Johnson’s leader ratings fall to Corbyn’s GE2019 levels – politicalbetting.com

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Johnson’s leader ratings fall to Corbyn’s GE2019 levels – politicalbetting.com

The above Wikipedia tables show how the ratings collapse that Johnson has experienced is not that much different from how his foe at GE2019, then LAB leader Corbyn, was seen by voters. In fact Johnson’s lowest net rating is even worse than Corbyn’s

Read the full story here

tlg86

First.

turbotubbs

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Foxy

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

BartholomewRoberts

eek said:

RochdalePioneers said:

eek said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

RochdalePioneers said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Stereodog said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

RochdalePioneers said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

kinabalu said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Wulfrun_Phil said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

WhisperingOracle said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Malmesbury said:

Alistair said:

I honestly don't know what is misconstrued about "There's no such thing as society" interview.

Shes whinging about people skiving on the dole, her meaning is pretty clear.

If you read the speech, she was talking about a variant of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect, where people think that "This problem is going to be fixed by Society*, not me".

*As in some remote, amorphous organisation that exists completely separately from the population at large.

That is what some people on the left want though it seems. A perfect example is food banks.

In the Labour days food banks etc were heavily restricted and what wasn't very restricted was legalised loan sharks like Wonga etc

David Cameron reversed that. The restrictions on food banks were lifted and restrictions were put on for the loan sharks.

As a result the loan sharks went out of business and the food banks have thrived. Instead of celebrating that, the left bemoans the rise of food banks instead of celebrating them as a success of people donating what they can spare to help others rather than forcing others to go to loan sharks instead as they had to under Blair and Brown.

This is complete nonsense. Foodbank demand exploded in 2014-15, immediately after the first round of welfare cuts

You're looking at it completely backwards

Food bank demand is limited by food bank supply. The demand for free food is essentially infinite, what is not infinite is generosity and people choosing to give.

Also 2015 is when Wonga started losing instead of making money.

So yes the two are intrinsically linked. The regulations on food banks were eased and thus people started giving to them more, so people started demanding from them more, which is a virtuous rather than vicious circle.

The regulations on Wonga etc were tightened, so the likes of Wonga weren't the free cash making machines preying on the vulnerable that they were under Brown.

You should be celebrating 2014/15 seeing food banks replace Wonga not bemoaning it.

Celebrating widespread reliance on foodbanks?

Orwellian right wing Doublespeak.

No, celebrating widespread availability of foodbanks.

People will always run into hard times. When they do it is better to have foodbanks than Wonga, theft or starvation.

So your policy objective is food banks all over the place but nobody using them?

Basic economics says the demand for free is infinite. There will always be demand.

But yes food banks all over the place is fantastic. The more the merrier, let people give what they can afford to give so that those in need can get from those who have something to spare.

What is bad about that in your eyes?

You've never been to a food bank. Or spoken to people who use food banks. Or the people who run food banks.

Demand is not infinite. The profound shame that so many users feel having to resort to using them means that demand is far from infinite.

Nor is having a lot of food banks in your area something to celebrate. They are a physical demonstration of a society that has gone very wrong, especially with so many people with jobs still having to shame themselves using them as their wages do not pay the bills.

Is a food bank better than a loan shark? Yes. In the same way that losing your leg below the knee is better than losing it below the hip. In no way is people having to beg for charity to survive "fantastic".

Oh cut the sanctimonious claptrap. If I wanted to listen to that, I'd be religious and go to Chruch.

People have always run into hard times. People will always run into hard times. That's not "society gone very wrong" that is real life.

Yes people may be regretful, but that is no different whatsoever to people being ashamed to sign on for welfare benefits. Either way it is better that the supply is there than it isn't.

That people are willing to donate to those less fortunate than them isn't society gone wrong, its society gone right and something to celebrate.

Unless you can point to me a time when food banks were getting inundated with donations that were going to landfill as they had nobody to give the donations to, because everybody was fine and dandy, nobody hand trouble, nobody was getting into debt etc then yes supply always has been and always will be the limiting factor.

Absolute rubbish. Food banks have a requirement for people to access them just like the benefits system. If more people fall into it then by definition then things are going worse. That is unless you can demonstrate that food banks are relaxing their criteria for help to encompass more people?

Yes they have relaxed the criteria to encompass more people. Those reforms happened in the Coalition government. That is the point!

Plus awareness of them increased so people started going to them instead of Wonga.

But as mentioned, the main reform happened in 2010. Suddenly job centres were actually sending people direct to foodbanks. The absolute explosion in use happened a few years later, when this route was also already altered and slightly restricted.

Yes because the supply wasn't there to meet the demand in 2010. 🤦‍♂️

Demand is infinite, supply isn't. So when the liberalisation in the rules happened, it took time to build the supply capacity. It is to the credit of the British public that they responded by being generous and meeting the demand that was always there.

Almost none of this is true in this particular case, but I know that whatever I post will make little difference to your view.

What evidence do you have it isn't true? You haven't provided any evidence whatsoever. Do you have evidence of food banks sending mounds of food to landfill due to an absence of demand in 2011?

The onus one me isn't to prove a lack of demand in 2011 ; the onus is on you to prove that your abstracted concept of infinite demand has anything immediately relevant or helpful with the debate. There were clear new drivers of demand in 2013-2015, in a period of significant welfare cuts, and which period also coincided with rises in homelessness and several other social indicators.

To me it seems that you're trying to bend reality towards an ideology.

Its always daft straw man arguments and daft emojis from him.

His core supposition is that food banks are fantastic and demand for free food is infinite. As neither is true you can just ignore the straw man points and move on.

Why pre-food banks were Britons needing to borrow billions from the likes of Wonga that went out of business when food banks displaced them?

Can you actually answer the point or are you just going to daftly pretend everything was fine and dandy pre-2014 and nobody ever had money issues prior to food banks replacing Wonga.com?

Wonga didn't go out of business because Food Banks arrived.

Wonga went out of business because their business model was destroyed when the FCA discovered they had been naughty and should never have lent money to a vast amount of their customer base.

There was also this time when we hadn't debased ourselves as a society to try and pretend that "wonga" and "foodbank" are the only options to avoid poor people starving.

I'm ignoring that as it conflates 2 different issues.

Wonga was closed down because it's business practices were found to be illegal.

There is no correlation nor causation between Wonga disappearing and Food banks appearing. The fact that someone sees correlation and causation demonstrates that some people see things that don't exist because it's matches their simplistic / simplified version of the real world.

There is one. The entire payday loan industry had a 27% fall in demand in the same year that food bank usage went up.

