ask why he does not just move to Cuba? I am sure he would be much happier there
But ironically, you love me. I am entirely monarchist, I have voted conservative at every GE from 1979 to date excluding 2005, I went to schools and universities whose charitable status you would defend to the hilt, and I have enough assets that you seem to be prepared to die on the hill of my passing them to my sons free of tax. Why?
One of the things about being a “digital native” (late Gen X / millennials and later) is that you pretty quickly learn that getting pissed and then flaming people on social media at 11pm is a bad idea.
I run a fairly minor forum and it’s generally harmonious, but the problems are always caused by drunk boomers posting later at night.
One of them even posts here sometimes, coincidentally. (Not tonight that I’ve noticed!)
I find the idea that Jesus was gay both encouraging and amusing.
Are we supposed to be scandalised?
I was thinking earlier of THE FINLAND RUMOUR - the facts of which I learned today
In truth it is not apocalyptic, tho it could be quite explosive, politically, in certain countries
But the non-Armageddon level of it got me wondering if - like Monty Python's Funniest Joke in the World - there might be a rumour SO scandalous it would end human civilisation. The best I could come up with was
God Exists, But He's Having An Affair With Adolf Hitler
I got a Finnish contact to find it for me and translate - Its basically BS imo
here is a thought experiment then on slavery - If there was a jesus like figure who could actually heal the sick just by touching them but he could not be arsed to use his powers , would society force him to as an effective slave for the common good?
There's many a good story to be written, and has been written on that sort of idea.
I read a short story somewhere that took the idea of a scapegoat and made it more literal, as in an individual that a society was able to pin all its ills onto.
here is a thought experiment then on slavery - If there was a jesus like figure who could actually heal the sick just by touching them but he could not be arsed to use his powers , would society force him to as an effective slave for the common good?
Finally started watching Ozark. The first episode is quite something. Hope it keeps this level of tension and foreboding up.
Its great although i like red neck stories and characters in them . The tough girl in it is great in later episodes and other red neck tough stuff to watch imo are I Tonia and even Where the Crawdads Sing (out in cinemas now)
Finally started watching Ozark. The first episode is quite something. Hope it keeps this level of tension and foreboding up.
Its great although i like red neck stories and characters in them . The tough girl in it is great in later episodes and other red neck tough stuff to watch imo are I Tonia and even Where the Crawdads Sing (out in cinemas now)
Did you watch Justified. Some great rednecks throughout the seasons in that.
Finally started watching Ozark. The first episode is quite something. Hope it keeps this level of tension and foreboding up.
Its great although i like red neck stories and characters in them . The tough girl in it is great in later episodes and other red neck tough stuff to watch imo are I Tonia and even Where the Crawdads Sing (out in cinemas now)
Did you watch Justified. Some great rednecks throughout the seasons in that.
No thanks will watch - The tough girl in Ozark is called Ruth i recall (not sure she was in episode 1 though?)
Comments
The programme tells staff they must recognise their privilege, be an ally to ethnic minorities and never contradict them
Daniel Martin" (£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/07/28/white-civil-servants-told-britain-racist-woke-training-video/
I blame the Tory government.
It was a “blink and you’d miss it” moment where a handful of athletes carrying alphabet flags (not the traditional rainbow ones) accompanied Tom Daly onto the track, who then set off alone as part of the baton relay. Less than a minute of a two and a half hour ceremony.
One of them was evil, one misguided, the other incompetent.
But. Rest assured this coming one will be lovingly benign.
Think about modern Germans. On the one hand you don't presumably ask them to nuke themselves from orbit as reparation for the holocaust. Equally and on the other hand, you don't expect them to run these utterly dickless arguments about: People have always persecuted Jews, the muslims hate jews too, jews would never have made it to the camps without assistance from other jews, the Hungarians were at it too, we really backed off from the whole holocaust thang in 1945, blah blah.
There's a reason for the "truth" in "truth and reconciliation" and there's a reason why holocaust denial is illegal. The descendants of slaves deserve the truth and are not getting it.
...Then on checking again I see the proper recipe is there at the the bottom of the page. 🤦🏻♂️
Cheers, I may give it a try!
My own view is that the counter arguments you satirise are weak, but are provoked by repugnance at the idea that British slavery is equivalent to the Holocaust.
right you over there, you might be from an ethnic minority, but you are too white....
The report reads like the sort of thing South Park takes the piss out with Token / Tolkien character....you must know this, because you are black...
It has no place or meaning in the UK.
And here's James VI and I, not in an encrypted private diary but a letter to the Privy Council
"I, James, am neither a god nor an angel, but a man like any other. Therefore I act like a man and confess to loving those dear to me more than other men. You may be sure that I love the Earl of Buckingham more than anyone else, and more than you who are here assembled. I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his John, and I have my George."
