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So is Johnson going to survive as PM or not? – politicalbetting.com

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  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296
    Jonathan said:

    Personally, couldn’t be more depressed about politics than I am now. Boris is safe. Tory MPs not only bottled it, they’ve doubled down backing the lying shit. A man who will say and do anything to save his skin, The country is not in safe hands. Validated and encouraged by this episode he will increasingly adopt Trumpian tactics. The ultras in the county love it. Honest traditional conservatism is dead, Wrenching him from number 10 is going to be seriously hard.

    I think he survives too. But this crisis has shown he is vulnerable and there is a limit to what the public will tolerate. I felt really depressed when he was cocking everything up and still popular. Labour are polling over 40% fairly consistently. There is hope.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Sandpit said:

    Have we covered the Neil Young versus Joe Rogan spat yet?

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/spotify-to-remove-neil-youngs-music-after-rockers-ultimatum-over-joe-rogan/

    I'm firmly on the Neil Young side of the argument, although he might have been naive to believe Spotify would drop an 'artist' they paid $100 million to get. Although I am surprised that they haven't told Rogan to calm it down a little.

    I’m not sure Rogan quite understands the extent of his influence, but he can be a bit of an idiot with some of the Covid stuff, which verges on conspiracy theory and cherry-picking of statistics and ‘experts’.

    In his defence, he does say that he’s a moron and a clown, and that people should speak to a real doctor for medical advise. His interview with epidemiologist Michael Osterholm, right back at the start of the pandemic, was the point where many of us realised what was about to happen.

    Young is also an idiot though, he said he wants his music off Spotify, and they are obliging him. Not that he owns most of the rights to his own music any more anyway, having taking a big cheque not so long ago.
    I don't think Young's being an idiot: he's taking a stand that many agree with (even if it is an ineffectual stand), and he's got some great PR. I bet he'll get a fair few more listens on Spotify and other services this week.

    I've only ever listened to a couple of Joe Rogan shows, but I didn't like them enough to listen to more.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
    The Americans are investing massively in chip manufacture in the US, onshoring production that has belonged to the far East. We really need to be doing the same if we can find a major player who can be incentivised to make the investment.

    Things are really bad right now but more than 50% of chips currently come from Taiwan. If things really kick off with China we will be looking back to now as the good old days.
    Intel have recently announced they are putting lots of money into Ireland to build a new plant. Much as I'd like to have production in Britain I think this might end up being something a bit like agriculture, where a British deficit in supply is balanced by an Irish surplus, and so what looks like a strategic weakness is not as big a deal as it appears at first sight.

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
    The Americans are investing massively in chip manufacture in the US, onshoring production that has belonged to the far East. We really need to be doing the same if we can find a major player who can be incentivised to make the investment.

    Things are really bad right now but more than 50% of chips currently come from Taiwan. If things really kick off with China we will be looking back to now as the good old days.
    Intel have recently announced they are putting lots of money into Ireland to build a new plant. Much as I'd like to have production in Britain I think this might end up being something a bit like agriculture, where a British deficit in supply is balanced by an Irish surplus, and so what looks like a strategic weakness is not as big a deal as it appears at first sight.
    I will be a lot more comfortable getting chips from Ireland than I am from a potential war zone. But, like you, I would still like some UK production.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited January 2022
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Car production just fine in Germany. In 2019 the market reached 3.6 million car passenger sales, the new all-time record. Despite Covid, 2021 was only 10% down on that record year.

    England has knocked herself back to the 1950s. An unforced error of ginormous proportions.

    Talking of “trolls”: epic effort last night highlighting Gordon Brown’s 10,484th announcement of imminent federalism in the Yookay.
    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-opel-plant-to-shut-over-global-chip-shortage/a-59362189
    Well quite. His poor efforts to troll the group blaming Brexit for the car industrys woes are most amusing

    https://en.vda.de/en/services/facts-and-figures.html

    Sept 2021 down 44% on the prior year in Germany
    Aug 2021 down 37% on the prior yer in Germany.

    A good start to 2021 is masking a steep decline. The use of inventory and the inability to replenish it is hampering everywhere.
    Cars are big in Sweden as well.

    What are the figures for there? I can't seem to find them.
    Well Koenigsegg made a handful. Literally a handful. Nice cars though.

    Volvo spinoff Polestar made a few dozen £150k EVs, but has now started production on a more mainstream model.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    On levelling up - another area where things are going badly for the Government is former European Aid money that the Treasury isn't replacing in full

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1486460654609440776/photo/1

    That is going to impact a number of projects that have already started and result in councils having to find a fair whack of money that they don't have because they are the ones responsible for the project.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.

    image

    Formerly Norman of the Sanity Into Number Ten Alliance, most likely now Titiana of the SHERSH Spy Ring, undermining UKs War Leader.
    Titiana puts me in mind of Titian hair, and therefore of the flame-haired temptress herself.

    *Retires to bed to dream*
    Wait. I havn’t finished with you yet 🙂

    the chair you liked. Last time it changed hands, £26M

    image
    You cannot be Sirius.
    Why is this chair notable?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
    I think most of us could do that translation :smile: .

    Yesterday on R5 PMQ coverage none of the commentators had ever used, and for 2 out of 3, never heard of, "pettifogging".

    My best example of pettifogging is when a dustman refuses to empty your bin because the lid is 1cm up from being closed, and it is required to be closed.

