I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
Bloke in front of me in the Sainsbury’s checkout queue had his card declined for his groceries a few days ago. He had to leave the whole trolley. It was awful to watch. Half of me wanted to offer to pay. Felt shit letting my own comparatively trivial issues get me down.
In all honesty Labour ought to be worried if they weren't a long way ahead at this point. The question is whether the decline in the Tory vote is temporary or permanent. I was reading through the thread last night and there was a lot of talk about which candidate would be best etc but we all know from experience how so much depends on the campaign. We have hardly got going yet. Some people will fall flat as a balloon whilst others will surprise us. I just hope it isn't all behind closed doors and MPs have the sense to put candidates in front of the public/media to see how they go down.
In other news the first tranche of Ukrainian troops are coming to be trained in the UK. It all sounds good but the reality is that 10,000 troops is barely a fraction of what they actually need. I'm sure the mass mobilisation continues apace but it might unfortunately give the impression to Brits that the Ukrainian resistance is all rather small scale.
A new leader bounce is to be expected; I wonder though if Sunak is successful then that effect will be depressed because he is already very well known.
From what level do you expect the bounce back when it happens - 33%, 29%, 25%?
I'm not sure the Conservative decline in VI has bottomed out yet, and it may therefore be some time before young Sunil can stop reporting how long it is since the last Tory poll lead.
IMHO, next week's polls will have the Conservatives back in the low to mid thirties. There will be a lot of relief that Johnson is finally going.
But is he going, Sean? In our eyes he may have resigned but in his own I suspect he is just buying time.
Anyway I note your eminent view with interest. Personally I suspect we will see 25% before a return to 35% but I'm not betting on it.
On what planet would he have a single MP left supporting him if he tried to reverse ferret? I mean i just don't get the idea. He has announced his departure in front of Downing Street, he has told the Queen, a leadership election is underway, his cabinet are there solely because he has agreed to go.
'Hes planning to stay!' Is a worse and less pausible twist than season 8 of Game of Thrones
You believe him, Woollie? He's never pulled the wool, dyed or otherwise, over your eyes?
He doesn't give a f*ck about the mayhem he causes. He'll be stopped only if those in a position to restrain him do so. The CP's record on this is not good. Perhaps others can constrain him but personally I won't consider he has gone until he's out of Downing street and Rentokil have fumigated the place.
Oh hes a liar, no doubt, but on this, yes i do. On the most basic, practical level there is no mechanism by which he could cling on and it would be utterly pointless and ruinous to try. Hed at most buy himself 48 to 72 hours. To do what?
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
If you’ve run out of cash, the baby can’t wait till you next get paid.
Oh, you're almost certainly right. This is probably a case where thankfully having a little money means we did not need to consider the overall cost of the stuff.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Apologies if this has been discussed… five days ago, a GB News commentator declared on air that Starmer had taken out an injunction to suppress the news that he had received a FPN… the clip has since been shared on Twitter with at least one Tory activist urging that it be retweeted widely… should this be tolerated of a broadcaster in this country?
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
Imaginings indeed - it is held by that bastion of rabid nationalism, the NTS (recent prop: N. Oliver). Commissioned by the Earl of Elgin in 1964. Romantic nationalism perhaps, bvut I don't recall the good Earl as a SNP activist. And remember when it was vandalised, at the height of the stastue-bothering panic, to zero effs given in Scotland (except by the NTS conservators).
PS Not nearly so interested myself re the Kelpies as in the canal lift at the junction between the canals. Very fine piece of modern engineering.
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
The data from dating apps in terms of how well average to below average looking men do on dating apps are so bad you might be better playing the lottery. Combine that the fact basically one company owns all the dating apps and play on the above to rinse as much money out of users and social media showing beautiful people constantly hooked up with beautiful people in beautiful locations (even if a lot of it is fake).
Good looking people, particularly women, have not only the choice of their local town as they did in the past, but the whole world.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
A radical idea this. But men could try making themselves attractive to women.
A problem with this for society is that the nature of dating apps (and human sociology) is that women focus on a select group of men, based primarily on looks. Partly this is of course down to the imbalance in the number of men and women on the site. It is no ones fault, just how it is.
If all men make a significant improvement in their attractiveness to women, there would still be a similar number of men left behind.
What you are suggesting works on an individual basis but not on a societal basis. When people started lifelong relationships at work, universities, colleges, schools and down the pub, a wider range of qualities would have been seen as attractive than is the case with dating apps.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
I never stop to look at those kings and dukes on horseback. And the twats on the top of columns... what's the point? But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic. Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
The data from dating apps in terms of how well average to below average looking men do on dating apps are so bad you might be better playing the lottery. Combine that the fact basically one company owns all the dating apps and play on the above to rinse as much money out of users and social media showing beautiful people constantly hooked up with beautiful people in beautiful locations (even if a lot of it is fake).
I've always thought that if I went on one, I'd put the most awful piccie of me I could find. As a differentiator.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
I never stop to look at those kings and dukes on horseback. And the twats on the top of columns... what's the point? But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic. Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
Whereas the nearby pink sheep, grass pyramids, and big ear trumpet by the motorway are mainly useful for reassuring one that one is halfway home to Edinburgh/Glasgow (delete for taste).
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
Not being poor helps too.
Yes, Marilyn Monroe's character has a fantastic line about this in Some Like It Hot.
On Sunak, I do wonder whether his leadership pitch will fall apart under close scrutiny.
The economy is in freefall. As CotE, he's presided over a high tax, low growth economy that is in the doldrums. It's simply not good enough to blame Covid/Ukraine etc. His economic policy has been largely reactive and short-term rather than strategic and long-term. And yet, he wants us to believe that he alone will dispense with the "fairy tales" of the last several years.
His pitch seems to be "it was Boris that made me do it, so it's not my fault". I'm no Tory, but if I were I'd not be convinced. I think his performance as Chancellor will carry more weight than his private financial arrangements.
Yes. I think he will give people a run for their money but it's winner takes all and he won't come first.
BTW someone on WiW R4 is tipping Badenoch. (Which would for me be in the category 'Too good to be true').
