Here’s a pic that can definitely be guessed, if you have the right zoological knowledge and you check the species and the terrain. Taken in 2013 or so, hence the poor quality (apols)
Thats Bognor Regis. Definitely. They are Bognor seals. If it isnt then is it Ipswich?
Here’s a pic that can definitely be guessed, if you have the right zoological knowledge and you check the species and the terrain. Taken in 2013 or so, hence the poor quality (apols)
Are those blue footed Booby's, hence the Galapagos?
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Excellent forward planning - exactly what we want - not someone winging it
If you elect Sunak it will seriously divide the Tory party. Boris’ gang will bring him down. They have form.
Wishful thinking I am afraid
They are over
And for clarification I am not opposed to Wallace but I am not convinced he is going to stand
Things are moving very quickly - I don't think anyone can really afford to wait any longer before making their position known. Maybe over the weekend can be managed, the formal rules will be announced then, but MPs want to get to the final two quick, and need to know who is serious.
And who do they even sound out when half the people you sound out are sounding you out about their own run?
And quite a few MPs seem to have been sounding out Wallace to see if he’ll run. It’s now (certainly this weekend) or never.
The 1922 campaign don't announce the timetable until next week. The middle of next week is fine.
If he was ruling himself out he would likely have done so already. Wallace will spend the weekend creating his campaign team and announce by the middle of next week
Of course, KevinB has rather missed an enormous logic hole in his fantasy.
He's been assuring us that the oldest voters are sufficiently against gay marriage to be supportive of overturning it. And whilst over-65s are the still net in favour, they are the least accepting age group.
However, there's an issue with relying on the over-65s group providing your core support 30+ years from now. I wonder if he can spot it.
(And the possible loophole that maybe people become more anti-gay-marriage as they age has not been seen at all; if anything, they've been going the other way. And each echelon has been retaining their pro-gay-marriage bias as they age into the next age group. Understandable, really, the adage that people become more conservative as they age tends to be by viewing whatever was the default when they were younger as being how things should be in future - and thirty years from now, most people will have had gay marriage as being normal for a long long time)
I think it's far more simple than that: it's social proof and convention.
It was working against gay people and now it works for them.
That can change, and change quickly, as the Supreme Court decision has started to roll things back and reopen debate in the USA and here.
I see what you mean, but I think that's a poor framing. Social conventions were working against gays, but it is not working 'for' them now. What has happened is that many, if not most, people simply do not care. The conventions are not working 'for' them; the conventions just don't care.
That's great IMO, as it is equality.
But you are correct that that could change, and perhaps rapidly.
One key issue about changing it: to roll back gay marriage, you have to annul and undo hundreds of thousands of marriages. Including reversing the legal ramifications such as next of kin aspects and inheritances, including inheritances that have already happened.
Massive issue.
I haven't been invited to a gay wedding, but loads of people must have gone to one, and it's hard to see how my heterosexual marriage has been damaged by them. I can understand why a large minority were uncomfortable about the change, but it must only be a very small minority that would support reversing it now.
We have and it was a lovely occasion
dunno i often spot in gay marriage photos the grooms parents with forced smiles looking distinctly uncomfortable...as in social pressure tells us we should be happy but is this what we really want for our son....check gay wedding photos you will see what i mean
Congratulations on your psychic abilities to tell what people are thinking.
Besides, some people have awkward looking smiles anyway
The guy in that looks like Richard Tyndall...
It's not far off it seems.
Scott Meyer - I highly recommend his web series basic instructions, which he has recently started up again, very funny.
Here’s a pic that can definitely be guessed, if you have the right zoological knowledge and you check the species and the terrain. Taken in 2013 or so, hence the poor quality (apols)
To succeed a new leader has to gain control of an angry party. That means they either have to be supported by or dominate the right wing. Ideally both. That is the price of entry.
Sunak has a target on his back. Can he dominate the right? I doubt it.
He also needs a party desperate to move to the centre after years in opposition to win a general election again, which Blair and Cameron and arguably now Starmer benefit from and he wouldn't
My outsiders nose senses a Tory party that fancies a bit of dry, simple Thatcherite economics.
They want tax cuts and higher interest rates.
Thatcherism though won't do anything for the levelling up agenda.
Curaçao i think is the closest (but incorrect) guess so far.
The Colombian coast? So we would have seen it in Narcos etc?
