Here's an unpleasant thought: Years ago I read that Stalin liked to have men about him on whom he had something. (I'm sorry I don't recall the source.)
Could Boris Johnson have preferred Chris Pincher in a whip position for a similar reason?
FPT: Remain-inclined politicians should make the most of the next few weeks by talking about Boris Brexit, Brexit Boris, Boris Johnson's disastrous Brexit etc as often and repeatedly as possible. Aim to cause some collateral damage.
It worked - very well, in both directions - with "Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq" or "Clegg's AV referendum", in both cases associating an unpopular politician with a cause.
Doesn’t that give the next PM (assuming it is a Tory) to do a reset. “Boris’s Brexit didn’t work because Boris… we are going to fix it”
Only for five minutes.
Brexit is like a mouldering corpse inside the walls of 10 Rillington Place. Eventually the (Lulu Lytle?) wallpaper will have to come down and the full horror dealt with directly.
Until then we have to persist with dissembling and odd, untraceable smells.
I'd look behind the expensive curtains, and the exorbitantly priced settee.
On topic I know nothing but I don't understand who are the 32 Tory MPs who just voted to keep Boris despite scandals #1 to #65281 but are going to demand the rules be written to get rid of him for scandal #65282.
The Tory membership would obviously vote against any Tory leadership contender who tried to soften Brexit and align more closely to the EU.
Via @yougov: 54% of Britons say Brexit has gone badly since end of transition Includes 3 in 10 Leave voters (31%) A majority of Britons say that Brexit is not done (54%), including half Leave voters (49%) Highest proportion since Dec 2019 who say Gov handling Brexit badly (61%)
Who cares what the public think until 2024/5? The public elected the Tories by a landslide in 2019 and it is therefore only the views of Tory MPs and Tory members that count in terms of who our PM is until the next general election.
Though even on your figures the vast majority of Leave voters still back Brexit and think it has not gone badly and the vast majority of Tory members were Leavers
"the vast majority of Tory members were Leavers". It is very sad that the intellectual capacity of what was once such a great party; the party of Sir Keith Joseph, could have been taken over by a bunch of imbecilic Orcs.
Bacteria resistant to vanco have been around for ages. And trying to get a Brexit spin in despite the Uk (with Denmark and Germany) being at the forefront of regulations
Five or six years ago, there were probably three rough groupings on here wrt Boris:
*) The anti-Boris, anti-Conservative group. "He's a bore, a fool, he was a terrible mayor, Conservatives stink, etc" *) The pro-Boris group: "He won us Brexit! And he was a successful London Mayor! He doesn't stink like May!" *) The Boris is an entertaining fool but should ne nowhere near power group.
I was firmly in the latter group.
Move on all these years, and HYUFD appears to be the only occupant of the middle group; the rest of them have moved into the former group.
I'm still in the middle group; my own views on Boris have not changed much at all. Everything that has been revealed about him in the last year was evident before he even stopped being MoL. Why is anyone surprised? He's not as bad as many like to make out, but by God, he isn't fit to be PM.
But he never was.
And I laugh at those who supported him because of Brexit and who are now the rats leaving the sinking ship.
What is 'fit to be PM?'
It is someone who commands the support of the party with a majority in parliament primarily and ideally the country too.
Boris was elected by both in 2019, the Tory party elected him by a landslide then the public overall elected him by a landslide in the general election of December 2019.
Bank of England warns UK economic outlook has ‘deteriorated markedly’
The exercise will include “deep simultaneous recession in the UK and global economies, real income shocks, large falls in asset prices and higher global interest rates”.
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Five or six years ago, there were probably three rough groupings on here wrt Boris:
*) The anti-Boris, anti-Conservative group. "He's a bore, a fool, he was a terrible mayor, Conservatives stink, etc" *) The pro-Boris group: "He won us Brexit! And he was a successful London Mayor! He doesn't stink like May!" *) The Boris is an entertaining fool but should ne nowhere near power group.
I was firmly in the latter group.
Move on all these years, and HYUFD appears to be the only occupant of the middle group; the rest of them have moved into the former group.
I'm still in the middle group; my own views on Boris have not changed much at all. Everything that has been revealed about him in the last year was evident before he even stopped being MoL. Why is anyone surprised? He's not as bad as many like to make out, but by God, he isn't fit to be PM.
But he never was.
And I laugh at those who supported him because of Brexit and who are now the rats leaving the sinking ship.
What is 'fit to be PM?'
It is someone who commands the support of the party with a majority in parliament primarily and ideally the country too.
Boris was elected by both in 2019, the Tory party elected him by a landslide then the public overall elected him by a landslide in the general election of December 2019.
Five or six years ago, there were probably three rough groupings on here wrt Boris:
*) The anti-Boris, anti-Conservative group. "He's a bore, a fool, he was a terrible mayor, Conservatives stink, etc" *) The pro-Boris group: "He won us Brexit! And he was a successful London Mayor! He doesn't stink like May!" *) The Boris is an entertaining fool but should ne nowhere near power group.
I was firmly in the latter group.
Move on all these years, and HYUFD appears to be the only occupant of the middle group; the rest of them have moved into the former group.
I'm still in the middle group; my own views on Boris have not changed much at all. Everything that has been revealed about him in the last year was evident before he even stopped being MoL. Why is anyone surprised? He's not as bad as many like to make out, but by God, he isn't fit to be PM.
But he never was.
