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So is Johnson going to survive as PM or not? – politicalbetting.com

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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Just watched Munich: The Edge of War.
    Leaden, and not nearly enough of the fragrant Liv Lisa Fries.

    Watched that on Friday. A little underwhelming.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022
    What did I say about Phil Salt. Should never have been batting at 6.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris is going nowhere.

    Amazed it even needs a thread.

    From the poster who brought us posts saying, effectively, 6 January will not happen throughout Dec 2020 and up to 5 January. Was then stunned into silence for 72 hours till we all expected another name change. Then came back with the lamest string of What I meant wases in history.

    Yopu should learn from experience. That was a massively odds on prediction and you couldn't get even that right. This one is genuinely in the balance. You are an acknowledged master of What I meant wasery, but why put yourself to the trouble?
    I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about!
    No, I can understand that your memory has done a massive fugue thing out of sheer embarrassment, or that it is convenient to pretend that is the case.

    Going along with the pretence: 6 Jan 2021, storming of the Capitol.
    No pretence, it’s late and I didn’t recognise the date immediately. No need to be so bloody aggressive.

    If you check my posts, you’ll see that I predicted - over and again - that whatever ruse Trump tried, whatever ludicrous challenges in whatever state, whatever else happened, Biden would be inaugurated as planned, on Inauguration Day. And I was right.

    I’ll admit again - as I did then - to being shocked by the violence at the Capitol. I think we all were.

    Regarding Boris, I see you have already subtlety shifted position to “in the balance”. A world away from the emphatic predictions you were making a few days ago (and lecturing me about).

    Of course, I hope you are proved right and I am proved wrong. But I fear the reverse will transpire.

  • Good night folks
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    IshmaelZ said:

    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.

    image

    Formerly Norman of the Sanity Into Number Ten Alliance, most likely now Titiana of the SHERSH Spy Ring, undermining UKs War Leader.
  • Israel COVID update: Number in hospital at all-time high

    - New cases: 93,983
    - Average: 80,575 (+9,030)
    - In hospital: 2,311 (+55)
    - In ICU: 259 (+15)
    - New deaths: 11
    - Average: 22 (-)
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Good night folks

    See you tomorrow (today)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    dixiedean said:

    Just watched Munich: The Edge of War.
    Leaden, and not nearly enough of the fragrant Liv Lisa Fries.

    Watched that on Friday. A little underwhelming.
    Lisa Fries of Babylon Berlin! You’ve just sold it to me. 😋. I’ve got Emmerdale to catch up on as well.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    It's uncanny. Pig Dog has his PPS, Zak "Bollywood" Goldsmith and the S of S for defence lying their heads off in his defence. Can't be bribery, in at least Goldsmith's case. Blackmail? Personal charisma? What?

    https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnsons-parliamentary-assistant-contacted-charter-firm-to-secure-plane-to-evacuate-animals-from-afghanistan-telling-them-boss-was-keen-12526162
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.

    image

    Formerly Norman of the Sanity Into Number Ten Alliance, most likely now Titiana of the SHERSH Spy Ring, undermining UKs War Leader.
    Titiana puts me in mind of Titian hair, and therefore of the flame-haired temptress herself.

    *Retires to bed to dream*
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    IshmaelZ said:

    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.

    image

    Formerly Norman of the Sanity Into Number Ten Alliance, most likely now Titiana of the SHERSH Spy Ring, undermining UKs War Leader.
    Is that Titiana McGrath?
  • Boris Johnson 'will admit serious mistakes in Partygate' and says he regrets lax enforcement of lockdown rules at Number 10 as he fights for his job

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445433/Boris-Johnson-admit-mistakes-Partygate-says-regrets-lax-enforcement.html

    How does he square that circle with all the denials etc?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    LBC did a vox pop on minor celebrities and they asked a London Cabbie what he thought of Pamela Anderson and he said "Put it this way.I wouldn't climb over her to get to my wife"
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Boris Johnson 'will admit serious mistakes in Partygate' and says he regrets lax enforcement of lockdown rules at Number 10 as he fights for his job

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445433/Boris-Johnson-admit-mistakes-Partygate-says-regrets-lax-enforcement.html

    How does he square that circle with all the denials etc?

    Why do you think he will even try to square that circle? It served its purpose and he survived another week. Next week is another battle to gain another week.

    Rinse. Repeat.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Roger said:

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    LBC did a vox pop on minor celebrities and they asked a London Cabbie what he thought of Pamela Anderson and he said "Put it this way.I wouldn't climb over her to get to my wife"
    There’s a rolling pin waiting for him 🙂
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.

    image

    Formerly Norman of the Sanity Into Number Ten Alliance, most likely now Titiana of the SHERSH Spy Ring, undermining UKs War Leader.
    Titiana puts me in mind of Titian hair, and therefore of the flame-haired temptress herself.