This is a hard one
Getting closer.....but still wrong... funnily enough there used to be a luxury hotel (which i stayed at) there which is rumoured to have been owned by a columbian cartel as a washing machine.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Here’s a pic that can definitely be guessed, if you have the right zoological knowledge and you check the species and the terrain. Taken in 2013 or so, hence the poor quality (apols)
Of course, KevinB has rather missed an enormous logic hole in his fantasy.
He's been assuring us that the oldest voters are sufficiently against gay marriage to be supportive of overturning it. And whilst over-65s are the still net in favour, they are the least accepting age group.
However, there's an issue with relying on the over-65s group providing your core support 30+ years from now. I wonder if he can spot it.
(And the possible loophole that maybe people become more anti-gay-marriage as they age has not been seen at all; if anything, they've been going the other way. And each echelon has been retaining their pro-gay-marriage bias as they age into the next age group. Understandable, really, the adage that people become more conservative as they age tends to be by viewing whatever was the default when they were younger as being how things should be in future - and thirty years from now, most people will have had gay marriage as being normal for a long long time)
I think it's far more simple than that: it's social proof and convention.
It was working against gay people and now it works for them.
That can change, and change quickly, as the Supreme Court decision has started to roll things back and reopen debate in the USA and here.
I see what you mean, but I think that's a poor framing. Social conventions were working against gays, but it is not working 'for' them now. What has happened is that many, if not most, people simply do not care. The conventions are not working 'for' them; the conventions just don't care.
That's great IMO, as it is equality.
But you are correct that that could change, and perhaps rapidly.
One key issue about changing it: to roll back gay marriage, you have to annul and undo hundreds of thousands of marriages. Including reversing the legal ramifications such as next of kin aspects and inheritances, including inheritances that have already happened.
Massive issue.
I haven't been invited to a gay wedding, but loads of people must have gone to one, and it's hard to see how my heterosexual marriage has been damaged by them. I can understand why a large minority were uncomfortable about the change, but it must only be a very small minority that would support reversing it now.
We have and it was a lovely occasion
dunno i often spot in gay marriage photos the grooms parents with forced smiles looking distinctly uncomfortable...as in social pressure tells us we should be happy but is this what we really want for our son....check gay wedding photos you will see what i mean
You’re beginning to sound a tad… obsessive. That’s very, very occasionally a sign that someone’s repressing something.
thats the standard trope used when people have lost the argument re homosexuality and actually repression aint a bad thing civilizarion is built on it sometimes i feel like killing someone but i wont do it maybe i would fancy a gay orgy in my house but i wouldnt....repression you see it can be a good thing
I try to avoid doing personal on here, but you're provocative, so....
My daughter's gay. She's getting married shortly to a beautiful (in every sense of the word) woman. I, and the rest of the family, are immensely proud of her, and are really excited and looking forward to the wedding. As a parent, I've found it very rewarding to have a daughter with a different sexuality from my own, and have learnt a lot.
By contrast, your homophobia means you're missing out on the rich variety of human life. Though it may be that it's just gay men you've got a thing about?
Spot on. My daughter is also gay and with Uni now out of the way, she and her partner will be getting married at some point in the next few years. I am looking forward to it immensely and could not be prouder of them both.
It has never, in all the years that my daughter has been out, occurred to me to think of her relationship as anything other than completely normal. She is happy and in love and I am eternally grateful that she found something that sadly eludes so many people.
Here’s a pic that can definitely be guessed, if you have the right zoological knowledge and you check the species and the terrain. Taken in 2013 or so, hence the poor quality (apols)
Galapagos! Which one, I cannot guess...
Again: close, but no cigar
I can only guess it's one of the Chilean guano islands, but am stuck.
Curaçao i think is the closest (but incorrect) guess so far.
The Colombian coast? So we would have seen it in Narcos etc?
This is a hard one
Getting closer.....but still wrong... funnily enough there used to be a luxury hotel (which i stayed at) there which is rumoured to have been owned by a columbian cartel as a washing machine.
And this one to see if it can handle a higher res.
I guarantee no one on here will ever have been to this place and I'd be incredibly surprised if anyone can guess where it is.
Looks rather like volcano route, La Palma. .
I'm gobsmacked. Wow.
You are absolutely right. It is indeed La Ruta de los Volcanos on La Palma.
I was the only person walking it that glorious day (or rather, that I saw). Pretty remote at times and with smouldering volcanoes, which as we now know are not dormant.
I had my worst professional experience there.
Gosh. Able to elaborate?
@Leon is right about my pic. If you looked closely, especially to the right, you could see the volcanic terrain. Also being above the cloud line is a classic Canary thing - hence the observatories on Tenerife and, most famously, La Palma itself.