And I laugh at those who supported him because of Brexit and who are now the rats leaving the sinking ship.
What is 'fit to be PM?'
It is someone who commands the support of the party with a majority in parliament primarily and ideally the country too.
Boris was elected by both in 2019, the Tory party elected him by a landslide then the public overall elected him by a landslide in the general election of December 2019.
Against another gentleman unfit to be PM. Which is not exclusive with “Johnson is unfit to be PM”.
What polio’s UK presence means for global health - A form of polio derived from the vaccine is probably circulating in the United Kingdom, highlighting the ongoing need for polio vaccination worldwide.
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and nobody listened; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Here's an unpleasant thought: Years ago I read that Stalin liked to have men about him on whom he had something. (I'm sorry I don't recall the source.)
Could Boris Johnson have preferred Chris Pincher in a whip position for a similar reason?
Pincher's backstory was an open secret known by everyone, except it is claimed, the Prime Minister. It smacks more of cock-up than conspiracy.
On topic I know nothing but I don't understand who are the 32 Tory MPs who just voted to keep Boris despite scandals #1 to #65281 but are going to demand the rules be written to get rid of him for scandal #65282.
The rules being rewritten doesn't need those 32 MPs, the 22 exec is entirely a backbench function. The 1922 committee will have the rules rewritten if they need it. 32 Gov't lackeys DO need to be persuaded to change their mind WHEN it comes to another confidence vote though.
The Tory membership would obviously vote against any Tory leadership contender who tried to soften Brexit and align more closely to the EU.
Via @yougov: 54% of Britons say Brexit has gone badly since end of transition Includes 3 in 10 Leave voters (31%) A majority of Britons say that Brexit is not done (54%), including half Leave voters (49%) Highest proportion since Dec 2019 who say Gov handling Brexit badly (61%)
Who cares what the public think until 2024/5? The public elected the Tories by a landslide in 2019 and it is therefore only the views of Tory MPs and Tory members that count in terms of who our PM is until the next general election.
Though even on your figures the vast majority of Leave voters still back Brexit and think it has not gone badly and the vast majority of Tory members were Leavers
"the vast majority of Tory members were Leavers". It is very sad that the intellectual capacity of what was once such a great party; the party of Sir Keith Joseph, could have been taken over by a bunch of imbecilic Orcs.
Sir Keith Joseph would likely also have been a Leaver, he was increasingly Eurosceptic in his final years
Afternoon all. Skimmed through the BBC live blog between loading kit. The government have sent an utterly useless batsman in today haven’t they?
Only one available. I thought he spun an incredible (in both senses) tale about as well as any could have tbf. It's not the batsman, it's the wicket and the state of the match.
Five or six years ago, there were probably three rough groupings on here wrt Boris:
*) The anti-Boris, anti-Conservative group. "He's a bore, a fool, he was a terrible mayor, Conservatives stink, etc" *) The pro-Boris group: "He won us Brexit! And he was a successful London Mayor! He doesn't stink like May!" *) The Boris is an entertaining fool but should ne nowhere near power group.
I was firmly in the latter group.
Move on all these years, and HYUFD appears to be the only occupant of the middle group; the rest of them have moved into the former group.
I'm still in the middle group; my own views on Boris have not changed much at all. Everything that has been revealed about him in the last year was evident before he even stopped being MoL. Why is anyone surprised? He's not as bad as many like to make out, but by God, he isn't fit to be PM.
But he never was.
And I laugh at those who supported him because of Brexit and who are now the rats leaving the sinking ship.
What is 'fit to be PM?'
It is someone who commands the support of the party with a majority in parliament primarily and ideally the country too.
Boris was elected by both in 2019, the Tory party elected him by a landslide then the public overall elected him by a landslide in the general election of December 2019.
Against Jeremy Corbyn. It was an endorsement of Dim rather than Dimmer
Here's an unpleasant thought: Years ago I read that Stalin liked to have men about him on whom he had something. (I'm sorry I don't recall the source.)
Could Boris Johnson have preferred Chris Pincher in a whip position for a similar reason?
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
A Cabinet resignation now, and the floodgates open.
Maybe after Starmer rips Boris's memory apart at PMQ's?
The cabinet are not going to do anything because the only alternative for most of them is obscurity and potential seat loss.
Its up to the '22 and the back benchers.
Not true for all though. There's a good half dozen who would be kept on. I reckon the economic position is so dreadful that no one wants it now. They want Boris, not the Conservative Party in general, to be the scapegoat. Every day the two become more difficult to separate though.
FPT: Remain-inclined politicians should make the most of the next few weeks by talking about Boris Brexit, Brexit Boris, Boris Johnson's disastrous Brexit etc as often and repeatedly as possible. Aim to cause some collateral damage.
It worked - very well, in both directions - with "Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq" or "Clegg's AV referendum", in both cases associating an unpopular politician with a cause.
Doesn’t that give the next PM (assuming it is a Tory) to do a reset. “Boris’s Brexit didn’t work because Boris… we are going to fix it”
The Tory membership would obviously vote against any Tory leadership contender who tried to soften Brexit and align more closely to the EU.
If Boris goes it is the Tory membership who get the final say on who our next PM is
Spectacularly missing the point - it was about positioning on the Brexit debate not the actual settlement
The Tory membership would obviously vote against any Tory leadership contender who tried to soften Brexit and align more closely to the EU.
