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Do the Tories know what they are getting with Truss? – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Bit weak from Wallace.
    Like tipping the National winner 10 yards from the post when it's 50 lengths clear.
    Gone down in my estimation.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    a parade of preferred pronouns (big signs) to show how many there are
    Are you joking?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2022
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Well they had Tom Daley come in with flagbearers with rainbow LGBT flags representing the Commonwealth nations where homosexuality is illegal, which while I have no problem with the sentiment will go down like a lead balloon in the nations concerned.

    Then they had Max Whitlock coming in accompanied by a mental health message, which again while I have little problem with the sentiment was somewhat out of place.

    Anyway Prince Charles has now finally opened it followed by the Birmingham Bull
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/slough-could-raise-council-tax-by-20-and-be-forced-to-sell-off-thousands-of-assets

    "It reveals senior executives at the council spent £2.8m on consultants with little local government experience to guide a management restructuring that was supposed to deliver £4m of savings. The ill-fated plan, launched at the height of lockdown, instead ran up costs of £1m and left the council shorn of key staff.

    The scheme was “totally unfit for purpose and resulted in the speedy destruction of officer capacity and competence with many remaining individuals now in posts they had no experience in and whole teams being made redundant which were essential to delivery of statutory services”, the report says.

    The commissioners’ report says many of the posts that were eliminated under the plan are now having to be re-created. There is just one permanent senior director in place at the council, which is highly dependent on agency staff, not least in children’s services, which has been under special measures for eight years.
    "

    As a resident of Bracknell Forest, this makes me a bit nervous as a possible solution for the Government is to do some council mergers and fob them off on someone else. All the Berkshire unitaries are on the small side so you could easily merge 6 into 2 or 3. RBWM has also had some issues lately due to parking revenues drying up in Windsor during the pandemic.

    Personally I would stick Slough back in Bucks as that contains most of the wealthy hinterland - Burnham Beeches, Farnham Royal, Stoke Poges
    Put Slough back into Bucks, and the Vale of White Horse back into Berks.

    Anything else is vandalism.
    These are strongly held opinions for someone not actually born in England!

    I'm fond of the historical counties. I can see various sides of the argument for what the right units of local government are - but I want to be able to say something is in Lanashire without then having to define Lancashire, or be able to ask how many top flight football teams have had their home grounds in Cheshire. I want subdivisions of the country which are immutable.
    There is an argument for tying units which people identify with to local government, but also an argument for reflecting modern economic geography.
    Growing up in Herefordshire, I can still just about remember the incendiary anger when Ted Heath's government created "Hereford and Worcestershire". A hybrid abomination which was loathed on both sides of the Malverns, but especially in Hereford - a noble, antique cathedral shire city - which was suddenly just a "city" and all the admin moved to Worcester, along with multiple educational and other closures

    It stoked long term hatred of the Tories which lasted decades

    Why do idiot civil servants do this shit? Why? Herefordshire is clearly, culturally, historically, geographically, quite different to Worcs. These differences might not matter to wankers in Whitehall, but they matter on the ground. And they mattered to many peoples' jobs, as it happened
    Her-Wor?
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited July 2022

    Caught the end, Liz was good. Her sense of humour is just a bit 'daggy' as Australians would have it. Warmed to her. Definitely prefer her to Rishi and hope she wins.

    Days being the excrement clumped in the wool around a sheep’s arse ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    Bit weak from Wallace.
    Like tipping the National winner 10 yards from the post when it's 50 lengths clear.
    Gone down in my estimation.

    Whatsoever king may reign, ben will still be the vicar of Bray, sir. see his volte face over the kabul airlift.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/slough-could-raise-council-tax-by-20-and-be-forced-to-sell-off-thousands-of-assets

    "It reveals senior executives at the council spent £2.8m on consultants with little local government experience to guide a management restructuring that was supposed to deliver £4m of savings. The ill-fated plan, launched at the height of lockdown, instead ran up costs of £1m and left the council shorn of key staff.

    The scheme was “totally unfit for purpose and resulted in the speedy destruction of officer capacity and competence with many remaining individuals now in posts they had no experience in and whole teams being made redundant which were essential to delivery of statutory services”, the report says.

    The commissioners’ report says many of the posts that were eliminated under the plan are now having to be re-created. There is just one permanent senior director in place at the council, which is highly dependent on agency staff, not least in children’s services, which has been under special measures for eight years.
    "

    As a resident of Bracknell Forest, this makes me a bit nervous as a possible solution for the Government is to do some council mergers and fob them off on someone else. All the Berkshire unitaries are on the small side so you could easily merge 6 into 2 or 3. RBWM has also had some issues lately due to parking revenues drying up in Windsor during the pandemic.

    Personally I would stick Slough back in Bucks as that contains most of the wealthy hinterland - Burnham Beeches, Farnham Royal, Stoke Poges
    Put Slough back into Bucks, and the Vale of White Horse back into Berks.

    Anything else is vandalism.
    These are strongly held opinions for someone not actually born in England!

    I'm fond of the historical counties. I can see various sides of the argument for what the right units of local government are - but I want to be able to say something is in Lanashire without then having to define Lancashire, or be able to ask how many top flight football teams have had their home grounds in Cheshire. I want subdivisions of the country which are immutable.
    There is an argument for tying units which people identify with to local government, but also an argument for reflecting modern economic geography.
    Growing up in Herefordshire, I can still just about remember the incendiary anger when Ted Heath's government created "Hereford and Worcestershire". A hybrid abomination which was loathed on both sides of the Malverns, but especially in Hereford - a noble, antique cathedral shire city - which was suddenly just a "city" and all the admin moved to Worcester, along with multiple educational and other closures

    It stoked long term hatred of the Tories which lasted decades

    Why do idiot civil servants do this shit? Why? Herefordshire is clearly, culturally, historically, geographically, quite different to Worcs. These differences might not matter to wankers in Whitehall, but they matter on the ground. And they mattered to many peoples' jobs, as it happened
    Her-Wor?
    sounds like a list of preferred pronouns on a halifax name badge
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD will be appalled!
    Should have stood himself, anyway I am behind Rishi now so his endorsement holds no weight with me
    Have you considered the possibility you are a tiny bit out of tune with your fellow Tory members?

