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The Policeman and The Lawyer – politicalbetting.com

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  • 43% has been reached which is Labour’s ceiling.

    Now they just need to hold onto the voters. Hung Parliament is all but guaranteed on those numbers
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Scott_xP said:

    Team Boris’ attention is turning to shoring up support for when a possible confidence vote is held, per one source. Mood in No 10 is low, with special advisers joking that it is time for yet another “reset”

    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-in-danger-as-mps-conclude-hell-cost-them-votes/

    Have they run out of deceased moggies?

    Surely, there's something left in the bottom of the fetid barrel?

    Free pork scratchings for anyone who orders a pint with a crown emblem on it?

    All new cars to have to incorporate a small union jack flag on the roof?

    Thieves to be branded?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    They'll always have been Boris skeptic. For sure.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    Scott_xP said:

    Team Boris’ attention is turning to shoring up support for when a possible confidence vote is held, per one source. Mood in No 10 is low, with special advisers joking that it is time for yet another “reset”

    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-in-danger-as-mps-conclude-hell-cost-them-votes/

    Have they run out of deceased moggies?

    Surely, there's something left in the bottom of the fetid barrel?

    Free pork scratchings for anyone who orders a pint with a crown emblem on it?

    All new cars to have to incorporate a small union jack flag on the roof?

    Thieves to be branded?

    I was going to say the same. Presumably the reset is to throw out more red meat to its aged voting base
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    It worth remembering it isn't very long ago that the Mail was the most critical paper of every decision the government made over COVID, sometimes in the same day they would claim the government was being too strict and not strict enough.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    43% has been reached which is Labour’s ceiling.

    Now they just need to hold onto the voters. Hung Parliament is all but guaranteed on those numbers

    Johnson going could change everything, to state the obvious.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    It worth remembering it isn't very long ago that the Mail was the most critical paper of every decision the government made over COVID, sometimes in the same day they would claim the government was being too strict and not strict enough.
    A weird mash up of Piers Corbyn and Piers Morgan
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,251
    rcs1000 said:

    @JonathanBarnes - you have been banned.

    You know why you have been banned.

    Please acknowledge one of the *many* emails I've sent you. Or - should your email be fake - then please email me at rcs1000 at gmail.

    Please do not just create another account.

    If you do, I will be forced to take more serious action.

    Oooh! I love it when you talk tough
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    It worth remembering it isn't very long ago that the Mail was the most critical paper of every decision the government made over COVID, sometimes in the same day they would claim the government was being too strict and not strict enough.
    Wasn't that under a different editor?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    It worth remembering it isn't very long ago that the Mail was the most critical paper of every decision the government made over COVID, sometimes in the same day they would claim the government was being too strict and not strict enough.
    A weird mash up of Piers Corbyn and Piers Morgan
    It was quite weird. The telegraph were consistently we need to live with this / think of business etc, the guardian full on zero covid / corruption is behind every decision, the Mail you refreshed the page and it went from Boris is destroying the UK economy to Boris is killing grannies by not being tough enough.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm not saying Simon Jenkins is a Kremlin stooge, but Simon Jenkins is not not a Kremlin stooge
    His article about Russia's military build up in January began by claiming that "nothing on the ground poses any strategic threat to Britain or any other western government, or even to Europe’s security as a whole."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk
    That article has aged well, hasn't it?

    Another one who believes that Russia should be the gendarme of Eastern Europe.
    I am not aware of anything going on in Ukraine that *has*posed a strategical threat to Britain. The above seems a not very insightful statement of fact.
    There is a simple and very obvious strategic threat. Most of us believe very strongly (and this is backed up by many independent analysts) that Putin has his eyes not only on Ukraine but on many of the former Iron Curtain countries. Remember his demands prior to invading Ukraine were not just that Ukraine should be within the Russian sphere but that NATO should withdraw from all the former Warsaw Pact countries or risk war. Many of these are now members of NATO and an attack on one of those would precipitate open war between the UK and Russia.

    That is not just a strategic threat but quite likely an existential threat as well. Far better to make a stand now rather than allowing Putin victories which would probably embolden him.

    Jenkins was, is, and will remain, wrong if that is his view.
    Perhaps, but that is dependent on a British response. As is the above post about Russia threatening nuclear obliteration. The objective reality is that Russia can gobble up as much of Eastern and Central Europe is it likes, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to Britain's interests. It would be horrible for those concerned however.
    You seriously think that if Putin seized all of eastern and Central Europe, presumably including Poland, Romania, the Baltics, Finland, Czechia, Croatia, Austria, etc etc etc, ie half of the EU and NATO, that wouldn’t make “a blind bit of difference to Britain’s interests”?

    You’re a fucking lunatic
    Yes, I really think that. That's not the same as staying I want it to happen. Historically, bits of Europe change hands all the time, between the Holy Roman Empire and the French, and blobs of Germany, and the Pope. It doesn't make much difference to Britain. We are an Island, a 'fortress built by Nature for herself against infection and the hand of war'.
    Well she singularly failed against infection and the hand of war certainly extended itself to our shores the last time someone thought a central European war was "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing"
    The Anti-French-Ditch came in very handy. See the Sandhiurst war gaming of Sealion. On one run, the Germans achieved losses of 25% in the first wave. Before any British units did anything…
    Didn't help much against the bombing though did it. My point is that pretending we can sit safely on our island whilst the world goes to hell in a handcart is a very foolish position. I wouldn't go as far as Leon in calling Luckyguy a fucking lunatic but I think he is being very naive about our position in the world today.
    Personally I think the naivety lies in the opposite approach.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    dixiedean said:

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    It worth remembering it isn't very long ago that the Mail was the most critical paper of every decision the government made over COVID, sometimes in the same day they would claim the government was being too strict and not strict enough.
    Wasn't that under a different editor?
    Good point, forgot they changed in Nov 2021.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,251
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kjh said:

    Do you approve of Zahawi treatment at this university

    And would Starmer get the same reception

    What happened to free speech
    In answer to you questions:

    1) Yes, it is what a small group of students always do. They will be voting Tory in 20 years with a mortgage and two kids.

    2) I would hope so.

    3) It is free speech, if somewhat immature

    In my day 99% of students didn't do this, I suspect it is the same today. In my entire student days I only attended one event and that was because it was a motion in support of the IRA. This was at the height of the troubles so just about the entire student population turned up to tell the supporters of the motion to sod off, which they did.
    The Warwick student union’s society for “Lesbian, Gay, Bi+, Trans, Undefined and Asexual/Aromantic”

    Aromatic? When did this become a term?

    Honestly, I just can't keep up these days.

    Aromantic, not aromatic - albeit most students do, in fact, smell rather.
    What does it mean?