If food bank usage went up because people were more desperate, then why did payday loan usage go down in the very same year?

People like to pretend that the demand for free food in 2014 was spontaneous and came from nowhere, but the reality is people were desperate before then. Simply prior to then, the supply wasn't there to meet it so they were turning to 5000% APR predators instead.

TheScreamingEagles

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

BartholomewRoberts

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

FrancisUrquhart

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

TheScreamingEagles

Other similarity between Johnson and Corbyn, both married thrice.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

MattW

FPT:

Dura_Ace said:

AlistairM said:

I read this tweet and my immediate thought was why they were only using an 8-bit system (apologies to non-geeks).

British Army's new Apache helicopters that can detect 256 potential targets at once and prioritise threats in a matter of seconds are undergoing test flights at Wattisham Flying Station. With a top speed of 186mph, the new fleet can detect targets up to a range of 10 miles
https://twitter.com/jjgiddens/status/1484494710043512835

As an aside last Summer we went for a break staying close to that base. Every day we had at least one flypass from Apache helicopters.

It can only engage 16 targets so it's probably pointless acquiring more than 256. And in a situation where there are over 200 targets the crew are going to be dead soon enough anyway.

The tories have just scrapped 16 Apaches.

Context might help here. 2015 is pushing the envelope of "just".

Ordered 66-7 of the old "D" model in the 1990s, delivered around 2004 aiui.

16 'mothballed' around 2015, which eventually means spares or withdrawn. Triggered I think to match what the US was doing to their fleet.

£1.8-2bn give or take spent on upgrading the other 50 to the latest model, with a 20 year lifespan from now.

PS Why is Meatloaf the same shape as Boris? I really can't adjudicate on the hairdos.

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

I see Pagel still hasn't got the memo. Apparently its still too risky to consider getting rid of restrictions.

Scott_xP

TheScreamingEagles said:

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

When BoZo gets kicked out of No 10 I expect him to resign as an MP anyway

Razedabode

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

Onwards we march to glorious defeat

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

Err - Corbyn is not a member of the labour party

Theuniondivvie

Fpt kudos to those having they were going to die anyway, nothing wrong with a bevvy at work while telling everyone else it’s forbidden and food banks are great as the foundation stones of a personal credo.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre; c'est de la folie

Theuniondivvie

Wtf indeed. Great product placement for the Tele and tools though.

https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1484485508743012354?s=20

BartholomewRoberts

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

eek

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

Jeremy Corbyn isn't a Labour MP - and it's not easy to see if he is a member of the Labour Party at the moment but I suspect he isn't

turbotubbs

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

I see Pagel still hasn't got the memo. Apparently its still too risky to consider getting rid of restrictions.

Save yourself the pain and don't look at her twitter sh8t. She and her acolytes live in a different world. Perhaps its like pokemon? Through their eyes they see bodies on the streets being cleared to the plague pits in barrows, while small children shamble the streets with long covid wracking their pitiful frames. if only more people never the house for 700 days* we'd all be safe.

*Apart from going to the Cumbrian holiday home of course.

Edit - Not in Barrow, but in barrows... Although it fits with Cumbria.

boulay

MattW said:

FPT:

Dura_Ace said:

AlistairM said:

I read this tweet and my immediate thought was why they were only using an 8-bit system (apologies to non-geeks).

British Army's new Apache helicopters that can detect 256 potential targets at once and prioritise threats in a matter of seconds are undergoing test flights at Wattisham Flying Station. With a top speed of 186mph, the new fleet can detect targets up to a range of 10 miles
https://twitter.com/jjgiddens/status/1484494710043512835

As an aside last Summer we went for a break staying close to that base. Every day we had at least one flypass from Apache helicopters.

It can only engage 16 targets so it's probably pointless acquiring more than 256. And in a situation where there are over 200 targets the crew are going to be dead soon enough anyway.

The tories have just scrapped 16 Apaches.

Context might help here. 2015 is pushing the envelope of "just".

Ordered 66-7 of the old "D" model in the 1990s, delivered around 2004 aiui.

16 'mothballed' around 2015, which eventually means spares or withdrawn

£1.8-2bn give or take spent on upgrading the other 50 to the latest model, with a 20 year lifespan from now.

PS Why is Meatloaf the same shape as Boris? I really can't adjudicate on the hairdos.

I’ve always wondered if Apaches are a viable alternative to tanks or if you really ideally need both?

Surely tanks, whilst having a certain role, are going to become obsolete as not very flexible and inevitably weapons systems improve to defeat them. Whilst the same is true about Apaches their extra flexibility and the fact that you can whiz them in and out of battle zones without them being sitting targets for air attack makes them more useful?

I have no idea if it would be better to forget tanks and spend on more apaches but maybe someone here does?

Foxy

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

MoonRabbit

‘ We all know what happened to Corbyn’s Labour when he was perceived so negatively. “

I think the problem is with that last sentence, because none of the polls suggest Starmer’s socialist Party currently in line for an 80 seat majority?

The problem here is Boris, not party v party. For example despite both Boris collapse as highlighted and the Tories around 9 down now, how far ahead are Labour on managing the economy? Beyond Trust/lying voters don’t seem keen to pressure Boris on lack of delivery. And this ties in to where Boris passionately reeled off the lengthy list of successes of his first two years in office at PMQs, in a moment that seems to have turned things around for him.

BartholomewRoberts

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

You are delusional and have lost all sense of perspective if you think that Boris is going to have a less dignified exit than the man who lost a VONC and two General Elections [while acting like he won one of them], or a man who lost an election, claimed he won it, then attempted an armed insurrection and coup to maintain power.

Though Corbyn as the British Trump did share a pretence and delusion that he won an election that he really lost with the manbaby across the Pond. Boris has no such thing.

Scott_xP

Boris Johnson's spokesman repeatedly describes the civil servant Sue Gray's investigation into the actions of the government and civil service she works for "independent” but is repeatedly unable to explain why he is calling it that.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1484501376508076033

RobD

eek said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

Jeremy Corbyn isn't a Labour MP - and it's not easy to see if he is a member of the Labour Party at the moment but I suspect he isn't

His supporters were claiming he was a member but not part of the PLP a day or so ago after the defection. Wiki also suggests he is a member.

Unpopular

eek said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

Jeremy Corbyn isn't a Labour MP - and it's not easy to see if he is a member of the Labour Party at the moment but I suspect he isn't

My understanding was that he is not a Labour MP, but is still a Labour Member, ala Ken Clarke following rebellion. I believe there is some question (political or legal, not sure) around the Leader involving themselves in the membership process. Particularly for Starmer, who has made much of trying to make the Labour process around the expulsion of members be at arms-length, it would be difficult politically for him to involve himself. Where his authority is clear, he has removed Corbyn.

