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How different pollsters ask the “best PM” question – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited March 2022 in General
imageHow different pollsters ask the “best PM” question – politicalbetting.com

One of the standard polling questions that the vast majority of political opinion polls ask is on respondents’ preference for prime minister. These are how the different pollsters approach it:

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    How is "at this moment" any different to asking "if there were a general election today"?
  • другий
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited March 2022
    As Blackadder said, oh the agony of choice.

    The issue for Johnson, however, is that he is now regarded as a criminal and Starmer has spent a career locking criminals up (albeit with rather mixed success).
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    How is "at this moment" any different to asking "if there were a general election today"?

    The word "IF"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    How is "at this moment" any different to asking "if there were a general election today"?

    Perhaps the latter emphasises the party aspect more? (In both senses, perhaps, even.)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Does it matter if they’re consistent through time?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    How is "at this moment" any different to asking "if there were a general election today"?

    The word "IF"
    A change of PM/general election are both predicated on something that is patently not going to happen.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    As Blackadder said, oh the agony of choice.

    The issue for Johnson, however, is that he is now regarded as a criminal and Starmer has spent a career locking criminals up (albeit with rather mixed success).

    De Pfeffel has a cunning plan. He is the Baldric de nos jours.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    другий

    Второй, surely?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    kle4 said:

    MOD

    The scale and strength of Ukrainian resistance continues to surprise Russia. It has responded by targeting populated areas in multiple locations, including Kharkiv, Chernihiv and Mariupol. This is likely to represent an effort to break Ukrainian morale. Russia has previously used similar tactics in Chechnya in 1999 and Syria in 2016, employing both air and ground-based munitions.

    Russian supply lines reportedly continue to be targeted, slowing the rate of advance of their ground forces. There is a realistic possibility that Russia is now attempting to conceal fuel trucks as regular support trucks to minimise losses.


    https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1500357239428763649

    How does one make a fuel truck look like a support truck? Seems like they are pretty distinctive, hence the problem.
    Either fuel tanks in regular trucks, or regular truck canopies on top of the fuel tanker.
    https://twitter.com/vcdgf555/status/1497669969139539968
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682
    edited March 2022
    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors. "Do you think any of the following tosspots are a fit and proper person to hold illegal parties in their tenanted home?"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    JACK_W said:

    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors. "Do you think any of the following tosspots are a fit and proper person to hold illegal parties in their tenanted home?

    No.

    Next question.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that Scots agree with the other islanders:

    Net favourability

    Sturgeon 13%
    Scottish Government 7%
    Anas Sarwar 1%
    Keir Starmer -10
    Patrick Harvie -15
    Alex Cole-Hamilton -15
    Lorna Slater -15
    Rishi Sunak -19
    Douglas Ross -21
    UK Government -50
    Alex Salmond -62
    Boris Johnson -62

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; 14-18 January; 1,004)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    Although TBF with the exception of @Leon and @TheScreamingEagles that doesn't appear to help Mark Drakeford.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    - “… and Opinium. The latter with the “if any” reference at least gives the option of not having a view.“

    Indeed. Scots want neither. The last Opinium finding for Jockland:

    The Oaf 10%
    Starmer 26%
    None of the above 51%
    DK 13%
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    3,000 Americans have apparently volunteered to fight in Ukraine according to the BBC.

    I wonder how many foreign volunteers you'd need to make a significant difference on the ground. 10,000 maybe?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    - “… and Opinium. The latter with the “if any” reference at least gives the option of not having a view.“

    Indeed. Scots want neither. The last Opinium finding for Jockland:

    The Oaf 10%
    Starmer 26%
    None of the above 51%
    DK 13%

    Could be worse. The choices could include Susan Acland-Hood and Amanda Spielman.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    DavidL said:

    You can make an argument for most of these questions but ultimately does it really matter? Whatever bias they create in the result should be consistent provided that the question is consistent. Best PM is, in my view, a relative measurement and what we should be looking at is the trend so messing about with the question would defeat the purpose.

    Boris's best PM ranking collapsed with Partygate (or, as I prefer, bare faced lying) and it has not yet shown much sign of recovery despite a reasonable effort on Ukraine to date. SKS is being more successful at sounding like at least a potential PM in waiting. This is useful information but I don't think trying to find the absolute "truth" of their respective standings tells us very much.