    It means you like sex - with whom is unspecified - but you're not keen on the whole buying flowers and chocolates malarky.
    So 90% of male students then?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Yougov has 12% with 'some or lots of interest' in the new series
    2% of over 65s apparently
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    In English? I’m old and out of touch with da yuf
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    Might depend who the successor is?

    Doubt the Mail will be too happy with Hunt but they would be wetting themselves over Patel or JRM.



  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Scott_xP said:

    Team Boris’ attention is turning to shoring up support for when a possible confidence vote is held, per one source. Mood in No 10 is low, with special advisers joking that it is time for yet another “reset”

    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-in-danger-as-mps-conclude-hell-cost-them-votes/

    Have they run out of deceased moggies?

    Surely, there's something left in the bottom of the fetid barrel?

    Free pork scratchings for anyone who orders a pint with a crown emblem on it?

    All new cars to have to incorporate a small union jack flag on the roof?

    Thieves to be branded?

    There is no more room on the table for anymore dead cats.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm not saying Simon Jenkins is a Kremlin stooge, but Simon Jenkins is not not a Kremlin stooge
    His article about Russia's military build up in January began by claiming that "nothing on the ground poses any strategic threat to Britain or any other western government, or even to Europe’s security as a whole."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk
    That article has aged well, hasn't it?

    Another one who believes that Russia should be the gendarme of Eastern Europe.
    I am not aware of anything going on in Ukraine that *has*posed a strategical threat to Britain. The above seems a not very insightful statement of fact.
    There is a simple and very obvious strategic threat. Most of us believe very strongly (and this is backed up by many independent analysts) that Putin has his eyes not only on Ukraine but on many of the former Iron Curtain countries. Remember his demands prior to invading Ukraine were not just that Ukraine should be within the Russian sphere but that NATO should withdraw from all the former Warsaw Pact countries or risk war. Many of these are now members of NATO and an attack on one of those would precipitate open war between the UK and Russia.

    That is not just a strategic threat but quite likely an existential threat as well. Far better to make a stand now rather than allowing Putin victories which would probably embolden him.

    Jenkins was, is, and will remain, wrong if that is his view.
    Perhaps, but that is dependent on a British response. As is the above post about Russia threatening nuclear obliteration. The objective reality is that Russia can gobble up as much of Eastern and Central Europe is it likes, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to Britain's interests. It would be horrible for those concerned however.
    You seriously think that if Putin seized all of eastern and Central Europe, presumably including Poland, Romania, the Baltics, Finland, Czechia, Croatia, Austria, etc etc etc, ie half of the EU and NATO, that wouldn’t make “a blind bit of difference to Britain’s interests”?

    You’re a fucking lunatic
    Yes, I really think that. That's not the same as staying I want it to happen. Historically, bits of Europe change hands all the time, between the Holy Roman Empire and the French, and blobs of Germany, and the Pope. It doesn't make much difference to Britain. We are an Island, a 'fortress built by Nature for herself against infection and the hand of war'.
    Well she singularly failed against infection and the hand of war certainly extended itself to our shores the last time someone thought a central European war was "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing"
    The Anti-French-Ditch came in very handy. See the Sandhiurst war gaming of Sealion. On one run, the Germans achieved losses of 25% in the first wave. Before any British units did anything…
    Do you have a reference for that, please? I'd be interested, though might have the relevant book already ...
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm not saying Simon Jenkins is a Kremlin stooge, but Simon Jenkins is not not a Kremlin stooge
    His article about Russia's military build up in January began by claiming that "nothing on the ground poses any strategic threat to Britain or any other western government, or even to Europe’s security as a whole."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk
    That article has aged well, hasn't it?

    Another one who believes that Russia should be the gendarme of Eastern Europe.
    I am not aware of anything going on in Ukraine that *has*posed a strategical threat to Britain. The above seems a not very insightful statement of fact.
    There is a simple and very obvious strategic threat. Most of us believe very strongly (and this is backed up by many independent analysts) that Putin has his eyes not only on Ukraine but on many of the former Iron Curtain countries. Remember his demands prior to invading Ukraine were not just that Ukraine should be within the Russian sphere but that NATO should withdraw from all the former Warsaw Pact countries or risk war. Many of these are now members of NATO and an attack on one of those would precipitate open war between the UK and Russia.

    That is not just a strategic threat but quite likely an existential threat as well. Far better to make a stand now rather than allowing Putin victories which would probably embolden him.

    Jenkins was, is, and will remain, wrong if that is his view.
    Perhaps, but that is dependent on a British response. As is the above post about Russia threatening nuclear obliteration. The objective reality is that Russia can gobble up as much of Eastern and Central Europe is it likes, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to Britain's interests. It would be horrible for those concerned however.
    You seriously think that if Putin seized all of eastern and Central Europe, presumably including Poland, Romania, the Baltics, Finland, Czechia, Croatia, Austria, etc etc etc, ie half of the EU and NATO, that wouldn’t make “a blind bit of difference to Britain’s interests”?

    You’re a fucking lunatic
    Yes, I really think that. That's not the same as staying I want it to happen. Historically, bits of Europe change hands all the time, between the Holy Roman Empire and the French, and blobs of Germany, and the Pope. It doesn't make much difference to Britain. We are an Island, a 'fortress built by Nature for herself against infection and the hand of war'.
    Well she singularly failed against infection and the hand of war certainly extended itself to our shores the last time someone thought a central European war was "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing"
    The Anti-French-Ditch came in very handy. See the Sandhiurst war gaming of Sealion. On one run, the Germans achieved losses of 25% in the first wave. Before any British units did anything…
    Do you have a reference for that, please? I'd be interested, though might have the relevant book already ...
    The sheer industrial effort the US and U.K. committed to D-Day shows just how difficult Sealion would have been. I doubt it could have been done in 1940, and the Germans were planning on using barges, I think. Even with dominance in the air, which was never that likely, the British Navy was still a potent threat.
    I haven’t got a link to the formal write ups of the games. Sadly.

    Apparently in one game, the chap playing Goering was asked what the hell he was doing? He stated that he was trying to maximise Goerings position in the Third Reich in the game, by sabotaging rivals.

    The barge story is somewhere between comic and and sad.

    Perfectly summed up by the late, great Alison Brookes - https://www.philmasters.org.uk/SF/Sealion.htm

    {Alien Space Bats have entered the chat}
    Many thanks! I used to have the SPI wargame in my school days. In fact I might have it still somewhere in the cupboard ...
    Yes, I've got that somewhere too - enjoyed it, but fairly persuasive as to why they didn't try.