    Drapes not drapery for me. A chaise longue is a very specific thing.

    Have a read of an interior design blog, which tend to be popular with slightly too up-themselves types. Try https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/
    Can’t help wondering if a self avowed former communist is really the best person to do this. Sorry @NickPalmer ! No offence intended.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Off topic, the Lady Pidcock flounced from Labour's PLP yesterday after it refused to her demands to do something it had no power to do. The Jeremy will not return as a Labour MP and will have to defeat a Labour candidate if he wants to continue his life's struggle for irrelevance socialism.

    Will we now finally see the breakaway Trot Left Party founded? I note that Momentum have changed their rules, now openly calling for non-Labour members to get involved in their struggle, so there is another opportunity for Starmer to have them proscribed.

    There are a plethora of left unity parties under the umbrella of that same name. Indeed the more splinter parties there are the more we get left unity apparently. So what next for Jezza and the People's Pidcock and the mentalists still left in Labour. The party doesn't want you or your tool leader and there's no reversing that. Stay? Hope for the rise of Sultana in 2025? Or leave, with the Jeremy as the unifying Bernie figure we all love, leading the way to true socialism by working for a Conservative government.

    Pass the popcorn someone. That #StarmerOut was trending last night in the middle of all this was truly epic.

    Yet another reason that Boris is safe. The opposition has an Achilles heal.
    Not for the moment, I don't think. Starmer just needs to maintain his current reasonably moderate factional course.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    According to Nick Watt the report savages the civil service in Downing Street and Whitehall and the civil service unions are fighting to protect the identity of junior civil servants and also many who are going to find it very uncomfortable

    Boris is hanging by a thread and I do not know how this pans out but let's see just what Sue Gray does say as it is going to be very dramatic

    The behaviour of No 10 reflects the behaviour of the person at the top of No 10.

    I simply can't imagine this sort of thing would have occurred in May or Brown's time. In Cameron's time I can see people having a drink but it wouldn't be going on all night.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
    He would have been a great Tory leader, possibly even something like the new Macmillan.

    If Johnsonism is completely discredited in the future, ofcourse..
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    eek said:

    According to Nick Watt the report savages the civil service in Downing Street and Whitehall and the civil service unions are fighting to protect the identity of junior civil servants and also many who are going to find it very uncomfortable

    Boris is hanging by a thread and I do not know how this pans out but let's see just what Sue Gray does say as it is going to be very dramatic

    The behaviour of No 10 reflects the behaviour of the person at the top of No 10.

    I simply can't imagine this sort of thing would have occurred in May or Brown's time. In Cameron's time I can see people having a drink but it wouldn't be going on all night.
    Another example of 'a fish rots from its head'.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
    It’s hard to see how he can come back. The Tory party would need to change out of all recognition. FPTP makes it difficult for him to pull a Macron. Can’t see him crossing the floor, despite him being a more natural LD or Labour MP today.

    In a parallel universe… Alas.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    DavidL said:


    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
    The Americans are investing massively in chip manufacture in the US, onshoring production that has belonged to the far East. We really need to be doing the same if we can find a major player who can be incentivised to make the investment.

    Things are really bad right now but more than 50% of chips currently come from Taiwan. If things really kick off with China we will be looking back to now as the good old days.
    Intel have recently announced they are putting lots of money into Ireland to build a new plant. Much as I'd like to have production in Britain I think this might end up being something a bit like agriculture, where a British deficit in supply is balanced by an Irish surplus, and so what looks like a strategic weakness is not as big a deal as it appears at first sight.
    I will be a lot more comfortable getting chips from Ireland than I am from a potential war zone. But, like you, I would still like some UK production.
    It wasn't going to happen post Brexit but being blunt it probably wasn't going to happen anyway. Ireland is just a easier choice for these things in a lot of ways - especially for American firms.

    TSMC are supposedly heading to Dresden because that is where the rest of the European expertise is unless they head to Austria...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
    I think most of us could do that translation :smile: .

    Yesterday on R5 PMQ coverage none of the commentators had ever used, and for 2 out of 3, never heard of, "pettifogging".

    My best example of pettifogging is when a dustman refuses to empty your bin because the lid is 1cm up from being closed, and it is required to be closed.

    Drapes not drapery for me. A chaise longue is a very specific thing.

    Have a read of an interior design blog, which tend to be popular with slightly too up-themselves types. Try https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/
    Can’t help wondering if a self avowed former communist is really the best person to do this. Sorry @NickPalmer ! No offence intended.
    Weren't most of New Labour self-avowed former communists of various stripes?
  • Don’t feed the troll cry a dozen posters as they prepare tasty, hot troll meals.
    Takes me back to Edmund’s widget..
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
    He would have been a great Tory leader, possibly even something like the new Macmillan.

    If Johnsonism is completely discredited in the future, ofcourse..
    The longer Boris lasts the less likely a return is.
  • MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
    I think most of us could do that translation :smile: .

    Yesterday on R5 PMQ coverage none of the commentators had ever used, and for 2 out of 3, never heard of, "pettifogging".

    My best example of pettifogging is when a dustman refuses to empty your bin because the lid is 1cm up from being closed, and it is required to be closed.

    Drapes not drapery for me. A chaise longue is a very specific thing.

