Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......
Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
I know this one...
An optimist says that the glass is half full.
A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.
An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned. But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
Groucho was a great reader and his political philosophy that all politicians are clueless batshit crazy morons has stood the test of time far better than 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!'
I mean, people still watch Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera.
Are you following me? Well, stop following me or I'll have you arrested.
We are so far off thread now that I'll mention my favorite Groucho story.
Apparently he was a great admirer of TS Eliot. The poet likewise loved Groucho's films, and invited him to dinner. Apparently it was a disaster because all Groucho wanted to do was talk about poetry, and Eliot...well you've got it.
There was a Radio 3 play, decades ago, exploring that story, called A Night at the Waste Land. I think there was real talk of Thommo writing a Marx brothers movie script.
Utterly bonkers, but also brilliant, and a good example of not asking creatives what they will do with your money in advance.
Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.
I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.
Even when you're wrong.
I’m often wrong.
And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.
But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.
You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.
Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
Yes
Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is
And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.
And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.
Which wasn’t true.
But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.
C’est la vie.
F*** me! French!
Have we rejoined?
The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
Is the right answer. It only recently overtook Paris, AIUI.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned. But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
Groucho was a great reader and his political philosophy that all politicians are clueless batshit crazy morons has stood the test of time far better than 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!'
I mean, people still watch Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera.
Are you following me? Well, stop following me or I'll have you arrested.
We are so far off thread now that I'll mention my favorite Groucho story.
Apparently he was a great admirer of TS Eliot. The poet likewise loved Groucho's films, and invited him to dinner. Apparently it was a disaster because all Groucho wanted to do was talk about poetry, and Eliot...well you've got it.
There was a Radio 3 play, decades ago, exploring that story, called A Night at the Waste Land. I think there was real talk of Thommo writing a Marx brothers movie script.
Utterly bonkers, but also brilliant, and a good example of not asking creatives what they will do with your money in advance.
Thanks, I'd never heard that before.
Btw, you refer to the poet as Thommo. Do I take it that we can no longer call him as TS because of the offence it may cause to the transexual community?
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned. But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
Groucho was a great reader and his political philosophy that all politicians are clueless batshit crazy morons has stood the test of time far better than 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!'
I mean, people still watch Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera.
Are you following me? Well, stop following me or I'll have you arrested.
We are so far off thread now that I'll mention my favorite Groucho story.
Apparently he was a great admirer of TS Eliot. The poet likewise loved Groucho's films, and invited him to dinner. Apparently it was a disaster because all Groucho wanted to do was talk about poetry, and Eliot...well you've got it.
There was a Radio 3 play, decades ago, exploring that story, called A Night at the Waste Land. I think there was real talk of Thommo writing a Marx brothers movie script.
Utterly bonkers, but also brilliant, and a good example of not asking creatives what they will do with your money in advance.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......
Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
I know this one...
An optimist says that the glass is half full.
A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.
An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......
Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
I know this one...
An optimist says that the glass is half full.
A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.
An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
We need more engineers!
No, we need more beer
Leon and I want to know why you lot haven’t filled our glasses yet?
I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
Unserious politician that got elected.
Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
What do you suppose we should do about it.
Who's we?
If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.
Not your flavour? Fair enough.
Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
Brown nosing is the main qualification these days I think
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned. But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
Groucho was a great reader and his political philosophy that all politicians are clueless batshit crazy morons has stood the test of time far better than 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!'
I mean, people still watch Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera.
Are you following me? Well, stop following me or I'll have you arrested.
We are so far off thread now that I'll mention my favorite Groucho story.
Apparently he was a great admirer of TS Eliot. The poet likewise loved Groucho's films, and invited him to dinner. Apparently it was a disaster because all Groucho wanted to do was talk about poetry, and Eliot...well you've got it.
There was a Radio 3 play, decades ago, exploring that story, called A Night at the Waste Land. I think there was real talk of Thommo writing a Marx brothers movie script.
Utterly bonkers, but also brilliant, and a good example of not asking creatives what they will do with your money in advance.
Thanks, I'd never heard that before.
Btw, you refer to the poet as Thommo. Do I take it that we can no longer call him as TS because of the offence it may cause to the transexual community?
Nah, one of the lines that stick with me, in a way that I'm sure there are more useful things to have in my brain;
Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.
I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.
Even when you're wrong.