Via @yougov: 54% of Britons say Brexit has gone badly since end of transition Includes 3 in 10 Leave voters (31%) A majority of Britons say that Brexit is not done (54%), including half Leave voters (49%) Highest proportion since Dec 2019 who say Gov handling Brexit badly (61%)
Who cares what the public think until 2024/5? The public elected the Tories by a landslide in 2019 and it is therefore only the views of Tory MPs and Tory members that count in terms of who our PM is until the next general election.
Though even on your figures the vast majority of Leave voters still back Brexit and think it has not gone badly and the vast majority of Tory members were Leavers
"the vast majority of Tory members were Leavers". It is very sad that the intellectual capacity of what was once such a great party; the party of Sir Keith Joseph, could have been taken over by a bunch of imbecilic Orcs.
Sir Keith Joseph would likely also have been a Leaver, he was increasingly Eurosceptic in his final years
Total bollox. That is like saying William Hague would be a leaver. He wasn't and isn't. Many people (myself included) have held misgivings about the EU, in the same way as I have misgivings about the trans Atlantic alliance. It doesn't mean we would support self harming stupidity, which was what Brexit was and continues to be. It is and was a clowns charter, heartily endorsed by the biggest clown anyone has ever been stupid enough to elect to high office. You are an apologist to that clown.
He knows the cheat code for this stuff. Brazen it out for 72 hours, send fucking goons like Shapps out to eat shit and then survive until next week. Brexit! Vaccines! Ukraine!
Seems a bit ridiculous, has a policeforce met with the CPS over ANY other potential fines being issued throughout the pandemic. If they issue a fine and Starmer feels it's wrong, he can challenge it in court. The hostage to fortune he created is simply none of their concern but looks to be causing expense (Noone's time is free) to the police. If they feel a PCN ought to be issued, they should issue one, Starmer can challenge it if he likes.
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Boris gets no pass "because of Ukraine". Every Conservative PM since Churchill and every one of Boris's successors would have taken exactly the same position.
FPT: Remain-inclined politicians should make the most of the next few weeks by talking about Boris Brexit, Brexit Boris, Boris Johnson's disastrous Brexit etc as often and repeatedly as possible. Aim to cause some collateral damage.
It worked - very well, in both directions - with "Blair's illegal invasion of Iraq" or "Clegg's AV referendum", in both cases associating an unpopular politician with a cause.
Doesn’t that give the next PM (assuming it is a Tory) to do a reset. “Boris’s Brexit didn’t work because Boris… we are going to fix it”
The Tory membership would obviously vote against any Tory leadership contender who tried to soften Brexit and align more closely to the EU.
If Boris goes it is the Tory membership who get the final say on who our next PM is
Spectacularly missing the point - it was about positioning on the Brexit debate not the actual settlement
And these things aren’t “obvious”.
The current Tory membership opposing any dilution of Brexit is as obvious as anything can be
Afternoon all. Skimmed through the BBC live blog between loading kit. The government have sent an utterly useless batsman in today haven’t they?
Only one available. I thought he spun an incredible (in both senses) tale about as well as any could have tbf. It's not the batsman, it's the wicket and the state of the match.
I thought barristers were supposed not to act for a client they know for sure is lying ?
Seems a bit ridiculous, has a policeforce met with the CPS over ANY other potential fines being issued throughout the pandemic. If they issue a fine and Starmer feels it's wrong, he can challenge it in court. The hostage to fortune he created is simply none of their concern but looks to be causing expense (Noone's time is free) to the police. If they feel a PCN ought to be issued, they should issue one, Starmer can challenge it if he likes.
Seems a bit ridiculous, has a policeforce met with the CPS over ANY other potential fines being issued throughout the pandemic. If they issue a fine and Starmer feels it's wrong, he can challenge it in court. The hostage to fortune he created is simply none of their concern but looks to be causing expense (Noone's time is free) to the police. If they feel a PCN ought to be issued, they should issue one, Starmer can challenge it if he likes.
Starmer is in a slightly trickier position if the CPS sanction the PCN, given his CV.....
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
On current polls the Tories would still poll higher than 1997 and the biggest swing against them would be in Remain areas of the Home counties to the LDs, costing the likes of Hunt their seats.
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Boris gets no pass "because of Ukraine". Every Conservative PM since Churchill and every one of Boris's successors would have taken exactly the same position.
With the possible exception of Ted Heath.
Yes but I can imagine Wallace saying to himself that he serves as Defence Sec not for Boris, but for “HMG”, “the forces”, “Queen and country” etc.
Ironically if Wallace did resign that truly would end things. Other resignations might be survivable.
He knows the cheat code for this stuff. Brazen it out for 72 hours, send fucking goons like Shapps out to eat shit and then survive until next week. Brexit! Vaccines! Ukraine!
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Anyone resigning does get a slight boost for any leadership aspiration, but it only really works if there are multiple resignations. It'd be interesting if there was a next cabinet exit market on bf or smarkets.
The left field option: Starmer and Raynor are both fined and both resign. Lab leadership contest begins. 'Big Dog' calls snap General Election.
The risk: a spectacular gamble which blows up in the Tories' face as the opposition parties move to ensure only one anti-Tory candidate in each seat. Tories are reduced to a rump/oblivion.
The rewards: secures another 5 years before the economy hits total turdage, preserves own premiership ('Big Dog' is a winner once more), Labour et al not ready for campaign, spikes the Sturge's indyref2 plan B.
