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Short Odds, Strong Nerves – Local Election Betting 2022 – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,668

    algarkirk said:


    Call them what you like, Motorway service stations are the most horrible places in Britain, so vile that you find yourself longing for another four hours driving on the motorway until you have to stop at another one.
    (Cairn Lodge and Fleet are the honourable exceptions that I have encountered).

    Just building my rep as PB's eccentric - I like motorway service stations, especially Moto. But then I like fast food, and nowadays they have comfortable sofas to sit while you eat, and you can read a book and nobody bothers you no matter how long you stay. I'm just back from a West Country holiday, and driving leisurely back and stopping for a bite and a chapter every now and then made it a very easy run. What seems to be the problem?
    Agree. I love them. They are free, predictable, all human life is there, no pressure to spend money, are open all hours, each has its own ambience. The Economist Christmas edition ran a great article on them of a few years ago, about how they were the ever open still centre of a moving world, and became a world of their own if you inhabited one for long.

    And I love the way they are sometimes fantastically busy, and sometimes empty as the grave.

    South Mimms is almost a town and road system in its own right.

    Some of the treats are off the Motorway system as such. Great Gonerby (if you can find it). Blyth (Notts not Northumberland).

    But nothing compares with Tebay. The Ritz and Dorchester of service stations. Service stations in heaven are all like that.

    Is it a service station?

    https://www.tebayservices.com/
    It is. Gloucester services are pretty good as well though. Strangely enough, operated by the same company.

    https://www.westmorlandfamily.com

    The worst services have to be Hartshead Moor - what a dump.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,347
    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    🇧🇬Parliament has approved a decision to repair 🇺🇦military equipment in Bulgaria

    200 MPs voted in favor, 16 against, 1 abstained.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1521854004707434498

    Thanks Bulgaria, well done! :+1:
    +1

    I'd like to point out that early on in the conflict, I suggested neighbouring countries repairing tanks and other kit as being a good way of helping Ukraine. ;)
    They have a couple of hundred captured Russian tanks to be getting on with, if the Ukranians have sufficient tractors to drag them onto trains.
    Dave Arnold looks at a field of slightly dented T-72s - "Hmmmmmmmm...."

    Lights cutting torch.....
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    Indeed. There has been an impressive string of transfer moves that arguably go back to 2011 when Torres was sold to Chelsea, and the funds were used to buy Suarez.

    Coutinho being sold helped really develop the team nicely with the funds that brought in.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,243
    edited May 2022

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    Jan 2018
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of waste... If I hadn't come to California, I was going to do an app based supplemental trash service. Basically, for people who have a lot of rubbish (you know, like new parents), they'd enter into a subscription and get a certain number of bags, and we'd basically do an Uber for trash service.

    The numbers looked pretty good.

    There should be an Uber for everything.

    There is now an Uber for laundry in London (and elsewhere?). Discovered it when my washing machine broke last month. Laundryheap. They pick up, wash everything (carefully) they dry and iron, then fold or hang and return to your door. Super impressive very slick (you can book it almost to the minute) and not as expensive as you’d think

    They will wipe out hotel laundry services, which charge 5 times as much for exactly the same service only not as good
  • Options

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    Jan 2018
    Paid for using funds made available by selling Coutinho.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    Van Dijk was longer ago than that - January 2018. The only other £50m player since is Allison (July 2018).
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,815
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the subject of waste... If I hadn't come to California, I was going to do an app based supplemental trash service. Basically, for people who have a lot of rubbish (you know, like new parents), they'd enter into a subscription and get a certain number of bags, and we'd basically do an Uber for trash service.

    The numbers looked pretty good.

    There should be an Uber for everything.

    There is now an Uber for laundry in London (and elsewhere?). Discovered it when my washing machine broke last month. Laundryheap. They pick up, wash everything (carefully) they dry and iron, then fold or hang and return to your door. Super impressive very slick (you can book it almost to the minute) and not as expensive as you’d think

    They will wipe out hotel laundry services, which charge 5 times as much for exactly the same service only not as good
    I know some-one who has a business making "eco-shelters" which allow you to hang your washing out to dry even in wet weather.
  • Options
    At the time in 2018 a lot of Manchester United fan friends of mine teased about what a ridiculous sum of money Liverpool paid for Van Dijk, saying it was far too much for a player who was only a Defender, and how we were "unable" to keep Coutinho.

    They're not laughing now.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    Jan 2018
    Paid for using funds made available by selling Coutinho.
    Not the worst season for transfer business.


  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    Is Tony Blair plotting an 'en marche' come back?

    Seems there is to be a launch next month of a new centre ground 'project' to develop plans for future government. Gauke is involved says John Rentoul. I've read also elsewhere that Philip Collins* is signed up (he wrote a book a couple of years ago along similar lines iirc).


    * before anyone types a word - no, not the rock singer who ruined Genesis.

  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,934
    TimS said:

    algarkirk said:


    Call them what you like, Motorway service stations are the most horrible places in Britain, so vile that you find yourself longing for another four hours driving on the motorway until you have to stop at another one.
    (Cairn Lodge and Fleet are the honourable exceptions that I have encountered).

    Just building my rep as PB's eccentric - I like motorway service stations, especially Moto. But then I like fast food, and nowadays they have comfortable sofas to sit while you eat, and you can read a book and nobody bothers you no matter how long you stay. I'm just back from a West Country holiday, and driving leisurely back and stopping for a bite and a chapter every now and then made it a very easy run. What seems to be the problem?
    Agree. I love them. They are free, predictable, all human life is there, no pressure to spend money, are open all hours, each has its own ambience. The Economist Christmas edition ran a great article on them of a few years ago, about how they were the ever open still centre of a moving world, and became a world of their own if you inhabited one for long.

    And I love the way they are sometimes fantastically busy, and sometimes empty as the grave.

    South Mimms is almost a town and road system in its own right.

    Some of the treats are off the Motorway system as such. Great Gonerby (if you can find it). Blyth (Notts not Northumberland).

    But nothing compares with Tebay. The Ritz and Dorchester of service stations. Service stations in heaven are all like that.

    French service stations are better. Particularly the ones that fill their waspy summer car parks with chip vans on unusually busy Belgian traffic days.

    My favourite French one is Aire de Chateauvilain/Orgues in Haute Marne. In the woods, nice range of restaurants if you're in no hurry, and plenty of outdoor seating.
    I remember the first time I went to France on a coach holiday. We stopped at a fairly normal looking services place and all decanted expecting some chips and greasy 'meat'. Instead I had a 'hot dog' which was made from half a fresh baguette quickly hollowed out with the handle of a wooden spoon, then slathered inside with some amazing mustard and a huge delicious pork sausage plopped in it.

    I've been chasing that hot dog experience ever since.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    Hmm. Laundryheap is an interesting company.

    Started in 2014 in the UK now expanding fast around the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundryheap_(company)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242
    algarkirk said:


    Call them what you like, Motorway service stations are the most horrible places in Britain, so vile that you find yourself longing for another four hours driving on the motorway until you have to stop at another one.
    (Cairn Lodge and Fleet are the honourable exceptions that I have encountered).

    Just building my rep as PB's eccentric - I like motorway service stations, especially Moto. But then I like fast food, and nowadays they have comfortable sofas to sit while you eat, and you can read a book and nobody bothers you no matter how long you stay. I'm just back from a West Country holiday, and driving leisurely back and stopping for a bite and a chapter every now and then made it a very easy run. What seems to be the problem?
    Agree. I love them. They are free, predictable, all human life is there, no pressure to spend money, are open all hours, each has its own ambience. The Economist Christmas edition ran a great article on them of a few years ago, about how they were the ever open still centre of a moving world, and became a world of their own if you inhabited one for long.

    And I love the way they are sometimes fantastically busy, and sometimes empty as the grave.

    South Mimms is almost a town and road system in its own right.

    Some of the treats are off the Motorway system as such. Great Gonerby (if you can find it). Blyth (Notts not Northumberland).

    But nothing compares with Tebay. The Ritz and Dorchester of service stations. Service stations in heaven are all like that.

    I think Gloucester's actually better than Tebay. Owned by the same company, and designed with a few improvements based on their experience there.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    Leon said:

    Hmm. Laundryheap is an interesting company.