    Are any of you fellow-gamers going to this one?

    https://www.verylargehugegames.com/first-contact-2035

    I'll be there with a few friends - I'm cast as an alien (which will not surprise some of you). I designed one of the megagames a long time back, with 50 players. Called "The Middle East Peacegame", set in the 70s, it had players for Israel, PLO, Saudi, US, Russia, Cihna, Britain, etc. - as in this new game, everyone had individual secret objectives. The PLO unexpectedly scored best, as I recall, by fiendishly adroit manipulation of the other players.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    dixiedean said:

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
    🙄 . .
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    Not sure if people have heard about the baby formula story in the US, where one big plant has had to shut down over contamination, and now there's an emergency airlift from Ireland to replace the lost supply. Seems that Ireland is to baby formula as Ukraine is to wheat (and formerly Neon) - a source of a surprisingly large fraction of global exports.

    Made me think a bit more about the fundamentally interconnected nature of global trade these days, and wonder what key product the world would suddenly find themselves short of if other countries were forced out of global markets.

    I know Scotland is the source of a large fraction of the world's seed potatoes. England is home to most of F1. Is there anything more fundamental that England is central to?

    What about other countries?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    Might depend who the successor is?

    Doubt the Mail will be too happy with Hunt but they would be wetting themselves over Patel or JRM.



    I just had a vision of Patel and Mogg launching a joint bid at a presser. They look like a weird 1989 Brits with Sam Fox and Mick Fleetwood
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    In English? I’m old and out of touch with da yuf
    I’ll do you a picture

    image
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Not sure if people have heard about the baby formula story in the US, where one big plant has had to shut down over contamination, and now there's an emergency airlift from Ireland to replace the lost supply. Seems that Ireland is to baby formula as Ukraine is to wheat (and formerly Neon) - a source of a surprisingly large fraction of global exports.

    Made me think a bit more about the fundamentally interconnected nature of global trade these days, and wonder what key product the world would suddenly find themselves short of if other countries were forced out of global markets.

    I know Scotland is the source of a large fraction of the world's seed potatoes. England is home to most of F1. Is there anything more fundamental that England is central to?

    What about other countries?

    Aerospace design and tech?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm not saying Simon Jenkins is a Kremlin stooge, but Simon Jenkins is not not a Kremlin stooge
    His article about Russia's military build up in January began by claiming that "nothing on the ground poses any strategic threat to Britain or any other western government, or even to Europe’s security as a whole."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk
    That article has aged well, hasn't it?

    Another one who believes that Russia should be the gendarme of Eastern Europe.
    I am not aware of anything going on in Ukraine that *has*posed a strategical threat to Britain. The above seems a not very insightful statement of fact.
    There is a simple and very obvious strategic threat. Most of us believe very strongly (and this is backed up by many independent analysts) that Putin has his eyes not only on Ukraine but on many of the former Iron Curtain countries. Remember his demands prior to invading Ukraine were not just that Ukraine should be within the Russian sphere but that NATO should withdraw from all the former Warsaw Pact countries or risk war. Many of these are now members of NATO and an attack on one of those would precipitate open war between the UK and Russia.

    That is not just a strategic threat but quite likely an existential threat as well. Far better to make a stand now rather than allowing Putin victories which would probably embolden him.

    Jenkins was, is, and will remain, wrong if that is his view.
    Perhaps, but that is dependent on a British response. As is the above post about Russia threatening nuclear obliteration. The objective reality is that Russia can gobble up as much of Eastern and Central Europe is it likes, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to Britain's interests. It would be horrible for those concerned however.
    You seriously think that if Putin seized all of eastern and Central Europe, presumably including Poland, Romania, the Baltics, Finland, Czechia, Croatia, Austria, etc etc etc, ie half of the EU and NATO, that wouldn’t make “a blind bit of difference to Britain’s interests”?

    You’re a fucking lunatic
    Yes, I really think that. That's not the same as staying I want it to happen. Historically, bits of Europe change hands all the time, between the Holy Roman Empire and the French, and blobs of Germany, and the Pope. It doesn't make much difference to Britain. We are an Island, a 'fortress built by Nature for herself against infection and the hand of war'.
    Well she singularly failed against infection and the hand of war certainly extended itself to our shores the last time someone thought a central European war was "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing"
    The Anti-French-Ditch came in very handy. See the Sandhiurst war gaming of Sealion. On one run, the Germans achieved losses of 25% in the first wave. Before any British units did anything…
    Do you have a reference for that, please? I'd be interested, though might have the relevant book already ...
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    I'm not saying Simon Jenkins is a Kremlin stooge, but Simon Jenkins is not not a Kremlin stooge
    His article about Russia's military build up in January began by claiming that "nothing on the ground poses any strategic threat to Britain or any other western government, or even to Europe’s security as a whole."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/24/autonomy-eastern-ukraine-crisis-nato-russia-minsk
    That article has aged well, hasn't it?

    Another one who believes that Russia should be the gendarme of Eastern Europe.
    I am not aware of anything going on in Ukraine that *has*posed a strategical threat to Britain. The above seems a not very insightful statement of fact.
    There is a simple and very obvious strategic threat. Most of us believe very strongly (and this is backed up by many independent analysts) that Putin has his eyes not only on Ukraine but on many of the former Iron Curtain countries. Remember his demands prior to invading Ukraine were not just that Ukraine should be within the Russian sphere but that NATO should withdraw from all the former Warsaw Pact countries or risk war. Many of these are now members of NATO and an attack on one of those would precipitate open war between the UK and Russia.

    That is not just a strategic threat but quite likely an existential threat as well. Far better to make a stand now rather than allowing Putin victories which would probably embolden him.

    Jenkins was, is, and will remain, wrong if that is his view.
    Perhaps, but that is dependent on a British response. As is the above post about Russia threatening nuclear obliteration. The objective reality is that Russia can gobble up as much of Eastern and Central Europe is it likes, and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to Britain's interests. It would be horrible for those concerned however.
    You seriously think that if Putin seized all of eastern and Central Europe, presumably including Poland, Romania, the Baltics, Finland, Czechia, Croatia, Austria, etc etc etc, ie half of the EU and NATO, that wouldn’t make “a blind bit of difference to Britain’s interests”?