It's likely such a move would transgress several conventions, but such trifles do not bother 'Big Dog'. Place bets now...
"Embarrassing". In one word a normally supportive MP sums up Boris Johnson’s handling of the Chris Pincher allegations.Their loyalty is being tested, they say, by the way Downing Street’s position has shifted repeatedly and the whole affair is “eroding trust” in politics.
No 10, the MP told me, is a “walking talking advert” for rebels to get elected to the backbench 1922 committee in an attempt to orchestrate a leadership challenge. They said the PM had a 50/50 chance of surviving until the end of the year.Many backbenchers are openly critical of Mr Johnson now but more still are wavering, their loyalty is being tested and they’re asking themselves how much they are willing to defend. BBC
Here's an unpleasant thought: Years ago I read that Stalin liked to have men about him on whom he had something. (I'm sorry I don't recall the source.)
Could Boris Johnson have preferred Chris Pincher in a whip position for a similar reason?
Pincher's backstory was an open secret known by everyone, except it is claimed, the Prime Minister. It smacks more of cock-up than conspiracy.
I thought it was pinching not frotting he was accused of…
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
On current polls the Tories would still poll higher than 1997 and the biggest swing against them would be in Remain areas of the Home counties to the LDs, costing the likes of Hunt their seats.
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
Once again I award you The Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf Award (aka The Comical Ali Cup) for most ridiculous bullshit in the face of overwhelming adversity. Some might call it resilience, some, stupidity, but the world is unlikely to see anything more ridiculous outside Spin Central in No10 Downing Street. I commend you on winning this award once again!
Afternoon all. Skimmed through the BBC live blog between loading kit. The government have sent an utterly useless batsman in today haven’t they?
Only one available. I thought he spun an incredible (in both senses) tale about as well as any could have tbf. It's not the batsman, it's the wicket and the state of the match.
I thought barristers were supposed not to act for a client they know for sure is lying ?
They can’t lie for a client who tells them one thing but instructs them to say another. Barristers are not in a position to make that judgment. Otherwise a lot of people would get no representation because it was a “sure thing”. The farcical explanations Huntley’s brief had to put forward are the best example of this.
"Embarrassing". In one word a normally supportive MP sums up Boris Johnson’s handling of the Chris Pincher allegations.Their loyalty is being tested, they say, by the way Downing Street’s position has shifted repeatedly and the whole affair is “eroding trust” in politics.
No 10, the MP told me, is a “walking talking advert” for rebels to get elected to the backbench 1922 committee in an attempt to orchestrate a leadership challenge. They said the PM had a 50/50 chance of surviving until the end of the year.Many backbenchers are openly critical of Mr Johnson now but more still are wavering, their loyalty is being tested and they’re asking themselves how much they are willing to defend. BBC
That view is fair enough, I guess, but quit whining about the abuse you are getting from your constituents at the same time.
I've finally finished the hardest jigsaw I can recall doing: a 1,000 piece set depicting a blueprint of Turing's Zeta Function Machine. Only white lines and a little text on a blue background.
It was a birthday present from Mrs J. I think she must hate me...
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
On current polls the Tories would still poll higher than 1997 and the biggest swing against them would be in Remain areas of the Home counties to the LDs, costing the likes of Hunt their seats.
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
1997 was a huge defeat for the Conservatives. Doing better would still be a loss, but go on posting this cr*p because no one but you believes it.
The next defeat deserves to be even bigger 1997. TBH, given Boris, the ERG, the spineless cabinet and the collection of sex-pest members that have been all over the news, the current "Conservative" party deserves to disappear forever.
Five or six years ago, there were probably three rough groupings on here wrt Boris:
*) The anti-Boris, anti-Conservative group. "He's a bore, a fool, he was a terrible mayor, Conservatives stink, etc" *) The pro-Boris group: "He won us Brexit! And he was a successful London Mayor! He doesn't stink like May!" *) The Boris is an entertaining fool but should ne nowhere near power group.
I was firmly in the latter group.
Move on all these years, and HYUFD appears to be the only occupant of the middle group; the rest of them have moved into the former group.
I'm still in the middle group; my own views on Boris have not changed much at all. Everything that has been revealed about him in the last year was evident before he even stopped being MoL. Why is anyone surprised? He's not as bad as many like to make out, but by God, he isn't fit to be PM.
But he never was.
And I laugh at those who supported him because of Brexit and who are now the rats leaving the sinking ship.
What is 'fit to be PM?'
It is someone who commands the support of the party with a majority in parliament primarily and ideally the country too.
Boris was elected by both in 2019, the Tory party elected him by a landslide then the public overall elected him by a landslide in the general election of December 2019.
It is more than that. We have standards in public office. Well, I say "we", clearly you do not.
The man you support is not fit to be PM because he lies endlessly. And that is just one example. The ministerial code demands his resignation, so the code is binned. The ethics advisors point out that this is totally wrong, so they go as well.
Which only leaves certain people supporting him as being fit for PM. The stupid. The immoral. The desperate.
The current situation is game theory, isn’t it? We have lots of mathematicians on here (not me, tho) so perhaps we can figure out what happens next.
Boris is obviously never going to go on his own, just like he has never actually left any wife.
The Cabinet are looking to their jobs. Some won’t survive any Boris ouster. Others don’t want to be the first to move. Yet more do not want to take the job since the next few years are forecast to be awful.