    *Retires to bed to dream*
    Wait. I havn’t finished with you yet 🙂

    the chair you liked. Last time it changed hands, £26M

    image
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Boris Johnson 'will admit serious mistakes in Partygate' and says he regrets lax enforcement of lockdown rules at Number 10 as he fights for his job

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445433/Boris-Johnson-admit-mistakes-Partygate-says-regrets-lax-enforcement.html

    How does he square that circle with all the denials etc?

    "For a long time I thought it was unbelievable that there were parties in No 10 during lockdown. I mean who could be so crass when so many were dying and burying their loved ones? Not least the Queen who I hold in the highest regard, especially as she forgave me for lying to her in 2019.

    So to be honest it was just so utterly incredible that I could not bring myself to even contemplate the idea.

    Then, when it was brought to my attention that events that I had thought, in all innocence, were work events complete with powerpoint presentations, were actually parties, I had, reluctantly, to accept that mistakes were being made by members of the civil service who work around me (note: around me and not for me).

    I felt that for the benefit of these hard working civil servants who had, apart from getting lashed every other evening during lockdown, shown exemplary service to the Crown, I should not say too much about what was happening outside my front door and in the flower beds of my own garden.

    For this reason I have kept my peace about what I witnessed. Events that actually shocked me to the core and reinforced my determination to sweep away this vast edifice of elitist, metropolitan, BBC-loving, mediocre administrators and replace them with...


    My old mucker, Dom Cummings.


    Thanks for your time Beth, I must get on. Fantastic times are on the horizon. There's a war on you know."

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Roger said:

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    LBC did a vox pop on minor celebrities and they asked a London Cabbie what he thought of Pamela Anderson and he said "Put it this way.I wouldn't climb over her to get to my wife"
    There’s a rolling pin waiting for him 🙂
    Was he Albanian?
  • Boris Johnson 'will admit serious mistakes in Partygate' and says he regrets lax enforcement of lockdown rules at Number 10 as he fights for his job

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445433/Boris-Johnson-admit-mistakes-Partygate-says-regrets-lax-enforcement.html

    How does he square that circle with all the denials etc?

    "For a long time I thought it was unbelievable that there were parties in No 10 during lockdown. I mean who could be so crass when so many were dying and burying their loved ones? Not least the Queen who I hold in the highest regard, especially as she forgave me for lying to her in 2019.

    So to be honest it was just so utterly incredible that I could not bring myself to even contemplate the idea.

    Then, when it was brought to my attention that events that I had thought, in all innocence, were work events complete with powerpoint presentations, were actually parties, I had, reluctantly, to accept that mistakes were being made by members of the civil service who work around me (note: around me and not for me).

    I felt that for the benefit of these hard working civil servants who had, apart from getting lashed every other evening during lockdown, shown exemplary service to the Crown, I should not say too much about what was happening outside my front door and in the flower beds of my own garden.

    For this reason I have kept my peace about what I witnessed. Events that actually shocked me to the core and reinforced my determination to sweep away this vast edifice of elitist, metropolitan, BBC-loving, mediocre administrators and replace them with...


    My old mucker, Dom Cummings.


    Thanks for your time Beth, I must get on. Fantastic times are on the horizon. There's a war on you know."

    "So to be honest . . ."

    Boris Johnson would be well advised, to NEVER use THAT particular phrase. EVER.
  • Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    Wes is my local MP.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553

    Boris Johnson 'will admit serious mistakes in Partygate' and says he regrets lax enforcement of lockdown rules at Number 10 as he fights for his job

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10445433/Boris-Johnson-admit-mistakes-Partygate-says-regrets-lax-enforcement.html

    How does he square that circle with all the denials etc?

    Why do you think he will even try to square that circle? It served its purpose and he survived another week. Next week is another battle to gain another week.

    Rinse. Repeat.
    It's getting a bit boring actually. I want things to move on, one way or another.
  • Lily James looks OK.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    In Dom We Trust

    He better have something good to leak into the Gray release.

    image

    Formerly Norman of the Sanity Into Number Ten Alliance, most likely now Titiana of the SHERSH Spy Ring, undermining UKs War Leader.
    Titiana puts me in mind of Titian hair, and therefore of the flame-haired temptress herself.

    *Retires to bed to dream*
    Wait. I havn’t finished with you yet 🙂

    the chair you liked. Last time it changed hands, £26M

    image
    You cannot be Sirius.
  • The animals from Afghanistan thing is very odd. In spite of the apparent (electronic) paper trail, there have been vehement denials from Zac and Wallace so perhaps all is not as it seems.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    Wes is my local MP.
    Oh I am sorry 😕
  • Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    Wes is my local MP.
    Oh I am sorry 😕
    Why are you sorry, he's a PM in waiting :)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Roger said:

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    LBC did a vox pop on minor celebrities and they asked a London Cabbie what he thought of Pamela Anderson and he said "Put it this way.I wouldn't climb over her to get to my wife"
    There’s a rolling pin waiting for him 🙂
    Was he Albanian?
    There are so many PB posts I never understand, yet always too ashamed to speak up and reveal my ignorance.