    You’re a fucking lunatic
    Yes, I really think that. That's not the same as staying I want it to happen. Historically, bits of Europe change hands all the time, between the Holy Roman Empire and the French, and blobs of Germany, and the Pope. It doesn't make much difference to Britain. We are an Island, a 'fortress built by Nature for herself against infection and the hand of war'.
    Well she singularly failed against infection and the hand of war certainly extended itself to our shores the last time someone thought a central European war was "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing"
    The Anti-French-Ditch came in very handy. See the Sandhiurst war gaming of Sealion. On one run, the Germans achieved losses of 25% in the first wave. Before any British units did anything…
    Do you have a reference for that, please? I'd be interested, though might have the relevant book already ...
    The sheer industrial effort the US and U.K. committed to D-Day shows just how difficult Sealion would have been. I doubt it could have been done in 1940, and the Germans were planning on using barges, I think. Even with dominance in the air, which was never that likely, the British Navy was still a potent threat.
    I haven’t got a link to the formal write ups of the games. Sadly.

    Apparently in one game, the chap playing Goering was asked what the hell he was doing? He stated that he was trying to maximise Goerings position in the Third Reich in the game, by sabotaging rivals.

    The barge story is somewhere between comic and and sad.

    Perfectly summed up by the late, great Alison Brookes - https://www.philmasters.org.uk/SF/Sealion.htm

    {Alien Space Bats have entered the chat}
    Many thanks! I used to have the SPI wargame in my school days. In fact I might have it still somewhere in the cupboard ...
    Yes, I've got that somewhere too - enjoyed it, but fairly persuasive as to why they didn't try.

    Are any of you fellow-gamers going to this one?

    https://www.verylargehugegames.com/first-contact-2035

    I'll be there with a few friends - I'm cast as an alien (which will not surprise some of you). I designed one of the megagames a long time back, with 50 players. Called "The Middle East Peacegame", set in the 70s, it had players for Israel, PLO, Saudi, US, Russia, Cihna, Britain, etc. - as in this new game, everyone had individual secret objectives. The PLO unexpectedly scored best, as I recall, by fiendishly adroit manipulation of the other players.
    Wow. Interesting stuff. I was a bit of a wargamer back in my teen years. Minifigs anyone?

    I don't get how you combine board game with live role play though?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited May 2022

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    Stay up? I was watching it Saturday lunchtime on the way to the football

    Slim majority sounds bad, but maybe not - greens and teals should back the environment push at least, if not the social policy and swathes of economic and foreign policy, so not look to bring the government down anytime soon as opportunity to get movement on what they want.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Mingin'?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    Yes. 80.1 % counted. 10 days later. A majority of 3 would be much easier.
    Yet they seem to just get on and cope.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    kjh said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Team Boris’ attention is turning to shoring up support for when a possible confidence vote is held, per one source. Mood in No 10 is low, with special advisers joking that it is time for yet another “reset”

    https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-in-danger-as-mps-conclude-hell-cost-them-votes/

    Have they run out of deceased moggies?

    Surely, there's something left in the bottom of the fetid barrel?

    Free pork scratchings for anyone who orders a pint with a crown emblem on it?

    All new cars to have to incorporate a small union jack flag on the roof?

    Thieves to be branded?

    There is no more room on the table for anymore dead cats.
    Then, Johnson is done.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    24m
    My take on where the leadership speciation is tonight..

    Can reveal PM plotting joint speech on economy with Sunak in coming weeks.. tie together growth push with deregulation package - including massive post-Brexit insurance reforms...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    edited May 2022
    dixiedean said:

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    Yes. 80.1 % counted. 10 days later. A majority of 3 would be much easier.
    Yet they seem to just get on and cope.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=indoubt&sort=az&state=all

    Why did the count take so long? Did they hire koala bears
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    24m
    My take on where the leadership speciation is tonight..

    Can reveal PM plotting joint speech on economy with Sunak in coming weeks.. tie together growth push with deregulation package - including massive post-Brexit insurance reforms...

    Trying to take Sunak with him in a crocodile death roll
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
    🙄 . .
    You may jest. But I did once date a deaf Japanese girl. We only communicated in writing.
    A bit of her English and my kanji. We somehow managed to pick each other up on barmats.
    If there is a strong enough will there's a way.
    I fervently hope she's OK now.
    I really liked her.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Iain Dale ⚒️🇺🇦
    @IainDale
    ·
    6h
    As a student of 8 Tory leadership contests over 32 years all my instincts are that the threshold of 54 MPs has been, or is close to being met. The list so far is very far from being full of the 'usual suspects'

    Next week could be very interesting indeed when Parliament returns.

    https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1531288149875380227
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525



    Wow. Interesting stuff. I was a bit of a wargamer back in my teen years. Minifigs anyone?

    I don't get how you combine board game with live role play though?

    The games are turn-based, and everyone submits orders to the gamemasters, who adjust the maps accordingly - if China takes advantage of the distraction to invade Taiwan, for instance, that will be resolved as one part of the turn while other things are happening all over the world - and perhaps beyond.

    In a previous version of this game (which you can see a video about on the site), the aliens settled on the moon, built a base, and sent out negotiating teams to the human governments, who had to (a) decide whether the alins were peaceful and (b) try to use their scientific advantage to gain advantage in power struggles on earth - if you imagine Trump or Putin being offered super-technology to make themselves nearly invincible, are you sure they'd refuse?

    In that game, one of the countries which felt that its rivals were getting an unfair advantage nuked the alien moonbase. Which was unfortunate, as the aliens had in fact come in peace to see whether humanity were ready for galactic friendship.

    Is the scenario similar here? Who knows? I've not got my briefing yet, nor have the other 199 players. Can't wait!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    "Russ Jones
    @RussInCheshire
    I'm hearing 54 letters have been handed in, and a confidence vote in Johnson is likely in early June. Rumour. But solid source.

    If so, I suspect Johnson will push for the confidence vote immediately, so it happens before by-elections. And he'll survive. Weak. But survive 1/2"

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1531350244159635456
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    24m
    My take on where the leadership speciation is tonight..

    Can reveal PM plotting joint speech on economy with Sunak in coming weeks.. tie together growth push with deregulation package - including massive post-Brexit insurance reforms...

    Johnson doesn’t get it . No ones interested in hearing what the clown has to say anymore . It all looks rather desperate , Johnson , the Norma Desmond of no 10.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
    🙄 . .
    You may jest. But I did once date a deaf Japanese girl. We only communicated in writing.
    A bit of her English and my kanji. We somehow managed to pick each other up on barmats.
    Its gotta be a killer when you send a written request for sex and get a post it back with 'no'!
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Not sure if people have heard about the baby formula story in the US, where one big plant has had to shut down over contamination, and now there's an emergency airlift from Ireland to replace the lost supply. Seems that Ireland is to baby formula as Ukraine is to wheat (and formerly Neon) - a source of a surprisingly large fraction of global exports.

    Made me think a bit more about the fundamentally interconnected nature of global trade these days, and wonder what key product the world would suddenly find themselves short of if other countries were forced out of global markets.