    Started in 2014 in the UK now expanding fast around the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundryheap_(company)

    My God, this looks tempting as I glance across from my Apple screen to the huge basket of unironed washing sitting on the floor.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited May 2022
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    So what have they got that Ukraine hasn't?
  • Options
    BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,447
    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    One of the ironies in all this, given the twitterings of the Remainer crowd, is that the EU powers seem so cynical while the UK actually possesses a moral compass with regard to its foreign policy. At least that's how it appears. Maybe the French and Germans have more to lose if there isn't a swift return to "business as usual"? And the Italians must be smarting from the loss of such a lucrative luxury goods market?
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Biden can't unilaterally increase the size of the Court, but Congress can. It's legal: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/05/1034494416/the-case-for-court-packing-as-a-way-to-promote-democracy Whether it would fly, whether they could get the votes in the Senate to swerve a filibuster, are different questions.

    Nigelb probably right, Senate too tight to get it passed.
    Nigelb possibly wrong if GOP senators visited WH indicating they are not on side of Roe v Wade overturned, which a handful may feel from their own gut politics.

    Should we presume all the GOP senators are on board with abortion becoming illegal? Without trawling through each ones position on it, at least a handful may be for the status quo? Especially if RCS is right in claiming 70% of voters in favour of status quo?
    I don't think any Republican Senators would go along with court-packing, but, yes, there are a few Republican Senators who are pro-choice: Susan Collins (Maine, who hangs on even though the state usually votes Dem), Shelley Moore Capito (West Virginia) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska, practically in constant revolt with her party, with frequent rumours she'll cross the floor). So, 3/8 female Republican Senators are pro-choice versus 0/42 men.
    Is that all? Just three? 😔
    What would be interesting is *any* Republicans crossed the floor - a lot of Biden's legislation is held hostage to the "moderate" Dems in the Senate

    Joe "Rollin' Coal" Manchin in particular....
    I don't expect much more than performative outrage from them - like Collin's claims yesterday that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch misled her during their confirmation.

    Like Manchin, Collins and Murkowski have enjoyed very successful careers badmouthing their party's policies to the right audience. Though unlike Manchin, they don't very often vote against it, especially when it might mean burning bridges..
    It should have been obvious to anyone with two braincells to rub together that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch were lying toerags who would tear up Roe vs Wade the minute they had a chance. I'm kind of sick of these "moderate Republicans" who pretend to be nice reasonable people then vote with the Gilead crowd that runs their party 90% of the time.
    On stuffing the court I am conflicted. The Republicans have acted in such bad faith that I half think that anything goes now. On the other hand if both sides trash the normal political conventions then the US will inevitably slide into a really bad place. Maybe it is better to stick to the rules even if that places you at a disadvantage, do at least some semblance of civilised democracy is maintained.
    Are you still whining about the Garland delay? Using the power of agenda setting is politics101. There’s no bad faith at all - is aggressive sportsmanship
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:


    Call them what you like, Motorway service stations are the most horrible places in Britain, so vile that you find yourself longing for another four hours driving on the motorway until you have to stop at another one.
    (Cairn Lodge and Fleet are the honourable exceptions that I have encountered).

    Just building my rep as PB's eccentric - I like motorway service stations, especially Moto. But then I like fast food, and nowadays they have comfortable sofas to sit while you eat, and you can read a book and nobody bothers you no matter how long you stay. I'm just back from a West Country holiday, and driving leisurely back and stopping for a bite and a chapter every now and then made it a very easy run. What seems to be the problem?
    Agree. I love them. They are free, predictable, all human life is there, no pressure to spend money, are open all hours, each has its own ambience. The Economist Christmas edition ran a great article on them of a few years ago, about how they were the ever open still centre of a moving world, and became a world of their own if you inhabited one for long.

    And I love the way they are sometimes fantastically busy, and sometimes empty as the grave.

    South Mimms is almost a town and road system in its own right.

    Some of the treats are off the Motorway system as such. Great Gonerby (if you can find it). Blyth (Notts not Northumberland).

    But nothing compares with Tebay. The Ritz and Dorchester of service stations. Service stations in heaven are all like that.

    I think Gloucester's actually better than Tebay. Owned by the same company, and designed with a few improvements based on their experience there.
    Badminton bound tomorrow, yay, so I'll drop in and report.
  • Options

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    It's van Dijk, I think given names/nicknames on shirts should be punishable by death

    I blame Chiqarito (the player not the TexMex restaurant)
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Get the vote out to stop Gilead!

  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,215
    edited May 2022

    Leon said:

    Hmm. Laundryheap is an interesting company.

    Started in 2014 in the UK now expanding fast around the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundryheap_(company)

    My God, this looks tempting as I glance across from my Apple screen to the huge basket of unironed washing sitting on the floor.
    It was a bloody godsend when my washing machine went kaput

    A very big load cost about £20 IIRC. They price it by kilogram

    The ironing in particular is super welcome, as is the precision of the collection and delivery times

    A posh hotel would have charged £60-£80
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Biden can't unilaterally increase the size of the Court, but Congress can. It's legal: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/05/1034494416/the-case-for-court-packing-as-a-way-to-promote-democracy Whether it would fly, whether they could get the votes in the Senate to swerve a filibuster, are different questions.

    Nigelb probably right, Senate too tight to get it passed.
    Nigelb possibly wrong if GOP senators visited WH indicating they are not on side of Roe v Wade overturned, which a handful may feel from their own gut politics.

    Should we presume all the GOP senators are on board with abortion becoming illegal? Without trawling through each ones position on it, at least a handful may be for the status quo? Especially if RCS is right in claiming 70% of voters in favour of status quo?
    I don't think any Republican Senators would go along with court-packing, but, yes, there are a few Republican Senators who are pro-choice: Susan Collins (Maine, who hangs on even though the state usually votes Dem), Shelley Moore Capito (West Virginia) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska, practically in constant revolt with her party, with frequent rumours she'll cross the floor). So, 3/8 female Republican Senators are pro-choice versus 0/42 men.
    Is that all? Just three? 😔
    What would be interesting is *any* Republicans crossed the floor - a lot of Biden's legislation is held hostage to the "moderate" Dems in the Senate

    Joe "Rollin' Coal" Manchin in particular....
    I don't expect much more than performative outrage from them - like Collin's claims yesterday that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch misled her during their confirmation.

    Like Manchin, Collins and Murkowski have enjoyed very successful careers badmouthing their party's policies to the right audience. Though unlike Manchin, they don't very often vote against it, especially when it might mean burning bridges..
    It should have been obvious to anyone with two braincells to rub together that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch were lying toerags who would tear up Roe vs Wade the minute they had a chance. I'm kind of sick of these "moderate Republicans" who pretend to be nice reasonable people then vote with the Gilead crowd that runs their party 90% of the time.
    On stuffing the court I am conflicted. The Republicans have acted in such bad faith that I half think that anything goes now. On the other hand if both sides trash the normal political conventions then the US will inevitably slide into a really bad place. Maybe it is better to stick to the rules even if that places you at a disadvantage, do at least some semblance of civilised democracy is maintained.
    Are you still whining about the Garland delay? Using the power of agenda setting is politics101. There’s no bad faith at all - is aggressive sportsmanship
    Really, the whole problem is that the American constitutional settlement is as much use as Boris Johnson's chastity belt. It was a lash up in 1788 and is even more so now.

    With hindsight, it was a truly terrible mistake to not mandate that there had to be a full revision of the constitution in 20 years, rather than saying there could be one every twenty years.

    But the Americans are still obsessed with it.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Hospitals

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,444

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    It's van Dijk, I think given names/nicknames on shirts should be punishable by death

    I blame Chiqarito (the player not the TexMex restaurant)
    Big Virg has solid reasons for having Virgil on his shirt.

    https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-does-van-dijk-have-virgil-on-his-liverpool-shirt/1b6sqx79miu2z1b6ewg9vwoi0m
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    Deaths

    image
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,226
    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    So what have they got that Ukraine hasn't?
    Depends what the word 'aid' actually means though doesn't it.

    One thing those countries do have is the Baltic. Stopping total Russian domination of the Baltic would have been a long standing British aim I would have thought off the top of my head given the North Sea is next to it.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,953
    Mini thread, couple of quick observations for the Cons going into #LocalElections tomorrow. Lots of pretty negative indicators for them it's fair to say.

    1/ 63% dissatisfied with the job Johnson is doing as PM (54% wanted him to resign post Covid fines)
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1521884095332200448/photo/1
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    It's van Dijk, I think given names/nicknames on shirts should be punishable by death

    I blame Chiqarito (the player not the TexMex restaurant)
    Amen to that - except for Brazilians, because their use of nicknames is just The Done Thing. (But why does Allison have "A. Becker" on his back?)

    Otherwise, surname only unless there's a need for a clarifying initial.

