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Johnson’s leader ratings fall to Corbyn’s GE2019 levels – politicalbetting.com

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  • Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,076

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Lol!

    You never met Colin W, or Martin Day, or one or two others whose splenetic provocations regularly attracted the ban hammer.

    The multi-faceted Leon is a delight when you get used to him and know how to approach the creature. I suggest wit, and intelligence if you can muster enough. You can argue with him too, but he's slippery, so watch it; bit like wrestling with a pig: you both get dirty and the pig enjoys it.

    Above all, don't take it too seriously. It's a blog, not The Bloody Assizes.
    {Judge Jeffries has entered the chat}

    Anyone need anything?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
    I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned.
    But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    No requirement, you're right.
    But the argument that "we elect a member not a party" is utterly disconnected from what motivates people at the ballot box. Surely some people vote for the man or woman, but most are putting a cross next to the party. In the basis of ideology, manifesto, leader. Legal fact is political fiction in this case. We need system that reflects this better.
    There could be an Act of Parliament mandating a by-election when an MP changes party. It could be based on the Private Members Bill introduced in 2020 which was co-sponsored by, erm, Christian Wakeford...
  • Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    No requirement, you're right.
    But the argument that "we elect a member not a party" is utterly disconnected from what motivates people at the ballot box. Surely some people vote for the man or woman, but most are putting a cross next to the party. In the basis of ideology, manifesto, leader. Legal fact is political fiction in this case. We need system that reflects this better.
    There could be an Act of Parliament mandating a by-election when an MP changes party. It could be based on the Private Members Bill introduced in 2020 which was co-sponsored by, erm, Christian Wakeford...
    The irony
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    No requirement, you're right.
    But the argument that "we elect a member not a party" is utterly disconnected from what motivates people at the ballot box. Surely some people vote for the man or woman, but most are putting a cross next to the party. In the basis of ideology, manifesto, leader. Legal fact is political fiction in this case. We need system that reflects this better.
    There could be an Act of Parliament mandating a by-election when an MP changes party. It could be based on the Private Members Bill introduced in 2020 which was co-sponsored by, erm, Christian Wakeford...
    Even Mark Reckless had the guts to submit himself back to the people who elected him, when he decided to cross the floor.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    The anti tank kit we're sending to Ukraine looks quite effective.
    https://www.saab.com/newsroom/stories/2018/june/5-facts-about-saabs-nlaw-anti-tank-system

    What I'd like to see is some type of weapon that can thaw the wetlands the moment the 1200 Russian tanks are fully committed to crossing it.
    A few megatons should do it..
    Thawing ice you say.

    Ted Taylor would be so happy that his MICE* finally got to play. Or not, probably.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Taylor_(physicist)
    What a small, small world:

    "he founded a not-for-profit organization in Montgomery County, Maryland called Damascus Energy"

    I live in the town of Damascus, in the county of Montgomery, in the state of Maryland.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1

    I thought Leon abandoned the BA2 train some days ago and was now trawling Twitter for a more promising variant to scare himself with?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Farooq said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    I always admit when I'm wrong.
    Indeed. I said most, not all.

    @Benpointer is another one who always will.

    Even @Leon has his moments in this regard.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Farooq said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    No requirement, you're right.
    But the argument that "we elect a member not a party" is utterly disconnected from what motivates people at the ballot box. Surely some people vote for the man or woman, but most are putting a cross next to the party. In the basis of ideology, manifesto, leader. Legal fact is political fiction in this case. We need system that reflects this better.
    For many, you're right but I do happen to know people including a close friend who votes for a Labour MP even though my friend is a diehard tory. Why? Because he says the MP in question "is a brilliant constituency Member of Parliament who serves our community, as well as being moderate which helps".

    Interesting isn't it?
    Yes, it's certain that some people are motivated to vote for the person. And on here, I suspect a higher proportion than is normal would say so. Lots of you seem to have met your MP. But that's not really normal for the laity.
    Personal vote is probably pretty small in most cases and won't make a difference, and of course it is correct that in practice a lot of people decide their vote on the basis of the rosette. But whether that is what they are doing in or not, fact is that is not what they are actually doing.

    Since I'm in favour of a more proportional system anyway I'm more up for considering all manner of potential improvements, but until there is support for changes, and changes enacted, politicians making the 'should resign' argument is just tiresome, since they know better.
    I don't think it's at all tiresome. Both sides of the argument are valid. Legally no need to call a by-election. Politically, it's a way of avoiding voters being upset that their Conservative vote is now giving them a Labour MP. I'm on the fence about it.
    The arguments are valid, I find it tiresome from politicians because they know the rules of the game and their positions are transparently only about if it benefits them or not on this occasion, so it is extremely phony. They don't care about the arguments, they would be stupid to risk a new seat by sticking to a principle, and the other side stupid not to make the attempt to win it back.

    So it is like watching a badly acted play as they parrot the expected lines with no real passion or engagement.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,030
    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    The anti tank kit we're sending to Ukraine looks quite effective.
    https://www.saab.com/newsroom/stories/2018/june/5-facts-about-saabs-nlaw-anti-tank-system

    What I'd like to see is some type of weapon that can thaw the wetlands the moment the 1200 Russian tanks are fully committed to crossing it.
    Anti-tank ditches are still a thing. There are even linear shaped charges made that will dig one - unroll x yards of it, wire it up and boom....
    Nah! I want the tanks to sink, and the tank crews to get that awful sinking feeling, knowing the only thing they can do is to abandon their tanks.
  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    The same poll concludes Boris/Rishi can still win GE 24
    Yes, but I was really surprised to see that Rishi polls little better than Boris. That suggests that the problem is the Party rather than the leader. That's not what I would have expected.

    Am I misreading something? If I am not, your team's problems may run deeper than I thought.
    I do not think anyone can be sure the outcome of GE24 with either Boris or Rishi as this poll states, but at this moment in time the conservative party looks unelectable and the future is far from certain as is their recovery
    Wasn't trying to call the next GE, Big G.