I was doing a Renault launch for Spain and we were shooting for four days. At exactly 5 o'clock each evening we went up there to try to get the pack shot and everyday at 5 o'clock a thick mist came down.
On the final day we went up and again the mist came down again. The crew were saying they had planes to catch and hotels to pack up and at about 7 I called it off and we packed up and went down the mountain and as we got to the bottom the mist cleared and it was an amazing sunset. But it was too late to set up again
It was a great object lesson. Their travel arrangements aren't my concern. My job was to get the shot. You have to be selfish and it took me a long time to get over it.
I don’t understand why anyone is bothering arguing with KevinB/MickTrain.
It’s the whole MO - try and cause dissent over things that we disagree with but not to the level that is something that’s such an issue in Russia.
He can poke about sexual freedoms, gay marriage, general politics and then eventually some news agency in Russia is reporting that a “major” (yes I know) political discussion forum in the UK where politicians are known to post is full of people who reject the western liberal view.
Give Kevin/Gary/Mick a few posts to embarrass themselves then shut them down as it’s not being done for no reason.
And Kevin is seriously in the closet.
And don't call him a homophobe. Because that's woke bigotry
Would it make sense for a Conservative candidate for PM to decide to skip this contest? (Assuming they are young enough.)
I am no seer, but it seems to me that the successful candidate is likely to have a short and miserable couple of years in Number 10, lose a general election, and then be replaced as leader.
But let me know if this strategy is implausible. Or if none of the potential candidates would think like that.
Dunno. The quality of the field is poor. And you'll have been PM. And summat good may turn up. Sitting it out. Well. Summat nasty may turn up.
Here’s a pic that can definitely be guessed, if you have the right zoological knowledge and you check the species and the terrain. Taken in 2013 or so, hence the poor quality (apols)
Galapagos! Which one, I cannot guess...
Again: close, but no cigar
I can only guess it's one of the Chilean guano islands, but am stuck.
Yes, if you haven’t heard of them, it is maybe too hard, I’ll reveal all in a minute
Curaçao i think is the closest (but incorrect) guess so far.
The Colombian coast? So we would have seen it in Narcos etc?
This is a hard one
Getting closer.....but still wrong... funnily enough there used to be a luxury hotel (which i stayed at) there which is rumoured to have been owned by a columbian cartel as a washing machine.
Panama!
Bingo......to be precise Contadora part of the pearl islands which have been used for some seasons of the uk and us survivor show, bear Grylls programmes and i think most recently a Richard Hammond tv show.
Interesting discussions today but time for me to tuck up 2 of our grandchildren who are on a sleepover and are awake far too late (Mind you what goes on in Grandma's home stays in Grandma's home)
I would just say some of the comments by one poster on here (you know who you are) have been deeply disturbing, prejudiced and downright insulting and hurtful to a couple of our posters
Of course, KevinB has rather missed an enormous logic hole in his fantasy.
He's been assuring us that the oldest voters are sufficiently against gay marriage to be supportive of overturning it. And whilst over-65s are the still net in favour, they are the least accepting age group.
However, there's an issue with relying on the over-65s group providing your core support 30+ years from now. I wonder if he can spot it.
(And the possible loophole that maybe people become more anti-gay-marriage as they age has not been seen at all; if anything, they've been going the other way. And each echelon has been retaining their pro-gay-marriage bias as they age into the next age group. Understandable, really, the adage that people become more conservative as they age tends to be by viewing whatever was the default when they were younger as being how things should be in future - and thirty years from now, most people will have had gay marriage as being normal for a long long time)
I think it's far more simple than that: it's social proof and convention.
It was working against gay people and now it works for them.
That can change, and change quickly, as the Supreme Court decision has started to roll things back and reopen debate in the USA and here.
I see what you mean, but I think that's a poor framing. Social conventions were working against gays, but it is not working 'for' them now. What has happened is that many, if not most, people simply do not care. The conventions are not working 'for' them; the conventions just don't care.
That's great IMO, as it is equality.
But you are correct that that could change, and perhaps rapidly.
One key issue about changing it: to roll back gay marriage, you have to annul and undo hundreds of thousands of marriages. Including reversing the legal ramifications such as next of kin aspects and inheritances, including inheritances that have already happened.
Massive issue.
I haven't been invited to a gay wedding, but loads of people must have gone to one, and it's hard to see how my heterosexual marriage has been damaged by them. I can understand why a large minority were uncomfortable about the change, but it must only be a very small minority that would support reversing it now.
