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Starmer moving back in the next PM betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Scott_xP said:

    Time to reactivate the Sue Gray Report watch... https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1527224421353771009

    They need to fecking well get on with it. Perhaps it can be published about two days after the by-election results. That said, one day before might be useful
    Next week hopefully
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Scott_xP said:

    Time to reactivate the Sue Gray Report watch... https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1527224421353771009

    13th November elicited fines - wonder if the flat party is involved and wonder if the last tranche includes any further Boris fines that we should hear of today by rights.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    HYUFD said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    48% of Conservative voters have plans to celebrate the Jubilee (eg street parties, beacon lighting, attending the Buckingham Palace concert etc) but only 28% of Labour voters have plans

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526944316542881795?s=20&t=s0pg_dLQ3dIU8_DLzMDPmA
    Yes, interest here in Blue Wall territory is modest so far - some flags, an event or two. Many people plan to watch some of it on TV, but mostly people seem to just think it's be nice to have a long weekend off. Lots of goodwill - I know nobody who has a word to say against the Queen - but not much engagement.
    We noticed yesterday lots of Union Jacks here and I'm guessing there would have been lots more, but there are also a lot of shops and flag poles with Ukrainian flags up.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    No more FPNs for Johnson which seems surprising given what we know about those events .

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    Lol, you've been on netweather too?!
    Its a bit weird how many on PB also frequent netweather, but then obsessives gonna obsess...
    Weirdly, I am *genuinely* interested in weather and climate - probably because it affects my mood so much

    (I am a mildie)
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    HYUFD said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    48% of Conservative voters have plans to celebrate the Jubilee (eg street parties, beacon lighting, attending the Buckingham Palace concert etc) but only 28% of Labour voters have plans

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526944316542881795?s=20&t=s0pg_dLQ3dIU8_DLzMDPmA
    I suspect that is a somewhat twisted statistic. The demographic of the average conservative is weighted toward rural areas , particularly rural villages where they are more likely to have such events. There is loads going on in my village. TBH, I am quite surprised it is only 48% of Tories.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    48% of Conservative voters have plans to celebrate the Jubilee (eg street parties, beacon lighting, attending the Buckingham Palace concert etc) but only 28% of Labour voters have plans

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526944316542881795?s=20&t=s0pg_dLQ3dIU8_DLzMDPmA
    Yes, interest here in Blue Wall territory is modest so far - some flags, an event or two. Many people plan to watch some of it on TV, but mostly people seem to just think it's be nice to have a long weekend off. Lots of goodwill - I know nobody who has a word to say against the Queen - but not much engagement.
    17 million did watch the 2012 Jubilee concert on TV however, so comparing those ratings will be interesting for the Saturday night concert at the Palace

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/jun/06/queens-diamond-jubilee-tv-ratings
    I expect similar viewing numbers for that event
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,653
    SUE GRAY HERE WE GO
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    nico679 said:

    No more FPNs for Johnson which seems surprising given what we know about those events .

    Not sure that’s been confirmed yet..
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    Does that mean Boris has only got one or is there one in a final batch. Seems odd as he got one for his least offensive breach.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Just ventured over to netweather.
    It's like PB, but in a foreign language.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Eabhal said:

    SUE GRAY HERE WE GO

    Next week hopefully but if Boris receives just one FPN then that will be a big surprise
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    Lol, you've been on netweather too?!
    Its a bit weird how many on PB also frequent netweather, but then obsessives gonna obsess...
    Weirdly, I am *genuinely* interested in weather and climate - probably because it affects my mood so much

    (I am a mildie)
    Damn you, cold weather rules in winter!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    JJ, who is mostly it seems to me a decent person, claimed yesterday that homophobia and racism were far reduced yesterday. He cited examples of footballers and others harassed in the past for being gay and that now the situation is much better.

    Well, yesterday's leading trend on twitter in the whole world was the hashtag 'we are all idrissa' in support of 's PSGSenegalese star Idrissa Gueye who refused to wear a shirt carrying the rainbow symbol.

    Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal and in Qatar, who own PSG.

    Two compatriots of Gueye who play in Britain tweeted in support of him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

    I am afraid I see little or nothing in this country at the moment to damp down the culture wars and hatred being, I believe, deliberately now fanned into flame by Boris Johnson's appeal to a certain kind of red wall demographic.

    It's godawful.

    So your bewailing of homophobia in Britain is based upon the tweeting of two Senegalese footballers ?
    FFS.

    This is the kind of stupid response that is, presumably, intended to wind me up.
    Any comment that begins, unironically, “I am a seer” is going to get some pushback because it is flatulently pompous

    Unless, of course, you are trying to wind people up…
    Funnily enough, when I saw a post starting with "I am a seer", I assumed it was going to be from you, Leon.
    Quite possibly, but I would have been at least half-joking, if so

    Anyway, good morning to all, bots, trolls, misogynist Cryptoids and Surrey based Buddhists alike, from a cool but sunny Meteora. Quite a place





    I think I was very mean to you the other day @Leon, for which I apologise. Great pictures.
    Thanks. But no need to apologise. I can’t remember what you said - so it can’t have been that bad?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Scott_xP said:

    Time to reactivate the Sue Gray Report watch... https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1527224421353771009

    So Boris's only FPN was for 8 minutes in the Cabinet Office?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    And puns. Don't forget the puns.
    I never get involved in such nonsense.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    Leon said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    JJ, who is mostly it seems to me a decent person, claimed yesterday that homophobia and racism were far reduced yesterday. He cited examples of footballers and others harassed in the past for being gay and that now the situation is much better.

    Well, yesterday's leading trend on twitter in the whole world was the hashtag 'we are all idrissa' in support of 's PSGSenegalese star Idrissa Gueye who refused to wear a shirt carrying the rainbow symbol.

    Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal and in Qatar, who own PSG.

    Two compatriots of Gueye who play in Britain tweeted in support of him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

    I am afraid I see little or nothing in this country at the moment to damp down the culture wars and hatred being, I believe, deliberately now fanned into flame by Boris Johnson's appeal to a certain kind of red wall demographic.

    It's godawful.

    So your bewailing of homophobia in Britain is based upon the tweeting of two Senegalese footballers ?
    FFS.