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
Bloke in front of me in the Sainsbury’s checkout queue had his card declined for his groceries a few days ago. He had to leave the whole trolley. It was awful to watch. Half of me wanted to offer to pay. Felt shit letting my own comparatively trivial issues get me down.
The driver who delivered my Sainsbury's order yesterday apologised for being half an hour early but he had had three card declines that morning and so was well ahead of schedule. He said it is happening every day now.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
Imaginings indeed - it is held by that bastion of rabid nationalism, the NTS (recent prop: N. Oliver). Commissioned by the Earl of Elgin in 1964. Romantic nationalism perhaps, bvut I don't recall the good Earl as a SNP activist. And remember when it was vandalised, at the height of the stastue-bothering panic, to zero effs given in Scotland (except by the NTS conservators).
PS Not nearly so interested myself re the Kelpies as in the canal lift at the junction between the canals. Very fine piece of modern engineering.
The lift was one of the last things built by Butterley Engineering - the same place that built St Pancras trainshed.
It's such a shame that Butterley went bust, after such a long history.
Incidentally, there's also a long canal tunnel a short distance away from there, which you can walk through along the towpath. And a shorter, modern, one built at the same time as the lift. If you're like me, fascinating stuff. For other PBers... less so.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
I never stop to look at those kings and dukes on horseback. And the twats on the top of columns... what's the point? But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic. Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
Whereas the nearby pink sheep, grass pyramids, and big ear trumpet by the motorway are mainly useful for reassuring one that one is halfway home to Edinburgh/Glasgow (delete for taste).
I love that weird trumpet thing. I once found the backroads that allow you to get right up to it and it was a bit disappointing but as a marker on the road it's the best. Like a tripod about to smash the pines at Horsell Common... but also kinda silly. I like seeing it best when I'm westbound, by the way. I don't know why.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
Imaginings indeed - it is held by that bastion of rabid nationalism, the NTS (recent prop: N. Oliver). Commissioned by the Earl of Elgin in 1964. Romantic nationalism perhaps, bvut I don't recall the good Earl as a SNP activist. And remember when it was vandalised, at the height of the stastue-bothering panic, to zero effs given in Scotland (except by the NTS conservators).
PS Not nearly so interested myself re the Kelpies as in the canal lift at the junction between the canals. Very fine piece of modern engineering.
The lift was one of the last things built by Butterley Engineering - the same place that built St Pancras trainshed.
It's such a shame that Butterley went bust, after such a long history.
Incidentally, there's also a long canal tunnel a short distance away from there, which you can walk through along the towpath. And a shorter, modern, one built at the same time as the lift. If you're like me, fascinating stuff. For other PBers... less so.
Yep. Canal trip definitely on the bucket list here.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
I never stop to look at those kings and dukes on horseback. And the twats on the top of columns... what's the point? But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic. Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
Whereas the nearby pink sheep, grass pyramids, and big ear trumpet by the motorway are mainly useful for reassuring one that one is halfway home to Edinburgh/Glasgow (delete for taste).
Honourable mention for the heavy horse statue (by the Kelpie guy) which informs you that Easterhouse is available at the next exit.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
Imaginings indeed - it is held by that bastion of rabid nationalism, the NTS (recent prop: N. Oliver). Commissioned by the Earl of Elgin in 1964. Romantic nationalism perhaps, bvut I don't recall the good Earl as a SNP activist. And remember when it was vandalised, at the height of the stastue-bothering panic, to zero effs given in Scotland (except by the NTS conservators).
PS Not nearly so interested myself re the Kelpies as in the canal lift at the junction between the canals. Very fine piece of modern engineering.
The lift was one of the last things built by Butterley Engineering - the same place that built St Pancras trainshed.
It's such a shame that Butterley went bust, after such a long history.
Incidentally, there's also a long canal tunnel a short distance away from there, which you can walk through along the towpath. And a shorter, modern, one built at the same time as the lift. If you're like me, fascinating stuff. For other PBers... less so.
Yep. Canal trip definitely on the bucket list here.
I'd like to go through by boat but I have to say going to visit it by car and sitting and watching it in action left me feeling surprisingly flat. I mean, it's objectively great, but it felt a bit too much like a tourist ritual like the Eiffel Tower or the Little Mermaid: when you get there you're left feeling "oh, ok, I guess I've done that now"
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
If you’ve run out of cash, the baby can’t wait till you next get paid.
It's also relatively expensive for the volume of it, so high value to be nicked, similar to razor blades.
Once when we were pushing our pram through a poor part of town, a lady approached us and offered to sell us baby formula. We declined, but I was amazed even at the idea of someone trying to peddle potentially dodgy formula.
For older demographic, no idea how that plays out. I imagine things like bald blokes probably get raw end of the stick unless they are in the small number of men who look all Jason Statham without a mop. And i presume successful career is a big driver to how they do. Women on the whole want to date up and across and if you have kids from a previous relationship, you probably don't want a 40 year old who still lives with their mum working at Asda.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Asexuality is the way. Everyone is equally unappealing. Its the indiscriminate sexual identity
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
I never stop to look at those kings and dukes on horseback. And the twats on the top of columns... what's the point? But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic. Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
Whereas the nearby pink sheep, grass pyramids, and big ear trumpet by the motorway are mainly useful for reassuring one that one is halfway home to Edinburgh/Glasgow (delete for taste).
Honourable mention for the heavy horse statue (by the Kelpie guy) which informs you that Easterhouse is available at the next exit.
On the subject of the Red Wall, it's a mistake to think of such seats as desperately poor. And, it's important too, to distinguish between those seats that are historic marginal constituencies, like Darlington, the Boltons and the Burys, and those that have been trending Conservative for a long time (Stoke, South Yorkshire, parts of Durham).
Labour has every chance of winning back the marginals, but a much less good chance of winning back those places that are heading in the same direction as seats like NW Leicestershire, Burton, Tamworth, historically marginal, but now solidly Conservative.
