Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

A LAB majority NO – but PM Starmer more likely – politicalbetting.com

145679

Comments

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Hope this is NOT considered doxing:

    Elmbridge Borough District Council Hersham Village - results
    Election Candidate Party Votes % Outcome
    CHANDLER Chester Robert Liberal Democrat 1122 45.1% Elected
    O'REILLY John Conservative 1102 44.3% Not elected
    HAINES Kelly Suzanne Labour 262 10.5% Not elected

    Personally have mixed emotions!

    Clear our JohnO fought the good fight, in true Irish style. And that what bested him was not HIS sins & errors.

    We don't know that was the reason the vote swung yellow, just that was his constituents decided.
    Are you implying, that the good (and bad) electors of Elmbridge got wind that JohnO was consorting with a pack of virtual hooligans on an extremely dodgy website devoted to high-stakes gambling, low-tech dildo manufacturing, alternative-vote propaganda, and other deviant activity?
    No, just that there is more rotten in the Tory party than just the leadership. Changing the leader is not the only thing required to detox the Nasty Party.
    True enough. Just sorta doubt JohnO's personal toxicity level was determinative.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.
    If you don't want to do analysis and just stuck with this line then that's fine.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1522621649983614981

    As we have all said 1,000,000 times now, "Labour doing as well in the red wall as when they held the red wall" is not bad news for the party.
    Once again, a local election isn't comparable to a GE. In 2018 Labour "held" all of those at a local election and then got battered at a GE. In loads of those seats they were also close to losing on 2017. The dynamics of a GE are completely different to a LE.

    Labour needs to be doing significantly better than their 2018 performance to be on course to win, unless you forgot they haven't actually fucking won an election since 2005.
  • This is no seismic Labour victory. But with Labour's best result in 10 years and attrition on both flanks, some Conservatives are in denial about the problem they face - and risk sleepwalking into electoral defeat come 2024.

    https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1522575404648775680
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695
    kle4 said:


    dixiedean said:

    Conservative results terrible in Wales. It's going to be 400+ losses.

    Lot of good work over recent years being undone there, it seems.
    I was wrong thinking, because Wales been so strongly Brexit Labour would struggle to do this.. I wonder if the children getting the vote cancelled out Tory Brexit ace card? Nits straight forward Tory to Labour switching.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.
    If you don't want to do analysis and just stuck with this line then that's fine.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1522621649983614981

    As we have all said 1,000,000 times now, "Labour doing as well in the red wall as when they held the red wall" is not bad news for the party.
    Once again, a local election isn't comparable to a GE. In 2018 Labour "held" all of those at a local election and then got battered at a GE. In loads of those seats they were also close to losing on 2017. The dynamics of a GE are completely different to a LE.

    Labour needs to be doing significantly better than their 2018 performance to be on course to win, unless you forgot they haven't actually fucking won an election since 2005.
    I didn't realise you knew more than Opinium or Redfield Wilton. Okay mate you do you.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.
    Where's this "no gains" coming from?
    It's over 100. Which was my par score coming in.
    The rest of it may be right. But a Lib Dem comeback is a necessary, but not sufficient condition of NOM. That is certainly happening.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,367
    Pro_Rata said:

    So, a third place with 8.6% for @david_herdson:

    Wakefield Rural
    Name Party Votes %
    BRYAN, Jordan Phillip Labour Party 1838 36.8
    DAVIES, Lien Kerry Freedom Alliance. The Real Alternative 69 1.4
    HARVEY, Samantha (Elected) The Conservative Party Candidate 2347 47.0
    HERDSON, David John Rowntree Yorkshire Party 428 8.6
    SADLER, Karen Green Party 314 6.3
    Majority 509 10.2
    Spoiled Votes 8
    % turnout 36.4
    Total Votes 4,996

    Wakefield Constituency Overall (change from LE 21 in brackets)

    Lab: 50.6 (+8.6)
    Con 33.6 (-13.4)
    YP 5.8 (+4.7)
    Green 5.1 (-2.0)
    LD 3.5 (+2.4)
    Others 1.5 (NC)

    The mind concentrating effect of a by- election is some of the massive swing here, but it is also down to a large swing in Wakefield E, which went from a Con win to Lab 70% because of which candidates were from the community.

    Again, gives hope for the mind concentrating effect of a GE that the late swing might be in Labour's favour.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Results getting worse and worse for the Tories.

    Pointed that out a couple of hours ago. The headlines really need a rewrite. A simply stunning result by the Lib Dems who are currently +176 in England alone. The yellow peril is back in the game.
    Lab excluding London now back in net loss territory as well
    Scotland and Wales don't count?
    They never have, but at least the Scots knew that....
  • And the picture of "Red Wall still lost" is wrong. Labour have won back Wakefield.

    The Red Wall has not returned at once - but it has swung back.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,329
    Taz said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO, some good news! Have just contacted Marjorie Taylor Greene's congressional office, and Tucker Carlson's booking agent, alerting them to your situation.

    They are flying out immediately to assist you in overturning this obviously rigged result!

    Make Hersham Great Again - I rather like that.
    Hersham boys, hersham boys, laced up boots and corduroys.
    Open toed sandals and corduroys
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,331
    edited May 2022

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MISTY said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Just looking at the breakdown of the Woking results and they should send a shudder through the Conservative Party. The LibDems didn't just take the council, these results are not even close.

    Heathlands, my ward, flipped 1500 LibDem votes to 1000 Conservative with another 400 Green.

    I am almost speechless. Those Surrey Conservative MPs are in big trouble. They include Michael Gove, Dominic Raab, Jeremy Hunt, Kwasi Kwarteng, Chris Grayling.

    Those of you betting on Hunt to be next tory leader ... if you wait until after the election he might not even be an MP.

    https://www.woking.gov.uk/results2022

    Surrey is no longer safe Tory certainly, it is now a swing Tory v LD county.