We have and it was a lovely occasion
dunno i often spot in gay marriage photos the grooms parents with forced smiles looking distinctly uncomfortable...as in social pressure tells us we should be happy but is this what we really want for our son....check gay wedding photos you will see what i mean
You’re beginning to sound a tad… obsessive. That’s very, very occasionally a sign that someone’s repressing something.
thats the standard trope used when people have lost the argument re homosexuality and actually repression aint a bad thing civilizarion is built on it sometimes i feel like killing someone but i wont do it maybe i would fancy a gay orgy in my house but i wouldnt....repression you see it can be a good thing
I try to avoid doing personal on here, but you're provocative, so....
My daughter's gay. She's getting married shortly to a beautiful (in every sense of the word) woman. I, and the rest of the family, are immensely proud of her, and are really excited and looking forward to the wedding. As a parent, I've found it very rewarding to have a daughter with a different sexuality from my own, and have learnt a lot.
By contrast, your homophobia means you're missing out on the rich variety of human life. Though it may be that it's just gay men you've got a thing about?
We were lucky enough to at PB, to get upgraded to the Level IV Troll - the one that’s clearly actually studied in the UK at some point, has followed politics here for a while, and knows just enough about a few divisive subjects to draw out the sort of personal comments that he thinks can be used to set people against each other. He’s a big upgrade on the Level III Troll we had last month though, he was as useless as a Russian invasion of Kiev.
Oh well, another one bites the dust. We’ll have to see if we can get a Level V troll now, one that can go to 500 comments before mentioning gay marriage, abortion, or the war in Ukraine.
Curaçao i think is the closest (but incorrect) guess so far.
The Colombian coast? So we would have seen it in Narcos etc?
This is a hard one
Getting closer.....but still wrong... funnily enough there used to be a luxury hotel (which i stayed at) there which is rumoured to have been owned by a columbian cartel as a washing machine.
Panama!
Bingo......to be precise Contadora part of the pearl islands which have been used for survivor, bear Grylls programms and i think most recently a Richard Hammond tv show.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
He had the opportunity to bring former critics back into the Shadow cabinet after the 2017 election. He didn't and kept duffers like Burgon in instead.
Who he was happy to support mere days ago. And if he was not, he is claiming Boris was a terrible PM because he would be admitting Boris could not control his own Chancellor.
Which do you think it is - is he lying about thinking Sunak is terrible, or is he admitting Boris was terrible?
Rees Mogg criticised Sunak before. In some respects Sunak, a slick liberal ex banker, has more in common with Emmanuel Macron than Margaret Thatcher
Thatcher paid a lot for PR and presentation. Not sure what else "slick" is meant to mean here, but if it's not inherently male-gendered, she'd count.
Curaçao i think is the closest (but incorrect) guess so far.
The Colombian coast? So we would have seen it in Narcos etc?
This is a hard one
Getting closer.....but still wrong... funnily enough there used to be a luxury hotel (which i stayed at) there which is rumoured to have been owned by a columbian cartel as a washing machine.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a bit poor that quite a lot of Tory MPs have already declared who they're backing.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd be saying nothing until I'd listened to what the candidates' leadership pitch is, what if anything they're planning to change from the current regime, policies for the future and so on.
Ok the islands in my photo are the Islas Ballestas, actually known as the “mini Galapagos” - just off the south Peruvian coast, and fervent with wildlife
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a bit poor that quite a lot of Tory MPs have already declared who they're backing.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd be saying nothing until I'd listened to what the candidates' leadership pitch is, what if anything they're planning to change from the current regime, policies for the future and so on.
TBF, they probably mostly have a reasonable idea on those points. They know these people, which most of us on here don't.
Also, if somebody you wanted to stand was hesitating, it's a way of giving them an incentive to go for it.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
He had quislings like Sir Keir Starmer eagerly csmpaigning and serving under him too
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Yes, but in the end. Look at his first shadow cabinet Thornberry, Eagle, Watson, Ashworth, De Piero. He did at least try.
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a bit poor that quite a lot of Tory MPs have already declared who they're backing.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd be saying nothing until I'd listened to what the candidates' leadership pitch is, what if anything they're planning to change from the current regime, policies for the future and so on.
That is mostly reasonable, but in fairness to the MPs it may not be entirely necessary, for a couple of reasons.
1) They may already know most of the candidates fairly well, to the extent they can guess or been tipped off as to their policy plans and the like.
2) They might well have been totally happy with the policy direction of the government, but the character of Boris Johnson could no longer be denied or accepted. Accordingly, they don't mind too much about policy - they can constrain a PM with rebellions - and will pick based on which one they think is the most able to get a grip on things and not embarrass them further.