WRT the Conservatives "natural supporters", centre-right parties across the world are finding their support comes increasingly from lower middle class and working class homeowners, and decreasingly from the very well off. Of course, they'll still get a lot of support from the latter, but they shouldn't expect to regain the support they had one or two generations ago. Times change. All that matters is winning 326 seats. It doesn't matter which seats those are.
That's a reasonable argument if you can assume that the conditions that gave rise to past trends will continue in future, but in our present extraordinary political environment that's rather a big stretch. How much of those trends are down to demographics, how much to political factors? If the former, trends may continue, but if the latter, trends are reverseable. So there should be the potential for a very big swing back to Labour in some of those seats - it should still be easier to persuade people to revert back to their pre 2010 voting habits than to change from voting Conservative for the first time in a lifetime.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
I never stop to look at those kings and dukes on horseback. And the twats on the top of columns... what's the point? But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic. Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
Whereas the nearby pink sheep, grass pyramids, and big ear trumpet by the motorway are mainly useful for reassuring one that one is halfway home to Edinburgh/Glasgow (delete for taste).
Honourable mention for the heavy horse statue (by the Kelpie guy) which informs you that Easterhouse is available at the next exit.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
Oh god, I forgot to point out that Falkirk is a total shithole when I mentioned it. Good catch. I intended to make it clear but did not. Although the Kelpies at night are WELL worth a visit and it's easy if you're in Falkirk and you have a car. Lit up with slowly changing coloured lights, on a late summer evening as the last of the day turns rusty black, they are one of the most magical sights in the whole of the UK. To stand under the down-facing horse's gaze in the gloaming gives you a primal shiver.
Yeah, the Kelpies are good. On paper it sounds like they may be unbearably kitsch, but they do in fact work really well.
Hmmm, I see what you mean but it never crossed my mind to think of them that way. They're just too well executed to be anything other than magnificent. I don't think I'll ever get bored of them.
Public statuary is a tricky thing, ferinstance I think the Angel of the North is kitsch, and weirdly proportioned to boot.
I do like a bit of equestrian statuary though; the Bannockburn Robert the Bruce does verge a teeny bit on the fashy nationalism embodied in the worst imaginings of Unionists and Daily Mail columnists, but I like it cos it's got a horsey (and is based on a very good, authenticated story).
Imaginings indeed - it is held by that bastion of rabid nationalism, the NTS (recent prop: N. Oliver). Commissioned by the Earl of Elgin in 1964. Romantic nationalism perhaps, bvut I don't recall the good Earl as a SNP activist. And remember when it was vandalised, at the height of the stastue-bothering panic, to zero effs given in Scotland (except by the NTS conservators).
PS Not nearly so interested myself re the Kelpies as in the canal lift at the junction between the canals. Very fine piece of modern engineering.
The lift was one of the last things built by Butterley Engineering - the same place that built St Pancras trainshed.
It's such a shame that Butterley went bust, after such a long history.
Incidentally, there's also a long canal tunnel a short distance away from there, which you can walk through along the towpath. And a shorter, modern, one built at the same time as the lift. If you're like me, fascinating stuff. For other PBers... less so.
Yep. Canal trip definitely on the bucket list here.
I'd like to go through by boat but I have to say going to visit it by car and sitting and watching it in action left me feeling surprisingly flat. I mean, it's objectively great, but it felt a bit too much like a tourist ritual like the Eiffel Tower or the Little Mermaid: when you get there you're left feeling "oh, ok, I guess I've done that now"
Yes, best to combine it with a canal trip and a walk and explore - the Roman Wall is nearby, and a Watt steam engine connection I've not explored (engine long gone).
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Asexuality is the way. Everyone is equally unappealing. Its the indiscriminate sexual identity
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
The survey data does suggest that there is a real effect. Part of the problem is that some of the people affected get dragged into an online subculture that makes them less attractive and less likely to meet potential partners.
The government could usefully tax online activities and cut business rates for pubs and clubs and it would probably help the situation.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Picky? In parts of England you would have to be the daughter of an earl to be as picky as that.
I actually hadn’t read the contract, and now I’m like ???? This doofus agreed to SPECIFIC PERFORMANCE to pay $44 billion????
Probably going to cost him $10bn plus to walk away.
His net worth will go up and down by that amount on a single day several times a year. Costly but not disastrous.
I struggle to comprehend Musk's wealth; he's like a human NFT worth as much as people are willing to assign to him (vs. e.g. Bezos, Gates etc. who have a clear. identifiable source of regular profitable income).
Musk has a clear, identifiable source of regular, profitable income: Tesla. Tesla is a profitable business.
SpaceX may or may not be profitable, but its not publicly traded.
However shares are not based on profits today, they're ultimately based upon expected dividends in the future* so Tesla's shares are based upon expectations of future profits more than current profit levels, but it is profitable.
* This was the subject of my Masters Dissertation incidentally, so I did a fair bit of research on this in the past, using 20th century data.
My dissertation was spent smashing up train relays, so a slightly different topic.
Yours sounds more fun! Mine involved a lot of spreadsheets and some programming that I did to do parts of the analysis.
From memory my conclusion was that share prices are (in general) linked well to a multiplier of risk-averse time value of money expected value of future dividends, and that (in general) they tend to be reasonably accurate as such. Of course expectations can be wrong.
Whether Tesla sticks to the risk-averse element of that I would certainly be sceptical about, but its certainly right that TVM of EV of future dividends matters more than present ones.
The bet with Tesla is basically that it dominates the future mass EV market. I'm sceptical, and hold some Toyota stock as globally that is the biggest car seller.
Indeed, for clarity though I'm sure you understood it, my use of EV (expected value) was different to EV (electric vehicles).
There is a major amount of risk involved in Tesla shares at the moment, as it certainly is a bet. Worst case, Tesla remains a niche but profitable business - it will have some value, but nothing like its present valuation.
Best case Tesla dominates the car market and profitably expands its technology beyond just cars (see powerwalls etc) in which case its current valuation could undervalue it.
Considering the market is normally supposed to be risk-averse, I would suggest that Tesla is overvalued compared to what it should be, as people seem to have significantly bought into the best case scenario more than risk-adjusted for the worse case scenarios, as would normally happen in the market.
