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Penny now drops to third in the betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,278

    Keystone said:

    algarkirk said:

    Keystone said:

    Am I the only person on this site who, book-value aside, thinks that Truss is the best candidate?

    Almost everyone else on this site seems to be anti-Truss for one reason or another it seems.

    She seems serious, passionate and capable. I think you should back her to the hilt.
    From a Labour perspective she looks suitable. The public persona and charisma of T May + a harsh set of principles and without the solidity and correctness. I think Labourites are looking at a further period in opposition if Kemi gets it, otherwise they should be reasonably confident. Truss would be the Labour favourite though, as there is something to be said for all then others.

    Truss is probably better than Rishi for a host of reasons. Chief among them not having to take ownership for the economic situation.

    His stature will also be an issue on TV.

    The real question is whether Kemi would really broaden or sustain the party's reach.

    I'm not sure she will appeal to UKIP leaning former Labour voters in the Red Wall - or to Remain leaning Wets down south.

    She is articulate, attractive and sharp. I'm just not sure she is the answer to the fragmenting electoral coalition that the next leader will need to address.

    I don't think there is a large Black middle class vote that will flip if she runs - unlike the sizeable Hindu vote which is already moving into the Tory column.

    And she has personal weaknesses - I think she will look too ideological. She doesn't have personal gravitas - although she might develop that in time.

    My gut feeling is that she doesn't come across well on "women's issues" - health, transport, education etc - which is where the current Tory party is getting crucified among female swing voters. (Hillary Clinton had the same problem - she really loved the big picture economic and geopolitical strategy - and that was ultimately reflected in voter perceptions).

    It is remarkable how little attention the Tories have paid to these issues. Housing has only belatedly got onto the agenda because it is biting young activists.

    So the idea that a black female leader would close off the race and gender angle evaporates under closer scrutiny.

    And if she did win pretty soon she would get dragged down into the sorry horse trading that running the country involves.

    Selling personal sacrifices to the electorate while cutting corporate taxation is going to be a tough message.

    I think she is really cementing her position as a strong challenger for leader in 2025 if the election is lost.
    I don't think the fact that she's black would affect things much - people who vote purely on race are really rare now. She's interesting and lucid and although she's right-wing she does'nt have the air of a head-banger who never listens - witness her firm commitment to net zero. I'm not going to vote Tory if she's leader, but I know people who might, and really wouldn't for the others. Essentially she fits the "time for a change " narrative - Sunak and Truss are not a change, and Mordaunt hasn't succeeded in establishing a USP.

    Tonight's ballot won't change much, But I suspect tomorrow's ballot is going to be all about Truss vs Badenoch, with Mordaunt trailing.
    I don't think Truss wanted to risk another debate match up with Badenoch and has enough momentum off last night to get the numbers.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,745

    Betfair next prime minister
    2.04 Rishi Sunak 49%
    3.7 Liz Truss 27%
    4.9 Penny Mordaunt 20%
    22 Kemi Badenoch 5%
    150 Tom Tugendhat
    250 Dominic Raab

    Next Conservative leader
    2.06 Rishi Sunak 49%
    3.75 Liz Truss 27%
    4.8 Penny Mordaunt 21%
    21 Kemi Badenoch 5%
    120 Tom Tugendhat

    To be in final two
    1.03 Rishi Sunak 97%
    1.82 Liz Truss 55%
    2 Penny Mordaunt 50%
    11 Kemi Badenoch 9%
    100 Tom Tugendhat

    Half an hour left before five become four.

    Betfair next prime minister
    2.14 Rishi Sunak 47%
    3.45 Liz Truss 29%
    5 Penny Mordaunt 20%
    17 Kemi Badenoch 6%
    170 Tom Tugendhat
    250 Dominic Raab

    Next Conservative leader
    2.16 Rishi Sunak 46%
    3.45 Liz Truss 29%
    4.5 Penny Mordaunt 22%
    16.5 Kemi Badenoch 6%
    160 Tom Tugendhat

    To be in final two
    1.04 Rishi Sunak 96%
    1.67 Liz Truss 60%
    2.24 Penny Mordaunt 45%
    11 Kemi Badenoch 9%
    120 Tom Tugendhat
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,729

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    Really? I drive a fairly old and cheap car but it has air conditioning. Cooler in the car than in the house once you've been driving a bit.

    I've been surprised at how pleasant all this is. 37 is a very high number for a thermometer to be saying, but it's a dry heat with a light breeze. Shade is more pleasant than direct sunlight, but both are more pleasant than four degrees and wind and rain.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,492
    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    I note that the roads look very quiet this evening on Google Maps.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    I asked my brother, who speaks Finnish, to check Finnish social media, but he currently can’t be arsed.

    Did you tell him a bunch of politics nerds on the internet needed that information? And he still said no?

    Shunning behaviour.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,600

    I see Kemi Badenoch puts in the anus in Janus, what a lying two faced git.

    After using the CEN hustings to publicly back the Net Zero by 2050 target, Kemi Badenoch now says she COULD delay it, telling @TalkTV

    "Yes there are circumstances where I would delay it... setting a target is not delivering."


    https://twitter.com/NatashaC/status/1549096711271768069

    Only the gullible fall for her words.

    Has Johnson so poisoned public life that we wont be able to go back to a world where every single word they say is not a lie rather than the traditional some of what they say is a lie?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    Get a proper office chair with a mesh seat and back. £1,500 will get you a Herman Miller Aeron.
    I'm a leather man.
    How much so? Leather pants (on you that is)?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,466
    ydoethur said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    Some of us don't have much choice, of course...
    Indeed. And that's important to note. Many of us can talk about the joys of WfH; the poor sods I saw on the West Cambroune building site this morning cannot exactly be working from home. Someone else's future home, maybe...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307
    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,718

    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752

    38 years on? She's 42 so would be retired by then.

    Either that, or she thinks the Tories will have gone the way of the National Liberals, SDLP, Peelites, etc. etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,921

    I see Kemi Badenoch puts in the anus in Janus, what a lying two faced git.

    After using the CEN hustings to publicly back the Net Zero by 2050 target, Kemi Badenoch now says she COULD delay it, telling @TalkTV

    "Yes there are circumstances where I would delay it... setting a target is not delivering."
    ….

    Certainly hasn’t been for this government.

