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So is Johnson going to survive as PM or not? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,161
edited February 2022 in General
imageSo is Johnson going to survive as PM or not? – politicalbetting.com

By far the biggest current political betting market is the one above on when will Boris Johnson cease to be Prime Minister. As can seen from the chart there has been a movement away from him going early but it’s still a 68% chance,

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • I think he'll ride out most of the year now potentially even to December but we'll see how events play out.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Yes.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited January 2022
    Paulette Hamilton won Labour selection for Erdington byelection tonight

    Labourlist reports she won 89 to 32 votes for the other shortlisted candidate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited January 2022
    If i was England I think I would have opened with Salt. He is somebody who will either score at an insane rate or get out, he doesn't really have an inbetween.
  • I have no idea but my mp has text me tonight to say they are awaiting the Sue Gray report
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    Some of this Corbyn Cult stuff is just plain funny:


    James.T.Crewtocks
    @crewtocks
    ·
    3h
    Replying to
    @Rachael_Swindon and @lifesabitch_2

    A new Socialist Party set up by @jeremycorbyn
    would have a membership of 200, 000 within the month. Possibly 300, 000 at the 6 months mark.
  • Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    He might, but he should not.
    Greened out on Betfair, but still have a larger return if he gets booted in 2022.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Boris will resign in late 2023. Assuming that Lord JRM of Snob can nullify the VoNC with his constitutional expertise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited January 2022

    Some of this Corbyn Cult stuff is just plain funny:


    James.T.Crewtocks
    @crewtocks
    ·
    3h
    Replying to
    @Rachael_Swindon and @lifesabitch_2

    A new Socialist Party set up by @jeremycorbyn
    would have a membership of 200, 000 within the month. Possibly 300, 000 at the 6 months mark.

    With growth numbers like that do they work for the HSA? 1 million new members by next Tuesday....
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Some of this Corbyn Cult stuff is just plain funny:


    James.T.Crewtocks
    @crewtocks
    ·
    3h
    Replying to
    @Rachael_Swindon and @lifesabitch_2

    A new Socialist Party set up by @jeremycorbyn
    would have a membership of 200, 000 within the month. Possibly 300, 000 at the 6 months mark.

    Except it would not be a socialist party, it would be a bunch of raving Marxists
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Some of this Corbyn Cult stuff is just plain funny:


    James.T.Crewtocks
    @crewtocks
    ·
    3h
    Replying to
    @Rachael_Swindon and @lifesabitch_2

    A new Socialist Party set up by @jeremycorbyn
    would have a membership of 200, 000 within the month. Possibly 300, 000 at the 6 months mark.

    With growth numbers like that do they work for the HSA? 1 million new members by next Tuesday....
    Ferguson has done a graph. Straight line. Upwards. Could be more members than the CPSU.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022
    Farooq said:

    I have no idea but my mp has text me tonight to say they are awaiting the Sue Gray report

    VLADIMIR:
    That passed the time.
    ESTRAGON:
    It would have passed in any case.
    VLADIMIR:
    Yes, but not so rapidly.
    Pause.
    ESTRAGON:
    What do we do now?
    VLADIMIR:
    I don't know.
    ESTRAGON:
    Let's go.
    VLADIMIR:
    We can't.
    ESTRAGON:
    Why not?
    VLADIMIR:
    We're waiting for Sue Gray.
    Yes, but it does confirm much speculation that Boris's immediate future depends on the report

    However, if the Independent headline that lawyers have scrubbed the report us true, then goodness knows what happens next
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means

    Just means they are taking out stuff about individuals especially lower ranks etc - I think.

    The overall thrust should be the same.

    Maybe @Cyclefree will know more?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk
  • On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    Portillo and Redwood, even Heseltine would have lost in 1997 too
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means

    Someone has been busy with a black marker pen. 10,000 words, 9,999 of them redacted.
  • It is tricky to assess, but on Alastair's figures, over 90 Tory MPs have outed themselves as hostile or icy, with a further large number cool. That's a substantial chunk of the parliamentary party who are marked as traitors by the Boris gang, and who therefore need the coup to succeed.