    I know Scotland is the source of a large fraction of the world's seed potatoes. England is home to most of F1. Is there anything more fundamental that England is central to?

    What about other countries?

    Ireland and New Zealand have vast dairy processing sectors relative to size. Trustworthy supply chains, enough land, lots of rain, milk's mostly water.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Russ Jones
    @RussInCheshire
    I'm hearing 54 letters have been handed in, and a confidence vote in Johnson is likely in early June. Rumour. But solid source.

    If so, I suspect Johnson will push for the confidence vote immediately, so it happens before by-elections. And he'll survive. Weak. But survive 1/2"

    https://twitter.com/RussInCheshire/status/1531350244159635456

    I’ve been saying this for weeks.

    He won’t lose it and then will lead the Tories into the next election.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    dixiedean said:

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    Yes. 80.1 % counted. 10 days later. A majority of 3 would be much easier.
    Yet they seem to just get on and cope.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=indoubt&sort=az&state=all

    Why did the count take so long? Did they hire koala bears
    AV.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    Yes I've been following it every day. In fact no seats have been officially declared yet. Everything so far is just a result of media "calls", similar to the situation at US elections.

    https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/HouseDefault-27966.htm
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,089
    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821
    Applicant said:

    dixiedean said:

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    Yes. 80.1 % counted. 10 days later. A majority of 3 would be much easier.
    Yet they seem to just get on and cope.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=indoubt&sort=az&state=all

    Why did the count take so long? Did they hire koala bears
    AV.
    UK referendum on AV 2011:

    No2AV 68%
    Yes2AV 32%

    :innocent:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    nico679 said:


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    24m
    My take on where the leadership speciation is tonight..

    Can reveal PM plotting joint speech on economy with Sunak in coming weeks.. tie together growth push with deregulation package - including massive post-Brexit insurance reforms...

    Johnson doesn’t get it . No ones interested in hearing what the clown has to say anymore . It all looks rather desperate , Johnson , the Norma Desmond of no 10.
    Agreed. He's just a feckin' cuckoo now. Begone man.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited May 2022

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
    🙄 . .
    You may jest. But I did once date a deaf Japanese girl. We only communicated in writing.
    A bit of her English and my kanji. We somehow managed to pick each other up on barmats.
    Its gotta be a killer when you send a written request for sex and get a post it back with 'no'!
    It sure was different.
    She got me into some super weird kinky modern woke stuff.
    The "Internet" and "email". So we could talk at lunchtime.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    nico679 said:


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    24m
    My take on where the leadership speciation is tonight..

    Can reveal PM plotting joint speech on economy with Sunak in coming weeks.. tie together growth push with deregulation package - including massive post-Brexit insurance reforms...

    Johnson doesn’t get it . No ones interested in hearing what the clown has to say anymore . It all looks rather desperate , Johnson , the Norma Desmond of no 10.
    This is just the public stuff. Behind the scenes all sorts of knighthoods and other promises are being offered no doubt. Money for this northern constituency's college. New bridge over the river for that SW seat. A diplomatic post for this ageing grandee's nephew. and so on.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
    🙄 . .
    You may jest. But I did once date a deaf Japanese girl. We only communicated in writing.
    A bit of her English and my kanji. We somehow managed to pick each other up on barmats.
    Its gotta be a killer when you send a written request for sex and get a post it back with 'no'!
    It sure was different.
    She got me into some super weird kinky modern woke stuff.
    The "Internet" and "email". So we could talk at lunchtime.
    Kids today and their dating. Its not the latest Boris Karloff at the drive in for sure
  • @MoonRabbit are you a Love Island fan?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    edited May 2022



    Wow. Interesting stuff. I was a bit of a wargamer back in my teen years. Minifigs anyone?

    I don't get how you combine board game with live role play though?

    The games are turn-based, and everyone submits orders to the gamemasters, who adjust the maps accordingly - if China takes advantage of the distraction to invade Taiwan, for instance, that will be resolved as one part of the turn while other things are happening all over the world - and perhaps beyond.

    In a previous version of this game (which you can see a video about on the site), the aliens settled on the moon, built a base, and sent out negotiating teams to the human governments, who had to (a) decide whether the alins were peaceful and (b) try to use their scientific advantage to gain advantage in power struggles on earth - if you imagine Trump or Putin being offered super-technology to make themselves nearly invincible, are you sure they'd refuse?

    In that game, one of the countries which felt that its rivals were getting an unfair advantage nuked the alien moonbase. Which was unfortunate, as the aliens had in fact come in peace to see whether humanity were ready for galactic friendship.

    Is the scenario similar here? Who knows? I've not got my briefing yet, nor have the other 199 players. Can't wait!
    I may be being thick - but where is the live role play in that? In sounds a bit like a massive version of Diplomacy?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    An election doesn't need to be held until January 2025, so even if Johnson survives a VONC this year there would still be plenty of time for a second vote next year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    In the meantime arch conservative Peter Dutton was elected today as the new Liberal Party leader after Scott Morrison's resignation and thus also Leader of the Opposition

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-61628713.amp
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    Yes, because there isn't going to be a coronation this time, which means the new leader won't be known for about 3 months while the campaign and ballot of Tory members takes place.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,089

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
    A man so petty he apparently was concerned, as an adult, that Cameron did better than him at university, and even felt the need to pen childish insults about him (girly swot) on official papers? Yes, I think he is exactly the sort who would be sincerely delighted to last longer than May.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    F*cking LOL.


    FT warning that supermarkets are saying imperial measurements dead cat will push up inflation.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
    A man so petty he apparently was concerned, as an adult, that Cameron did better than him at university, and even felt the need to pen childish insults about him (girly swot) on official papers? Yes, I think he is exactly the sort who would be sincerely delighted to last longer than May.
    Cameron Minor.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
    A man so petty he apparently was concerned, as an adult, that Cameron did better than him at university, and even felt the need to pen childish insults about him (girly swot) on official papers? Yes, I think he is exactly the sort who would be sincerely delighted to last longer than May.
    He really wont want to go anywhere till he is past Cameron. Thats another 3 and some years. Yuck.
    Typical public school low key bullying and hierarchy entitlement bollocks
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    The EU have got through a new sanctions package on Russia. They have done it by not stopping the oil. Isn't the EU marvellous?

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1531394254836224003
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    If he makes it to next month he also overtakes Brown's tenure as PM
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    If he makes it to next month he also overtakes Brown's tenure as PM
    Wednesday next week is > Brown day
    And Friday next week > Duke of Wellington day
    Four weeks after that he goes past Chamberlain then he's hunting May in early August followed by Callaghan late August.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,089
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    If he makes it to next month...
    2 days from now? :)

    In fairness that almost does it for him.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_length_of_tenure
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    I hope the TV coverage is better than recently for the Glasto. I like the line ups on the main stages,
    as I look down the list much to peak my interest.