    This is the kind of stupid response that is, presumably, intended to wind me up.
    Any comment that begins, unironically, “I am a seer” is going to get some pushback because it is flatulently pompous

    Unless, of course, you are trying to wind people up…
    Funnily enough, when I saw a post starting with "I am a seer", I assumed it was going to be from you, Leon.
    Quite possibly, but I would have been at least half-joking, if so

    Anyway, good morning to all, bots, trolls, misogynist Cryptoids and Surrey based Buddhists alike, from a cool but sunny Meteora. Quite a place





    Are you anywhere near your 90 day limit within 180 days yet to travel within the EU? Hope you are keeping track. You don't want to be deported and banned from travelling there.
    Seeing as I’ve spent most of the last month in the USA and Turkey, no
    Its a rolling 90 day period so worth keeping tabs.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Eabhal said:

    SUE GRAY HERE WE GO

    Next week hopefully but if Boris receives just one FPN then that will be a big surprise
    Not least because the one he received seemed really borderline. I was expecting that to be the herald of several more.
  • MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    nico679 said:

    No more FPNs for Johnson which seems surprising given what we know about those events .

    Downing Street tight lipped. I suspect there's another one issued or theyd be out proclaiming it from the rooftops
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    Snap
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Applicant said:

    Eabhal said:

    SUE GRAY HERE WE GO

    Next week hopefully but if Boris receives just one FPN then that will be a big surprise
    Not least because the one he received seemed really borderline. I was expecting that to be the herald of several more.
    I thought that one was harsh and he’d more likely receive one or more for the other events which seemed on the face of it more serious .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Scott_xP said:

    Time to reactivate the Sue Gray Report watch... https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1527224421353771009

    So Boris's only FPN was for 8 minutes in the Cabinet Office?
    Not sure that it has been confirmed yet that he has received just one FPN
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    He asked for 750 other cakes to be taken into consideration
    Were those the ones he scoffed himself?
  • MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    He asked for 750 other cakes to be taken into consideration
    Well have you seen the shape of him?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Chris Mason
    @ChrisMasonBBC
    ·
    3m
    The Prime Minister has not been notified of any additional Fixed Penalty Notices, I'm told -- but the police statement acknowledges some have not yet been sent out to those who'll receive them
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited May 2022
    I suppose the intrigue is that they’ve issued fines for the 13 November 2020 event in no 11.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited May 2022

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    I would a wait and not assume anything at this stage
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    The Prime Minister has not been notified of any additional Fixed Penalty Notices, I'm told -- but the police statement acknowledges some have not yet been sent out to those who'll receive them
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61508110
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    He asked for 750 other cakes to be taken into consideration
    Were those the ones he scoffed himself?
    For breakfast
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    28 people in Partygate received between two and five fines - Met police
    https://twitter.com/Fhamiltontimes/status/1527229407886188545
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    mwadams said:



    A 25 year old today has only known of the Queen as an old woman. If her parents were 25 when they had her, *they* were maybe just old enough to remember the Silver Jubilee.

    The Silver Jubilee is my first distinct memory of Ingerland. We had been living in Belgique for six years at that point but we came to Yorkshire that summer to visit family. My 9 year old largely francophone consciousness was utterly baffled by all the flags and bunting. I thought that's just how it always was.

    Now, with the tory flegfest it almost is.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Mason says no Boris FPN but police 'haven't sent them all out yet '
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,324

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    And puns. Don't forget the puns.
    And the advice on pizza toppings.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Mason says no Boris FPN but police 'haven't sent them all out yet '

    They had sent out 100 a few days ago so it will be the final 26 that could be interesting
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Mason says no Boris FPN but police 'haven't sent them all out yet '

    Is Mr. Mason building a case against him
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Like waiting for Godot...


    Anushka Asthana
    @AnushkaAsthana
    ·
    22m
    Sources tell me Sue Gray will aim to publish her report shortly- but that could be a week or more as they will need to know from the police that they can go ahead, then she’ll finalise her report

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1527225299343114240
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Mason says no Boris FPN but police 'haven't sent them all out yet '

    So it turns out Mr Johnson was guilty of nothing more than being ambushed by cake.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Like waiting for Godot...


    Anushka Asthana
    @AnushkaAsthana
    ·
    22m
    Sources tell me Sue Gray will aim to publish her report shortly- but that could be a week or more as they will need to know from the police that they can go ahead, then she’ll finalise her report

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1527225299343114240

    The Met police have finished what more is needed . Perhaps waiting to the Queens jubilee celebrations in hope that the media will be obsessed with that !

  • After all the brouhaha earlier this year this feels very anticlimactic. Surely there has to be more to be fined over than having a slice of birthday cake at lunchtime at work. Is that seriously it?

    Curious what pictures are going to be released. So far we've got pictures of socially distanced drinks in the garden, a lame Zoom quiz, and drinking a bottle of beer with a Korma for dinner.

    Hardly raves and snorting coke off hookers is it? Hardly matches the hedonistic reputation of Boris or the notion of a party.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Mason says no Boris FPN but police 'haven't sent them all out yet '

    So it turns out Mr Johnson was guilty of nothing more than being ambushed by cake.
    Unless he receives another from this last tranche, which would appear to possibly include ABBAgate
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    HYUFD said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    48% of Conservative voters have plans to celebrate the Jubilee (eg street parties, beacon lighting, attending the Buckingham Palace concert etc) but only 28% of Labour voters have plans

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526944316542881795?s=20&t=s0pg_dLQ3dIU8_DLzMDPmA
    I suspect that is a somewhat twisted statistic. The demographic of the average conservative is weighted toward rural areas , particularly rural villages where they are more likely to have such events. There is loads going on in my village. TBH, I am quite surprised it is only 48% of Tories.
    The locals round here - LibDem Middle Class* - are getting the council to pedestrianise the streets, have food and drink with the neighbours.

    Not a bunch of Ultra Royalists - more "it's an excuse for a summer party. Meet new neighbour (2 years of COVID). Plus it is outside, for those a bit sensitive about crowed spaces, still".

    *Not necessarily LibDem voters, but their values are 100% match for LibDemmery. Who was it who did the adverts pointing out that if all the people who wanted LibDem policies voted LibDem, they would be in government?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So the PM has received precisely one FPN, becuase his wife turned up to a business meeting with a birthday cake.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    How have we come from Maggie Thatcher to "Inflation's nothing to do with me, guv"?