    Have a read of an interior design blog, which tend to be popular with slightly too up-themselves types. Try https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/
    Can’t help wondering if a self avowed former communist is really the best person to do this. Sorry @NickPalmer ! No offence intended.
    Weren't most of New Labour self-avowed former communists of various stripes?
    Not forgetting Peter Hitchens, Paul Dacre and various other modern rightwingers..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Quite likely that PM will delay tax rise and cancel law to sack unvaccinated NHS workers in bid to cling to office
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1486611685209260033
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited January 2022

    Have we covered the Neil Young versus Joe Rogan spat yet?

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/spotify-to-remove-neil-youngs-music-after-rockers-ultimatum-over-joe-rogan/

    I'm firmly on the Neil Young side of the argument, although he might have been naive to believe Spotify would drop an 'artist' they paid $100 million to get. Although I am surprised that they haven't told Rogan to calm it down a little.

    Ooof. Who gets the Spotify revenue stream?

    From 6th January 2021:

    An investment firm has bought 50% of the rights to all Neil Young's songs.

    Hipgnosis Songs Fund spent an estimated $150m (£110m) on 1,180 songs written by the Canadian folk rocker.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55557633
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    As I have repeatedly said I am not a US lawyer but what the hell are his lawyers doing? Unclean hands? Of a 17 year old. Jeez.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited January 2022
    I see the government is bunging £100m at Sizewell C to stave off collapse of the project.

    Possibly not unrelated to this...
    France to force EDF to take €8.4bn hit with energy bill cap
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/14/france-edf-cap-household-energy-bills
    The French government will force EDF, the state energy giant, to take an €8.4bn (£7bn) financial hit to protect households from rocketing energy costs by limiting bill hikes to 4% this year...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    Restoration Hardware?

    (Curtain and sofa)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    Same for my car, roughly the same as yours.

    Shame people round here can't park properly and have put a few dings in it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    Yep prices are utterly insane. My 6 year old JCW mini is currently worth more than a paid for it.

    Granted I've thrown 13,000 miles on it in 3 years but that's Covid for you.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    edited January 2022
    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    Quite likely that PM will delay tax rise and cancel law to sack unvaccinated NHS workers in bid to cling to office
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1486611685209260033

    That doesn't make him look strong - it just makes him look like an idiot who is panicking.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Scott_xP said:

    Quite likely that PM will delay tax rise and cancel law to sack unvaccinated NHS workers in bid to cling to office
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1486611685209260033

    Add in a bombastic speech or two and that sounds like classic Boris
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited January 2022
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    Roger said:

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
    I think most of us could do that translation :smile: .

    Yesterday on R5 PMQ coverage none of the commentators had ever used, and for 2 out of 3, never heard of, "pettifogging".

    My best example of pettifogging is when a dustman refuses to empty your bin because the lid is 1cm up from being closed, and it is required to be closed.

    Drapes not drapery for me. A chaise longue is a very specific thing.

    Have a read of an interior design blog, which tend to be popular with slightly too up-themselves types. Try https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/
    Can’t help wondering if a self avowed former communist is really the best person to do this. Sorry @NickPalmer ! No offence intended.
    Hmm, that's unfair. I don't recall you repudiating Adam Tomkins of the ScoTories because (which his Wiki entry [edit] largely omits) he used to be an independist, leftie and republican (so 'raving leftie' no doubt to any good Tory today).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    eek said:

    That doesn't make him look strong - it just makes him look like an idiot who is panicking.

    Yes.

    It keeps in him in a job if he does stuff the backbenchers like
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    His further problem is that he has lost the credibility to make a credible apology.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    Mrs DA just got an i4 M50 and it wasn't available for outright purchase at any price. BMW Leasing or fuck off were the options. It will drift like a bastard with DSC and TC off.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
    He would have been a great Tory leader, possibly even something like the new Macmillan.

    If Johnsonism is completely discredited in the future, ofcourse..
    Johnsonism is completely discredited already - or had you failed to notice?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
    He would have been a great Tory leader, possibly even something like the new Macmillan.

    If Johnsonism is completely discredited in the future, ofcourse..
    The longer Boris lasts the less likely a return is.
    Hardly anyone returns to front line parliamentary politics, having left. It's very hard to think of many examples at all; Roy Jenkins is the only one that comes to mind, and that was in unusual circumstances.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    MattW said:

    His further problem is that he has lost the credibility to make a credible apology.

    He was never credible.

    His fans don't care
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited January 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    Mrs DA just got an i4 M50 and it wasn't available for outright purchase at any price. BMW Leasing or fuck off were the options. It will drift like a bastard with DSC and TC off.
    Is that really ugly, or is that just me?

    Two massive buck teeth

    Edit: GF agrees with me. She has a 2012 Corsa with dodgy brakes.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Jonathan said:

    Off topic, the Lady Pidcock flounced from Labour's PLP yesterday after it refused to her demands to do something it had no power to do. The Jeremy will not return as a Labour MP and will have to defeat a Labour candidate if he wants to continue his life's struggle for irrelevance socialism.

    Will we now finally see the breakaway Trot Left Party founded? I note that Momentum have changed their rules, now openly calling for non-Labour members to get involved in their struggle, so there is another opportunity for Starmer to have them proscribed.

    There are a plethora of left unity parties under the umbrella of that same name. Indeed the more splinter parties there are the more we get left unity apparently. So what next for Jezza and the People's Pidcock and the mentalists still left in Labour. The party doesn't want you or your tool leader and there's no reversing that. Stay? Hope for the rise of Sultana in 2025? Or leave, with the Jeremy as the unifying Bernie figure we all love, leading the way to true socialism by working for a Conservative government.