    And while we're on it, numbers 1-11 should be reserved for players in the traditional positions.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    COVID Summary

    - In Hospital - Down
    - MV beds - Down
    - Admissions - Down
    - Admissions R - stable at around 0.85
    - Deaths - Down

    image
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003
    A totally anecdotal report from running through a poorer area of Huntingdon and leafy Godmanchester:

    Huntingdon (just to the south of the Oxmoor estate): 1 rather limp-looking Conservative sign, one erect Labour one, and a Lib Dem diamond outside a posh-looking house.

    'Posh' part of Godmanchester: Lib Dem orange everywhere. Three on the same street.

    Make of that what you will.
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    Applicant said:

    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    It's pretty astonishing that they haven't spent more than £50m on a single player - or more than £100m in a single season - for the last three years.
    Virgil???
    It's van Dijk, I think given names/nicknames on shirts should be punishable by death

    I blame Chiqarito (the player not the TexMex restaurant)
    Big Virg has solid reasons for having Virgil on his shirt.

    https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/why-does-van-dijk-have-virgil-on-his-liverpool-shirt/1b6sqx79miu2z1b6ewg9vwoi0m
    Not solid enough to actually change his name, though.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Biden can't unilaterally increase the size of the Court, but Congress can. It's legal: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/05/1034494416/the-case-for-court-packing-as-a-way-to-promote-democracy Whether it would fly, whether they could get the votes in the Senate to swerve a filibuster, are different questions.

    Nigelb probably right, Senate too tight to get it passed.
    Nigelb possibly wrong if GOP senators visited WH indicating they are not on side of Roe v Wade overturned, which a handful may feel from their own gut politics.

    Should we presume all the GOP senators are on board with abortion becoming illegal? Without trawling through each ones position on it, at least a handful may be for the status quo? Especially if RCS is right in claiming 70% of voters in favour of status quo?
    I don't think any Republican Senators would go along with court-packing, but, yes, there are a few Republican Senators who are pro-choice: Susan Collins (Maine, who hangs on even though the state usually votes Dem), Shelley Moore Capito (West Virginia) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska, practically in constant revolt with her party, with frequent rumours she'll cross the floor). So, 3/8 female Republican Senators are pro-choice versus 0/42 men.
    Is that all? Just three? 😔
    What would be interesting is *any* Republicans crossed the floor - a lot of Biden's legislation is held hostage to the "moderate" Dems in the Senate

    Joe "Rollin' Coal" Manchin in particular....
    I don't expect much more than performative outrage from them - like Collin's claims yesterday that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch misled her during their confirmation.

    Like Manchin, Collins and Murkowski have enjoyed very successful careers badmouthing their party's policies to the right audience. Though unlike Manchin, they don't very often vote against it, especially when it might mean burning bridges..
    It should have been obvious to anyone with two braincells to rub together that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch were lying toerags who would tear up Roe vs Wade the minute they had a chance. I'm kind of sick of these "moderate Republicans" who pretend to be nice reasonable people then vote with the Gilead crowd that runs their party 90% of the time.
    On stuffing the court I am conflicted. The Republicans have acted in such bad faith that I half think that anything goes now. On the other hand if both sides trash the normal political conventions then the US will inevitably slide into a really bad place. Maybe it is better to stick to the rules even if that places you at a disadvantage, do at least some semblance of civilised democracy is maintained.
    Are you still whining about the Garland delay? Using the power of agenda setting is politics101. There’s no bad faith at all - is aggressive sportsmanship
    The biggest error was RBG not resigning under Obama or even Clinton. Having an 88-year-old serving the court was always going to be a liability.

    That said, the actuarial risk for the next few years is with the conservatives.

    If we get a Republican President and Senate in 2024, expect Roberts, Thomas and Alito to all stand down.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,003

    Leon said:

    Hmm. Laundryheap is an interesting company.

    Started in 2014 in the UK now expanding fast around the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundryheap_(company)

    My God, this looks tempting as I glance across from my Apple screen to the huge basket of unironed washing sitting on the floor.
    Why is the make of screen relevant? Does using an Apple screen kaput your eyes so much that you cannot use an iron? Or does the monitor use new Apple iSenseless to detect you are doing ironing, and that you are therefore an inferior pleb who should not be able to use their products? ;)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    Macron's pre-election gambits to bring Putin to the table and constant phone calls to look like a statesman is why I mention France. Post election there seems to be less of this, yet the French are also dragging their heels on sanctions and lots of people are saying they are constantly trying to "make peace" with Putin so they can resume BAU with Russia.

    Agreed on the specifics of the missiles offered, seemingly it would eliminate any naval superiority that the Russians currently enjoy and potentially bring Crimea into play for Ukraine.

    I think in 10 years when we look back on what was done and not done the UK government will rightly say they didn't compromise with a war criminal for economic reasons (and it's true, the UK sanctions on Russia are significantly dragging on the economy) while the same won't be said in Paris and Berlin who seem all too ready to rehabilitate Putin to ensure no interruption of gas supplies and to keep selling dishwashers to middle class Russians or handbags to the wives and daughters of the oligarchy.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,242

    Leon said:

    Hmm. Laundryheap is an interesting company.

    Started in 2014 in the UK now expanding fast around the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundryheap_(company)

    My God, this looks tempting as I glance across from my Apple screen to the huge basket of unironed washing sitting on the floor.
    Why is the make of screen relevant? Does using an Apple screen kaput your eyes so much that you cannot use an iron? Or does the monitor use new Apple iSenseless to detect you are doing ironing, and that you are therefore an inferior pleb who should not be able to use their products? ;)
    With Apples, it's not the screen that matters, it's what's in cider.
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525
    Sandpit said:

    biggles said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    Liverpool will not win the tetralogy but this is a nice stat.

    Liverpool are the first English team to reach 10 European Cup / Champions League finals:

    10 - Liverpool
    9
    8
    7
    6
    5 - Man Utd
    4
    3 - Chelsea
    2 - Nottingham Forest
    1 - Arsenal, Aston Villa, Leeds United, Man City, Tottenham


    https://twitter.com/WinnerpoolLFC/status/1521622071209603072

    Wait - so we are using historic competitions now? So we can stop just referring to the Premier League era as if football didn't exist in 1993?
    We not only can, but should. While we're at it let's start calling it 'League Division 1' again. And also rename the Champions League 'the European Cup'. The old names were both better and more accurate.


    A pet hate of mine is things changing their names.
    Like PB posters, you mean?
    Ha - well two obvious examples there - one changed for understandable reasons, the other because doing so is part of the whole persona. And a few less well known examples. I don't mind that. I'm mainly thinking of sports teams, stadiums, brands, etc - where the implication is that the public should be pleased and excited about the name changes.
    Also motorway service stations. There was a wave of that a couple of decades back, where it was decided* that motorway service stations should be free to call themselves what they wanted, and they went from nice poetic names** like Hilton Park to horrible and not even particularly geographically accurate names like Birmingham North. Interestingly, most subsequently changed their names back again. People like to call things what they are called.

    *whose decision was this? It feels like a New Labour thing, though it could just as well have been scratching-the-cupboard-for-new-ideas Majorism.

    **I don't know which particular civil servant was responsible for this - I'd like to think there has only ever been one - but names for service stations are one of the small joys of living in Britain. Little milestones on your journey: Frankley - Strensham - Michaelwood - Gordano - Sedgemoor - Bridgwater - Taunton Deane - Cullompton - the names going from 'just started' Midlands to 'nearly there' south west as you go. There is almost no more evocative description of a journey to a childhood holiday than that. [I've omitted Gloucester, splendid though it is, as a johnny-come-lately and quite a boringly named one at that.] And you could do the same for any big motorway.
    Scratchwood-Toddington-Newport Pagnell - Rothersthorpe - Watford Gap - Leicester Forest East - Trowell - Tibshelf - Woodall - Woolley Edge. [I know Tibshelf is a johnny-come-lately too, but it was meant to be there almost from the start - and they kept the planned name even though by then they were free to call it something boring like 'Chesterfield South'.]
    I'm with you.

    There is a special place in hell for anyone who adopts changed football stadium names. All the horrific 'sponsored' stadiums have a proper name (e.g. Eastlands, Ashburton Grove). The worst one of all is the 'King Power' – which appears to be named after an obscure Thai travel agent and which the fans apparently actually use! I refer to it only as Filbert Way.
    It was the Walkers Stadium before the Thais bought it. King Power are a chain of Duty Free in SE Asia.

    The Thais are such great owners, not just for the investment in the club but also for club traditions and culture that fans are happy to call it the King Power out of respect for the family.