    So AEBE, Net Zero 2070, then ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Keystone said:

    algarkirk said:

    Keystone said:

    Am I the only person on this site who, book-value aside, thinks that Truss is the best candidate?

    Almost everyone else on this site seems to be anti-Truss for one reason or another it seems.

    She seems serious, passionate and capable. I think you should back her to the hilt.
    From a Labour perspective she looks suitable. The public persona and charisma of T May + a harsh set of principles and without the solidity and correctness. I think Labourites are looking at a further period in opposition if Kemi gets it, otherwise they should be reasonably confident. Truss would be the Labour favourite though, as there is something to be said for all then others.

    Truss is probably better than Rishi for a host of reasons. Chief among them not having to take ownership for the economic situation.

    His stature will also be an issue on TV.

    The real question is whether Kemi would really broaden or sustain the party's reach.

    I'm not sure she will appeal to UKIP leaning former Labour voters in the Red Wall - or to Remain leaning Wets down south.

    She is articulate, attractive and sharp. I'm just not sure she is the answer to the fragmenting electoral coalition that the next leader will need to address.

    I don't think there is a large Black middle class vote that will flip if she runs - unlike the sizeable Hindu vote which is already moving into the Tory column.

    And she has personal weaknesses - I think she will look too ideological. She doesn't have personal gravitas - although she might develop that in time.

    My gut feeling is that she doesn't come across well on "women's issues" - health, transport, education etc - which is where the current Tory party is getting crucified among female swing voters. (Hillary Clinton had the same problem - she really loved the big picture economic and geopolitical strategy - and that was ultimately reflected in voter perceptions).

    It is remarkable how little attention the Tories have paid to these issues. Housing has only belatedly got onto the agenda because it is biting young activists.

    So the idea that a black female leader would close off the race and gender angle evaporates under closer scrutiny.

    And if she did win pretty soon she would get dragged down into the sorry horse trading that running the country involves.

    Selling personal sacrifices to the electorate while cutting corporate taxation is going to be a tough message.

    I think she is really cementing her position as a strong challenger for leader in 2025 if the election is lost.
    I don't think the fact that she's black would affect things much - people who vote purely on race are really rare now. She's interesting and lucid and although she's right-wing she does'nt have the air of a head-banger who never listens - witness her firm commitment to net zero. I'm not going to vote Tory if she's leader, but I know people who might, and really wouldn't for the others. Essentially she fits the "time for a change " narrative - Sunak and Truss are not a change, and Mordaunt hasn't succeeded in establishing a USP.

    Tonight's ballot won't change much, But I suspect tomorrow's ballot is going to be all about Truss vs Badenoch, with Mordaunt trailing.
    I don't think Truss wanted to risk another debate match up with Badenoch and has enough momentum off last night to get the numbers.
    Both RS and LT figure, quit while your ahead, or at least not way behind.

    Also each fears chance that PM might perk herself up enough to threaten his OR her top two chances.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    ydoethur said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    Some of us don't have much choice, of course...
    Indeed. And that's important to note. Many of us can talk about the joys of WfH; the poor sods I saw on the West Cambroune building site this morning cannot exactly be working from home. Someone else's future home, maybe...
    I find I work much more effectively at home. And it's much cheaper. Plus the internet connection is about a thousand times better.

    But bizarrely schools are actually going the other way. My school is now insisting we* stay an extra three hours a week on site next year to do work.

    *I say 'we.' I am of course unaffected.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,921

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    Get a proper office chair with a mesh seat and back. £1,500 will get you a Herman Miller Aeron.
    I'm a leather man.
    A pocket tool ?
    Surely not.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    ping said:

    Phil said:



    IIRC Sri Lanka didn’t run out of currency - they chose to ban fertiliser for their own reasons (albeit mad ones) failing to realise that the existing cash export crops were dependent on fertiliser imports & there wasn’t enough domestically produced fertiliser (regardless of source) to make up the difference. So exports fell more than imports & triggered a currency / balance of payments crisis.

    There was an excellent bbc world service programme on this last night;

    “The Climate Question: Can we feed the world without using chemical fertilisers?”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct3kj5

    TBH, I usually skip over these climate programmes because they tend to be rather boring. But the title of this one piqued my interest.

    Anyway;

    Short answer is: No. The world can probably feed about 4bn people. But long term, chemical fertilisers are a big climate problem because methane is such a destructive greenhouse gas.

    Innovative solutions required.
    Farm kangaroos instead of cows. Produce much less methane.
    Milking them is a bit of a faff, though.
    No animal is created/evolved not to digest its food properly. The cows are fed shite, that's why they fart/burp. Do the same to Kangaroos; you'd get the same outcome.
    No, it is because cows ferment cellulose to break it down into digestible form, methane is a byproduct.
    Oh, right you are - I retract the above. It seems that claims of lower carbon footprint rest on 'soil carbon sequestration', rather thsn healthier no
    belchy cows.
    P
    Bullocks

    Grass fed beef is much healthier though of course.

    Not for the cows, it's not :lol:
    Bullocks
    Nice try, have you heifer considered a career in standup?
    You've had your fun, now move along, little doggie!

    My favorite Gary Larson cartoon: Cows and Great Chicago Fire

    https://i.pinimg.com/564x/47/8e/d8/478ed8149f39419110a379386558ee18.jpg
    Nah has to be one of these 2:

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/30258628723705555/

    https://www.pinterest.com/pin/395331673516276612/

    Yes, the second one for me every time.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,921
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    ping said:

    Phil said:



    IIRC Sri Lanka didn’t run out of currency - they chose to ban fertiliser for their own reasons (albeit mad ones) failing to realise that the existing cash export crops were dependent on fertiliser imports & there wasn’t enough domestically produced fertiliser (regardless of source) to make up the difference. So exports fell more than imports & triggered a currency / balance of payments crisis.

    There was an excellent bbc world service programme on this last night;

    “The Climate Question: Can we feed the world without using chemical fertilisers?”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct3kj5

    TBH, I usually skip over these climate programmes because they tend to be rather boring. But the title of this one piqued my interest.

    Anyway;

    Short answer is: No. The world can probably feed about 4bn people. But long term, chemical fertilisers are a big climate problem because methane is such a destructive greenhouse gas.