    Most of Essex and much of the Midlands however have moved from swing areas to reasonably safe Conservative
    One of the principal reasons Boris has a large majority is that he was able to trade off the mountains of votes that they won in the south of England for a lot of votes in the midlands and the North, greatly increasing their vote efficiency. Which is an extremely cunning plan until your base becomes so hollowed out it falls over, just as Scotland did for Labour.
    OK but what policy choices, specifically, are turning off voters in Surrey?
    I don't live there so I can't really say but if you look at the areas who have now voted Lib Dem and those who voted remain there seems to be quite a close correlation: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36618907
    Those who voted to leave have stayed more with the Tories. The divisions of the referendum are still with us. The challenge of the government is to move past those issues but instead they seem to double down on them.
    Because of Brexit, it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever vote Tory again.
    Brexit is a total irrelevance, Covid and Ukraine will impact your life, Brexit is just yesterday's noise
    This is absolutely true but it is not how people feel about it and that determines how they vote.
    To take some obvious examples people claim we have high inflation because of Brexit but our inflation is actually lower than the EZ or the US. People claimed that we would lose hundreds of thousands of jobs but we have record employment and record vacancies. People claimed that Brexit would cause a recession but last year we had the highest growth in the G7. People continue to claim that our exports to the EU are being hammered and yet:
    UK’s good exports to the EU grew by 20% compared to the same quarter five years ago (Q2 2016)
    UK’s sales to the EU in Q2 2016: £32.1 billion
    UK’s sales to the EU five years later, in Q2 2021: £38.56 billion

    People believe what they want to believe and to hell with the facts. And they have every right to. That is democracy and there is no point in crying about it.
    Maybe people try and justify it and find reasons to support their beliefs. I do not. I disagreed profoundly with how the referendum was set up, the language used during the campaign, the behaviour of the Conservatives / ERG / Leavers afterwards, etc.

    I do not give a d*mn about finding reasons after the event.
    The thing that crystallised it for me was the insult to my European friends and colleagues. My countryfolk had told them to piss off, and many of them now have gone home.

    I will not be voting Conservative again, at least not until they repudiate Brexitism. I don't expect that soon.
    This is ridiculous. We told them we did not want to be part of an undemocratic, quasi-Federal political union. We did not tell them to “piss off”
    Immigration was the major driver of the Brexit vote, and my friends and colleagues were EU immigrants. I don't blame them for taking it personally.
    No, you encourage them to take it personally.
    It was personal, and that made it personal for me too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,656
    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    DavidL said:



    How do the Tories get these supporters, or people like @Richard_Nabavi or @TSE back? That is what the government needs to focus on. Getting rid of the liar in chief may be a necessary but probably not a sufficient step on its own.

    Can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it's absolutely a necessary step, but as you imply, not enough on its own. They also need to get back to being the party of business and economic sanity, of realism, of honesty and integrity, and start working to undo some of the damage they've done with our main trading partner.

    I'm not holding my breath!
    As another former Tory (council candidate & voter) I can't imagine what they can do to demonstrate that they can be trusted. They have a decade or so of just being "wrong" (IMHO) economically, socially, morally etc. Johnson is a symptom not a cause.

    And how long should Labour have to wait, to be trusted, after they actually elected a traitorous, IRA-supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti-Semitic, Putin-forgiving communist as LEADER? 30 years? More? Corbyn only resigned at the end of 2019. Two and a half years ago

    People forgive and forget pretty quick. Once Boris goes, if he goes, the cavalcade of disapproval will move on

    Only Tony Blair seems to receive perpetual condemnation, for all eternity. A peculiar thing
    On the other hand people only just seem up to forgiving the LDs for the coalition and that was 7 years ago.
  • So right now we have:

    Tories: -347 councillors
    -10 Councils

    Labour: +99 councillors
    +8 Councils

    Lib: +170
    +2 Councils

    Green: +63 councillors

    But yeah, the tories have done 'relatively well' in losing 1/5 seats they were defending.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,886
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MISTY said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Just looking at the breakdown of the Woking results and they should send a shudder through the Conservative Party. The LibDems didn't just take the council, these results are not even close.

    Heathlands, my ward, flipped 1500 LibDem votes to 1000 Conservative with another 400 Green.

    I am almost speechless. Those Surrey Conservative MPs are in big trouble. They include Michael Gove, Dominic Raab, Jeremy Hunt, Kwasi Kwarteng, Chris Grayling.

    Those of you betting on Hunt to be next tory leader ... if you wait until after the election he might not even be an MP.

    https://www.woking.gov.uk/results2022

    Surrey is no longer safe Tory certainly, it is now a swing Tory v LD county.

    Most of Essex and much of the Midlands however have moved from swing areas to reasonably safe Conservative
    One of the principal reasons Boris has a large majority is that he was able to trade off the mountains of votes that they won in the south of England for a lot of votes in the midlands and the North, greatly increasing their vote efficiency. Which is an extremely cunning plan until your base becomes so hollowed out it falls over, just as Scotland did for Labour.
    OK but what policy choices, specifically, are turning off voters in Surrey?
    I don't live there so I can't really say but if you look at the areas who have now voted Lib Dem and those who voted remain there seems to be quite a close correlation: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36618907
    Those who voted to leave have stayed more with the Tories. The divisions of the referendum are still with us. The challenge of the government is to move past those issues but instead they seem to double down on them.
    Because of Brexit, it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever vote Tory again.
    Brexit is a total irrelevance, Covid and Ukraine will impact your life, Brexit is just yesterday's noise
    This is absolutely true but it is not how people feel about it and that determines how they vote.
    To take some obvious examples people claim we have high inflation because of Brexit but our inflation is actually lower than the EZ or the US. People claimed that we would lose hundreds of thousands of jobs but we have record employment and record vacancies. People claimed that Brexit would cause a recession but last year we had the highest growth in the G7. People continue to claim that our exports to the EU are being hammered and yet:
    UK’s good exports to the EU grew by 20% compared to the same quarter five years ago (Q2 2016)
    UK’s sales to the EU in Q2 2016: £32.1 billion
    UK’s sales to the EU five years later, in Q2 2021: £38.56 billion

    People believe what they want to believe and to hell with the facts. And they have every right to. That is democracy and there is no point in crying about it.
    Maybe people try and justify it and find reasons to support their beliefs. I do not. I disagreed profoundly with how the referendum was set up, the language used during the campaign, the behaviour of the Conservatives / ERG / Leavers afterwards, etc.