    Pass the popcorn someone. That #StarmerOut was trending last night in the middle of all this was truly epic.

    Yet another reason that Boris is safe. The opposition has an Achilles heel.
    So do the "Conservatives" - he is called "Farage". They were terrified of him pre-Brexit and they are probably still scared of him post-Brexit.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    edited January 2022
    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,206
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    We (as in my insurance company) just paid someone more for their totalled car than they paid for it two years ago. It's an utterly bonkers market right now.
    My flatmate bought a small Toyota identical to mine, but 6 months younger (09 rather than 58 plate) about a month ago. He paid 15% more for a 11 year old car with 80k miles, than I did 6 years ago for a 8 year old car with 33k miles.
    Looking at Auto-trader, he wasn't robbed either.

    My old boss bought a 6 month old Ford Ranger a year ago - he's just agreed a trade in with the same dealer for £1k more than he paid, having put 25k miles on it!

    We live in strange times when cars essentially aren't losing value despite being used.
    I presume this is what happened in Cuba when US imports stopped.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    So do the "Conservatives" - he is called "Farage". They were terrified of him pre-Brexit and they are probably still scared of him post-Brexit.

    Another manifestation of the fact that Brexit isn't "done"
  • Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Jonathan said:

    Off topic, the Lady Pidcock flounced from Labour's PLP yesterday after it refused to her demands to do something it had no power to do. The Jeremy will not return as a Labour MP and will have to defeat a Labour candidate if he wants to continue his life's struggle for irrelevance socialism.

    Will we now finally see the breakaway Trot Left Party founded? I note that Momentum have changed their rules, now openly calling for non-Labour members to get involved in their struggle, so there is another opportunity for Starmer to have them proscribed.

    There are a plethora of left unity parties under the umbrella of that same name. Indeed the more splinter parties there are the more we get left unity apparently. So what next for Jezza and the People's Pidcock and the mentalists still left in Labour. The party doesn't want you or your tool leader and there's no reversing that. Stay? Hope for the rise of Sultana in 2025? Or leave, with the Jeremy as the unifying Bernie figure we all love, leading the way to true socialism by working for a Conservative government.

    Pass the popcorn someone. That #StarmerOut was trending last night in the middle of all this was truly epic.

    Yet another reason that Boris is safe. The opposition has an Achilles heal.
    Not for the moment, I don't think. Starmer just needs to maintain his current reasonably moderate factional course.
    Yes - the spectacle of the Trots "trotting on" is what people are used to, when the Labour party is being solidly moderate.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296
    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    I'm thinking about buying a car now.
    The cheapest lease deal for a Toyota Yaris I can see within 2 minutes of googling is £6.3k for 2 years.

    But I can buy a second hand one for £11k. Isn't buying second hand a much better deal?
    It seems unlikely the value of the 2nd hand will halve in 2 years?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Yep. A very sad loss to the Commons.
    He would have been a great Tory leader, possibly even something like the new Macmillan.

    If Johnsonism is completely discredited in the future, ofcourse..
    Johnsonism is completely discredited already - or had you failed to notice?
    Yes, but not yet n the eyes of many Tory MP's, unfortunately, and they would be the key electorate for Stewart.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    If anyone is looking for a cheap reliable car, I recommend you buy a 7-8 year old Toyota from a main dealer with about 50k miles. It will cost you around £5k. Under Toyotas warranty programme it will be covered under a full manufacturer warranty until it is 10 years old, as long as Toyota service the car every year, which costs about £400 every year. By year 10 it will probably still be worth about £3.5 - £4k when sold privately.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Scott_xP said:

    So do the "Conservatives" - he is called "Farage". They were terrified of him pre-Brexit and they are probably still scared of him post-Brexit.

    Another manifestation of the fact that Brexit isn't "done"
    Somebody posted a "six stages of a project" thing the other day and said we have reached the "Disillusionment" stage.

    That seems about right to me. I am looking forward to Stage 3 next - "Panic"
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
    It has very big implications how you do it, though. If you're lying very publicly and provocatively, what you're partly appealing to is public cynicism. This is what makes Trump and Johnson different.
  • HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    Because it's about 3% more than most polls at the minute.

    If the Labour lead were regularly 10% he'd be saying that Miliband regularly got 10% leads and its meaningless unless there's a 15% lead.
  • eek said:

    So according to the Daily Mail the PM will respond to the Gray report by apologising for everything that went on. Which in turn is a confession that he misled parliament. Which Starmer got him to accept is a resignation offence.

    Which was the purpose of Wednesday. Lay out the bear trap, entice big dog towards it, smile.

    The constitutional challenge is what happens when the PM refuses to resign. No longer any argument that he lied - repeatedly - to parliament. His confession is part of his way to get past the Gray report and the Met investigation.

    When the PM refuses to follow the law, the standards of ministerial life, openly lies to parliament and then says "yeah so what what y'gonna do suckers" where do we go from there? Its back down to Tory MPs. They can remove him and uphold standards. Or they can cower, and face 2 years of LIARS thrown at them. Most politicians - especially the liars - like to at least have the cover of looking like they tell the truth.

    Not sure that "lies to parliament, lies to you" is the vote winner that Rev HY thinks it is. Despite Brexit.