    Innovative solutions required.
    Farm kangaroos instead of cows. Produce much less methane.
    Milking them is a bit of a faff, though.
    No animal is created/evolved not to digest its food properly. The cows are fed shite, that's why they fart/burp. Do the same to Kangaroos; you'd get the same outcome.
    No, it is because cows ferment cellulose to break it down into digestible form, methane is a byproduct.
    Oh, right you are - I retract the above. It seems that claims of lower carbon footprint rest on 'soil carbon sequestration', rather thsn healthier no
    belchy cows.
    P
    Bullocks

    Grass fed beef is much healthier though of course.

    Not for the cows, it's not :lol:
    Bullocks
    Nice try, have you heifer considered a career in standup?
    A stirk and exposed position, though, up on the stage.
    I was just exploring udder options.
    I’ve herd better from you.
    Yep - cud do better.
    I don't agree with chew.
    Ruminate on it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,087
    tlg86 said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    I note that the roads look very quiet this evening on Google Maps.
    What's the issue with driving?
    Most cars have aircon, unlike most houses here!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Last night Russian state TV ran a report on the unexpected 'benefits' of having your son killed in Ukraine

    You can buy a Lada with the compensation given to you by the state!

    https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1548992984946974720?s=20&t=xXfRKgCd0giTa3V-8jS7Ug
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    Get a proper office chair with a mesh seat and back. £1,500 will get you a Herman Miller Aeron.
    https://www.johnlewis.com/herman-miller-aeron-office-chair-onyx/p6201703
    Picked up decent mesh job (NOT the one you've mentioned) left with "free" sign on the sidewalk.

    Sitting in it right now!
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Did Boris Johnson really say 'We saw off Brenda Hale?'

    If he really did, then he get in the fucking sea.

    The last ravings of a beached whale.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    ping said:

    Phil said:



    IIRC Sri Lanka didn’t run out of currency - they chose to ban fertiliser for their own reasons (albeit mad ones) failing to realise that the existing cash export crops were dependent on fertiliser imports & there wasn’t enough domestically produced fertiliser (regardless of source) to make up the difference. So exports fell more than imports & triggered a currency / balance of payments crisis.

    There was an excellent bbc world service programme on this last night;

    “The Climate Question: Can we feed the world without using chemical fertilisers?”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct3kj5

    TBH, I usually skip over these climate programmes because they tend to be rather boring. But the title of this one piqued my interest.

    Anyway;

    Short answer is: No. The world can probably feed about 4bn people. But long term, chemical fertilisers are a big climate problem because methane is such a destructive greenhouse gas.

    Innovative solutions required.
    Farm kangaroos instead of cows. Produce much less methane.
    Milking them is a bit of a faff, though.
    No animal is created/evolved not to digest its food properly. The cows are fed shite, that's why they fart/burp. Do the same to Kangaroos; you'd get the same outcome.
    No, it is because cows ferment cellulose to break it down into digestible form, methane is a byproduct.
    Oh, right you are - I retract the above. It seems that claims of lower carbon footprint rest on 'soil carbon sequestration', rather thsn healthier no
    belchy cows.
    P
    Bullocks

    Grass fed beef is much healthier though of course.

    Not for the cows, it's not :lol:
    Bullocks
    Nice try, have you heifer considered a career in standup?
    A stirk and exposed position, though, up on the stage.
    I was just exploring udder options.
    I’ve herd better from you.
    Yep - cud do better.
    I don't agree with chew.
    Ruminate on it.
    Since you ask, I will ruminate on it until Morn arrives.

    (Now there's a really obscure pun. I wonder how many people will get it.)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752

    Doesn't she mean, today's politicians won't be in power? That's what she's said at both debates.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922

    How on earth did the British Empire conquer all those hot countries?

    That got a laugh from Mrs. F!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752

    "Dear Kids, FUCK YOU! Love, Mom"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
    I added Calles. But to be fair we could mention Mussolini and Salazar as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,087
    Do you need an official met office weather station nearby to get the UK heat record ?
    I say this as we're looking at some huge temps tommorow but there's not an official met office station anywhere near
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited July 2022
    Today is the first day of of 2-year-old’s potty training.

    He has just managed to do a poo in the potty.

    He is ready for leadership of the Conservative Party.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,552

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    Get a proper office chair with a mesh seat and back. £1,500 will get you a Herman Miller Aeron.
    I'm a leather man.
    Surely something to be said for fishnets.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited July 2022
    Herman Miller chair and a standing desk.....game changers.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    Today is the first day of of 2-year-old’s potty training.

    He has just managed to do a poo in the potty.

    He is ready for leadership of the Conservative Party.

    Because he's done a complete shit?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752

    She's not saying she'll be dead, just that she'll no longer be among those making decisions (this not being the US, which is basically a gerontocracy - this country is run entirely for the benefit of the elderly, but not yet by them).

    Anyway, she is almost 50:50 to be dead by 20260, and more likely than not to be gone by 2070.

    What on earth do you have against her?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479
    edited July 2022

    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    Most of the dinosaurs in the Tory Party died decades ago.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
    I added Calles. But to be fair we could mention Mussolini and Salazar as well.
    Was Calles remotely as bad as the others in that list?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,964
    edited July 2022

    I see Kemi Badenoch puts in the anus in Janus, what a lying two faced git.

    After using the CEN hustings to publicly back the Net Zero by 2050 target, Kemi Badenoch now says she COULD delay it, telling @TalkTV

    "Yes there are circumstances where I would delay it... setting a target is not delivering."


    https://twitter.com/NatashaC/status/1549096711271768069

    Only the gullible fall for her words.

    So are there no circumstances in which it should be delayed?

    I know PM has got into trouble for some changes of position. I didn’t expect KB to overtake her at speed like this! Two U-turns in… what, under 6 hours?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pulpstar said:

    Do you need an official met office weather station nearby to get the UK heat record ?
    I say this as we're looking at some huge temps tommorow but there's not an official met office station anywhere near

    Tentative view of the house is yes you do.

    you would hope the met office would helicopter themselves to likely winning spots and set up temp weather stations, but there is prolly a rule they have to spend 48 hours bedding in before you accept readings from them
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,921
    edited July 2022
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    I note that the roads look very quiet this evening on Google Maps.
    What's the issue with driving?
    Most cars have aircon, unlike most houses here!
    About three quarters, I think, but of those for a significant number it will now be non functional I suspect, since it’s non essential maintenance (until now…).
  • MPartridgeMPartridge Posts: 174
    Cyclefree said:



    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    The 2nd time on this thread you've made this ignorant comment.