The MPs knows that Boris is destroying the Party and indeed debilitating the country, but can’t agree on any potential alternative, and wouldn’t trust the broader party to pick the right candidate anyway.
Here's an unpleasant thought: Years ago I read that Stalin liked to have men about him on whom he had something. (I'm sorry I don't recall the source.)
Could Boris Johnson have preferred Chris Pincher in a whip position for a similar reason?
Pincher's backstory was an open secret known by everyone, except it is claimed, the Prime Minister. It smacks more of cock-up than conspiracy.
Did you intend to have all those Carry-On style innuendos ( i counted at least three) or were they just sub-conscious?
A Cabinet resignation now, and the floodgates open.
Maybe after Starmer rips Boris's memory apart at PMQ's?
None of them have the balls. Not even Penny
Maybe there really is a first-mover bonus this time. Getting the "thank fuck for that" vote?
Funny how they all remember Heseltine but forget Mrs Thatcher who did wield the knife and seize Ted Heath's metaphorical crown.
Only after Ted Heath had lost the October 1974 general election and refused to resign. Thatcher never knifed Heath when he was PM as Heseltine knifed her when she was still PM
As we wait for Boris to do the honourable thing....
the UAP/UFO story rumbles on, as mystifying as ever
"In April 2014, four naval aviators narrowly escaped disaster. Just as they entered highly controlled airspace for a training exercise, their two F/A-18F fighter jets nearly collided with an unidentified flying object (UFO). To the frustration of dozens of their fellow aviators, such a near-catastrophe was inevitable.
"For months before and after the incident, aircrews flying in “exclusive use” training areas off the U.S. East Coast frequently observed unknown objects exhibiting highly anomalous flight characteristics. Despite the collision hazard posed by the UFOs, aviators lacked a formal mechanism to report the mysterious objects."
Given the Labour Party outpolls Johnson, does he really want to try to take on a cypher who is not that well known and can make the entire election about kicking Boris?
Even before the latest scandal, the PM's ratings were absolutely dire. Disapproval is headed back to the peak of partygate revelations at the turn of the year and three quarters of the public think Boris Johnson is untrustworthy. https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1544319131679424512/photo/1
NEW: No10 aides who briefed ministers - like Will Quince and Therese Coffey - with untruths about what the PM knew about Chris Pincher “should be held accountable” Tory former chief whip Mark Harper tells mehttps://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1544318913336451080/video/1
Same here in Corfu. Well probably. Local thermometer not that reliable.
If several of the recent model runs are to be believed (including today's latest GFS run) we'll be hitting 39 or 40C in the UK sometime in the next 2 weeks, and mid 40s in France.
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
On current polls the Tories would still poll higher than 1997 and the biggest swing against them would be in Remain areas of the Home counties to the LDs, costing the likes of Hunt their seats.
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
1997 was a huge defeat for the Conservatives. Doing better would still be a loss, but go on posting this cr*p because no one but you believes it.
The next defeat deserves to be even bigger 1997. TBH, given Boris, the ERG, the spineless cabinet and the collection of sex-pest members that have been all over the news, the current "Conservative" party deserves to disappear forever.
Yes but you are a leftwinger so that is as pointless a statement as a rightwinger saying Labour should disappear forever in 1983, 2010 or 2019
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Boris gets no pass "because of Ukraine". Every Conservative PM since Churchill and every one of Boris's successors would have taken exactly the same position.
With the possible exception of Ted Heath.
Yes but I can imagine Wallace saying to himself that he serves as Defence Sec not for Boris, but for “HMG”, “the forces”, “Queen and country” etc.
Ironically if Wallace did resign that truly would end things. Other resignations might be survivable.
Yep. It isn't just about people resigning from Cabinet. We already had one of those. If someone like Dorries or one of the nameless morons quits nobody will care that much. "Shapps has gone!!!" - who cares...
So it needs to be a Wallace or a Sunak or someone of that level.
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
On current polls the Tories would still poll higher than 1997 and the biggest swing against them would be in Remain areas of the Home counties to the LDs, costing the likes of Hunt their seats.
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
1997 was a huge defeat for the Conservatives. Doing better would still be a loss, but go on posting this cr*p because no one but you believes it.
The next defeat deserves to be even bigger 1997. TBH, given Boris, the ERG, the spineless cabinet and the collection of sex-pest members that have been all over the news, the current "Conservative" party deserves to disappear forever.
It may deserve that, but in 1995 the labour LEAD over con was bigger than the current labour voteshare, 43 vs 41
Let's remind ourselves of 25th June - the last occasion on which the PM told the unvarnished truth:
"If you are saying you want me to undergo some sort of psychological transformation, your listeners know that is not going to happen.”
In fairness to Johnson, he's taken the opportunity to prove the point very quickly.
The fundamental flaw is he always says and does what is most convenient to him in the precise moment, even if it is very likely to unravel disastrously within days - he cannot take short term pain to save himself and others from long term agony. So it was very embarrassing that Pincher had been given a senior job despite a finding against him, but there could have been some kind of defence (e.g. "he accepted the findings, apologised to those involved, they accepted the apology, and he undertook not to behave in that way in future - clearly, I was too trusting and shouldn't have believed him etc"). But that embarrassment is nothing like the PM being caught brazenly lying yet again.
Government just can't continue like this. If Downing Street staff and cabinet colleagues are routinely lied to (as they plainly are) then the PM makes fools and liars of them as well, and the work of Government (at the top levels) can't sensibly go on.