    You've supported losers all the way: Wallace, then Tugendhat, now Sunak

    No one wants them. Wallace obviously wasn't up to it, notice how he only opts for Truss now it is obvious she is going to win. Like Italy deciding which side to support in a World War
    Well if and when Liz loses the next general election I don't have a problem being proved right, if on the upside she wins happy to be proved wrong
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    So post WW1, Sunak is at best the fourth most northern chancellor?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    MattW said:

    Developers may be prevented from starting projects in west London until 2035 because the electricity grid has run out of capacity to power new homes.

    The Greater London Authority (GLA) told developers this week that it may take more than a decade for grid capacity to be increased to sustain new developments in Hillingdon, Ealing and Hounslow.

    The boroughs accounted for about 11 per cent of London’s housing supply in 2019-20.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/grid-has-no-power-for-new-homes-in-west-london-until-2035-qnrn065cb

    That's interesting. On the whole demand has been reducing in many places for years.

    With demand being higher from older houses which are less energy efficient, I'd perhaps investigate introduce a practice of apply a condition of reducing demand or providing local generation where suitable from the existing stock enough to create space for the new ones they want to build.

    May be surprisingly possible.
    Unlikely while older houses are less energy efficient the are usually heated by gas which isn’t the issue here
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/slough-could-raise-council-tax-by-20-and-be-forced-to-sell-off-thousands-of-assets

    "It reveals senior executives at the council spent £2.8m on consultants with little local government experience to guide a management restructuring that was supposed to deliver £4m of savings. The ill-fated plan, launched at the height of lockdown, instead ran up costs of £1m and left the council shorn of key staff.

    The scheme was “totally unfit for purpose and resulted in the speedy destruction of officer capacity and competence with many remaining individuals now in posts they had no experience in and whole teams being made redundant which were essential to delivery of statutory services”, the report says.

    The commissioners’ report says many of the posts that were eliminated under the plan are now having to be re-created. There is just one permanent senior director in place at the council, which is highly dependent on agency staff, not least in children’s services, which has been under special measures for eight years.
    "

    As a resident of Bracknell Forest, this makes me a bit nervous as a possible solution for the Government is to do some council mergers and fob them off on someone else. All the Berkshire unitaries are on the small side so you could easily merge 6 into 2 or 3. RBWM has also had some issues lately due to parking revenues drying up in Windsor during the pandemic.

    Personally I would stick Slough back in Bucks as that contains most of the wealthy hinterland - Burnham Beeches, Farnham Royal, Stoke Poges
    Put Slough back into Bucks, and the Vale of White Horse back into Berks.

    Anything else is vandalism.
    These are strongly held opinions for someone not actually born in England!

    I'm fond of the historical counties. I can see various sides of the argument for what the right units of local government are - but I want to be able to say something is in Lanashire without then having to define Lancashire, or be able to ask how many top flight football teams have had their home grounds in Cheshire. I want subdivisions of the country which are immutable.
    There is an argument for tying units which people identify with to local government, but also an argument for reflecting modern economic geography.
    Growing up in Herefordshire, I can still just about remember the incendiary anger when Ted Heath's government created "Hereford and Worcestershire". A hybrid abomination which was loathed on both sides of the Malverns, but especially in Hereford - a noble, antique cathedral shire city - which was suddenly just a "city" and all the admin moved to Worcester, along with multiple educational and other closures

    It stoked long term hatred of the Tories which lasted decades

    Why do idiot civil servants do this shit? Why? Herefordshire is clearly, culturally, historically, geographically, quite different to Worcs. These differences might not matter to wankers in Whitehall, but they matter on the ground. And they mattered to many peoples' jobs, as it happened
    Perhaps why Hereford went to the LDs for a long time.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Well they had Tom Daley come in with flagbearers with rainbow LGBT flags representing the Commonwealth nations where homosexuality is illegal, which while I have no problem with the sentiment will go down like a lead balloon in the nations concerned.
    Ooof. That's a bit on the nose for 'the friendly games'.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bit weak from Wallace.
    Like tipping the National winner 10 yards from the post when it's 50 lengths clear.
    Gone down in my estimation.

    Whatsoever king may reign, ben will still be the vicar of Bray, sir. see his volte face over the kabul airlift.
    In the case for the defence (no pun intended), I expect he is desperate to remain in post until Russians kicked out of Ukraine.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Talk about burnt bridges:

    BREAKING:

    Ben Wallace has endorsed Liz Truss for the Tory leadership

    Writing in The Times he says she is the 'only candidate' who has the experience to lead the country from day one

    'Liz is a winner not because she's a slick salesperson but because she's authentic'


    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1552760810060992512
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    So post WW1, Sunak is at best the fourth most northern chancellor?

    Does Scotland count as Northern?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,635
    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Ed Balls?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    So post WW1, Sunak is at best the fourth most northern chancellor?

    Does Scotland count as Northern?
    Apparently not part of the UK.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    I'd love to know how Nick Rhodes of Duran Duran only looks about 10 years older than he did in 1981.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    So post WW1, Sunak is at best the fourth most northern chancellor?

    Does Scotland count as Northern?
    It did when I were a lad. Of course, in or post-modern world where subjective and playful statements are to be regarded as being as valid as scientific knowledge, who knows? Also we are assuming the UK as a frame of reference.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/slough-could-raise-council-tax-by-20-and-be-forced-to-sell-off-thousands-of-assets

    "It reveals senior executives at the council spent £2.8m on consultants with little local government experience to guide a management restructuring that was supposed to deliver £4m of savings. The ill-fated plan, launched at the height of lockdown, instead ran up costs of £1m and left the council shorn of key staff.