    I do not give a d*mn about finding reasons after the event.
    The thing that crystallised it for me was the insult to my European friends and colleagues. My countryfolk had told them to piss off, and many of them now have gone home.

    I will not be voting Conservative again, at least not until they repudiate Brexitism. I don't expect that soon.
    This is ridiculous. We told them we did not want to be part of an undemocratic, quasi-Federal political union. We did not tell them to “piss off”
    Immigration was the major driver of the Brexit vote, and my friends and colleagues were EU immigrants. I don't blame them for taking it personally.
    Factually wrong, as is often the case with you. Polls at the time, and afterwards, had sovereignty as the major driver for a Leave vote.

    Lord Ashcroft did the biggest poll of all. 12,000 people


    “Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”


    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/02/how-the-uk-voted-on-brexit-and-why-a-refresher/
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,081

    So right now we have:

    Tories: -347 councillors
    -10 Councils

    Labour: +99 councillors
    +8 Councils

    Lib: +170
    +2 Councils

    Green: +63 councillors

    But yeah, the tories have done 'relatively well' in losing 1/5 seats they were defending.

    Did someone actually say the tories have done 'relatively well'?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695
    edited May 2022
    Well it’s happened, the Tories down 300 in England alone.

    I’m sure the experts here have it 165 based on opinion polls, with the possibility the Tory’s can do better than that?

    image
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,572
    dixiedean said:

    Gosport went LD.
    Quite a surprise there.

    Yes and no.
    It was all-out on new boundaries, so anything can happen.

    And the Lib Dems did win on seats on the day as recently as 2018, albeit in a fairly flukey way.

    And Gosport Libs' head honcho is still very good at what he does.

    But yes... The Conservatives had a shocker there.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Carnyx said:

    Has Sir Keir resigned yet? :lol:

    Who cares?
    We've gone about three hours without the PB Thinkcrime Police demanding his execution for something for which they praise Mr Johnson. Quite a pleasant change.
    Boris is one of theirs, a "good egg", been to Eton old boy, won them the election, etc etc. Party before country. Johnson could eat babies on TV and they would still excuse him.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.
    If you don't want to do analysis and just stuck with this line then that's fine.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1522621649983614981

    As we have all said 1,000,000 times now, "Labour doing as well in the red wall as when they held the red wall" is not bad news for the party.
    Once again, a local election isn't comparable to a GE. In 2018 Labour "held" all of those at a local election and then got battered at a GE. In loads of those seats they were also close to losing on 2017. The dynamics of a GE are completely different to a LE.

    Labour needs to be doing significantly better than their 2018 performance to be on course to win, unless you forgot they haven't actually fucking won an election since 2005.
    I didn't realise you knew more than Opinium or Redfield Wilton. Okay mate you do you.
    I've successfully made a living from being better informed than the "experts". In fact a significant number of PBers are in the same category, it's why there's such a random collection of knowledge and insight here that you don't get elsewhere.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,696
    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,081

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    Wait, are you assuming the election will be free and fair? :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,331
    dixiedean said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.
    Where's this "no gains" coming from?
    It's over 100. Which was my par score coming in.
    The rest of it may be right. But a Lib Dem comeback is a necessary, but not sufficient condition of NOM. That is certainly happening.
    Regaining the 2018 position is a major turnaround for Labour.

    It is a rather plodding, unspectacular, under the radar win, much like Starmer himself.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,118
    Labour now has a TEN point lead over the Tories on the economy. https://twitter.com/redfieldwilton/status/1522516583909933056
  • Results from all 32 Scottish councils now in

    SNP: 453 [+62]
    Labour: 282 [+40]
    Tories: 214 [-44]
    Independent: 152 [-80]
    Lib Dems: 87 [+20]
    *via PA*

    So Labour leapfrogs Tories into 2nd place

    Scottish Labour is now the defender of the Union, another Tory campaign point gone
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Taz said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO, some good news! Have just contacted Marjorie Taylor Greene's congressional office, and Tucker Carlson's booking agent, alerting them to your situation.

    They are flying out immediately to assist you in overturning this obviously rigged result!

    Make Hersham Great Again - I rather like that.
    Hersham boys, hersham boys, laced up boots and corduroys.
    That's what many lesbians wear in my hood!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,699
    knowing how much the Tories love the story of this morning rather than the current reality - may I draw people's attention to NI where currently Sinn Fein have 15 seats and the DUP a total of 2.
  • dixiedean said:

    And the picture of "Red Wall still lost" is wrong. Labour have won back Wakefield.

    The Red Wall has not returned at once - but it has swung back.

    The Red Wall doesn't exist as a homogeneous unit. I never tire of saying this. Or of having to it seems
    I was agreeing with you dixie.

    Hope you are keeping well friend
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    The other thing to note, going into the last General Election it was Tories +UKIP making something like nearly 60% before Tories (Cummings) done that truly brilliant thing of corralling the UKIP to the Tories, like a cowboy stealing someone else’s heard.

    Since that moment that huge % has basically halved. Quite a fight on their hands to fight back in the next two years?

    It’s one way of looking at it?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,953

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer due to address media shortly about Durham police announcing they’re investigating him…
    https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1522616466801106946

    He looks in the clear to me unless I'm missing something. It was a legal gathering if "reasonably necessary" for work purposes - a test I'd have thought it meets.
    Starmer's just been interviewed, and seems supremely confident that there was no breach of the rules up north. If he's right, this may turn out okay for him in contrast to the No. 10 FPNs.
    Yep, I think so. With more FPNs (and Grey) to come for BoJo. Plus these results getting worse for the Cons. And yet - if we're totally honest - also a teeny bit disappointing for Labour in the circumstances. Just a very interesting situation, basically, with a GE 2 years away.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,409
    dixiedean said:

    Gosport went LD.
    Quite a surprise there.

    Astonishing for anyone who knows Gosport.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,696
    Looks like the Welsh have realised that the Tories are now an English nationalist party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,360
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,383
    Mediocre for labour, A mixed bag for the Tories but pretty bad in their heartlands, a good result for the Lib Dems. The greens gained a handful.