    - “… so messing about with the question would defeat the purpose.“

    Welcome to the bizarre world of social research:

    99% guff
    1% Palladium
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    On-topic for last thread, Melenchon to make the second round is 10/1 Betfair & Hills; 12/1 Ladbrokes and Corals. The fact he is shorter on the Betfair Exchange suggests no-one can get on with Ladbrokes but it is a thin market in any case. Fwiw my take is that it is not worth worrying about.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Andy_JS said:

    3,000 Americans have apparently volunteered to fight in Ukraine according to the BBC.

    I wonder how many foreign volunteers you'd need to make a significant difference on the ground. 10,000 maybe?

    Depends how useful they are I imagine - are they trained to fight, can they operate in a unit, any chance they speak ukrainian or russian?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Andy_JS said:

    3,000 Americans have apparently volunteered to fight in Ukraine according to the BBC.

    I wonder how many foreign volunteers you'd need to make a significant difference on the ground. 10,000 maybe?

    Depends who they are. If special forces "on holiday", or coming out of retirement due to Covid-induced boredom, then not many.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited March 2022

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    If the last figure (which is one the Ukrainians have been putting out, and as Dura Ace has pointed out, their figures are not particularly reliable) is true, that's getting on for 8% of all their forces in the field killed in ten days.

    If they're suffering that level of attrition, we're talking about a mortality rate not ridiculously far off that of the British Army in the First World War (which was around 10-12% over four years).

    While having numerical and technical superiority, which the BEF didn't have.

    Something doesn't make sense about that to me. Either the figures are wrong or the Russian military has buggered things up on a scale that would have caused the Light Brigade to blink.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited March 2022
    ydoethur said:

    - “… and Opinium. The latter with the “if any” reference at least gives the option of not having a view.“

    Indeed. Scots want neither. The last Opinium finding for Jockland:

    The Oaf 10%
    Starmer 26%
    None of the above 51%
    DK 13%

    Could be worse. The choices could include Susan Acland-Hood and Amanda Spielman.
    Popular culture is not my forte.

    Are they like that Jade lassie off of Big Brother?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that Scots agree with the other islanders:

    Net favourability

    Sturgeon 13%
    Scottish Government 7%
    Anas Sarwar 1%
    Keir Starmer -10
    Patrick Harvie -15
    Alex Cole-Hamilton -15
    Lorna Slater -15
    Rishi Sunak -19
    Douglas Ross -21
    UK Government -50
    Alex Salmond -62
    Boris Johnson -62

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; 14-18 January; 1,004)
    You have to take into account Scottish voters being brainwashed by virulently pro SNP broadcasters and press though.
  • Good stuff from Cohen:

    …As I said, the Labour mainstream used the invasion to move against the tyrannophile left. We have seen nothing comparable on the supposedly mainstream right.

    No pieces in the Mail or Telegraph agonising over how they ever came to be fooled by Farage and Arron Banks. No speeches from Boris Johnson warning against the seductions of tyrannical thinking and power worship. The silence shows that the border between the centre right and the far right has fallen into disrepair.

    For Johnson also likes to pose as a strongman, who can get Brexit done. He too wallows in nostalgia for the past rather than hope for the future and defines himself against a large portion of his fellow countrymen: the remoaners, the naysayers, the libtards and the woke.

    In the most desperate of circumstances, Ukraine cries to be allowed into the European Union, that same European Union a generation of unforgivably trivial Tories have dedicated their lives to destroying. Putin shows his fear of Russians learning the truth about his war by blocking their access to the BBC, the same BBC that Johnson underfunds and promises to ruin whenever he needs to toss red meat to the Tory right.


    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/05/far-right-far-left-admired-putin-weve-all-turned-against-strongmen
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    3,000 Americans have apparently volunteered to fight in Ukraine according to the BBC.

    I wonder how many foreign volunteers you'd need to make a significant difference on the ground. 10,000 maybe?

    Depends who they are. If special forces "on holiday", or coming out of retirement due to Covid-induced boredom, then not many.
    It would have a certain logic to use the Putin approach of claiming armed units taking long term unannounced holidays to war zones.