    Actually it's not just down to Tory MPs. Once Boris has admitted to lying to Parliament it would also be possible for the Speaker to suspend Boris from Parliament for doing so.

    And a 10 day+ ban opens up a recall petition alongside the mother of all by-elections. Especially if Tory MPs don't do anything.

    At least the most entertaining option hasn't occurred. If the letters had arrived last week and Boris had survived the vote we would have been in a scenario where Boris could be suspended from the HoC but the Tory party would have been helpless to do anything.
    As I said yesterday, Starmer's PMQs yesterday were a simple trap for Boris to walk into which he did. Bravura performances won't save him if he lies to the House. Starmer invited the PM to consider some of his past statements to the house which were waffled away. But BJ did conform that lying to the house breaks the ministerial code and means they should resign.

    The evidence of BJ lies is about to become irrefutable. No wiggle room. No ah buts. So the machine either follows due process as the Liar confirmed should happen or it doesn't. The treasury bench won't find a friend in Mr Speaker either, having wound him up to breaking point by disrespecting the house. He will dutifully follow process if the opportunity presents itself.

    Remember the Catch 22. The arbiter of when and how to investigate breeches of the Ministerial Code is the Prime Minister. The Downing Street Press Office have confirmed that where the subject of investigation is the PM, the PM will still retain that role. So its entirely possible that the formal process of investigating the prima facie evidence of Liar breeching the code will not even happen. The Standards Select Committee (chaired by Chris Bryant) can do its own investigation, report to the house and have the Speaker suspend the perpetrator, but that could be a clash with the Cabinet Office not investigating (because not allowed) his breaking of the code by lying to the House.

    Fun times for constitutional geeks ahead. If it comes to it I still don't see how "nothing to see, focus on the big picture" helps the Tories leaving the liar in place. People generally don't like to be lied to even if they accept that politicians lie.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Now this I like

    gathara
    @gathara
    #BREAKING African journalists emerging from risky expeditions into the interior of disease-ridden Caucasian world describe heartbreaking scenes among region's primitive tribes with the sick abandoned by friends and family to die alone while ruling elites enjoy lavish parties.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    rkrkrk said:

    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    I'm thinking about buying a car now.
    The cheapest lease deal for a Toyota Yaris I can see within 2 minutes of googling is £6.3k for 2 years.

    But I can buy a second hand one for £11k. Isn't buying second hand a much better deal?
    It seems unlikely the value of the 2nd hand will halve in 2 years?
    Depends on how you are financing the £11k. We bought a similar car for £9k but with 0% finance.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    Yes, and I increasingly think His Domness will probably seek to bring some revelations forward, too, if they keep dragging out the release.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Partygate has now run from November and will run well into next month and probably longer. Are there other countries where a argument, at the highest level of politics, power and law enforcement, about cakes and balloons can last so long or are we uniquely nuts?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654

    Though I am wary of suggesting too much direct comparison I'm every detail there is a quote on Trump from Fareed Zakaria early in his presidency which seems to apply. I dont have it to hand but it goes something like this:

    I think [he] is somewhat indifferent to things that are true or things that are false. He has spent his whole life bullshitting. He has succeeded by bullshitting. He has gotten to [the job] by bullshitting. So its very difficult in that situation to tell someone that bullshit doesnt work, because look at the results.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    Haggling over phrasing. In my experience anything that says significant will be targeted. Any breach will be listed as a technical one.
  • algarkirk said:

    Partygate has now run from November and will run well into next month and probably longer. Are there other countries where a argument, at the highest level of politics, power and law enforcement, about cakes and balloons can last so long or are we uniquely nuts?

    It's not about cakes and balloons, but public accountability and the rule of law.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
    Scale and frequency do still make a difference.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    algarkirk said:

    Partygate has now run from November and will run well into next month and probably longer. Are there other countries where a argument, at the highest level of politics, power and law enforcement, about cakes and balloons can last so long or are we uniquely nuts?

    I suspect it would run in most countries for similar lengths of time because it has 2 separate issues the first one is partying as others suffered alone and loved ones couldn't help - I'll post this tweet again as it's great

    gathara
    @gathara
    #BREAKING African journalists emerging from risky expeditions into the interior of disease-ridden Caucasian world describe heartbreaking scenes among region's primitive tribes with the sick abandoned by friends and family to die alone while ruling elites enjoy lavish parties.

    And the second bit is the utterly incompetent apologies and resultant cover up that just keeps the story going as more bits drip out and the Government spins ever faster trying to stop things falling apart and the lies completely unravelling.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Quite likely that PM will delay tax rise and cancel law to sack unvaccinated NHS workers in bid to cling to office
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1486611685209260033

    That doesn't make him look strong - it just makes him look like an idiot who is panicking.
    No I think it shows he is pragmatic.

    Labour stands for sacking NHS staff in the middle of a staffing crisis, if that floats your boat.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    algarkirk said:

    Partygate has now run from November and will run well into next month and probably longer. Are there other countries where a argument, at the highest level of politics, power and law enforcement, about cakes and balloons can last so long or are we uniquely nuts?

    You're right - we have unusually high standards for integrity in this country.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    algarkirk said:

    Partygate has now run from November and will run well into next month and probably longer. Are there other countries where a argument, at the highest level of politics, power and law enforcement, about cakes and balloons can last so long or are we uniquely nuts?