    I don't know whether Boris can hang on, but I do know that the government and party will descend even further info fractiousness and chaos if he does. A new leader at least would have a chance of getting a grip.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    Quite possibly. But it is not unsalvagable. They cling to that and won't act.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Nigelb said:

    Jeez, at least half of PB would be locked up if this caught on here.
    @TheScreamingEagles would likely get a capital sentence. Not good.

    journalist ‘will not go unpunished’ for insult, says Erdoğan
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/26/turkey-journalist-will-not-go-unpunished-for-insult-says-erdogan
    … Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, has promised that a well-known television journalist would not go “unpunished” after she was arrested for allegedly insulting him.

    Police detained Sedef Kabaş at her home at 2am on Saturday, just hours after she aired the comments and then posted them on Twitter to her 900,000 followers.

    The alleged insult was a proverb that translates as: “When the ox comes to the palace, he does not become a king. But the palace becomes a barn.”

    She was formally arrested after appearing in court.

    “This offence will not go unpunished,” Erdoğan said in an interview aired on private television channel NTV.

    “It is our duty to protect the respect of my function, of the presidency,” he said. “It has nothing to do with freedom of expression.”…

    Yes, you have to wonder if aspiring dictators look in the mirror sometimes and realise what they are, or if they really believe their own bullshit. Someone literally used a variant of that one tonight on here.

    When you go after such petty crap, you have to know you are either a dictator or a batman villain.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,989
    several newspapers tonight leading with liar headlines. And everyone just shrugs
  • Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means

    Just means they are taking out stuff about individuals especially lower ranks etc - I think.

    The overall thrust should be the same.

    Maybe @Cyclefree will know more?
    It says scrubbed the report

    This could be a big moment or maybe not
  • HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    Nor me
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited January 2022
    Am I missing something, England have Salt down to bat at 6. He never acts as a finisher when he plays big bash etc as that isn't how he plays, its all or nothing. You pick a Billings if you want a finisher at 6.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means

    Bloody lawyers
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Some of this Corbyn Cult stuff is just plain funny:


    James.T.Crewtocks
    @crewtocks
    ·
    3h
    Replying to
    @Rachael_Swindon and @lifesabitch_2

    A new Socialist Party set up by @jeremycorbyn
    would have a membership of 200, 000 within the month. Possibly 300, 000 at the 6 months mark.

    It's sad more than funny, since so far in his career he's shown no inclination to go elsewhere
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    kle4 said:

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    Quite possibly. But it is not unsalvagable. They cling to that and won't act.
    I maintain that whatever happens in next two years, it will end up being an incredibly close election. Tories are bidding for a unique 5th term. Labour offer the first decent and serious front bench team in years with a time for change argument.

    Today, if pressed I would say we are looking at a Lab minority government.

    But there are two years to go.

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    I think Boris is fatally wounded in truth - it seems quiet, because a large chunk of the party aren’t prepared to speak just yet

  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    But an 8% or 9% lead would still be well within margin of error. Do you mean a consistent 10% average over a period of time?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248

    Some of this Corbyn Cult stuff is just plain funny:


    James.T.Crewtocks
    @crewtocks
    ·
    3h
    Replying to
    @Rachael_Swindon and @lifesabitch_2

    A new Socialist Party set up by @jeremycorbyn
    would have a membership of 200, 000 within the month. Possibly 300, 000 at the 6 months mark.

    With growth numbers like that do they work for the HSA? 1 million new members by next Tuesday....
    Ferguson has done a graph. Straight line. Upwards. Could be more members than the CPSU.
    I think we have reached crossover with iSage.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Paulette Hamilton won Labour selection for Erdington byelection tonight

    Labourlist reports she won 89 to 32 votes for the other shortlisted candidate.