    RUFUS WAINWRIGHT: 13:45 – 14:45
    KENDRICK LAMAR: 21:45 – 23:15

    LORDE: 19:30 – 20:45

    ELBOW: 17:45 – 18:45

    DIANA ROSS: 16:00 – 17:15

    HERBIE HANCOCK: 14:00 – 15:00
    FOALS: 22:30 – 23:45

    ST VINCENT: 20:30 – 21:30

    IDLES: 18:45 – 19:45

    SUPERGRASS: 17:15 – 18:15
    PET SHOP BOYS: 21:45 – 23:15

    YEARS & YEARS: 19:45 – 20:45
    PRIMAL SCREAM: 22:30 – 23:45
    CHARLI XCX: 21:30 – 22:45
    THE AVALANCHES: 19:45 – 20:45

    But on the other hand, that’s only because I listen to a lot of music from before my time - overall this does look like it’s been put together by someone born mid eighties?

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/glastonbury-festival-2022-stage-set-times-full-line-up-3236490
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504

    @MoonRabbit are you a Love Island fan?

    Who isn’t? 🥹
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022

    @MoonRabbit are you a Love Island fan?

    Who isn’t? 🥹
    According to yougov 88% of us
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Just caught end of Newsnight and an interview with Rowan Williams about monarchy and in particular the Queen and his time with her.

    A lefty (almost republic as a lad) accepts that his time with her as changed his mind about constitutional monarchy.

    It's a belter of a piece.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    If Boris is ousted I wonder what the Mail's take will be. Will they go with 'Treacherous Tories destroy the national treasure that is Boris' or will they decide to draw a line under the entire Boris experiment and quickly get behind his successor? As HYUFD suggested, many Tories may simply refuse to accept Boris's removal and treat him as a kind of leader in exile. That would be a fascinating development.

    The King is dead. Long live the King.

    Thatcher held sway over chunks of the party because for good or ill she had a coherent philosophy and put in the hard yards.

    After Johnson goes it will be "What were we thinking? Was I that drunk?"
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871



    Wow. Interesting stuff. I was a bit of a wargamer back in my teen years. Minifigs anyone?

    I don't get how you combine board game with live role play though?

    The games are turn-based, and everyone submits orders to the gamemasters, who adjust the maps accordingly - if China takes advantage of the distraction to invade Taiwan, for instance, that will be resolved as one part of the turn while other things are happening all over the world - and perhaps beyond.

    In a previous version of this game (which you can see a video about on the site), the aliens settled on the moon, built a base, and sent out negotiating teams to the human governments, who had to (a) decide whether the alins were peaceful and (b) try to use their scientific advantage to gain advantage in power struggles on earth - if you imagine Trump or Putin being offered super-technology to make themselves nearly invincible, are you sure they'd refuse?

    In that game, one of the countries which felt that its rivals were getting an unfair advantage nuked the alien moonbase. Which was unfortunate, as the aliens had in fact come in peace to see whether humanity were ready for galactic friendship.

    Is the scenario similar here? Who knows? I've not got my briefing yet, nor have the other 199 players. Can't wait!
    The aliens should always be nuked, when has an advanced civillisation met a less advanced one and that has turned out well....we could ask the inca's I guess or the american indians...or the africans. Isn't the saying those who don't learn from history are doomed to reapeat it so if a an advanced civilliastion turns up kill it with extreme predjudice
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    AlistairM said:

    The EU have got through a new sanctions package on Russia. They have done it by not stopping the oil. Isn't the EU marvellous?

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1531394254836224003

    You can blame the Brexiteers' favourite populist-nationalist friend, Hungary.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    AlistairM said:

    The EU have got through a new sanctions package on Russia. They have done it by not stopping the oil. Isn't the EU marvellous?

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1531394254836224003

    When is Russian oil not Russian oil when it comes via a pipeline direct from Russia....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,630
    EPG said:

    AlistairM said:

    The EU have got through a new sanctions package on Russia. They have done it by not stopping the oil. Isn't the EU marvellous?

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1531394254836224003

    You can blame the Brexiteers' favourite populist-nationalist friend, Hungary.
    They’re a convenient scapegoat for other member states.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Just caught end of Newsnight and an interview with Rowan Williams about monarchy and in particular the Queen and his time with her.

    A lefty (almost republic as a lad) accepts that his time with her as changed his mind about constitutional monarchy.

    It's a belter of a piece.

    I watched it. His voice is very soothing.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    EPG said:

    AlistairM said:

    The EU have got through a new sanctions package on Russia. They have done it by not stopping the oil. Isn't the EU marvellous?

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1531394254836224003

    You can blame the Brexiteers' favourite populist-nationalist friend, Hungary.
    They’re a convenient scapegoat for other member states.
    Seen plenty of brexiteers criticize hungry not so many euphiles
  • An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    nico679 said:


    Harry Cole
    @MrHarryCole
    ·
    24m
    My take on where the leadership speciation is tonight..

    Can reveal PM plotting joint speech on economy with Sunak in coming weeks.. tie together growth push with deregulation package - including massive post-Brexit insurance reforms...

    Johnson doesn’t get it . No ones interested in hearing what the clown has to say anymore . It all looks rather desperate , Johnson , the Norma Desmond of no 10.
    True, but taking seriously what greasy Harry is saying (which is hard after he shredded his credibility over beergate) what long term damage could be done to economy by someone in power being so short termist they are literally looking to survive June?

    What is the inherent vice in growth push when you (not our St Bart apart) would rather inflation came right down asap, and deregulation and insurance reforms? 🤔
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,504
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Love Islands coming and Tasha from thirsk is bloody maftin

    Just googled.
    We are, for once, in total agreement.
    What's more. I wouldn't have to make small talk.
    🙄 . .
    You may jest. But I did once date a deaf Japanese girl. We only communicated in writing.
    A bit of her English and my kanji. We somehow managed to pick each other up on barmats.
    If there is a strong enough will there's a way.
    I fervently hope she's OK now.
    I really liked her.
    Handy with your kanji 🤣
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525



    Wow. Interesting stuff. I was a bit of a wargamer back in my teen years. Minifigs anyone?

    I don't get how you combine board game with live role play though?

    The games are turn-based, and everyone submits orders to the gamemasters, who adjust the maps accordingly - if China takes advantage of the distraction to invade Taiwan, for instance, that will be resolved as one part of the turn while other things are happening all over the world - and perhaps beyond.