Johnson has said himself in a rare flash of honesty that it isn't changing, so they need to change him. He won't see the Tory Conference in my view.
Even before the latest scandal, the PM's ratings were absolutely dire. Disapproval is headed back to the peak of partygate revelations at the turn of the year and three quarters of the public think Boris Johnson is untrustworthy. https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1544319131679424512/photo/1
The one quarter who think Boris “trustworthy” are the UK equivalent of those Americans who confirm to pollsters that they have been decapitated.
The left field option: Starmer and Raynor are both fined and both resign. Lab leadership contest begins. 'Big Dog' calls snap General Election.
The risk: a spectacular gamble which blows up in the Tories' face as the opposition parties move to ensure only one anti-Tory candidate in each seat. Tories are reduced to a rump/oblivion.
The rewards: secures another 5 years before the economy hits total turdage, preserves own premiership ('Big Dog' is a winner once more), Labour et al not ready for campaign, spikes the Sturge's indyref2 plan B.
It's likely such a move would transgress several conventions, but such trifles do not bother 'Big Dog'. Place bets now...
May called a snap election when she was ahead in the polls and that went badly. Calling a snap election when you are behind in the polls is madness.
I feel it would be such a terrible shame if Boris was forced out. It would mean that the "Conservatives" might not get forced below 100 seats at the next election.
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
On current polls the Tories would still poll higher than 1997 and the biggest swing against them would be in Remain areas of the Home counties to the LDs, costing the likes of Hunt their seats.
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
1997 was a huge defeat for the Conservatives. Doing better would still be a loss, but go on posting this cr*p because no one but you believes it.
The next defeat deserves to be even bigger 1997. TBH, given Boris, the ERG, the spineless cabinet and the collection of sex-pest members that have been all over the news, the current "Conservative" party deserves to disappear forever.
Yes but you are a leftwinger so that is as pointless a statement as a rightwinger saying Labour should disappear forever in 1983, 2010 or 2019
If you think that’s pointless, you should take a read over your last ten thousand posts.
As we wait for Boris to do the honourable thing....
the UAP/UFO story rumbles on, as mystifying as ever
"In April 2014, four naval aviators narrowly escaped disaster. Just as they entered highly controlled airspace for a training exercise, their two F/A-18F fighter jets nearly collided with an unidentified flying object (UFO). To the frustration of dozens of their fellow aviators, such a near-catastrophe was inevitable.
"For months before and after the incident, aircrews flying in “exclusive use” training areas off the U.S. East Coast frequently observed unknown objects exhibiting highly anomalous flight characteristics. Despite the collision hazard posed by the UFOs, aviators lacked a formal mechanism to report the mysterious objects."
Not sure if you’re much for video games, but there’s a game that was recently demoed on Steam’s NextFest where you play the leader of a shadowy NGO that has to respond when aliens suddenly crash down on Earth. Lots of taking over governments, battling rival shadowy groups, building space fleets and eventually taking on the aliens. Might be your jam. It’s called Terra Invicta.
The current situation is game theory, isn’t it? We have lots of mathematicians on here (not me, tho) so perhaps we can figure out what happens next.
Boris is obviously never going to go on his own, just like he has never actually left any wife.
The Cabinet are looking to their jobs. Some won’t survive any Boris ouster. Others don’t want to be the first to move. Yet more do not want to take the job since the next few years are forecast to be awful.
The MPs knows that Boris is destroying the Party and indeed debilitating the country, but can’t agree on any potential alternative, and wouldn’t trust the broader party to pick the right candidate anyway.
22 committee activists need to get him out and be kingmakers for the succession
As we wait for Boris to do the honourable thing....
the UAP/UFO story rumbles on, as mystifying as ever
"In April 2014, four naval aviators narrowly escaped disaster. Just as they entered highly controlled airspace for a training exercise, their two F/A-18F fighter jets nearly collided with an unidentified flying object (UFO). To the frustration of dozens of their fellow aviators, such a near-catastrophe was inevitable.
"For months before and after the incident, aircrews flying in “exclusive use” training areas off the U.S. East Coast frequently observed unknown objects exhibiting highly anomalous flight characteristics. Despite the collision hazard posed by the UFOs, aviators lacked a formal mechanism to report the mysterious objects."
You believe in UFOs and you believe in Brexit. In Ireland there are "little people" that if you catch one they will give you a wish. In Cornwall they have similar folk. Also I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
What is the form for 37C? Barricade yourself inside with gin and tonic supplies and the VPN?
Basically, yes, tho in my case it's a chilled glass of Montengrin white wine (quite nice), the aircon on full and I'm catching up on the latest UFOlogy
Same here in Corfu. Well probably. Local thermometer not that reliable.
If several of the recent model runs are to be believed (including today's latest GFS run) we'll be hitting 39 or 40C in the UK sometime in the next 2 weeks, and mid 40s in France.
Might be the last time we actually seek out this kind of hot beach weather actually. The appeal is definitely waning. Booked it as we were coming through the first Omicron wave, and the idea was more appealing than the reality.
16-5 record for Djokovic so far this year. He was banned from Oz, and obviously Rafa is imperious on clay but this is a very average year by his standards so far.
If I was betting on a resignation, I’d tip Patel or Coffey.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
Boris gets no pass "because of Ukraine". Every Conservative PM since Churchill and every one of Boris's successors would have taken exactly the same position.