    So how will I ever learn?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Just watched Munich: The Edge of War.
    Leaden, and not nearly enough of the fragrant Liv Lisa Fries.

    *PB favourite LIV LISA FRIES as metaphor alert

    We are not getting everything - the flaming lawyers got their first and redacted the juicy bits! 🤦‍♀️

    image
    Lily James is prettier ;)
    No.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    How the Express captures Boris Johnson’s barnstorming PMQs on Wednesday. Iconic image methinks.

    image
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited January 2022

    The animals from Afghanistan thing is very odd. In spite of the apparent (electronic) paper trail, there have been vehement denials from Zac and Wallace so perhaps all is not as it seems.

    Its probably just like the parties, they told a lie and now trying to cover up something that really isn't that big a deal, and its snowballs, such that the cover up is far far worse than the deed if they admit it.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    Sounds like fun! I'd change everything. What's the point of doing it otherwise? A chaise longue is a type of sofa, so they aren't interchangeable. You should certainly say curtains not 'drapery' (what a foul word).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    edited January 2022
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    rcs1000 said:
    The US is a shitshow. A Democratic presidency is failing because the economy is stuttering because Republicans are too retarded to get vaccinated during a pandemic. Hopefully differential death rates will help the Democrats.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited January 2022

    Just watched Munich: The Edge of War.
    Leaden, and not nearly enough of the fragrant Liv Lisa Fries.

    *PB favourite LIV LISA FRIES as metaphor alert

    We are not getting everything - the flaming lawyers got their first and redacted the juicy bits! 🤦‍♀️


    Is that what you consider appropriate? Guido Fawkes used to post 'hot totty' a few years ago but even he abandoned it when it was realised how revoltingly white old male sexist it was.

    It hardly encourages other females to join this site.

    Still, as long as you believe Boris Johnson is 'barnstorming' that's okay 'eh?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    rcs1000 said:
    Allocated a budget of 37 billion over 2 years - I don't think they spent it all (yet). I think there was a Radio 4 "more or less" on this subject the other day.
    Still a lot of money
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Aslan said:

    rcs1000 said:
    The US is a shitshow. A Democratic presidency is failing because the economy is stuttering because Republicans are too retarded to get vaccinated during a pandemic. Hopefully differential death rates will help the Democrats.
    Jeez how many people do you want to die?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    We (as in my insurance company) just paid someone more for their totalled car than they paid for it two years ago. It's an utterly bonkers market right now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Good morning, everyone.

    They should've tossed him overboard weeks ago, if not late last year.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Heathener said:

    Just watched Munich: The Edge of War.
    Leaden, and not nearly enough of the fragrant Liv Lisa Fries.

    *PB favourite LIV LISA FRIES as metaphor alert

    We are not getting everything - the flaming lawyers got their first and redacted the juicy bits! 🤦‍♀️


    Is that what you consider appropriate? Guido Fawkes used to post 'hot totty' a few years ago but even he abandoned it when it was realised how revoltingly white old male sexist it was.

    It hardly encourages other females to join this site.

    Still, as long as you believe Boris Johnson is 'barnstorming' that's okay 'eh?
    Has anyone told SeanT?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Covid: is being reported that the Government is to scrap limits on numbers of visitors allowed to see relatives in elderly care homes from Monday. The current maximum number per resident is three.

    I don't know if this is the first time that limits on visitors have been scrapped since this whole horror started, but it must come as a huge relief to a lot of people. Assuming that individual homes don't make excuses and keep imposing restrictions on their own initiative, of course.

    Residents who test positive for Covid will still be required to isolate, but the isolation period is to be cut from 14 days to 10 days. Testing and self isolation for people going out of the home on visits is also to be scrapped.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Indeed. A closer look at the UK car market sees that the high-end manufacturers (Bentley, Rolls-Royce, Lotus, Aston Martin etc) have all had record sales numbers, but the high-volume manufacturers are suffering more from the chip shortage.

    Yes, it’s the same everywhere else in the world too.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    We (as in my insurance company) just paid someone more for their totalled car than they paid for it two years ago. It's an utterly bonkers market right now.
    That’s crazy. We bought a new Audi on a PCP three years ago. It is valued about what we paid for it now but I’ve not heard of cars appreciating in value before.

    It won’t get better for at least another year it seems.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Car production just fine in Germany. In 2019 the market reached 3.6 million car passenger sales, the new all-time record. Despite Covid, 2021 was only 10% down on that record year.

    England has knocked herself back to the 1950s. An unforced error of ginormous proportions.