    The scheme was “totally unfit for purpose and resulted in the speedy destruction of officer capacity and competence with many remaining individuals now in posts they had no experience in and whole teams being made redundant which were essential to delivery of statutory services”, the report says.

    The commissioners’ report says many of the posts that were eliminated under the plan are now having to be re-created. There is just one permanent senior director in place at the council, which is highly dependent on agency staff, not least in children’s services, which has been under special measures for eight years.
    "

    As a resident of Bracknell Forest, this makes me a bit nervous as a possible solution for the Government is to do some council mergers and fob them off on someone else. All the Berkshire unitaries are on the small side so you could easily merge 6 into 2 or 3. RBWM has also had some issues lately due to parking revenues drying up in Windsor during the pandemic.

    Personally I would stick Slough back in Bucks as that contains most of the wealthy hinterland - Burnham Beeches, Farnham Royal, Stoke Poges
    Put Slough back into Bucks, and the Vale of White Horse back into Berks.

    Anything else is vandalism.
    These are strongly held opinions for someone not actually born in England!

    I'm fond of the historical counties. I can see various sides of the argument for what the right units of local government are - but I want to be able to say something is in Lanashire without then having to define Lancashire, or be able to ask how many top flight football teams have had their home grounds in Cheshire. I want subdivisions of the country which are immutable.
    There is an argument for tying units which people identify with to local government, but also an argument for reflecting modern economic geography.
    Growing up in Herefordshire, I can still just about remember the incendiary anger when Ted Heath's government created "Hereford and Worcestershire". A hybrid abomination which was loathed on both sides of the Malverns, but especially in Hereford - a noble, antique cathedral shire city - which was suddenly just a "city" and all the admin moved to Worcester, along with multiple educational and other closures

    It stoked long term hatred of the Tories which lasted decades

    Why do idiot civil servants do this shit? Why? Herefordshire is clearly, culturally, historically, geographically, quite different to Worcs. These differences might not matter to wankers in Whitehall, but they matter on the ground. And they mattered to many peoples' jobs, as it happened
    Perhaps why Hereford went to the LDs for a long time.
    Yes, almost certainly a contributing factor. Obvious Tories were incensed

    What is conservative about destroying an ancient English county, dating back to 700AD?

    Hereford means "army ford" - a place to cross the Wye, for the Anglo Saxon army. Hereford is one of the most obviously Anglo-Saxon counties in the UK. It is proud of this

    It has FUCK ALL to do with Worcestershire

    Crikey, even now it can make me angry! Ted Heath was a c*nt in so many ways
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Ooops.

    Nadine Dorries does not exactly help herself:

    Nadine Dorries tells BBC News: “We haven’t had a sporting event like this in the UK since the 2012 Olympics” as she welcomes the opening of the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham.

    Glasgow was the 2014 host of the same event.

    https://twitter.com/Dennynews/status/1552552688801423360
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    MattW said:

    Ooops.

    Nadine Dorries does not exactly help herself:

    Nadine Dorries tells BBC News: “We haven’t had a sporting event like this in the UK since the 2012 Olympics” as she welcomes the opening of the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham.

    Glasgow was the 2014 host of the same event.

    https://twitter.com/Dennynews/status/1552552688801423360

    Well, as I was saying only a moment ago, the Tories don't think Scotland is part of the UK. What with Mr Sunak claiming to be the northernistismost Chancellor.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Birmingham now seems to morphed into Glastonbury.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Ed Balls?
    He wasn't Chancellor. Alistair Darling was, though, too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    bunnco said:

    BUNCO MAKES THE CASE FOR LIZ TRUSS AS NEXT CON LEADER AND PM
    25/6/2016 Mike Smithson Comments 1296 Comments

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/25/bunco-makes-the-case-for-liz-truss-as-next-con-leader-and-pm/

    It's been written in the stars since 2009

    Like I say, Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot

    Great call - though you did hedge a little:
    … and Truss ranks alongside Crabb, Hammond, Morgan, Harper, Soubry, Stewart, Truss, & Fallon for the longer-shot who may offer value at the bookmakers…
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Not sure why we are following America in going down the road to televised trials (first televised sentencing today) - I cannot think of one benefit but like all "reality TV shows" it will end in people playing to the camera not justice
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    dixiedean said:

    Bit weak from Wallace.
    Like tipping the National winner 10 yards from the post when it's 50 lengths clear.
    Gone down in my estimation.

    Might be designed to push Sunak to withdrawal (ahem) and get Johnson out asap?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    MattW said:

    Ooops.

    Nadine Dorries does not exactly help herself:

    Nadine Dorries tells BBC News: “We haven’t had a sporting event like this in the UK since the 2012 Olympics” as she welcomes the opening of the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham.

    Glasgow was the 2014 host of the same event.

    https://twitter.com/Dennynews/status/1552552688801423360

    She’s clearly accepted that Scotland is lost from the U.K. already.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    You mean, the work camps known as "slave plantations"? Not so many, but that was not for want of trying.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,962
    edited July 2022
    ..
    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Also Iain Macleod (a very distant relative of mine, born Skipton) briefly, and Darling, though born in London I believe.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    Popcorn deficit incoming.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited July 2022
    Great Commonwealth Games opening ceremony and Duran Duran finish it with one of my all time favourite songs Ordinary World .
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    dixiedean said:

    Bit weak from Wallace.
    Like tipping the National winner 10 yards from the post when it's 50 lengths clear.
    Gone down in my estimation.

    Unless, as I hope, she has given him assurances on Ukraine.
    Though I suspect that’s not the case.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    nico679 said:

    Great Commonwealth Games opening ceremony and Duran Duran finish it with one of the of my all time favourite songs Ordinary World .