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a bit poor that quite a lot of Tory MPs have already declared who they're backing.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd be saying nothing until I'd listened to what the candidates' leadership pitch is, what if anything they're planning to change from the current regime, policies for the future and so on.
TBF, they probably mostly have a reasonable idea on those points. They know these people, which most of us on here don't.
Also, if somebody you wanted to stand was hesitating, it's a way of giving them an incentive to go for it.
Bear in mind how mad the members were at Labour MPs for never giving Corbyn a chance. The key detail the members ignored was that the MPs all knew Corbyn, at least well enough to judge his leadership qualities.
Of course, KevinB has rather missed an enormous logic hole in his fantasy.
He's been assuring us that the oldest voters are sufficiently against gay marriage to be supportive of overturning it. And whilst over-65s are the still net in favour, they are the least accepting age group.
However, there's an issue with relying on the over-65s group providing your core support 30+ years from now. I wonder if he can spot it.
(And the possible loophole that maybe people become more anti-gay-marriage as they age has not been seen at all; if anything, they've been going the other way. And each echelon has been retaining their pro-gay-marriage bias as they age into the next age group. Understandable, really, the adage that people become more conservative as they age tends to be by viewing whatever was the default when they were younger as being how things should be in future - and thirty years from now, most people will have had gay marriage as being normal for a long long time)
I think it's far more simple than that: it's social proof and convention.
It was working against gay people and now it works for them.
That can change, and change quickly, as the Supreme Court decision has started to roll things back and reopen debate in the USA and here.
I see what you mean, but I think that's a poor framing. Social conventions were working against gays, but it is not working 'for' them now. What has happened is that many, if not most, people simply do not care. The conventions are not working 'for' them; the conventions just don't care.
That's great IMO, as it is equality.
But you are correct that that could change, and perhaps rapidly.
One key issue about changing it: to roll back gay marriage, you have to annul and undo hundreds of thousands of marriages. Including reversing the legal ramifications such as next of kin aspects and inheritances, including inheritances that have already happened.
Massive issue.
I haven't been invited to a gay wedding, but loads of people must have gone to one, and it's hard to see how my heterosexual marriage has been damaged by them. I can understand why a large minority were uncomfortable about the change, but it must only be a very small minority that would support reversing it now.
We have and it was a lovely occasion
dunno i often spot in gay marriage photos the grooms parents with forced smiles looking distinctly uncomfortable...as in social pressure tells us we should be happy but is this what we really want for our son....check gay wedding photos you will see what i mean
You’re beginning to sound a tad… obsessive. That’s very, very occasionally a sign that someone’s repressing something.
thats the standard trope used when people have lost the argument re homosexuality and actually repression aint a bad thing civilizarion is built on it sometimes i feel like killing someone but i wont do it maybe i would fancy a gay orgy in my house but i wouldnt....repression you see it can be a good thing
I try to avoid doing personal on here, but you're provocative, so....
My daughter's gay. She's getting married shortly to a beautiful (in every sense of the word) woman. I, and the rest of the family, are immensely proud of her, and are really excited and looking forward to the wedding. As a parent, I've found it very rewarding to have a daughter with a different sexuality from my own, and have learnt a lot.
By contrast, your homophobia means you're missing out on the rich variety of human life. Though it may be that it's just gay men you've got a thing about?
We were lucky enough to at PB, to get upgraded to the Level IV Troll - the one that’s clearly actually studied in the UK at some point, has followed politics here for a while, and knows just enough about a few divisive subjects to draw out the sort of personal comments that he thinks can be used to set people against each other. He’s a big upgrade on the Level III Troll we had last month though, he was as useless as a Russian invasion of Kiev.
Oh well, another one bites the dust. We’ll have to see if we can get a Level V troll now, one that can go to 500 comments before mentioning gay marriage, abortion, or the war in Ukraine.
I don’t understand why anyone is bothering arguing with KevinB/MickTrain.
It’s the whole MO - try and cause dissent over things that we disagree with but not to the level that is something that’s such an issue in Russia.
He can poke about sexual freedoms, gay marriage, general politics and then eventually some news agency in Russia is reporting that a “major” (yes I know) political discussion forum in the UK where politicians are known to post is full of people who reject the western liberal view.
Give Kevin/Gary/Mick a few posts to embarrass themselves then shut them down as it’s not being done for no reason.
And Kevin is seriously in the closet.
You're right, and I already regret rising to the bait.
Fuck him. Thanks for sharing about your daughter, it was lovely to read. Sounds like it’ll be a great day!