    As it happens a ten point deficit is about par for a mid-term Government and in itself wouldn't be especially worrying for it. It's the context that is troubling.

    Personally I'm a great believer in good Opposition so the idea of a Tory meltdown in two years time is not my ideal scenario. I think there is a danger that Boris takes the Blue Team there. It's avoidable though and I would like to see it avoided.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    I always admit when I'm wrong.
    Actually that's not true.
    Bravo.
  • TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Farooq said:

    Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    No requirement, you're right.
    But the argument that "we elect a member not a party" is utterly disconnected from what motivates people at the ballot box. Surely some people vote for the man or woman, but most are putting a cross next to the party. In the basis of ideology, manifesto, leader. Legal fact is political fiction in this case. We need system that reflects this better.
    There could be an Act of Parliament mandating a by-election when an MP changes party. It could be based on the Private Members Bill introduced in 2020 which was co-sponsored by, erm, Christian Wakeford...
    What happened to that private members bill?
    What usually happens.

    The Bill failed to complete its passage through Parliament before the end of the session. This means the Bill will make no further progress.

    https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/2773/news
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1

    Yeah, but how can you be sure that Danish demographics are the same as our ... [runs and hides]
  • Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1

    Halt the infinity poo!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1

    Can’t compare the Danish population to ours!

    That’s silly. Stupid.

    Let’s move immediately back to Plan B.

    Only socialise if you absolutely have to.

    @JosiasJessop will agree, I’m sure.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,076
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    The anti tank kit we're sending to Ukraine looks quite effective.
    https://www.saab.com/newsroom/stories/2018/june/5-facts-about-saabs-nlaw-anti-tank-system

    What I'd like to see is some type of weapon that can thaw the wetlands the moment the 1200 Russian tanks are fully committed to crossing it.
    A few megatons should do it..
    Thawing ice you say.

    Ted Taylor would be so happy that his MICE* finally got to play. Or not, probably.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Taylor_(physicist)
    What a small, small world:

    "he founded a not-for-profit organization in Montgomery County, Maryland called Damascus Energy"

    I live in the town of Damascus, in the county of Montgomery, in the state of Maryland.

    I always like the semi-urban legend that his eventual PhD consisted of one page of paper, which (essentially) read - "We can't tell you anything about what he's done, but give him a PhD, signed {insert names famous for Nobels for Physics}"
  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    The same poll concludes Boris/Rishi can still win GE 24
    Yes, but I was really surprised to see that Rishi polls little better than Boris. That suggests that the problem is the Party rather than the leader. That's not what I would have expected.

    Am I misreading something? If I am not, your team's problems may run deeper than I thought.
    I do not think anyone can be sure the outcome of GE24 with either Boris or Rishi as this poll states, but at this moment in time the conservative party looks unelectable and the future is far from certain as is their recovery
    Wasn't trying to call the next GE, Big G.

    As it happens a ten point deficit is about par for a mid-term Government and in itself wouldn't be especially worrying for it. It's the context that is troubling.

    Personally I'm a great believer in good Opposition so the idea of a Tory meltdown in two years time is not my ideal scenario. I think there is a danger that Boris takes the Blue Team there. It's avoidable though and I would like to see it avoided.
    Agreed
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,836
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Boris Johnson as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 48%
    CON: 36%
    LDM: 6%
    GRN: 3%
    REF: 3%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    So Boris does better in the redwall than every other Tory alternative except Sunak then. However even Sunak still loses most of the redwall to Starmer.

    Suggests Sunak would make it closer but still not win the next general election even if Boris was removed
    Again, you're assuming two things:

    1. That nothing will change between now and the next election - which may well still be further into the future than GE2019 is in the past
    2. That various of the less well known candidates who do rather badly against Starmer in this wholly theoretical scenario suffer from being viewed as inferior to the Labour leader, rather than from being unknown

    Boris Johnson is a known but discredited quantity. Rishi Sunak and no more than a handful of other senior ministers (Gove, Patel, Javid, perhaps Raab?) are vaguely known. However, I should imagine that most of the electorate has no fixed idea about what the majority of the cabinet stand for, even if they recognise their names in the first place. The very similar numbers for all potential successors not called Sunak may, at least in part, be the product of this.

    Zahawi, who has been high-profile for about five minutes does terribly in the poll; other potential dark horse candidates like Wallace aren't even considered. Yet for all we know, they could turn out to be effective and put the boot into Labour as it comes to terms with its own internal splits and problem policy areas.

    These sorts of exercises are great fun, I'm sure, but the information that they give us is necessarily limited.
  • HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    The same poll concludes Boris/Rishi can still win GE 24
    Yes, but I was really surprised to see that Rishi polls little better than Boris. That suggests that the problem is the Party rather than the leader. That's not what I would have expected.

    Am I misreading something? If I am not, your team's problems may run deeper than I thought.
    After 10 years in power most parties in government lose.

    Major's Tories were the exception in 1992 but he had a major policy difference from Thatcher in that he dumped the poll tax. What is the major policy difference between Sunak and Boris?
    Well if pushed I'd be inclined to say that Sunak would tend to promote policies that were good for the Country, whereas Boris prefers policies that are good for Boris, but that may be a bit simplistic.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,848

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
    What do you suppose we should do about it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1

    Can’t compare the Danish population to ours!

    That’s silly. Stupid.

    Let’s move immediately back to Plan B.

    Only socialise if you absolutely have to.

    @JosiasJessop will agree, I’m sure.
    "Everything should be stated as simply as possible, but not more simply"

    Someone

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464
    HYUFD said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    The same poll concludes Boris/Rishi can still win GE 24
    Yes, but I was really surprised to see that Rishi polls little better than Boris. That suggests that the problem is the Party rather than the leader. That's not what I would have expected.

    Am I misreading something? If I am not, your team's problems may run deeper than I thought.
    After 10 years in power most parties in government lose.