TheScreamingEagles

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

MISTY

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

In some senses Corbyn was disarmingly honest. He made no bones about the fact he wanted the shirt off the back of every middle class tory out there. Had he been elected, he would have done what it said on the tin.

I kind of respected him for that.

RobD

Scott_xP said:

Boris Johnson's spokesman repeatedly describes the civil servant Sue Gray's investigation into the actions of the government and civil service she works for "independent” but is repeatedly unable to explain why he is calling it that.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1484501376508076033

People think there's some conspiracy about the way it is being referred to as "independent"? Surely he just means it is independent of No 10?

FrancisUrquhart

MISTY said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

In some senses Corbyn was disarmingly honest. He made no bones about the fact he wanted the shirt off the back of every middle class tory out there. Had he been elected, he would have done what it said on the tin.

I kind of respected him for that.

Also he was never a two letter kind of guy. He hasn't changed his mind on anything in over 40 years.

Unpopular

TheScreamingEagles said:

Other similarity between Johnson and Corbyn, both married thrice.

Thrice so far!

HYUFD

eek said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

Will Johnson's successor kick Boris Johnson out of the Tory Party?

Would be nice to expel the sleazy. disgusting, liar out of the Tory Party.

Remove the whip for starters for his defence of the bully Priti Pratel.

Given at least 40% of Tory MPs will still vote for Boris even if he loses a VONC no, it would be a recipe for civil war in the party.

Even Starmer has not dared expel Corbyn despite the fact he lost the 2019 general election to Johnson by a landslide and only 40 Labour MPs ever voted for him

Jeremy Corbyn isn't a Labour MP - and it's not easy to see if he is a member of the Labour Party at the moment but I suspect he isn't

Corbyn has not been expelled, merely temporarily suspended. McDonnell, Abbott etc all Labour MPs still

eek

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Is he really that completely and utterly deluded?

No need to answer that question as I think we all know the answer...

Dura_Ace

boulay said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Dura_Ace said:

AlistairM said:

I read this tweet and my immediate thought was why they were only using an 8-bit system (apologies to non-geeks).

British Army's new Apache helicopters that can detect 256 potential targets at once and prioritise threats in a matter of seconds are undergoing test flights at Wattisham Flying Station. With a top speed of 186mph, the new fleet can detect targets up to a range of 10 miles
https://twitter.com/jjgiddens/status/1484494710043512835

As an aside last Summer we went for a break staying close to that base. Every day we had at least one flypass from Apache helicopters.

It can only engage 16 targets so it's probably pointless acquiring more than 256. And in a situation where there are over 200 targets the crew are going to be dead soon enough anyway.

The tories have just scrapped 16 Apaches.

Context might help here. 2015 is pushing the envelope of "just".

Ordered 66-7 of the old "D" model in the 1990s, delivered around 2004 aiui.

16 'mothballed' around 2015, which eventually means spares or withdrawn

£1.8-2bn give or take spent on upgrading the other 50 to the latest model, with a 20 year lifespan from now.

PS Why is Meatloaf the same shape as Boris? I really can't adjudicate on the hairdos.

I’ve always wondered if Apaches are a viable alternative to tanks or if you really ideally need both?

Surely tanks, whilst having a certain role, are going to become obsolete as not very flexible and inevitably weapons systems improve to defeat them. Whilst the same is true about Apaches their extra flexibility and the fact that you can whiz them in and out of battle zones without them being sitting targets for air attack makes them more useful?

I have no idea if it would be better to forget tanks and spend on more apaches but maybe someone here does?

An AH-64 has nothing like the persistence or firepower of an MBT.

MBTs are falling slightly out of favour and being replaced for some missions by various mobile precision fire systems by more progressive armed forces (USMC, IDF) but not by attack helicopters.

LostPassword

boulay said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Dura_Ace said:

AlistairM said:

I read this tweet and my immediate thought was why they were only using an 8-bit system (apologies to non-geeks).

British Army's new Apache helicopters that can detect 256 potential targets at once and prioritise threats in a matter of seconds are undergoing test flights at Wattisham Flying Station. With a top speed of 186mph, the new fleet can detect targets up to a range of 10 miles
https://twitter.com/jjgiddens/status/1484494710043512835

As an aside last Summer we went for a break staying close to that base. Every day we had at least one flypass from Apache helicopters.

It can only engage 16 targets so it's probably pointless acquiring more than 256. And in a situation where there are over 200 targets the crew are going to be dead soon enough anyway.

The tories have just scrapped 16 Apaches.

Context might help here. 2015 is pushing the envelope of "just".

Ordered 66-7 of the old "D" model in the 1990s, delivered around 2004 aiui.

16 'mothballed' around 2015, which eventually means spares or withdrawn

£1.8-2bn give or take spent on upgrading the other 50 to the latest model, with a 20 year lifespan from now.

PS Why is Meatloaf the same shape as Boris? I really can't adjudicate on the hairdos.

I’ve always wondered if Apaches are a viable alternative to tanks or if you really ideally need both?

Surely tanks, whilst having a certain role, are going to become obsolete as not very flexible and inevitably weapons systems improve to defeat them. Whilst the same is true about Apaches their extra flexibility and the fact that you can whiz them in and out of battle zones without them being sitting targets for air attack makes them more useful?

I have no idea if it would be better to forget tanks and spend on more apaches but maybe someone here does?

All countries are disposing of large numbers of tanks. It's possible that they are now simply an attractive target for drones.

It could be that drones, and further improvements to missiles, make new ways of fighting possible that make Apaches relatively obsolete too. The 80s were a long time ago.

kamski

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

I see that you didn't provide any source for your claim that UK has had considerably higher net migration than Germany for many years, on the previous thread. Maybe you just made it up?

According to the OECD 16.1% of Germany's 2019 population was foreign-born, compared with 13.7% for the UK in 2018

https://data.oecd.org/migration/foreign-born-population.htm

As for including people who are in the process of making an asylum claim in the homeless figures, yes I think it is misleading. Those people are by definition in "temporary accommodation". It would be like including people in quarantine hotels in the homeless figures.

Whether Germany has a worse homeless problem than the UK I have no idea, I would guess it's probably not that dissimilar, depending on definitions.

Dura_Ace

Sergei Lavrov looks like an English pub landlord.

boulay

LostPassword said:

boulay said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Dura_Ace said:

AlistairM said:

I read this tweet and my immediate thought was why they were only using an 8-bit system (apologies to non-geeks).