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Yes, but in the end. Look at his first shadow cabinet Thornberry, Eagle, Watson, Ashworth, De Piero. He did at least try.
And he ended up with notorious right wing secret Tory Keir Starmer still there, talk about a broad tent.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Yes, but in the end. Look at his first shadow cabinet Thornberry, Eagle, Watson, Ashworth, De Piero. He did at least try.
Tom Watson! Fuck me, I'd forgotten about him. How long ago was he an MP? Twenty, thirty years ago?
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
To an extent, he had to do so. A lot of the parliamentary party preferred to stay on the backbenches rather than join his shadow cabinet.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
To an extent, he had to do so. A lot of the parliamentary party preferred to stay on the backbenches rather than join his shadow cabinet.
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Yes, but in the end. Look at his first shadow cabinet Thornberry, Eagle, Watson, Ashworth, De Piero. He did at least try.
Thornberry has had quite the idealigical journey. She was a Brownite, a Millibandite, a Corbynite and now a Starmerite. Any port in a storm Thornberry.
I'd have loved it if in Rishi's launch video there was an obvious tell, like "And that's why, in this year of [different audio] 2022 [original audio] I am standing to be leader"
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Yes, but in the end. Look at his first shadow cabinet Thornberry, Eagle, Watson, Ashworth, De Piero. He did at least try.
Tom Watson! Fuck me, I'd forgotten about him. How long ago was he an MP? Twenty, thirty years ago?
Well done to @foxy and @carnyx for identifying birds like the booby in my rubbish photo
PB is replete with expertise
Booby experts. Nice.
It was the discussion of DD and his DD t-shirts that clinched the identification. Naff when it happened: I hate to think what would happen today if he tried it on for the Party Leadership today. I do hope he does, please, please ...
Tugendhat and Wallace the final 2 is my long shot projection, Sunak to be knocked out in the final round of MPs votes a la Portillo 2001.
Boris will tell most of his supporters to back Wallace but in the final round will lend a few of them to Tugendhat to knock out Sunak and ensure a solid Wallace win in the membership vote
My family WhatsApp, which is quite rightwing (but with greens and lefties too) has gone from accepting the departure of Boris to OMFG look at these idiots (the potential replacements) and Can we have Boris back
What astounds me is the appalling "quality" of the candidates. I know that Boris is accused of surrounding himself with low quality wannabes and has-beens but is this lot really all that is available?
There is no way that any of this shower will lead the Tories to victory at the next election.
You may be surprised
I mean when weve bern treated to Labour leaderships featuring magic grandpa versus Owen Smith, that time they put Diane Abbott up, the Miliband family comedy troup and not forgetting Rebecca Long Bailey they cant be 'too' bad
Labour's candidates were appalling too and for much the same reason. Corbyn surrounded himself with those who were no danger to him, just like Johnson. Anyone with talent was purged if they threatened The Leader.
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
Really? He did not surround himself with Corbynites? The bulk of his own party tried to get rid of him. In that, at least, they did better than the "Conservative" Party
Yes, but in the end. Look at his first shadow cabinet Thornberry, Eagle, Watson, Ashworth, De Piero. He did at least try.
Tom Watson! Fuck me, I'd forgotten about him. How long ago was he an MP? Twenty, thirty years ago?
He thinks he left politics at the right time and seems to be having a renaissance.
I don't really care what Tom's up to, but thank you anyhow. It was more a case of THREE LONG YEARS feeling like three decades and mention of his name really suddenly crystallised that because I don't think I've thought about him once since he left parliament.
Of course, KevinB has rather missed an enormous logic hole in his fantasy.
He's been assuring us that the oldest voters are sufficiently against gay marriage to be supportive of overturning it. And whilst over-65s are the still net in favour, they are the least accepting age group.
However, there's an issue with relying on the over-65s group providing your core support 30+ years from now. I wonder if he can spot it.
(And the possible loophole that maybe people become more anti-gay-marriage as they age has not been seen at all; if anything, they've been going the other way. And each echelon has been retaining their pro-gay-marriage bias as they age into the next age group. Understandable, really, the adage that people become more conservative as they age tends to be by viewing whatever was the default when they were younger as being how things should be in future - and thirty years from now, most people will have had gay marriage as being normal for a long long time)
I think it's far more simple than that: it's social proof and convention.
It was working against gay people and now it works for them.
That can change, and change quickly, as the Supreme Court decision has started to roll things back and reopen debate in the USA and here.