    Talking of “trolls”: epic effort last night highlighting Gordon Brown’s 10,484th announcement of imminent federalism in the Yookay.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Sometimes, a picture tells a thousand words.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Car production just fine in Germany. In 2019 the market reached 3.6 million car passenger sales, the new all-time record. Despite Covid, 2021 was only 10% down on that record year.

    England has knocked herself back to the 1950s. An unforced error of ginormous proportions.

    Talking of “trolls”: epic effort last night highlighting Gordon Brown’s 10,484th announcement of imminent federalism in the Yookay.
    Maybe you should listen to 5 live business this morning which explained the true position rather than yet another anti English rant

    And you missed this

    https://www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/chester-cheshire-news/bentley-announces-25-billion-investment-22875169
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    We (as in my insurance company) just paid someone more for their totalled car than they paid for it two years ago. It's an utterly bonkers market right now.
    I buy E90/F30/G20 3 series at auction, clear all the codes, pay the kid from the village 20 quid to use my dry ice blaster on the engine bay/interior (it makes them look like new) and then sell eBay/FB Marketplace for 5-10 grand more than I paid for them. Easy money, but we've been here many times before in the car game and it never lasts...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    edited January 2022
    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had ordered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
    If you bought a car 18 months ago, pretty much almost any car, it’s likely now worth more than you paid for it.

    In normal times, it’s cheaper to buy a used car and accept slightly higher running costs, vs a new one which suffers high depreciation for the first five years. The last year, and probably the next year, are not normal times though.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
    The Americans are investing massively in chip manufacture in the US, onshoring production that has belonged to the far East. We really need to be doing the same if we can find a major player who can be incentivised to make the investment.

    Things are really bad right now but more than 50% of chips currently come from Taiwan. If things really kick off with China we will be looking back to now as the good old days.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    We (as in my insurance company) just paid someone more for their totalled car than they paid for it two years ago. It's an utterly bonkers market right now.
    I buy E90/F30/G20 3 series at auction, clear all the codes, pay the kid from the village 20 quid to use my dry ice blaster on the engine bay/interior (it makes them look like new) and then sell eBay/FB Marketplace for 5-10 grand more than I paid for them. Easy money, but we've been here many times before in the car game and it never lasts...
    So is that how the seats look so clean on second hand cars 7 years old? I didn't know that but the ones my daughter was looking at all seemed to have remarkably pristine interiors.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022
    I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for very little benefit, as has been already proven with benefit sanctions, to save Johnson's bacon. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:


    high-end manufacturers... Lotus

    Does not compute.

    AM is a bit of a stretch also as they aren't a manufacturer, just a marketing and branding operation that uses Mercedes tech. and powertrains.

  • I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for little benefit, as has been already established with benefit sanctions, because of Johnson's weakness. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



    Seems a very sensible change and widens people's horizons
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for little benefit, as has been already established with benefit sanctions, because of Johnson's weakness. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



    Seems a very sensible change and widens people's horizons
    Every previous change to greater sanctions has had little ultimate benefit, if you read many people's work on it ; they do increase levels of homelessness and mental illness, though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    We (as in my insurance company) just paid someone more for their totalled car than they paid for it two years ago. It's an utterly bonkers market right now.
    I buy E90/F30/G20 3 series at auction, clear all the codes, pay the kid from the village 20 quid to use my dry ice blaster on the engine bay/interior (it makes them look like new) and then sell eBay/FB Marketplace for 5-10 grand more than I paid for them. Easy money, but we've been here many times before in the car game and it never lasts...
    So is that how the seats look so clean on second hand cars 7 years old? I didn't know that but the ones my daughter was looking at all seemed to have remarkably pristine interiors.
    Most people’s idea of cleaning the interior of a car is to run a Hoover around it, and maybe a cloth on the plastic bits. Doing the job properly makes a huge difference, and doesn’t have a huge marginal cost. Car dealers (and former Navy pilots) will have a ‘detail bay’ where they clean and polish them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had ordered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    For a reason too boring to go into I had to come up with a valuation for the 52 reg car we bought secondhand about six years ago. All the cars on AutoTrader for the same model car of about the same vintage were about the same price as we paid six years ago. I am amazed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    high-end manufacturers... Lotus

    Does not compute.

    AM is a bit of a stretch also as they aren't a manufacturer, just a marketing and branding operation that uses Mercedes tech. and powertrains.

    I know you don’t like them, but they’re selling well and keeping skilled jobs in the UK, with new models launching this year too.

    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/lotus-reports-best-sales-for-a-decade/45151
  • I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for little benefit, as has been already established with benefit sanctions, because of Johnson's weakness. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



    Seems a very sensible change and widens people's horizons
    Every previous change to greater sanctions has had little ultimate benefit, if you read many people's work on it ; they do increase levels of homelessness and mental illness, though.
    I am sure that may be the case for some but asking people to widen their job horizons is sensible, especially with so much change in work patterns
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Anecdote. Last Saturday I was helping my daughter buy her first car. I was speaking to the salesman who told me that he had just sold a very nice second hand BMW to a client. The client had otdered new but just received an email saying that the delay on delivery on his new BMW had been increased from 3 to 15 months and he was not willing to wait.