    Major's Tories were the exception in 1992 but he had a major policy difference from Thatcher in that he dumped the poll tax. What is the major policy difference between Sunak and Boris?
    It’s more a case of a human tongue versus one with a fork in it. 😀

    I jest. I agree with you. This is the key question. What is the major policy difference between Sunak and Boris?

    When my Dad told me before I came back down to London that the plan to oust Boris was going to happen, he explained it was because of policy. Boris does big brush slogan policy that isn’t policy at all. He has no policy detail, whilst Conservatives have always been about policy detail and delivery.

    Around the time of the Party Conference the policy was economically illiterate and unachievable. That’s the real reason this is happening, get their hands on the policy board to chalk something sane up there.

    Does that make sense, have I explained it clearly?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,842
    The Survation poll another very strong Labour poll it seems with perhaps the Conservatives rallying slightly off their very low numbers from last week.

    It's still a 10-point Labour lead and an 11.5% swing from Conservative to Labour from 2019. Add in tactical voting and basically any Conservative facing a Labour swing of less than 15% is in big trouble.

    The Redfield & Wilton "Red Wall" poll seems to confirm this. Although Rishi Sunak does slightly better than the Prime Minister, with him as leader the Conservatives trail by 12 having won the seats by, I would guess, a similar number.

    The problem for Conservatives wanting rid of Johnson but not enamoured of Sunak as a successor is none of the other potential candidates poll anywhere near as well. From Liz Truss onward, it's varying shades of disaster with deficits of 20 to 27 points which would mean all the 40 seats going back into the Labour column.

    It's not over by any means.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994
    Some remarkably short private memebr bills out there - one at the moment on increasing the age of criminal responsibility to 12 the content is only twice the length of the 'Be it enacted' opener.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    Farooq said:

    Applicant said:

    Farooq said:

    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    No requirement, you're right.
    But the argument that "we elect a member not a party" is utterly disconnected from what motivates people at the ballot box. Surely some people vote for the man or woman, but most are putting a cross next to the party. In the basis of ideology, manifesto, leader. Legal fact is political fiction in this case. We need system that reflects this better.
    There could be an Act of Parliament mandating a by-election when an MP changes party. It could be based on the Private Members Bill introduced in 2020 which was co-sponsored by, erm, Christian Wakeford...
    What happened to that private members bill?
    Ten minute rule bill, so it never got a second reading. Wakeford was one of only 55 MPs to vote Aye at the ten minute rule stage (52 against): https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2020-09-02/division/BC12A962-20C9-432C-9C11-D92090E22150/RecallOfMps(ChangeOfPartyAffiliation)?outputType=Names
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Nigelb said:

    The anti tank kit we're sending to Ukraine looks quite effective.
    https://www.saab.com/newsroom/stories/2018/june/5-facts-about-saabs-nlaw-anti-tank-system

    What I'd like to see is some type of weapon that can thaw the wetlands the moment the 1200 Russian tanks are fully committed to crossing it.
    A few megatons should do it..
    Thawing ice you say.

    Ted Taylor would be so happy that his MICE* finally got to play. Or not, probably.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Taylor_(physicist)
    What a small, small world:

    "he founded a not-for-profit organization in Montgomery County, Maryland called Damascus Energy"

    I live in the town of Damascus, in the county of Montgomery, in the state of Maryland.

    I always like the semi-urban legend that his eventual PhD consisted of one page of paper, which (essentially) read - "We can't tell you anything about what he's done, but give him a PhD, signed {insert names famous for Nobels for Physics}"
    Oppenheimer, Lawrence, Feynman, Bethe and Fermi? (Not that they all got a Nobel, but their word would carry weight)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,849

    Leon stand down, repeat stand down...

    Denmark health institute says no increase in hospitalizations seen for Omicron sub-variant BA.2 compared to BA.1

    Wishing that Leon would run out of things to panic about is sadly fruitless, because as each threat proves groundless there is always another one.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Off topic, but TIL.
    Anne Frank and Martin Luther King were born in the same year (1929).
    Three years after HM Queen.
    They'd be 94 this year.
  • BBC News - Covid vaccinations: Anti-vaxers use 'crime number' to try to halt jabs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60083474
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,464
    edited January 2022

    Scott_xP said:

    It is understood scores of photos were taken during that night.

    In general hard evidence of events could complicate Downing Street’s defence - esp on whether they were work events.

    Sue Gray + team have asked some Downing St officials to hand over phones, per a government source

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1484576577048485899

    😆 anything on a phone is long gone.
    Non-technical people, in the world of default cloud backup, and social media? Ha Ha.. There are 137 billion copies of those photos out there, for sure.

    It's almost as funny as the people who think that Bitcoin guarantees anonymity.

    Then again, some people have been claiming that No 10 is a no personal phone zone. So does this mean *official* phones?
    But it’s not on the phone though? She’ll need more than asking to see the phone is my point.

    When someone says they didn’t see an email, can the server logs prove they are lying?

    Ditto, if anything is deleted?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,914

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    Valid point, but people I know changed their behaviour in the run up to Christmas anyway, and would have irrespective of plan B.

    There was a general feeling of "I'm not going to the work Christmas party / out with mates this weekend because I don't want to get it and end up in isolation over xmas / not be able to go home to see family / don't want to give it to Gran etc" - so hospitality was buggered whatever happened.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,088
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    In happier news. My 100% record of having mildly disappointing food (on my one previous Sri Lankan trip) has been easily shattered. It’s all good so far. Black Pork Curry lunch here was absolutely excellent

    https://www.zomato.com/colombo/the-gallery-cafe-kollupitiya-colombo-03

    Colombo is a strange city. Poor, scruffy, yet in places intensely civilised. And stunned by the sun and heat into an amiable complacency

    Are there still lots of stray dogs lining the streets? Was when I was there. Plagued with them - a bit off-putting.
    Not one that I’ve seen. Not cats. In fact a decided absence by “3rd World” standards (are we still allowed to say 3rd World? What’s the replacement?)
    The Global South. Not to be confused with the pop group of that name.
    The Global South is surely far more insulting than “3rd World” (which is an antique Cold War term, I readily confess)