I’m often wrong.
And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.
But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.
You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.
Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
Yes
Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is
And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.
And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.
Which wasn’t true.
But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.
C’est la vie.
F*** me! French!
Have we rejoined?
The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
Is the right answer. It only recently overtook Paris, AIUI.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......
Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
I know this one...
An optimist says that the glass is half full.
A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.
An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
We need more engineers!
A Number 10 spad says sod the f***ing glass, get me a suitcase.
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
1. As we are camped out on OGH's virtual front porch, it is call of him & his duly appointed moderators whether to kick someone off of their - or rather his - perch.
2. That acknowledged, am personally adverse to banning on PB, esp. when it comes to permanent bans.
3. Also feel that virtually every PBer has at one time or another, in a moment of madness OR sanity, has posted something(s0 that could be reasonably regarded as worth of (a)ban(don)ment.
4. While NOT my favorite politico (not by a long shot) Enoch Powell did say at least one very insightful thing:
When a fervent supporter told him that he wished the House of Commons was filled with MPs like him, Powell demurred, replying (I paraphrase) that Parliament was like a regiment - it's a continuum, from the hero whose reckless courage earns (or deserves) a VC, to the hopeless slacker who is constantly AWOL when not in the brig (or glasshouse if you prefer). An organization that was all one or the other, or anywhere in between, would be bound to fail.
5. Am just woke enough to cherish diversity even when it pisses me off. Which some PBers can achieve just by showing up! And am quite certain that yours truly returns the favor!!
Back in the old days, I used to collect all the IPs and run them through a reverse IP lookup service, and it was very amusing to discover that in the top five were the IP addresses for the Houses of Parliament and for News International.
Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.
I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.
Even when you're wrong.
I’m often wrong.
And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.
But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.
You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.
Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
Yes
Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is
And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.
And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.
Which wasn’t true.
But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.
C’est la vie.
F*** me! French!
Have we rejoined?
The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
Is the right answer. It only recently overtook Paris, AIUI.
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
Back in the old days, I used to collect all the IPs and run them through a reverse IP lookup service, and it was very amusing to discover that in the top five were the IP addresses for the Houses of Parliament and for News International.
Off topic, but TIL. Anne Frank and Martin Luther King were born in the same year (1929). Three years after HM Queen. They'd be 94 this year.
I found a discussion on the Today programme this week on who was responsible for dobbing in the Frank family to the Gestapo slightly weird. Obviously it's of interest but there seemed to be a discomfiting need to find who was to blame.
Well I’d start with Hitler, himmler, the ss, the gestapo, lots of the German people first. By what I heard the robber was a Dutch person trying to save his own family, so it’s a moral mess. But if the nazis hadn’t invaded and started murdering Jews, Anne Frank wouldn’t have been murdered.
6. Please note that some distinguished (in more ways than one) PBers have made themselves familiar parts of our woodwork. With "Leon" and Malc two cases in point. Am willing to trade frequent, even habitual irritation > indignation, for their insights, perspectives AND the more-than-occasional pleasure of their company.
Plus they've said nice things about even me from time-to-time, which shows kindness of heart, if not acuity of brain!
Off topic, but TIL. Anne Frank and Martin Luther King were born in the same year (1929). Three years after HM Queen. They'd be 94 this year.
I found a discussion on the Today programme this week on who was responsible for dobbing in the Frank family to the Gestapo slightly weird. Obviously it's of interest but there seemed to be a discomfiting need to find who was to blame.
Well I’d start with Hitler, himmler, the ss, the gestapo, lots of the German people first. By what I heard the robber was a Dutch person trying to save his own family, so it’s a moral mess. But if the nazis hadn’t invaded and started murdering Jews, Anne Frank wouldn’t have been murdered.
The claim the dobber was Jewish will delight the far right. I am all for the preeminence of truth but if I had uncovered the evidence I might have taken a long time to get round to publishing
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
My treason is complete, I agree wholeheartedly with that analysis.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
I've duelled with Leon's many incarnations for a decade or more, and have come to feel OK with him as a literate, sometimes witty provocateur. In the early days I took him seriously, and felt as you do now, but I think it does add something to the site to have someone offering half-serious wild opinions in coherent form (unlike, say, MalcolmG, who I might be closer to politically as he's merely SNP but who just rips off a few lines of usually meaningless abuse). (Example today: "Tell the woke halfwits to take a hike an dpeddle their crap elsewhere, you call them exactly wht you want to and take mince from no man or woman" - eh?)