    In other news The Batman is ok, very definitely wants to be the Dark Knight, though is too long.
  • другий

    Второй, surely?
    Wouldn't have a clue! Totally at the mercy of Google Translate
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    - “… and Opinium. The latter with the “if any” reference at least gives the option of not having a view.“

    Indeed. Scots want neither. The last Opinium finding for Jockland:

    The Oaf 10%
    Starmer 26%
    None of the above 51%
    DK 13%

    Could be worse. The choices could include Susan Acland-Hood and Amanda Spielman.
    Popular culture is not my forte.

    Are they like that Jade lassie off of Big Brother?
    They're the idiots who ruin, oops, run the DfE. Acland-Hood was one of the party people, Amanda Spielman thinks girls being bullied into sending nude images of themselves isn't a safeguarding issue.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    3,000 Americans have apparently volunteered to fight in Ukraine according to the BBC.

    I wonder how many foreign volunteers you'd need to make a significant difference on the ground. 10,000 maybe?

    It depends. Those with recent military experience possibly. Cosplay walts perhaps less so.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that Scots agree with the other islanders:

    Net favourability

    Sturgeon 13%
    Scottish Government 7%
    Anas Sarwar 1%
    Keir Starmer -10
    Patrick Harvie -15
    Alex Cole-Hamilton -15
    Lorna Slater -15
    Rishi Sunak -19
    Douglas Ross -21
    UK Government -50
    Alex Salmond -62
    Boris Johnson -62

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; 14-18 January; 1,004)
    You have to take into account Scottish voters being brainwashed by virulently pro SNP broadcasters and press though.
    I thought it was those devils in the schools programming the youth?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that Scots agree with the other islanders:

    Net favourability

    Sturgeon 13%
    Scottish Government 7%
    Anas Sarwar 1%
    Keir Starmer -10
    Patrick Harvie -15
    Alex Cole-Hamilton -15
    Lorna Slater -15
    Rishi Sunak -19
    Douglas Ross -21
    UK Government -50
    Alex Salmond -62
    Boris Johnson -62

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; 14-18 January; 1,004)
    You have to take into account Scottish voters being brainwashed by virulently pro SNP broadcasters and press though.
    If the BritNats didn’t have the media in their pocket, they’d be down to the level the Norwegian Unionists managed in the 1905 referendum.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that Scots agree with the other islanders:

    Net favourability

    Sturgeon 13%
    Scottish Government 7%
    Anas Sarwar 1%
    Keir Starmer -10
    Patrick Harvie -15
    Alex Cole-Hamilton -15
    Lorna Slater -15
    Rishi Sunak -19
    Douglas Ross -21
    UK Government -50
    Alex Salmond -62
    Boris Johnson -62

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; 14-18 January; 1,004)
    You have to take into account Scottish voters being brainwashed by virulently pro SNP broadcasters and press though.
    I thought it was those devils in the schools programming the youth?
    All organs of the state and society are of course in the service of the SNP, as they should be in any well run totalitarian nation.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    ydoethur said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    If the last figure (which is one the Ukrainians have been putting out, and as Dura Ace has pointed out, their figures are not particularly reliable) is true, that's getting on for 8% of all their forces in the field killed in ten days.

    If they're suffering that level of attrition, we're talking about a mortality rate not ridiculously far off that of the British Army in the First World War (which was around 10-12% over four years).

    While having numerical and technical superiority, which the BEF didn't have.

    Something doesn't make sense about that to me. Either the figures are wrong or the Russian military has buggered things up on a scale that would have caused the Light Brigade to blink.
    "We have lost contact with major divisions" is a weird one. Have they just agreed local ceasefires? "Don't kill us, we don't kill you, everybody gets to go home...."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    As 57% of Scots approve of Sturgeon, and 43% nationally, it would suggest support of around +40% in rUK for her.

    Obviously the rest of us cannot vote SNP, but such popularity does rather prevent a reprise of the Miliband in Salmonds pocket adverts of 2015. Indeed with Sturgeon being more popular in rUK than Starmer, it might have the reverse effect to intended.
  • Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    ydoethur said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    If the last figure (which is one the Ukrainians have been putting out, and as Dura Ace has pointed out, their figures are not particularly reliable) is true, that's getting on for 8% of all their forces in the field killed in ten days.

    If they're suffering that level of attrition, we're talking about a mortality rate not ridiculously far off that of the British Army in the First World War (which was around 10-12% over four years).

    While having numerical and technical superiority, which the BEF didn't have.