    For a start there are plenty of once-developing countries in the “Global South” which would really resent that characterization;. Chileans are quite haughty about being compared to Argentina, let alone Sudan. Indonesia is equally proud, likewise Costa Rica, the Maldives, Mauritius, what even is “the Global South”?
    You asked what the term now is and I told you - The Global South. But please note it doesn't mean below the equator. It's pretty much a straight replacement for 3rd World. It's a development measure not a geographic one. Insulting? No, the whole point is that 3rd World was, but this isn't. Everyone is happy and onboard with it.
    Third World originates in the division between the Communist block and the capitalist democracies, hence Third World. S such it is obsolete for the fall of the Soviet Union.
    Quite. I don’t think @kinabalu grasps the basic etymology of “3rd World”
    Of course I grasp. Obsolete, as I said, and the term now is Global South. Although Francis Urquhart informs us there has been a further evolution. If so, fine. Language lives, it doesn't atrophy. One of its many charms. Surf it, don't fight it. Surprised I have to tell a pro writer this.
    But this is exactly the same issue as with all the synonyms for non-white. It's the concept behind the description that people don't like, not the latest iteration.
    Well sometimes you need a general description for something, don't you? Avoid sloppy generalizations, yes, but sometimes a term is needed.

    TBH, the people on here who get hung up about this stuff are not the ones agonizing over the "correct" term to use. Hardly anybody does that. I certainly don't. No, the ones for whom this is a matter of great concern are those forever keen to eye-roll about how "difficult" and "illogical" it all is.

    It's just virtue signalling, where the virtue being signalled is "Ooo I'm a free-thinking, intellectually muscular type, me."
    You need to use a specific term for the countries you want to refer to, otherwise it's just an example of lazy thinking and othering.

    So for vaccines you can specifically refer to countries that don't have domestic vaccine production capacity, or the cash to pay for vaccines manufactured elsewhere. Because this will be a different group of countries, not involving India for example, than if you want to talk about countries where a large proportion of the country still lacks basic sanitation or electricity (which does include a lot of rural India still).

    Your approach is a hangover from Colonialism. It betrays a Colonialist mindset. It divides the world between those countries that are strong enough to colonize others and those that would be better off if they were still colonised. You need to free yourself from that paradigm of thinking.
    My approach? C'mon. I tend to say something like "poorer countries" when I'm referring to what used to be called the 3rd World and is now (I believe) often referred to as the Global South. Indeed you'll struggle to find much use of any of these so-called woke terms in my posts at all. MY approach - honestly!

    You probably have a point about the mindset of some of those for whom these "defined as opposite to the norm" terms slip easily off the tongue. Ingrained superiority syndrome maybe? Yes, maybe. But my point is different. I mean, are the people who are forever eye-rolling about this stuff - the "oh god what do we call it/them now?" merchants - doing it as a pushback against ingrained superiority syndrome? I rather doubt it.
    Tell the woke halfwits to take a hike an dpeddle their crap elsewhere, you call them exactly wht you want to and take mince from no man or woman
    Not used to having your support on this topic, Malcolm!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    Valid point, but people I know changed their behaviour in the run up to Christmas anyway, and would have irrespective of plan B.

    There was a general feeling of "I'm not going to the work Christmas party / out with mates this weekend because I don't want to get it and end up in isolation over xmas / not be able to go home to see family / don't want to give it to Gran etc" - so hospitality was buggered whatever happened.
    In fact, the government were being ridiculed on here and in the press, for advise that people were reading as “Don’t go to the office, but do go to the office party”. Government in England were trying to keep hospitality busy, but as you say people changed their behaviours anyway, in the face of rising infections.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
    What do you suppose we should do about it.
    Who's we?

    If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
  • DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
    I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned.
    But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
    I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
    It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Is that called a Rose?

    That's not the subject but it can be now if you want it.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340

    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
    I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned.
    But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
    I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
    It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
    Groucho was a great reader and his political philosophy that all politicians are clueless batshit crazy morons has stood the test of time far better than 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!'

    I mean, people still watch Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera.

    Are you following me? Well, stop following me or I'll have you arrested.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    edited January 2022
    Another Met copper sent down for sexual offences:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10427127/Traumatised-model-secretly-filmed-nude-senior-Met-Police-officer.html
    Detective Inspector, no less, posing as a photographer to film women changing. How many more dodgy coppers in that force?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    No. Anabobazine was just describing what a porta potty is.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Sandpit said:

    Another Met copper sent down for sexual offences:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10427127/Traumatised-model-secretly-filmed-nude-senior-Met-Police-officer.html
    Detective Inspector, no less. How many more dodgy coppers in that force?

    The word order in that link though...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Did you hear about Zara Rutherford, the 19-year-old who just became the youngest woman to fly around the world solo?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/21/wilderness-wildfires-and-pop-music-how-zara-rutherford-flew-into-record-books
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340
    JBriskin3 said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
    Not Canada. In this city it's used as a Lingala Franca.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
    I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned.
    But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
    I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
    It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
    I’ve seen Ayn Rand quoted approvingly on here but not Marx.
  • Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    The same poll concludes Boris/Rishi can still win GE 24
    Yes, but I was really surprised to see that Rishi polls little better than Boris. That suggests that the problem is the Party rather than the leader. That's not what I would have expected.

    Am I misreading something? If I am not, your team's problems may run deeper than I thought.
    I do not think anyone can be sure the outcome of GE24 with either Boris or Rishi as this poll states, but at this moment in time the conservative party looks unelectable and the future is far from certain as is their recovery
    Wasn't trying to call the next GE, Big G.

    As it happens a ten point deficit is about par for a mid-term Government and in itself wouldn't be especially worrying for it. It's the context that is troubling.

    Personally I'm a great believer in good Opposition so the idea of a Tory meltdown in two years time is not my ideal scenario. I think there is a danger that Boris takes the Blue Team there. It's avoidable though and I would like to see it avoided.
    Agreed
    Noted with thanks, BigG.