    In a previous version of this game (which you can see a video about on the site), the aliens settled on the moon, built a base, and sent out negotiating teams to the human governments, who had to (a) decide whether the alins were peaceful and (b) try to use their scientific advantage to gain advantage in power struggles on earth - if you imagine Trump or Putin being offered super-technology to make themselves nearly invincible, are you sure they'd refuse?

    In that game, one of the countries which felt that its rivals were getting an unfair advantage nuked the alien moonbase. Which was unfortunate, as the aliens had in fact come in peace to see whether humanity were ready for galactic friendship.

    Is the scenario similar here? Who knows? I've not got my briefing yet, nor have the other 199 players. Can't wait!
    I may be being thick - but where is the live role play in that? In sounds a bit like a massive version of Diplomacy?
    In a way. But say you're an alien, coming in peace, or not. You need to judge how your blandishments will be accepted, and it's a fair bet that the other players will be more impressed if you're a convincing alien than if you just say "I've come with some science secrets, mates, d'ya want them?" - even if your sibilant hisses are double-dealing, they're interesting enough to play along with.

    But it's the secret victory conditions that make these games more than the role-playing. In Diplomacy, we all know what every wants - 18 supply centres. Here, maybe they're after power? Science? Friendship? Resources? And do all the aliens want the same? One trick is to misdirect, seemingly seeking one advantage, and getting the one you really care about instead. Another is to be perfectly honest - but then how do you persuade them?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
    A man so petty he apparently was concerned, as an adult, that Cameron did better than him at university, and even felt the need to pen childish insults about him (girly swot) on official papers? Yes, I think he is exactly the sort who would be sincerely delighted to last longer than May.
    He really wont want to go anywhere till he is past Cameron. Thats another 3 and some years. Yuck.
    Typical public school low key bullying and hierarchy entitlement bollocks
    Yeah? Nobody like that at all at your poor school, poorboi? rly?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Are the Russian bot farms so tight not to pay for commercial VPNs to bolt onto their comprised machines?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Are the Russian bot farms so tight not to pay for commercial VPNs to bolt onto their comprised machines?
    Do commercial vpn's accept rubles?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Pagan2 said:



    Wow. Interesting stuff. I was a bit of a wargamer back in my teen years. Minifigs anyone?

    I don't get how you combine board game with live role play though?

    The games are turn-based, and everyone submits orders to the gamemasters, who adjust the maps accordingly - if China takes advantage of the distraction to invade Taiwan, for instance, that will be resolved as one part of the turn while other things are happening all over the world - and perhaps beyond.

    In a previous version of this game (which you can see a video about on the site), the aliens settled on the moon, built a base, and sent out negotiating teams to the human governments, who had to (a) decide whether the alins were peaceful and (b) try to use their scientific advantage to gain advantage in power struggles on earth - if you imagine Trump or Putin being offered super-technology to make themselves nearly invincible, are you sure they'd refuse?

    In that game, one of the countries which felt that its rivals were getting an unfair advantage nuked the alien moonbase. Which was unfortunate, as the aliens had in fact come in peace to see whether humanity were ready for galactic friendship.

    Is the scenario similar here? Who knows? I've not got my briefing yet, nor have the other 199 players. Can't wait!
    The aliens should always be nuked, when has an advanced civillisation met a less advanced one and that has turned out well....we could ask the inca's I guess or the american indians...or the africans. Isn't the saying those who don't learn from history are doomed to reapeat it so if a an advanced civilliastion turns up kill it with extreme predjudice
    Vietnam?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Are the Russian bot farms so tight not to pay for commercial VPNs to bolt onto their comprised machines?
    Do commercial vpn's accept rubles?
    Point is if RCS told me my posts were coming from a know compromised ip or an ip in the range used by scammers. I would be going wtf and checking it out. Those it has been pointed out to however have just handwaved and gone shucks I use a vpn get over it
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Are the Russian bot farms so tight not to pay for commercial VPNs to bolt onto their comprised machines?
    Do commercial vpn's accept rubles?
    I just don't understand this, you can post all day for kopeks on an anonymous PAYG sim card so why would anyone be arsed with compromised VPNs and shit? It might make sense if you are a spammer sending out a trillion messages a day about V**gra (prolly not worth the bother now its gone generic. allegedly) but if not whats tf point?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited May 2022
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Are the Russian bot farms so tight not to pay for commercial VPNs to bolt onto their comprised machines?
    Do commercial vpn's accept rubles?
    Many accept crypto.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 2022
    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
    A man so petty he apparently was concerned, as an adult, that Cameron did better than him at university, and even felt the need to pen childish insults about him (girly swot) on official papers? Yes, I think he is exactly the sort who would be sincerely delighted to last longer than May.
    He really wont want to go anywhere till he is past Cameron. Thats another 3 and some years. Yuck.
    Typical public school low key bullying and hierarchy entitlement bollocks
    Yeah? Nobody like that at all at your poor school, poorboi? rly?
    Theres people like it everywhere. But given Cameron and Johnson are both famously public school boys and Bullingdon types and from the well to do echelons of society i dont think criticism of public school attitudes and the sense of entitlement is completely out of left field
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I hope the TV coverage is better than recently for the Glasto. I like the line ups on the main stages,
    as I look down the list much to peak my interest.

    RUFUS WAINWRIGHT: 13:45 – 14:45
    KENDRICK LAMAR: 21:45 – 23:15

    LORDE: 19:30 – 20:45

    ELBOW: 17:45 – 18:45

    DIANA ROSS: 16:00 – 17:15

    HERBIE HANCOCK: 14:00 – 15:00
    FOALS: 22:30 – 23:45

    ST VINCENT: 20:30 – 21:30

    IDLES: 18:45 – 19:45

    SUPERGRASS: 17:15 – 18:15
    PET SHOP BOYS: 21:45 – 23:15

    YEARS & YEARS: 19:45 – 20:45
    PRIMAL SCREAM: 22:30 – 23:45
    CHARLI XCX: 21:30 – 22:45
    THE AVALANCHES: 19:45 – 20:45

    But on the other hand, that’s only because I listen to a lot of music from before my time - overall this does look like it’s been put together by someone born mid eighties?

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/glastonbury-festival-2022-stage-set-times-full-line-up-3236490

    I hope the TV coverage is better than recently for the Glasto. I like the line ups on the main stages,
    as I look down the list much to peak my interest.