    Womens' rights under the Equality Act have been under sustained attack now for a number of years by TRA extremists (generally on the left). They want to abolish the single sex exemptions under that Act & the offence of rape by deception. They've relentlessly attacked online any woman objecting to this, sometimes in the most lurid & violent of terms; they've created an atmosphere where women have been hounded out of their jobs & had to go to law to get their rights; they've defamed women, been forced to apologise & pay compensation by the courts; they've attacked women-only meetings (most recently in Bristol where a friend of mine, married to a transgender person, was present & saw the threats of violence from men).

    Today they're attacking Rachel Reeves for saying - in her words - "Biology is important. A woman is somebody with a biology that is different from a man's biology." They've attacked Rosie Duffield & other Labour women MPs who have sought to stand up for women's rights.

    These attacks are supported by a well-funded lobby group that has sought to misrepresent existing equality law, sought to redefine homosexuality as same-gender attraction & has attacked lesbians who say they're not attracted to male bodies. It spat out its dummy when the ECHR pointed out that there are 9 protected characteristics under the EA, it has a duty to consider them all & no one group's rights take priority over another. It even sought to attack the EHRC at the UN & get its UN designation revoked.

    The dinosaurs are those who do this, who support this attack on women, their rights & who are dismissive of the reason why such rights exist: the need to be protected from assault, the need for privacy & dignity in intimate situations.

    Let me spell this out to you:
    - it is to ensure that teenage girls or women with heavy periods do not have to go into a loo with stains on her clothes or wash out her knickers in the presence of men or boys;
    - it is to ensure that women suffering miscarriages do not have to have men present while cleaning up the blood pouring down their legs;
    - it is to ensure that women who are breast feeding do not have to express milk in front of male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that Muslim women can wash for their prayers without men present;
    - it is to ensure that when women are in a state of deshabille in changing rooms they are not being watched by male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that the disabled or elderly needing intimate care can insist on a same sex carer not a man to wipe their bottom or change their tampon.

    It is not because people don't like difference. It is because they object to being told that they can't have boundaries & have them respected.

    No political party is campaigning to remove transpeople's existing rights under the GRA or the EA. But there are those seeking to do this to women. So we don't need to wait for the future or for the US.
    Bravo, well said
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479
    I was expecting to find the heat oppressive today but in fact it's not too bad. Not much humidity.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,922
    Cyclefree said:



    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    The 2nd time on this thread you've made this ignorant comment.

    Womens' rights under the Equality Act have been under sustained attack now for a number of years by TRA extremists (generally on the left). They want to abolish the single sex exemptions under that Act & the offence of rape by deception. They've relentlessly attacked online any woman objecting to this, sometimes in the most lurid & violent of terms; they've created an atmosphere where women have been hounded out of their jobs & had to go to law to get their rights; they've defamed women, been forced to apologise & pay compensation by the courts; they've attacked women-only meetings (most recently in Bristol where a friend of mine, married to a transgender person, was present & saw the threats of violence from men).

    Today they're attacking Rachel Reeves for saying - in her words - "Biology is important. A woman is somebody with a biology that is different from a man's biology." They've attacked Rosie Duffield & other Labour women MPs who have sought to stand up for women's rights.

    These attacks are supported by a well-funded lobby group that has sought to misrepresent existing equality law, sought to redefine homosexuality as same-gender attraction & has attacked lesbians who say they're not attracted to male bodies. It spat out its dummy when the ECHR pointed out that there are 9 protected characteristics under the EA, it has a duty to consider them all & no one group's rights take priority over another. It even sought to attack the EHRC at the UN & get its UN designation revoked.

    The dinosaurs are those who do this, who support this attack on women, their rights & who are dismissive of the reason why such rights exist: the need to be protected from assault, the need for privacy & dignity in intimate situations.

    Let me spell this out to you:
    - it is to ensure that teenage girls or women with heavy periods do not have to go into a loo with stains on her clothes or wash out her knickers in the presence of men or boys;
    - it is to ensure that women suffering miscarriages do not have to have men present while cleaning up the blood pouring down their legs;
    - it is to ensure that women who are breast feeding do not have to express milk in front of male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that Muslim women can wash for their prayers without men present;
    - it is to ensure that when women are in a state of deshabille in changing rooms they are not being watched by male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that the disabled or elderly needing intimate care can insist on a same sex carer not a man to wipe their bottom or change their tampon.

    It is not because people don't like difference. It is because they object to being told that they can't have boundaries & have them respected.

    No political party is campaigning to remove transpeople's existing rights under the GRA or the EA. But there are those seeking to do this to women. So we don't need to wait for the future or for the US.
    Post of the day! Do trans extremists realise, or care, that they are making the lives of ordinary trans people more difficult?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
    I added Calles. But to be fair we could mention Mussolini and Salazar as well.
    Was Calles remotely as bad as the others in that list?
    I'd compare him to Franco. Possibly Tito too.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,600
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
    I added Calles. But to be fair we could mention Mussolini and Salazar as well.
    Was Calles remotely as bad as the others in that list?
    I'd compare him to Franco. Possibly Tito too.
    Was Tito a "mass murderer"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
    I added Calles. But to be fair we could mention Mussolini and Salazar as well.
    Was Calles remotely as bad as the others in that list?
    I'd compare him to Franco. Possibly Tito too.
    Was Tito a "mass murderer"?
    The 500,000 people he had killed would probably say he was.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,600
    Andy_JS said:

    I was expecting to find the heat oppressive today but in fact it's not too bad. Not much humidity.

    I think that is key. It's awful but not quite as desperate as I was expecting and that's down to it being a dry heat.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,466
    Cyclefree said:



    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    The 2nd time on this thread you've made this ignorant comment.

    Womens' rights under the Equality Act have been under sustained attack now for a number of years by TRA extremists (generally on the left). They want to abolish the single sex exemptions under that Act & the offence of rape by deception. They've relentlessly attacked online any woman objecting to this, sometimes in the most lurid & violent of terms; they've created an atmosphere where women have been hounded out of their jobs & had to go to law to get their rights; they've defamed women, been forced to apologise & pay compensation by the courts; they've attacked women-only meetings (most recently in Bristol where a friend of mine, married to a transgender person, was present & saw the threats of violence from men).

    Today they're attacking Rachel Reeves for saying - in her words - "Biology is important. A woman is somebody with a biology that is different from a man's biology." They've attacked Rosie Duffield & other Labour women MPs who have sought to stand up for women's rights.