    Btw, I just caught your earlier response about parties and agreed with that too. I did misread your post and we seem to be very much on the same page.....so much so that we had better discontinue this dialogue before people start talking about us.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340
    dixiedean said:

    Sandpit said:

    Another Met copper sent down for sexual offences:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10427127/Traumatised-model-secretly-filmed-nude-senior-Met-Police-officer.html
    Detective Inspector, no less. How many more dodgy coppers in that force?

    The word order in that link though...
    Yes, it is rather unfortunate. Bit like 'enraged cow injures farmer with axe.'
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,386
    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,926
    edited January 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Off topic, but TIL.
    Anne Frank and Martin Luther King were born in the same year (1929).
    Three years after HM Queen.
    They'd be 94 this year.

    I found a discussion on the Today programme this week on who was responsible for dobbing in the Frank family to the Gestapo slightly weird. Obviously it's of interest but there seemed to be a discomfiting need to find who was to blame.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    JBriskin3 said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
    No, I’m guessing somewhere in Francophone Africa?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,040
    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Most PBers have been blocked by their MPs on Twitter.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340
    edited January 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Most PBers have been blocked by their MPs on Twitter.
    Amanda Milling's never blocked me.

    Mind you, I've seen her block her ears when I'm playing the organ, if that counts.

    Edit, no it was not my playing, some twat with a mike walked in front of a speaker.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
    Not Canada. In this city it's used as a Lingala Franca.
    I would guess Kinshasa. Hopefully will get there next year. Was due to go during the last Ebola outbreak, but it ended before I got my visa.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,485

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    You're missing a vital point: were you correct for the correct reasons.

    In December, I could have thrown a coin to decide whether Omicron had less lethality than Delta. A simple, random two-way choice. Say it came up as being 'less'. I could then go on here and crow how I was 'right', even though my choice had zero intelligence behind it, and try retrofitting my choice behind a whole load of data.

    At the time, we knew Omicron was spreading fast. We had far less data on the lagging metrics of illness and deaths. People in the UK were having to make decisions based on that data - and not make random choices.

    Why does this matter? Take the initial outbreak of Covid in February/March 2020. China was saying: "Nothing to see here, please move along." And we (the world) foolishly believed them, with notable exceptions such as Taiwan. I'd never claim that SA were purposefully lying, but the data we needed was not in - although there were positive indications.

    And this is where the problem for decision makes comes in. We 'knew' it was massively more infectious than Delta. We did not 'know' how illness or death happened with it - there were only indications, which might not match UK experience anyway.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    ydoethur said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
    Not Canada. In this city it's used as a Lingala Franca.
    Somewhere in Africa?

    I've tried 2 continents - I give up.
  • rcs1000 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Most PBers have been blocked by their MPs on Twitter.
    Restraining orders in a couple of cases..
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    dixiedean said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
    Absilytely
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Carnyx said:

    TimT said:

    slade said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Talking of crypto....and what people do after politics...Bercow doing Cameo. Just embarrassing that people prostitute themselves like this.

    https://twitter.com/CryptoBoole/status/1484180838866571264?s=20

    LOL how the mighty have fallen. He can’t even put his camera the right way round.

    Now, Cameo was a funny pandemic-era way to get an out-of-work actor or comedian to say happy birthday to your friend, but surely this sort of stunt raises all sorts of questions about advertising regulations?
    It's amusing as I've said before I think we pay our politicians too much and it'd be better if their pay was more closely linked to citizens pay in general. I believe in the 90s an MP typically got two times average income and now it's three times and I don't think that's healthy.

    Others have said they think MPs are underpaid compared to the private sector.

    While a tiny, tiny minority of the private sector may be worth more than MPs that's far from the case for all MPs as the likes of Bercow etc whoring themselves post politics helps demonstrate. As does the desperation in many MPs to do anything to stay loyal to the Party and keep their seat, because if they lose their seat they lose their job and there £84k+ salary they'd never achieve in the real world.
    Above average intelligence, middle class background at least, graduate from good uni, driven and ambitious, energetic, robust and thick skinned, gift of the gab, alert to opportunities to get ahead.

    The above being the typical profile of an MP, there's little doubt in my mind that most of them would have been able to earn more if they'd choosen a career in the private sector.
    Even male Russell group graduates earn on average £50,000 5 years after graduation, still less than an MP.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5818767/Degree-Russell-Group-universities-boost-salary-13.html

    Some may become partners in law firms and banks, directors, surgeons etc and earn more than MPs but they are the minority
    Most MPs are not 5 years from graduation (unless they have an unusually high number of mature students among their number)
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/house-of-commons-trends-the-age-of-mps/
    I am actually quite surprised the average is that high after 5 years.
    I do wonder whether the base stats are on all degrees, including Masters (and MBAs) and PhDs etc. That would boost the numbers up a bit. Depending on data too, if it's survey based (how else?) then likely to be a differential response with lower earners less responsive? Don't account for that and you get high numbers.

    Five years after first graduating I was doing a PhD on a £15k stipend, so I'm happy to believe those numbers are high :wink:
    So 22 years after PhD I'm just touching 50K, but thats a middle ranking academic salary. Just shows that I do it for love and not for the cash...
    Sounds familiar. I got my Ph.D. in 1973 and when I retired in 2001 as a progressed PL I had just reached 40K.
    Glad I didn't go the PhD route, then.
    But you do miss out on people sneering that you are not a real doctor as its not medicine...
    Unless one is a surgeon in which case it is Mr/Mrs/Ms etc. Friend of mine became a surgeon and I used to razz him that he wasn't a real doctor, until he got his MD ...
    FYI dentists are increasingly called doctors these days. Not sure why.
    Here in the US, MDs, surgeons, dentists and even vets are all called "doctor". As well as PhD holders too.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Sandpit said:

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Did you hear about Zara Rutherford, the 19-year-old who just became the youngest woman to fly around the world solo?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/21/wilderness-wildfires-and-pop-music-how-zara-rutherford-flew-into-record-books
    Good for her!!! :+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:

    I like to see women doing well.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    JBriskin3 said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
    I doubt Toronto qualifies as French is a minority language even though the country is officially bilingual.