    I suspect that we are the only Premiership team that sings in praise of our owners:

    "Vichai had a dream,
    To build a football team,
    He came from Thailand,
    Now he's one of our own."
    The odd thing is that many Leicester fans apparently actually call it The King Power – surely an even worse name than naming a ground after a packet of very mediocre crisps.

    Filbert Way is its proper name and has the benefit of heritage unlike the truly dismal sponsor names.
    Leicester fans love their owners, and for good reason.
    It's rare to get good owners in football, so it's great to appreciate those who are.

    LFC fans are rightly quite happy with FSG too. Far better than Hicks and Gillette who were not the best a fan could get.
    The amazing thing about what Liverpool have done in the past few years, is that the growth has been organic. They’ve developed players and not been afraid to sell them for big money to invest back in the team, and haven’t taken the Chelsea / MC approach of simply throwing money at star signings.
    I'm a big fan of everything Klopp has done at Liverpool. but t's a bit of a stretch to say that they have done things totally organically.

    In the year before the City takeover, Liverpool had revenues of double Man City, and a wage bill of £77m. For comparison, the average outside the top six was £34m, and Man City's was £36m.

    In terms of finances, they were already in a different league to all but the rest of the Big Four at the time. However you feel about Man City's finances, there was no way they could have competed with Liverpool without a cash injection.

    While you could argue that Liverpool were in this position because of historical success, their main period of dominance came in a 26 year period when they won 13 titles, after a big cash injection under Bill Shankly (In comparison they won just 6 titles in the other 100 years of their existence - starting to sound familiar?).

    The money that helped Shankly improve Liverpool, from a team that had spent nearly a decade in the second division team to the one that would start winning league titles, would appear to be minor compared to today's big fees, but given the rate at which transfers have inflated it was a huge capital injection. In terms of football transfer inflation, it would be the equivalent of a Championship club starting to buy multiple £40m players today.

    And of course, once you're on top for a couple of decades, "new money" becomes "old money" and the rest is "history".
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,541
    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Yes. Courts are not places for closing down the debate in contested issues. That is the job of politics in a democratic society. The same people who support a court process when it is on their side suddenly start attacking the process when it isn't. This is logical nonsense. Only the process of politics, voters, mandates and accountability can sort it.

    BTW on abortion, both extremes want to pretend it isn't a contested issue because the truth is obvious. It's, in a way, like Brexit/Remain. There is such a strong case on BOTH sides that each side needs to be in denial about it.

  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,225
    MISTY said:

    Omnium said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:
    You can add many furious tory voters to that coalition.

    What would be the main and major differences in policy between this government and a lib-lab coalition?
    Not much at all. The government is failing precisely because they've plunged to the left.

    LibLab would clearly do a windfall tax. Anything sentient knows that's a bad idea, but I suspect that a very mild evisceration could be agreed with the big beasts.

    Otherwise, there's no difference.
    Johnson's calculation is he can go as far left as he wants to keep himself in power because there is nothing to his right.

    Its one of the the coldest, most nakedly self interested calculations any PM has ever made, that I can see.
    The focus of a government of the left would be reducing inequalities of class, race and gender. I don't see that with this administration. I think what you might be doing - and tbf people on the right do often make this mistake - is just associating "left" with sky high government borrowing.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    So what have they got that Ukraine hasn't?
    The JEF - UK Joint Expeditionary Force agreement. See Wiki.


  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,744

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    Thats a turnip for the books, lets hope nuclear war does not finnish us off.
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Hmm. Laundryheap is an interesting company.

    Started in 2014 in the UK now expanding fast around the world

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laundryheap_(company)

    My God, this looks tempting as I glance across from my Apple screen to the huge basket of unironed washing sitting on the floor.
    Why is the make of screen relevant? Does using an Apple screen kaput your eyes so much that you cannot use an iron? Or does the monitor use new Apple iSenseless to detect you are doing ironing, and that you are therefore an inferior pleb who should not be able to use their products? ;)
    With Apples, it's not the screen that matters, it's what's in cider.
    There was a young lady from Hyde
    Who are too many apples and died
    The apples fermented
    Inside the lamented
    And made cider inside her inside
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    I don’t know if it’s possible, but it would be good to see an international effort from customer nations, to ensure safe passage of export ships from Odesa.

    If the Ukranian land-based anti-ship missiles can cover out to the 12-mile limit, various navies could escort the ships from there out of the Black Sea.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Yes. Courts are not places for closing down the debate in contested issues. That is the job of politics in a democratic society. The same people who support a court process when it is on their side suddenly start attacking the process when it isn't. This is logical nonsense. Only the process of politics, voters, mandates and accountability can sort it.

    BTW on abortion, both extremes want to pretend it isn't a contested issue because the truth is obvious. It's, in a way, like Brexit/Remain. There is such a strong case on BOTH sides that each side needs to be in denial about it.

    Those who seek to use the law to legislate should consider what has happened in the US.

    The Supreme Court is another legislative chamber, with rather undemocratic election methods. And it has veto rights over the other chambers of the legislature.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,298
    Scott_xP said:

    Mini thread, couple of quick observations for the Cons going into #LocalElections tomorrow. Lots of pretty negative indicators for them it's fair to say.

    1/ 63% dissatisfied with the job Johnson is doing as PM (54% wanted him to resign post Covid fines)
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1521884095332200448/photo/1

    The big question tomorrow is not so much how poor the conservative perception is but is labour any better and if so by how much

    This weekend will be interesting where I expect the lib dems to do very well but not sure about labour
  • Options
    MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    kinabalu said:

    MISTY said:

    Omnium said:

    MISTY said:

    Scott_xP said:
    You can add many furious tory voters to that coalition.

    What would be the main and major differences in policy between this government and a lib-lab coalition?
    Not much at all. The government is failing precisely because they've plunged to the left.

    LibLab would clearly do a windfall tax. Anything sentient knows that's a bad idea, but I suspect that a very mild evisceration could be agreed with the big beasts.

    Otherwise, there's no difference.
    Johnson's calculation is he can go as far left as he wants to keep himself in power because there is nothing to his right.

    Its one of the the coldest, most nakedly self interested calculations any PM has ever made, that I can see.
    The focus of a government of the left would be reducing inequalities of class, race and gender. I don't see that with this administration. I think what you might be doing - and tbf people on the right do often make this mistake - is just associating "left" with sky high government borrowing.
    Maybe you have a point.

    Sky high borrowing, sky high taxation, accelerating inflation and falling living standards.

  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive polling for The Telegraph on Tuesday suggested that the Conservatives are on track to lose nearly 550 seats in this week’s elections.

    🏙️They could also lose control of councils in London, including Wandsworth and Westminster
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/02/tories-set-lose-550-seats-worst-local-election-performance-generation/

    Theresa May lost over 1000 council seats in 2019, even 550 losses would not be that bad
    Hang on: doesn't the starting point matter?

    If Theresa May was defending 5,000 seats, and lost 1,000, that would be one-in-five.
    If Boris Johnson was defending 1,000 seats, and lost 500, that would be one-in-two.

    Plus you also need to look at how well you did last time (were you running at 50% in the polls, or 15%)?
    HYUFD abusing stats to ramp his tribe? I'm shocked.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,229
    Evening all, and what a beautiful evening it is. Managed to do at least something every day this week on my business centre project, even if its only cleaning up mung or removing junk to be able to de-mung the following day.

    Still a long list of jobs to do but so many of them are now cosmetic. A few jobs to do (like remove the remains of the night safe) then the rest is cosmetic and buy a load of desks and chairs and plants and environment shit.

    Oh yeah, t'internet. Will talk to Openreach about the existing super-high fibre cable thats already installed and see if they want to give me a deal. Even taking 10% of its supposed 1GB up/down would be fine, and when I asked last year they wanted something insane like £900 a month...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited May 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    Mini thread, couple of quick observations for the Cons going into #LocalElections tomorrow. Lots of pretty negative indicators for them it's fair to say.

    1/ 63% dissatisfied with the job Johnson is doing as PM (54% wanted him to resign post Covid fines)
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1521884095332200448/photo/1

    The big question tomorrow is not so much how poor the conservative perception is but is labour any better and if so by how much

    This weekend will be interesting where I expect the lib dems to do very well but not sure about labour
    I predict a good night for independents, Greens, LDs and various NIMBY groups.

    I predict a poor night for Conseravtives, as expected in mid-term with economic difficulties in the news.

    The difficult one to call is Labour, I have a feeling they’ll do no better than stand still, and there’s a possibility they could go backwards.

    The pressure could be on Starmer as much as Johnson by the weekend.

    Blair made thousands of council gains when in opposition.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    I don’t know if it’s possible, but it would be good to see an international effort from customer nations, to ensure safe passage of export ships from Odesa.