British Army's new Apache helicopters that can detect 256 potential targets at once and prioritise threats in a matter of seconds are undergoing test flights at Wattisham Flying Station. With a top speed of 186mph, the new fleet can detect targets up to a range of 10 miles
https://twitter.com/jjgiddens/status/1484494710043512835

As an aside last Summer we went for a break staying close to that base. Every day we had at least one flypass from Apache helicopters.

It can only engage 16 targets so it's probably pointless acquiring more than 256. And in a situation where there are over 200 targets the crew are going to be dead soon enough anyway.

The tories have just scrapped 16 Apaches.

Context might help here. 2015 is pushing the envelope of "just".

Ordered 66-7 of the old "D" model in the 1990s, delivered around 2004 aiui.

16 'mothballed' around 2015, which eventually means spares or withdrawn

£1.8-2bn give or take spent on upgrading the other 50 to the latest model, with a 20 year lifespan from now.

PS Why is Meatloaf the same shape as Boris? I really can't adjudicate on the hairdos.

I’ve always wondered if Apaches are a viable alternative to tanks or if you really ideally need both?

Surely tanks, whilst having a certain role, are going to become obsolete as not very flexible and inevitably weapons systems improve to defeat them. Whilst the same is true about Apaches their extra flexibility and the fact that you can whiz them in and out of battle zones without them being sitting targets for air attack makes them more useful?

I have no idea if it would be better to forget tanks and spend on more apaches but maybe someone here does?

All countries are disposing of large numbers of tanks. It's possible that they are now simply an attractive target for drones.

It could be that drones, and further improvements to missiles, make new ways of fighting possible that make Apaches relatively obsolete too. The 80s were a long time ago.

Thanks to you and Dura for the replies. So I’m hoping that the MOD are stopping spending money on tanks and apaches and focussing on drones….. or is that hoping for too much that they can look at the next wars!

MoonRabbit

Leon said:

Greetings from Colombo, Sri Lanka

Talking of exotic locations: 67,000 cases in Belgium

A huge leap to a new record. Rumours out of Belgium suggest they might have Omicron OMG, the new mad BA2 variant

Colombo?

Now the Mac references make sense.

World War 3s about to break out in Europe, what are you doing on the other side of the world? 😯

FrancisUrquhart

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Theuniondivvie

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

FrancisUrquhart

MoonRabbit said:

Leon said:

Greetings from Colombo, Sri Lanka

Talking of exotic locations: 67,000 cases in Belgium

A huge leap to a new record. Rumours out of Belgium suggest they might have Omicron OMG, the new mad BA2 variant

Colombo?

Now the Mac references make sense.

World War 3s about to break out in Europe, what are you doing on the other side of the world? 😯

When they get a massive COVID spike there in a couple of weeks we will know who to blame.

Polruan

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

I suggested the other day that his level of delusion about his destiny is such that he'd sit on the backbenches waiting for the day when the world needs its king back. He'd be a complete nightmare for whoever loses GE24 for the Tories, managing to convince a loyal band of followers that he was unfairly removed as leader, was still a proven winner, and the only chance they had of removing PM Starmer in GE29.

Gary_Burton

Good results for Labour in Loughborough:

Loughborough Shelthorpe, Charnwood
Labour HOLD both seats

Labour: 50.0% (+15.9)
Tory: 22.1% (-0.9)
Ind: 10.6% (+10.6)
LibDem: 9.7% (+0.1)
Green: 7.7% (-6.9)

No UKIP (-13.4), British Democrat (-5.3)

Total votes: 1408
Changes with 2019

The Tories won one seat in this ward in 2015.

tlg86

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Ooh, did anyone have him in the deadpool?

FrancisUrquhart

Self-isolation rules will remain in place for everyone who tests positive for Covid in Wales, the country's first minister has confirmed. The self-isolation period for anyone who develops symptoms or tests positive for Covid in Wales is seven full days, whereas in England, and Northern Ireland, from Friday, it is five days.

Drakeford also says face-covering rules in most public indoor places will remain in place.

MoonRabbit

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

MJW

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

Indeed. The problem with this is Churchill was always a man of substance - even when he got things badly wrong. So eventually, when the hour came and he was right while others were muddling - was what was needed. As Boris showed when writing a biography of his 'hero' whose facts were often wrong or cribbed from a Ladybird book, he really isn't and has more of a surface intellect - great fun at parties (ho ho), no doubt, and able to hold court on anything. But has never deeply thought about issues in a way that gets a full grasp on them - which substantial politicians do, even when you think they come to wrong conclusions.

BartholomewRoberts

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

Dura_Ace

boulay said:

LostPassword said:

boulay said:

MattW said:

FPT:

Dura_Ace said:

AlistairM said:

I read this tweet and my immediate thought was why they were only using an 8-bit system (apologies to non-geeks).

British Army's new Apache helicopters that can detect 256 potential targets at once and prioritise threats in a matter of seconds are undergoing test flights at Wattisham Flying Station. With a top speed of 186mph, the new fleet can detect targets up to a range of 10 miles
https://twitter.com/jjgiddens/status/1484494710043512835

As an aside last Summer we went for a break staying close to that base. Every day we had at least one flypass from Apache helicopters.

It can only engage 16 targets so it's probably pointless acquiring more than 256. And in a situation where there are over 200 targets the crew are going to be dead soon enough anyway.

The tories have just scrapped 16 Apaches.

Context might help here. 2015 is pushing the envelope of "just".

Ordered 66-7 of the old "D" model in the 1990s, delivered around 2004 aiui.

16 'mothballed' around 2015, which eventually means spares or withdrawn

£1.8-2bn give or take spent on upgrading the other 50 to the latest model, with a 20 year lifespan from now.

PS Why is Meatloaf the same shape as Boris? I really can't adjudicate on the hairdos.

I’ve always wondered if Apaches are a viable alternative to tanks or if you really ideally need both?

Surely tanks, whilst having a certain role, are going to become obsolete as not very flexible and inevitably weapons systems improve to defeat them. Whilst the same is true about Apaches their extra flexibility and the fact that you can whiz them in and out of battle zones without them being sitting targets for air attack makes them more useful?

I have no idea if it would be better to forget tanks and spend on more apaches but maybe someone here does?

All countries are disposing of large numbers of tanks. It's possible that they are now simply an attractive target for drones.

It could be that drones, and further improvements to missiles, make new ways of fighting possible that make Apaches relatively obsolete too. The 80s were a long time ago.