    This seems all too common and why second hand prices are up 30% in a year.

    My current car isn’t the best one I’ve ever had, or the cheapest to run. But I’m still glad I bought it when I did 18 months ago.
    The Americans are investing massively in chip manufacture in the US, onshoring production that has belonged to the far East. We really need to be doing the same if we can find a major player who can be incentivised to make the investment.

    Things are really bad right now but more than 50% of chips currently come from Taiwan. If things really kick off with China we will be looking back to now as the good old days.
    Intel have recently announced they are putting lots of money into Ireland to build a new plant. Much as I'd like to have production in Britain I think this might end up being something a bit like agriculture, where a British deficit in supply is balanced by an Irish surplus, and so what looks like a strategic weakness is not as big a deal as it appears at first sight.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for little benefit, as has been already established with benefit sanctions, because of Johnson's weakness. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



    Seems a very sensible change and widens people's horizons
    Every previous change to greater sanctions has had little ultimate benefit, if you read many people's work on it ; they do increase levels of homelessness and mental illness, though.
    I am sure that may be the case for some but asking people to widen their job horizons is sensible, especially with so much change in work patterns
    There's nothing wrong with that but it's the way that you might do it.

    The National Audit Office and many others disagree that the approach mentioned today achieves anything, and have said so many times. The sanctions approach doesn't seem to work at all, but it does throw many people out of the system all together.

    It does help to save the opportunist's bacon, though.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited January 2022

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    Good. Personal car ownership is an aberration and the sooner we move away from it the better. Sorry, was that too unsympathetic?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Car production just fine in Germany. In 2019 the market reached 3.6 million car passenger sales, the new all-time record. Despite Covid, 2021 was only 10% down on that record year.

    England has knocked herself back to the 1950s. An unforced error of ginormous proportions.

    Talking of “trolls”: epic effort last night highlighting Gordon Brown’s 10,484th announcement of imminent federalism in the Yookay.
    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-opel-plant-to-shut-over-global-chip-shortage/a-59362189
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    edited January 2022
    Mr. Pioneers, I'm awaiting the sea of black rectangles and occasional word that the redacted report might be.

    Edited extra bit: Next PM odds, Sunak out a bit to 3, Starmer shorter slightly at 10.5
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for little benefit, as has been already established with benefit sanctions, because of Johnson's weakness. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



    Seems a very sensible change and widens people's horizons
    It's more about expecting people to take any job, while still applying for their preferred option. Even if it pays less - no-one on UC should be worse off when working. Some sectors are still stuffed and getting a job back in them is going to take time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    So according to the Daily Mail the PM will respond to the Gray report by apologising for everything that went on. Which in turn is a confession that he misled parliament. Which Starmer got him to accept is a resignation offence.

    Which was the purpose of Wednesday. Lay out the bear trap, entice big dog towards it, smile.

    The constitutional challenge is what happens when the PM refuses to resign. No longer any argument that he lied - repeatedly - to parliament. His confession is part of his way to get past the Gray report and the Met investigation.

    When the PM refuses to follow the law, the standards of ministerial life, openly lies to parliament and then says "yeah so what what y'gonna do suckers" where do we go from there? Its back down to Tory MPs. They can remove him and uphold standards. Or they can cower, and face 2 years of LIARS thrown at them. Most politicians - especially the liars - like to at least have the cover of looking like they tell the truth.

    Not sure that "lies to parliament, lies to you" is the vote winner that Rev HY thinks it is. Despite Brexit.

    I'd rather have a lawyer than a liar as PM.

    I feel dirty just for quoting that man, but on this occasion he's actually right.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Have we covered the Neil Young versus Joe Rogan spat yet?

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/spotify-to-remove-neil-youngs-music-after-rockers-ultimatum-over-joe-rogan/

    I'm firmly on the Neil Young side of the argument, although he might have been naive to believe Spotify would drop an 'artist' they paid $100 million to get. Although I am surprised that they haven't told Rogan to calm it down a little.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    ydoethur said:

    So according to the Daily Mail the PM will respond to the Gray report by apologising for everything that went on. Which in turn is a confession that he misled parliament. Which Starmer got him to accept is a resignation offence.

    Which was the purpose of Wednesday. Lay out the bear trap, entice big dog towards it, smile.

    The constitutional challenge is what happens when the PM refuses to resign. No longer any argument that he lied - repeatedly - to parliament. His confession is part of his way to get past the Gray report and the Met investigation.

    When the PM refuses to follow the law, the standards of ministerial life, openly lies to parliament and then says "yeah so what what y'gonna do suckers" where do we go from there? Its back down to Tory MPs. They can remove him and uphold standards. Or they can cower, and face 2 years of LIARS thrown at them. Most politicians - especially the liars - like to at least have the cover of looking like they tell the truth.