Agreed. Another recent factor has been Tesla’s somewhat artificial place in the car sales charts.
It has the effect of making them look really good, when a little more digging says that the problem is more closely related to the chip shortage problem which affects Tesla less than the more traditional manufacturers.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Don't live with their parents is not a trivial ambition for lots of young, and indeed nowadays not so young, people anymore. High house prices really destabilise society for the young.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
Well I can't argue with the numbers - more young people are sexually inactive and the increase has been greater for men. But even people who are having sex are having less of it, according to the study, suggesting that maybe people just don't want to have sex so much. The study mentions declining testosterone - which I think is evident just looking at young men. Plus generally arrested development. I am just wary of this Incel explanation as it simultaneously robs men of agency over their own lives and makes women the villains simply for exercising choice over their own sex life. I do think that if men put in a bit more effort they would probably solve a lot of their problems. Sex isn't a right, it is a privilege that you have to work for.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Asexuality is the way. Everyone is equally unappealing. Its the indiscriminate sexual identity
Mr. Morrissey I presume?
In all seriousness its a really comfortable place. Not for everyone of course.
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
If you’ve run out of cash, the baby can’t wait till you next get paid.
It's also relatively expensive for the volume of it, so high value to be nicked, similar to razor blades.
Once when we were pushing our pram through a poor part of town, a lady approached us and offered to sell us baby formula. We declined, but I was amazed even at the idea of someone trying to peddle potentially dodgy formula.
Decent shelf life too, so you can stock up & sell it over time to a clientele that absolutely needs your product. I have a vague memory of reading that Tide washing powder played a similar role in downtrodden urban parts of the USA.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
Well I can't argue with the numbers - more young people are sexually inactive and the increase has been greater for men. But even people who are having sex are having less of it, according to the study, suggesting that maybe people just don't want to have sex so much. The study mentions declining testosterone - which I think is evident just looking at young men. Plus generally arrested development. I am just wary of this Incel explanation as it simultaneously robs men of agency over their own lives and makes women the villains simply for exercising choice over their own sex life. I do think that if men put in a bit more effort they would probably solve a lot of their problems. Sex isn't a right, it is a privilege that you have to work for.
“Well I can’t argue with the numbers but I’m going to argue with the numbers”
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Don't live with their parents is not a trivial ambition for lots of young, and indeed nowadays not so young, people anymore. High house prices really destabilise society for the young.
Yes. And it is the single best argument for why they still want to go to University, not live with their parents and do an apprenticeship. The opportunity to meet loads of potential new partners, not just the ones you knew at school. And not have every bugger knowing all your business.
I don't get why incels become a problem at all. There have been periods of my life where I yearned to have sex with a (sometimes specific, sometimes not) woman and wasn't getting any at all. But what happened as a result? I didn't attack anyone or whine bitterly about it. And I think I'm pretty normal in that. What makes some other men different?
I have my suspicion that the kind of men who cause trouble are the kind of men who would be causing trouble anyway. If they were getting laid, they'd find some other reason to attack and belittle people (mostly women, I guess). I strongly suspect lack of sex is just an excuse.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
Well I can't argue with the numbers - more young people are sexually inactive and the increase has been greater for men. But even people who are having sex are having less of it, according to the study, suggesting that maybe people just don't want to have sex so much. The study mentions declining testosterone - which I think is evident just looking at young men. Plus generally arrested development. I am just wary of this Incel explanation as it simultaneously robs men of agency over their own lives and makes women the villains simply for exercising choice over their own sex life. I do think that if men put in a bit more effort they would probably solve a lot of their problems. Sex isn't a right, it is a privilege that you have to work for.
“Well I can’t argue with the numbers but I’m going to argue with the numbers”
OK..
Well I can't argue with the numbers but I will argue with your explanation for the numbers. FTFY.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
I recall a Pratchett gag about sexual fantasies being akin to elaborate food fantasies, and at the end of the day people will be happy with regular sausage and chips.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Don't live with their parents is not a trivial ambition for lots of young, and indeed nowadays not so young, people anymore. High house prices really destabilise society for the young.
Have you read some of the Goodreads reviews of that? Comedy gold
I read one of his books once because he told me he'd based a disreputable drunk who made his living advertising sanitary products on me!
Naturally I had my top legal team Dooey Cheetham and Howe on standby but it turned out to be a damp squib (if you'll excuse the pun) Goodreads were being generous.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
Well I can't argue with the numbers - more young people are sexually inactive and the increase has been greater for men. But even people who are having sex are having less of it, according to the study, suggesting that maybe people just don't want to have sex so much. The study mentions declining testosterone - which I think is evident just looking at young men. Plus generally arrested development. I am just wary of this Incel explanation as it simultaneously robs men of agency over their own lives and makes women the villains simply for exercising choice over their own sex life. I do think that if men put in a bit more effort they would probably solve a lot of their problems. Sex isn't a right, it is a privilege that you have to work for.
Is it wrong that this whole debate is making me wonder how much fun I could be having dropping down and age category and competing with those 20 something men if I wasn’t married?
On Sunak, I do wonder whether his leadership pitch will fall apart under close scrutiny.
The economy is in freefall. As CotE, he's presided over a high tax, low growth economy that is in the doldrums. It's simply not good enough to blame Covid/Ukraine etc. His economic policy has been largely reactive and short-term rather than strategic and long-term. And yet, he wants us to believe that he alone will dispense with the "fairy tales" of the last several years.
His pitch seems to be "it was Boris that made me do it, so it's not my fault". I'm no Tory, but if I were I'd not be convinced. I think his performance as Chancellor will carry more weight than his private financial arrangements.
I pretty well agree with that. Imagine Brown taking over from the unpopular Blair in 2007, but in the midst of an extreme economic crisis that had already developed on his watch.
Sunak's private financial arrangements aren't that critical in terms of the non-dom status and all that, but what I think could hurt him is having to implement inevitable economic pain on people when he himself has so much wealth as to publically feature in the Sunday Times rich list. Man of the people he isn't.