    These attacks are supported by a well-funded lobby group that has sought to misrepresent existing equality law, sought to redefine homosexuality as same-gender attraction & has attacked lesbians who say they're not attracted to male bodies. It spat out its dummy when the ECHR pointed out that there are 9 protected characteristics under the EA, it has a duty to consider them all & no one group's rights take priority over another. It even sought to attack the EHRC at the UN & get its UN designation revoked.

    The dinosaurs are those who do this, who support this attack on women, their rights & who are dismissive of the reason why such rights exist: the need to be protected from assault, the need for privacy & dignity in intimate situations.

    Let me spell this out to you:
    - it is to ensure that teenage girls or women with heavy periods do not have to go into a loo with stains on her clothes or wash out her knickers in the presence of men or boys;
    - it is to ensure that women suffering miscarriages do not have to have men present while cleaning up the blood pouring down their legs;
    - it is to ensure that women who are breast feeding do not have to express milk in front of male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that Muslim women can wash for their prayers without men present;
    - it is to ensure that when women are in a state of deshabille in changing rooms they are not being watched by male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that the disabled or elderly needing intimate care can insist on a same sex carer not a man to wipe their bottom or change their tampon.

    It is not because people don't like difference. It is because they object to being told that they can't have boundaries & have them respected.

    No political party is campaigning to remove transpeople's existing rights under the GRA or the EA. But there are those seeking to do this to women. So we don't need to wait for the future or for the US.
    Ms Free, before you accuse other people out for 'ignorant comments', I might suggest you remove the plank from your own eye.

    *You* want to remove the rights for transgender people from being able to change gender. Because you won't let them use women's toilets. Which they need to do by law for a year or two, and which is a reasonable requirement IMO.

    Let me quote back something you said the other day. There is a great deal to say about it:
    "Women can always tell when a man pretends to be a woman. And I'd tell them to use the men's." (*)

    1) You do not speak for all women. I have asked a couple of women, and they disagree with your comments above, one quite fiercely. This is not the first time you have deigned to speak for all women.

    2) Women come in all types, shapes and sizes. Some look a little androgynous. Others, including some gay women, choose to look a little androgynous. Others may not fit your idea of 'woman'. Particularly ones that may be of other ethnicities. Or ones who have had cancer. Or ones who are disabled. Or black. Or just *different*.

    3) Trans people come in all types, shapes and sizes. They are not always cartoonish and obvious. Rarely, IME, because many of them just want to get on with their lives without getting hassled by bigots.

    4) Just think for a moment: if you are wrong, and tell a woman who is a woman to go and use the male facilities, what harm are you causing them? How would you feel is someone said to you that you had to use the gents because you are not a lady?

    5) What gives you the right to police this? If not you, who?

    6) How closely do you 'examine' the people who come into the ladies?

    7) Why not let people be what they want to be, as long as they do not hurt other people?

    8) How common do you really thing this is?

    You are the extremist. Your position will cause no end of harm to trans people and women who do not match your ideal of what a 'woman' is.

    (*) From https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2022/07/11/should-we-be-following-gove-backing-kemi-badenoch/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    Michael Heseltine has been driven completely mad by Brexit.

    That makes it worthwhile on it's own. :lol:
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,706
    edited July 2022
    RE Motorway traffic. Apart from appalling behaviour from drivers who never seem to indicate when changing lanes, I drove home, bar two rest stops, from the Lake District and round from the M40 to the M3 without stopping !!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,600
    Endillion said:

    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752

    She's not saying she'll be dead, just that she'll no longer be among those making decisions (this not being the US, which is basically a gerontocracy - this country is run entirely for the benefit of the elderly, but not yet by them).

    Anyway, she is almost 50:50 to be dead by 20260, and more likely than not to be gone by 2070.

    What on earth do you have against her?
    Maybe "we are not going to be here" comment was about the death of the species thanks to out of control climate change as the permafrost methane melts and kaboom?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067

    It wouldn't shock me if Penny Mordaunt collapses like a flan tonight.

    She's been exposed as being an empty vessel over the last few days and I think a fair few of her votes will move to Rishi.

    Agreed.

    Rishi v Truss final two looking increasingly nailed on, which is the perfect outcome.

    Indeed. Perfect for Labour.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,907
    Cyclefree said:



    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    The 2nd time on this thread you've made this ignorant comment.

    Womens' rights under the Equality Act have been under sustained attack now for a number of years by TRA extremists (generally on the left). They want to abolish the single sex exemptions under that Act & the offence of rape by deception. They've relentlessly attacked online any woman objecting to this, sometimes in the most lurid & violent of terms; they've created an atmosphere where women have been hounded out of their jobs & had to go to law to get their rights; they've defamed women, been forced to apologise & pay compensation by the courts; they've attacked women-only meetings (most recently in Bristol where a friend of mine, married to a transgender person, was present & saw the threats of violence from men).

    Today they're attacking Rachel Reeves for saying - in her words - "Biology is important. A woman is somebody with a biology that is different from a man's biology." They've attacked Rosie Duffield & other Labour women MPs who have sought to stand up for women's rights.

    These attacks are supported by a well-funded lobby group that has sought to misrepresent existing equality law, sought to redefine homosexuality as same-gender attraction & has attacked lesbians who say they're not attracted to male bodies. It spat out its dummy when the ECHR pointed out that there are 9 protected characteristics under the EA, it has a duty to consider them all & no one group's rights take priority over another. It even sought to attack the EHRC at the UN & get its UN designation revoked.

    The dinosaurs are those who do this, who support this attack on women, their rights & who are dismissive of the reason why such rights exist: the need to be protected from assault, the need for privacy & dignity in intimate situations.

    Let me spell this out to you:
    - it is to ensure that teenage girls or women with heavy periods do not have to go into a loo with stains on her clothes or wash out her knickers in the presence of men or boys;
    - it is to ensure that women suffering miscarriages do not have to have men present while cleaning up the blood pouring down their legs;
    - it is to ensure that women who are breast feeding do not have to express milk in front of male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that Muslim women can wash for their prayers without men present;
    - it is to ensure that when women are in a state of deshabille in changing rooms they are not being watched by male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that the disabled or elderly needing intimate care can insist on a same sex carer not a man to wipe their bottom or change their tampon.

    It is not because people don't like difference. It is because they object to being told that they can't have boundaries & have them respected.