    If the Ukranian land-based anti-ship missiles can cover out to the 12-mile limit, various navies could escort the ships from there out of the Black Sea.
    Isn't the Black Sea closed to all military ships except those with a home port there until the war is finished?
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 9,618

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    Thats a turnip for the books, lets hope nuclear war does not finnish us off.
    We seem to be happily playing at the harder line end of the spectrum vs Russia and whilst my natural cynicism makes me assume there is something party political going on, I do wonder whether at least some of this might be part of a NATO plan along good-cop-bad-cop lines. It's quite convenient to have some parties that appear to go all-in (as of now, Britain, Poland and arguably Sweden/Finland) while others hold out the tantalising carrot of reconciliation and dialogue (Germany, France, Italy, Turkey) and the actual big cheese (USA) allows these countries to carry out the strategy by proxy.

    If everyone was being as outspoken and belligerent as Britain then this might back Putin into a MAD corner. IF they were all as apparently dovish as Germany he might get cocky. This way we keep him guessing.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,319
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:


    Call them what you like, Motorway service stations are the most horrible places in Britain, so vile that you find yourself longing for another four hours driving on the motorway until you have to stop at another one.
    (Cairn Lodge and Fleet are the honourable exceptions that I have encountered).

    Just building my rep as PB's eccentric - I like motorway service stations, especially Moto. But then I like fast food, and nowadays they have comfortable sofas to sit while you eat, and you can read a book and nobody bothers you no matter how long you stay. I'm just back from a West Country holiday, and driving leisurely back and stopping for a bite and a chapter every now and then made it a very easy run. What seems to be the problem?
    Agree. I love them. They are free, predictable, all human life is there, no pressure to spend money, are open all hours, each has its own ambience. The Economist Christmas edition ran a great article on them of a few years ago, about how they were the ever open still centre of a moving world, and became a world of their own if you inhabited one for long.

    And I love the way they are sometimes fantastically busy, and sometimes empty as the grave.

    South Mimms is almost a town and road system in its own right.

    Some of the treats are off the Motorway system as such. Great Gonerby (if you can find it). Blyth (Notts not Northumberland).

    But nothing compares with Tebay. The Ritz and Dorchester of service stations. Service stations in heaven are all like that.

    I think Gloucester's actually better than Tebay. Owned by the same company, and designed with a few improvements based on their experience there.
    It's about a twenty minute drive from my gaff. People go there just to shop and dine. It's not just a convenient pull-off.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    nico679 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    He makes a good point re Dowdens pathetic whining over the alleged Labour Lib Dem pact . Given the Brexit Party didn’t stand candidates in certain seats to help the Tories in 2019.

    Those who want rid of the Tories need to do whatever it takes , and vote tactically if need be .
    Oliver Dowden has about 48hrs left in front line politics 🙂

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLDRu2AxJHg
    Is this the same as when you said Boris was 48 hours from a VONC?
    Or the same as when you said "Macron is toast"?
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,194

    Evening all, and what a beautiful evening it is. Managed to do at least something every day this week on my business centre project, even if its only cleaning up mung or removing junk to be able to de-mung the following day.

    Still a long list of jobs to do but so many of them are now cosmetic. A few jobs to do (like remove the remains of the night safe) then the rest is cosmetic and buy a load of desks and chairs and plants and environment shit.

    Oh yeah, t'internet. Will talk to Openreach about the existing super-high fibre cable thats already installed and see if they want to give me a deal. Even taking 10% of its supposed 1GB up/down would be fine, and when I asked last year they wanted something insane like £900 a month...

    Don't forget to vote tomorrow 👍
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    edited May 2022

    Evening all, and what a beautiful evening it is. Managed to do at least something every day this week on my business centre project, even if its only cleaning up mung or removing junk to be able to de-mung the following day.

    Still a long list of jobs to do but so many of them are now cosmetic. A few jobs to do (like remove the remains of the night safe) then the rest is cosmetic and buy a load of desks and chairs and plants and environment shit.

    Oh yeah, t'internet. Will talk to Openreach about the existing super-high fibre cable thats already installed and see if they want to give me a deal. Even taking 10% of its supposed 1GB up/down would be fine, and when I asked last year they wanted something insane like £900 a month...

    Project sounds like it’s progressing well. Look at a couple of Starlink terminals for your internet, or at least as the backup.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    Thats a turnip for the books, lets hope nuclear war does not finnish us off.
    Er WG! Ok move the clock towards midnight!
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,114
    Leon said:


    Call them what you like, Motorway service stations are the most horrible places in Britain, so vile that you find yourself longing for another four hours driving on the motorway until you have to stop at another one.
    (Cairn Lodge and Fleet are the honourable exceptions that I have encountered).


    Just building my rep as PB's eccentric - I like motorway service stations, especially Moto. But then I like fast food, and nowadays they have comfortable sofas to sit while you eat, and you can read a book and nobody bothers you no matter how long you stay. I'm just back from a West Country holiday, and driving leisurely back and stopping for a bite and a chapter every now and then made it a very easy run. What seems to be the problem?
    They tend to be a bit grimy, they are over-priced, they smell of disgusting greasy fast food like McDs, and the toilets stink and are often dirty. Also, and I know this comment doesn't paint me in a great light, they kind of confront you with the reality that we are not in the main a stylish or especially attractive country and perhaps we could do with eating less fast food, or indeed less food full stop.
    I recommend a visit to the Deep South, then you will realise the Brits are skinny as fuck. Relatively
    Yeah, I have been to Dollywood. Everything is bigger in America.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Evening all, and what a beautiful evening it is. Managed to do at least something every day this week on my business centre project, even if its only cleaning up mung or removing junk to be able to de-mung the following day.

    Still a long list of jobs to do but so many of them are now cosmetic. A few jobs to do (like remove the remains of the night safe) then the rest is cosmetic and buy a load of desks and chairs and plants and environment shit.

    Oh yeah, t'internet. Will talk to Openreach about the existing super-high fibre cable thats already installed and see if they want to give me a deal. Even taking 10% of its supposed 1GB up/down would be fine, and when I asked last year they wanted something insane like £900 a month...

    Don't forget to vote tomorrow 👍
    If he can find a decent candidate
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,194
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Mini thread, couple of quick observations for the Cons going into #LocalElections tomorrow. Lots of pretty negative indicators for them it's fair to say.

    1/ 63% dissatisfied with the job Johnson is doing as PM (54% wanted him to resign post Covid fines)
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1521884095332200448/photo/1

    The big question tomorrow is not so much how poor the conservative perception is but is labour any better and if so by how much

    This weekend will be interesting where I expect the lib dems to do very well but not sure about labour
    I predict a good night for independents, Greens, LDs and various NIMBY groups.

    I predict a poor night for Conseravtives, as expected in mid-term with economic difficulties in the news.

    The difficult one to call is Labour, I have a feeling they’ll do no better than stand still, and there’s a possibility they could go backwards.

    The pressure could be on Starmer as much as Johnson by the weekend.

    Blair made thousands of council gains when in opposition.
    Looks difficult for CON but not a lot of enthusiasm for LAB.
  • Options
    LennonLennon Posts: 1,733

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    I don’t know if it’s possible, but it would be good to see an international effort from customer nations, to ensure safe passage of export ships from Odesa.

    If the Ukranian land-based anti-ship missiles can cover out to the 12-mile limit, various navies could escort the ships from there out of the Black Sea.
    Isn't the Black Sea closed to all military ships except those with a home port there until the war is finished?
    Technically, the Black Sea is international waters (outside the 12mile zone) so you are allowed to be there - the difficulty is that the Turkish Straits are closed so it's going to be challenging to get there. Potentially possible though if your ship is small enough and the countries are amenable - Rhine - Main - Canal - Danube...
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Lennon said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    I don’t know if it’s possible, but it would be good to see an international effort from customer nations, to ensure safe passage of export ships from Odesa.

    If the Ukranian land-based anti-ship missiles can cover out to the 12-mile limit, various navies could escort the ships from there out of the Black Sea.
    Isn't the Black Sea closed to all military ships except those with a home port there until the war is finished?
    Technically, the Black Sea is international waters (outside the 12mile zone) so you are allowed to be there - the difficulty is that the Turkish Straits are closed so it's going to be challenging to get there. Potentially possible though if your ship is small enough and the countries are amenable - Rhine - Main - Canal - Danube...
    Or that whole Apocalypse now airlift thing.

    First of the 9th.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    IshmaelZ said:

    Lennon said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    I don’t know if it’s possible, but it would be good to see an international effort from customer nations, to ensure safe passage of export ships from Odesa.