With the possible exception of Ted Heath.
Yes but I can imagine Wallace saying to himself that he serves as Defence Sec not for Boris, but for “HMG”, “the forces”, “Queen and country” etc.
Ironically if Wallace did resign that truly would end things. Other resignations might be survivable.
Yep. It isn't just about people resigning from Cabinet. We already had one of those. If someone like Dorries or one of the nameless morons quits nobody will care that much. "Shapps has gone!!!" - who cares...
So it needs to be a Wallace or a Sunak or someone of that level.
I think Sunak would be survivable. Sunak has very few supporters on the back benches as far as I can tell.
It’s the genius of Boris that he has stuffed his circus so full of clowns.
Bank of England warns UK economic outlook has ‘deteriorated markedly’
The exercise will include “deep simultaneous recession in the UK and global economies, real income shocks, large falls in asset prices and higher global interest rates”.
The first bit is a forecast, the second isn't (it's a stress test scenario).
The odd thing about the economy is I still see job vacancy adverts about quite frequently...doesn't feel like a real recession right now...
Forgive me if I make a mistake with this, but with inflation at ~9% and nominal growth at ~8%, then you have real, inflation-adjusted GDP declining, but this is based on comparing two relatively large, relatively uncertain numbers. If the calculation of the GDP-deflator is too high by a bit then you could have fairly robust growth.
Whereas, if you have inflation at ~1% and nominal growth at 0%, it's harder to make the argument that inaccuracies in the data mean the economy is really still growing okay, because nominal growth is obviously still close to zero.
Furthermore, inflation is estimated to be so high, and wages are lagging so far behind, that the economy can afford to employ more people even if it shrinks a little, because the real value of wages is declining more quickly than the economy is shrinking.
Also, one reason we expected and had a degree of inflation post the pandemic is that some people had accumulated savings and so there was pent-up demand in the face of reduced supply capacity. To an extent these savings will support demand for a period, even as real wages fall, until at some point they don't. There's a bit more potential than normal for an overshoot, a bit like in the looney tunes cartoons where the character doesn't realise they've run off the edge of the cliff until they look down. I reckon we're probably way over the edge of the cliff at this point, but we haven't looked down yet.
As we wait for Boris to do the honourable thing....
the UAP/UFO story rumbles on, as mystifying as ever
"In April 2014, four naval aviators narrowly escaped disaster. Just as they entered highly controlled airspace for a training exercise, their two F/A-18F fighter jets nearly collided with an unidentified flying object (UFO). To the frustration of dozens of their fellow aviators, such a near-catastrophe was inevitable.
"For months before and after the incident, aircrews flying in “exclusive use” training areas off the U.S. East Coast frequently observed unknown objects exhibiting highly anomalous flight characteristics. Despite the collision hazard posed by the UFOs, aviators lacked a formal mechanism to report the mysterious objects."
You believe in UFOs and you believe in Brexit. In Ireland there are "little people" that if you catch one they will give you a wish. In Cornwall they have similar folk. Also I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
Comments
Could Boris Johnson have preferred Chris Pincher in a whip position for a similar reason?
Bacteria resistant to vanco have been around for ages. And trying to get a Brexit spin in despite the Uk (with Denmark and Germany) being at the forefront of regulations
It is someone who commands the support of the party with a majority in parliament primarily and ideally the country too.
Boris was elected by both in 2019, the Tory party elected him by a landslide then the public overall elected him by a landslide in the general election of December 2019.
We still have plenty.vacancies unfilled.
The cabinet are not going to do anything because the only alternative for most of them is obscurity and potential seat loss.
Its up to the '22 and the back benchers.
The others are generally so “in blood steeped” by the Boris project that there is not much point.
Gove probably thinks he has done it once already and it’s someone else’s turn; Wallace will tell himself the Ukraine effort is more important; Raab, Dorries and scores of others are gone the moment Boris goes.
- A form of polio derived from the vaccine is probably circulating in the United Kingdom, highlighting the ongoing need for polio vaccination worldwide.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01802-z
32 Gov't lackeys DO need to be persuaded to change their mind WHEN it comes to another confidence vote though.
https://twitter.com/Tony_Diver/status/1544312109189763073
I thought he spun an incredible (in both senses) tale about as well as any could have tbf.
It's not the batsman, it's the wicket and the state of the match.
Whereas if Starmer is fined and resigns then Boris will be under heavy pressure to do the same having already been fined
I was depending on Boris wiping out the Blue-Kippers and the ERG mob so that proper sensible Conservatives could recapture the party.
I reckon the economic position is so dreadful that no one wants it now.
They want Boris, not the Conservative Party in general, to be the scapegoat.
Every day the two become more difficult to separate though.
And these things aren’t “obvious”.
With the possible exception of Ted Heath.
Starmer: Drone, drone, drone, blah, drone, drone....
Boris: Phew! Well!! Um. Yes! Err.. Crikey!!! Absolutely definitely posi... pos.. umm. ahh. Yes!!!!
In the Leave parts of the North and Midlands there would be a much lower anti Tory swing.
So the Tory parliamentary party would end up even more rightwing and pro Brexit than it is now
Ironically if Wallace did resign that truly would end things. Other resignations might be survivable.
https://twitter.com/WeirdMedieval/status/1544307966819565569
Would be amazing if both parties lost their leaders in the next few days!!