    Something doesn't make sense about that to me. Either the figures are wrong or the Russian military has buggered things up on a scale that would have caused the Light Brigade to blink.
    I tend to agree with that but in fairness the lethality of the weaponary on the battlefield is far, far greater that it was in WW1. When you see what has happened to those columns which have been subject to drone strikes etc it is hard to see many humans surviving that. We also know that street battles tend to produce high casualties for both sides.

    My reservations about the FSB letter is that it is supposedly by an analyst and there is damn little analysis in it. In fact there is not even 1 hard figure. That makes me a bit suspicious that this is more Ukranian propoganda. Good effort though.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    Wreaks of disinfo to me. Could be wrong, though.

    And even if it is real: it is one person's view, and may not reflect reality.

    I'm still convinced that Russia's attack has gone disastrously wrong. They could still win, though, but at a dramatic price to both the Ukrainians and themselves.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    As 57% of Scots approve of Sturgeon, and 43% nationally, it would suggest support of around +40% in rUK for her.

    Obviously the rest of us cannot vote SNP, but such popularity does rather prevent a reprise of the Miliband in Salmonds pocket adverts of 2015. Indeed with Sturgeon being more popular in rUK than Starmer, it might have the reverse effect to intended.
    That's presumably the sort of crude 'fact' that one of us thinks history is all about. And will now promptly deny.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Lord Clark of Windermere, a member of the House of Lords Appointments Commission, issues a rare comment to me and @HarryYorke1 today

    He says Holac investigates cases as much as possible, but ultimately relies on info from elsewhere

    In the end, he adds, it's a matter for the PM


    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1500232483324968970 https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1500390446291378176/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    This earlier story by @openDemocracy is worth re-reading in light of @thesundaytimes revelations on the Lebedev/Johnson link... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-russian-oligarch-and-page-3-model/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    Where's Spycatcher when you need them?

    I wonder who is the highest placed Russian agent in British political life. Parliament or much higher still?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    IanB2 said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
    Suggests that having a modern, efficient road system may not be a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited March 2022
    Foxy said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    Where's Spycatcher when you need them?

    I wonder who is the highest placed Russian agent in British political life. Parliament or much higher still?
    To be higher than Pmt it'd have to be HMtQ, Duke of Ro'say or Archbish Cantuar!

    Edit: or God. But, pace R.F. Delderfield, He's not a UK subject.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Andy_JS said:

    3,000 Americans have apparently volunteered to fight in Ukraine according to the BBC.

    I wonder how many foreign volunteers you'd need to make a significant difference on the ground. 10,000 maybe?

    It depends of course on exactly who they are, but there’s an awful lot of Americans who have had military training.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Divvie, I'm reminded of reading about differing rail gauges slowing logistical progress from that direction in WWII.

    Of course, Stalin's drive for Berlin was greatly aided by American credulity for his claims the city didn't really matter.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    Thanks, I found this translation much clearer. Startling if real.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    IanB2 said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
    Suggests that having a modern, efficient road system may not be a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe.
    The issue with the roads is that one very burnt out tank takes a lot of road out - and it’s one of many things Russia isn’t in a position to fix as the supplies aren’t there
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    In search of diverse information streams, I'm keeping an eye on Interfax, which is quite obviously pro-Russian with a business slant - e.g. news of a new China-backed credit card to replace Mastercard. And, just to confirm the impression that Putin is deeply dependent on oligarchs, is an announcement that economic crime will no longer be a criminal offence:

    https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/75694/

    Also interesting: a Russian poll suggesting that support for the war is growing (deep scepticism is appropriate for all the obvious reasons), but the only reason for it that has significant support is "stopping NATO deploying bases in Ukraine" - even if the poll is entirely rigged, it's significant that that's the key issue in their eyes, rather than support for the mini-republics or denazification (both score under 20%). That suggests that a deal where Ukraine commits not to join NATO may be something Putin could sell back home.

    https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/75711/

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Scott_xP said:

    This earlier story by @openDemocracy is worth re-reading in light of @thesundaytimes revelations on the Lebedev/Johnson link... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-russian-oligarch-and-page-3-model/

    It would be deserved karma that having escaped his just punishment for his lockdown excesses, his earlier excesses with the Russians should bring his downfall.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    Wreaks of disinfo to me. Could be wrong, though.