    Longstanding councillor, member of the Fawcett Society that encourages women to go into politics. She has an interesting background, different from most MPs, so would add experience to the House:

    https://change-us.org/cllr-paulette-hamilton/
  • From the Independent

    Officials in Westminster are now said to be 'fearful' the document may not become public until Monday due to a process of 'legal scrubbing' currently taking place

    This ensures that the final report does not unfairly identify junior staff or cut across the separate investigation by the Metropolitan police
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    From the Independent

    Officials in Westminster are now said to be 'fearful' the document may not become public until Monday due to a process of 'legal scrubbing' currently taking place

    This ensures that the final report does not unfairly identify junior staff or cut across the separate investigation by the Metropolitan police

    This was always going to happen, at least the first bit about junior staff.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited January 2022

    From the Independent

    Officials in Westminster are now said to be 'fearful' the document may not become public until Monday due to a process of 'legal scrubbing' currently taking place

    This ensures that the final report does not unfairly identify junior staff or cut across the separate investigation by the Metropolitan police

    Why shouldn't junior staff be named if they broke the rules? We are talking about grown ups, not kids.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454

    From the Independent

    Officials in Westminster are now said to be 'fearful' the document may not become public until Monday due to a process of 'legal scrubbing' currently taking place

    This ensures that the final report does not unfairly identify junior staff or cut across the separate investigation by the Metropolitan police

    Who do the scrubbers work for I wonder
  • From the Independent

    Officials in Westminster are now said to be 'fearful' the document may not become public until Monday due to a process of 'legal scrubbing' currently taking place

    This ensures that the final report does not unfairly identify junior staff or cut across the separate investigation by the Metropolitan police

    Why shouldn't junior staff be named if they broke the rules?
    I am only quoting the independent as I am not qualified to express an opinion
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    Criminality unproven really doesn't save Johnson. Getting off on a technicality is a cop out .

    Did he break the Ministerial Code? Did he mislead Parliament? More importantly, did he break the spirit of the Covid rules?

    The latter is absolutely crucial, the Queen sat alone on a chapel pew while her late husband was about to be buried, while Johnson was surrounded by empty bottles is not a good look. Does Dom have a photo?
  • From the Independent

    Officials in Westminster are now said to be 'fearful' the document may not become public until Monday due to a process of 'legal scrubbing' currently taking place

    This ensures that the final report does not unfairly identify junior staff or cut across the separate investigation by the Metropolitan police

    Who do the scrubbers work for I wonder
    Civil service union probably
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    I don't think the top of the line figures are taking into account the extent to which tactical voting is going to come into play next time.

    The 'anti tory' sentiment will be similar to 97. Even just getting the Lib Dems back to 25 MPs will have a significant impact on knocking down the Tory majority.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Paulette Hamilton won Labour selection for Erdington byelection tonight

    Labourlist reports she won 89 to 32 votes for the other shortlisted candidate.

    Longstanding councillor, member of the Fawcett Society that encourages women to go into politics. She has an interesting background, different from most MPs, so would add experience to the House:

    https://change-us.org/cllr-paulette-hamilton/
    Certainly sounds like solid Brum stock who would be a worthy representative of the area. Good luck to her.

    Hope the Johnson candidate loses their deposit.
  • HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    Criminality really doesn't save Johnson. Getting off on a technicality is a cop out .

    Did he break the Ministerial Code? Did he mislead Parliament? More importantly, did he break the spirit of the Covid rules?

    The latter is absolutely crucial, the Queen sat alone on a chapel pew while her late husband was about to be buried, while Johnson was surrounded by empty bottles is not a good look. Does Dom have a photo?
    On that occasion he was not there and that is not even in dispute
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Dods on Newsnight confronted with the question

    "Why is your leader less popular than your Party what do voters not like about Keir Starmer"

    I could have provided a much clearer answer but she didn't exactly jump to his defence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    But an 8% or 9% lead would still be well within margin of error. Do you mean a consistent 10% average over a period of time?
    Yes
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    I wouldn’t call it from this distance out. So many voters still think he is great at delivery, Brexit, beating covid, and he will dub the next Parliament the “great levelling up and uniting Parliament” and sell them that.

    It could work as part of peoples nature is to be in it for themselves, and to believe political promises that sound great.

    If Brexit can win in 2016, Boris can still win on delivering levelling up in 2024.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,912
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    I don't think the top of the line figures are taking into account the extent to which tactical voting is going to come into play next time.

    The 'anti tory' sentiment will be similar to 97. Even just getting the Lib Dems back to 25 MPs will have a significant impact on knocking down the Tory majority.
    LD gains do not add anything to the chance of a Labour majority though.