    No political party is campaigning to remove transpeople's existing rights under the GRA or the EA. But there are those seeking to do this to women. So we don't need to wait for the future or for the US.
    Question, do you know any actual trans women?

    Most trans women, the second they go on hormones, that puts an end to their willy - it doesn't work any more.

    I am not trying to denigrate your position at all. I'm sure most people IRL would say I'm somewhere between "hard right" "reactionary" "libertarian" if I'm lucky.

    But knowing and speaking to actual trans women has made me realise how vulnerable they are and how they are demonised as "men" when in fact their actions and their behaviour is anything but.

    I understand that there are certain men who want to take advantage of this and manipulate the system for their own gain, and I think women's rights should be respected.

    But I do urge you to chat to some trans women to see the flip side of the coin to how they are treated. Many of them have experienced horrific violence at the hands of men and deserve protection.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,008

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Surely Johnson does not matter now.

    He is a busted flush, circling the plughole.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Cookie said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    Really? I drive a fairly old and cheap car but it has air conditioning. Cooler in the car than in the house once you've been driving a bit.

    I've been surprised at how pleasant all this is. 37 is a very high number for a thermometer to be saying, but it's a dry heat with a light breeze. Shade is more pleasant than direct sunlight, but both are more pleasant than four degrees and wind and rain.
    Sounds delightful. How folks react & respond to heat is very variable. Plus depends what one is doing in the sun, and for how long. Plus availability of respite IF it starts getting to you.

    As for car, it was one of my favorite ways to beat the heat IF it had a/c which was indeed most of the time.

    MANY years ago, worked part-time driving a taxi in Baton Rouge. We were specifically forbidden from turning on the a/c UNLESS we had a fare in the car.

    I knew every patch of shade in town you could drive a taxi cab beneath.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,466
    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    Most of the dinosaurs in the Tory Party died decades ago.
    There are dinosaurs in all the parties: and long may that continue, because they do speak for a sizable portion of the electorate. It is just the type of dinosaur changes over time. They are a brake on change: which may be fine, as long as they do not stop the change. Or reverse it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Did he get away with it?

    He managed to lose his job within three years of winning a significant majority. Is there any precedent for that at all?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,921

    RE Motorway traffic. Apart from appalling behaviour from drivers who never seem to indicate when changing lanes, I drove home, bar two rest stops, from the Lake District without stopping and round from the M40 to the M3 without stopping !!!

    Conversely, I saw a big accident on the other side of the road, and was a mile or so on held up by the Fire Brigade extinguishing a Caterham 7 which appeared spontaneously to have combusted.
    During a 10 mile commute.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    edited July 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    I was expecting to find the heat oppressive today but in fact it's not too bad. Not much humidity.

    The problem is going to be the very warm night approaching - I suspect many will find sleep elusive or difficult and with higher minima the Sun can soon kick the temperatures up tomorrow.

    As the cooler air starts to approach from the West, humidity levels will rise and it actually become very unpleasant as it starts to cool down.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Well, that is because Biden is senile. Johnson is unlikely to be, at his age. Not sure in what sense Johnson "gets away with it" though. You are kinder to him than most of us.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479

    Andy_JS said:

    I was expecting to find the heat oppressive today but in fact it's not too bad. Not much humidity.

    I think that is key. It's awful but not quite as desperate as I was expecting and that's down to it being a dry heat.
    Hopefully tomorrow will be the same.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,600
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Not quite as big a twat as Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Tito, Ceaucescu, Franco and Calles.

    Well, that's all good then.
    If you include the Latin Americans (Peron, Galtieri, Pinochet) he doesn’t even make the top 10!
    I added Calles. But to be fair we could mention Mussolini and Salazar as well.
    Was Calles remotely as bad as the others in that list?
    I'd compare him to Franco. Possibly Tito too.
    Was Tito a "mass murderer"?
    The 500,000 people he had killed would probably say he was.
    Well, you learn something everyday on PB. I had no idea. And I have been to Serbia.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Did he get away with it?

    He managed to lose his job within three years of winning a significant majority. Is there any precedent for that at all?
    Eden.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,689

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Did he get away with it?

    He managed to lose his job within three years of winning a significant majority. Is there any precedent for that at all?
    Anthony Eden
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,837
    MattW said:

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Surely Johnson does not matter now.

    He is a busted flush, circling the plughole.
    Hopefully he’s done his last speech in the chamber; or at least his last of any significance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307

    Andy_JS said:

    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    Most of the dinosaurs in the Tory Party died decades ago.
    There are dinosaurs in all the parties: and long may that continue, because they do speak for a sizable portion of the electorate. It is just the type of dinosaur changes over time. They are a brake on change: which may be fine, as long as they do not stop the change. Or reverse it.
    The problem is, the big dinosaur Rex it for the rest of us.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,492
    Endillion said:

    Christ Kemi really is dumb, the actuarial tables say she'll still be around here.

    …I believe there is climate change and that’s something we do need to tackle, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bankrupt our economy. We've got to take people with us. What would happen if we moved it to 2060 or 2070? We're not going to be here. Let's be realistic”.

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1549096812241354752

    She's not saying she'll be dead, just that she'll no longer be among those making decisions (this not being the US, which is basically a gerontocracy - this country is run entirely for the benefit of the elderly, but not yet by them).

    Anyway, she is almost 50:50 to be dead by 20260, and more likely than not to be gone by 2070.

    What on earth do you have against her?
    She's so overrated, I asked her supporters if they could link to a decent speech or policy she had implemented and there nothing but tumbleweeds.

    She's an empty shell, not the new Thatcher.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297
    edited July 2022

    Cyclefree said:



    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    The 2nd time on this thread you've made this ignorant comment.

    Womens' rights under the Equality Act have been under sustained attack now for a number of years by TRA extremists (generally on the left). They want to abolish the single sex exemptions under that Act & the offence of rape by deception. They've relentlessly attacked online any woman objecting to this, sometimes in the most lurid & violent of terms; they've created an atmosphere where women have been hounded out of their jobs & had to go to law to get their rights; they've defamed women, been forced to apologise & pay compensation by the courts; they've attacked women-only meetings (most recently in Bristol where a friend of mine, married to a transgender person, was present & saw the threats of violence from men).

    Today they're attacking Rachel Reeves for saying - in her words - "Biology is important. A woman is somebody with a biology that is different from a man's biology." They've attacked Rosie Duffield & other Labour women MPs who have sought to stand up for women's rights.