    And even if it is real: it is one person's view, and may not reflect reality.

    I'm still convinced that Russia's attack has gone disastrously wrong. They could still win, though, but at a dramatic price to both the Ukrainians and themselves.
    There real story is that Russia could win the battle but they don’t have the capacity to win the war as they don’t have the numbers nor the logistics to hold on to the territory they capture.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.

    The PM overruled the security services to give a peerage to someone who has shown him any number of personal financial favours. That does not mean that he was bought by the Russians, just by Lebedev.

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Foxy said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    Where's Spycatcher when you need them?

    I wonder who is the highest placed Russian agent in British political life. Parliament or much higher still?
    100% there are MPs on the FSB or GRU payroll. Probably at least one in the cabinet. They all like money far too much. The obverse applies as well, obviously. Probably to a much greater degree with Russian politicians taking $$$ from the CIA.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Surely the only real question is who the FIA have scripted should win this year?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,900
    edited March 2022
    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    Laughable. MI6 did not consider it to be "nonsense". They were overruled. By the Big Dog. For his friend the KGB man and his son who controls chunks of our media.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,821

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Divvie, I'm reminded of reading about differing rail gauges slowing logistical progress from that direction in WWII.

    Of course, Stalin's drive for Berlin was greatly aided by American credulity for his claims the city didn't really matter.

    .
    Mr Dancer, when he captured Berlin, Stalin reportedly commented "But Tsar Alexander made it all the way to Paris!"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    DavidL said:

    Surely the only real question is who the FIA have scripted should win this year?
    Please let it be Ocon. He's about the only driver at the moment who doesn't seem a complete numpty.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    DavidL said:

    Surely the only real question is who the FIA have scripted should win this year?
    Sacking Masi was required but not sufficient, to sort out the mess.

    Right now, it’s only the new cars keeping me interested, any more official shenanigans and they’ll quickly add many more to those who have already given up on the sport.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    Where's Spycatcher when you need them?

    I wonder who is the highest placed Russian agent in British political life. Parliament or much higher still?
    100% there are MPs on the FSB or GRU payroll. Probably at least one in the cabinet. They all like money far too much. The obverse applies as well, obviously. Probably to a much greater degree with Russian politicians taking $$$ from the CIA.
    I doubt that the CIA were ever as efficient as the Russians claimed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
    Suggests that having a modern, efficient road system may not be a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe.
    The issue with the roads is that one very burnt out tank takes a lot of road out - and it’s one of many things Russia isn’t in a position to fix as the supplies aren’t there
    Sure, but having several well paved dual carriageways with hard shoulders leading to your largest city would make a difference. Not that it’s relevant except in HYUFD’s fever dreams but Glasgow has around five (though some may argue with well paved).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This earlier story by @openDemocracy is worth re-reading in light of @thesundaytimes revelations on the Lebedev/Johnson link... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-russian-oligarch-and-page-3-model/

    It would be deserved karma that having escaped his just punishment for his lockdown excesses, his earlier excesses with the Russians should bring his downfall.

    Boris Johnson is lucky. He's having a good war.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Surely the only real question is who the FIA have scripted should win this year?
    Grown men still crying about the broom brooms months later. Risible.
    Not crying, just deeply unenthused. Really doubt that I will bother watching this year.
  • Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    The Ukranians rate British assistance highly, and their opinion is the one that matters.
    It isn't either / or. We are both assisting the Ukranians AND dragging our heels sanctioning the Russians. Mogg claiming values of sanction. But we had vastly more than anyone else, so our percentage is so much lower.

    It is odd though. When Aldi are removing Russian vodka from the shelves as part of our crackdown on Russia and Russian interests. That it is "nonsense" to have concerns about our PM who skipped security briefings about bioweapon attacks on our soil to party with his KGB friend.

    Absolutely nothing to see here, and the security service were clearly Wrong to have any concerns at all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited March 2022

    IanB2 said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
    Suggests that having a modern, efficient road system may not be a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe.
    From now on, all of Eastern Estonia to just be a continually ploughed field or artificial wetland.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    So Big Dog took the Russians for fools too. Took their support and let them down. Its almost as if that is the way Big Dog works.

    At least Farage and Banks are showing some integrity by sticking to their support of Putin.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    The Ukranians rate British assistance highly, and their opinion is the one that matters.