A big problem with the dating apps is many learn what you like, so its a bit like spotify you aren't even getting recommended opera if all you keep listening to is metal. Women are much more picky over swiping and so the claims of well just have a wash and tidy yourself up, they aren't even been shown...unless you then go into their paid funnel which hoses people for a hell of a lot of money...and even then, so you get promoted, in between a lot of really good looking people which the algorithm concentretes on showing because they get a lot of interaction.
I imagine it is a very depressing experience....then after all that rejection, trying to go out into the real world and pull. I can see how people end up in a dark place.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
Am I too cynical in thinking she has been put to it by one of the serious candidates in order to help split the Right vote as described above? Reward is Home Sec or some such?
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
If you’ve run out of cash, the baby can’t wait till you next get paid.
It's also relatively expensive for the volume of it, so high value to be nicked, similar to razor blades.
Once when we were pushing our pram through a poor part of town, a lady approached us and offered to sell us baby formula. We declined, but I was amazed even at the idea of someone trying to peddle potentially dodgy formula.
Decent shelf life too, so you can stock up & sell it over time to a clientele that absolutely needs your product. I have a vague memory of reading that Tide washing powder played a similar role in downtrodden urban parts of the USA.
My local store sometimes alarms the cheese. Apparently it's the sort of thing you can quickly flog, unlike say a bottle if expensive whiskey.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
Don't they know how the system works? Your camp can be split six ways in the first round, but ultimately coalesce round the last man or woman standing. That's how the exhaustive ballot is meant to work. No need to pick a single candidate ahead of time. Interesting that the four "Darlings of the Right" are all women.
I don't get why incels become a problem at all. There have been periods of my life where I yearned to have sex with a (sometimes specific, sometimes not) woman and wasn't getting any at all. But what happened as a result? I didn't attack anyone or whine bitterly about it. And I think I'm pretty normal in that. What makes some other men different?
I have my suspicion that the kind of men who cause trouble are the kind of men who would be causing trouble anyway. If they were getting laid, they'd find some other reason to attack and belittle people (mostly women, I guess). I strongly suspect lack of sex is just an excuse.
Yep, I can think of a C20th incel type who when he started getting some (albeit in an allegedly peverse form) still caused a HELLUVA lot of trouble.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
You're dismissing empirical evidence with hunches. Why? It sounds like you don't want it to be true.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Don't live with their parents is not a trivial ambition for lots of young, and indeed nowadays not so young, people anymore. High house prices really destabilise society for the young.
Yes. And it is the single best argument for why they still want to go to University, not live with their parents and do an apprenticeship. The opportunity to meet loads of potential new partners, not just the ones you knew at school. And not have every bugger knowing all your business.
Absolutely. I would say about 50% if my motivation for going to university was to get laid. I even applied to the college with the best ratio of women to men in order to improve my chances!
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
Well I can't argue with the numbers - more young people are sexually inactive and the increase has been greater for men. But even people who are having sex are having less of it, according to the study, suggesting that maybe people just don't want to have sex so much. The study mentions declining testosterone - which I think is evident just looking at young men. Plus generally arrested development. I am just wary of this Incel explanation as it simultaneously robs men of agency over their own lives and makes women the villains simply for exercising choice over their own sex life. I do think that if men put in a bit more effort they would probably solve a lot of their problems. Sex isn't a right, it is a privilege that you have to work for.
It is a numbers game. Simplifying immensely but if 1 bloke puts in more effort and gets successful, then another bloke who would have met someone, won't.
It is a structural problem with society, sure women are not the villains, but nor are men putting in less effort than those of 30 years ago. Far more go to the gym, are teetotal, get better grades, and go to university than was the case in my generation back then.
I think Andrea might have been giving someone out, it's clearly missing middle..
Two different moments. Your picture is when she's leaving and she shouted "he who laughs last laughs loudest" or similar while wagging her finger. The other moment is on her way in when she clearly threw up her middle finger at the crowd.
Both moments were pretty undignified and faintly unhinged.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
This is a weird debate. Leon is for once right, if his usual hyperbolic self and the posters who are consistently right on most things are wrong.
Yes, there’s lots of evidence out there that the current generation of young adults is having less sex & starting relationships later than previous generations. Maybe linked to the fact that they’re drinking a lot less than we did?
Teenage pregnancy rates have dropped quite a bit as a result, which is a positive outcome.
I mean, we are familiar with its mania on Megan & Harry, its Royal fixation, its interest in the doings of minor Zelebs, the puff-pieces for Farage, its unhealthy interest in boats that are crossing the Channel, and so on.
But, I have noticed in Mail Online over the last few weeks a new and slightly peculiar obsession.
Lurpak Spreadable.
There are been innumerable articles in the Mail on the price of Lurpak Spreadable, on how supermarkets are having to transfer security tags from bottles of whisky to Lurpak Spreadable to prevent vast shoplifting gangs, voxpops from shoppers stunned by the soaring price of Lurpak Spreadable, how to make your own Lurpak Spreadable, how Aldi's Nordpak Spreadable compares.
And using Google news, I see the Express, the Mirror and the Record are similarly obsessed, e.g.,
Tory leadership hopefuls needing a bit of 'common people' cred take note!
"Your Lurpak Spreadable will cost your more under Rishi, but I will ensure every natural-born Briton has a right to affordable, spreadable Lurpak"
A few years ago, I was having a chat with a checkout lady at a local shop. She mentioned that the two things that were shoplifted most were baby milk powder and alcohol.
I can understand someone shoplifting the latter, but baby milk powder?
I also hope they don't combine the two...
If you’ve run out of cash, the baby can’t wait till you next get paid.
It's also relatively expensive for the volume of it, so high value to be nicked, similar to razor blades.
Once when we were pushing our pram through a poor part of town, a lady approached us and offered to sell us baby formula. We declined, but I was amazed even at the idea of someone trying to peddle potentially dodgy formula.
Decent shelf life too, so you can stock up & sell it over time to a clientele that absolutely needs your product. I have a vague memory of reading that Tide washing powder played a similar role in downtrodden urban parts of the USA.