    In countries that care about the honesty and integrity of their politicians, he'd have gone by now, and in those that don't, people would have shrugged and moved on. Our unique combination is that these things still matter, to the majority of people at least, but not at all to the man in charge.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296
    darkage said:

    rkrkrk said:

    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    I'm thinking about buying a car now.
    The cheapest lease deal for a Toyota Yaris I can see within 2 minutes of googling is £6.3k for 2 years.

    But I can buy a second hand one for £11k. Isn't buying second hand a much better deal?
    It seems unlikely the value of the 2nd hand will halve in 2 years?
    Depends on how you are financing the £11k. We bought a similar car for £9k but with 0% finance.
    I'm just paying for it up front, not taking out a loan.
    Dave Ramsay rubbing off on me.

    So if I'm not planning to take a loan, then leasing is more expensive?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
    It has very big implications how you do it, though. If you're lying very publicly and provocatively, what you're partly appealing to is public cynicism. This is what makes Trump and Johnson different.
    Blair and Campbell did lie publicly and provocatively - in particular the 24 hous to save the NHS that they put out before the 1997 election, and the "no plans" to introduce tuition fees (they were introduced exactly a year later). I would say that that is up there with almost anything that Trump produced.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
    Scale and frequency do still make a difference.
    Yes, at least Blair saved his lies for the big stuff.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    Eabhal said:

    algarkirk said:

    Partygate has now run from November and will run well into next month and probably longer. Are there other countries where a argument, at the highest level of politics, power and law enforcement, about cakes and balloons can last so long or are we uniquely nuts?

    You're right - we have unusually high standards for integrity in this country.
    Much higher in Germany and Scandinavia. Historically reasonably good, but definitely not the very best ; and they're definitely dropping substantially under Johnson.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    Johnson has passed the moment of maximum peril by drawing this out and complicating it with the Met investigation. He'll be alright no matter what the report says. Last week wasn't tory Kronstadt.

    At least we can retire the always fanciful notion that he was going to retire before the next GE to earn money and spend less time with his families.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report and not just at No 10 but across Whitehall
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
    Scale and frequency do still make a difference.
    Yes, at least Blair saved his lies for the big stuff.
    It's not a competition. The point merely that not all lies are of the same severity or as common, so how big and how often you lie do still matter a bit to people.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    Johnson has passed the moment of maximum peril by drawing this out and complicating it with the Met investigation. He'll be alright no matter what the report says. Last week wasn't tory Kronstadt.

    At least we can retire the always fanciful notion that he was going to retire before the next GE to earn money and spend less time with his families.
    Oh I've suspect that all along - I think it was 2 weeks ago that I said the best bet was SKS for next PM because the Tory party are a bunch of idiots and won't do anything until its too late.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    darkage said:

    Johnsons problem is that he doesn't give a damn about lying. It is part of his political style. The conservatives knew this when they appointed him as leader. The people elected him. It was a rupture with the idea that the truth is and should be the guiding principle in public life. It isn't clear how we get this back. It is a very similar problem to that faced by the US, post Trump.

    We lost that long ago with Blair/Campbell. Johnson learned from them.
    No. Blair and Campbell lied, but didn't make a public virtue of lying and provoking. The model for that is Trump.
    You can't get a little bit pregnant - the sin is lying, not how or why you do it.
    It has very big implications how you do it, though. If you're lying very publicly and provocatively, what you're partly appealing to is public cynicism. This is what makes Trump and Johnson different.
    Blair and Campbell did lie publicly and provocatively - in particular the 24 hous to save the NHS that they put out before the 1997 election, and the "no plans" to introduce tuition fees (they were introduced exactly a year later). I would say that that is up there with almost anything that Trump produced.
    No, I can't agree with that ; those were manifesto promises, rather than provocative actions in office.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    Somebody posted a "six stages of a project" thing the other day and said we have reached the "Disillusionment" stage.

    That seems about right to me. I am looking forward to Stage 3 next - "Panic"

    DK Brown's "Stages of a Project"



    - Enthusiasm
    - Disillusionment
    - Panic
    - The Search for the Guilty
    - The punishment of the Innocent
    - Praise and Honour for the Non-Participants
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited January 2022
    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. Boris by contrast has described himself as a Brexity Heseltine.

    That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    rkrkrk said:

    darkage said:

    rkrkrk said:

    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    I'm thinking about buying a car now.
    The cheapest lease deal for a Toyota Yaris I can see within 2 minutes of googling is £6.3k for 2 years.

    But I can buy a second hand one for £11k. Isn't buying second hand a much better deal?
    It seems unlikely the value of the 2nd hand will halve in 2 years?
    Depends on how you are financing the £11k. We bought a similar car for £9k but with 0% finance.
    I'm just paying for it up front, not taking out a loan.
    Dave Ramsay rubbing off on me.

    So if I'm not planning to take a loan, then leasing is more expensive?
    Not currently. The second hand car prices are probably 25-30% higher than they used to be.

    Now this could be new market rate but equally it could be a short term blip in which case as well as the usual £1-2k annual deprecation the market may revert to normal and that car could be worth £6k

    In your case that still makes purchasing better than leasing but it's a lot tighter than it used to be.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    Mrs DA just got an i4 M50 and it wasn't available for outright purchase at any price. BMW Leasing or fuck off were the options. It will drift like a bastard with DSC and TC off.
    What was wrong with the Taycan Turbo? Much better car.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    Johnson has passed the moment of maximum peril by drawing this out and complicating it with the Met investigation. He'll be alright no matter what the report says. Last week wasn't tory Kronstadt.