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1527196392808128512
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    How have we come from Maggie Thatcher to "Inflation's nothing to do with me, guv"?

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1527196392808128512

    Gordon Brown set up the MPC?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    I suppose the questionnaires were completed honestly? And there was no collusion?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Tom Harwood
    @tomhfh
    ·
    11m
    We don’t know yet the Met don’t actually issue FPNs, they make recommendations to the ACRO Criminal Records Office - who issue the fines.

    So there is a delay between the Met making the recommendation, ACRO sending the fine, and then us knowing who got one.

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1527231063499710465
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Reflecting on the almost stabbing earlier.
    Was really impressed with potential stabee. When the girlfriend got between them and gave him the space to get up, he could have done some serious damage. He was eight inches taller, about six stone heavier, twice as fit and 100 times more sober.
    But he didn't. Just kept repeating. "It wasn't me. I didn't do that. You've got the wrong blerk mate. Go home before you regret it."
    Even as stabby bloke threatened him, his family and his mates.
    Not sure I could have been that cool in the circumstances.

    Why does that impress you...to my mind kick the fucker into the middle of next week and one less idiot in the world. You know stabby guy is going to do it again and next time may well kill someone.
    Fuck it: why bother with courts or justice, you just get your boot in.
    The guy was trying to stab him in this case. I have no problem if he defends himself and an idiot happens to end up bleeding out. Its not like he was not guilty
    That's not what you said.

    If someone is attacked and defends themselves, then one should have a very wide degree of latitude. But that's not what you said.

    You specifically said "kick the fucker into the middle of next week and one less idiot in the world". You argued for killing the guy, whether it was needed to defend oneself or not.

    Don't try and weasel word your way out of your original statement.
    Who was weaselling...guy got all stabby...guy dies absolutely no loss. No bones about that whatsoever. The courts wont punish him and he will just do it again so take him off the streets before he succeeds
  • nico679 said:

    Like waiting for Godot...


    Anushka Asthana
    @AnushkaAsthana
    ·
    22m
    Sources tell me Sue Gray will aim to publish her report shortly- but that could be a week or more as they will need to know from the police that they can go ahead, then she’ll finalise her report

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1527225299343114240

    The Met police have finished what more is needed . Perhaps waiting to the Queens jubilee celebrations in hope that the media will be obsessed with that !

    I doubt they'll want too long a grass for this to be kicked into, presumably they'll want the Sue Gray report to be released before the Police investigation into Keir Starmer's beergate is concluded.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    Sandpit said:

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So the PM has received precisely one FPN, becuase his wife turned up to a business meeting with a birthday cake.
    Well, we don’t actually know yet.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy as Britain was a net payer into EU funds regional aid as you put it was simply the EU giving Britain some of the funds it had already paid them back

    The Good News is that now we have left the EU we have largely stopped this kind of communism. Instead of the inefficiency of paying money to Brussels who then distribute it to the areas we left poor, we simply don't pay the money to Brussels, and don't pay it to the regions either.

    Huzzah!
    So much you neglect to mention such as those eu funds had to be matched like for like and were generally spent on shite no one in the regions wanted or benefitted that much from...take cornwal where I come from....we got the eden project....a lot of money went to london architects, german manufacturers...what did cornish people actually get a few min wage jobs and even more traffic chaos.
    I'm sorry to get all technical, but there were hundreds of different types of EU "aid", and only some of them involved a requirement for matching funding from Central government. (And, of course - and this used to make me gag - you could usually get the requirement for matching removed if you were prepared to plaster your project with posters with the EU flag on.)
    Even if funding didnt get matched doesnt change a lot of the projects did little to benefit locals. now if they had paid to extend the m5 past plymouth that would have been a plus. Instead they gave us the eden project which made and continues to make a lot of money little of which benefits cornwall as most of the construction money went elsewhere as does most of the profit it makes
    You've got a bit of a thing about the Eden Project, haven't you!
    Yes as a concept I love the eden project...as an example of helping the cornish people its shit
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    MET Police announce the end of their investigations into covid breaches in Downing Street and Whitehall under Operation Hillman with 126 FPN referrals

    53 men and 73 women received FPN's, some more than one

    Now for Sue Grey and betting will Boris survive in office

    So does that mean that Boris's only FPN was for having a slice of birthday cake?

    That seemed very unlikely. Of all the events reported upon that seemed by far the least serious, so if that's the only one he's been personally fined over, that seems . . . odd.
    I suppose the questionnaires were completed honestly? And there was no collusion?
    Well, Plebgate showed that the police think that an "eye witness" sending a copy of the statement written by a police officer was A OK.

    Said statement was allegedly written without the Police Officer and the eye witness ever meeting.

    The fact that the eye witness turned out to be a retried police officer who was proved not to have been in London on the day in question was completely irrelevant.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Reflecting on the almost stabbing earlier.
    Was really impressed with potential stabee. When the girlfriend got between them and gave him the space to get up, he could have done some serious damage. He was eight inches taller, about six stone heavier, twice as fit and 100 times more sober.
    But he didn't. Just kept repeating. "It wasn't me. I didn't do that. You've got the wrong blerk mate. Go home before you regret it."
    Even as stabby bloke threatened him, his family and his mates.
    Not sure I could have been that cool in the circumstances.

    Why does that impress you...to my mind kick the fucker into the middle of next week and one less idiot in the world. You know stabby guy is going to do it again and next time may well kill someone.
    Fuck it: why bother with courts or justice, you just get your boot in.
    The guy was trying to stab him in this case. I have no problem if he defends himself and an idiot happens to end up bleeding out. Its not like he was not guilty
    That's not what you said.

    If someone is attacked and defends themselves, then one should have a very wide degree of latitude. But that's not what you said.

    You specifically said "kick the fucker into the middle of next week and one less idiot in the world". You argued for killing the guy, whether it was needed to defend oneself or not.

    Don't try and weasel word your way out of your original statement.
    Who was weaselling...guy got all stabby...guy dies absolutely no loss. No bones about that whatsoever. The courts wont punish him and he will just do it again so take him off the streets before he succeeds
    What about guy's family?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379


    Tom Harwood
    @tomhfh
    ·
    11m
    We don’t know yet the Met don’t actually issue FPNs, they make recommendations to the ACRO Criminal Records Office - who issue the fines.