    If the Ukranian land-based anti-ship missiles can cover out to the 12-mile limit, various navies could escort the ships from there out of the Black Sea.
    Isn't the Black Sea closed to all military ships except those with a home port there until the war is finished?
    Technically, the Black Sea is international waters (outside the 12mile zone) so you are allowed to be there - the difficulty is that the Turkish Straits are closed so it's going to be challenging to get there. Potentially possible though if your ship is small enough and the countries are amenable - Rhine - Main - Canal - Danube...
    Or that whole Apocalypse now airlift thing.

    First of the 9th.
    If seven of nine turns up it'll all be worthwhile.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    geoffw said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    So what have they got that Ukraine hasn't?
    The JEF - UK Joint Expeditionary Force agreement. See Wiki.


    Great joint press conference, Wallace and Antti Kaikkonen, Finnish defence minister.
    https://www.hs.fi/politiikka/art-2000008793077.html
    Click on the video, it's on Helsingin Sanamat's webpage.

  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,243
    I think this is their brand new tank..

    @oryxspioenkop
    #UkraineWar: Russia just lost its first T-90M MBT near Kharkiv. Its destruction comes only days after this variant was first sighted in Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1521893220430622721?s=21&t=o6G649O9S03p9VuviaQnDQ
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interesting thread from an American former DoD insider:

    Essentially the Boris Johnson-lead UK government is acting to politically destroy the "De-escalation faction" in senior positions of the US, French & German governments one advanced military capability at a time.

    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1521619551158509573

    Yes, very interesting thread, especially for the military and strategic aspects of what it says the UK govt is trying to do.
    The biggest recruiting sergeant to destroy the de-escalation faction is Putin himself. Every time we see more war crimes, more horrific actions by Russians in Ukraine and Putin's ugly mug the west gains a new resolve to see this through. The UK has picked correctly here, it's obviously not without tremendous risk yet the government has been proved right time and again to ignore Russian attempts for a temporary ceasefire or some kind of negotiated peace that allows them to annex territory in return for eliminating sanctions. The French and German position of seeking a negotiated "peace" similar to the terms of the 2014 agreement is morally and strategically wrong so it's heartening to see those positions become untenable.
    Yes, I think that's right (although I'm not sure that it's a fair characterisation of the French position).

    What I found particularly interesting though about that thread it that it argues, quite convincingly, that the particular measure of supplying Ukraine with high-performance/long-range anti-ship missiles (combined with good intelligence) could have a wider strategic impact, opening up the export markets for Ukrainian grain. Previously I'd thought of such missiles of being of use only in the sense of making it hard for Russia to mount a seaborne assault.
    I don’t know if it’s possible, but it would be good to see an international effort from customer nations, to ensure safe passage of export ships from Odesa.

    If the Ukranian land-based anti-ship missiles can cover out to the 12-mile limit, various navies could escort the ships from there out of the Black Sea.
    Isn't the Black Sea closed to all military ships except those with a home port there until the war is finished?
    Looking at that thread you begin to see why the UK is right at the top of Putin’s moan list.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,306

    I think this is their brand new tank..

    @oryxspioenkop
    #UkraineWar: Russia just lost its first T-90M MBT near Kharkiv. Its destruction comes only days after this variant was first sighted in Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1521893220430622721?s=21&t=o6G649O9S03p9VuviaQnDQ

    Really? Looks distinctly second hand to me. A real fixer upper.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,970
    Well my walk to the beach was cut short by an apocalyptic storm. Massive hailstones. Drenched.
  • Options
    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    Good article by Curtice and Fisher on their Project National Share for local elections and how that may differ from the National Equivalent Vote by Rallings and Thrasher

    https://electionsetc.com/2022/05/04/understanding-the-local-elections-projected-national-share-pns-in-2022/
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    dixiedean said:

    Well my walk to the beach was cut short by an apocalyptic storm. Massive hailstones. Drenched.

    Net Weather is your friend...

    https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar

    I always check it before heading out.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    As has been noted, a bit of a kick in the teeth to Ukraine. But surprisingly honest, especially whilst trying to convince those two to join.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Mini thread, couple of quick observations for the Cons going into #LocalElections tomorrow. Lots of pretty negative indicators for them it's fair to say.

    1/ 63% dissatisfied with the job Johnson is doing as PM (54% wanted him to resign post Covid fines)
    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1521884095332200448/photo/1

    The big question tomorrow is not so much how poor the conservative perception is but is labour any better and if so by how much

    This weekend will be interesting where I expect the lib dems to do very well but not sure about labour
    I predict a good night for independents, Greens, LDs and various NIMBY groups.

    I predict a poor night for Conseravtives, as expected in mid-term with economic difficulties in the news.

    The difficult one to call is Labour, I have a feeling they’ll do no better than stand still, and there’s a possibility they could go backwards.

    The pressure could be on Starmer as much as Johnson by the weekend.

    Blair made thousands of council gains when in opposition.
    Because Labour did so well last time, it's actually difficult to notch up a lot of seat gains, but I expect a notable improvement in projected national vote share. Contrary to the MRP, I also expect Greens and LDs to do well.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Good article by Curtice and Fisher on their Project National Share for local elections and how that may differ from the National Equivalent Vote by Rallings and Thrasher

    https://electionsetc.com/2022/05/04/understanding-the-local-elections-projected-national-share-pns-in-2022/

    That sentence is like chum in a piranha pool to election nerds, and means absolutely nothing to normal people.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    kle4 said:

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    As has been noted, a bit of a kick in the teeth to Ukraine. But surprisingly honest, especially whilst trying to convince those two to join.
    Why a kick in the teeth? - U.K. Sweden and Finland are part of an explicit military alliance, already. NATO isn’t the only alliance out there…
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,243
    @rcs1000 did you know when you posted your Ohio thread yesterday that it was the 52nd anniversary of the shootings in Ohio today? And was it today where you are when you posted it here last night?

    CSNY
    https://youtu.be/JCS-g3HwXdc

    And my favourite version by the Isley Brothers
    https://youtu.be/39WxCT4U4Vk
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,229
    Sandpit said:

    Evening all, and what a beautiful evening it is. Managed to do at least something every day this week on my business centre project, even if its only cleaning up mung or removing junk to be able to de-mung the following day.

    Still a long list of jobs to do but so many of them are now cosmetic. A few jobs to do (like remove the remains of the night safe) then the rest is cosmetic and buy a load of desks and chairs and plants and environment shit.

    Oh yeah, t'internet. Will talk to Openreach about the existing super-high fibre cable thats already installed and see if they want to give me a deal. Even taking 10% of its supposed 1GB up/down would be fine, and when I asked last year they wanted something insane like £900 a month...

    Project sounds like it’s progressing well. Look at a couple of Starlink terminals for your internet, or at least as the backup.
    No ma'am. Not this far north. Back-up would be 4G router (sat here in the kitchen next to the router and got 39 down 17 up on wifi. 4G is 85 down 29 up...)
  • Options
    StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,045
    kle4 said:

    Britain would come to the aid of Finland and Sweden if they were attacked, whether the countries were members of the military alliance NATO or not, said the British Minister of Defense Ben Wallace on a visit to Niinisalo in Finland

    https://twitter.com/STTuutiset/status/1521844788701667329

    As has been noted, a bit of a kick in the teeth to Ukraine. But surprisingly honest, especially whilst trying to convince those two to join.
    Why a kick in the teeth to Ukraine?

    We are saying that we’d support anyone Russia invaded. Not doing anyone down.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    Oh thank goodness, it's not as though they have a habit of denying the absolutely bloody obvious

    Russia has dismissed speculation that it will declare all-out war in Ukraine in the coming days as "nonsense"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61321799
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    kle4 said:

    Good article by Curtice and Fisher on their Project National Share for local elections and how that may differ from the National Equivalent Vote by Rallings and Thrasher

    https://electionsetc.com/2022/05/04/understanding-the-local-elections-projected-national-share-pns-in-2022/

    That sentence is like chum in a piranha pool to election nerds, and means absolutely nothing to normal people.
    Who let the normal people into PB?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Good article by Curtice and Fisher on their Project National Share for local elections and how that may differ from the National Equivalent Vote by Rallings and Thrasher

    https://electionsetc.com/2022/05/04/understanding-the-local-elections-projected-national-share-pns-in-2022/

    That sentence is like chum in a piranha pool to election nerds, and means absolutely nothing to normal people.
    Who let the normal people into PB?
    Don't worry, they won't be around for long.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,405
    M no
    DavidL said:

    I think this is their brand new tank..