    Top stuff from the lads from Brum!!
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    MattW said:

    Ooops.

    Nadine Dorries does not exactly help herself:

    Nadine Dorries tells BBC News: “We haven’t had a sporting event like this in the UK since the 2012 Olympics” as she welcomes the opening of the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham.

    Glasgow was the 2014 host of the same event.

    https://twitter.com/Dennynews/status/1552552688801423360

    At least it has the Rugby League 7's.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    Nigelb said:

    bunnco said:

    BUNCO MAKES THE CASE FOR LIZ TRUSS AS NEXT CON LEADER AND PM
    25/6/2016 Mike Smithson Comments 1296 Comments

    https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/25/bunco-makes-the-case-for-liz-truss-as-next-con-leader-and-pm/

    It's been written in the stars since 2009

    Like I say, Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot

    Great call - though you did hedge a little:
    … and Truss ranks alongside Crabb, Hammond, Morgan, Harper, Soubry, Stewart, Truss, & Fallon for the longer-shot who may offer value at the bookmakers…
    He did at least tip Truss twice, there?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    nico679 said:

    Great Commonwealth Games opening ceremony and Duran Duran finish it with one of my all time favourite songs Ordinary World .

    Enjoyed it, but probably 30 minutes too long.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Bit weak from Wallace.
    Like tipping the National winner 10 yards from the post when it's 50 lengths clear.
    Gone down in my estimation.

    Might be designed to push Sunak to withdrawal (ahem) and get Johnson out asap?
    Well maybe. I mean it's over.
    But I imagine he'll be banging on about his undying support for the new leader.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
    I doubt the Queen will be happy
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    "On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British"

    But this is basically untrue, and provably untrue, as I have told you countless times

    The largest slavers of Africans were Muslims, and it went on for much longer (and was finally stopped by the British Empire)

    The Brits have a complex history with slavery, some of it utterly shameful (the slavery), some of it noble (the abolition). There is no need to make up shit
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited July 2022
    MattW said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Well they had Tom Daley come in with flagbearers with rainbow LGBT flags representing the Commonwealth nations where homosexuality is illegal, which while I have no problem with the sentiment will go down like a lead balloon in the nations concerned.
    Ooof. That's a bit on the nose for 'the friendly games'.
    Joe Lycett got a dig in on HM Government too while on stage, broadcast across the Commonwealth.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    ..

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Also Iain Macleod (a very distant relative of mine, born Skipton) briefly, and Darling, though born in London I believe.
    Norman Lamont, born in Lerwick.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
    The thing is somebody like Tom Daly already has an absolute massive platform. He can lobby, campaign, pressure and will get huge exposure anytime he wishes to make a statement. Does he need to do that then and there? Its not quite the same as somebody who lives in an oppressive regime (or will be totally ignored otherwise) and there only chance ever to make a protest statement when they are at a foreign games.

    I wonder if part of the success of Marcus Rashford campaign (driven his very well connected agent, Kelly Hogarth) was that he kept that campaign outside of the time he was actually on the pitch.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    I said the British, not the British Empire.

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.

    What bit of that is wrong?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719

    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000

    This is now finally over.

    Can we just get Truss up to Balmoral to kiss the hands and so on?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000

    This is now finally over.

    Can we just get Truss up to Balmoral to kiss the hands and so on?
    I thought a week was a long time in politics? There are nearly 6 weeks to go.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    I said the British, not the British Empire.

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.

    What bit of that is wrong?
    The bit where you say the British were the worst (amongst many other things)

    "Two rough estimates by scholars of the numbers of just one group - black slaves held over twelve centuries in the Muslim world - are 11.5 million[6] and 14 million,[7][8] while other estimates indicate a number between 12 and 15 million African slaves prior to the 20th century.[9]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world#:~:text=Two rough estimates by scholars,prior to the 20th century.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000

    This is now finally over.

    Can we just get Truss up to Balmoral to kiss the hands and so on?
    i presume that it will be the first time a monarch and PM share a first name?
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.

    However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.

    A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.

    This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    ..

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Also Iain Macleod (a very distant relative of mine, born Skipton) briefly, and Darling, though born in London I believe.
    Norman Lamont, born in Lerwick.

    Tbf. That's tough to beat. Nanuk of the North? Or Santa? Mind you. Who knows who'll be in Liz's Cabinet?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    CatMan said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jul/28/slough-could-raise-council-tax-by-20-and-be-forced-to-sell-off-thousands-of-assets

    "It reveals senior executives at the council spent £2.8m on consultants with little local government experience to guide a management restructuring that was supposed to deliver £4m of savings. The ill-fated plan, launched at the height of lockdown, instead ran up costs of £1m and left the council shorn of key staff.

    The scheme was “totally unfit for purpose and resulted in the speedy destruction of officer capacity and competence with many remaining individuals now in posts they had no experience in and whole teams being made redundant which were essential to delivery of statutory services”, the report says.

    The commissioners’ report says many of the posts that were eliminated under the plan are now having to be re-created. There is just one permanent senior director in place at the council, which is highly dependent on agency staff, not least in children’s services, which has been under special measures for eight years.
    "

    As a resident of Bracknell Forest, this makes me a bit nervous as a possible solution for the Government is to do some council mergers and fob them off on someone else. All the Berkshire unitaries are on the small side so you could easily merge 6 into 2 or 3. RBWM has also had some issues lately due to parking revenues drying up in Windsor during the pandemic.

    Personally I would stick Slough back in Bucks as that contains most of the wealthy hinterland - Burnham Beeches, Farnham Royal, Stoke Poges
    Put Slough back into Bucks, and the Vale of White Horse back into Berks.

    Anything else is vandalism.
    These are strongly held opinions for someone not actually born in England!