Thanks to you and Dura for the replies. So I’m hoping that the MOD are stopping spending money on tanks and apaches and focussing on drones….. or is that hoping for too much that they can look at the next wars!

The MoD owns 16 golf courses and somehow finds it absolutely necessary to operate a squadron of 8 WW2 fighters. Their priorities are somewhat diffuse...

They are getting in the MALE UAS game with a MQ-9B fleet jointly operated with Belgium but that's a few years off.

The indigenous UAS programs (LANCA, Vixen) are just at the speculative pointless job creation for local political advantage stage and may remain ever thus.

TheScreamingEagles

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

FrancisUrquhart

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

Well, it is being reported that he has been ranting about vaccine mandates. Now that doesn't mean he was anti-vaxxer, but in the US the venn diagram of the two show a massive overlap.

Eabhal

FPT I looked at food banks in detail a few years back and couldn't find any correlations between their growth, general deprivation, unemployment, transition to UC, homelessness etc.

This doesn't mean to say they haven't been needed - you'll find that the families use the saved cash to heat their homes, or buy clothes for their kids. The food provided in the them is often of a high quality (particularly during the pandemic, where furloughed chefs have been cooking in church halls) which is great news for kids nutrition.

Theuniondivvie

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

MoonRabbit said:

Leon said:

Greetings from Colombo, Sri Lanka

Talking of exotic locations: 67,000 cases in Belgium

A huge leap to a new record. Rumours out of Belgium suggest they might have Omicron OMG, the new mad BA2 variant

Colombo?

Now the Mac references make sense.

World War 3s about to break out in Europe, what are you doing on the other side of the world? 😯

When they get a massive COVID spike there in a couple of weeks we will know who to blame.

Or a massive outbreak of the clap.

Richard_Tyndall

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

boulay

.

MJW said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

Indeed. The problem with this is Churchill was always a man of substance - even when he got things badly wrong. So eventually, when the hour came and he was right while others were muddling - was what was needed. As Boris showed when writing a biography of his 'hero' whose facts were often wrong or cribbed from a Ladybird book, he really isn't and has more of a surface intellect - great fun at parties (ho ho), no doubt, and able to hold court on anything. But has never deeply thought about issues in a way that gets a full grasp on them - which substantial politicians do, even when you think they come to wrong conclusions.

Is Boris another one who is covered by the quote about Stephen Fry where he is “a stupid person’s idea of a clever person”?

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Dura_Ace

tlg86 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Ooh, did anyone have him in the deadpool?

Nope. Although Bat Out of Hell is a great covid theme tune given its origin.

I reckon Johnson is going to get it again and cark it handing a dramatic victory to paristonda.

That would be #classicboris

JosiasJessop

Theuniondivvie said:

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

You can accuse Churchill of many things, but personal cowardice is not one of them. If anything, the opposite applies: he was stupidly reckless at times (being on the roof whilst bombs were falling; the Sidney Street siege).

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

BartholomewRoberts

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

Leon

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

Morris_Dancer

Through the imbecile overboard, PCP!

TheScreamingEagles

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

You're talking even more shite than the times you said Owen Paterson had no appellate process.

HYUFD

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

I suggested the other day that his level of delusion about his destiny is such that he'd sit on the backbenches waiting for the day when the world needs its king back. He'd be a complete nightmare for whoever loses GE24 for the Tories, managing to convince a loyal band of followers that he was unfairly removed as leader, was still a proven winner, and the only chance they had of removing PM Starmer in GE29.

Indeed. If Sunak replaces Boris as PM now and loses the next general election to Starmer, then if Boris is still an MP he could run for Leader of the Opposition. If Starmer loses popularity like Biden has, Boris could prepare to challenge PM Starmer at the next election as Trump is preparing to challenge President Biden again at the next US election.

Remember too Berlusconi won, lost, won, lost again several times in Italy

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

The level of anti-vaxxer nonsense in the US is mind boggling. Still only 25% boostered.

MoonRabbit

JosiasJessop said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

You can accuse Churchill of many things, but personal cowardice is not one of them. If anything, the opposite applies: he was stupidly reckless at times (being on the roof whilst bombs were falling; the Sidney Street siege).

Thank you both. Yes.

TheScreamingEagles

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

BartholomewRoberts

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

You're talking even more shite than the times you said Owen Paterson had no appellate process.

As far as I remember I said there should be an appellate process. IANAL and never to the best of my knowledge said there wasn't one, others said there wasn't one and I took them at their word they were telling the truth.

But you really think its "shite" that people have immigrated to the UK with no more (or not much more) than their clothes on their back and started a new life here? If so, you don't know very many people.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

The level of anti-vaxxer nonsense in the US is mind boggling. Still only 25% boostered.

I've flagged up a few times just how partisan divide the antivax stuff in America is.

I'm so glad we don't have that here in the UK.

Leon

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

Either is good. PayPal?

TheScreamingEagles

BartholomewRoberts said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

You're talking even more shite than the times you said Owen Paterson had no appellate process.

As far as I remember I said there should be an appellate process. IANAL and never to the best of my knowledge said there wasn't one, others said there wasn't one and I took them at their word they were telling the truth.

But you really think its "shite" that people have immigrated to the UK with no more (or not much more) than their clothes on their back and started a new life here? If so, you don't know very many people.

You freely admitted not having read the report but pushed your own narrative against people like myself and Northern Al who had read the report and told you it clearly stated all the times Paterson had exercised the appellate process.

RochdalePioneers

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

What makes me laugh about your posts is your absurd absolutism. Where did Richard say suggest or imply that "everyone" arriving from elsewhere had loads of money on arrival? Some arrived here to do actual jobs with contracts. Others arrived to beg. It is neither everyone nor no-one.

Sandpit

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

The level of anti-vaxxer nonsense in the US is mind boggling. Still only 25% boostered.

Original vaccine take up of two doses around 63%, so still a hundred million Americans with about as much protection as a bareback @SeanT in a Bangkok brothel.

glw

TheScreamingEagles said:

I've flagged up a few times just how partisan divide the antivax stuff in America is.

I'm so glad we don't have that here in the UK.

The CRG have been against all lot of the NPIs, but at least they aren't anti-vaxxers as such, although I see they are a bit against some of the mandates. On the whole politicians in the UK have been very much pro vaccine.

AlistairM

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

Meatloaf was a genuine superstar. If he died of Covid because he was unvaccinated then I hope what happened to him will give a nudge to those who still have not been vaccinated.

TheScreamingEagles

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

Either is good. PayPal?

We shall pay you in Dutch Tulips.

Leon

Dura_Ace said:

tlg86 said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Ooh, did anyone have him in the deadpool?