    It's OK for Boris Johnson to be corrupt because the UK is supplying Ukraine with valuable military support is quite a take!

  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This earlier story by @openDemocracy is worth re-reading in light of @thesundaytimes revelations on the Lebedev/Johnson link... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-russian-oligarch-and-page-3-model/

    It would be deserved karma that having escaped his just punishment for his lockdown excesses, his earlier excesses with the Russians should bring his downfall.

    Boris Johnson is lucky. He's having a good war.
    BJ is lucky in general, Red Ken while Mayor, JC in a general election. for him it's better to be lucky than to be good. Luck does run out though.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    DavidL said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Surely the only real question is who the FIA have scripted should win this year?
    Grown men still crying about the broom brooms months later. Risible.
    Not crying, just deeply unenthused. Really doubt that I will bother watching this year.
    Me neither.
    So situation normal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Surely the only real question is who the FIA have scripted should win this year?
    Grown men still crying about the broom brooms months later. Risible.
    Grown men still acting as though emotional investment in sporting and athletic events has not occurred throughout human history?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    In search of diverse information streams, I'm keeping an eye on Interfax, which is quite obviously pro-Russian with a business slant - e.g. news of a new China-backed credit card to replace Mastercard. And, just to confirm the impression that Putin is deeply dependent on oligarchs, is an announcement that economic crime will no longer be a criminal offence:

    https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/75694/

    Also interesting: a Russian poll suggesting that support for the war is growing (deep scepticism is appropriate for all the obvious reasons), but the only reason for it that has significant support is "stopping NATO deploying bases in Ukraine" - even if the poll is entirely rigged, it's significant that that's the key issue in their eyes, rather than support for the mini-republics or denazification (both score under 20%). That suggests that a deal where Ukraine commits not to join NATO may be something Putin could sell back home.

    https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/75711/

    I've been keeping an eye on Chinese and Indian news services (in English) too. The Chinese seem to have lessened their covarage, and are upset at allegations that they connived in the launch date of Putin's war. Whether true or not that seems to have been a mis-step from the US. The Indians seem to be presenting much of the destruction, but also presenting Russia's claims of precision strikes.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    Wreaks of disinfo to me. Could be wrong, though.

    And even if it is real: it is one person's view, and may not reflect reality.

    I'm still convinced that Russia's attack has gone disastrously wrong. They could still win, though, but at a dramatic price to both the Ukrainians and themselves.
    Wreaks havoc; reeks of disinfo.

    P. B. Pedant

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
    Suggests that having a modern, efficient road system may not be a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe.
    The issue with the roads is that one very burnt out tank takes a lot of road out - and it’s one of many things Russia isn’t in a position to fix as the supplies aren’t there
    Sure, but having several well paved dual carriageways with hard shoulders leading to your largest city would make a difference. Not that it’s relevant except in HYUFD’s fever dreams but Glasgow has around five (though some may argue with well paved).
    You'd only have to knock out the M74 though. The Army wouldn't go up the east coast because they'd be worried about the Tyne tunnel penalty charge
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Dr. Prasannan, don't give Mad Vlad ideas.

    Mr. L, if it's very close, the stewards will have their hands full this season.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Mr. kle4, the Nika Rebellion does spring to mind.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This earlier story by @openDemocracy is worth re-reading in light of @thesundaytimes revelations on the Lebedev/Johnson link... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-russian-oligarch-and-page-3-model/

    It would be deserved karma that having escaped his just punishment for his lockdown excesses, his earlier excesses with the Russians should bring his downfall.

    Boris Johnson is lucky. He's having a good war.
    Don't confuse the photo opportunities and spin with the reality. It's too early to draw such a conclusion.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    Wreaks of disinfo to me. Could be wrong, though.

    And even if it is real: it is one person's view, and may not reflect reality.

    I'm still convinced that Russia's attack has gone disastrously wrong. They could still win, though, but at a dramatic price to both the Ukrainians and themselves.
    Wreaks havoc; reeks of disinfo.

    P. B. Pedant

    Nevertheless it also reeks of havoc.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited March 2022
    Here is an example of what the Russian propoganda machine is up to at home.

    Russian news site Avia.pro reports that:
    “Ukranian “Azov” terrorists blasted residential building in Mariopol, 200 people under the ruins.”