    I'm fond of the historical counties. I can see various sides of the argument for what the right units of local government are - but I want to be able to say something is in Lanashire without then having to define Lancashire, or be able to ask how many top flight football teams have had their home grounds in Cheshire. I want subdivisions of the country which are immutable.
    There is an argument for tying units which people identify with to local government, but also an argument for reflecting modern economic geography.
    Growing up in Herefordshire, I can still just about remember the incendiary anger when Ted Heath's government created "Hereford and Worcestershire". A hybrid abomination which was loathed on both sides of the Malverns, but especially in Hereford - a noble, antique cathedral shire city - which was suddenly just a "city" and all the admin moved to Worcester, along with multiple educational and other closures

    It stoked long term hatred of the Tories which lasted decades

    Why do idiot civil servants do this shit? Why? Herefordshire is clearly, culturally, historically, geographically, quite different to Worcs. These differences might not matter to wankers in Whitehall, but they matter on the ground. And they mattered to many peoples' jobs, as it happened
    Perhaps why Hereford went to the LDs for a long time.
    Yes, almost certainly a contributing factor. Obvious Tories were incensed

    What is conservative about destroying an ancient English county, dating back to 700AD?

    Hereford means "army ford" - a place to cross the Wye, for the Anglo Saxon army. Hereford is one of the most obviously Anglo-Saxon counties in the UK. It is proud of this

    It has FUCK ALL to do with Worcestershire

    Crikey, even now it can make me angry! Ted Heath was a c*nt in so many ways
    Even worse that the shameful Humberside debacle
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    "On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British"

    But this is basically untrue, and provably untrue, as I have told you countless times

    The largest slavers of Africans were Muslims, and it went on for much longer (and was finally stopped by the British Empire)

    The Brits have a complex history with slavery, some of it utterly shameful (the slavery), some of it noble (the abolition). There is no need to make up shit
    So fucking what? Why does muslim slaving alter the case against Britain? Do you mitigate Fred West's crimes because Harold Shipton outperformed him?

    And if I kick 60 old ladies to death, and then resolve to spare the last three and stop everybody else from kicking them to death too, really how "complex" is my relationship with old lady kicking?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
    The thing is somebody like Tom Daly already has an absolute massive platform. He can lobby, campaign, pressure and will get huge exposure anytime he wishes to make a statement. Does he need to do that then and there? Its not quite the same as somebody who lives in an oppressive regime (or will be totally ignored otherwise) and there only chance ever to make a protest statement when they are at a foreign games.

    I wonder if part of the success of Marcus Rashford campaign (driven his very well connected agent, Kelly Hogarth) was that he kept that campaign outside of the time he was actually on the pitch.
    It could be a springboard for him also.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
    The thing is somebody like Tom Daly already has an absolute massive platform. He can lobby, campaign, pressure and will get huge exposure anytime he wishes to make a statement. Does he need to do that then and there? Its not quite the same as somebody who lives in an oppressive regime (or will be totally ignored otherwise) and there only chance ever to make a protest statement when they are at a foreign games.

    I wonder if part of the success of Marcus Rashford campaign (driven his very well connected agent, Kelly Hogarth) was that he kept that campaign outside of the time he was actually on the pitch.
    It could be a springboard for him also.
    Quality of comments is really taking a dive here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012

    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000

    This is now finally over.

    Can we just get Truss up to Balmoral to kiss the hands and so on?
    Some people are on the pitch!....I think one of them Ben Wallace.....he is heading straight for Rishi Sunak, he's only gone and kicked in the bollocks....They think it's all over!...It is now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Mauretania outlawed slavery as long ago as... 1981.
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    edited July 2022

    ..

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Also Iain Macleod (a very distant relative of mine, born Skipton) briefly, and Darling, though born in London I believe.
    Norman Lamont, born in Lerwick.

    So Sunak drops further, to fifth most northern
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    "On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British"

    But this is basically untrue, and provably untrue, as I have told you countless times

    The largest slavers of Africans were Muslims, and it went on for much longer (and was finally stopped by the British Empire)

    The Brits have a complex history with slavery, some of it utterly shameful (the slavery), some of it noble (the abolition). There is no need to make up shit
    So fucking what? Why does muslim slaving alter the case against Britain? Do you mitigate Fred West's crimes because Harold Shipton outperformed him?

    And if I kick 60 old ladies to death, and then resolve to spare the last three and stop everybody else from kicking them to death too, really how "complex" is my relationship with old lady kicking?
    Not so much resolving to spare the last three as being bribed with very large sums of public money to let them go, too.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    Speaking of slaving to the New World I just slaved over a fantastic Brazilian fish stew, here is the recipe

    https://www.feastingathome.com/brazilian-fish-stew-aka-moqueca/


    Quite easy to do, probably needs a bit more heat (it's an American recipe), and a delicious, tasty variation on an Asian coconut fish curry. More lime and astringency, less sweetness, and totes yum

    Had it with basmati/wild rice and a flash fried, garlicky cavolo nero

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,012
    edited July 2022
    Very cool DALLE-2 output...

    I used DALL-E to imagine beyond this painting (girl with the pearl earring)
    @OpenAI
    Inspired by
    @literallydenis
    #dalle #dalle2 #artificialintelligence #art

    https://twitter.com/karenxcheng/status/1552720889489154048
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    I said the British, not the British Empire.

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.

    What bit of that is wrong?
    So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.

    I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    Leon said:

    Speaking of slaving to the New World I just slaved over a fantastic Brazilian fish stew, here is the recipe

    https://www.feastingathome.com/brazilian-fish-stew-aka-moqueca/


    Quite easy to do, probably needs a bit more heat (it's an American recipe), and a delicious, tasty variation on an Asian coconut fish curry. More lime and astringency, less sweetness, and totes yum

    Had it with basmati/wild rice and a flash fried, garlicky cavolo nero

    What a tenuous link to cook bragging - well done chef!
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 500
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth

    Define "truth".