    @oryxspioenkop
    #UkraineWar: Russia just lost its first T-90M MBT near Kharkiv. Its destruction comes only days after this variant was first sighted in Ukraine.

    https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1521893220430622721?s=21&t=o6G649O9S03p9VuviaQnDQ

    Really? Looks distinctly second hand to me. A real fixer upper.
    Looks like the turret is resting, upside down on the hull.

    Guess they haven’t fixed the Jack-In-The-Box problem with Russian tanks, then.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    kle4 said:

    Oh thank goodness, it's not as though they have a habit of denying the absolutely bloody obvious

    Russia has dismissed speculation that it will declare all-out war in Ukraine in the coming days as "nonsense"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61321799

    Gonna be really interesting to see how this plays in Russia.

    A large proportion of the Russian population have so far swallowed the propoganda that this is all about the Donbass Nazis. An all-out declaration of war against Ukraine, could be what turns the Russian population against Putin. I don’t see millions of conscripts signing up voluntarily, put it that way.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited May 2022
    Apologies if this came up earlier, but I had completely missed that conviced election fraud Lutfur Rahman was running again in Tower Hamlets, as his ban for holding elected office has expired. Livingstone is backing him.

    Personally I think if found guilty of such egregious election offences a lifetime ban is the only appropriate punishment. Being a former criminal, sure, stand and win, but a former election criminal? No.

    He seems to be saying he did nothing wrong and was innocent, but also he has learned from his mistakes.

    Hopefully everyone will vote Labour in Tower Hamlets and keep him out.
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,416
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Biden can't unilaterally increase the size of the Court, but Congress can. It's legal: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/05/1034494416/the-case-for-court-packing-as-a-way-to-promote-democracy Whether it would fly, whether they could get the votes in the Senate to swerve a filibuster, are different questions.

    Nigelb probably right, Senate too tight to get it passed.
    Nigelb possibly wrong if GOP senators visited WH indicating they are not on side of Roe v Wade overturned, which a handful may feel from their own gut politics.

    Should we presume all the GOP senators are on board with abortion becoming illegal? Without trawling through each ones position on it, at least a handful may be for the status quo? Especially if RCS is right in claiming 70% of voters in favour of status quo?
    That's about as likely as Tory backbenchers finding the spine to depose Johnson before the local elections.
    Yeah I agree, getting a bit speculative all this.

    But I did like the post where Biden has to think outside the box, and go in hard where they don’t like it up em. Your posts just pour cold water over every suggestion!
    I think term limits would be an excellent and non partisan means of reforming the court. Sadly I don't see any real chance of their being introduced.

    I'd be fine with (though less keen on) court expansion, and while it would be easier to achieve, the Democrats simply don't have the votes, and a failed attempt would probably be worse than none at all.
    Another thing talked about, in excitement of Biden’s election, was adding two new states strongly favouring democrats with their EVs. How long would that take to pull off?
    This bit of fairly desperate (but not entirely unconvincing) speculation is probably the best hope.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/after-abortion-decision-leak-what-can-the-chief-justice-do-now.html
    Actually that’s a very good piece, thanks for posting. Turning it from a binary issue, of conflicting placards being whacked over peoples heads, into a compromise, and saying it’s not that far fetched achieving compromise by peeling off justices from each camp.
  • Options
    AslanAslan Posts: 1,673

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Biden can't unilaterally increase the size of the Court, but Congress can. It's legal: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/05/1034494416/the-case-for-court-packing-as-a-way-to-promote-democracy Whether it would fly, whether they could get the votes in the Senate to swerve a filibuster, are different questions.

    Nigelb probably right, Senate too tight to get it passed.
    Nigelb possibly wrong if GOP senators visited WH indicating they are not on side of Roe v Wade overturned, which a handful may feel from their own gut politics.

    Should we presume all the GOP senators are on board with abortion becoming illegal? Without trawling through each ones position on it, at least a handful may be for the status quo? Especially if RCS is right in claiming 70% of voters in favour of status quo?
    That's about as likely as Tory backbenchers finding the spine to depose Johnson before the local elections.
    Yeah I agree, getting a bit speculative all this.

    But I did like the post where Biden has to think outside the box, and go in hard where they don’t like it up em. Your posts just pour cold water over every suggestion!
    I think term limits would be an excellent and non partisan means of reforming the court. Sadly I don't see any real chance of their being introduced.

    I'd be fine with (though less keen on) court expansion, and while it would be easier to achieve, the Democrats simply don't have the votes, and a failed attempt would probably be worse than none at all.
    Another thing talked about, in excitement of Biden’s election, was adding two new states strongly favouring democrats with their EVs. How long would that take to pull off?
    This bit of fairly desperate (but not entirely unconvincing) speculation is probably the best hope.
    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/05/after-abortion-decision-leak-what-can-the-chief-justice-do-now.html
    Actually that’s a very good piece, thanks for posting. Turning it from a binary issue, of conflicting placards being whacked over peoples heads, into a compromise, and saying it’s not that far fetched achieving compromise by peeling off justices from each camp.
    Sounds like an EU compromise where the threat of a massive loss for one side is a "compromise" when it just becomes a large loss.

    The real problem at the heart of things is that the Republicans have abused procedures to dominate the court. The Democrats should respond in kind, use this outrage to get a bigger Senate majority and expand the court. If they don't it won't just be abortion that is banned, it will be the morning after pill and gay marriage. The Republicans want to turn the US back into a 1950s society that straight, Christian with traditional gender roles. We shouldn't let them.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Yes. Courts are not places for closing down the debate in contested issues. That is the job of politics in a democratic society. The same people who support a court process when it is on their side suddenly start attacking the process when it isn't. This is logical nonsense. Only the process of politics, voters, mandates and accountability can sort it.

    BTW on abortion, both extremes want to pretend it isn't a contested issue because the truth is obvious. It's, in a way, like Brexit/Remain. There is such a strong case on BOTH sides that each side needs to be in denial about it.
    This thing about abortion being a "finely balanced issue with strong arguments on both sides". I don't think so. Let's unpack it.

    One side wants to retain a woman's access to safe and legal abortion but with controls. ie to strike a balance between the rights of the woman and those of the unborn child. The case for this is strong conceptually (it's an underpinning of female empowerment) and also pragmatically (it's status quo, plus all the harm resulting to women who are unhappily pregnant and lacking means and options).

    The other side wants a complete ban. ie to subjugate the rights of the woman to those of the unborn child. No balance. Subjugation of the woman. This is EXTREME and the case for it rests on one thing only - a dogmatic ideological assertion that a full fat human life is created from the moment of conception and to abort it is therefore "murder". That's it. There's nothing else. These people can't debate the issue. All they can do is repeat that assertion like a robot. They're dead from the neck up.

    So, I'm sorry and all, but "strong argument on both sides" my arse. It sounds all nuanced and thoughtful and reasonable to say that but it's utter horseshit. There's no equivalence at all.
    Agreed

    Extreme: no abortions
    Middle ground: abortions when wanted
    Extreme: abortions even if not wanted
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,416

    Applicant said:

    kle4 said:

    Good article by Curtice and Fisher on their Project National Share for local elections and how that may differ from the National Equivalent Vote by Rallings and Thrasher

    https://electionsetc.com/2022/05/04/understanding-the-local-elections-projected-national-share-pns-in-2022/

    That sentence is like chum in a piranha pool to election nerds, and means absolutely nothing to normal people.
    Who let the normal people into PB?
    Don't worry, they won't be around for long.
    But it’s good though because it is the mistake I made last week, misunderstanding projected national from raw vote, maybe there is still a bit of Normal left in me. 😇

    I still remain sceptical exactly how you do a big opinion poll of just Labour areas and few Tory areas, and can extrapolatte that into a reasonable accurate claim as if every area had voted. To start with, those who gave Boris landslide win could soften but still support Boris whilst those voting against Boris in 19 could harden from soft to hard and hard to harder, which is actually a big change in peoples views, but virtually unmeasurable in terms of voting and polling isn’t it?
  • Options
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Yes. Courts are not places for closing down the debate in contested issues. That is the job of politics in a democratic society. The same people who support a court process when it is on their side suddenly start attacking the process when it isn't. This is logical nonsense. Only the process of politics, voters, mandates and accountability can sort it.

    BTW on abortion, both extremes want to pretend it isn't a contested issue because the truth is obvious. It's, in a way, like Brexit/Remain. There is such a strong case on BOTH sides that each side needs to be in denial about it.
    This thing about abortion being a "finely balanced issue with strong arguments on both sides". I don't think so. Let's unpack it.