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
Is that the same Freedland who would get rid of the Queen tomorrow if he could?
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
BDS* is back! It keeps on mutating but somehow only ever causes illness in the previously infected. The problem with Boris is....Boris.
If you think the government funnelling public money to target constituencies is new, I've got a Humber Bridge to sell you.
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
My treason is complete, I agree wholeheartedly with that analysis.
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
Is that the same Freedland who would get rid of the Queen tomorrow if he could?
I don't think it matters if Freeland is a republican, he can still feel sorrow for a widowed lady sitting lonely in a cold chapel whilst No 10 partied.
Boris Johnson’s chief of staff cancels meeting amid rumours he faces the sack
Dan Rosenfield pulls out of weekly catch-up, fuelling talk he might be moved on under PM’s reported Downing Street shake-up
In fairness, taking flak for your political boss is part of the job description - it's why Cummings was never a good fit, and why he has been so destructive, since he clearly never saw himself as expendable despite aides being glorified bag carriers.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
I've duelled with Leon's many incarnations for a decade or more, and have come to feel OK with him as a literate, sometimes witty provocateur. In the early days I took him seriously, and felt as you do now, but I think it does add something to the site to have someone offering half-serious wild opinions in coherent form (unlike, say, MalcolmG, who I might be closer to politically as he's merely SNP but who just rips off a few lines of usually meaningless abuse). (Example today: "Tell the woke halfwits to take a hike an dpeddle their crap elsewhere, you call them exactly wht you want to and take mince from no man or woman" - eh?)
Think of Malcolm as an avant garde poet.
I got on better with Malcolm once we agreed that we wouldn't say to each other anything on-line that we wouldn't say face-to-face.
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
So it’ll be fairly obvious he has something to hide, and his own MPs will be wanting to see the full report, since the AG promised them that they would.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......
Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
I know this one...
An optimist says that the glass is half full.
A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.
An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Stan Laurel says: 'My half was at the bottom, so when you made me go first you forced me to drink yours as well.'
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
So it’ll be fairly obvious he has something to hide, and his own MPs will be wanting to see the full report, since the AG promised them that they would.
The same poll concludes Boris/Rishi can still win GE 24
Yes, but I was really surprised to see that Rishi polls little better than Boris. That suggests that the problem is the Party rather than the leader. That's not what I would have expected.
Am I misreading something? If I am not, your team's problems may run deeper than I thought.
After 10 years in power most parties in government lose.
Major's Tories were the exception in 1992 but he had a major policy difference from Thatcher in that he dumped the poll tax. What is the major policy difference between Sunak and Boris?
I hope Rishi's difference is that he has some policies.
I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
Unserious politician that got elected.
Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
What do you suppose we should do about it.
Who's we?
If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.
Not your flavour? Fair enough.
Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
Who was monarch after Henry VIII? (being slightly cruel)
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
Freedland: The origin of all this – a Conservative party happily trampling on the union, the monarchy and the cultural organisation that binds these islands together like no other – is not hard to fathom, though it has become impolite to mention it. It’s Brexit that transformed the Conservative party.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
Is that the same Freedland who would get rid of the Queen tomorrow if he could?
It is just Brexit Derangement Syndrome resurfaced. The vandalism was overwhelmingly on the Remain Side, trying to overturn a democratic vote. The reality is that Orban supports EU membership for the same reason people like Juncker do - because it's a lovely source of money and jobs to fluff the nests of political allies with. Elitists that are filled with contempt for votes, just like the latest member of the PLP, crossing the floor without any input from his constituents.
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
So it’ll be fairly obvious he has something to hide, and his own MPs will be wanting to see the full report, since the AG promised them that they would.
The report will be delivered verbally by Ms Gray to Boris Johnson himself. He will then share a short precis of Ms Gray's findings.
Boris Johnson’s chief of staff cancels meeting amid rumours he faces the sack
Dan Rosenfield pulls out of weekly catch-up, fuelling talk he might be moved on under PM’s reported Downing Street shake-up
Fuck this is getting pathetic
The Rosenfield email says
An email, which The Telegraph has seen, read: “Give the change to Plan B restrictions as announced by the PM this week and that some of you will have made plans around today’s all SpAd meeting being virtual, we will be moving today’s meeting to next week so that we can meet in person.