It's very good for @HYUFD to meditate on this text.
No matter your leftwing ideological agenda to equate the British Empire with the Nazi regime as you despise the heritage of the country you live in and show complete disrespect to its head of state, as a matter of historical fact it was not.
And your usual juvenile insults will not change that
It's the same people on the same deckchairs. Expecting us to forget it isn't.
They're straining "you can't fool all of the people all of the time" to its limit.
Closing the Tavistock will accelerate that process.
Interesting to see which solicitors firms do the work.
I predict a police investigation into the Tavistock by June 2023.
We’re in the extraordinary position that drugs prescribed to children as safe & reversible appear not to have yet been the subject to clinical trials in respect of the purpose for which those children received them.
There is thus unlikely to be informed consent to taking them.
https://twitter.com/SCynic1/status/1552776070352470016?
best Mitchell and Webb sketch imho
And there's an expression which always annoys me: inventing the wheel is easy, it's inventing the axle which is the breakthrough.
It's like me discovering the death penalty
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, THEY WOULD HANG THEM FROM ROPES
Which was worse isn't really relevant.
One could ask why he does not just move to Cuba? I am sure he would be much happier there
The only problem, there were no "indigenous people of color" in rainy cool Britain, but that isn't stopping them, yet
The Hanson Brothers.
If you were transporting slaves across the Atlantic you did better cramming in 600 and seeing 150 of them die, so you could sell 450, then you would if you only transported 200 and gave each of them a cushion. And so slavers generally crammed them in and saw large numbers die.
As to the Holocaust, the Nazis did use the Jews for slave labour, and then when individuals were too weak to be useful slaves they would be killed. Not sure what point you are making, really.
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1552779932887126017
The reason (I think) we reserve especial horror for the Holocaust is that it took place in modern times, by modern seeming people, with modern looking technologies.
Slavery fits awkwardly somewhere in between. Everyone did it, the British Empire did rather a lot of it, and our modern inheritance is not just William Wilberforce and the Clapham Sect, but gross inequalities in the modern USA, and a large volume of merchant wealth which trickles down the ages.
It’s critical to understand it, but I personally don’t hold that it irrevocably stains the British past or present.
Not on here, much, sadly.
I know a few people like this
The general tendency is to be encouraged, but it can reach embarrassing levels of abnegation
And there are many places where their work is needed, for example, in Mauritania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Mauritania
Or to protect the pygmies in central Africa.
Or the Uighurs in Communist China.
And so on.
But it sems odd to denounce what happened centuries ago -- which we can not change -- while ignoring what is happening now -- and what we can try to change.
(I think a strong argument can be made that the two greatest examples of slavery in the 20th century were in teh Soviet Gulag, and its counterparts in Communist China. There are still men alive who could be prosecuted for those crimes.)
You two should have a podcast
Herefordshire has a motley crew of ever-feuding local independents - not quite Powys-level but getting there. Worcestershire has the absolute worst shire Tories I’ve encountered, including the execrable Alan Amos. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Amos
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11059513/Britains-colourful-former-ambassador-Christopher-Meyer-dies-French-Alps-aged-78.html
Then all the care home vacancies really do need filing
Are we supposed to be scandalised?
In any case, there seems to be differing opinions as to whether the English replaced the Welsh people or just their culture.
And who knows what the Beaker People have to say about all this.
IIRC, most of the population of dark age Britain - English or Welsh - were effectively slaves
Did 6 million really die?
Did 3 million really cross the Atlantic and really have, you know, by the standards of the day, such a terrible time? Really?
Are to me the same question, TWTAIY.
@Tomorrow'sMPs
@tomorrowsmps
·
1h
Rosie Duffield has survived the Labour trigger ballot process in her Canterbury seat, and is therefore reselected as candidate at the next election, though the announcement hasn't yet been formally made yet.
In truth it is not apocalyptic, tho it could be quite explosive, politically, in certain countries
But the non-Armageddon level of it got me wondering if - like Monty Python's Funniest Joke in the World - there might be a rumour SO scandalous it would end human civilisation. The best I could come up with was
God Exists, But He's Having An Affair With Adolf Hitler
But, can you please give advice to the total pussy @IshmaelZ as to how to handle a single bottle of Riesling at 11.5% ABV? - he seems to be struggling
Labour hold Pilsley and Morton
Lab 806
Con 361
Greens 34
Lib 22
I run a fairly minor forum and it’s generally harmonious, but the problems are always caused by drunk boomers posting later at night.
One of them even posts here sometimes, coincidentally. (Not tonight that I’ve noticed!)
I read a short story somewhere that took the idea of a scapegoat and made it more literal, as in an individual that a society was able to pin all its ills onto.
George Canning and George IV. 1827.