    Labour needs to be 12% ahead of the Tories after the boundary changes even for a majority of 1
  • Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    Avoid anything that sound like Julian Fellowes has written it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Tomorrow's Independent

    Grays report scrubbed by lawyers

    Whatever that means

    Did they mean to type scrubbed by leaders?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    Drapery just about does it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    You need to factor in the age of the target audience as well!

    Young Brits more likely to have absorbed a load of americanisms.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    Just taking out all the spelling mistakes should get you off to a good start.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited January 2022

    Paulette Hamilton won Labour selection for Erdington byelection tonight

    Labourlist reports she won 89 to 32 votes for the other shortlisted candidate.

    Longstanding councillor, member of the Fawcett Society that encourages women to go into politics. She has an interesting background, different from most MPs, so would add experience to the House:

    https://change-us.org/cllr-paulette-hamilton/
    Certainly sounds like solid Brum stock who would be a worthy representative of the area. Good luck to her.

    Hope the Johnson candidate loses their deposit.
    I don’t think she’s a great selection, tbh. Likeable, for sure, but that’s not enough for a good mp. I’m pretty sure she was on newsnight some time ago, in the early stages of Covid, and didn’t come across as very professional or persuasive.

    Labour need genuine talent if they’re to form a competent government. Paulette is rather mediocre, imo.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    I wouldn’t call it from this distance out. So many voters still think he is great at delivery, Brexit, beating covid, and he will dub the next Parliament the “great levelling up and uniting Parliament” and sell them that.

    It could work as part of peoples nature is to be in it for themselves, and to believe political promises that sound great.

    If Brexit can win in 2016, Boris can still win on delivering levelling up in 2024.
    Despite facing the chagrin of 99% of the posters on this site, Boris and CON can still deliver it in GE 2024 👍
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022
    It is the first time for a while tomorrow's front pages are less about Sue Gray and more about Prince Andrew

    Indeed the Times has no mention of it at all on their front page

    I am sure they will make up for it when the report is published
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706
    "He's [Johnson] takin' the royal mickey out of us"

    Pure Bury.

    BBC2 focus group



  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    Americans are less likely to mispronounce sofa than chaise longue.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    I don't think the top of the line figures are taking into account the extent to which tactical voting is going to come into play next time.

    The 'anti tory' sentiment will be similar to 97. Even just getting the Lib Dems back to 25 MPs will have a significant impact on knocking down the Tory majority.
    LD gains do not add anything to the chance of a Labour majority though.

    Labour needs to be 12% ahead of the Tories after the boundary changes even for a majority of 1
    Assuming uniform swing and no change in demographics of course
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    I don't think the top of the line figures are taking into account the extent to which tactical voting is going to come into play next time.

    The 'anti tory' sentiment will be similar to 97. Even just getting the Lib Dems back to 25 MPs will have a significant impact on knocking down the Tory majority.
    LD gains do not add anything to the chance of a Labour majority though.

    Labour needs to be 12% ahead of the Tories after the boundary changes even for a majority of 1
    You keep mentioning "after the boundary changes".
    Since these won't kick in until late 2023, why are you regarding current opinion polls as gospel?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    I don't think the top of the line figures are taking into account the extent to which tactical voting is going to come into play next time.

    The 'anti tory' sentiment will be similar to 97. Even just getting the Lib Dems back to 25 MPs will have a significant impact on knocking down the Tory majority.
    LD gains do not add anything to the chance of a Labour majority though.

    Labour needs to be 12% ahead of the Tories after the boundary changes even for a majority of 1
    You keep mentioning "after the boundary changes".
    Since these won't kick in until late 2023, why are you regarding current opinion polls as gospel?
    To be fair he usually quotes post the boundary changes which is an option on electoral calculas
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    I can give you a serious answer Nick. Use the internet for ideas.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    If the LDs/Greens are north of 15% combined, but RefUK are south of 5%, tactical voting will see Labour over the line in lots of marginal seats, thus reducing the necessary lead that UNS would imply.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,661
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Provided Gray does not find Boris did anything criminal he should survive as long as the Labour lead is under 10%.