    Not sure that "lies to parliament, lies to you" is the vote winner that Rev HY thinks it is. Despite Brexit.

    I'd rather have a lawyer than a liar as PM.

    I feel dirty just for quoting that man, but on this occasion he's actually right.
    Of course, lawyers can be liars as well: they're not mutually exclusive groups. If there weren't so many on here, I might even suggest the Venn diagram of the two groups comprises one circle... ;)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means

    Indy setting up a "Johnson rewrites report" narrative?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Off topic, the Lady Pidcock flounced from Labour's PLP yesterday after it refused to her demands to do something it had no power to do. The Jeremy will not return as a Labour MP and will have to defeat a Labour candidate if he wants to continue his life's struggle for irrelevance socialism.

    Will we now finally see the breakaway Trot Left Party founded? I note that Momentum have changed their rules, now openly calling for non-Labour members to get involved in their struggle, so there is another opportunity for Starmer to have them proscribed.

    There are a plethora of left unity parties under the umbrella of that same name. Indeed the more splinter parties there are the more we get left unity apparently. So what next for Jezza and the People's Pidcock and the mentalists still left in Labour. The party doesn't want you or your tool leader and there's no reversing that. Stay? Hope for the rise of Sultana in 2025? Or leave, with the Jeremy as the unifying Bernie figure we all love, leading the way to true socialism by working for a Conservative government.

    Pass the popcorn someone. That #StarmerOut was trending last night in the middle of all this was truly epic.

    It's like they want their party to be Keirless.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    high-end manufacturers... Lotus

    Does not compute.

    AM is a bit of a stretch also as they aren't a manufacturer, just a marketing and branding operation that uses Mercedes tech. and powertrains.

    I know you don’t like them, but they’re selling well and keeping skilled jobs in the UK, with new models launching this year too.

    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-britishcars/lotus-reports-best-sales-for-a-decade/45151
    My brother had a pre-order for an Elise when they were first released, and got a very early one (this was in the mid 1990s, from memory). Someone offered him something like 5 or 10 grand above the purchase price to buy it off him the week it was delivered. He refused the offer.

    He eventually had two Elise cars, but now seems to be more into JCBs and classic MG cars.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Although I am surprised that they haven't told Rogan to calm it down a little.

    I'm not. Spotify know exactly what they are doing.

    Part of the Human Big Toe's appeal to the low self-esteem QAnon adjacent is his transgressive nature.
  • Mr. Pioneers, I'm awaiting the sea of black rectangles and occasional word that the redacted report might be.

    Edited extra bit: Next PM odds, Sunak out a bit to 3, Starmer shorter slightly at 10.5

    Probably. But if Peppa is forced to make a comprehensive apology statement it WILL force him to admit that what he said in parliament was all lies. He'll try and make out that he was doing it to protect his staff, some WhatApp loyal groupers will do the media round saying "look he's apologised, he was protecting his staffers, move on" and thats the moment the photos of BJ swigging from a wine bottle doing the conga gets released.

    The act is bad. The cover up is worse. Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice is far worse than breaking Covid regulations, and we have numerous reports of Downing Street ordering staff to delete the evidence of them breaking Covid regulations.

    If he goes - and I still expect that he will - the lies and the coverup will do it, not the act itself.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    I will be speaking on @GMB at 735 this morning on why a habit of lying is a problem in a Prime-Minister - a problem for decision-making, and leadership, and the moral character of government. But what is staggering is that this even needs to be said.
    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1486601839101595654
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited January 2022
    Roger said:

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
    I think most of us could do that translation :smile: .

    Yesterday on R5 PMQ coverage none of the commentators had ever used, and for 2 out of 3, never heard of, "pettifogging".

    My best example of pettifogging is when a dustman refuses to empty your bin because the lid is 1cm up from being closed, and it is required to be closed.

    Drapes not drapery for me. A chaise longue is a very specific thing.

    Have a read of an interior design blog, which tend to be popular with slightly too up-themselves types. Try https://www.madaboutthehouse.com/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022
    According to Nick Watt the report savages the civil service in Downing Street and Whitehall and the civil service unions are fighting to protect the identity of junior civil servants and also many who are going to find it very uncomfortable

    Boris is hanging by a thread and I do not know how this pans out but let's see just what Sue Gray does say as it is going to be very dramatic
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    .