Nope. Although Bat Out of Hell is a great covid theme tune given its origin.

I reckon Johnson is going to get it again and cark it handing a dramatic victory to paristonda.

That would be #classicboris

Something of a failure in PB as a forecasting website if it didn’t have a fat guy literally called ‘Meat Loaf’ in its roster of potential imminent stiffs

BartholomewRoberts

RochdalePioneers said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

What makes me laugh about your posts is your absurd absolutism. Where did Richard say suggest or imply that "everyone" arriving from elsewhere had loads of money on arrival? Some arrived here to do actual jobs with contracts. Others arrived to beg. It is neither everyone nor no-one.

"The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. "

There was no visa pre-screening to check that the millions who came here had the money to pay for accommodation before they arrived.

That it is neither everyone nor no-one verifies what I was saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.

northern_monkey

Theuniondivvie said:

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

Churchill, the self-described “Escaped Scapegoat,” joined the army in November 1915 as a Major in the Queen’s Own Oxfordshire Hussars and trained in the front lines for several weeks with the Guards Division. There was discussion of him getting command of a brigade as a Brigadier-General, but this fell through when vetoed by Prime Minister H.H Asquith, Churchill’s former political chief. Instead, Churchill became Lt. Colonel commanding the 6th (Service) Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers (RSF), part of the 9th (Scottish) Division, in January 1916. The 6th was a Kitchener New Army unit sent to France in May 1915, and was recovering from the September 1915 Battle of Loos.

Churchill and the 6th RSF served in the trenches of Ploegsteert (“Plugstreet” as British tommies called it), part of the Belgian salient of Ypres, a city now known in Flemish as Ieper but fixed in tommy-talk as “Wipers.” As battalion commander he performed well, winning over dubious junior officers and enlisted men. He survived many close calls, and while on leave also engaged in politics. But he soon realized he had little prospect for promotion. In May 1916 the 6th, unable to replenish its losses, was amalgamated with another battalion. Thus Churchill had an opportunity to leave the army and honorably return to the political home front, where the Asquith government was under fire. (Churchill duly helped stoke the flames.)

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/churchill-trenches-peter-apps/

I did read somewhere why he went with the French helmet but for the life of me can't remember why!

MoonRabbit

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

Like, a Canary in a Foreign Sun lounger!

FrancisUrquhart

glw said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I've flagged up a few times just how partisan divide the antivax stuff in America is.

I'm so glad we don't have that here in the UK.

The CRG have been against all lot of the NPIs, but at least they aren't anti-vaxxers as such, although I see they are a bit against some of the mandates. On the whole politicians in the UK have been very much pro vaccine.

There are legitimate arguments against things like vaccine passports i.e. they don't bloody work with something like Omicron about....and I can understand parts of the US with their FREEEEDDDDOMMMM mentality, where they instinctively don't like big government telling them what to do.

BUT, they have something they can do which for a few minutes of their time will for the vast vast majority save them from getting serious ill, but in the name of whatever bullshit they believe, they won't get it.

Selebian

MoonRabbit said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

Like, a Canary in a Foreign Sun lounger!

As long as there's no budgie smuggling going on (or, at least, we're spared pictures) then I'm fine with that!

Theuniondivvie

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

Either is good. PayPal?

Yebbut would the slack be taken up by UFOs and stachoos?

If so am oot.

MoonRabbit

northern_monkey said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

Churchill, the self-described “Escaped Scapegoat,” joined the army in November 1915 as a Major in the Queen’s Own Oxfordshire Hussars and trained in the front lines for several weeks with the Guards Division. There was discussion of him getting command of a brigade as a Brigadier-General, but this fell through when vetoed by Prime Minister H.H Asquith, Churchill’s former political chief. Instead, Churchill became Lt. Colonel commanding the 6th (Service) Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers (RSF), part of the 9th (Scottish) Division, in January 1916. The 6th was a Kitchener New Army unit sent to France in May 1915, and was recovering from the September 1915 Battle of Loos.

Churchill and the 6th RSF served in the trenches of Ploegsteert (“Plugstreet” as British tommies called it), part of the Belgian salient of Ypres, a city now known in Flemish as Ieper but fixed in tommy-talk as “Wipers.” As battalion commander he performed well, winning over dubious junior officers and enlisted men. He survived many close calls, and while on leave also engaged in politics. But he soon realized he had little prospect for promotion. In May 1916 the 6th, unable to replenish its losses, was amalgamated with another battalion. Thus Churchill had an opportunity to leave the army and honorably return to the political home front, where the Asquith government was under fire. (Churchill duly helped stoke the flames.)

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/churchill-trenches-peter-apps/

I did read somewhere why he went with the French helmet but for the life of me can't remember why!

I suppose having your lucky helmet on is the same as having your lucky nickers on.

TheScreamingEagles

glw said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I've flagged up a few times just how partisan divide the antivax stuff in America is.

I'm so glad we don't have that here in the UK.

The CRG have been against all lot of the NPIs, but at least they aren't anti-vaxxers as such, although I see they are a bit against some of the mandates. On the whole politicians in the UK have been very much pro vaccine.

I'm glad that the Covid denialism/minimalism in this country has largely been left to pricks like Laurence Fox and Piers Corbyn.

kamski

HYUFD said:

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

I suggested the other day that his level of delusion about his destiny is such that he'd sit on the backbenches waiting for the day when the world needs its king back. He'd be a complete nightmare for whoever loses GE24 for the Tories, managing to convince a loyal band of followers that he was unfairly removed as leader, was still a proven winner, and the only chance they had of removing PM Starmer in GE29.

Indeed. If Sunak replaces Boris as PM now and loses the next general election to Starmer, then if Boris is still an MP he could run for Leader of the Opposition. If Starmer loses popularity like Biden has, Boris could prepare to challenge PM Starmer at the next election as Trump is preparing to challenge President Biden again at the next US election.

Remember too Berlusconi won, lost, won, lost again several times in Italy

It's possible, but unlikely. Berlusconi had (in fact still has) his own personal political party as a powerbase, Trump has turned the Republican Party almost into a personality cult. Johnson doesn't really have any allies, only people willing to support him because they thought he would win an election. Both Berlusconi and Trump are billionaires, and both had/have pressing legal reasons to gain political power. Once Johnson is out, he will most likely go back to making money by being a professional liar for the Telegraph or whoever wants him.

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

Either is good. PayPal?

We shall pay you in Dutch Tulips.

Otherwise known as Bitcoin...going very cheap today.

FrancisUrquhart

AlistairM said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

Meatloaf was a genuine superstar. If he died of Covid because he was unvaccinated then I hope what happened to him will give a nudge to those who still have not been vaccinated.