    So there is a delay between the Met making the recommendation, ACRO sending the fine, and then us knowing who got one.

    https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1527231063499710465

    OK, this makes a lot of sense - except that last time the first we heard was when the FPNs were issued.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    How have we come from Maggie Thatcher to "Inflation's nothing to do with me, guv"?

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1527196392808128512

    That was pretty much the attitude of Wilson and Heath and Callaghan. Only Thatcher and Major got inflation down.

    Though Thatcher did not have the aftermath of a pandemic and Russian war with Ukraine to deal with
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy as Britain was a net payer into EU funds regional aid as you put it was simply the EU giving Britain some of the funds it had already paid them back

    The Good News is that now we have left the EU we have largely stopped this kind of communism. Instead of the inefficiency of paying money to Brussels who then distribute it to the areas we left poor, we simply don't pay the money to Brussels, and don't pay it to the regions either.

    Huzzah!
    So much you neglect to mention such as those eu funds had to be matched like for like and were generally spent on shite no one in the regions wanted or benefitted that much from...take cornwal where I come from....we got the eden project....a lot of money went to london architects, german manufacturers...what did cornish people actually get a few min wage jobs and even more traffic chaos.
    Quite right. People voted for less money. Fewer roads. A reduction in jobs.
    Cornwall got no more roads what it got was more cars....I think local jobs amounted to 400 or so min wage jobs on a seasonal basis...hardly a good advert for 80 odd million funding might get our moneys worth for cornwall after a 100 years or so I guess on a 9£ an hour basis.

    There were many things you could do with 80 mill that would have benefitted actual cornish people more than the eden project. Even though I think the eden project was a wonderful thing in and of itself....dont try and show it as a net benefit to cornish people was my point. I suspect most eu projects that got funding are similar
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    nico679 said:

    Like waiting for Godot...


    Anushka Asthana
    @AnushkaAsthana
    ·
    22m
    Sources tell me Sue Gray will aim to publish her report shortly- but that could be a week or more as they will need to know from the police that they can go ahead, then she’ll finalise her report

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1527225299343114240

    The Met police have finished what more is needed . Perhaps waiting to the Queens jubilee celebrations in hope that the media will be obsessed with that !

    I doubt they'll want too long a grass for this to be kicked into, presumably they'll want the Sue Gray report to be released before the Police investigation into Keir Starmer's beergate is concluded.
    Good point . Hopefully that comes out next week . Beergate really shouldn’t take too long given it’s just one event Durham police are looking into.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    48% of Conservative voters have plans to celebrate the Jubilee (eg street parties, beacon lighting, attending the Buckingham Palace concert etc) but only 28% of Labour voters have plans

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526944316542881795?s=20&t=s0pg_dLQ3dIU8_DLzMDPmA
    I suspect that is a somewhat twisted statistic. The demographic of the average conservative is weighted toward rural areas , particularly rural villages where they are more likely to have such events. There is loads going on in my village. TBH, I am quite surprised it is only 48% of Tories.
    The question only relates to actually doing an event ie having a stretch party, going to a beacon lighting or concert etc. It does not include merely watching the concert and parade on TV.

    There are plenty of cities and suburbs that will also offer such events but we know Tories and to a lesser extent LDs are far more monarchist than Labour supporters so the figures are no surprise
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249

    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to speculate about the MP being investigated for alleged sexual offences.

    But am I the only one a touch troubled by the order to stay away from Parliament during the investigation?

    If there is a concern about interference with witnesses or evidence, that is one thing. But in the absence of that, is this really acceptable? First, it risks identifying the person or putting others under unfair suspicion. Second, why should someone who has not even been charged be prevented from doing a key part of their job? A person is innocent until proven guilty. Keeping someone away even when not charged is implying that they are somehow in the wrong and when they do come back, assuming no charge, that will hang round them.

    I realise there are other considerations. But lots of people remain free while investigations carry on and we do not expect them to stop working and be shunned by society.

    I do worry that we are in danger of denuding the very precious idea of "innocence until proven guilty" of any real meaning and creating a whole new set of unfairnesses. It is precisely because sexual offence allegations are so serious that we should be wary of a "judgment first, trial later" approach.

    Or am I alone in worrying about this?

    You are not alone - I find it very troubling indeed. Until charged everything should be done to avoid jigsaw identification. And he has a job to do to represent his constituents. Does he get to vote? Take part in committees?
    I can understand that there might be an issue if the person accusing him is also at parliament, but this is not the way to handle it.

    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Innocent until proven guilty is true, but glib. Taken to its logical extreme, nobody would ever be remanded in custody until their trial has concluded. Not sure the GBP would be happy about that - unconvicted but suspected terrorist bombers released on bail?

    In the case of the MP, however, the issue is that the police/CPS should get on with it and decide whether to prosecute. If they do, then I think it's legitimate to exclude him from the HoC.
    That seems about right to me. If he's merely under possible suspicion, on the basis of who knows what evidence, I think he should proceed as normal. If he's charged, then I think he should stop attending, and there's a reasonable question whether the voters of X are well-served if he's excluded for months or perhaps a year before the case comes to trial. On the other hand, as he's presumed innocent unless proved otherwise, is it fair to ask him to give up his career? In practice, I think he'd probably feel it was impossible to carry on in that situation, but if acquitted should perhaps be entitled to some sort of compensation?

    Telling the police to get on with it has its difficulties too. What if they need to make a crucial interview before deciding, and the interviewee is unavailable till next month? Perhaps they shouldn't even announce arrests until a charge is laid - after all, what public benefit is there to knowing that unknown person X has been accused of something?
    It’s a political decision not a legal one. If the Tories didn’t ask him not to attend then you can bet that a number of anti Tories, assuming the man is charged in due course, will try to paint the party as not doing anything “when they knew about these charges for months/years”

    Those attackers don’t care about justice
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Sorry. Not sorry.


    Developed by this bloke. A despised humanities grad, no doubt.

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    And puns. Don't forget the puns.
    He’s not a glutton for punishment… just a glutton
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
  • Sorry. Not sorry.


    Developed by this bloke. A despised humanities grad, no doubt.

    The 🦄 has always been the only correct option of course.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Sorry. Not sorry.