    There was no Azov terrorist attack in Mariopol yesterday. The picture is actually of School No.25 in Zhytomyr, several hundred kilometers away, hit by a Russian rocket 48 hours ago. The same rocket that means I need to buy new windows for my house!

    (Azov are a “Ukranian Nationalist terrrorist group”, which does exist, mostly attacking Russian soldiers that have been in Ukraine since 2014, but exists a lot in Russian reporting of what’s going on at the moment).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    Where's Spycatcher when you need them?

    I wonder who is the highest placed Russian agent in British political life. Parliament or much higher still?
    100% there are MPs on the FSB or GRU payroll. Probably at least one in the cabinet. They all like money far too much. The obverse applies as well, obviously. Probably to a much greater degree with Russian politicians taking $$$ from the CIA.
    Turns out every member of the Duma is actually a foreign agent, some for more than one, and if we coordinated we'd have control. Awkward.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904

    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    The PM overruled the security services to give a peerage to someone who has shown him any number of personal financial favours. That does not mean that he was bought by the Russians, just by Lebedev.
    I would much prefer it if we had a prime minister who had not been bought by anybody. You know, one whose first loyalty was to the British people.....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    IanB2 said:

    Sean_F said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    This earlier story by @openDemocracy is worth re-reading in light of @thesundaytimes revelations on the Lebedev/Johnson link... https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/revealed-boris-russian-oligarch-and-page-3-model/

    It would be deserved karma that having escaped his just punishment for his lockdown excesses, his earlier excesses with the Russians should bring his downfall.

    Boris Johnson is lucky. He's having a good war.
    Don't confuse the photo opportunities and spin with the reality. It's too early to draw such a conclusion.

    Johnson has won back a lot of support on the right that he had lost. From his perspective, nothing else matters.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    If that really is an FSB insider, there are many fascinating snippets:

    - Our Blitzkrieg has totally collapsed. It is impossible to complete the task

    - With regards to Russian military losses: I don’t know the reality – no one does. There was some information the first 2 days, but now no one knows what is happening in Ukraine. We’ve lost contact with major divisions.

    - Our conditional deadline is June. Conditional because in June there will be no economy left in Russia – there will be nothing left.

    - Total dead is definitely in the thousands, maybe 10,000, maybe 5,000, or maybe just 2,000. Probably closer to 10,000 Russian dead.
    Wreaks of disinfo to me. Could be wrong, though.

    And even if it is real: it is one person's view, and may not reflect reality.

    I'm still convinced that Russia's attack has gone disastrously wrong. They could still win, though, but at a dramatic price to both the Ukrainians and themselves.
    Christo Grozev claims to have sounded out FSB contacts on whether it is authentic or not, and they say it is. Which would be a REAL coup for Ukrainian psy-ops if they are that good.

    If it were on track, they would be talking of taking cities, not talking of taking villages in Donbas.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "Obsessed? Frightened? Wakeful? War in Ukraine sparks return of doomscrolling
    As happened with Covid, the compulsive need to keep up with the Russian invasion is taking a toll on our mental health"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/06/obsessed-frightened-wakeful-war-in-ukraine-sparks-return-of-doomscrolling
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Christo Grozev linked to an alleged letter from an FSB insider on the Ukraine war, and without commenting on authenticity, it's a very interesting read. I translated and lightly edited it. Starts with a bit of whimper on agri policy, but it sure picks up.

    https://twitter.com/mwr_dbm/status/1500317789390876672

    In another thread the conclusion is “quite probably real, or if not a better fake than we’ve seen before” (the longer the fake, the greater the chance for mistakes - this one is long)

    Literally just came here to post the same letter, though in an alternate translation:

    https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1500301348780199937
    A pertinent point is that the logistics - and specifically the roads - cannot cope with the size of convoys that would be needed to supply the size of force that Russia would need to deploy inside Ukraine to achieve its objectives.
    Suggests that having a modern, efficient road system may not be a strategic advantage in Eastern Europe.
    The issue with the roads is that one very burnt out tank takes a lot of road out - and it’s one of many things Russia isn’t in a position to fix as the supplies aren’t there
    Sure, but having several well paved dual carriageways with hard shoulders leading to your largest city would make a difference. Not that it’s relevant except in HYUFD’s fever dreams but Glasgow has around five (though some may argue with well paved).
    You'd only have to knock out the M74 though. The Army wouldn't go up the east coast because they'd be worried about the Tyne tunnel penalty charge
    I fear that you’re dismissing the Faslane beachhead and the loyalist Edinburgh enclave far too easily.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,652
    ClippP said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    The PM overruled the security services to give a peerage to someone who has shown him any number of personal financial favours. That does not mean that he was bought by the Russians, just by Lebedev.
    I would much prefer it if we had a prime minister who had not been bought by anybody. You know, one whose first loyalty was to the British people.....