    Overall the winners last night are the Lib Dems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,022
    edited May 2022

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer due to address media shortly about Durham police announcing they’re investigating him…
    https://twitter.com/ionewells/status/1522616466801106946

    He looks in the clear to me unless I'm missing something. It was a legal gathering if "reasonably necessary" for work purposes - a test I'd have thought it meets.
    Starmer's just been interviewed, and seems supremely confident that there was no breach of the rules up north. If he's right, this may turn out okay for him in contrast to the No. 10 FPNs.
    Now that Durham have reopened the investigation into Starmer, will they reopen the one into Cummings who has after all admitted he repeatedly lied about the reasons he went north? (Admittedly, only while telling a pack of different transparent lies that a fairly bright three year old wouldn't bother with.)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,411

    This is no seismic Labour victory.

    If even CHB states it's not a seismic victory then Lab are doomed! :D
  • Once again HYUFD the only Tory it seems not saying how fantastic the results have been for them
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    edited May 2022
    eek said:

    knowing how much the Tories love the story of this morning rather than the current reality - may I draw people's attention to NI where currently Sinn Fein have 15 seats and the DUP a total of 2.

    SF holding their FP vote share too. With only one constituency to come. Something of a surprise that.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,383

    Taz said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO, some good news! Have just contacted Marjorie Taylor Greene's congressional office, and Tucker Carlson's booking agent, alerting them to your situation.

    They are flying out immediately to assist you in overturning this obviously rigged result!

    Make Hersham Great Again - I rather like that.
    Hersham boys, hersham boys, laced up boots and corduroys.
    Open toed sandals and corduroys
    Cracking 👍
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,081

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    The other thing to note, going into the last General Election it was Tories +UKIP making something like nearly 60% before Tories (Cummings) done that truly brilliant thing of corralling the UKIP to the Tories, like a cowboy stealing someone else’s heard.

    Since that moment that huge % has basically halved. Quite a fight on their hands to fight back in the next two years?

    It’s one way of looking at it?
    The combined Tory + UKIP/BXP share was never near 60%!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,331

    Taz said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO, some good news! Have just contacted Marjorie Taylor Greene's congressional office, and Tucker Carlson's booking agent, alerting them to your situation.

    They are flying out immediately to assist you in overturning this obviously rigged result!

    Make Hersham Great Again - I rather like that.
    Hersham boys, hersham boys, laced up boots and corduroys.
    That's what many lesbians wear in my hood!
    The quote is from Sham 69, https://youtu.be/bzHFXzum95w
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,411
    Taz said:

    Mediocre for labour, A mixed bag for the Tories but pretty bad in their heartlands, a good result for the Lib Dems. The greens gained a handful.

    Overall the winners last night are the Lib Dems.

    Fair summary. It does look as though the Lib-Dems have been forgiven for the coalition and are now back in the game.

    Of course the Lib-Dem success will melt away like June snow in the general election...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,696
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.

    The LibDems are going to do a lot better than they did in 2015, 2017 and 2019. Labour will do better than it did in 2019. The Tories could well win most seats, but I think a majority is tough with Johnson in charge. He is actively disliked by too many voters in a way that neither Major nor Cameron were. It's visceral with him. And Johnson is going nowhere.



  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,874
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,022

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2022
    Lutfur Rahman has won Tower Hamlets.

    54.9% to 45.1% in the run-off
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,331
    GIN1138 said:

    Taz said:

    Mediocre for labour, A mixed bag for the Tories but pretty bad in their heartlands, a good result for the Lib Dems. The greens gained a handful.

    Overall the winners last night are the Lib Dems.

    Fair summary. It does look as though the Lib-Dems have been forgiven for the coalition and are now back in the game.

    Of course the Lib-Dem success will melt away like June snow in the general election...
    Yes, but for the Tories that is a problem. Those green and yellow votes are not turning blue in a tactical squeeze.
  • Holden highlighted an invitation for a “quiz and social in-person event” on Facebook from the City of Durham Labour Party, on the same evening that Starmer was drinking beer. Foy encouraged attendees to have a “greasy night”, which is slang for drinking

    Eh? Is that it?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,602
    @susannareid100
    Jeremy Corbyn describes the police investigation into allegations Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer broke covid rules “very serious” and “a huge development”.


    https://twitter.com/susannareid100/status/1522622371131240448
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
    Which you originally thought the Tories would hold.

    How’s Minor County West getting on then?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,699
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    knowing how much the Tories love the story of this morning rather than the current reality - may I draw people's attention to NI where currently Sinn Fein have 15 seats and the DUP a total of 2.

    SF holding their FP vote share too. With only one constituency to come. Something of a surprise that.
    Looking round - one area of interest is Foyle where it seems Sinn Fein were right to pick 2 candidates as the 3 SDLP candidates seem to have taken bites out of each other.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150
    tlg86 said:

    Starmer isn’t going anywhere even if he is fined.

    He should be gone already.

    DavidL said:

    Results getting worse and worse for the Tories.

    Pointed that out a couple of hours ago. The headlines really need a rewrite. A simply stunning result by the Lib Dems who are currently +176 in England alone. The yellow peril is back in the game.
    Lab excluding London now back in net loss territory as well
    How are you Corbynites allowed to pick and choose what should and shouldn't be counted? If we discount London, Wales and Scotland Labour are doing worse than Corbyn four years ago is not how it works.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,022

    Lutfur Rahman has won Tower Hamlets.

    54.9% to 45.1% in the run-off

    Really?

    Or do you mean, 'he was declared the winner?' Not quite the same thing in his case...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,022
    edited May 2022

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
    Which you originally thought the Tories would hold.

    How’s Minor County West getting on then?
    We have had the worst of the weather today. At least Surrey didn't have home umpires.

    But look at your lot...can't even knock over Alistair Cook.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    @susannareid100
    Jeremy Corbyn describes the police investigation into allegations Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer broke covid rules “very serious” and “a huge development”.


    https://twitter.com/susannareid100/status/1522622371131240448

    Translation: "... a huge opportunity to put me back in charge..."
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Conservatives lost Monmouthshire to NOC. Labour largest party
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    edited May 2022
    Coin toss alert!
    Labour loses again in Monmouthshire.
    Useless tossers all over the nation.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,081

    Holden highlighted an invitation for a “quiz and social in-person event” on Facebook from the City of Durham Labour Party, on the same evening that Starmer was drinking beer. Foy encouraged attendees to have a “greasy night”, which is slang for drinking

    Eh? Is that it?