    I see that the unemployed in an already complerely dysfunctional UC system are going to be the next to suffer, this time with higher levels of mental and physical illness again for little benefit, as has been already established with benefit sanctions, because of Johnson's weakness. What a wretched and indifferent opportunist he ultimately is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/27/universal-credit-claimants-face-tough-sanctions-in-uk-job-crackdown



    Seems a very sensible change and widens people's horizons
    Every previous change to greater sanctions has had little ultimate benefit, if you read many people's work on it ; they do increase levels of homelessness and mental illness, though.
    I am sure that may be the case for some but asking people to widen their job horizons is sensible, especially with so much change in work patterns
    Asking people to, sure. Providing training in a new field, even better. Making them worry that a bureaucrat with targets to meet is going to cut their benefits and leave them with not even the pittance of UC to live on - how is that going to help? The stress and worry will make it harder for them to successfully apply for a job.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Car production just fine in Germany. In 2019 the market reached 3.6 million car passenger sales, the new all-time record. Despite Covid, 2021 was only 10% down on that record year.

    England has knocked herself back to the 1950s. An unforced error of ginormous proportions.

    Talking of “trolls”: epic effort last night highlighting Gordon Brown’s 10,484th announcement of imminent federalism in the Yookay.
    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-opel-plant-to-shut-over-global-chip-shortage/a-59362189
    Well quite. His poor efforts to troll the group blaming Brexit for the car industrys woes are most amusing

    https://en.vda.de/en/services/facts-and-figures.html

    Sept 2021 down 44% on the prior year in Germany
    Aug 2021 down 37% on the prior yer in Germany.

    A good start to 2021 is masking a steep decline. The use of inventory and the inability to replenish it is hampering everywhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Have we covered the Neil Young versus Joe Rogan spat yet?

    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/01/spotify-to-remove-neil-youngs-music-after-rockers-ultimatum-over-joe-rogan/

    I'm firmly on the Neil Young side of the argument, although he might have been naive to believe Spotify would drop an 'artist' they paid $100 million to get. Although I am surprised that they haven't told Rogan to calm it down a little.

    I’m not sure Rogan quite understands the extent of his influence, but he can be a bit of an idiot with some of the Covid stuff, which verges on conspiracy theory and cherry-picking of statistics and ‘experts’.

    In his defence, he does say that he’s a moron and a clown, and that people should speak to a real doctor for medical advise. His interview with epidemiologist Michael Osterholm, right back at the start of the pandemic, was the point where many of us realised what was about to happen.

    Young is also an idiot though, he said he wants his music off Spotify, and they are obliging him. Not that he owns most of the rights to his own music any more anyway, having taking a big cheque not so long ago.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    Off topic, the Lady Pidcock flounced from Labour's PLP yesterday after it refused to her demands to do something it had no power to do. The Jeremy will not return as a Labour MP and will have to defeat a Labour candidate if he wants to continue his life's struggle for irrelevance socialism.

    Will we now finally see the breakaway Trot Left Party founded? I note that Momentum have changed their rules, now openly calling for non-Labour members to get involved in their struggle, so there is another opportunity for Starmer to have them proscribed.

    There are a plethora of left unity parties under the umbrella of that same name. Indeed the more splinter parties there are the more we get left unity apparently. So what next for Jezza and the People's Pidcock and the mentalists still left in Labour. The party doesn't want you or your tool leader and there's no reversing that. Stay? Hope for the rise of Sultana in 2025? Or leave, with the Jeremy as the unifying Bernie figure we all love, leading the way to true socialism by working for a Conservative government.

    Pass the popcorn someone. That #StarmerOut was trending last night in the middle of all this was truly epic.

    As long as Starmer continues to ignore Mandelson's counter-productive advice on stage-managed conflicts with the left, and keeps a good relationship with a fair part of it, as he's much more successfully been doing for the last few months, I don't think that will come to anything big enough to be a problem for him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    So according to the Daily Mail the PM will respond to the Gray report by apologising for everything that went on. Which in turn is a confession that he misled parliament. Which Starmer got him to accept is a resignation offence.

    Which was the purpose of Wednesday. Lay out the bear trap, entice big dog towards it, smile.

    The constitutional challenge is what happens when the PM refuses to resign. No longer any argument that he lied - repeatedly - to parliament. His confession is part of his way to get past the Gray report and the Met investigation.

    When the PM refuses to follow the law, the standards of ministerial life, openly lies to parliament and then says "yeah so what what y'gonna do suckers" where do we go from there? Its back down to Tory MPs. They can remove him and uphold standards. Or they can cower, and face 2 years of LIARS thrown at them. Most politicians - especially the liars - like to at least have the cover of looking like they tell the truth.

    Not sure that "lies to parliament, lies to you" is the vote winner that Rev HY thinks it is. Despite Brexit.

    I'd rather have a lawyer than a liar as PM.

    I feel dirty just for quoting that man, but on this occasion he's actually right.
    When the liar emerges victorious he will crush the saboteurs including the hapless lawyer.

    Inch-perfect Johnsonian government some die. Happy days!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    Personally, couldn’t be more depressed about politics than I am now. Boris is safe. Tory MPs not only bottled it, they’ve doubled down backing the lying shit. A man who will say and do anything to save his skin, The country is not in safe hands. Validated and encouraged by this episode he will increasingly adopt Trumpian tactics. The ultras in the county love it. Honest traditional conservatism is dead, Wrenching him from number 10 is going to be seriously hard.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,133
    edited January 2022

    Mr. Pioneers, I'm awaiting the sea of black rectangles and occasional word that the redacted report might be.