Nothing seems to shift the view of many anti-vaxxer Americans.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlistairM said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

Meatloaf was a genuine superstar. If he died of Covid because he was unvaccinated then I hope what happened to him will give a nudge to those who still have not been vaccinated.

Nothing seems to shift the view of many anti-vaxxer Americans.

Indeed, just look at the reception Donald Trump gets from his side when he tells them he is pro vaccine/was responsible for the vaccines.

RochdalePioneers

BartholomewRoberts said:

RochdalePioneers said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

HYUFD said:

Roger said:

Scott_xP said:

In just over two mins, Rory Stewart skewers Boris Johnson like a kebab - and every word rings completely true. Such minimalist clarity is impressive! https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1484305993987067908

I'm surprised that Johnson is being allowed to get away with this crap ...the most successful roll out anywhere .... 'the best vaccine program'... 'The best track and trace'....'the best economy in the G20' ....'The best recovery....The most sought after destination blah blah blah...."

That isn't what the coronavirus figures show. We have the sixth biggest death toll in the world and a bigger death toll than any country in the EU.

What exactly have we done that makes us the best?

I went to Chester two days ago and there were more rough sleepers than I've even seen in Barcelona. It was back to the dark days of Thatcher when you couldn't pass a doorway in the West End without stepping over a cardboard box with someone sleeping in it.

Well done Rory!

In terms of Covid deaths per head Poland, Italy, Bulgaria, Hungary, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Slovakia and the Czech Republic are all worse than us now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

Germany and the USA have more homeless than the UK
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

That is massively misleading by you. From the table you link to:

The German homeless number "*Includes "around 441,000 asylum seekers and refugees in temporary accommodation"; only 4.9/10000 people are without any shelter"

The US total is higher than the UK but in terms of % population they are massively lower - 17.7 per 10,000 compared to the UK value of 54 per 10,000. That we have a higher rate of homelessness than the US should be a matter of shame to any British Government.

No he's not being misleading in this instance since people with temporary shelter are defined as homeless in the UK too. So you should compare the UK's raw figure with Germany's raw figure for a like-for-like comparison.

This is like discussions about poverty, but where poverty has been redefined to mean inequality. International tables and comparisons are absurd if you aren't comparing like for like.

There is no way the real homeless situation in the UK is worse than America's. Any drive or walk through British and American cities would confirm that.

When the UK takes in a million or so refugees like Germany has over the last few years then you might have a point. Until then you are just talking bullshit. Germany has a short term issue related to accepting all those refugees. The UK has a long standing and endemic problem with homelessness which no Government has been taking seriously.

The UK has taken in millions of migrants over the last few years, net migration is considerably higher in the UK than it has been in Germany for many years now which inevitably affects the housing situation. Either way though on a like-for-like comparison the German situation is worse.

However I was primarily responding to your nonsense claim that the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA. Stop and think about that for thirty seconds please and think for thirty seconds about the fact that, like in Germany, those in temporary accommodation are classed as "homeless" in the UK.

Now after stopping and thinking do you still want to claim the homeless situation in the UK is worse than the USA? Really?

Yet again you are being thoroughly dishonest in your comparisons. The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. Germany has taken in millions with nothing but the clothes on their back. The comparison you make is simply stupid and ignorant.

No that isn't true whatsoever.

The housing supply is [barring construction/demolitions] relatively fixed. A house doesn't care whether its occupants have money or not, are asylum seekers or workers, or so on and so forth.

More people coming here than leaving means more houses are required whether that's for asylum seekers or immigrants. Asylum seekers are no more a negative for housing demand than any other immigrants are and its wrong for your to characterise them as such.

However anyway under free movement it is simply categorically not the case that people could only migrate here if they had the money to pay for their accommodation. We had no visa pre-screening for wealth or income or ability to pay for housing.

We had millions arrive from Eastern Europe with "the clothes on their back" who did not arrive with the cash to pay for British housing costs. But we did have housing benefit etc available, but yes just like with asylum seekers, that means in times people ending up in temporary accommodation. Especially since there was no glut of empty housing available for people to move into, like there was in parts of Germany.

That is just fantasy from start to finish. You will say anything to justify your indefensible positions.

So you really think everyone who arrived in the UK from Eastern Europe arrived with enough money to pay British accommodation costs already in the bank?

Over a million Romanians in the UK according to the settled status visa scheme. You think every single one of them arrived with enough money already in the bank saved up in Romania to pay for British housing costs and none of them came with just their shirt on their back?

If so you're being indefensible. And I say that as someone who's a big fan of immigration and welcomes the fact that many people arrived here with nothing but the clothes on their back and have worked hard since arriving here. But to deny it happened because it suits your agenda is just absurd.

I'd be perfectly happy to see restrictions on movement abolished and free movement restored, so long as that's twinned with restrictions on building abolished and the requirement for planning consent to be abolished too. No visa requirements, no planning consent requirements, should go hand-in-hand. But we've had one without the other and many people quite reasonably took advantage of that with nothing but their clothes on their back to start a new life in this country - and good luck to them too. Why would you pour scorn on them for doing so?

What makes me laugh about your posts is your absurd absolutism. Where did Richard say suggest or imply that "everyone" arriving from elsewhere had loads of money on arrival? Some arrived here to do actual jobs with contracts. Others arrived to beg. It is neither everyone nor no-one.

"The UK has taken in millions of migrants who came here with work and with money to pay for accommodation. "

There was no visa pre-screening to check that the millions who came here had the money to pay for accommodation before they arrived.

That it is neither everyone nor no-one verifies what I was saying. Thank you for agreeing with me.

If you take that as me agreeing with you then you really are deluded. We're all ignoring your straw man absolutist drivvle, not trying to support them.

eek

Polruan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

I suggested the other day that his level of delusion about his destiny is such that he'd sit on the backbenches waiting for the day when the world needs its king back. He'd be a complete nightmare for whoever loses GE24 for the Tories, managing to convince a loyal band of followers that he was unfairly removed as leader, was still a proven winner, and the only chance they had of removing PM Starmer in GE29.

While a lot of sane people in the US are hoping that New York will find enough tax fraud to send Trump to jail we can hope that the voters of Uxbridge are equally as thoughtful and provide us with a suitable Portillo moment.

Sandpit

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

The level of anti-vaxxer nonsense in the US is mind boggling. Still only 25% boostered.

I've flagged up a few times just how partisan divide the antivax stuff in America is.

I'm so glad we don't have that here in the UK.