    As if!

    At least other PMs have waited until after they left office to line their pockets. He doesn't even have the decency to do that.

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    The Ukranians rate British assistance highly, and their opinion is the one that matters.

    It's OK for Boris Johnson to be corrupt because the UK is supplying Ukraine with valuable military support is quite a take!

    We all know that he's corrupt and a charlatan. But, when it comes to the Ukraine, the government has done a good job.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    DavidL said:

    Morning all! I posted the Times splash on Boris being a security risk when they tweeted it - massive. Having scanned the overnight thread it seems to be desperately ignored by some of you

    Remember that after Russia poisoned the Skripals with a WMD on British soil, Big Dog skipped security briefings to meet Lebedev senior the KGB man. And then ignores security concerns about ennobling Lebedev junior who gets all his money from his dad the KGB man. Who gets the security services *to withdraw* their problematic concerns about Lebedev junior.

    This is the problem. The Tories can't act properly against Russia because they shill for Russia. The press reposts how the Tories are "delighted" with the Ukraine was as being a great opportunity to move on from problems and portray the PM as Thatcher. "Delighted"?

    How many anti tank weapons do we actually have to supply before you give up on this nonsense? Our government has been vigorous in supporting Ukraine and done as much as most to cause them problems. Such polling as is available from Ukraine itself supports this. The pressure put on BP is another good example. If our government was bought by the Russians they are getting less for their money than they are in Ukraine. Its just nonsense.
    Boris seems to have met with or spoken with Zelensky around a half dozen times since mid February. Whether enough is being done on the homefront there's definitely been close coordination diplomatically.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    That’s because 90% of the country doesn’t have to live under her regime.
    That would be more persuasive if it were not for the fact that Scots agree with the other islanders:

    Net favourability

    Sturgeon 13%
    Scottish Government 7%
    Anas Sarwar 1%
    Keir Starmer -10
    Patrick Harvie -15
    Alex Cole-Hamilton -15
    Lorna Slater -15
    Rishi Sunak -19
    Douglas Ross -21
    UK Government -50
    Alex Salmond -62
    Boris Johnson -62

    (Savanta ComRes/The Scotsman; 14-18 January; 1,004)
    You have to take into account Scottish voters being brainwashed by virulently pro SNP broadcasters and press though.
    I thought it was those devils in the schools programming the youth?
    All organs of the state and society are of course in the service of the SNP, as they should be in any well run totalitarian nation.
    Indeed. The only thing that can save us is their utter and complete incompetence.

    So I remain quite sanguine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited March 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    "Obsessed? Frightened? Wakeful? War in Ukraine sparks return of doomscrolling
    As happened with Covid, the compulsive need to keep up with the Russian invasion is taking a toll on our mental health"

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/06/obsessed-frightened-wakeful-war-in-ukraine-sparks-return-of-doomscrolling

    It's a fair point. In the first months of Covid obsessing over comparitive stats was draining. Here's hoping for some truly stupid news to give us an opportunity to laugh.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    Sandpit said:

    Here is an example of what the Russian propoganda machine is up to at home.

    Russian news site Avia.pro reports that:
    “Ukranian “Azov” terrorists blasted residential building in Mariopol, 200 people under the ruins.”

    There was no Azov terrorist attack in Mariopol yesterday. The picture is actually of School No.25 in Zhytomyr, several hundred kilometers away, hit by a Russian rocket 48 hours ago. The same rocket that means I need to buy new windows for my house!

    (Azov are a “Ukranian Nationalist terrrorist group”, which does exist, mostly attacking Russian soldiers that have been in Ukraine since 2014, but exists a lot in Russian reporting of what’s going on at the moment).

    Sorry to be a ppita, and you’re not the only one who does it, but it’s propaganda.
This discussion has been closed.