    Slaves carried to America, by nation, 1519-1867

    Portugal: 5,848,266
    Britain: 3,259,443
    France: 1,381,404
    Spain: 1,061,524
    Netherlands: 554,336
    United States: 305,326
    Denmark: 111,040
    Total: 12,521,339

    "Estimates of the total number of black slaves moved from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Muslim world range from 11-17 million"
    IshmaelZ said:

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims.

    This paper measures and analyzes death rates that prevailed in the Atlantic slave trade during the late 1700s... Annual death rates in this activity were 230 per thousand among the crew and 83 per thousand among slaves. The lack of immunities to the African disease environment contributed to the high death rates among the crew.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    dixiedean said:

    ..

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Also Iain Macleod (a very distant relative of mine, born Skipton) briefly, and Darling, though born in London I believe.
    Norman Lamont, born in Lerwick.

    Tbf. That's tough to beat. Nanuk of the North? Or Santa? Mind you. Who knows who'll be in Liz's Cabinet?
    She will surely choose a Cabinet utilising natural talents?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    Slavery had nothing to do with race for much of human history.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000

    This is now finally over.

    Can we just get Truss up to Balmoral to kiss the hands and so on?
    i presume that it will be the first time a monarch and PM share a first name?
    Except, amusingly, Truss' first name is Mary and Elizabeth is a middle name, while HMQ is unusual among British monarchs in using her first name as her regnal name.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    I said the British, not the British Empire.

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.

    What bit of that is wrong?
    So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.

    I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
    He didn't say the British Empire. You did. So you're claiming a completely futile and nonexistent debating point.

    You might also like to contemplate how half the children of the Boer Republics died in the camps in South Africa.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2022

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
    I doubt the Queen will be happy
    I expect the Queen will be privately furious, the aftermath of the above in the nations mentioned in the Commonwealth could make this week's Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion look like a model of harmony
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    "On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British"

    But this is basically untrue, and provably untrue, as I have told you countless times

    The largest slavers of Africans were Muslims, and it went on for much longer (and was finally stopped by the British Empire)

    The Brits have a complex history with slavery, some of it utterly shameful (the slavery), some of it noble (the abolition). There is no need to make up shit
    So fucking what? Why does muslim slaving alter the case against Britain? Do you mitigate Fred West's crimes because Harold Shipton outperformed him?

    And if I kick 60 old ladies to death, and then resolve to spare the last three and stop everybody else from kicking them to death too, really how "complex" is my relationship with old lady kicking?
    I'm saying you are factually wrong, you weird Woke foxhunting Tory, and facts matter

    It's great that late in life you have become agitated by imperial crimes - they certainly exist - but you need to ground your anger in history, not drunken emotion, and you need to realise the context, which matters. EVERY dominant society enslaved people from 2000BC-1900AD

    But if pointless boozed-up tragic guilt-wanking gets you off, knock yerself out
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    ..

    dixiedean said:

    Eabhal said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunak just said he's the most northern Chancellor we've ever had...

    Born: Southampton
    School: Winchester
    Uni: Oxford
    Career: London

    Then parachuted into a safe Yorkshire seat in 2015


    https://twitter.com/_BvdM/status/1552740324807786496

    Gordon Brown waves.
    Is he the most northerly? Ramsay MacDonald was never CofE.
    He beats Healey but Healey beat Sunak surely as he was brought up in Yorkshire as well as being an MP for Leeds.
    Gordon Brown.
    Also Iain Macleod (a very distant relative of mine, born Skipton) briefly, and Darling, though born in London I believe.
    Norman Lamont, born in Lerwick.

    Tbf. That's tough to beat. Nanuk of the North? Or Santa? Mind you. Who knows who'll be in Liz's Cabinet?
    She will surely choose a Cabinet utilising natural talents?
    Come to think of it Santa Claus would be perfect as the next Liz Truss Chancellor.
    He'll unload his sack. And you won't have any nasty financial consequences.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    I said the British, not the British Empire.

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.

    What bit of that is wrong?
    So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.

    I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
    He didn't say the British Empire. You did. So you're claiming a completely futile and nonexistent debating point.

    You might also like to contemplate how half the children of the Boer Republics died in the camps in South Africa.
    None of the camps Boers died in were extermination camps and it was the middle of the Boer War in which thousands of British were also killed by male Boers.

    Of course the descendants of those Boers then pursued apartheid when they ran South Africa
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.

    However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.

    A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.

    This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
    Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?

    Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.

    Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?

    and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Wallace has put the boot into Sunak too.

    https://twitter.com/jackelsom/status/1552765052633088000

    This is now finally over.

    Can we just get Truss up to Balmoral to kiss the hands and so on?
    i presume that it will be the first time a monarch and PM share a first name?
    Except, amusingly, Truss' first name is Mary and Elizabeth is a middle name, while HMQ is unusual among British monarchs in using her first name as her regnal name.
    And following quite a tradition of PM's not being known by theirs.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,899

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.18 Liz Truss 85%
    6.8 Rishi Sunak 15%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.17 Liz Truss 85%
    7 Rishi Sunak 14%

    Immediately before tonight's hustings.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.17 Liz Truss 85%
    6.8 Rishi Sunak 15%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.17 Liz Truss 85%
    7 Rishi Sunak 14%
    No change at the end of the hustings.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.18 Liz Truss 85%
    6.8 Rishi Sunak 15%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.17 Liz Truss 85%
    7 Rishi Sunak 14%
    We are starting to see movement in the Truss direction.

    Betfair next prime minister
    1.16 Liz Truss 86%
    6.8 Rishi Sunak 15%

    Next Conservative leader
    1.15 Liz Truss 87%
    7.4 Rishi Sunak 14%
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    I mistyped. It was about LGB rights, so you can relax now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    "On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British"

    But this is basically untrue, and provably untrue, as I have told you countless times

    The largest slavers of Africans were Muslims, and it went on for much longer (and was finally stopped by the British Empire)

    The Brits have a complex history with slavery, some of it utterly shameful (the slavery), some of it noble (the abolition). There is no need to make up shit
    So fucking what? Why does muslim slaving alter the case against Britain? Do you mitigate Fred West's crimes because Harold Shipton outperformed him?