    Developed by this bloke. A despised humanities grad, no doubt.

    Given he's a professor of Political Science and Law, I find it unlikely he found the time to do a humanities degree.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Roger said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
    It seems to endure down the centuries though, doesn't it? I blame the Norman conquest. Bloody Europeans, coming over here and installing a new elite.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Boris Johnson absolutely has to resign for just how lame and pathetic his "parties" are.

    He's not supposed to be the straightlaced guy he's supposed to be this notoriously hedonistic and flamboyant party animal that has flouted the rules. Six months of civil servant and Police investigations trawling through two years of events and all we have to show for it is singing Happy Birthday around a cake?

    That's disappointing. We get more drama and entertainment from @leon in any single random evening than that.

    There will be Alanis Morisette levels of irony, if the first person to resign from all this triviality is Sir Keir - not because he did anything particularly bad, but because he attacked every minor indiscretion of his opponent while failing to be whiter than white himself.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    48% of Conservative voters have plans to celebrate the Jubilee (eg street parties, beacon lighting, attending the Buckingham Palace concert etc) but only 28% of Labour voters have plans

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1526944316542881795?s=20&t=s0pg_dLQ3dIU8_DLzMDPmA
    I suspect that is a somewhat twisted statistic. The demographic of the average conservative is weighted toward rural areas , particularly rural villages where they are more likely to have such events. There is loads going on in my village. TBH, I am quite surprised it is only 48% of Tories.
    The question only relates to actually doing an event ie having a stretch party, going to a beacon lighting or concert etc. It does not include merely watching the concert and parade on TV.

    There are plenty of cities and suburbs that will also offer such events but we know Tories and to a lesser extent LDs are far more monarchist than Labour supporters so the figures are no surprise
    Are LDs more monarchist than Lab? Genuine question as I have no idea. I think a lot of people don't feel strongly one way or the other and are happy to have a good party. I know that is my position. In principle I guess I am a Republican but I have no great desire to get rid of the monarchy as it stands. Most royal events I ignore, but I did take part in the silver jubilee celebrations (on the winning team of a pram race pub crawl) and happy to take part in any party for any excuse.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    HYUFD said:


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    How have we come from Maggie Thatcher to "Inflation's nothing to do with me, guv"?

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1527196392808128512

    That was pretty much the attitude of Wilson and Heath and Callaghan. Only Thatcher and Major got inflation down.

    Though Thatcher did not have the aftermath of a pandemic and Russian war with Ukraine to deal with
    The Oil Price Rises in the 70's were a traumatic event, with stock markets collapsing and savings being wiped out.
    Inflation was falling when Callaghan left office; Thatcher was 'lucky' in that things were stabilising when she came to office, and N. Sea oil was really flowing.

    I was trying to run a business at the time and the effect of high interest rates and high inflation were shattering.
  • northern_monkey how to create a 🦄 in 3 easy steps.

    Step 1: Leave Single Market
    Step 2: Don't enforce border in Irish Sea
    Step 3: Don't enforce land border

    Voila: 🦄 created. Move on.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Roger said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
    Downton Abbey is pure Tory shite from beginning to end, although it has good music.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    dixiedean said:

    Sorry. Not sorry.


    Developed by this bloke. A despised humanities grad, no doubt.

    Given he's a professor of Political Science and Law, I find it unlikely he found the time to do a humanities degree.
    Haha, good point! I'm a dumbass.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882

    Sorry. Not sorry.


    Developed by this bloke. A despised humanities grad, no doubt.

    Your comment, though tongue in cheek, reminded me that, it seems to me at least, there is a bit of a trend in Humanities based scholarship of adapting more traditional scientific methods at the moment. Those academics who have adopted it, those who are interested in examining a question rather than engineering an answer, seem to be doing rather well. It does not yet appear to have reached the social sciences at my former institution, however.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    Lol, you've been on netweather too?!
    Its a bit weird how many on PB also frequent netweather, but then obsessives gonna obsess...
    Weirdly, I am *genuinely* interested in weather and climate - probably because it affects my mood so much

    (I am a mildie)
    You are no true mildie- you said you voted coldie once. Ideological meteorological purity is all that matters.
    I’m launching a new movement to call for compromise between the Coldies and the Mildies. Why can’t you all be more constructive?

    I’m thinking of naming it the Wets…
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    edited May 2022
    nico679 said:

    nico679 said:

    Like waiting for Godot...


    Anushka Asthana
    @AnushkaAsthana
    ·
    22m
    Sources tell me Sue Gray will aim to publish her report shortly- but that could be a week or more as they will need to know from the police that they can go ahead, then she’ll finalise her report

    https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1527225299343114240

    The Met police have finished what more is needed . Perhaps waiting to the Queens jubilee celebrations in hope that the media will be obsessed with that !

    I doubt they'll want too long a grass for this to be kicked into, presumably they'll want the Sue Gray report to be released before the Police investigation into Keir Starmer's beergate is concluded.
    Good point . Hopefully that comes out next week . Beergate really shouldn’t take too long given it’s just one event Durham police are looking into.
    Seems one of the witnesses is away and the Durham Police expect the report to be concluded by the first week in July
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    No more fines for Carrie according to Sky
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Looks like Big Dog is safe until the GE now.

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Bizarrely the Met police are saying no further action regarding Carrie Johnson which would suggest that people at the alleged party haven’t received any FPNs , that would I think mean Johnson won’t receive one so the 13 November fines must relate to the leaving do in no 10 . Was Johnson at that ?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249

    Sorry. Not sorry.


    Developed by this bloke. A despised humanities grad, no doubt.

    So completely unbiased then given the Jean Monnet chair?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    HYUFD said:


    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    2h
    How have we come from Maggie Thatcher to "Inflation's nothing to do with me, guv"?

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1527196392808128512

    That was pretty much the attitude of Wilson and Heath and Callaghan. Only Thatcher and Major got inflation down.

    Though Thatcher did not have the aftermath of a pandemic and Russian war with Ukraine to deal with
    The Oil Price Rises in the 70's were a traumatic event, with stock markets collapsing and savings being wiped out.
    Inflation was falling when Callaghan left office; Thatcher was 'lucky' in that things were stabilising when she came to office, and N. Sea oil was really flowing.