I see what you mean, but I think that's a poor framing. Social conventions were working against gays, but it is not working 'for' them now. What has happened is that many, if not most, people simply do not care. The conventions are not working 'for' them; the conventions just don't care.
That's great IMO, as it is equality.
But you are correct that that could change, and perhaps rapidly.
One key issue about changing it: to roll back gay marriage, you have to annul and undo hundreds of thousands of marriages. Including reversing the legal ramifications such as next of kin aspects and inheritances, including inheritances that have already happened.
Massive issue.
I haven't been invited to a gay wedding, but loads of people must have gone to one, and it's hard to see how my heterosexual marriage has been damaged by them. I can understand why a large minority were uncomfortable about the change, but it must only be a very small minority that would support reversing it now.
We have and it was a lovely occasion
dunno i often spot in gay marriage photos the grooms parents with forced smiles looking distinctly uncomfortable...as in social pressure tells us we should be happy but is this what we really want for our son....check gay wedding photos you will see what i mean
Congratulations on your psychic abilities to tell what people are thinking.
Besides, some people have awkward looking smiles anyway
I don’t understand why anyone is bothering arguing with KevinB/MickTrain.
It’s the whole MO - try and cause dissent over things that we disagree with but not to the level that is something that’s such an issue in Russia.
He can poke about sexual freedoms, gay marriage, general politics and then eventually some news agency in Russia is reporting that a “major” (yes I know) political discussion forum in the UK where politicians are known to post is full of people who reject the western liberal view.
Give Kevin/Gary/Mick a few posts to embarrass themselves then shut them down as it’s not being done for no reason.
And Kevin is seriously in the closet.
You're right, and I already regret rising to the bait.
Fuck him. Thanks for sharing about your daughter, it was lovely to read. Sounds like it’ll be a great day!
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a bit poor that quite a lot of Tory MPs have already declared who they're backing.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd be saying nothing until I'd listened to what the candidates' leadership pitch is, what if anything they're planning to change from the current regime, policies for the future and so on.
If you leave it too late to declare your support you are leaving it to other MPs to decide for you by building momentum for their preferred candidate. So you have to work out early which candidate you favour rather than wait for them to convince you.
I am fairly certain during a general election if the Tory leader is a person of colour somebody fairly high up in Labour/The SNP will say something tasteless and tactless and that'll be a vote winner for the Tories.
One of my highlights in my life was getting told by middle class white people that I really wasn't an ethnic minority because I was privately educated, went to an elite university, had a professional job, so had never experienced racism.
Steve Baker has dropped out and is supporting Suella Braverman. Looks like the ERG are going to vote en bloc.
Jesus Steve, what you playing at?!
Baker would have been a far better prospect than Braverman. He seems at least vaguely normal and able to speak without resorting to cliches and soundbites.
I am fairly certain during a general election if the Tory leader is a person of colour somebody fairly high up in Labour/The SNP will say something tasteless and tactless and that'll be a vote winner for the Tories.
One of my highlights in my life was getting told by middle class white people that I really wasn't an ethnic minority because I was privately educated, went to an elite university, had a professional job, so had never experienced racism.
It would seem an inevitability.
But then again, have you let Jeremy Corbyn unlock your talent yet?
I am fairly certain during a general election if the Tory leader is a person of colour somebody fairly high up in Labour/The SNP will say something tasteless and tactless and that'll be a vote winner for the Tories.
One of my highlights in my life was getting told by middle class white people that I really wasn't an ethnic minority because I was privately educated, went to an elite university, had a professional job, so had never experienced racism.
Steve Baker has dropped out and is supporting Suella Braverman. Looks like the ERG are going to vote en bloc.
Jesus Steve, what you playing at?!
Baker would have been a far better prospect than Braverman. He seems at least vaguely normal and able to speak without resorting to cliches and soundbites.
Steve Baker is pretty much the only Brexiter I have any time for at all. He seems truthful and plain-speaking, but Suella is just a dimwitted stooge.
I am fairly certain during a general election if the Tory leader is a person of colour somebody fairly high up in Labour/The SNP will say something tasteless and tactless and that'll be a vote winner for the Tories.
One of my highlights in my life was getting told by middle class white people that I really wasn't an ethnic minority because I was privately educated, went to an elite university, had a professional job, so had never experienced racism.
It would seem an inevitability.
But then again, have you let Jeremy Corbyn unlock your talent yet?
Steve Baker has dropped out and is supporting Suella Braverman. Looks like the ERG are going to vote en bloc.
Jesus Steve, what you playing at?!