    If however the Labour lead goes back above 10% and the Tories suffer heavy losses in May's local elections he would be at risk

    I’ve absolutely no idea why you’re obsessed with this arbitrary 10% figure
    As it is roughly the difference between a hung parliament and a Labour majority
    But either case is a Labour government.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    "He's [Johnson] takin' the royal mickey out of us"

    Pure Bury.

    BBC2 focus group



    But the love for Johnson despite the Partygate scandal remains, it's the media! The utter visceral hatred for Starmer, particularly from the red-headed woman was palpable. The lack of any Conservative replacement surprising.

    My conclusion? HYUFD is correct. Johnson survives, and wins the next GE comfortably. Unbelievable under the circumstances.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    It is the first time for a while tomorrow's front pages are less about Sue Gray and more about Prince Andrew

    Indeed the Times has no mention of it at all on their front page

    I am sure they will make up for it when the report is published

    To be fair there was basically no news today on PartyGate, so front pages will be elsewhere.

    But there's a definite feeling the Tory tribe is pulling back and deciding to stick with Johnson a while longer.

    I suspect that Sunak and Truss have let it be known that now is not a good time for either of them to be running for leadership or indeed taking over. Far too much shit coming down the tracks.

    Glad I am now all green on Johnson exit date.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    I can give you a serious answer Nick. Use the internet for ideas.
    Just crib the terms from lululytle.com
  • It is the first time for a while tomorrow's front pages are less about Sue Gray and more about Prince Andrew

    Indeed the Times has no mention of it at all on their front page

    I am sure they will make up for it when the report is published

    To be fair there was basically no news today on PartyGate, so front pages will be elsewhere.

    But there's a definite feeling the Tory tribe is pulling back and deciding to stick with Johnson a while longer.

    I suspect that Sunak and Truss have let it be known that now is not a good time for either of them to be running for leadership or indeed taking over. Far too much shit coming down the tracks.

    Glad I am now all green on Johnson exit date.
    If he survives the next couple of weeks he may survive for sometime, especially if May is not a blood bath
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 2022

    "He's [Johnson] takin' the royal mickey out of us"

    Pure Bury.

    BBC2 focus group



    But the love for Johnson despite the Partygate scandal remains, it's the media! The utter visceral hatred for Starmer, particularly from the red-headed woman was palpable. The lack of any Conservative replacement surprising.

    My conclusion? HYUFD is correct. Johnson survives, and wins the next GE comfortably. Unbelievable under the circumstances.
    I don't think so. Many people have changed their minds about Johnson recently. I don't think they can win if he stays.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited January 2022
    No he isn't. 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months but its coming in good time.

    What surprises me is how some think the party rebellion is dead for now and others who cant see that, even if current investigations don't directly pin stuff on Johnson, that after the elections in May are likely to be a point to try to oust him.

    The public overall appear a bit pissed off & a bit bored of Boris and the ballot box is likely to tell that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    "He's [Johnson] takin' the royal mickey out of us"

    Pure Bury.

    BBC2 focus group



    But the love for Johnson despite the Partygate scandal remains, it's the media! The utter visceral hatred for Starmer, particularly from the red-headed woman was palpable. The lack of any Conservative replacement surprising.

    My conclusion? HYUFD is correct. Johnson survives, and wins the next GE comfortably. Unbelievable under the circumstances.
    He will not win comfortably. It is going to be an incredibly tight GE imho. All to play for on both sides. Neither by 2024 will have a knockout blow available.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    I wouldn’t call it from this distance out. So many voters still think he is great at delivery, Brexit, beating covid, and he will dub the next Parliament the “great levelling up and uniting Parliament” and sell them that.

    It could work as part of peoples nature is to be in it for themselves, and to believe political promises that sound great.

    If Brexit can win in 2016, Boris can still win on delivering levelling up in 2024.
    Despite facing the chagrin of 99% of the posters on this site, Boris and CON can still deliver it in GE 2024 👍
    Says a Watford fan. Always the optimist?

    A prediction: Johnson survives, Watford won't.
  • "He's [Johnson] takin' the royal mickey out of us"

    Pure Bury.

    BBC2 focus group



    But the love for Johnson despite the Partygate scandal remains, it's the media! The utter visceral hatred for Starmer, particularly from the red-headed woman was palpable. The lack of any Conservative replacement surprising.