    At least we can retire the always fanciful notion that he was going to retire before the next GE to earn money and spend less time with his families.
    Oh I've suspect that all along - I think it was 2 weeks ago that I said the best bet was SKS for next PM because the Tory party are a bunch of idiots and won't do anything until its too late.
    We are in a phoney war, and there is no way of knowing what happens when the shooting starts again. Still not writing off gone by end Q1 bets because I think the most likely outcome is he gets properly nailed for having misled the house.

    Disgust with Johnson rapidly spreading to include every single member of his party.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report and not just at No 10 but across Whitehall
    I think they are linked, actually.

    If junior staff names are redacted, it focuses the report on senior civil servants/politicians and feeds the "rot from the head" narrative.

    They'll want to avoid that at all costs. We have an embedded culture where the more senior you are, the better paid, the less responsibility you take.

    @WhisperingOracle to clarify, I think the public have a keen sense of fairness and honesty. Not Johnson.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for him for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    One of those rare points of agreement between of us, HYUFD. The punitive approach to welfare is played out - discredited academically, and, much more importantly for the government, deeply unpopular in the Red Wall seats at a time of massive strain. Sunak the posh Southerner puts the boot in.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Scott_xP said:

    Somebody posted a "six stages of a project" thing the other day and said we have reached the "Disillusionment" stage.

    That seems about right to me. I am looking forward to Stage 3 next - "Panic"

    DK Brown's "Stages of a Project"



    - Enthusiasm
    - Disillusionment
    - Panic
    - The Search for the Guilty
    - The punishment of the Innocent
    - Praise and Honour for the Non-Participants
    I suspect we will see 3-5 in a single hour as the Gray report comes out.

    Boris's panicking will result in anyone no matter how junior being punished as he tries to protect himself.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report
    I've some sympathy with a junior civil servant encouraged by bosses to join in a party, and we don't really need to know right now that deputy under-secretary Fred Bloggs, who we've never heard of, unwisely joined a gathering. Generic observations about mistakes in judgment would be OK for that sort of thing. But it's urgent that the report comes out quickly now as otherwise everyone will suspect manipulation and that's bad for confidence in government generally, not just this government. Also, normal business needs to proceed whatever is happening at the top, cf. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/26/uk-government-being-immobilised-by-boris-johnson-crisis-say-insiders

    Just redact all civil service names for now and then put it out without further editing. Disciplinary action against minor players can be considered down the line.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    eek said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    Johnson has passed the moment of maximum peril by drawing this out and complicating it with the Met investigation. He'll be alright no matter what the report says. Last week wasn't tory Kronstadt.

    At least we can retire the always fanciful notion that he was going to retire before the next GE to earn money and spend less time with his families.
    Oh I've suspect that all along - I think it was 2 weeks ago that I said the best bet was SKS for next PM because the Tory party are a bunch of idiots and won't do anything until its too late.
    We are in a phoney war, and there is no way of knowing what happens when the shooting starts again. Still not writing off gone by end Q1 bets because I think the most likely outcome is he gets properly nailed for having misled the house.

    Disgust with Johnson rapidly spreading to include every single member of his party.
    JRM Dorries and others?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited January 2022

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report and not just at No 10 but across Whitehall
    At the one event that might fairly described as a party, there were no reports of any politicians being there at all, only the advisors and civil servants.

    The ‘party’ with the birthday cake, was clearly not done with the involvement of Mr Johnson either.

    Many people naively assumed, that the only people that might be mentioned in Ms Gray’s report would be politicians.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report and not just at No 10 but across Whitehall
    Problem is as we know some people actively avoided the parties (and may have been punished in other ways for doing so) so if you don't name names you are tarring the innocent with the same brush.

    Hard to know what the best solution is really as neither option is great...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report
    I've some sympathy with a junior civil servant encouraged by bosses to join in a party, and we don't really need to know right now that deputy under-secretary Fred Bloggs, who we've never heard of, unwisely joined a gathering. Generic observations about mistakes in judgment would be OK for that sort of thing. But it's urgent that the report comes out quickly now as otherwise everyone will suspect manipulation and that's bad for confidence in government generally, not just this government. Also, normal business needs to proceed whatever is happening at the top, cf. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/26/uk-government-being-immobilised-by-boris-johnson-crisis-say-insiders

    Just redact all civil service names for now and then put it out without further editing. Disciplinary action against minor players can be considered down the line.
    Sensible as ever Nick, but it is the unions and their lawyers who are holding this up and of course anything redacted in this way has to be explained by Sue Gray otherwise all hell will break lose
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report and not just at No 10 but across Whitehall
    Problem is as we know some people actively avoided the parties (and may have been punished in other ways for doing so) so if you don't name names you are tarring the innocent with the same brush.

    Hard to know what the best solution is really as neither option is great...
    And senior civil servants uphold the Civil Service Code. They should be named - and sacked - if they broke it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for him for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    One of those rare points of agreement between of us, HYUFD. The punitive approach to welfare is played out - discredited academically, and, much more importantly for the government, deeply unpopular in the Red Wall seats at a time of massive strain. Sunak the posh Southerner puts the boot in.
    You mean Rishi Sunak, mp for Richmond, Yorkshire
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:

    We bought our main car - a 4 year old small hatchback - second hand 18 months ago at inflated main dealer price with 0% finance. We've now paid off the loan. I just did a 'we buy any car' valuation, and found we could sell it for £1k more than we paid for it.