The risk: a spectacular gamble which blows up in the Tories' face as the opposition parties move to ensure only one anti-Tory candidate in each seat. Tories are reduced to a rump/oblivion.
The rewards: secures another 5 years before the economy hits total turdage, preserves own premiership ('Big Dog' is a winner once more), Labour et al not ready for campaign, spikes the Sturge's indyref2 plan B.
It's likely such a move would transgress several conventions, but such trifles do not bother 'Big Dog'. Place bets now...
This is outstanding tennis
"Embarrassing". In one word a normally supportive MP sums up Boris Johnson’s handling of the Chris Pincher allegations.Their loyalty is being tested, they say, by the way Downing Street’s position has shifted repeatedly and the whole affair is “eroding trust” in politics.
No 10, the MP told me, is a “walking talking advert” for rebels to get elected to the backbench 1922 committee in an attempt to orchestrate a leadership challenge. They said the PM had a 50/50 chance of surviving until the end of the year.Many backbenchers are openly critical of Mr Johnson now but more still are wavering, their loyalty is being tested and they’re asking themselves how much they are willing to defend. BBC
Ouch
What do you expect?
I've finally finished the hardest jigsaw I can recall doing: a 1,000 piece set depicting a blueprint of Turing's Zeta Function Machine. Only white lines and a little text on a blue background.
It was a birthday present from Mrs J. I think she must hate me...
The next defeat deserves to be even bigger 1997. TBH, given Boris, the ERG, the spineless cabinet and the collection of sex-pest members that have been all over the news, the current "Conservative" party deserves to disappear forever.
The man you support is not fit to be PM because he lies endlessly. And that is just one example. The ministerial code demands his resignation, so the code is binned. The ethics advisors point out that this is totally wrong, so they go as well.
Which only leaves certain people supporting him as being fit for PM. The stupid. The immoral. The desperate.
We have lots of mathematicians on here (not me, tho) so perhaps we can figure out what happens next.
Boris is obviously never going to go on his own, just like he has never actually left any wife.
The Cabinet are looking to their jobs. Some won’t survive any Boris ouster. Others don’t want to be the first to move. Yet more do not want to take the job since the next few years are forecast to be awful.
The MPs knows that Boris is destroying the Party and indeed debilitating the country, but can’t agree on any potential alternative, and wouldn’t trust the broader party to pick the right candidate anyway.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1544318378155851777
the UAP/UFO story rumbles on, as mystifying as ever
"In April 2014, four naval aviators narrowly escaped disaster. Just as they entered highly controlled airspace for a training exercise, their two F/A-18F fighter jets nearly collided with an unidentified flying object (UFO). To the frustration of dozens of their fellow aviators, such a near-catastrophe was inevitable.
"For months before and after the incident, aircrews flying in “exclusive use” training areas off the U.S. East Coast frequently observed unknown objects exhibiting highly anomalous flight characteristics. Despite the collision hazard posed by the UFOs, aviators lacked a formal mechanism to report the mysterious objects."
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/3545072-stunned-by-ufos-exasperated-fighter-pilots-get-little-help-from-pentagon/
Barricade yourself inside with gin and tonic supplies and the VPN?
So it needs to be a Wallace or a Sunak or someone of that level.
"If you are saying you want me to undergo some sort of psychological transformation, your listeners know that is not going to happen.”
In fairness to Johnson, he's taken the opportunity to prove the point very quickly.
The fundamental flaw is he always says and does what is most convenient to him in the precise moment, even if it is very likely to unravel disastrously within days - he cannot take short term pain to save himself and others from long term agony. So it was very embarrassing that Pincher had been given a senior job despite a finding against him, but there could have been some kind of defence (e.g. "he accepted the findings, apologised to those involved, they accepted the apology, and he undertook not to behave in that way in future - clearly, I was too trusting and shouldn't have believed him etc"). But that embarrassment is nothing like the PM being caught brazenly lying yet again.
Government just can't continue like this. If Downing Street staff and cabinet colleagues are routinely lied to (as they plainly are) then the PM makes fools and liars of them as well, and the work of Government (at the top levels) can't sensibly go on.
Johnson has said himself in a rare flash of honesty that it isn't changing, so they need to change him. He won't see the Tory Conference in my view.
You believe in UFOs and you believe in Brexit. In Ireland there are "little people" that if you catch one they will give you a wish. In Cornwall they have similar folk. Also I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
Sunak has very few supporters on the back benches as far as I can tell.
It’s the genius of Boris that he has stuffed his circus so full of clowns.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1544321022429626368
Whereas, if you have inflation at ~1% and nominal growth at 0%, it's harder to make the argument that inaccuracies in the data mean the economy is really still growing okay, because nominal growth is obviously still close to zero.
Furthermore, inflation is estimated to be so high, and wages are lagging so far behind, that the economy can afford to employ more people even if it shrinks a little, because the real value of wages is declining more quickly than the economy is shrinking.
Also, one reason we expected and had a degree of inflation post the pandemic is that some people had accumulated savings and so there was pent-up demand in the face of reduced supply capacity. To an extent these savings will support demand for a period, even as real wages fall, until at some point they don't. There's a bit more potential than normal for an overshoot, a bit like in the looney tunes cartoons where the character doesn't realise they've run off the edge of the cliff until they look down. I reckon we're probably way over the edge of the cliff at this point, but we haven't looked down yet.
You, Sir, are the leaking rectum of a louse