    RUFUS WAINWRIGHT: 13:45 – 14:45
    KENDRICK LAMAR: 21:45 – 23:15

    LORDE: 19:30 – 20:45

    ELBOW: 17:45 – 18:45

    DIANA ROSS: 16:00 – 17:15

    HERBIE HANCOCK: 14:00 – 15:00
    FOALS: 22:30 – 23:45

    ST VINCENT: 20:30 – 21:30

    IDLES: 18:45 – 19:45

    SUPERGRASS: 17:15 – 18:15
    PET SHOP BOYS: 21:45 – 23:15

    YEARS & YEARS: 19:45 – 20:45
    PRIMAL SCREAM: 22:30 – 23:45
    CHARLI XCX: 21:30 – 22:45
    THE AVALANCHES: 19:45 – 20:45

    But on the other hand, that’s only because I listen to a lot of music from before my time - overall this does look like it’s been put together by someone born mid eighties?

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/glastonbury-festival-2022-stage-set-times-full-line-up-3236490

    it's pique not peak, and while i'm here, en masse and not on mass

    That lot leaves me cold. I thought Diana Ross was dead? the closest I have ever come to fame was talking to her on the phone. I'd pay £20 to hear Lorde for 75 minutes. Otherwise, what?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    EPG said:

    AlistairM said:

    The EU have got through a new sanctions package on Russia. They have done it by not stopping the oil. Isn't the EU marvellous?

    https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1531394254836224003

    You can blame the Brexiteers' favourite populist-nationalist friend, Hungary.
    They’re a convenient scapegoat for other member states.
    Up to a point, but they loudly wanted this, and not many other member states took the credit. It might be antigravity 5d chess, or it might be what it looks like.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    In the still unlikely event Boris were to lose a party VONC (and what a dramatic turnaound that would be from the triumph of 3 years ago), he presumably would stay on as PM for some time until a successor as Leader was clear, so he should still beat May's tenure as PM so long as the party does not unite behind a single candidate right away. 2 more months would see him past her.

    I'm sure that he will be delighted.
    A man so petty he apparently was concerned, as an adult, that Cameron did better than him at university, and even felt the need to pen childish insults about him (girly swot) on official papers? Yes, I think he is exactly the sort who would be sincerely delighted to last longer than May.
    He really wont want to go anywhere till he is past Cameron. Thats another 3 and some years. Yuck.
    Typical public school low key bullying and hierarchy entitlement bollocks
    Yeah? Nobody like that at all at your poor school, poorboi? rly?
    Theres people like it everywhere. But given Cameron and Johnson are both famously public school boys and Bullingdon types and from the well to do echelons of society i dont think criticism of public school attitudes and the sense of entitlement is completely out of left field
    Disagree, c**tdom is fairly evenly distributed. Bullingdonism is self-selected, public schoolism less so.
  • Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Technically speaking iCloud Private Relay is not a VPN but I take your point
  • HYUFD said:

    By the way, do you all remember the Australian elections, and perhaps regretting not staying up to see the outcome? They're STILL counting!

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/elections/federal/2022/results?filter=all&sort=az&state=all

    Two seats to go, and Labor has made it to a majority of 1...

    In the meantime arch conservative Peter Dutton was elected today as the new Liberal Party leader after Scott Morrison's resignation and thus also Leader of the Opposition

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-61628713.amp
    Ah so they're onto the Ian Duncan Smith era already, another 9 or so years of Labor then
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Technically speaking iCloud Private Relay is not a VPN but I take your point
    No but you don't post from a compromised ip regardless and if you were told you were you would find out why and fix it CHB
  • @MoonRabbit are you a Love Island fan?

    Who isn’t? 🥹
    Not me. But I know a person who was on it in the past
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    An argument about IP addresses used to access this site was used the other day, as evidence of being "dodgy".

    I use iCloud Private Relay, which I think might even be turned on by default now. This hides my IP address, do your worst

    VPN is not an issue CHB, some however used or claimed to use vpn's where the ip resolved to a compromised address used by spammers. A legitimate VPN would not do so. Either there VPN isnt legitimate or their core pc is compromised. When told this they went....I use a vpn get over it. Many people here probably do....we don't end up with posts coming from known troll or scam ranges however.
    Technically speaking iCloud Private Relay is not a VPN but I take your point
    No but you don't post from a compromised ip regardless and if you were told you were you would find out why and fix it CHB
    That's the first compliment I think you've ever given me
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432
    IshmaelZ said:

    I hope the TV coverage is better than recently for the Glasto. I like the line ups on the main stages,
    as I look down the list much to peak my interest.

    RUFUS WAINWRIGHT: 13:45 – 14:45
    KENDRICK LAMAR: 21:45 – 23:15

    LORDE: 19:30 – 20:45

    ELBOW: 17:45 – 18:45

    DIANA ROSS: 16:00 – 17:15

    HERBIE HANCOCK: 14:00 – 15:00
    FOALS: 22:30 – 23:45

    ST VINCENT: 20:30 – 21:30

    IDLES: 18:45 – 19:45

    SUPERGRASS: 17:15 – 18:15
    PET SHOP BOYS: 21:45 – 23:15

    YEARS & YEARS: 19:45 – 20:45
    PRIMAL SCREAM: 22:30 – 23:45
    CHARLI XCX: 21:30 – 22:45
    THE AVALANCHES: 19:45 – 20:45

    But on the other hand, that’s only because I listen to a lot of music from before my time - overall this does look like it’s been put together by someone born mid eighties?

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/glastonbury-festival-2022-stage-set-times-full-line-up-3236490

    I hope the TV coverage is better than recently for the Glasto. I like the line ups on the main stages,
    as I look down the list much to peak my interest.

    RUFUS WAINWRIGHT: 13:45 – 14:45
    KENDRICK LAMAR: 21:45 – 23:15

    LORDE: 19:30 – 20:45

    ELBOW: 17:45 – 18:45

    DIANA ROSS: 16:00 – 17:15

    HERBIE HANCOCK: 14:00 – 15:00
    FOALS: 22:30 – 23:45

    ST VINCENT: 20:30 – 21:30

    IDLES: 18:45 – 19:45

    SUPERGRASS: 17:15 – 18:15
    PET SHOP BOYS: 21:45 – 23:15

    YEARS & YEARS: 19:45 – 20:45
    PRIMAL SCREAM: 22:30 – 23:45
    CHARLI XCX: 21:30 – 22:45
    THE AVALANCHES: 19:45 – 20:45

    But on the other hand, that’s only because I listen to a lot of music from before my time - overall this does look like it’s been put together by someone born mid eighties?

    https://www.nme.com/news/music/glastonbury-festival-2022-stage-set-times-full-line-up-3236490

    it's pique not peak, and while i'm here, en masse and not on mass

    That lot leaves me cold. I thought Diana Ross was dead? the closest I have ever come to fame was talking to her on the phone. I'd pay £20 to hear Lorde for 75 minutes. Otherwise, what?
    Seems a long time to spend hearing one song.
This discussion has been closed.