    One side wants to retain a woman's access to safe and legal abortion but with controls. ie to strike a balance between the rights of the woman and those of the unborn child. The case for this is strong conceptually (it's an underpinning of female empowerment) and also pragmatically (it's status quo, plus all the harm resulting to women who are unhappily pregnant and lacking means and options).

    The other side wants a complete ban. ie to subjugate the rights of the woman to those of the unborn child. No balance. Subjugation of the woman. This is EXTREME and the case for it rests on one thing only - a dogmatic ideological assertion that a full fat human life is created from the moment of conception and to abort it is therefore "murder". That's it. There's nothing else. These people can't debate the issue. All they can do is repeat that assertion like a robot. They're dead from the neck up.

    So, I'm sorry and all, but "strong argument on both sides" my arse. It sounds all nuanced and thoughtful and reasonable to say that but it's utter horseshit. There's no equivalence at all.
    Agreed

    Extreme: no abortions
    Middle ground: abortions when wanted
    Extreme: abortions even if not wanted
    The latter happens in China.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Yes. Courts are not places for closing down the debate in contested issues. That is the job of politics in a democratic society. The same people who support a court process when it is on their side suddenly start attacking the process when it isn't. This is logical nonsense. Only the process of politics, voters, mandates and accountability can sort it.

    BTW on abortion, both extremes want to pretend it isn't a contested issue because the truth is obvious. It's, in a way, like Brexit/Remain. There is such a strong case on BOTH sides that each side needs to be in denial about it.
    This thing about abortion being a "finely balanced issue with strong arguments on both sides". I don't think so. Let's unpack it.

    One side wants to retain a woman's access to safe and legal abortion but with controls. ie to strike a balance between the rights of the woman and those of the unborn child. The case for this is strong conceptually (it's an underpinning of female empowerment) and also pragmatically (it's status quo, plus all the harm resulting to women who are unhappily pregnant and lacking means and options).

    The other side wants a complete ban. ie to subjugate the rights of the woman to those of the unborn child. No balance. Subjugation of the woman. This is EXTREME and the case for it rests on one thing only - a dogmatic ideological assertion that a full fat human life is created from the moment of conception and to abort it is therefore "murder". That's it. There's nothing else. These people can't debate the issue. All they can do is repeat that assertion like a robot. They're dead from the neck up.

    So, I'm sorry and all, but "strong argument on both sides" my arse. It sounds all nuanced and thoughtful and reasonable to say that but it's utter horseshit. There's no equivalence at all.
    Agreed

    Extreme: no abortions
    Middle ground: abortions when wanted
    Extreme: abortions even if not wanted
    The latter happens in China.
    That's not the only time and place it's happened, and it's frightening and wrong.
    Nobody should have control over a woman's reproductive decisions other than the woman herself.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Biden can't unilaterally increase the size of the Court, but Congress can. It's legal: https://www.npr.org/2021/09/05/1034494416/the-case-for-court-packing-as-a-way-to-promote-democracy Whether it would fly, whether they could get the votes in the Senate to swerve a filibuster, are different questions.

    Nigelb probably right, Senate too tight to get it passed.
    Nigelb possibly wrong if GOP senators visited WH indicating they are not on side of Roe v Wade overturned, which a handful may feel from their own gut politics.

    Should we presume all the GOP senators are on board with abortion becoming illegal? Without trawling through each ones position on it, at least a handful may be for the status quo? Especially if RCS is right in claiming 70% of voters in favour of status quo?
    I don't think any Republican Senators would go along with court-packing, but, yes, there are a few Republican Senators who are pro-choice: Susan Collins (Maine, who hangs on even though the state usually votes Dem), Shelley Moore Capito (West Virginia) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska, practically in constant revolt with her party, with frequent rumours she'll cross the floor). So, 3/8 female Republican Senators are pro-choice versus 0/42 men.
    Is that all? Just three? 😔
    What would be interesting is *any* Republicans crossed the floor - a lot of Biden's legislation is held hostage to the "moderate" Dems in the Senate

    Joe "Rollin' Coal" Manchin in particular....
    I don't expect much more than performative outrage from them - like Collin's claims yesterday that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch misled her during their confirmation.

    Like Manchin, Collins and Murkowski have enjoyed very successful careers badmouthing their party's policies to the right audience. Though unlike Manchin, they don't very often vote against it, especially when it might mean burning bridges..
    It should have been obvious to anyone with two braincells to rub together that Kavanaugh and Gorsuch were lying toerags who would tear up Roe vs Wade the minute they had a chance. I'm kind of sick of these "moderate Republicans" who pretend to be nice reasonable people then vote with the Gilead crowd that runs their party 90% of the time.
    On stuffing the court I am conflicted. The Republicans have acted in such bad faith that I half think that anything goes now. On the other hand if both sides trash the normal political conventions then the US will inevitably slide into a really bad place. Maybe it is better to stick to the rules even if that places you at a disadvantage, do at least some semblance of civilised democracy is maintained.
    Are you still whining about the Garland delay? Using the power of agenda setting is politics101. There’s no bad faith at all - is aggressive sportsmanship
    Fuck me, the GOP are still whining about Bork,
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,540
    edited May 2022
    I may have missed it, but does anybody have an exact number of how many council seats are up for grabs tomorrow? Without that figure, it's hard to take a view on performance. E.g. the Tories losing 500 councillors - good or bad? Obviously depends on how many contests there are - 2,000 or 10,000?
  • Options
    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,770
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    algarkirk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Applicant said:

    Nigelb said:

    This leak enquiry is going to be fun, except for those subject to investigation.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/04/supreme-court-leak-probe-faces-slew-of-obstacles-and-unknowns-00029841
    ...Leaks of non-classified information generally are not prosecutable, with very few exceptions,” Painter said. “That’s important to a well-functioning democracy, that leaks are not prosecuted.”

    However, Painter added, the person who breached the court’s confidences should face professional consequences if identified.

    “If a justice intentionally did it, I think that justice could be impeached and removed from office,” he said. “If a clerk did it, they could be dismissed and there might be implications at the bar.”...


    Would be hilarious if it turns out to be Alito - though if it were him, the inquiry would likely be perfunctory and fail to reach a conclusion.

    Imo definitely leaked by supporters of The scrapping of wade v row in June, either over excited oneupmanship, or calculated in making Junes change a fait accompli and yesterdays news.

    Does Biden actually have the power to appoint two additional judges? If so all the pressure will pile on Biden to do that to stop it, and Biden becomes the fall guy wether roe v wade is saved or is dumped.
    Not unilaterally, the power is with Congress. I suspect there are enough Democtratic Senators who realise how foolish it would be to do so, given that the political pendulum will inevitably swing again.
    That is a way to stop the scrapping of Wade v `roe, what other options does Biden have?
    Let Wade v Roe be scrapped, and use it as a great motivator to get the vote out in November?

    Legal abortion (and RvW) is supported by about 70% of voters. If the Republicans manage to move the debate from "Woke" and towards women's reproductive rights, they will have scored an enormous own goal.
    Yes. Courts are not places for closing down the debate in contested issues. That is the job of politics in a democratic society. The same people who support a court process when it is on their side suddenly start attacking the process when it isn't. This is logical nonsense. Only the process of politics, voters, mandates and accountability can sort it.

    BTW on abortion, both extremes want to pretend it isn't a contested issue because the truth is obvious. It's, in a way, like Brexit/Remain. There is such a strong case on BOTH sides that each side needs to be in denial about it.
    This thing about abortion being a "finely balanced issue with strong arguments on both sides". I don't think so. Let's unpack it.

    One side wants to retain a woman's access to safe and legal abortion but with controls. ie to strike a balance between the rights of the woman and those of the unborn child. The case for this is strong conceptually (it's an underpinning of female empowerment) and also pragmatically (it's status quo, plus all the harm resulting to women who are unhappily pregnant and lacking means and options).

    The other side wants a complete ban. ie to subjugate the rights of the woman to those of the unborn child. No balance. Subjugation of the woman. This is EXTREME and the case for it rests on one thing only - a dogmatic ideological assertion that a full fat human life is created from the moment of conception and to abort it is therefore "murder". That's it. There's nothing else. These people can't debate the issue. All they can do is repeat that assertion like a robot. They're dead from the neck up.

    So, I'm sorry and all, but "strong argument on both sides" my arse. It sounds all nuanced and thoughtful and reasonable to say that but it's utter horseshit. There's no equivalence at all.
    Agreed

    Extreme: no abortions
    Middle ground: abortions when wanted
    Extreme: abortions even if not wanted
    "Abortions For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others" would be a good compromise

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIgSTjzrmRg
This discussion has been closed.