    My conclusion? HYUFD is correct. Johnson survives, and wins the next GE comfortably. Unbelievable under the circumstances.
    I don't think so. Many people have changed their minds about Johnson recently. I don't think they can win if he stays.
    There is logic in your comment but how can anyone be sure
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    On topic. I agree with Mike.

    To me the whole mood feels to have shifted a lot from the dangerous place for Boris two weeks ago. A vonc will come as a surprise now.

    Having survived this I reckon he goes all the way to fight the election now.

    And lose it like Major did?
    I wouldn’t call it from this distance out. So many voters still think he is great at delivery, Brexit, beating covid, and he will dub the next Parliament the “great levelling up and uniting Parliament” and sell them that.

    It could work as part of peoples nature is to be in it for themselves, and to believe political promises that sound great.

    If Brexit can win in 2016, Boris can still win on delivering levelling up in 2024.
    Despite facing the chagrin of 99% of the posters on this site, Boris and CON can still deliver it in GE 2024 👍
    Says a Watford fan. Always the optimist?

    A prediction: Johnson survives, Watford won't.
    A reasonable call! ❤️
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,706

    Andrew Lilico
    @andrew_lilico
    ·
    18m
    When you emerge into a mask-free world tomorrow, remember: Boris did that.

    ===

    Because he was panicking about what the backbench would think especially the Spartans and the CRG.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022

    "He's [Johnson] takin' the royal mickey out of us"

    Pure Bury.

    BBC2 focus group



    But the love for Johnson despite the Partygate scandal remains, it's the media! The utter visceral hatred for Starmer, particularly from the red-headed woman was palpable. The lack of any Conservative replacement surprising.

    My conclusion? HYUFD is correct. Johnson survives, and wins the next GE comfortably. Unbelievable under the circumstances.
    He will not win comfortably. It is going to be an incredibly tight GE imho. All to play for on both sides. Neither by 2024 will have a knockout blow available.
    I hope you are right. Despite the initial criticism of Johnson they almost all came around to saying what a good guy he is, corralled by the red head admittedly. Was that Bartholomew Roberts in a wig?

    The economy could still sink the emboldened post Partygate Johnson.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Yokes said:

    No he isn't. 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months but its coming in good time.

    What surprises me is how some think the party rebellion is dead for now and others who cant see that, even if current investigations don't directly pin stuff on Johnson, that after the elections in May are likely to be a point to try to oust him.

    The public overall appear a bit pissed off & a bit bored of Boris and the ballot box is likely to tell that.

    That is why I think he will go in late 2023 (assuming he survives this week). Boris will not stick around to lose the 2024 election, he will let someone else carry that can.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    #StarmerOut is trending on Twitter. Not sure why.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Boris is going nowhere.

    Amazed it even needs a thread.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited January 2022
    Andy_JS said:

    #StarmerOut is trending on Twitter. Not sure why.

    Anger over Corbyn not being readmitted and the NEC vote today. As long as Starmer keeps away from Mandelson's advice and doesn't deliberately alienate the left, as he's not been doing throughout his recent recovered period, I don't think it will amount to much.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    #StarmerOut is trending on Twitter. Not sure why.

    In response to the fragrant Rebecca Long Bailey I would have thought
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    "It's drapery for Bozo"

    No. Stick with curtains.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    Andy_JS said:

    #StarmerOut is trending on Twitter. Not sure why.

    Its because people have sod all better to do and that is the highlight of their day, sticking hashtags on stuff on Twitter as if its really a big deal.

    Says me..on a forum..posting...

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?
  • Yokes said:

    Andy_JS said:

    #StarmerOut is trending on Twitter. Not sure why.

    Its because people have sod all better to do and that is the highlight of their day, sticking hashtags on stuff on Twitter as if its really a big deal.

    Says me..on a forum..posting...

    I seemed to remember dave cameron out trended night after night for months at one point.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Boris is going nowhere.

    Amazed it even needs a thread.

    From the poster who brought us posts saying, effectively, 6 January will not happen throughout Dec 2020 and up to 5 January. Was then stunned into silence for 72 hours till we all expected another name change. Then came back with the lamest string of What I meant wases in history.