    I was trying to run a business at the time and the effect of high interest rates and high inflation were shattering.
    I remember the petrol rationing books issued in the 70s (73 I think). It was definitely serious stuff.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    edited May 2022

    Roger said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
    It seems to endure down the centuries though, doesn't it? I blame the Norman conquest. Bloody Europeans, coming over here and installing a new elite.
    It's one of the big 'what if's isn't it. If Harold Godwinson had lost at Stamford Bridge (the one near York) would William the Bastard have split what we now know as England with Harald Hardrada and Tostig Godwinson and would the Normans have subsequently spent their time fighting across the Trent or Humber as opposed to crossing Offas Dyke?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249
    Roger said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
    Julian Fellowes is a crashing snob
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Roger said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
    Until we get rid of this "class ridden nonsense", British people won't make decent servants. Or waiters in a fine restaurants.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    Looks like Big Dog is safe until the GE now.

    There is an irony if Boris does only receive one FPN against all the odds, then Starmer and Rayner resign over Durham
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,249

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place."

    is more true than is comfortable. We should probably all rein in the testosterone a bit.

    It's positively decorous compared to other online communities in which I participate. (Cars, motorbikes, football)

    The OM forum is particularly vibrant where sincerely intended death threats are not unknown.
    It is clear that @NickPalmer has not, say, gone on Twitter and talked about trans issues for 40 seconds. Nor has he ventured onto a UK weather forum and vocally hoped for a mild spell of weather during winter

    The internet is designed to create loud and bitter rancour over any issue, the same way an Ibizan disco is meant to be loud. I come on here for blissful tranquility and agreeable chat
    Lol, you've been on netweather too?!
    Its a bit weird how many on PB also frequent netweather, but then obsessives gonna obsess...
    Weirdly, I am *genuinely* interested in weather and climate - probably because it affects my mood so much

    (I am a mildie)
    You are no true mildie- you said you voted coldie once. Ideological meteorological purity is all that matters.
    I’m launching a new movement to call for compromise between the Coldies and the Mildies. Why can’t you all be more constructive?

    I’m thinking of naming it the Wets…
    Damn

    I should have called it a new Front not a movement. My mind must be clouded this morning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to speculate about the MP being investigated for alleged sexual offences.

    But am I the only one a touch troubled by the order to stay away from Parliament during the investigation?

    If there is a concern about interference with witnesses or evidence, that is one thing. But in the absence of that, is this really acceptable? First, it risks identifying the person or putting others under unfair suspicion. Second, why should someone who has not even been charged be prevented from doing a key part of their job? A person is innocent until proven guilty. Keeping someone away even when not charged is implying that they are somehow in the wrong and when they do come back, assuming no charge, that will hang round them.

    I realise there are other considerations. But lots of people remain free while investigations carry on and we do not expect them to stop working and be shunned by society.

    I do worry that we are in danger of denuding the very precious idea of "innocence until proven guilty" of any real meaning and creating a whole new set of unfairnesses. It is precisely because sexual offence allegations are so serious that we should be wary of a "judgment first, trial later" approach.

    Or am I alone in worrying about this?

    Would you be similarly troubled if it were, say, a teacher ?

    I agree that it's not a simple issue, but the procedures in teaching for suspending on full pay, without prejudice to any criminal proceedings, are pretty well understood.

    If it's a baseless accusation, then there's no real way for the accused not to be harmed by it, and there ought to be some way of recognising that and providing recompense. But allowing someone in a fiduciary position - which obviously includes MPs - to continue as though they hadn't been arrested in connection with such a charge, is simply unrealistic.

    And unless the MP is publicly identified, then there is a potential safeguarding problem with (eg) vulnerable constituents.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .
    Sandpit said:

    Boris Johnson absolutely has to resign for just how lame and pathetic his "parties" are.

    He's not supposed to be the straightlaced guy he's supposed to be this notoriously hedonistic and flamboyant party animal that has flouted the rules. Six months of civil servant and Police investigations trawling through two years of events and all we have to show for it is singing Happy Birthday around a cake?

    That's disappointing. We get more drama and entertainment from @leon in any single random evening than that.

    There will be Alanis Morisette levels of irony, if the first person to resign from all this triviality is Sir Keir - not because he did anything particularly bad, but because he attacked every minor indiscretion of his opponent while failing to be whiter than white himself.
    Not really Alanis-level, as it would actually be ironic...!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Licence to Steal?

    The Daily Mail will go all hate-filled about this but what a tragic state this country is descending into.

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-police-officers-should-use-discretion-over-desperate-shoplifters-says-chief-inspector-12616359

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
    That has absolutely nothing to do with my post
    I would suggest it has a great deal to do with the constant theme of your posts
    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    I don't agree with everything you say but I do think you get unwarranted stick on here. VPNgate, for example. It has more than a whiff of misogyny in my opinion.

    I salute your indefatigability!
    To be fair, she also gives out unwarranted stick. I see little behaviour towards her that she does not give out herself.
    About three months ago I realised that the only way for a female to exist on here, in my opinion, is to fight.

    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place.

    You might ask, why do I bother? Well it's because politics really interests me and I like betting on it, and offering betting tips on it.

    I wish I could be a lot more gentle, which is what I'm like in real life, but I would be mowed down on here I'm afraid.

    No need to reply to this please. It's a point of view. You may not agree with it but it won't change (in this instance) how I feel.
    It really is not necessary to fight to survive on here. I have been here for quite some time and have not felt it necessary to get into personal fights with others. And, frankly, personal disputes are to my mind exceedingly tedious - along with most sport, FI and the culinary uses of pineapple in Italian cuisine. But it is very easy to scroll past these outpourings.
    I think Eleanor Roosevelt summed it up best:

    Great Minds Discuss Ideas.
    Average Minds Discuss Events.
    Small Minds Discuss People.
    A quote which has always seemed both pompous and snobbish.
    Perhaps unfairly ?

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Foxy as Britain was a net payer into EU funds regional aid as you put it was simply the EU giving Britain some of the funds it had already paid them back

    The Good News is that now we have left the EU we have largely stopped this kind of communism. Instead of the inefficiency of paying money to Brussels who then distribute it to the areas we left poor, we simply don't pay the money to Brussels, and don't pay it to the regions either.