    And if I kick 60 old ladies to death, and then resolve to spare the last three and stop everybody else from kicking them to death too, really how "complex" is my relationship with old lady kicking?
    I'm saying you are factually wrong, you weird Woke foxhunting Tory, and facts matter

    It's great that late in life you have become agitated by imperial crimes - they certainly exist - but you need to ground your anger in history, not drunken emotion, and you need to realise the context, which matters. EVERY dominant society enslaved people from 2000BC-1900AD

    But if pointless boozed-up tragic guilt-wanking gets you off, knock yerself out
    No they didn't. History is not on your side.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,663
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    Tom Daly and the flags of countries where homosexuality is still illegal. Small snippet in 2 h 20 min...
    #
    yes very rude to countries competing I would think as a host - You dont invite guests to your home and make a protest at their views as they walk in

    Indeed, as if the Commonwealth hasn't got enough problems at the moment maintaining unity.

    Pressure in private fine, humiliation of some member nations in the opening ceremony no
    I doubt the Queen will be happy
    I expect the Queen will be privately furious, the aftermath of the above in the nations mentioned in the Commonwealth could make this week's Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion look like a model of harmony
    Hahaha
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Mauretania outlawed slavery as long ago as... 1981.

    Lenny Henry still appeared as a TV stand up comedian until --- 2018
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth

    Define "truth".

    Slaves carried to America, by nation, 1519-1867

    Portugal: 5,848,266
    Britain: 3,259,443
    France: 1,381,404
    Spain: 1,061,524
    Netherlands: 554,336
    United States: 305,326
    Denmark: 111,040
    Total: 12,521,339

    "Estimates of the total number of black slaves moved from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Muslim world range from 11-17 million"
    IshmaelZ said:

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims.

    This paper measures and analyzes death rates that prevailed in the Atlantic slave trade during the late 1700s... Annual death rates in this activity were 230 per thousand among the crew and 83 per thousand among slaves. The lack of immunities to the African disease environment contributed to the high death rates among the crew.
    Well so fucking what?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    MattW said:

    Ooops.

    Nadine Dorries does not exactly help herself:

    Nadine Dorries tells BBC News: “We haven’t had a sporting event like this in the UK since the 2012 Olympics” as she welcomes the opening of the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham.

    Glasgow was the 2014 host of the same event.

    https://twitter.com/Dennynews/status/1552552688801423360

    At least it has the Rugby League 7's.
    Rishi "northern bastard" Sunak will have to pretend to be well into it
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth

    Define "truth".

    Slaves carried to America, by nation, 1519-1867

    Portugal: 5,848,266
    Britain: 3,259,443
    France: 1,381,404
    Spain: 1,061,524
    Netherlands: 554,336
    United States: 305,326
    Denmark: 111,040
    Total: 12,521,339

    "Estimates of the total number of black slaves moved from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Muslim world range from 11-17 million"
    IshmaelZ said:

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims.

    This paper measures and analyzes death rates that prevailed in the Atlantic slave trade during the late 1700s... Annual death rates in this activity were 230 per thousand among the crew and 83 per thousand among slaves. The lack of immunities to the African disease environment contributed to the high death rates among the crew.
    Well so fucking what?
    Have a coffee, or a lie down
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,664
    Leon said:

    Speaking of slaving to the New World I just slaved over a fantastic Brazilian fish stew, here is the recipe

    https://www.feastingathome.com/brazilian-fish-stew-aka-moqueca/


    Quite easy to do, probably needs a bit more heat (it's an American recipe), and a delicious, tasty variation on an Asian coconut fish curry. More lime and astringency, less sweetness, and totes yum

    Had it with basmati/wild rice and a flash fried, garlicky cavolo nero

    Is this a cook-yourself-meal-in-a-box?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813

    Leon said:

    Speaking of slaving to the New World I just slaved over a fantastic Brazilian fish stew, here is the recipe

    https://www.feastingathome.com/brazilian-fish-stew-aka-moqueca/


    Quite easy to do, probably needs a bit more heat (it's an American recipe), and a delicious, tasty variation on an Asian coconut fish curry. More lime and astringency, less sweetness, and totes yum

    Had it with basmati/wild rice and a flash fried, garlicky cavolo nero

    Is this a cook-yourself-meal-in-a-box?
    El paso
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited July 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth

    Define "truth".

    Slaves carried to America, by nation, 1519-1867

    Portugal: 5,848,266
    Britain: 3,259,443
    France: 1,381,404
    Spain: 1,061,524
    Netherlands: 554,336
    United States: 305,326
    Denmark: 111,040
    Total: 12,521,339

    "Estimates of the total number of black slaves moved from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Muslim world range from 11-17 million"
    IshmaelZ said:

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims.

    This paper measures and analyzes death rates that prevailed in the Atlantic slave trade during the late 1700s... Annual death rates in this activity were 230 per thousand among the crew and 83 per thousand among slaves. The lack of immunities to the African disease environment contributed to the high death rates among the crew.
    Well so fucking what?
    The British transported less than half the total number of Jews exterminated in the Holocaust by the Nazis as slaves to the Americas, let alone killed them. Indeed less than 5% died on the voyage.

    That does not excuse it but it was not comparable to the Holocaust
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    Let me start by saying slavery is of course abhorrent and wrong.

    However the slave trade was not "largely at the hand of the British" It has existed for hundred, infact thousands of years throughout Africa and throughout the world. Even if you look at the Trans-Atlantic slave trade circa 75% of the slave trade did not involve the British at all.