My local store sometimes alarms the cheese. Apparently it's the sort of thing you can quickly flog, unlike say a bottle if expensive whiskey.
I have an image of a kilo of mature Orkney cheddar quivering in the corner of the chill cabinet.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
In 2019 there was no real danger of Boris getting to the final two, but various toadies still moaned about the possibility and denying the members. Even though they all know the system.
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
You're dismissing empirical evidence with hunches. Why? It sounds like you don't want it to be true.
I wasn't aware of the empirical evidence. I read the study and it seems legit so I accept that more young people are not having sex and the increase has been greater for men. Of course I don't want it to be true, nothing is sadder than the thought of people not having sex.
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
Women aren’t that picky? So it’s all fine then
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
This is a weird debate. Leon is for once right, if his usual hyperbolic self and the posters who are consistently right on most things are wrong.
Yes, there’s lots of evidence out there that the current generation of young adults is having less sex & starting relationships later than previous generations. Maybe linked to the fact that they’re drinking a lot less than we did?
Teenage pregnancy rates have dropped quite a bit as a result, which is a positive outcome.
On Friday he told new Cabinet he would not be making any major decisions or big calls in his remaining weeks.
By Saturday that is revealed to be a lie.
VONC now. Get him out of No 10.
I raised this as a point at the time "no major decisions" was announced.. It always was unsustainable to not announce pay offers to millions, many of whom have already balloted for strikes, and facing double digit inflation, for the convenience of the Tory Party process. I was assured it was all in hand, and wouldn't be an issue.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
In 2019 there was no real danger of Boris getting to the final two, but various toadies still moaned about the possibility and denying the members. Even though they all know the system.
Scott's post doesn't make sense as after the first 2 rounds, candidates are eliminated one at a time so it's very easy for voters of a candidate from the right who loses to transfer to another candidate.
Also the one nation wing was decimated at the last election with so many of the hard remainers being forced out
The blockquoting has gone haywire which is my fault as I was trying to pick it up from the thread that has now become a Boris Johnson i.e. ceased to be.
In particular it was this comment by Foxy: 'racism is either much more marginal or unconscious'.
Quite simply untrue, I'm afraid.
In fact, I'd say that since c. 2015 racism AND homophobia have been on the rise. Brexit has of course stirred that ugly cauldron.
I'm afraid it's alive and kicking and I was responding to the suggestion of the contrary. No need to overreact. It was supposed to be a debate.
Where is the evidence that homophobia is on the rise? As a society we are more open and tolerant than ever before.
There's definitely been a recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks.
And that's an exemplar of the kind of thing that is vile.
Why do you do it? Why do you think it's even remotely acceptable in a civilised society to post something like that? You think it's funny. It isn't.
You can take issue with “cocks” but it’s just vulgar slang
Indisputable? I dispute that there is a serious increase in hatred as such.
The "cotton ceiling" seems to be a myth spread by idiots on both sides online. Where is any such hatred happening in this country, in the real world?
It isn't hatred to oppose those who talk about "the cotton ceiling", but I struggle to find anyone in the real world who actually does. Could you name anyone in this country who actually hates people based on that?
I see you carefully say “real world” so I presume you’re ignoring the net
Yet you shouldn’t. Much of life now takes place online. It is life. See us on here!
And online you can see real and vicious bullying of women who object to the extreme trans agenda. Women lose jobs and careers over this. It’s very “real”
Absolutely I'm excluding the net, much of which is dominated by Russian trolls and not real people.
So yes, real people please. Perhaps you could name some real lesbians in this country and name some real people who've shown hatred towards them because of their refusal to sleep with "ladies with cocks".
So JKRowling doesn’t exist because it all happens online “which is full of Russian trolls”
OK…
JK Rowling is a lesbian being abused for not sleeping with ladies with cocks is she?
That's funny, I thought she was married to a man.
Which ladies with cocks have abused a married straight woman for being a lesbian that won't sleep with them?
No idea. It wasn’t my assertion
It IS my assertion that TRA bullying of women is a real thing. Rowling is an example. Multiple female Guardian journos. Julie Bindel. Kathleen Stock the academic. And many more
Yes that is real, but that wasn't the subject.
The claim was that there has been a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks" and when that was disputed you said it was indisputable.
TRA bullying of feminists, which is very, very real and serious, is not a "recent increase in hatred towards lesbians who refuse to like "ladies" with cocks".
It is feminists and female athletes that seem to get the real brunt of TRA extremists far more than lesbians, in the real world. Can we agree on that?
Did you see this link to this article about the abuse experienced by lesbians who refuse to have sex with male-bodied self-identified transwomen?
Anyone who abuses anyone for not having sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, is no better than a rapist.
There was a good essay on this topic in the LRB, exploring the space around consent, the need for an absolute right to choose & refuse whoever we want (or do not want) to sleep with & how that impacts the wider issues around prejudice & identity & the modern world of dating.
No strong conclusions IIRC, but rather a “here’s how personal choices (which we have to defend, for obvious reasons) can feed into societal level prejudice that we might want to talk about, because that matters too”. This isn‘t (necessarily) about trans issues - the main focus of the essay was incel culture IIRC.
I’ll see if I can dig up the link - it might be online.
It’s a very real problem: incels - made worse by online dating apps
If you’ve got half the males in your society not getting any, then that is a recipe for severe turmoil. See multiple Islamic societies through the ages
Many mass shootings in America are perped by incels. And you can see why. If you are denied the chance to ever reproduce, and denied the chance to ever enjoy sex, then what is left? Some people can find solace in other things. Many can’t
You're using exactly the same logic as "cotton ceiling" advocates use.
Nobody has a right to demand sex from anyone else. Anyone who wants it, should find someone who wants it with them, and try to make themselves attractive to them.