“We look forward to gathering again in person at No 10 next week!”
which could just be boringly true.
Plus Hope has just tweeted the tedious wine spilled on photocopier story which was released 4 hours ago anyway. Thin stuff doesn't get thinner than this
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
So it’ll be fairly obvious he has something to hide, and his own MPs will be wanting to see the full report, since the AG promised them that they would.
The report will be delivered verbally by Ms Gray to Boris Johnson himself. He will then share a short precis of Ms Gray's findings.
It is clear that only a gullible idiot would believe that the Prime Minister didn't know about these parties.
I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
Unserious politician that got elected.
Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
What do you suppose we should do about it.
Who's we?
If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.
Not your flavour? Fair enough.
Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
Who was monarch after Henry VIII? (being slightly cruel)
Edward VI. Easy to remember as he founded my school.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
The incredible thing is that the Tories have fallen 10% behind Labour before the cost of living starts going up meaningfully. The known changes we have to come:
- National Insurance tax hike in April - Further gas/electricity bill increases once the price cap is lifted, also in April - Broadband and phone bills going up by close to 4% above CPI (so almost 10%) from March - Interest rates expcted to increase from close to zero to around 1% by the end of the year
The worst thing is there is nothing the government can really do about this. If wages keep up with prices then inflation becomes ingrained and rates will have to go higher still. It is the same story in the US.
Any competent government would struggle politically with all that. This one will have a really hard time having blown all its political goodwill on a few nights out.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
Qatar Airlines recieved pretty much all the initial A350 deliveries, and I suspect that Airbus rushed them out the door to avoid late penalties (and to prove they were shipping the A350). What I'm surprised about is that this hasn't been settled - as most aviation disputes are - quietly out of court.
The disgraceful events before Philip's funeral were leaving do parties and the point about them is that Boris was not there
As I have just said the danger for Boris is whether he was aware of them before or after and indeed had he been invited
Downing Street is expressing concerned over the report and is this the silver bullet
Big G, when was the last party in your house of which you knew nothing?
Are you telling me that these matters are more casually handled in Downing Street than they would be in a domestic residence in North Wales?
Please don't pull the plonker. It's not nice.
Sorry have you not read what I have said
I said this is the danger for Boris on exactly what he knew and when about these two parties and querying if this is the silver bullet
And yes my wife and I went on holiday in the 1980s , and our teenage children had a party in our house which we were not told about until years after
Johnson's evolving defence, from "I wasn't there", through "it was a work event", to "nobody told me it broke the rules" beggars belief BigG
My comments do not contradict your view and ask is this the silver bullet
It is the silver bullet that would have dispatched anyone else. Johnson is Captain Scarlet, he is indestructible.
Nobody is indestructible
I recall the Peter Hain scandal in 2008, when Hain's Deputy Leadership campaign fund failed to declare £100k of donations. Hain battled on for ten days refusing to resign before eventually falling on his sword . BBC news as I recall were relentless in their persuit. BBC R4 by contrast had more or less given up on Johnson today.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
The disgraceful events before Philip's funeral were leaving do parties and the point about them is that Boris was not there
As I have just said the danger for Boris is whether he was aware of them before or after and indeed had he been invited
Downing Street is expressing concerned over the report and is this the silver bullet
Big G, when was the last party in your house of which you knew nothing?
Are you telling me that these matters are more casually handled in Downing Street than they would be in a domestic residence in North Wales?
Please don't pull the plonker. It's not nice.
Sorry have you not read what I have said
I said this is the danger for Boris on exactly what he knew and when about these two parties and querying if this is the silver bullet
And yes my wife and I went on holiday in the 1980s , and our teenage children had a party in our house which we were not told about until years after
Johnson's evolving defence, from "I wasn't there", through "it was a work event", to "nobody told me it broke the rules" beggars belief BigG
My comments do not contradict your view and ask is this the silver bullet
It is the silver bullet that would have dispatched anyone else. Johnson is Captain Scarlet, he is indestructible.
Nobody is indestructible
I recall the Peter Hain scandal in 2008, when Hain's Deputy Leadership campaign fund failed to declare £100k of donations. Hain battled on for ten days refusing to resign before eventually falling on his sword . BBC news as I recall were relentless in their persuit. BBC R4 by contrast had more or less given up on Johnson today.