    A very commonly forgotten fact is that slaves were most often not rounded up and kidnapped by the British but regularly bought from the African Kingdoms engaging in slave trade as they had for many hundred of years.

    This notion that slavery was all Britain's fault is a gross rewriting of history. There are currently over 30 millions slaves living in the world right this day, in comparison the trans Atlantic slave trade combining every European empire, African kingdoms and the Americas over 400 years totalled 12.7 million (12.7 million too many of course), but really puts it into perspective.
    Fuck off. I didn't say it was "all" Britain's fault. Again, you are like Fred West saying Oooh, I suppose you are trying to lay every single murder since Cain and Abel at my door?

    Slavery had not existed in Britain for so long before the Atlantic trade got under way, that actually you would have a much stronger argument in favour of reinstating slavery today on the basis of the historical precedent of the triangular trade, than they had then.

    Economics has a demand side. How would your "African Kingdoms" have engaged in a slave trade without willing buyers?

    and why do your arguments not apply to the holocaust? Europe has always had a rich history of pogroms, there's biblical precedents for the mass deportations of Jews, so let's put things in perspective shall we? How do those arguments differ from yours?
    You said it was "Largely at the hands of the British" which is fundamentally not true.

    Again you are taking my comments completely out of context, i stated several times that slavery is wrong and abhorrent, at no point have i said anything to the contrary, my issue is not with there being blame at Britain for slavery, my issue is quite clearly blaming Britain more than anyone else and making it out, as you said that it was "largely at the hands of Britain"

    Had the British not engaged in slavery, many other empires, whether western or Muslim would have jumped in our place. Again my point is not excusing slavery but pointing out that this was a world wide issue which there are far more guilty parties in than just the British.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth

    Define "truth".

    Slaves carried to America, by nation, 1519-1867

    Portugal: 5,848,266
    Britain: 3,259,443
    France: 1,381,404
    Spain: 1,061,524
    Netherlands: 554,336
    United States: 305,326
    Denmark: 111,040
    Total: 12,521,339

    "Estimates of the total number of black slaves moved from Sub-Saharan Africa to the Muslim world range from 11-17 million"
    IshmaelZ said:

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims.

    This paper measures and analyzes death rates that prevailed in the Atlantic slave trade during the late 1700s... Annual death rates in this activity were 230 per thousand among the crew and 83 per thousand among slaves. The lack of immunities to the African disease environment contributed to the high death rates among the crew.
    Well so fucking what?
    The British transported less than half the total number of Jews exterminated in the Holocaust by the Nazis as slaves to the Americas, let alone killed them
    A record we can justly be proud of.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Slavery is evil.
    Nobody now denies that.

    The academic argument now is whether the British Empire (now trading as the UK), nay, Western capitalism, is irredeemably steeped in the blood of slavery, and must therefore be dismantled outright.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is this Commonwealth Games opening ceremony the most Woke ever?

    What was woke about it?
    I didn't watch, but would be interested.
    I presume the wokophobic mean that there was a poem before that addressed the negative aspects of Empire, and there was a statement in favour of LGBT rights.
    What fucks me off is, there's two completely different questions there. I am right about both, natch, but the answers are at complete polar opposites on the woke spectrum. On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust, largely at the hands of the British, and they are entitled to the truth and to the cessation of denial of this fact. On the other, transsexual people are entitled to all the respect, tolerance and support in the world but we must come down like a ton of bricks on right on wankers who purport to assert their rights as overriding the right of women not to be raped and humiliated, and to enjoy competitive physical sport, and of children not to be experimented on.
    'On the one hand, black Africans were and are the victims of a crime as egregious as, and with worse and more long lasting consequences than, the Holocaust?'

    When did the British Empire ever murder 6 million Blacks in death camps?
    I said the British, not the British Empire.

    We shipped 3.1million Africans across the Atlantic, though rather fewer were alive at the other end. You probably think of this as free passage on the classic trade winds route on an authentic 3 masted square rigger, followed by guaranteed employment on a Caribbean island for life. Actually, a death camp, with the death perhaps slightly more drawn out than for some (not all) Auschwitz victims. Now, proportionate to world population at the time, that's way more than six million. And secondly the further generations of black Afro Americans having a shit time, down to and including now, as a direct consequence, absolutely dwarf the holocaust.

    What bit of that is wrong?
    So no, the British Empire did not pursue extermination camps on Blacks, thanks for the confirmation.

    I notice you also completely ignored the 20,000 Royal Navy sailors who lost their lives helping to eradicate slavery
    Well it depends what you mean by extermination does it not, you smug god bothering prick? Auschwitz Birkenau was an extermination camp for the old the young and the female, otherwise a slave labour camp. Does that make it better in your eyes? How pleasant on a scale of 1 to 10 do you think field work on a Caribbean plantation actually was?

    Your nightly reminder:

    The monarch is, bizarrely, also head of your church.

    In one case this resulted in a great theologian being in the driving seat.

    He unambiguously stated in writing that the relationship between John and the head honcho was one of physical homosexuality.

    Pegging.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,288

    Leon said:

    Speaking of slaving to the New World I just slaved over a fantastic Brazilian fish stew, here is the recipe

    https://www.feastingathome.com/brazilian-fish-stew-aka-moqueca/


    Quite easy to do, probably needs a bit more heat (it's an American recipe), and a delicious, tasty variation on an Asian coconut fish curry. More lime and astringency, less sweetness, and totes yum

    Had it with basmati/wild rice and a flash fried, garlicky cavolo nero

    Is this a cook-yourself-meal-in-a-box?
    Not really. But only takes about 40 minutes to prep and cook. And I find that just right for a personal supper. Enough complexity to be absorbing and fun - during which you can slosh the wine (but not as much as @IshmaelZ or @CorrectHorseBattery) but not hours of tricksiness which isn't worth it

    And it really is flavoursome. An intriguing, citrussy tweak on Asian fish curries from Goa or Thailand
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