    The list I have has Montreal at number 4 (Paris at 2).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340

    dixiedean said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
    Absilytely
    There's a grim irony that the world's most populous French speaking city is Kinshasa, given the number of Congolese murdered by Leopold of Belgium.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    JBriskin3 said:

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Is that called a Rose?

    That's not the subject but it can be now if you want it.
    Works for me. The coffee pot is on!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,088
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    MaxPB said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    In happier news. My 100% record of having mildly disappointing food (on my one previous Sri Lankan trip) has been easily shattered. It’s all good so far. Black Pork Curry lunch here was absolutely excellent

    https://www.zomato.com/colombo/the-gallery-cafe-kollupitiya-colombo-03

    Colombo is a strange city. Poor, scruffy, yet in places intensely civilised. And stunned by the sun and heat into an amiable complacency

    Are there still lots of stray dogs lining the streets? Was when I was there. Plagued with them - a bit off-putting.
    Not one that I’ve seen. Not cats. In fact a decided absence by “3rd World” standards (are we still allowed to say 3rd World? What’s the replacement?)
    The Global South. Not to be confused with the pop group of that name.
    The Global South is surely far more insulting than “3rd World” (which is an antique Cold War term, I readily confess)

    For a start there are plenty of once-developing countries in the “Global South” which would really resent that characterization;. Chileans are quite haughty about being compared to Argentina, let alone Sudan. Indonesia is equally proud, likewise Costa Rica, the Maldives, Mauritius, what even is “the Global South”?
    You asked what the term now is and I told you - The Global South. But please note it doesn't mean below the equator. It's pretty much a straight replacement for 3rd World. It's a development measure not a geographic one. Insulting? No, the whole point is that 3rd World was, but this isn't. Everyone is happy and onboard with it.
    "Everyone is happy and onboard with it."

    Not true....its far from settled issue.

    ‘Global South’, a term frequently used on websites and in papers related to academic and ‘predatory’ publishing, may represent a form of unscholarly discrimination. Arguments are put forward as to why the current use of this term is geographically meaningless, since it implies countries in the southern hemisphere, whereas many of the entities in publishing that are referred to as being part of the Global South are in fact either on the equator or in the northern hemisphere. Therefore, academics, in writing about academic publishing, should cease using this broad, culturally insensitive, and geographically inaccurate term.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354152094_Rethinking_the_use_of_the_term_'Global_South'_in_academic_publishing

    Many are as offended as the term BAME....

    Erondu says she's embarrassed if she inadvertently uses the term during a workshop in one of the countries in Africa where she works on health care issues. Why? "Because people in Nigeria don't refer to themselves as the 'global south.' It's something someone named them."

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/01/08/954820328/memo-to-people-of-earth-third-world-is-an-offensive-term?t=1642779555647

    And....

    https://www.travelfordifference.com/why-third-world-is-outdated-what-you-should-say-instead/

    http://re-design.dimiter.eu/?p=969#:~:text=You can say that we,southern part of South America.

    https://twitter.com/margoncalv/status/1446757363533369344

    I could go on and on. Third world is a no no, describing in terms of income is problematic and global south many don't like either.
    I see. So what's a better term then? What gets your stamp of approval? Or let's put it this way. What term do YOU use when needing one for referring to the relatively impoverished parts of the world?

    Eg, complete this sentence - The pandemic will soon be over in the rich nations of the West but will rage on for a long time in ????????? unless vaccines are rolled out there as a matter of priority.
    I still use third world.
    This isn't me being deliberately old-fashioned or deliberately refusing to use the woke term. It would never occur to me that third world was unwoke.
    Actually, I might use developing world. Which itself is a polite euphemism which replaced the earlier and more pejorative 'undeveloped world' despite it being glaringly apparently that many parts of the undeveloped world were not developing.
    I suppose - if it occurred to me, because it's not a phrase that ever really does occur to me - you could use 'global south' to include countries like Chile whereas third world brings to mind more countries like Benin.
    And I tend to say "poorer countries". Whatever, I don't find it a big deal. All that happened here was @Leon asked what was the modern term for 3rd World and I replied to him - being the helpful sort - with what I believe is the answer, Global South.

    From this we get to him - Leon - telling me I'm hung up about "woke" and that I act like some sort of language policema ... person, and now we have @MaxPB crashing in and saying I'm worse than a racist!

    Utterly bizarrio. And on a day that Meat Loaf died too. Chilean Red and Bag of Nuts time cannot come too soon for me today, I tell you.
    It's the same reason that SA Omicron data was dismissed. You and liberal racists have othered them with some new term that makes them different to us because they're poor, not white or both. The "global south" is stupid term.
    Ah, so that's me AND "liberal racists". Seems I'm off the hook. Phew.

    And I should be off the hook too. This hook anyway. Because the one & only time I've used the wicked othering term Global South is today in response to someone specifically asking about it.
    I found it strange that we got so rapidly from "global south" to "disease" and "spear chuckers". And from what I've read, that was nothing to do with you.
    Yes, just generally lots going on and not that much of it sequitorial. Like a rumbustious dinner party with everyone in super 'project & talk' mode and nobody listening. Which is ok, I suppose. In fact great if you're in the mood.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    dixiedean said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Somewhere in Africa. Kinshasa I would wager.
    Is the right answer. It only recently overtook Paris, AIUI.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.

    Scott_xP said:

    It is understood scores of photos were taken during that night.

    In general hard evidence of events could complicate Downing Street’s defence - esp on whether they were work events.

    Sue Gray + team have asked some Downing St officials to hand over phones, per a government source

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1484576577048485899

    😆 anything on a phone is long gone.
    Non-technical people, in the world of default cloud backup, and social media? Ha Ha.. There are 137 billion copies of those photos out there, for sure.

    It's almost as funny as the people who think that Bitcoin guarantees anonymity.