Johnson is special, and rules really don't apply
You mean the Conservative Party is special. Especially when it makes noises about Defunding the BBC.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
I've duelled with Leon's many incarnations for a decade or more, and have come to feel OK with him as a literate, sometimes witty provocateur. In the early days I took him seriously, and felt as you do now, but I think it does add something to the site to have someone offering half-serious wild opinions in coherent form (unlike, say, MalcolmG, who I might be closer to politically as he's merely SNP but who just rips off a few lines of usually meaningless abuse). (Example today: "Tell the woke halfwits to take a hike an dpeddle their crap elsewhere, you call them exactly wht you want to and take mince from no man or woman" - eh?)
I have to disagree with your post Nick on just two points:
The disgraceful events before Philip's funeral were leaving do parties and the point about them is that Boris was not there
As I have just said the danger for Boris is whether he was aware of them before or after and indeed had he been invited
Downing Street is expressing concerned over the report and is this the silver bullet
Big G, when was the last party in your house of which you knew nothing?
Are you telling me that these matters are more casually handled in Downing Street than they would be in a domestic residence in North Wales?
Please don't pull the plonker. It's not nice.
Sorry have you not read what I have said
I said this is the danger for Boris on exactly what he knew and when about these two parties and querying if this is the silver bullet
And yes my wife and I went on holiday in the 1980s , and our teenage children had a party in our house which we were not told about until years after
Johnson's evolving defence, from "I wasn't there", through "it was a work event", to "nobody told me it broke the rules" beggars belief BigG
My comments do not contradict your view and ask is this the silver bullet
It is the silver bullet that would have dispatched anyone else. Johnson is Captain Scarlet, he is indestructible.
Nobody is indestructible
I recall the Peter Hain scandal in 2008, when Hain's Deputy Leadership campaign fund failed to declare £100k of donations. Hain battled on for ten days refusing to resign before eventually falling on his sword . BBC news as I recall were relentless in their persuit. BBC R4 by contrast had more or less given up on Johnson today.
Johnson is special, and rules really don't apply
You mean the Conservative Party is special. Especially when it makes noises about Defunding the BBC.
They'll defund themselves if they cling to the license fee.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree I want ev'rybody to be free
But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......
Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
I know this one...
An optimist says that the glass is half full.
A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.
An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
We need more engineers!
No!!! That tus a bl**dy accountant. An engineer would design an auto-resiziong glass
All the engineers I worked with would have emptied the glass.
The incredible thing is that the Tories have fallen 10% behind Labour before the cost of living starts going up meaningfully. The known changes we have to come:
- National Insurance tax hike in April - Further gas/electricity bill increases once the price cap is lifted, also in April - Broadband and phone bills going up by close to 4% above CPI (so almost 10%) from March - Interest rates expcted to increase from close to zero to around 1% by the end of the year
The worst thing is there is nothing the government can really do about this. If wages keep up with prices then inflation becomes ingrained and rates will have to go higher still. It is the same story in the US.
Any competent government would struggle politically with all that. This one will have a really hard time having blown all its political goodwill on a few nights out.
I don't think the Labour lead has peaked.
Yes if that poll of Truss as leader is accurate then a lot of other Tory support isn't of @HYUFD level ultras.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
Looks like Meat Loaf could be the most famous anti-vaxxer yet to be felled by COVID - Though not confirmed yet:
"Meat Loaf died on the evening of January 20, 2022, at the age of 74. No cause of death has been officially announced, but the singer's manager, Michael Greene, confirmed that he was supposed to attend a business dinner earlier that week, but the dinner was cancelled because he was seriously ill with COVID-19. He was surrounded by his wife, Deborah, daughters Pearl and Amanda, and close friends. The singer had been outspoken about COVID, specifically railing against vaccine mandates in Australia and it is unknown if he was vaccinated."
It is possible to rail against vaccine mandates and still be vaccinated oneself (voluntarily). Personally, I am very pro-vaccine, rushed to get each of my three shots at the earliest possible moment, and do everything I can to persuade those around me to get vaccinated. And yet lie somewhere between ambivalent and against mandatory vaccinations (except within patient-facing healthcare and care homes where I believe mandates are not just justified by are morally required).