    Remember, Johnson got a FPN for sitting at the cabinet desk while some colleagues working in other rooms came for a few minutes without even eating or drinking. The bar is extremely low!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695

    tlg86 said:

    Starmer isn’t going anywhere even if he is fined.

    He should be gone already.

    DavidL said:

    Results getting worse and worse for the Tories.

    Pointed that out a couple of hours ago. The headlines really need a rewrite. A simply stunning result by the Lib Dems who are currently +176 in England alone. The yellow peril is back in the game.
    Lab excluding London now back in net loss territory as well
    How are you Corbynites allowed to pick and choose what should and shouldn't be counted? If we discount London, Wales and Scotland Labour are doing worse than Corbyn four years ago is not how it works.
    Beware cherry pickers. Or is it cherry pickers of the world unite?

    Another way of looking at it is, is the Labour vote gain offset by losses in a way that doesn’t matter? For sure Labour have lost an unexpected number of seats to Greens and Libdems, that means they won more than they lost as well. Not all wins and losses are equal, some are bad, they hurt, some are good, good swing right place.

    For example the Labour gains in Peterborough, Bridgend, are not offset in anyway by the loss of seats in Hull, in terms of preparation for a general election.

    This is why start of evening - oh we into another one, I meant the last one - Labour spun the line don’t look at seat gains look at vote share and GE projections.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,886
    Cultural observation from the Turkish eastern Aegean

    1. the only thing rarer than face-masks in Kusadasi, Turkey, is a headscarf on a woman. About 3% wear facemasks. So that’s not a lot of headscarves (full-on niqabs or whatever are simply non-existent). This town is overwhelmingly secular. The muezzin are drowned out by the Ibizan chillaxo-funk from from all the bars. And it is Friday evening

    And yes I know this Turkish coast has always been westernized and secular, but I’ve been here a few times over the decades and it has definitely got MORE secular and westernized

    2. The average citizen here probably has a higher quality of life than the average Alabaman or Mississippian - or the average Red Waller, for that matter - taking everything into account: climate, food, architecture, landscape, health, culture

    It reminds me of a prosperous, coastal part of Catalonia or Languedoc

  • Once again HYUFD the only Tory it seems not saying how fantastic the results have been for them

    ???

    Everyone right-leaning I've seen has said the Tories did poorly, but many have said not unexpectedly for midterms.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,572
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    1992 had a moderately strong Lib Lab understanding of who would fight the Tories where, which the voters tacitly understood. Hence Major's 42% giving a thin majority.

    2015 was peak Lib on Lab war action.
    Whatever the opposite of tactical voting is. Hence Cameron winning on a much lower percentage.

    What do you really think 2024 will be like?

    Starmer is not a winner, sure. But unless the Conservatives properly relaunch, he may not need to be.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,022
    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
    Owen Paterson scandal should have been enough.
    The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse wouldn't persuade this lot to act.

    They're more spineless and dishonest than the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,953
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    MISTY said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Just looking at the breakdown of the Woking results and they should send a shudder through the Conservative Party. The LibDems didn't just take the council, these results are not even close.

    Heathlands, my ward, flipped 1500 LibDem votes to 1000 Conservative with another 400 Green.

    I am almost speechless. Those Surrey Conservative MPs are in big trouble. They include Michael Gove, Dominic Raab, Jeremy Hunt, Kwasi Kwarteng, Chris Grayling.

    Those of you betting on Hunt to be next tory leader ... if you wait until after the election he might not even be an MP.

    https://www.woking.gov.uk/results2022

    Surrey is no longer safe Tory certainly, it is now a swing Tory v LD county.

    Most of Essex and much of the Midlands however have moved from swing areas to reasonably safe Conservative
    One of the principal reasons Boris has a large majority is that he was able to trade off the mountains of votes that they won in the south of England for a lot of votes in the midlands and the North, greatly increasing their vote efficiency. Which is an extremely cunning plan until your base becomes so hollowed out it falls over, just as Scotland did for Labour.
    OK but what policy choices, specifically, are turning off voters in Surrey?
    I don't live there so I can't really say but if you look at the areas who have now voted Lib Dem and those who voted remain there seems to be quite a close correlation: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36618907
    Those who voted to leave have stayed more with the Tories. The divisions of the referendum are still with us. The challenge of the government is to move past those issues but instead they seem to double down on them.
    Because of Brexit, it will be a cold day in Hell before I ever vote Tory again.
    Brexit is a total irrelevance, Covid and Ukraine will impact your life, Brexit is just yesterday's noise
    This is absolutely true but it is not how people feel about it and that determines how they vote.
    To take some obvious examples people claim we have high inflation because of Brexit but our inflation is actually lower than the EZ or the US. People claimed that we would lose hundreds of thousands of jobs but we have record employment and record vacancies. People claimed that Brexit would cause a recession but last year we had the highest growth in the G7. People continue to claim that our exports to the EU are being hammered and yet:
    UK’s good exports to the EU grew by 20% compared to the same quarter five years ago (Q2 2016)
    UK’s sales to the EU in Q2 2016: £32.1 billion
    UK’s sales to the EU five years later, in Q2 2021: £38.56 billion

    People believe what they want to believe and to hell with the facts. And they have every right to. That is democracy and there is no point in crying about it.
    Maybe people try and justify it and find reasons to support their beliefs. I do not. I disagreed profoundly with how the referendum was set up, the language used during the campaign, the behaviour of the Conservatives / ERG / Leavers afterwards, etc.

    I do not give a d*mn about finding reasons after the event.
    The thing that crystallised it for me was the insult to my European friends and colleagues. My countryfolk had told them to piss off, and many of them now have gone home.

    I will not be voting Conservative again, at least not until they repudiate Brexitism. I don't expect that soon.
    This is ridiculous. We told them we did not want to be part of an undemocratic, quasi-Federal political union. We did not tell them to “piss off”
    Immigration was the major driver of the Brexit vote, and my friends and colleagues were EU immigrants. I don't blame them for taking it personally.
    Factually wrong, as is often the case with you. Polls at the time, and afterwards, had sovereignty as the major driver for a Leave vote.