    Edited extra bit: Next PM odds, Sunak out a bit to 3, Starmer shorter slightly at 10.5

    Probably. But if Peppa is forced to make a comprehensive apology statement it WILL force him to admit that what he said in parliament was all lies. He'll try and make out that he was doing it to protect his staff, some WhatApp loyal groupers will do the media round saying "look he's apologised, he was protecting his staffers, move on" and thats the moment the photos of BJ swigging from a wine bottle doing the conga gets released.

    The act is bad. The cover up is worse. Conspiracy to Pervert the Course of Justice is far worse than breaking Covid regulations, and we have numerous reports of Downing Street ordering staff to delete the evidence of them breaking Covid regulations.

    If he goes - and I still expect that he will - the lies and the coverup will do it, not the act itself.
    ..and don't forget, also - that that's where Cummings might come straight back in. In fact I'm almost certain that will be the case.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    So according to the Daily Mail the PM will respond to the Gray report by apologising for everything that went on. Which in turn is a confession that he misled parliament. Which Starmer got him to accept is a resignation offence.

    Which was the purpose of Wednesday. Lay out the bear trap, entice big dog towards it, smile.

    The constitutional challenge is what happens when the PM refuses to resign. No longer any argument that he lied - repeatedly - to parliament. His confession is part of his way to get past the Gray report and the Met investigation.

    When the PM refuses to follow the law, the standards of ministerial life, openly lies to parliament and then says "yeah so what what y'gonna do suckers" where do we go from there? Its back down to Tory MPs. They can remove him and uphold standards. Or they can cower, and face 2 years of LIARS thrown at them. Most politicians - especially the liars - like to at least have the cover of looking like they tell the truth.

    Not sure that "lies to parliament, lies to you" is the vote winner that Rev HY thinks it is. Despite Brexit.

    Actually it's not just down to Tory MPs. Once Boris has admitted to lying to Parliament it would also be possible for the Speaker to suspend Boris from Parliament for doing so.

    And a 10 day+ ban opens up a recall petition alongside the mother of all by-elections. Especially if Tory MPs don't do anything.

    At least the most entertaining option hasn't occurred. If the letters had arrived last week and Boris had survived the vote we would have been in a scenario where Boris could be suspended from the HoC but the Tory party would have been helpless to do anything.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    English car production slumps to lowest level since 1956

    Well done all you Leave voters out there. What a bunch of total chumps.

    How’s the Scottish car production figures, by way of comparison?
    Probably not worth feeding the troll.

    Car production is, globally, in the doldrums due to the continued shortage of micro chips.

    Hence the large increase in the prices of second hand cars over the last year or so.
    Car production just fine in Germany. In 2019 the market reached 3.6 million car passenger sales, the new all-time record. Despite Covid, 2021 was only 10% down on that record year.

    England has knocked herself back to the 1950s. An unforced error of ginormous proportions.

    Talking of “trolls”: epic effort last night highlighting Gordon Brown’s 10,484th announcement of imminent federalism in the Yookay.
    https://www.dw.com/en/germany-opel-plant-to-shut-over-global-chip-shortage/a-59362189
    Well quite. His poor efforts to troll the group blaming Brexit for the car industrys woes are most amusing

    https://en.vda.de/en/services/facts-and-figures.html

    Sept 2021 down 44% on the prior year in Germany
    Aug 2021 down 37% on the prior yer in Germany.

    A good start to 2021 is masking a steep decline. The use of inventory and the inability to replenish it is hampering everywhere.
    Cars are big in Sweden as well.

    What are the figures for there? I can't seem to find them.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    edited January 2022

    Off topic, the Lady Pidcock flounced from Labour's PLP yesterday after it refused to her demands to do something it had no power to do. The Jeremy will not return as a Labour MP and will have to defeat a Labour candidate if he wants to continue his life's struggle for irrelevance socialism.

    Will we now finally see the breakaway Trot Left Party founded? I note that Momentum have changed their rules, now openly calling for non-Labour members to get involved in their struggle, so there is another opportunity for Starmer to have them proscribed.

    There are a plethora of left unity parties under the umbrella of that same name. Indeed the more splinter parties there are the more we get left unity apparently. So what next for Jezza and the People's Pidcock and the mentalists still left in Labour. The party doesn't want you or your tool leader and there's no reversing that. Stay? Hope for the rise of Sultana in 2025? Or leave, with the Jeremy as the unifying Bernie figure we all love, leading the way to true socialism by working for a Conservative government.

    Pass the popcorn someone. That #StarmerOut was trending last night in the middle of all this was truly epic.

    Yet another reason that Boris is safe. The opposition has an Achilles heel.
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