Where the FUCK do I say “anyone has a right to demand sex from someone else”
Really? WHERE? Stop putting words in my mouth, you prat
I’m saying this is a real social problem, and it has got majorly worse because of dating apps meaning women don’t give the bottom 50% of men (in terms of looks) even a chance of a conversation. How do we fix it? I dunno. But the stats on young people - especially men - going without sex, are truly alarming
This does not mean an incel man has a right to sex from a woman who does not want to give it. Of course he doesn’t. It’s her body
Is this right? I see quite a lot of ugly looking blokes who have managed to pull - including myself! Even plenty of dating apps focus more on personality than looks.
it is right. There are lots of researchers and journalists looking at this
I reckon these blokes are getting no less sex than before, but they are living in a world where they can see other people having a lot more sex than them. Plus widespread availability of pornography has raised their expectations and also probably made their sexual preferences less compatible with what they are likely to get offered by a partner. Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
I recall a Pratchett gag about sexual fantasies being akin to elaborate food fantasies, and at the end of the day people will be happy with regular sausage and chips.
A big problem with the dating apps is many learn what you like, so its a bit like spotify you aren't even getting recommended opera if all you keep listening to is metal. Women are much more picky over swiping and so the claims of well just have a wash and tidy yourself up, they aren't even been shown...unless you then go into their paid funnel which hoses people for a hell of a lot of money...and even then, so you get promoted, in between a lot of really good looking people which the algorithm concentretes on showing because they get a lot of interaction.
I imagine it is a very depressing experience....then after all that rejection, trying to go out into the real world and pull. I can see how people end up in a dark place.
with the apps it's the pics not the text that matters. But filters can work in everyones favour.
Hearing from some voices on right of Conservative party that there are big worries about split votes between say Liz Truss, Priti Patel, Kemi Badenoch and Suella Braverman and that tactical votes from centre & more liberal wing cd block candidate from right reaching final two 1/
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
Am I too cynical in thinking she has been put to it by one of the serious candidates in order to help split the Right vote as described above? Reward is Home Sec or some such?
I don't see how it helps. When candidates are eliminated, their voters reallocate themselves to other remaining candidates. Splitting the vote doesn't matter because has the opportunity to coalesce later in the process.
On Friday he told new Cabinet he would not be making any major decisions or big calls in his remaining weeks.
By Saturday that is revealed to be a lie.
VONC now. Get him out of No 10.
I have to defend him on this one. The civil service decision below the senior civil service has been made and is devolved to Departments, and things like the SCS, NHS, and armed forces passed on to the independent pay review bodies (with some fiscal limits). So he’ll just be announcing what those bodies said, which anyone in post would have to do.
A big problem with the dating apps is many learn what you like, so its a bit like spotify you aren't even getting recommended opera if all you keep listening to is metal. Women are much more picky over swiping and so the claims of well just have a wash and tidy yourself up, they aren't even been shown...unless you then go into their paid funnel which hoses people for a hell of a lot of money...and even then, so you get promoted, in between a lot of really good looking people which the algorithm concentretes on showing because they get a lot of interaction.
I imagine it is a very depressing experience....then after all that rejection, trying to go out into the real world and pull. I can see how people end up in a dark place.
Of course. But the usual suspects dismiss it all and say men should “just have a wash”
This really is PB at its worst. Mulishly stupid and narrow minded, and refusing to accept hard evidence because it doesn’t fit their preferred reality
There is a lot of loneliness and neediness out there; the incel is a real thing, not just invention of the tabloid press. And of course women are not to blame. Tinder is to blame (and other phenomena like that)
YouGov, the only pollster to correctly weigh geographical sub-samples:
London Lab 51% Con 20% LD 19% Grn 6% Ref 1%
Rest of South Con 35% Lab 32% LD 19% Grn 8% Ref 2%
Midlands and Wales Lab 41% Con 31% LD 11% Grn 7% PC 4% Ref 4%
North Lab 52% Con 27% LD 9% Grn 5% Ref 5%
Scotland SNP 49% Lab 21% Con 15% LD 10% Ref 3% Grn 2%
(YouGov/The Times; Sample Size: 1,687; Fieldwork: 6-7 July 2022)
Until the next Tory leader is elected not really relevant.
Wallace might even get an SCon bounce in Scotland being a former MSP, Scots Guard and the type of dull, serious type like May and Brown Scots like
Uncharacteristically brutal!
OT. Any Scots know a good hotel in Edinburgh or close by that might have three rooms mid August?
Try to book it NOW. Mid-festival is a tricky time for in or near Edinburgh. You're already late in booking now so get on with it.
I think I'm already too late. The two or three I've tried have gone. Is there anywhere about 15 miles away which might have somewhere?
Linlithgow is on the train line going directly into Edinburgh and is almost picturesque. Falkirk is a bit further out on the same line and is..not picturesque. Some availability at the Court Residence which gets 'exceptional' rating on booking.com.
I think Andrea might have been giving someone out, it's clearly missing middle..
Two different moments. Your picture is when she's leaving and she shouted "he who laughs last laughs loudest" or similar while wagging her finger. The other moment is on her way in when she clearly threw up her middle finger at the crowd.
Both moments were pretty undignified and faintly unhinged.
Comments
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Millions-Women-are-Waiting-Meet-ebook/dp/B0077RMQ1K/ref=sr_1_1?crid=38FRU3C5H17EM&keywords=millions+of+women+are+waiting+to+meet+you&qid=1657362302&sprefix=millions+of+women+are+waiting+to+meet+you,aps,57&sr=8-1
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/my-boris-johnson-story
Boris' great skill was in being able to construct an image of a shambling buffoon. Unfortunately he wasn't able to construct anything else.
Women aren't that picky. More or less any bloke can get a partner if they wash regularly, don't live with their parents, are kind and thoughtful and don't aim too far out of their league.
PS Not nearly so interested myself re the Kelpies as in the canal lift at the junction between the canals. Very fine piece of modern engineering.
Good looking people, particularly women, have not only the choice of their local town as they did in the past, but the whole world.
If all men make a significant improvement in their attractiveness to women, there would still be a similar number of men left behind.
What you are suggesting works on an individual basis but not on a societal basis. When people started lifelong relationships at work, universities, colleges, schools and down the pub, a wider range of qualities would have been seen as attractive than is the case with dating apps.
https://medium.com/sexography/celibacy-is-rising-in-young-men-but-not-in-young-women-773ea4b11fba
Celibacy rates for young women were 19% in 1989, 18% in 2018.
