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Tory MP defects to Labour – politicalbetting.com

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  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    Not disastrous at all. He did break the Brexit logjam, and he did make some pretty good calls on Covid. And the focus on levelling-up was astute. He will go down as a consequential PM who committed hari-kiri in a most bizarre way. A brief blazing meteor of a premiership.

    And, Leon is right, we will miss such an entertainer in high office.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Alistair said:

    boulay said:

    Regardless of Boris being crap I really don’t agree with MPs switching parties like this - really think morally they should trigger a by-election as in most cases they are elected as a member of their original party.

    If they believe that the other party is better for the country then they should have the courage of their convictions that their constituents would agree and vote for them in their new party.

    Would be more honest or fair to resign the whip and act as an Independent IMHO.

    Under FPTP we elect individuals. If we as a nation want to continue with the dreadful system then you have to accept that an individual can switch party at any time for any reason and demanding they put themselves up for re-election means you think FPTP is a sham.
    Theoretically you are right but do you honestly believe that the vast majority of MPs aren’t elected because of the Party that they are telling voters they represent?

    Do you think this MP would be current MP if he had stood as an independent or even more appropriately- would he be the current MP if he had stood as a Labour candidate? Does he have some special genius that attracted the voters of Bury South?

    Well, no…… he was elected as a Tory MP and as I said, if he really believes that he is correct and the voters of his constituency value him above a party, or that he reflects the change in their views then he should have the balls to put it to the test.
    Tiny majority, though, and per the current polls the seat is safe Labour. So all this is doing is reflecting that now rather than putting it off until 2024. It can be viewed as accelerated democracy.
    Accelerated democracy where the constituents don't get to vote. Sounds like the sort of democracy that elected von der Leyen as EU President.
    They will get to vote in 2024. Meanwhile a seat that is clear Labour on current polls has a Labour MP. I get the point about "should have a by-election" but it's not the biggest outrage in the world imo. I'd say the same if the parties were reversed.
    2024 is years away. The people of Bury South deserve to have a say on the person representing them now, given his voting behaviour will now be completely different. They voted for someone with "Conservative and Unionist Party" under their name at the last election.
    If we do 'form over substance' they elected a person - him. Who they still have. Fine. If we do 'substance over form' a seat with a current polling Lab majority has a Lab MP. Fine. So either way - Fine. Or to go back to my more nuanced wording, it's not the biggest outrage in the world. If it were Maldon Essex or something, a safe Tory seat, I'd draw a different conclusion on the 'substance over form' metric. Although of course he'd have been unlikely to have defected in that case. Looks like a piece of seedy careerism to me.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    We missed you yesterday. How is Denmark?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    Nah.

    No-one in London wanted him back, either.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Great to see the Covid theatre nonsense coming to an end.

    End of self isolation for the positive by March, and possibly earlier too.

    I was called all sorts of names when I suggested that a month or two ago. Great to see it happening soon.

    Yes, because a month or two ago it would have been totally inappropriate.

    My wife calls me names if I suggest turning off the heating in February, but suddenly in May she's all for it.
    Nice try but I was saying that at some point next year (now this year) we should be looking to drop the measure and March is quite early this year relatively. This is coming faster than I expected. 👍

    The reaction of a lot of people here was that it would never be appropriate for the legal restriction on isolation for the positive to be dropped. Not that it should only be dropped in March instead.
    Nice try, but this is what you actually said:

    Rip off the bandage, have the virus burn through a vaccinated population and if anyone's unvaccinated then they can claim their Darwin Award on the way out.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3721174#Comment_3721174
  • Heathener said:


    (It's also worth pointing out that much of the country is laughing at the absurdities of Boris Johnson. We've gone from revulsion at what happened to mockery at his responses.)

    If he keeps that up then he will of course survive
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,032
    edited January 2022
    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    IshmaelZ said:

    Selebian said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Great fightback, pretty clear win for Johnson.

    SKS fans please explain.

    I can explain why Boris was handed a clear win, Starmer was self satisfied and complacent and not serious enough in approach to channel the electorates anger and hurt as he done well last week. You get your tone and strategy wrong, you hand the win to the other side and make yourself look bad like he did.