It was unfortunate that it the pandemic happened during an election year in the US, with hyper-partisan treatment of everything.

Trump got booed recently by a crowd of his own supporters for saying get vaccinated, and there’s still a large group of hippies and yoga moms who won’t get jabbed either.

northern_monkey

MoonRabbit said:

northern_monkey said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

Churchill, the self-described “Escaped Scapegoat,” joined the army in November 1915 as a Major in the Queen’s Own Oxfordshire Hussars and trained in the front lines for several weeks with the Guards Division. There was discussion of him getting command of a brigade as a Brigadier-General, but this fell through when vetoed by Prime Minister H.H Asquith, Churchill’s former political chief. Instead, Churchill became Lt. Colonel commanding the 6th (Service) Battalion, Royal Scots Fusiliers (RSF), part of the 9th (Scottish) Division, in January 1916. The 6th was a Kitchener New Army unit sent to France in May 1915, and was recovering from the September 1915 Battle of Loos.

Churchill and the 6th RSF served in the trenches of Ploegsteert (“Plugstreet” as British tommies called it), part of the Belgian salient of Ypres, a city now known in Flemish as Ieper but fixed in tommy-talk as “Wipers.” As battalion commander he performed well, winning over dubious junior officers and enlisted men. He survived many close calls, and while on leave also engaged in politics. But he soon realized he had little prospect for promotion. In May 1916 the 6th, unable to replenish its losses, was amalgamated with another battalion. Thus Churchill had an opportunity to leave the army and honorably return to the political home front, where the Asquith government was under fire. (Churchill duly helped stoke the flames.)

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/churchill-trenches-peter-apps/

I did read somewhere why he went with the French helmet but for the life of me can't remember why!

I suppose having your lucky helmet on is the same as having your lucky nickers on.

I never leave home without my lucky helmet...

Sorry, Friday innit.

Sandpit

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

Either is good. PayPal?

We shall pay you in Dutch Tulips.

Or NFTs, as we call them these days.

MISTY

FrancisUrquhart said:

AlistairM said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Media reporting Meat Loaf died of COVID.

Oh dear, he'd have been very high risk given his age combined with weight. A true musical legend either way, but I hope he wasn't an unvaccinated Darwin Award winner. RIP either way but sad if that is the case.

He didn't confirm that he was vaccinated but last year when the vaccines were being rolled out he said he wouldn't be controlled, so I'm guessing he was unvaxxed.

In shocking news, he wasn't a fan of masks either,

Shakes head....another glimpse that in the US handling of COVID all round from the top to the bottom has been terrible, from federal to individuals.

As I noted at the start of this thread, while most developed countries now suffer a fraction of the deaths in this wave despite enormous numbers of cases, the US deaths are basically as high as wave one, and still not seen Omicron deaths really kicking in yet.

Given his age and weight you would have thought he would have willingly taken the vaccines but you cannot always reason with stupidity.

Meatloaf was a genuine superstar. If he died of Covid because he was unvaccinated then I hope what happened to him will give a nudge to those who still have not been vaccinated.

Nothing seems to shift the view of many anti-vaxxer Americans.

Not even Donald Trump, who is consistently booed at rallies when he advises supporters to get vaccinated.

Malmesbury

JosiasJessop said:

Theuniondivvie said:

MoonRabbit said:

Theuniondivvie said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Foxy said:

BartholomewRoberts said:

Foxy said:

turbotubbs said:

Farooq said:

And he's got there faster than Corbyn did.

Boris is worse than Corbyn

Can we agree they are both terrible?

At least Corbyn made a dignified exit. Well, relatively...

Is that the same Corbyn who refused to resign after losing a Vote of No Confidence amongst his MPs, then lost an election but acted like he won it, then lost another election which this time his parties biggest defeat since before WWII?

I can't see Boris following that path. If he loses a Vote of No Confidence he'll be out, unlike Corbyn. Nor will he lose not one but two General Elections.

Johnson will leave with less dignity than the man-baby across the pond, having further Ratnered his brand.

Actually, I've been messaging someone who knows Boris Johnson quite well, he reckons he might remain an MP and keep some dignity about him.

If he is ousted he sees it as his Churchill after the Dardanelles campaign moment, a great man forced out by pygmies.

Then he will be back when the country needs him.

Will Johnson like his hero seek redemption in the trenches of Eastern Ukraine?

Will he fuck.

How close to the lice ridden trenches and rotting corpse fumed front line did Churchill actually get? Honest question.

Right in it I believe, at 'Plugstreet', though I daresay the comforts and hampers from home were considerable. For reasons obscure (being a show off I expect) he insisted on wearing a French Adrian helmet.

You can accuse Churchill of many things, but personal cowardice is not one of them. If anything, the opposite applies: he was stupidly reckless at times (being on the roof whilst bombs were falling; the Sidney Street siege).

There were at least a couple of occasions where Churchill was moderately seriously considered for a VC. Both occasions were qaushed by senior men upset with his journalism

IIRC the French helmet was given to him by a French General.

At Sidney Street, the famous picture shows Churchill using a brick wall for cover, while soldiers in front of him appear to be trying to hide behind a plate glass shop window. I guess Churchill was the professional, there.

TheScreamingEagles

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sub-variant of Omicron being investigated by UK health agency
Scientists have said they are investigating a sub-variant of Omicron known as BA.2.

In a tweet posted on Friday lunchtime, the UK Health Security Agency said BA.2 had been designated as a variant under investigation - though case numbers were "currently low".

The UKHSA, the government agency responsible for public health protection, said the original Omicron variant, known as BA.1, remained the dominant form of Covid in the UK.

Further analyses would be undertaken into the new variant, the UKHSA said.

Dr Meera Chand, incident director at the UKHSA, said: "It is the nature of viruses to evolve and mutate, so it's to be expected that we will continue to see new variants emerge as the pandemic goes on.

"Our continued genomic surveillance allows us to detect them and assess whether they are significant."

I pity the fool that gets over excited by this new variant.

Exactly. If they were more like me, they would have spotted this variant about a month ago, and would now be fully apprised of its potentialities - and/or lack

PB should pay me as a kind of human early warning system

I'm sure plenty of us would pay you to never talk about Covid-19 again.

Either is good. PayPal?

We shall pay you in Dutch Tulips.

Otherwise known as Bitcoin...going very cheap today.

Cryptos are coming under my aegis at work, I'm going to set policy on this.

Sadly it is because more and more reputable companies are looking to accept Bitcoin and others as payments.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/11/12/22779137/amc-theaters-movie-tickets-cryptocurrency-bitcoin-cash-ethereum-litecoin