    If I was looking to buy a car now, I wouldn't bother - I would lease one instead. Works out at about £220 per month and has a full warranty, EV's start at £270 per month.

    Mrs DA just got an i4 M50 and it wasn't available for outright purchase at any price. BMW Leasing or fuck off were the options. It will drift like a bastard with DSC and TC off.
    What was wrong with the Taycan Turbo? Much better car.
    Its lease finished so I bought it off the leasing company and flipped it. It wasn't quite the payday I thought it was going to be at the start of the lease but it did alright. Mrs DA liked it but found it too low with not brilliant visibility. She likes the i4 and interestingly says she wouldn't contemplate another ICE car.

    The Taycan was a way better driving experience due to basically being a 971 Panamera with a wider track from the A pillar forward and the two speed DCT but she doesn't give a fuck about stuff like that. The charging is nowhere is near as fast on the i4 but she only ever charges at home.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for him for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    One of those rare points of agreement between of us, HYUFD. The punitive approach to welfare is played out - discredited academically, and, much more importantly for the government, deeply unpopular in the Red Wall seats at a time of massive strain. Sunak the posh Southerner puts the boot in.
    You mean Rishi Sunak, mp for Richmond, Yorkshire
    Yes, but come on, BigG, he seems so Southern in style. The voice of Tony Blair and the dress sense of Jamie Oliver.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. Boris by contrast has described himself as a Brexity Heseltine.

    That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    1 month seems harsh.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Mad dogs and Englishmen...


    ...get prioritised ahead of Afghan interpreters.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for him for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    One of those rare points of agreement between of us, HYUFD. The punitive approach to welfare is played out - discredited academically, and, much more importantly for the government, deeply unpopular in the Red Wall seats at a time of massive strain. Sunak the posh Southerner puts the boot in.
    You mean Rishi Sunak, mp for Richmond, Yorkshire
    Local lad. Never seen without a flat cap.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    LATEST As things stand, senior Government figures are expecting the Sue Gray report early next week.
    The wait goes on ...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1486617236320268291

    Government are going to spend 3-5 days trying to remove anything and everything from it while not understanding that anything removed will be leaked 30 seconds later.
    According to Nick Watts on Newsnight it is the civil service union who are trying to keep the names of junior civil servants out of the report and to protect future employment prospects of those who are to be named

    It is a theme that HMG is trying to redact the report when it is unions who apparently are very worried at how bad the civil service is painted in the report and not just at No 10 but across Whitehall
    Problem is as we know some people actively avoided the parties (and may have been punished in other ways for doing so) so if you don't name names you are tarring the innocent with the same brush.

    Hard to know what the best solution is really as neither option is great...
    Hence the unions delaying the report
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Good morning one and all, from an OKC logging in somewhat later than usual. Quite a good OAP social gathering last night, at which, on the rare occasions politics was raised, no-one had a good word to say for the PM.
    This being in Witham, some of them must have voted Tory!
  • HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for him for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    One of those rare points of agreement between of us, HYUFD. The punitive approach to welfare is played out - discredited academically, and, much more importantly for the government, deeply unpopular in the Red Wall seats at a time of massive strain. Sunak the posh Southerner puts the boot in.
    You mean Rishi Sunak, mp for Richmond, Yorkshire
    Yes, but come on, BigG, he seems so Southern in style. The voice of Tony Blair and the dress sense of Jamie Oliver.
    And very popular
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. Boris by contrast has described himself as a Brexity Heseltine.

    That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    1 month seems harsh.
    Yes, I have reservations about this.

    It seems Sunak as PM would be George Osborne plus Brexit.

    The way to hold the redwall that voted for Brown, Ed Miliband and Corbyn in 2017 and regain the Remain seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD? I have my doubts
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sunak to require jobseekers to look outside their chosen field after just 1 month rather than the current three. Starmer Labour will oppose.

    A clear further sign a Sunak premiership would now be a move more back to austerity and to Boris' economic right. Boris by contrast has described himself as a Brexity Heseltine.

    That may not go down well in the redwall seats that voted for Brown and Ed Miliband before voting for Boris in 2019. Sunak would hope it would have more appeal in the seats Cameron won in 2015 that are now Labour or LD. Only problem for Sunak almost all of them voted Remain like Cameron and he voted for Brexit like Boris

    https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1486495431299325956?s=20

    1 month seems harsh.
    ..and it won't work. Many people will just drop off the system instead, into the street.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Good morning one and all, from an OKC logging in somewhat later than usual. Quite a good OAP social gathering last night, at which, on the rare occasions politics was raised, no-one had a good word to say for the PM.
    This being in Witham, some of them must have voted Tory!

    Indeed.

    My take at the moment is on balance, like Mike, that the tory MPs will not have the bottle and gumption to remove him.

    It's a case for Labour of losing the battle to win the war. Starmer set up Johnson very well yesterday.

    What's really noticeable to me, and I have to say it's surfacing in a small minority of posters on here, is just how much the nasty party has returned.

    Keep Johnson in place and the Conservatives are heading for a crushing defeat in 2024.
This discussion has been closed.