    Lord Ashcroft did the biggest poll of all. 12,000 people

    “Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.”

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/02/how-the-uk-voted-on-brexit-and-why-a-refresher/
    "Sovereignty" is a pc way of saying "Immigration" though. It's a nice, noble sounding thing c.f. border control which sounds rather harsh and specific. Therefore the 1st concern is often a cypher for the 2nd. Plus many of the Leave respondents wouldn't understand the questions. So I'd be a bit skeptical of that poll.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045
    Leon said:

    Cultural observation from the Turkish eastern Aegean

    1. the only thing rarer than face-masks in Kusadasi, Turkey, is a headscarf on a woman. About 3% wear facemasks. So that’s not a lot of headscarves (full-on niqabs or whatever are simply non-existent). This town is overwhelmingly secular. The muezzin are drowned out by the Ibizan chillaxo-funk from from all the bars. And it is Friday evening

    And yes I know this Turkish coast has always been westernized and secular, but I’ve been here a few times over the decades and it has definitely got MORE secular and westernized

    2. The average citizen here probably has a higher quality of life than the average Alabaman or Mississippian - or the average Red Waller, for that matter - taking everything into account: climate, food, architecture, landscape, health, culture

    It reminds me of a prosperous, coastal part of Catalonia or Languedoc

    I worked there twice but I wouldn't go overboard. Better than the Red Wall certainly
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,411

    @susannareid100
    Jeremy Corbyn describes the police investigation into allegations Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer broke covid rules “very serious” and “a huge development”.


    https://twitter.com/susannareid100/status/1522622371131240448

    He probably means very serious... for him... Wasn't he pictured breaking lockdown rules on more than one occasion? ;)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    Farooq said:

    Results from all 32 Scottish councils now in

    SNP: 453 [+62]
    Labour: 282 [+40]
    Tories: 214 [-44]
    Independent: 152 [-80]
    Lib Dems: 87 [+20]
    *via PA*

    So Labour leapfrogs Tories into 2nd place

    Scottish Labour is now the defender of the Union, another Tory campaign point gone

    That's way better for SNP than I expected. I thought their range was somewhere between static and a quietly surprising reverse. As in, I wouldn't have been shocked with -30. Those unionist transfers must have completely evaporated.

    I'm calling it. Indy/union is no longer the defining divide in Scotland. It's back to Tory/not.
    PA couldn't be arsed to include the SGs. Important part of the picture. Seems they doubled, but didn;t overtake the LDs as they did long ago in Holyrood.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Am I right that the tories have so far lost over 420 seats?

    It's quite difficult to find somewhere which gives the grand total (?) but that's what it looks like
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2022
    Final tally in Scotland

    SNP 454 (+23)
    Lab 281 (+19)
    Con 215 (-61)
    Ind 152 (-16)
    LD 87 (+20)
    Green 34 (+15)
    Others 3 (-1)

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1522628799992680448?s=20&t=YE_bBAXmhvBSZZuh-AWmEw
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
    Owen Paterson scandal should have been enough.
    The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse wouldn't persuade this lot to act.

    They're more spineless and dishonest than the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.
    The old board, surely ...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150
    ...
    Farooq said:

    Lutfur Rahman has won Tower Hamlets.

    54.9% to 45.1% in the run-off

    Something rotten in the state of Tower Hamlets.
    Out of a 500,000 electorate Labour got very creditable 600,000 votes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,886
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    Cultural observation from the Turkish eastern Aegean

    1. the only thing rarer than face-masks in Kusadasi, Turkey, is a headscarf on a woman. About 3% wear facemasks. So that’s not a lot of headscarves (full-on niqabs or whatever are simply non-existent). This town is overwhelmingly secular. The muezzin are drowned out by the Ibizan chillaxo-funk from from all the bars. And it is Friday evening

    And yes I know this Turkish coast has always been westernized and secular, but I’ve been here a few times over the decades and it has definitely got MORE secular and westernized

    2. The average citizen here probably has a higher quality of life than the average Alabaman or Mississippian - or the average Red Waller, for that matter - taking everything into account: climate, food, architecture, landscape, health, culture

    It reminds me of a prosperous, coastal part of Catalonia or Languedoc

    I worked there twice but I wouldn't go overboard. Better than the Red Wall certainly
    When were you last here?

    There’s a lot of new development, I am told. Especially on the waterfront. It is REALLY well done
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    Just noticed the Tories lost 21 of 68 in North Yorkshire.
    Adds to the rural carnage.
    Lucky not many were up.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660

    Final tally in Scotland

    SNP 454 (+23)
    Lab 281 (+19)
    Con 215 (-61)
    Ind 152 (-16)
    LD 87 (+20)
    Green 34 (+15)
    Others 3 (-1)

    https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1522628799992680448?s=20&t=YE_bBAXmhvBSZZuh-AWmEw

    Rather different from the PA results CHB posted a few mos ago. But the basic story is much the same.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Looking at where the likely transfers will go in the NI results it looks like game over for the DUP .

    Sinn Fein to have the largest share of the vote and most assembly members . And in Michelle O’Neil they have a very charismatic and charming First Minister .

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695
    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
    Owen Paterson scandal should have been enough.
    The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse wouldn't persuade this lot to act.

    They're more spineless and dishonest than the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.
    Oi!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    Final tally in Scotland

    SNP 454 (+23)
    Lab 281 (+19)
    Con 215 (-61)
    Ind 152 (-16)
    LD 87 (+20)
    Green 34 (+15)
    Others 3 (-1)

    This is significant. Labour revival in Scotland is continuing and Nicola Sturgeon has issued a typically pissy comment, saying Labour's gain is all about the tory vote collapse.

    If Labour push on towards 15-20 MPs in Scotland it sure helps their cause.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,072
    I suppose the best result for Labour would be a Boris survival. Keir Starmer going wouldn't be terrible for Labour, as long as Angela Rayner doesn't get a fine too.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,081

    ...

    Farooq said:

    Lutfur Rahman has won Tower Hamlets.

    54.9% to 45.1% in the run-off

    Something rotten in the state of Tower Hamlets.
    Out of a 500,000 electorate Labour got very creditable 600,000 votes.
    A pity for them that Rahman managed to get 900,000 votes.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    nico679 said:

    Looking at where the likely transfers will go in the NI results it looks like game over for the DUP .