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
Qatar Airlines recieved pretty much all the initial A350 deliveries, and I suspect that Airbus rushed them out the door to avoid late penalties (and to prove they were shipping the A350). What I'm surprised about is that this hasn't been settled - as most aviation disputes are - quietly out of court.
I read somewhere 50% of international divorces are held in the UK.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
The incredible thing is that the Tories have fallen 10% behind Labour before the cost of living starts going up meaningfully. The known changes we have to come:
- National Insurance tax hike in April - Further gas/electricity bill increases once the price cap is lifted, also in April - Broadband and phone bills going up by close to 4% above CPI (so almost 10%) from March - Interest rates expcted to increase from close to zero to around 1% by the end of the year
The worst thing is there is nothing the government can really do about this. If wages keep up with prices then inflation becomes ingrained and rates will have to go higher still. It is the same story in the US.
Any competent government would struggle politically with all that. This one will have a really hard time having blown all its political goodwill on a few nights out.
I don't think the Labour lead has peaked.
VAT in the hospitality sector going up from 12.5% to 20% in April too. 😊 And amid an unprecedented squeeze on household incomes, the government looks like it is soon to be run by a squillionaire Thatcherite city boy. Good luck with that.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
The disgraceful events before Philip's funeral were leaving do parties and the point about them is that Boris was not there
As I have just said the danger for Boris is whether he was aware of them before or after and indeed had he been invited
Downing Street is expressing concerned over the report and is this the silver bullet
Big G, when was the last party in your house of which you knew nothing?
Are you telling me that these matters are more casually handled in Downing Street than they would be in a domestic residence in North Wales?
Please don't pull the plonker. It's not nice.
Sorry have you not read what I have said
I said this is the danger for Boris on exactly what he knew and when about these two parties and querying if this is the silver bullet
And yes my wife and I went on holiday in the 1980s , and our teenage children had a party in our house which we were not told about until years after
Johnson's evolving defence, from "I wasn't there", through "it was a work event", to "nobody told me it broke the rules" beggars belief BigG
My comments do not contradict your view and ask is this the silver bullet
It is the silver bullet that would have dispatched anyone else. Johnson is Captain Scarlet, he is indestructible.
Nobody is indestructible
I recall the Peter Hain scandal in 2008, when Hain's Deputy Leadership campaign fund failed to declare £100k of donations. Hain battled on for ten days refusing to resign before eventually falling on his sword . BBC news as I recall were relentless in their persuit. BBC R4 by contrast had more or less given up on Johnson today.
Johnson is special, and rules really don't apply
You mean the Conservative Party is special. Especially when it makes noises about Defunding the BBC.
They'll defund themselves if they cling to the license fee.
I think this is a good article explaining head in the sand approach isn't the way forward.
Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.
Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.
He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
I've duelled with Leon's many incarnations for a decade or more, and have come to feel OK with him as a literate, sometimes witty provocateur. In the early days I took him seriously, and felt as you do now, but I think it does add something to the site to have someone offering half-serious wild opinions in coherent form (unlike, say, MalcolmG, who I might be closer to politically as he's merely SNP but who just rips off a few lines of usually meaningless abuse). (Example today: "Tell the woke halfwits to take a hike an dpeddle their crap elsewhere, you call them exactly wht you want to and take mince from no man or woman" - eh?)
I have to disagree with your post Nick on just two points:
a) Much as I like Leon; Coherent?
b) I like Malcolm
And Malcolm is not "merely SNP". Or at all SNP. He is pro-independence and obsessed with turnips.
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
He can only concentrate long enough to absorb a short summary. Although I understand that his hero Churchill insisted that all memos to him were no longer than 1 page.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
The contract will be signed under UK law, this is pretty standard as companies prefer our courts for dispute resolution than European ones or the ECJ.
You'll get a hearing much more quickly, there's a much deeper pool of lawyers, and it's all in English.
More importantly, when two massive national companies are arguing with each other, the hearing and the judge will be on neutral ground.
How long until Macron threatens Airbus UK if the courts rule against Airbus? I'd guess maybe a few weeks.
Usually these things never actually get to judgement, because Airbus doesn't want to have been held to have done bad shit in a public court. (Although they may be being a bit more bold than normal because Boeing is in such deep trouble with both the new 777 and the 737Max.)
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
He can only concentrate long enough to absorb a short summary. Although I understand that his hero Churchill insisted that all memos to him were no longer than 1 page.