    Yopu should learn from experience. That was a massively odds on prediction and you couldn't get even that right. This one is genuinely in the balance. You are an acknowledged master of What I meant wasery, but why put yourself to the trouble?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    He isn't very interesting.

    What you hear at PMQs is mediated via cunningly placed microphones, very different from the raw sound. Which is why you can't hear any of the heckling, which is prob the best bit.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    Is it just me…

    Or is Lily James body not a patch on Pamala Anderson’s?

    Speaker Hoyle is ruining PMQs? There’s not that much noise, but he still shushing everyone too much. Someone get him a hearing aid.

    Todays Matt is brilliant 😄

    Has everyone else already had more than enough of Wes “Ed balls love child” Streeting?

    I think Lindsay is ok!

    If Wes grows up he can be PM 2029 in GE after next. Drop the politicking, show leadership and he can offer far more than Keir or other LAB aspirants like Angela, Rachel LOL.

    GN all 👍
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    It's a toughie. You need to know your market. Sofa, couch, settee, chesterfield. A minefield of class assumption.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400

    Andy_JS said:

    #StarmerOut is trending on Twitter. Not sure why.

    Anger over Corbyn not being readmitted and the NEC vote today. As long as Starmer keeps away from Mandelson's advice and doesn't deliberately alienate the left, as he's not been doing throughout his recent recovered period, I don't think it will amount to much.
    Yes. There's the Left and the left.
    They aren't the same.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris is going nowhere.

    Amazed it even needs a thread.

    From the poster who brought us posts saying, effectively, 6 January will not happen throughout Dec 2020 and up to 5 January. Was then stunned into silence for 72 hours till we all expected another name change. Then came back with the lamest string of What I meant wases in history.

    Yopu should learn from experience. That was a massively odds on prediction and you couldn't get even that right. This one is genuinely in the balance. You are an acknowledged master of What I meant wasery, but why put yourself to the trouble?
    I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
  • Just watched Munich: The Edge of War.
    Leaden, and not nearly enough of the fragrant Liv Lisa Fries.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Boris is going nowhere.

    Amazed it even needs a thread.

    From the poster who brought us posts saying, effectively, 6 January will not happen throughout Dec 2020 and up to 5 January. Was then stunned into silence for 72 hours till we all expected another name change. Then came back with the lamest string of What I meant wases in history.

    Yopu should learn from experience. That was a massively odds on prediction and you couldn't get even that right. This one is genuinely in the balance. You are an acknowledged master of What I meant wasery, but why put yourself to the trouble?
    I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about!
    No, I can understand that your memory has done a massive fugue thing out of sheer embarrassment, or that it is convenient to pretend that is the case.

    Going along with the pretence: 6 Jan 2021, storming of the Capitol.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    edited January 2022

    Paulette Hamilton won Labour selection for Erdington byelection tonight

    Labourlist reports she won 89 to 32 votes for the other shortlisted candidate.

    The seat has never had a female MP AFAIK. If elected it would take the number of women MPs to 224, assuming the Tories hold Southend West next week.
  • Roger said:

    Incidentally, as some of you know I have a spare-time job as a translator. My current project was one that I didn't know even existed - translation from American to English. The client is a very, very posh home decoration company, anxious to ensure that their $250 rugs and $10,000 sideboards get a warm reception in Britain unmarred by gauche Americanisms.

    It is not my natural environment (think IKEA). But it's quite fun, and not quite as easy as I first thought, because there's an element of writing style advice. Should one say "drapery" or "curtains"? "chaise longue" or "sofa?" When does "elegant English" become OTT?

    That's a good story and it really isn't easy. I had a pre production meeting for Bissel Vacuum cleaners in Chicago and I kept talking about 'hoover' and 'hoovering' and I could see the discomfort on everyone' s face but I wasn't sure what it was about my idea that everyone seemed to dislike so much!

    Even my own American producer didn't know what I was on about. Beyond that there were 'faucets' which I hadn't come across and to make my discomfort complete I asked for 'white coffee'.
    Wait till the guys start asking if you want to see their suspenders.
This discussion has been closed.