    Then again, some people have been claiming that No 10 is a no personal phone zone. So does this mean *official* phones?
    But it’s not on the phone though? She’ll need more than asking to see the phone is my point.

    When someone says they didn’t see an email, can the server logs prove they are lying?

    Ditto, if anything is deleted?
    I'd be extremely doubtful about trying to delete an email. You'd want to erase the HD of every server and client that ever had sight of it. Only way to be sure.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,005

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......

    Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
    I know this one...

    An optimist says that the glass is half full.

    A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.

    An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

    We need more engineers!
  • ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    So, we should ban posters who call for other posts to be banned?
    I reckon we should ban posters who ask whether posters who call for other posters to be banned should be banned.
    But then there'd be no-one to do site tech upkeep.
    I have no desire to frequent any board that allows the likes of me to keep posting
    It's a political blog. You're supposed to quote Karl, not Groucho.
    Groucho was a great reader and his political philosophy that all politicians are clueless batshit crazy morons has stood the test of time far better than 'Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt Euch!'

    I mean, people still watch Duck Soup and A Night at the Opera.

    Are you following me? Well, stop following me or I'll have you arrested.
    We are so far off thread now that I'll mention my favorite Groucho story.

    Apparently he was a great admirer of TS Eliot. The poet likewise loved Groucho's films, and invited him to dinner. Apparently it was a disaster because all Groucho wanted to do was talk about poetry, and Eliot...well you've got it.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Is that called a Rose?

    That's not the subject but it can be now if you want it.
    Works for me. The coffee pot is on!
    Well just so you know a mix of champagne and shiraz isn't Rose. Rose's a certain type of grape.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,848

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
    What do you suppose we should do about it.
    Who's we?

    If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
    Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.

    Not your flavour? Fair enough.

    Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Applicant said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Applicant said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.
    F*** me! French!

    Have we rejoined?
    The most populous Francophone city is not in the EU...
    Canada presumably - I'll go Toronto
    I doubt Toronto qualifies as French is a minority language even though the country is officially bilingual.

    The list I have has Montreal at number 4 (Paris at 2).
    So London doesn't count? Shame, everyone knows it number 2 on that list.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,340

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......

    Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
    I know this one...

    An optimist says that the glass is half full.

    A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.

    An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

    We need more engineers!
    But not in the NHS, please.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    I'm sort of impressed at the news cycle in this country, which has apparently finally decided that as it can only think of two things at the same time then now that, with the travails of Boris occupying one slot and the fact that we can essentially stop talking about covid in the other slot, we can actually start to talk about the likelihood Russia is about to invade Ukraine despite the fact folk have been pointing out for several months this was A Thing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Amazing to think that some PBers are still unwilling to admit that the South Africans were dismissed in December. They absolutely were dismissed. Better to admit it and move on rather than swear white is black.

    I bow to your authoritarian desire that your belief is king.

    Even when you're wrong.
    I’m often wrong.

    And when I am, I always admit it openly on here, unlike most PBers.

    But I was right in this case, and you were wrong.

    You were wrong then, and you are wrong now.

    Better to admit it than pompously pretend otherwise.
    Yes

    Most of us could list a dozen serious possible confounders which meant Omicron might be worse news for the UK, without drawing breath. You don't give the impression of understanding what a confounder is

    And as for pomposity, no other poster has had the self important effrontery to demand that OGH should permanently pin a particularly bloviatory example of their output to the top of the site. A real first.
    Nevertheless, the South African Medical Association told us, repeatedly, emphatically, that omicron was milder. And they were right.

    And yet when Whitty stood up in front of the UK public he said everything we knew about omicron was bad.

    Which wasn’t true.

    But this is getting boring now. It seems those PBers who argued then that we should have moved to Plan B, thus writing millions off the hospitality trade, will forever deny that they were wrong.

    C’est la vie.

    Scott_xP said:

    It is understood scores of photos were taken during that night.

    In general hard evidence of events could complicate Downing Street’s defence - esp on whether they were work events.

    Sue Gray + team have asked some Downing St officials to hand over phones, per a government source

    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1484576577048485899

    😆 anything on a phone is long gone.
    Non-technical people, in the world of default cloud backup, and social media? Ha Ha.. There are 137 billion copies of those photos out there, for sure.

    It's almost as funny as the people who think that Bitcoin guarantees anonymity.

    Then again, some people have been claiming that No 10 is a no personal phone zone. So does this mean *official* phones?
    But it’s not on the phone though? She’ll need more than asking to see the phone is my point.

    When someone says they didn’t see an email, can the server logs prove they are lying?

    Ditto, if anything is deleted?
    I'd be extremely doubtful about trying to delete an email. You'd want to erase the HD of every server and client that ever had sight of it. Only way to be sure.
    Good luck deleting all the hourly backups of the mail server too, including the tape backups offline in the safe.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,925
    JBriskin3 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
    How many MPs have heard of PB, let alone how much they could learn from following it.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
    How many MPs have heard of PB, let alone how much they could learn from following it.
    It's well known that Cameron and Brown both love PB - And so far posting we've got NPXMP and Bell.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    JBriskin3 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
    How many MPs have heard of PB, let alone how much they could learn from following it.
    If they follow John Rentoul they'll have picked up a fair few PB articles.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......

    Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
    I know this one...

    An optimist says that the glass is half full.

    A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.

    An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

    We need more engineers!
    No!!! That tus a bl**dy accountant. An engineer would design an auto-resiziong glass
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
    What do you suppose we should do about it.
    Who's we?

    If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
    Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.

    Not your flavour? Fair enough.

    Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
    Possibly not anything in a quiz format in Lammy's case.

    I'll put you down as a politician fan boy.
    Apart from Corbyn of course who twisted your wee arm behind your back and MADE you vote for unserious BJ.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
    What do you suppose we should do about it.
    Who's we?

    If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
    Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.

    Not your flavour? Fair enough.

    Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
    Except the discovery of radium
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243
    edited January 2022

    BBC News - Covid vaccinations: Anti-vaxers use 'crime number' to try to halt jabs
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60083474

    Looks like Meat Loaf could be the most famous anti-vaxxer yet to be felled by COVID - Though not confirmed yet:

    "Meat Loaf died on the evening of January 20, 2022, at the age of 74. No cause of death has been officially announced, but the singer's manager, Michael Greene, confirmed that he was supposed to attend a business dinner earlier that week, but the dinner was cancelled because he was seriously ill with COVID-19. He was surrounded by his wife, Deborah, daughters Pearl and Amanda, and close friends. The singer had been outspoken about COVID, specifically railing against vaccine mandates in Australia and it is unknown if he was vaccinated."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_Loaf#Death
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,327
    Heathener said:

    By the way, I wouldn't want to push this argument all the way but the fact remains that under our electoral system we elect a Member of Parliament. We don't elect a party.

    Hence no requirement for a by-election. The Member of Parliament was elected and is still the same person representing his people.

    While that is true, the reality is most voters vote for a party. Some even vote for their PM choice. I think it is wrong for an mp to switch sides in this way, without giving his/her electors the choice of selecting another Tory/labour etc member. I don’t have an issue when pms change.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Is that called a Rose?

    That's not the subject but it can be now if you want it.
    Works for me. The coffee pot is on!
    Well just so you know a mix of champagne and shiraz isn't Rose. Rose's a certain type of grape.
    Its a plant. The other one is rosé.

    Even I know that
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
    How many MPs have heard of PB, let alone how much they could learn from following it.
    It's well known that Cameron and Brown both love PB - And so far posting we've got NPXMP and Bell.
    Yvette Cooper is thought to have been a prolific poster here once upon a time.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    edited January 2022

    Heathener said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    dixiedean said:

    Must say I’m struggling to parse Leon’s dichotomy. Western superiority complex vs racism. Hmm.

    Glad I'm not the only one having problems following exactly what is being argued about.
    Haven't been following the pile-on on poor Kinabulu, but there is most certainly a distinction between being an ethnocentrist ('my way of life or religion is best') and being a racist ('my race is superior'). For instance, Frederick Douglass the ex-slave AIUI preferred the Christian American life (apart from the racism!) to the pagan life in Africa, but he was no racist.
    Not for the first time it's Fruity Leon's fault. He set a trap - asking me what the modern term for 3rd World is - and I walked right into it by answering. Live and learn.
    I don't know why Leon (Sean T) is allowed to keep causing all this trouble on this site. He's a really unpleasant character who thinks he's funny, constantly winding people up deliberately - usually on the back of alcohol or some other substance(s) - and thinks most of us have the time of day for his proclivities.

    He should face a ban for considerably longer than 24 hours. For the sake of the rest of this forum.
    Now, I'm liberal, but to a degree
    I want ev'rybody to be free

    But I'd draw the line at posters who call for other posters to be banned.
    Can we ban all the posters calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned for calling for people to be banned......

    Actually - what we need are more people who get the question "Is the glass half empty or half full?" right.
    I know this one...

    An optimist says that the glass is half full.

    A pessimist says that the glass is half empty.

    An engineer says that the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

    We need more engineers!
    No!!! That tus a bl**dy accountant. An engineer would design an auto-resiziong glass
    An accountant would be prudent and say the glass is just about half full (or empty).
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,287
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Heathener said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Westminster Voting Intention (Red Wall):

    *Liz Truss as Conservative Leader*

    LAB: 51%
    CON: 29%
    LDM: 7%
    GRN: 6%
    REF: 4%

    via @RedfieldWilton, 19-20 Jan

    Wow. Confirming what I thought.
    I've said before she's crap. Hopefully the Tory membership are stupid enough to elect her as BJ's replacement.
    She's another unserious politician, albeit without afaik the moral vacancy of BJ. Her attempts to do serious statesman (statesperson?) are about as convincing as BJ's, and on the once bitten principle..
    Unserious politician that got elected.
    Golly, has that combo ever happened before?
    What do you suppose we should do about it.
    Who's we?

    If you don't mind politicans being unserious vote for them, if you do mind, don't. Being elected doesn't vouchsafe very much, and discussion of qualifications to be eg pm is open season (or this site wouldn't exist).
    Every politician who makes it onto the ballot paper is intensely serious and has been to get to that point.

    Not your flavour? Fair enough.

    Liz Truss or David Lammy would make mincemeat of you on any chosen topic under the sun.
    You mean the guy who thought Henry VII succeeded Henry VIII?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,577
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
    How many MPs have heard of PB, let alone how much they could learn from following it.
    It's well known that Cameron and Brown both love PB - And so far posting we've got NPXMP and Bell.
    And snowflake.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Is that called a Rose?

    That's not the subject but it can be now if you want it.
    Works for me. The coffee pot is on!
    Well just so you know a mix of champagne and shiraz isn't Rose. Rose's a certain type of grape.
    Bafflingly wrong claim. Shiraz is a grape variety. Rosé is a type of wine which you can in principle make from any red grape
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,353

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    slade said:

    Just a thought. Many PBers know their MP; but how many MPs know their PBers?

    Well my MP isn't @Tissue_Price if that's what you mean.
    How many MPs have heard of PB, let alone how much they could learn from following it.
    It's well known that Cameron and Brown both love PB - And so far posting we've got NPXMP and Bell.
    Yvette Cooper is thought to have been a prolific poster here once upon a time.
    The former notorious MP for Peterborough (no not her) as well.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    IshmaelZ said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Ok... so I am pissed on a mix of champagne and shiraz, but Boris is still a w*****r

    What is tonight;s subject? I started reading it but it made no sense

    Is that called a Rose?

    That's not the subject but it can be now if you want it.
    Works for me. The coffee pot is on!
    Well just so you know a mix of champagne and shiraz isn't Rose. Rose's a certain type of grape.
    Bafflingly wrong claim. Shiraz is a grape variety. Rosé is a type of wine which you can in principle make from any red grape
    Apologies. I was tilted by the concept of a champagne and shiraz mix.
This discussion has been closed.