I think a two word phrase ending in "off" should cover it.
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
Qatar Airlines recieved pretty much all the initial A350 deliveries, and I suspect that Airbus rushed them out the door to avoid late penalties (and to prove they were shipping the A350). What I'm surprised about is that this hasn't been settled - as most aviation disputes are - quietly out of court.
I read somewhere 50% of international divorces are held in the UK.
Another sign of Boris's personal recommendation paying off for global Britain?
Boris Johnson is a terrible prime minister and a worse human being. But he is not a monster newly sprung from a rent between this world and the next.
Twenty years have passed since the Conservative party first selected him as a candidate. Michael Howard and David Cameron made him a shadow minister, and Theresa May gave him the Foreign Office. Thirty years of celebrity made him famous for his mendacity, indifference to detail, poor administration, and inveterate betrayal of every personal commitment. Yet, knowing this, the majority of Conservative MPs, and party members, still voted for him to be prime minister. He is not, therefore, an aberration, but a product of a system that will continue to produce terrible politicians long after he is gone.
FT today. Search "Britain needs a new era of serious leaders" to get round paywall
It's quite fun that the Airbus - Qatar dispute is being judged in the High Court in London.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
Qatar Airlines recieved pretty much all the initial A350 deliveries, and I suspect that Airbus rushed them out the door to avoid late penalties (and to prove they were shipping the A350). What I'm surprised about is that this hasn't been settled - as most aviation disputes are - quietly out of court.
I read somewhere 50% of international divorces are held in the UK.
Another sign of Boris's personal recommendation paying off for global Britain?
I think its more to do with how many foreigners own a property in the UK and that courts appear to provide good settlements to the divorcee / there is a belief that the courts are independent.
Comments
I forgot about Mensch as well.
Utterly bonkers, but also brilliant, and a good example of not asking creatives what they will do with your money in advance.
Btw, you refer to the poet as Thommo. Do I take it that we can no longer call him as TS because of the offence it may cause to the transexual community?
But with a whimsy.
"Groucho, Harpo, Chico and Thommo..."
Talking of Chico an Harpo.
Vandalism became a Brexit habit – hardly surprising for a project dedicated to uprooting a tangle of connections with our continental neighbours that had grown dense and thick over half a century – and this is the Brexit government. Like all revolutionary endeavours, it believes that the end justifies all means, no matter the damage to those things conservatives once cherished.
This is a different animal. Brexit transformed it from a conservative party into a national-populist party. Its instincts now are those of Viktor Orbán, funnelling public money and jobs to ideological allies, ready to burn down even the most valued institutions that stand in its way. Of course, it has contempt for the people, as all populists ultimately do. It even had contempt for the Queen on the night of her greatest grief. So let’s not pretend these faults were Johnson’s alone. Brexit is the virus. Boris Johnson was only ever its most visible carrier.
1. As we are camped out on OGH's virtual front porch, it is call of him & his duly appointed moderators whether to kick someone off of their - or rather his - perch.
2. That acknowledged, am personally adverse to banning on PB, esp. when it comes to permanent bans.
3. Also feel that virtually every PBer has at one time or another, in a moment of madness OR sanity, has posted something(s0 that could be reasonably regarded as worth of (a)ban(don)ment.
4. While NOT my favorite politico (not by a long shot) Enoch Powell did say at least one very insightful thing:
When a fervent supporter told him that he wished the House of Commons was filled with MPs like him, Powell demurred, replying (I paraphrase) that Parliament was like a regiment - it's a continuum, from the hero whose reckless courage earns (or deserves) a VC, to the hopeless slacker who is constantly AWOL when not in the brig (or glasshouse if you prefer). An organization that was all one or the other, or anywhere in between, would be bound to fail.
5. Am just woke enough to cherish diversity even when it pisses me off. Which some PBers can achieve just by showing up! And am quite certain that yours truly returns the favor!!
Have we done this? Talk of leadership challenges being permitted 6 monthly not yearly, and double letters required from 15% to 30%
Telegraph additional stuff on party is very thin as it stands
Perhaps both.
Either makes him unsuitable to be PM.
6. Please note that some distinguished (in more ways than one) PBers have made themselves familiar parts of our woodwork. With "Leon" and Malc two cases in point. Am willing to trade frequent, even habitual irritation > indignation, for their insights, perspectives AND the more-than-occasional pleasure of their company.