    I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
    I was joking, but I genuinely thought BJ was unexpectedly upbeat. David Davis redressed the balance though

    SKS giving a fairly good part 2 kicking in response to Covid statement, though
    Interested on that last bit (not watching and 'live' reporting hasn't reported that yet). I'd have thought SKS would be on the defensive about that, given that the government has been shown to be right and Labour have been shown to be wrong.
    His basic point, BJ incapable of carrying on business of govt at all
    Ah, thanks. Well, yes, that is a point for all seasons :wink:
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Aaaaaggggghhhh!!!!
    Bury South is not Red Wall.
    It is a classic marginal.

    Whilst I agree it has never been the reddest seat in the red wall, it's also not a "classic marginal" in that it was won by Labour by 7%, 10% and 12% (not ultra-safe of course, but not shabby majorities) in 2010, 2015, and 2017. Indeed, it probably would have been Labour in 2019 had the sitting Labour MP not stood as an independent (he got a derisory vote but enough to make the difference).

    I'd say a classic Con/Lab marginal is one where you'd generally expect the MP to be a governing party MP.
    I'd say it is a classic marginal. David Sumberg won it by small majorities in 1983, 1987 and 1992 for the Tories.
    It's also interesting in that it's one of the most Jewish seats in the country. I'd say this was a big part of its swing against Labour in 2019.
    Ivan Lewis, who was MP from 1997 to 2019 and is Jewish, stood as an independent in 2019 ostensibly in protest at antisemitism (although he'd also been suspended over some sexual harassment allegations so it's a more complex picture). He actually ceased his campaign and endorsed Wakeford in the election, but remained on the ballot drawing in 1,366 votes as well as some presumably who he persuaded over to Wakeford.

    So it is almost certain those issues were enough to make the difference (given majority was 402).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    Nah.

    No-one in London wanted him back, either.
    I thought he was a great London Mayor. Less keen on his PM abilities.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    Roger said:

    Selebian said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Great fightback, pretty clear win for Johnson.

    SKS fans please explain.

    I can explain why Boris was handed a clear win, Starmer was self satisfied and complacent and not serious enough in approach to channel the electorates anger and hurt as he done well last week. You get your tone and strategy wrong, you hand the win to the other side and make yourself look bad like he did.

    I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
    I was joking, but I genuinely thought BJ was unexpectedly upbeat. David Davis redressed the balance though

    SKS giving a fairly good part 2 kicking in response to Covid statement, though
    Interested on that last bit (not watching and 'live' reporting hasn't reported that yet). I'd have thought SKS would be on the defensive about that, given that the government has been shown to be right and Labour have been shown to be wrong.
    My understanding was that Labour were going along with the experts as were the government. i don't believe the public believe Labour had a distinctive Covid policy. PMQs will be noted for two things and only two. Starmer is MUCH better than any of us thought and the DAVID DAVIS MOMENT
    Yep, probably true. Ishmael has explained that it was a general attack. Recent Covid policy is one of the few things it should be hard to attack the government over.
  • Betfred has tweeted that Boris is now 10/11 to leave office between now and the end of March. Other bookmakers are available.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    "Threw Paterson under the bus" - Paterson bloody had it coming. The only complaint is Boris didn't throw him hard enough.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    26m
    What the DD intervention shows is how wide the anger is. It’s not just one faction of the Tory Party. Red Wallers. Spartans. Grandees. They’re all gunning for Boris.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    Nah.

    No-one in London wanted him back, either.
    I'd have him back, actually. His successor wants to charge me for driving to the shops, and has - based on his own words - presided over about a million crises since taking office.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation = 5.4%, highest since 1992.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60050699

    How much did it shoot up by this time?

    Where’s @Eek?

    minuscule uptick in inflation (making highest since headlines look true but misleading the actual story).

    Is this business media 1 Eek 0?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    boulay said:

    Not entirely sure Davis’s intervention is a positive for those who want Boris out.

    He’s a preening prima donna and there might be a fair fee Tories who think that whilst they want to get rid of Boris but not because DD said something unoriginal and they certainly won’t want his giant oversized head floating forever as the Howe to Boris.

    I think if another senior/respected Tory who didn’t have the same history as Davis had done it then it would have been a killer blow.

    I take the point re Davis but for an MP on a Prime Ministers own side, in a febrile and highly charged occasion, to stand up and use those words, so full of gravity and history, is devastating no matter who utters them.