Baker would have been a far better prospect than Braverman. He seems at least vaguely normal and able to speak without resorting to cliches and soundbites.
Steve Baker is pretty much the only Brexiter I have any time for at all. He seems truthful and plain-speaking, but Suella is just a dimwitted stooge.
Steve Baker has dropped out and is supporting Suella Braverman. Looks like the ERG are going to vote en bloc.
Jesus Steve, what you playing at?!
Baker would have been a far better prospect than Braverman. He seems at least vaguely normal and able to speak without resorting to cliches and soundbites.
Comments
If it isnt then is it Ipswich?
FO Wallace
CoE Redwood
HSec Mourdant
2 seconds Googling will get it, but resist!
Corbyn and Johnson were opposite cheeks of the same ar*e and the pair of them have polluted the politics of this country.
If he was ruling himself out he would likely have done so already. Wallace will spend the weekend creating his campaign team and announce by the middle of next week
The Colombian coast? So we would have seen it in Narcos etc?
This is a hard one
They never learn, do they?
Scott Meyer - I highly recommend his web series basic instructions, which he has recently started up again, very funny.
Thatcherism though won't do anything for the levelling up agenda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Cabinet_of_Jeremy_Corbyn
It has never, in all the years that my daughter has been out, occurred to me to think of her relationship as anything other than completely normal. She is happy and in love and I am eternally grateful that she found something that sadly eludes so many people.
On the final day we went up and again the mist came down again. The crew were saying they had planes to catch and hotels to pack up and at about 7 I called it off and we packed up and went down the mountain and as we got to the bottom the mist cleared and it was an amazing sunset. But it was too late to set up again
It was a great object lesson. Their travel arrangements aren't my concern. My job was to get the shot. You have to be selfish and it took me a long time to get over it.
And you'll have been PM.
And summat good may turn up.
Sitting it out. Well. Summat nasty may turn up.
I would just say some of the comments by one poster on here (you know who you are) have been deeply disturbing, prejudiced and downright insulting and hurtful to a couple of our posters
This forum is better than this
Good night folks
*hugs himself with pride*
Good one
He didn't and kept duffers like Burgon in instead.
Glad I got my kicks in in timely fashion.
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's a bit poor that quite a lot of Tory MPs have already declared who they're backing.
If I were a Tory MP, I'd be saying nothing until I'd listened to what the candidates' leadership pitch is, what if anything they're planning to change from the current regime, policies for the future and so on.
I recommend a visit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballestas_Islands
Also, if somebody you wanted to stand was hesitating, it's a way of giving them an incentive to go for it.
PB is replete with expertise
1) They may already know most of the candidates fairly well, to the extent they can guess or been tipped off as to their policy plans and the like.
2) They might well have been totally happy with the policy direction of the government, but the character of Boris Johnson could no longer be denied or accepted. Accordingly, they don't mind too much about policy - they can constrain a PM with rebellions - and will pick based on which one they think is the most able to get a grip on things and not embarrass them further.
Any port in a storm Thornberry.
https://www.politico.eu/newsletter/westminster-insider/new-westminster-insider-podcast-labours-tom-watson-on-political-plots-weight-loss-and-living-with-adhd/
He thinks he left politics at the right time and seems to be having a renaissance.
He has to be in the final two.
Boris will tell most of his supporters to back Wallace but in the final round will lend a few of them to Tugendhat to knock out Sunak and ensure a solid Wallace win in the membership vote
Plus he's practically French, what's not to love?
It was more a case of THREE LONG YEARS feeling like three decades and mention of his name really suddenly crystallised that because I don't think I've thought about him once since he left parliament.
https://youtu.be/QfpPTM_i7yw
"Boris Johnson did not resign as Prime Minister", Andrew Marr declares. "'No apologies. Nothing on lying. Nothing on sex pests.’"
I am fairly certain during a general election if the Tory leader is a person of colour somebody fairly high up in Labour/The SNP will say something tasteless and tactless and that'll be a vote winner for the Tories.
One of my highlights in my life was getting told by middle class white people that I really wasn't an ethnic minority because I was privately educated, went to an elite university, had a professional job, so had never experienced racism.
One can dream.
Suella surely can’t win (or can she!) so presumably this is possibly about creating a bloc that can veto Tudgendhat or maybe even Rishi.
But then again, have you let Jeremy Corbyn unlock your talent yet?
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/869571607060070401?lang=en-GB
Answer is NSFW-ish and hilarious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman#:~:text=No true Scotsman, or appeal,by excluding the counterexample improperly.
No, me neither.
Tom Tugend hat.
Put that into Google translate.