Plus they've said nice things about even me from time-to-time, which shows kindness of heart, if not acuity of brain!
Just when it was all calming down ... 👀
If you think the government funnelling public money to target constituencies is new, I've got a Humber Bridge to sell you.
*Yes, Brexit, not Boris
Dan Rosenfield pulls out of weekly catch-up, fuelling talk he might be moved on under PM’s reported Downing Street shake-up
I've got a Depeche Mode concert to watch at 9pm
Michaela Strachan claiming "beaver action" on Winterwatch tonight
Thirty years too late for both of us Michaela.
I humbly suggest they leak away this weekend.
That is to publish a short summary of the Gray Report.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/21/pm-facing-calls-to-ensure-all-evidence-is-published-in-no-10-parties-inquiry
Anyone who's followed the PM's modus operandi could have predicted this tactic.
There's plenty of caged beaver around too - even here in the Flatlands - but it just isn't the same.
In practice, this hasn't ruled much out.
https://youtu.be/iMoSu6e1IZ0?t=243
Not astrology's finest hour.
However, some people are much less destructible than others, and I fear that Boris falls in that category.
One would hope that someone with his track record would normally have got nowhere near as high up the greasy pole as he has.
Yet he is where he is.
That will please Mons. Macron.
Qatar Airways is claiming more than $600m in compensation from planemaker Airbus for surface flaws on A350 jetliners, according to a court document shedding new light on a growing business feud worth $4m a day.
The Gulf carrier is also asking British judges to order France-based Airbus not to attempt to deliver any more of the jets until what it describes as a design defect has been fixed.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/6/qatar-airways-seeks-more-than-600m-in-airbus-a350-dispute
The Rosenfield email says
An email, which The Telegraph has seen, read: “Give the change to Plan B restrictions as announced by the PM this week and that some of you will have made plans around today’s all SpAd meeting being virtual, we will be moving today’s meeting to next week so that we can meet in person.
“We look forward to gathering again in person at No 10 next week!”
which could just be boringly true.
Plus Hope has just tweeted the tedious wine spilled on photocopier story which was released 4 hours ago anyway. Thin stuff doesn't get thinner than this
only a gullible idiot would believe thatthe Prime Minister didn't know about these parties.- National Insurance tax hike in April
- Further gas/electricity bill increases once the price cap is lifted, also in April
- Broadband and phone bills going up by close to 4% above CPI (so almost 10%) from March
- Interest rates expcted to increase from close to zero to around 1% by the end of the year
The worst thing is there is nothing the government can really do about this. If wages keep up with prices then inflation becomes ingrained and rates will have to go higher still. It is the same story in the US.
Any competent government would struggle politically with all that. This one will have a really hard time having blown all its political goodwill on a few nights out.
I don't think the Labour lead has peaked.
Top tip: never litigate in France against a French defendant. Or anyone else actually.
Qatar Airlines recieved pretty much all the initial A350 deliveries, and I suspect that Airbus rushed them out the door to avoid late penalties (and to prove they were shipping the A350). What I'm surprised about is that this hasn't been settled - as most aviation disputes are - quietly out of court.
Johnson is special, and rules really don't apply
a) Much as I like Leon; Coherent?
b) I like Malcolm
ETA active 14 jan it says if you click that link
And amid an unprecedented squeeze on household incomes, the government looks like it is soon to be run by a squillionaire Thatcherite city boy. Good luck with that.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/jan/21/the-fightback-starts-now-heres-how-the-bbc-can-outlive-the-tories-nadine-dorries-david-attenborough
Boris Johnson is a terrible prime minister and a worse human being. But he is not a monster newly sprung from a rent between this world and the next.
Twenty years have passed since the Conservative party first selected him as a candidate. Michael Howard and David Cameron made him a shadow minister, and Theresa May gave him the Foreign Office. Thirty years of celebrity made him famous for his mendacity, indifference to detail, poor administration, and inveterate betrayal of every personal commitment. Yet, knowing this, the majority of Conservative MPs, and party members, still voted for him to be prime minister. He is not, therefore, an aberration, but a product of a system that will continue to produce terrible politicians long after he is gone.
FT today. Search "Britain needs a new era of serious leaders" to get round paywall