    Sinn Fein to have the largest share of the vote and most assembly members . And in Michelle O’Neil they have a very charismatic and charming First Minister .

    It's the second party that really interests me ...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,502
    Heathener said:

    Am I right that the tories have so far lost over 420 seats?

    It's quite difficult to find somewhere which gives the grand total (?) but that's what it looks like

    Sky website does. Although you have to add E, S and Wales totals up manually.
    They make it 414. But aren't always the quickest.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,411
    Foxy said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Taz said:

    Mediocre for labour, A mixed bag for the Tories but pretty bad in their heartlands, a good result for the Lib Dems. The greens gained a handful.

    Overall the winners last night are the Lib Dems.

    Fair summary. It does look as though the Lib-Dems have been forgiven for the coalition and are now back in the game.

    Of course the Lib-Dem success will melt away like June snow in the general election...
    Yes, but for the Tories that is a problem. Those green and yellow votes are not turning blue in a tactical squeeze.
    Yeah... but then Con will get some voters back from the Lib-Dems and a lot of the Con voters that stayed at home for this election will turn out for the General so it's swings and roundabouts...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,874
    RobD said:

    Holden highlighted an invitation for a “quiz and social in-person event” on Facebook from the City of Durham Labour Party, on the same evening that Starmer was drinking beer. Foy encouraged attendees to have a “greasy night”, which is slang for drinking

    Eh? Is that it?

    Remember, Johnson got a FPN for sitting at the cabinet desk while some colleagues working in other rooms came for a few minutes without even eating or drinking. The bar is extremely low!
    The police would not have reopened the investigation without further evidence and to be fair it is unwise to make judgement on it before the police do
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    dixiedean said:

    Heathener said:

    Am I right that the tories have so far lost over 420 seats?

    It's quite difficult to find somewhere which gives the grand total (?) but that's what it looks like

    Sky website does. Although you have to add E, S and Wales totals up manually.
    They make it 414. But aren't always the quickest.
    Thanks
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 890

    @susannareid100
    Jeremy Corbyn describes the police investigation into allegations Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer broke covid rules “very serious” and “a huge development”.


    https://twitter.com/susannareid100/status/1522622371131240448

    Translation: "... a huge opportunity to put me back in charge..."
    I know The Cult want it, but I'm not convinced he'd be that keen himself. Had a face like a slapped arse whenever someone dared to ask him a question about anything (though particularly about things he'd said on the back benches).
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,695

    Conservatives lost Monmouthshire to NOC. Labour largest party

    That’s the only one Tory’s had wasn’t it?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660
    edited May 2022
    This thread has gone off to the Hotel Jobbie to drown its sorrows like the Edinburgh Tory and Unionist cooncillors.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,150

    @susannareid100
    Jeremy Corbyn describes the police investigation into allegations Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer broke covid rules “very serious” and “a huge development”.


    https://twitter.com/susannareid100/status/1522622371131240448

    He's right though, in much the same way as a stopped clock is sometimes right.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,072
    Farooq said:

    ...

    Farooq said:

    Lutfur Rahman has won Tower Hamlets.

    54.9% to 45.1% in the run-off

    Something rotten in the state of Tower Hamlets.
    Out of a 500,000 electorate Labour got very creditable 600,000 votes.
    Rahman isn't Labour, though, he defeated the Labour incument.
    It appears that he had a very sizeable personal vote amongst the key 'deceased' demographic.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    meanwhile, back at the ranch, in this case the Lazy B . . . more blowback re: Boeing decision to move HQ to VA.

    from today's Seattle Times ($) commentary by aerospace reporter Dominic Gates:

    . . . . Aviation analyst Richard Aboulafia, of Aerodynamic Advisory, said the FAA would have been more impressed by a return to Seattle, signaling a focus on fixing the huge challenges Boeing faces in its major business of making commercial airplanes.

    “Boeing’s problem is not with government relations,” he said. “I don’t see doubling down the emphasis on D.C. lobbying as a breakthrough moment. It looks like a recipe for more of the same.”

    “Boeing’s pressing need is to restore technical excellence in its most important and neglected business unit, commercial airplanes,” Aboulafia added. “A move back to Seattle would have sent an incredibly powerful message. This is a missed opportunity.”

    U.S. Rep. Peter DeFazio, D-Ore., chair of the House Committee on Transportation, agreed, calling the headquarters move to Arlington “another step in the wrong direction.”

    “Boeing’s problem isn’t a lack of access to government, but rather its ongoing production problems and the failures of management and the board that led to the fatal crashes of the 737 MAX,” DeFazio said in a statement. “Boeing should focus on making safe airplanes — not lobbying federal regulators and Congress.” . . . .

    Easing the decision, which was first reported Thursday morning by The Wall Street Journal, the tax incentives the city of Chicago provided Boeing for going there expired in 2021. . . .

    The pandemic’s massive impact on the company’s business has forced Boeing to sell off real estate . . . .

    Boeing said that in addition to setting up its global headquarters in Arlington, it also “plans to develop a research & technology hub in the area to harness and attract engineering and technical capabilities.” . . . .

    In addition to the Puget Sound region, Boeing now has engineering hubs in North Charleston, South Carolina; St. Louis; Seal Beach, California; as well as India. Its engineering centers in Moscow and Kyiv are currently closed due to the war in Ukraine. . . . .

    Boeing’s move to Chicago in 2001 from its historical Seattle location ripped apart the company’s legacy in the Pacific Northwest.

    The decision to leave Chicago makes clear that move 21 years ago has proved a major flop.

    There was never any real rationale offered for choosing Chicago that made sense for the company’s business. Boeing’s then-CEO, Phil Condit, and its president, Harry Stonecipher, said at the time they wanted the headquarters relocated to a city set apart from Boeing’s main business units. . . . .

    The new headquarters quickly was seen as an ivory tower, separated from the realities and complexities of the work that produced the airplanes and the technology that determined the company’s fate. . . . .
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    Yes but the LD vote had collapsed and Labour got only 30%. Labour is now polling significantly higher than that and the biggest gains today have been from the LDs
    The first thing the conservative mps should do on Monday is to act and elect a new leader and PM
    The only reason I disagree with you Big_G is because that's the first thing they should have done the morning after the North Shropshire by-election.
    Owen Paterson scandal should have been enough.
    The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse wouldn't persuade this lot to act.