    These attacks are supported by a well-funded lobby group that has sought to misrepresent existing equality law, sought to redefine homosexuality as same-gender attraction & has attacked lesbians who say they're not attracted to male bodies. It spat out its dummy when the ECHR pointed out that there are 9 protected characteristics under the EA, it has a duty to consider them all & no one group's rights take priority over another. It even sought to attack the EHRC at the UN & get its UN designation revoked.

    The dinosaurs are those who do this, who support this attack on women, their rights & who are dismissive of the reason why such rights exist: the need to be protected from assault, the need for privacy & dignity in intimate situations.

    Let me spell this out to you:
    - it is to ensure that teenage girls or women with heavy periods do not have to go into a loo with stains on her clothes or wash out her knickers in the presence of men or boys;
    - it is to ensure that women suffering miscarriages do not have to have men present while cleaning up the blood pouring down their legs;
    - it is to ensure that women who are breast feeding do not have to express milk in front of male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that Muslim women can wash for their prayers without men present;
    - it is to ensure that when women are in a state of deshabille in changing rooms they are not being watched by male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that the disabled or elderly needing intimate care can insist on a same sex carer not a man to wipe their bottom or change their tampon.

    It is not because people don't like difference. It is because they object to being told that they can't have boundaries & have them respected.

    No political party is campaigning to remove transpeople's existing rights under the GRA or the EA. But there are those seeking to do this to women. So we don't need to wait for the future or for the US.
    Post of the day! Do trans extremists realise, or care, that they are making the lives of ordinary trans people more difficult?
    They don't care. I have 2 friends who have gender dysphoria, 1 a lesbian woman and 1 a transwoman and neither support - in fact, are in despair at - the activities of and nonsense being spouted by the activists. Trans people are simply being used by those who are seeking to use gender ideology for their own purposes.

    Worth looking at the money to be made by the drug companies peddling puberty blocking hormones and cross-sex hormones, the lifelong and pretty unpleasant medical consequences of those drugs and who they are funding. This is a medical scandal in the making.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    edited July 2022

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    It's not senility. It's his utter indifference for what is true and what is not. It's a minor thing to either lie about or care so little about so as to get it wrong, but he does it anyway.

    He could so easily have reframed the point to why the government decided to put down the motion because Labour was foolishly demanding one etc, but he didn't, he decided to lie/be careless about an inconsequential detail instead.

    It's a small thing, but as gardenwalker implies, its his inability to do basic things competently that has led to his downfall when he should have been bulletproof. Because getting the small things right matters.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    ydoethur said:

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Did he get away with it?

    He managed to lose his job within three years of winning a significant majority. Is there any precedent for that at all?
    Eden.
    Ah yes. I actually hadn’t realised that Eden won an election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,492
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    I note that the roads look very quiet this evening on Google Maps.
    What's the issue with driving?
    Most cars have aircon, unlike most houses here!
    The roads can crack under extreme heat.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kyf_100 said:

    Cyclefree said:



    MattW said:

    The TERF-led campaign against Penny has worked well, hasn't it?

    It's a shame they're too thick to realise that they've sided with some people who will soon be going after them...

    Radical Feminists in the Tory Party?

    Er ...
    Some in the Tory Party are the TERF's useful idiots.

    Which is exactly the problem. The same sort of dinosaurs within the Conservative Party who spit their tea out at the thought of anyone being any different to them, whether in gender, race, sexuality or anything else, are the same sort who will be spitting their tea out at other things in the future. like same-sex marriage et al. As we are seeing in the US.

    They really are dinosaurs.
    The 2nd time on this thread you've made this ignorant comment.

    Womens' rights under the Equality Act have been under sustained attack now for a number of years by TRA extremists (generally on the left). They want to abolish the single sex exemptions under that Act & the offence of rape by deception. They've relentlessly attacked online any woman objecting to this, sometimes in the most lurid & violent of terms; they've created an atmosphere where women have been hounded out of their jobs & had to go to law to get their rights; they've defamed women, been forced to apologise & pay compensation by the courts; they've attacked women-only meetings (most recently in Bristol where a friend of mine, married to a transgender person, was present & saw the threats of violence from men).

    Today they're attacking Rachel Reeves for saying - in her words - "Biology is important. A woman is somebody with a biology that is different from a man's biology." They've attacked Rosie Duffield & other Labour women MPs who have sought to stand up for women's rights.

    These attacks are supported by a well-funded lobby group that has sought to misrepresent existing equality law, sought to redefine homosexuality as same-gender attraction & has attacked lesbians who say they're not attracted to male bodies. It spat out its dummy when the ECHR pointed out that there are 9 protected characteristics under the EA, it has a duty to consider them all & no one group's rights take priority over another. It even sought to attack the EHRC at the UN & get its UN designation revoked.

    The dinosaurs are those who do this, who support this attack on women, their rights & who are dismissive of the reason why such rights exist: the need to be protected from assault, the need for privacy & dignity in intimate situations.

    Let me spell this out to you:
    - it is to ensure that teenage girls or women with heavy periods do not have to go into a loo with stains on her clothes or wash out her knickers in the presence of men or boys;
    - it is to ensure that women suffering miscarriages do not have to have men present while cleaning up the blood pouring down their legs;
    - it is to ensure that women who are breast feeding do not have to express milk in front of male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that Muslim women can wash for their prayers without men present;
    - it is to ensure that when women are in a state of deshabille in changing rooms they are not being watched by male strangers;
    - it is to ensure that the disabled or elderly needing intimate care can insist on a same sex carer not a man to wipe their bottom or change their tampon.

    It is not because people don't like difference. It is because they object to being told that they can't have boundaries & have them respected.

    No political party is campaigning to remove transpeople's existing rights under the GRA or the EA. But there are those seeking to do this to women. So we don't need to wait for the future or for the US.
    Question, do you know any actual trans women?

    Most trans women, the second they go on hormones, that puts an end to their willy - it doesn't work any more.

    I am not trying to denigrate your position at all. I'm sure most people IRL would say I'm somewhere between "hard right" "reactionary" "libertarian" if I'm lucky.

    But knowing and speaking to actual trans women has made me realise how vulnerable they are and how they are demonised as "men" when in fact their actions and their behaviour is anything but.

    I understand that there are certain men who want to take advantage of this and manipulate the system for their own gain, and I think women's rights should be respected.