For men it was also 19% in 1989 but has increased to 28% in 2018.
The issue is real and should not be so casually dismissed.
But the Kelpies are something else. A folk tale made solid. A whole visitor centre built around it but freely accessible too. Available day or night. All very democratic.
Consider other public art and it's often more miss than hit (giant safety pin in Glasgow? Whuh?), it's amazing just how right the Kelpies are.
Like the one I posted last night...
God help us all.
The stats indicate I’m right and you’re wrong
“Why Young Adults, Especially Men, Are Having Sex Less Frequently”
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-adults-especially-men-having-sex-less-frequently
BTW someone on WiW R4 is tipping Badenoch. (Which would for me be in the category 'Too good to be true').
It's such a shame that Butterley went bust, after such a long history.
Incidentally, there's also a long canal tunnel a short distance away from there, which you can walk through along the towpath. And a shorter, modern, one built at the same time as the lift. If you're like me, fascinating stuff. For other PBers... less so.
I like seeing it best when I'm westbound, by the way. I don't know why.
One cabinet minister described him as a 'cosmic c***'
Gove aide ripped into Guto Harri, No 10 head of comms, branding 'snake' briefings 'f****** appalling'
The bad blood is everywhere
* Sunak compared to Theresa May
* Zahawi ridiculed for past 48 hours
* Truss described as 'mad' & female Boris Johnson
* Javid critics highlight 'embarrassing' NHS briefing at cabinet recently
* Ben Wallace questioned over Brexiteer credentials
Boris Johnson allies think he's not done politically
They suggest he will move to the US, earn £10m a year on speaking circuit & from books, and make a comeback
They compare him to Churchill, his hero, who became PM for second time in 1951. 'Don't write him off'
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1545718435006513152
Some saying that could end up with Rishi Sunak plus another in final two without their candidate. One saying that there are more MPs in centre and one nation wings. That said another source saying right consolidated quickly in 2019 when clear who candidate was 2/
https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1545716759524741120
No particular reason.
I mean, it's objectively great, but it felt a bit too much like a tourist ritual like the Eiffel Tower or the Little Mermaid: when you get there you're left feeling "oh, ok, I guess I've done that now"
Once when we were pushing our pram through a poor part of town, a lady approached us and offered to sell us baby formula. We declined, but I was amazed even at the idea of someone trying to peddle potentially dodgy formula.
http://www.andyscottsculptor.com/sculptures/heavy-horse
They say Tugendhat will be offered foreign sec role in Sunak govt
This is emphatically rejected by both teams Tugendhat and Sunak
https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1545719739196096512
https://www.staffordshirearts.co.uk/all-about-the-bull-and-centaur-sculptures-in-uttoxete/
Some of our clients have started to whisper.
They could come as soon as next week & will be well below inflation
Whatever he does there's likely to be widespread strikes
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-to-risk-fury-of-unions-with-below-inflation-pay-rises-3c8k6799q
The government could usefully tax online activities and cut business rates for pubs and clubs and it would probably help the situation.
It has the effect of making them look really good, when a little more digging says that the problem is more closely related to the chip shortage problem which affects Tesla less than the more traditional manufacturers.
I am just wary of this Incel explanation as it simultaneously robs men of agency over their own lives and makes women the villains simply for exercising choice over their own sex life. I do think that if men put in a bit more effort they would probably solve a lot of their problems. Sex isn't a right, it is a privilege that you have to work for.
OK..
And it is the single best argument for why they still want to go to University, not live with their parents and do an apprenticeship.
The opportunity to meet loads of potential new partners, not just the ones you knew at school. And not have every bugger knowing all your business.
There have been periods of my life where I yearned to have sex with a (sometimes specific, sometimes not) woman and wasn't getting any at all. But what happened as a result? I didn't attack anyone or whine bitterly about it. And I think I'm pretty normal in that. What makes some other men different?
I have my suspicion that the kind of men who cause trouble are the kind of men who would be causing trouble anyway. If they were getting laid, they'd find some other reason to attack and belittle people (mostly women, I guess). I strongly suspect lack of sex is just an excuse.
By Saturday that is revealed to be a lie.
VONC now. Get him out of No 10.
Naturally I had my top legal team Dooey Cheetham and Howe on standby but it turned out to be a damp squib (if you'll excuse the pun) Goodreads were being generous.
Sunak's private financial arrangements aren't that critical in terms of the non-dom status and all that, but what I think could hurt him is having to implement inevitable economic pain on people when he himself has so much wealth as to publically feature in the Sunday Times rich list. Man of the people he isn't.
I imagine it is a very depressing experience....then after all that rejection, trying to go out into the real world and pull. I can see how people end up in a dark place.
Am I too cynical in thinking she has been put to it by one of the serious candidates in order to help split the Right vote as described above? Reward is Home Sec or some such?
It is a structural problem with society, sure women are not the villains, but nor are men putting in less effort than those of 30 years ago. Far more go to the gym, are teetotal, get better grades, and go to university than was the case in my generation back then.
The other moment is on her way in when she clearly threw up her middle finger at the crowd.
Both moments were pretty undignified and faintly unhinged.
Teenage pregnancy rates have dropped quite a bit as a result, which is a positive outcome.
Of course I don't want it to be true, nothing is sadder than the thought of people not having sex.
It always was unsustainable to not announce pay offers to millions, many of whom
have already balloted for strikes, and facing double digit inflation, for the convenience of the Tory Party process.
I was assured it was all in hand, and wouldn't be an issue.
Also the one nation wing was decimated at the last election with so many of the hard remainers being forced out
Cheers. I know what I want for tea now.
This really is PB at its worst. Mulishly stupid and narrow minded, and refusing to accept hard evidence because it doesn’t fit their preferred reality
There is a lot of loneliness and neediness out there; the incel is a real thing, not just invention of the tabloid press. And of course women are not to blame. Tinder is to blame (and other phenomena like that)
Is it clearly her middle finger?
I think we need DRS