    Huzzah!
    So much you neglect to mention such as those eu funds had to be matched like for like and were generally spent on shite no one in the regions wanted or benefitted that much from...take cornwal where I come from....we got the eden project....a lot of money went to london architects, german manufacturers...what did cornish people actually get a few min wage jobs and even more traffic chaos.
    Quite right. People voted for less money. Fewer roads. A reduction in jobs.
    Cornwall got no more roads what it got was more cars....I think local jobs amounted to 400 or so min wage jobs on a seasonal basis...hardly a good advert for 80 odd million funding might get our moneys worth for cornwall after a 100 years or so I guess on a 9£ an hour basis.

    There were many things you could do with 80 mill that would have benefitted actual cornish people more than the eden project. Even though I think the eden project was a wonderful thing in and of itself....dont try and show it as a net benefit to cornish people was my point. I suspect most eu projects that got funding are similar
    The Eden Project, it seems to me, is a classic of the idea of creating an attraction without tying it in to the local area in anyway. It's as if it was dropped from space....

    The Millenium Dome in London was similar. It was a complete accident (and one bitterly fought against by Mandelson et el) that it turned into a brilliantly successful concert venue.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    In yet more “the world is better that it’s even been” news, MIT have awarded their annual $100k innovation award to a small-scale water purification device, which runs at low pressures and from a solar panel. It’s smaller, cheaper, and easier to maintain than current reverse-osmosis desalination technology.

    https://www.vice.com/en/article/k7wdwv/this-portable-solar-powered-device-purifies-seawater-on-demand
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Applicant said:

    .

    Sandpit said:

    Boris Johnson absolutely has to resign for just how lame and pathetic his "parties" are.

    He's not supposed to be the straightlaced guy he's supposed to be this notoriously hedonistic and flamboyant party animal that has flouted the rules. Six months of civil servant and Police investigations trawling through two years of events and all we have to show for it is singing Happy Birthday around a cake?

    That's disappointing. We get more drama and entertainment from @leon in any single random evening than that.

    There will be Alanis Morisette levels of irony, if the first person to resign from all this triviality is Sir Keir - not because he did anything particularly bad, but because he attacked every minor indiscretion of his opponent while failing to be whiter than white himself.
    Not really Alanis-level, as it would actually be ironic...!
    Greased piglet time again, eh?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited May 2022

    Boris Johnson absolutely has to resign for just how lame and pathetic his "parties" are.

    He's not supposed to be the straightlaced guy he's supposed to be this notoriously hedonistic and flamboyant party animal that has flouted the rules. Six months of civil servant and Police investigations trawling through two years of events and all we have to show for it is singing Happy Birthday around a cake?

    That's disappointing. We get more drama and entertainment from @leon in any single random evening than that.

    This was actually mentioned at the time. Boris is, apparently, NOT a party animal. As you would expect with a 57 year old man with young kids and a fairly pressurised job

    He just wants to chill out with a glass of vino. He doesn’t want to do this stuff. It’s Carrie who is the party goer. And this is not some misogynist cherchez La femme - she’s in her 30s and highly social and extrovert by all accounts. It would be odd if she hated socialising

    So It makes sense Boris hasn’t been fined a billion times.

    Same goes for Starmer. He’s nearly 60. I very much doubt he wants to dance the night away during lockdowns



  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do not wish to speculate about the MP being investigated for alleged sexual offences.

    But am I the only one a touch troubled by the order to stay away from Parliament during the investigation?

    If there is a concern about interference with witnesses or evidence, that is one thing. But in the absence of that, is this really acceptable? First, it risks identifying the person or putting others under unfair suspicion. Second, why should someone who has not even been charged be prevented from doing a key part of their job? A person is innocent until proven guilty. Keeping someone away even when not charged is implying that they are somehow in the wrong and when they do come back, assuming no charge, that will hang round them.

    I realise there are other considerations. But lots of people remain free while investigations carry on and we do not expect them to stop working and be shunned by society.

    I do worry that we are in danger of denuding the very precious idea of "innocence until proven guilty" of any real meaning and creating a whole new set of unfairnesses. It is precisely because sexual offence allegations are so serious that we should be wary of a "judgment first, trial later" approach.

    Or am I alone in worrying about this?

    Would you be similarly troubled if it were, say, a teacher ?

    I agree that it's not a simple issue, but the procedures in teaching for suspending on full pay, without prejudice to any criminal proceedings, are pretty well understood.

    If it's a baseless accusation, then there's no real way for the accused not to be harmed by it, and there ought to be some way of recognising that and providing recompense. But allowing someone in a fiduciary position - which obviously includes MPs - to continue as though they hadn't been arrested in connection with such a charge, is simply unrealistic.

    And unless the MP is publicly identified, then there is a potential safeguarding problem with (eg) vulnerable constituents.
    Also, while not having legal/HR training, I understand that one of the first things to do the moment that allegations are raised (at a much lower level of seriousness) is to ensure that the parties involved don't meet each other at work.

    Given that the allegations are over a period of time, is it not possible/probable that people working at the HoC are involved in the investigation?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Licence to Steal?

    The Daily Mail will go all hate-filled about this but what a tragic state this country is descending into.

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-police-officers-should-use-discretion-over-desperate-shoplifters-says-chief-inspector-12616359

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
    That has absolutely nothing to do with my post
    I would suggest it has a great deal to do with the constant theme of your posts
    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    I don't agree with everything you say but I do think you get unwarranted stick on here. VPNgate, for example. It has more than a whiff of misogyny in my opinion.

    I salute your indefatigability!
    To be fair, she also gives out unwarranted stick. I see little behaviour towards her that she does not give out herself.
    About three months ago I realised that the only way for a female to exist on here, in my opinion, is to fight.

    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place.

    You might ask, why do I bother? Well it's because politics really interests me and I like betting on it, and offering betting tips on it.

    I wish I could be a lot more gentle, which is what I'm like in real life, but I would be mowed down on here I'm afraid.

    No need to reply to this please. It's a point of view. You may not agree with it but it won't change (in this instance) how I feel.
    It really is not necessary to fight to survive on here. I have been here for quite some time and have not felt it necessary to get into personal fights with others. And, frankly, personal disputes are to my mind exceedingly tedious - along with most sport, FI and the culinary uses of pineapple in Italian cuisine. But it is very easy to scroll past these outpourings.
    I think Eleanor Roosevelt summed it up best:

    Great Minds Discuss Ideas.
    Average Minds Discuss Events.
    Small Minds Discuss People.
    A quote which has always seemed both pompous and snobbish.
    Perhaps unfairly ?