    But I do urge you to chat to some trans women to see the flip side of the coin to how they are treated. Many of them have experienced horrific violence at the hands of men and deserve protection.
    You say "I think women's rights should be respected" as if that is a on the one hand, on the other issue on which you have come to a conclusion after weighing the evidence on both sides.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    Taking their time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479
    edited July 2022
    Sunak 115 (+14)
    Mordaunt 82 (-1)
    Truss 71 (+7)
    Badenoch 58 (+9)
    Tugendhat 31 (-1)

    357 votes cast out of 358 possible votes.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    I hope everybody took Raab advice to keep cool by heading to lie on the beach....

    Off to the seaside tomorrow*

    It was 37 degrees a few minutes ago.

    I actually had to unpeel myself from my office chair.

    Will somebody please sacrifice a virgin to the Gods so they can change the weather.

    *I wish
    I've persuaded Mrs J not to drive into work tomorrow, 50 mins there, 50 mins back. Although it's scorchio in our study, it's better than being in a car for 100-120 minutes in this heat.
    I note that the roads look very quiet this evening on Google Maps.
    What's the issue with driving?
    Most cars have aircon, unlike most houses here!
    The roads can crack under extreme heat.
    Slow down, and stay off motorway?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    Come on, then.
    I have potties to manage; bums to wipe.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,307
    edited July 2022

    ydoethur said:

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Did he get away with it?

    He managed to lose his job within three years of winning a significant majority. Is there any precedent for that at all?
    Eden.
    Ah yes. I actually hadn’t realised that Eden won an election.
    Robert Blake's wonderfully acid comment on the subject of Eden's election win was 'Seldom can the euphoria of success have been followed so swiftly by the disillusionment of failure.'

    As an epitaph it would do for Johnson too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,658
    3rd ballot result

    Badenoch 58
    Mordaunt 82
    Sunak 115
    Tugendhat 31
    Truss 71

    Tugendhat out
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    Penny down one!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    edited July 2022
    Liz is hated 😇

    Rishi is PM
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Its like Radiohead - 'No Surprises'!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    bad 58
    mord 82
    115 RS
    71 LT
    31 TT
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    Ah - glad Liz didn’t surge there
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,482
    Nigelb said:

    I think this is a not unreasonable epitaph for him as PM.

    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1549079013443919875
    Boris Johnson is not "the worst sort of mass murderer and criminal in political history," says Conservative MP Sir Edward Leigh.

    Have to ask - will he be remembered for anything?
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    Truss will probably get second then.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    I had predicted a reasonable rise for Sunak, on the basis of Tugendhat and Badenoch losing some, with Truss nipping at Mordaunt's heels. We shall see.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    Kemi 13 behind Liz. Can she get above her?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    moonshine said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    ping said:

    Phil said:



    IIRC Sri Lanka didn’t run out of currency - they chose to ban fertiliser for their own reasons (albeit mad ones) failing to realise that the existing cash export crops were dependent on fertiliser imports & there wasn’t enough domestically produced fertiliser (regardless of source) to make up the difference. So exports fell more than imports & triggered a currency / balance of payments crisis.

    There was an excellent bbc world service programme on this last night;

    “The Climate Question: Can we feed the world without using chemical fertilisers?”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct3kj5

    TBH, I usually skip over these climate programmes because they tend to be rather boring. But the title of this one piqued my interest.

    Anyway;

    Short answer is: No. The world can probably feed about 4bn people. But long term, chemical fertilisers are a big climate problem because methane is such a destructive greenhouse gas.

    Innovative solutions required.
    Farm kangaroos instead of cows. Produce much less methane.
    Milking them is a bit of a faff, though.
    No animal is created/evolved not to digest its food properly. The cows are fed shite, that's why they fart/burp. Do the same to Kangaroos; you'd get the same outcome.
    No, it is because cows ferment cellulose to break it down into digestible form, methane is a byproduct.
    Oh, right you are - I retract the above. It seems that claims of lower carbon footprint rest on 'soil carbon sequestration', rather thsn healthier no
    belchy cows.
    P
    Bullocks

    Grass fed beef is much healthier though of course.

    Not for the cows, it's not :lol:
    Bullocks
    Nice try, have you heifer considered a career in standup?
    A stirk and exposed position, though, up on the stage.
    I was just exploring udder options.
    I’ve herd better from you.
    Yep - cud do better.
    The time for all these terrible cow puns is not during a heatwave, but when it's Friesian.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,600
    Did I not say earlier that Mordaunt might go backwards?

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,837
    Andy_JS said:

    Sunak 115 (+14)
    Mordaunt 82 (-1)
    Truss 71 (+7)
    Badenoch 58 (+9)
    Tugendhat 31 (-1)

    357 votes cast out of 358 possible votes.

    Gavin’s watch stopped again?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Sunak still not through, and only 13 votes between Truss and Badenoch.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,772
    Deffo looking like Sunak vs Truss for the final two.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,295
    edited July 2022
    HYUFD said:

    3rd ballot result

    Badenoch 58
    Mordaunt 82
    Sunak 115
    Tugendhat 31
    Truss 71

    Tugendhat out

    My prediction was
    Sunak, 118
    Mordaunt 84
    Truss, 83
    Badenoch, 56
    Tugendhat 12

    I overestimated Truss and underestimated Tugs, but pretty damn close.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,698
    Very bad for Penny and Truss.

    Truss picks up 7 of 27 Braverman despite endorsement.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    I wonder if Sunak had leant some votes in the first two rounds so that he could take them back to give a sense of momentum.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,479
    You'd think most of Tugendhat's votes will go to Sunak, easily putting him over the 120 votes needed to guarantee a place in the last two.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    IshmaelZ said:

    Enjoyable exchange as Johnson forgets his own motion:

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1549064476909092865

    If Biden did that, people would be shouting "senile", but Johnson gets away with it...

    Well, that is because Biden is senile. Johnson is unlikely to be, at his age. Not sure in what sense Johnson "gets away with it" though. You are kinder to him than most of us.
    "Biden is senile" today, is in same category as "Goldwater is nuts" back in HIS day.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,691
    Penny is done. Think Kemi is done too tomorrow which means Liz is in prime position to make the final two with Rishi.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    edited July 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Kemi 13 behind Liz. Can she get above her?

    Nope. Penny gets top two from here.
This discussion has been closed.