    They're more spineless and dishonest than the board of Yorkshire County Cricket Club.
    The old board, surely ...
    Why? Has Gary Ballance finally been sacked?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,699

    RobD said:

    Holden highlighted an invitation for a “quiz and social in-person event” on Facebook from the City of Durham Labour Party, on the same evening that Starmer was drinking beer. Foy encouraged attendees to have a “greasy night”, which is slang for drinking

    Eh? Is that it?

    Remember, Johnson got a FPN for sitting at the cabinet desk while some colleagues working in other rooms came for a few minutes without even eating or drinking. The bar is extremely low!
    The police would not have reopened the investigation without further evidence and to be fair it is unwise to make judgement on it before the police do
    Utter bollox - I suspect they've re-opened because they've got fed up with the management time they are wasting dealing with questions about it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,660

    RobD said:

    Holden highlighted an invitation for a “quiz and social in-person event” on Facebook from the City of Durham Labour Party, on the same evening that Starmer was drinking beer. Foy encouraged attendees to have a “greasy night”, which is slang for drinking

    Eh? Is that it?

    Remember, Johnson got a FPN for sitting at the cabinet desk while some colleagues working in other rooms came for a few minutes without even eating or drinking. The bar is extremely low!
    The police would not have reopened the investigation without further evidence and to be fair it is unwise to make judgement on it before the police do
    Quite a confession from you there. Off to prison you go!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    Carnyx said:

    nico679 said:

    Looking at where the likely transfers will go in the NI results it looks like game over for the DUP .

    Sinn Fein to have the largest share of the vote and most assembly members . And in Michelle O’Neil they have a very charismatic and charming First Minister .

    It's the second party that really interests me ...
    I think it will be the DUP in second place , I can’t see the Alliance picking up enough transfers .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,232

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    The hot takes from this morning have aged poorly.

    This is a disaster for the Tories.

    But Labour are making no gains. Once again, you're not seeing the bigger story that the opposition is not on course to win. Government loses midterm is a fairly expected result and governments come back from it. Opposition loses midterm is what we expect from parties that aren't going to win.

    We're on course for a 1992 style result with the Tories getting a working majority under a busted flush leader and completely unruly and undisciplined backbenchers worried about losing their majorities in 4 or 5 years.

    The Tories are not going to get 43% of the vote in 2024.

    1992 style result, not actually 1992. David Cameron got a similar working majority with just 37% on less favourable boundaries.
    1992 had a moderately strong Lib Lab understanding of who would fight the Tories where, which the voters tacitly understood. Hence Major's 42% giving a thin majority.

    2015 was peak Lib on Lab war action.
    Whatever the opposite of tactical voting is. Hence Cameron winning on a much lower percentage.

    What do you really think 2024 will be like?

    Starmer is not a winner, sure. But unless the Conservatives properly relaunch, he may not need to be.
    If I was to put specific number ranges I'd guess at:

    Con - 335-340
    Lab - 225-230
    LD - 20-25
    SNP - 40-45

    That's with Boris as leader. If the Tories change leadership then I think the Tories could do a lot better, simply because there's a lot of people who voted Tory in 2019 and 2017 but aren't in that Tory column right now but also haven't been won over by Labour. That column of voters has the potential to deliver another Tory landslide that the blue tick wankers on Twitter won't see coming just like 2015.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,331
    RobD said:

    Holden highlighted an invitation for a “quiz and social in-person event” on Facebook from the City of Durham Labour Party, on the same evening that Starmer was drinking beer. Foy encouraged attendees to have a “greasy night”, which is slang for drinking

    Eh? Is that it?

    Remember, Johnson got a FPN for sitting at the cabinet desk while some colleagues working in other rooms came for a few minutes without even eating or drinking. The bar is extremely low!
    Yes, but the events were 12 months apart and different rules applied, also not an isolated event for the PM.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,679
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    mwadams said:

    DavidL said:



    How do the Tories get these supporters, or people like @Richard_Nabavi or @TSE back? That is what the government needs to focus on. Getting rid of the liar in chief may be a necessary but probably not a sufficient step on its own.

    Can't speak for anyone else, but in my case it's absolutely a necessary step, but as you imply, not enough on its own. They also need to get back to being the party of business and economic sanity, of realism, of honesty and integrity, and start working to undo some of the damage they've done with our main trading partner.

    I'm not holding my breath!
    As another former Tory (council candidate & voter) I can't imagine what they can do to demonstrate that they can be trusted. They have a decade or so of just being "wrong" (IMHO) economically, socially, morally etc. Johnson is a symptom not a cause.

    And how long should Labour have to wait, to be trusted, after they actually elected a traitorous, IRA-supporting, Hamas-hugging, anti-Semitic, Putin-forgiving communist as LEADER? 30 years? More? Corbyn only resigned at the end of 2019. Two and a half years ago

    People forgive and forget pretty quick. Once Boris goes, if he goes, the cavalcade of disapproval will move on

    Only Tony Blair seems to receive perpetual condemnation, for all eternity. A peculiar thing
    On the other hand people only just seem up to forgiving the LDs for the coalition and that was 7 years ago.
    I think the difference is that the boring decent people stuck around when the entry-ists came and tried to purge them from the Labour Party. The Tories seem to have driven everyone decent out.

    And while I am not excited about a Labour Government *in any way* a thorough Tory bloodletting and rebuild is the only way back I see for them.

    I have no torch for Labour, so they only need to be "reasonably sensible for a short period of government" rather than actually earning my trust.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,696
    I guess the major source of discrepancy in interpretation of the results is whether they are traditional "mid-term" ones. If they are, then those who are shrugging them off for the Tories definitely have a point. But for me, so much has changed since 2015 that talking about what is happening now in terms of what happened before is a mistake: the Scottish independence referendum, Brexit, Corbyn, covid and a cost of living squeeze that's only just begun have altered the landscape to a huge extent. Politics will be seen very much in terms of pre- and post-2015 in years to come, I reckon. Obviously, I could be totally wrong. It has been known ;-)
This discussion has been closed.