    I think it's a great quote, but perhaps because I don't think having a small mind (occasionally) is terrible. Having a good old gossip can be quite therapeutic.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,583
    Heathener said:

    JJ, who is mostly it seems to me a decent person, claimed yesterday that homophobia and racism were far reduced yesterday. He cited examples of footballers and others harassed in the past for being gay and that now the situation is much better.

    Well, yesterday's leading trend on twitter in the whole world was the hashtag 'we are all idrissa' in support of 's PSGSenegalese star Idrissa Gueye who refused to wear a shirt carrying the rainbow symbol.

    Homosexuality is illegal in Senegal and in Qatar, who own PSG.

    Two compatriots of Gueye who play in Britain tweeted in support of him.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/61492696

    I am afraid I see little or nothing in this country at the moment to damp down the culture wars and hatred being, I believe, deliberately now fanned into flame by Boris Johnson's appeal to a certain kind of red wall demographic.

    It's godawful.

    Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not sure those comments were made - at least not yesterday, and as far as I can remember.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited May 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Heathener said:

    Licence to Steal?

    The Daily Mail will go all hate-filled about this but what a tragic state this country is descending into.

    https://news.sky.com/story/cost-of-living-police-officers-should-use-discretion-over-desperate-shoplifters-says-chief-inspector-12616359

    I would gently suggest your posts are hardly conducive to a less confrontational society
    That has absolutely nothing to do with my post
    I would suggest it has a great deal to do with the constant theme of your posts
    Big G lay off. I post left-of-centre and sometimes alternative views. You don't have to agree with them but of course they are going to 'seem' abrasive to someone of a right wing persuasion.

    Is this a new even more alarming trend? That the Conservatives are getting so rattled that they now want to clamp down on free speech? On all views contrary to their increasingly Nasty Party? Certainly that would seem to be Priti Patel's wish.
    I don't agree with everything you say but I do think you get unwarranted stick on here. VPNgate, for example. It has more than a whiff of misogyny in my opinion.

    I salute your indefatigability!
    To be fair, she also gives out unwarranted stick. I see little behaviour towards her that she does not give out herself.
    About three months ago I realised that the only way for a female to exist on here, in my opinion, is to fight.

    I think it's really sad but this is a mostly male and often aggressive bear pit of a place.

    You might ask, why do I bother? Well it's because politics really interests me and I like betting on it, and offering betting tips on it.

    I wish I could be a lot more gentle, which is what I'm like in real life, but I would be mowed down on here I'm afraid.

    No need to reply to this please. It's a point of view. You may not agree with it but it won't change (in this instance) how I feel.
    It really is not necessary to fight to survive on here. I have been here for quite some time and have not felt it necessary to get into personal fights with others. And, frankly, personal disputes are to my mind exceedingly tedious - along with most sport, FI and the culinary uses of pineapple in Italian cuisine. But it is very easy to scroll past these outpourings.
    I think Eleanor Roosevelt summed it up best:

    Great Minds Discuss Ideas.
    Average Minds Discuss Events.
    Small Minds Discuss People.
    A quote which has always seemed both pompous and snobbish.
    Perhaps unfairly ?

    The first group are the entrepreneurs
    The second group are the business leaders
    The third group are the politicians and journalists.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    Roger said:

    A question for all you Brits in Britain. How many of you are participating in Platinum Jubilee events? And how many of you are going to avoid them or even go abroad on holiday? I am curious to know!

    I've posted something along these lines before. In my neck of the woods - post-industrial West Yorks, the flat eastern bit of the county - there is a noticeable lack of interest in these big national, often Royalty-related, events. No-one seems to give a damn. No street parties, no big events. Nothing.

    I do remember ever so slightly having a party at my nursery for Charles and Di's wedding. And I'm told I was conceived after my parents had been at a Silver Jubilee bash in '77. So perhaps it wasn't always thus.

    It's not that there's a burning republicanism here, and people certainly have great affection for Lizzy, I think it's just a general sense that all the Royal pageantry stuff, that traditional view of Britain, England, it represents is just so remote from people's lives and experience here.

    I imagine that the tiny villages in rural, southern England, the Home Counties and the like, will pay more attention. The world that I think of as a Radio 4 land, where I imagine people play cricket and keep horses and read the Telegraph and work in the city and publishing and are architects and senior civil servants (no doubt a stereotype in itself) just feels a million miles away from how people live in Knottingley, Featherstone, Pontefract and Castleford.

    I suspect it'll be more keenly observed in the western, hillier, more rural parts of W. Yorks.

    I thought the 75th Anniversary of VE Day would be more celebrated in these parts but that was a damp squib too. But we were just emerging from lockdown 1 and everyone was still very jittery.
    I wanted to see something on the big screen the other day so went to see Downton (something or other). My taste in cinema is eclectic and I watch a lot from around the world. But on reflection I don't think I've watched such ill judged tripe for a long time. It wasn't the storyline or even the acting-though wading through that guff must have been a challenge- it was the underlying assumptions the story made.

    It was a trip through the sensibiliies of Julian Fellowes and it wasn't a nice place to be. To him it was a wonderous place where there was order and everyone knew their position in it. It was a story of class and snobbishness that far from being reviled was worshipped. It wasn't a case of being historically accurate either. The sub plot of the leading actor's gay liason with the under-butler in the film within the film was simply ridiculous.

    I understand the alienation Heathener is talking about and she has a point. The sooner this class ridden nonsense is scrubbed from our consciousness the sooner the country might regain some of it's harmony and dignity. Whoever rids us of the Bullingdon Boys and the 'Fellowes' mentality that put them there the sooner the country might forget the bruising last few years and become a half decent place to be in again.
    Julian Fellowes is a crashing snob
    You can tell a lot by the names people give their offspring. Fellowes's son is Peregrine Charles Morant Kitchener-Fellowes. (Thanks, Wikipedia).
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Looks like Big Dog is safe until the GE now.

    There is an irony if Boris does only receive one FPN against all the odds, then Starmer and Rayner resign over Durham
    That was always the danger of SKS's all in strategy on Partygate.
This discussion has been closed.