    If I were a senior Tory now I’d really accept that there’s no putting the genie back in the bottle and I’d be starting to gather the grey suits. Maybe I am misreading the situation, but this has the feelings to me of those crazy days in 1990 about it. They’re all ready to move*. They just need the spark to ignite the powder keg. And maybe that was it.

    *the only unknown in this being the cabinet as I mentioned above. But it’s cause and effect, so if this really is the start of a big move against the PM the cabinet will need to shift quickly. I can imagine they are starting to prepare their “I would support you to the end of the world and back, but you won’t win this one” speeches.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    David Davis wasn’t on the list for PMQs - Stephen Kinnock was the last, so Davis was lucky:

    https://commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/document/53490/html#_idTextAnchor003
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one. Perhaps feel sorry for him, must have been torment for him.

    Wonder why he didn't get off at the first stop the LibDems?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    The papers were totally wrong about the masks – @maarsh and @MaxPB were absolutely right. Kudos.

    Indeed. I have to say I wished I had been as bullish as Maarsh and Max. I meekly pointed out that the masks would expire with the rest of Plan B with the relevant SI next Weds unless it was updated and I couldn't possibly see how that could happen with any Parliamentary scrutiny at the current time. Should have been more confident in my prediction,
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Stocky said:

    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one. Perhaps feel sorry for him, must have been torment for him.

    Wonder why he didn't get off at the first stop the LibDems?
    Because he wants to keep his seat.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    How on Earth does the PM survive this?
    What exactly is his way back to being taken even halfway seriously, let alone running the country?
    Boris backers please explain.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Alistair said:

    boulay said:

    Regardless of Boris being crap I really don’t agree with MPs switching parties like this - really think morally they should trigger a by-election as in most cases they are elected as a member of their original party.

    If they believe that the other party is better for the country then they should have the courage of their convictions that their constituents would agree and vote for them in their new party.

    Would be more honest or fair to resign the whip and act as an Independent IMHO.

    Under FPTP we elect individuals. If we as a nation want to continue with the dreadful system then you have to accept that an individual can switch party at any time for any reason and demanding they put themselves up for re-election means you think FPTP is a sham.
    Theoretically you are right but do you honestly believe that the vast majority of MPs aren’t elected because of the Party that they are telling voters they represent?

    Do you think this MP would be current MP if he had stood as an independent or even more appropriately- would he be the current MP if he had stood as a Labour candidate? Does he have some special genius that attracted the voters of Bury South?

    Well, no…… he was elected as a Tory MP and as I said, if he really believes that he is correct and the voters of his constituency value him above a party, or that he reflects the change in their views then he should have the balls to put it to the test.
    Tiny majority, though, and per the current polls the seat is safe Labour. So all this is doing is reflecting that now rather than putting it off until 2024. It can be viewed as accelerated democracy.
    Accelerated democracy where the constituents don't get to vote. Sounds like the sort of democracy that elected von der Leyen as EU President.
    They will get to vote in 2024. Meanwhile a seat that is clear Labour on current polls has a Labour MP. I get the point about "should have a by-election" but it's not the biggest outrage in the world imo. I'd say the same if the parties were reversed.
    2024 is years away. The people of Bury South deserve to have a say on the person representing them now, given his voting behaviour will now be completely different. They voted for someone with "Conservative and Unionist Party" under their name at the last election.
    If we do 'form over substance' they elected a person - him. Who they still have. Fine. If we do 'substance over form' a seat with a current polling Lab majority has a Lab MP. Fine. So either way - Fine. Or to go back to my more nuanced wording, it's not the biggest outrage in the world. If it were Maldon Essex or something, a safe Tory seat, I'd draw a different conclusion on the 'substance over form' metric. Although of course he'd have been unlikely to have defected in that case. Looks like a piece of seedy careerism to me.
    They elected a person that was part of a party. Both his name and the party he belonged to were described on the ballot paper. It is seedy careerism indeed and the voters deserve to have their say. Some of us care a lot about democracy and some of us have a more elitist view of the world.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Betfred has tweeted that Boris is now 10/11 to leave office between now and the end of March. Other bookmakers are available.

    Shit, that has shortened must further and faster than my expectation. You could get 3/1 yesterday
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Red Wallers, Brexiteers, shires and Scots, arch critics and ex-supporters - figures in every pocket of the party are going over the top and saying: 'It's time'. https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1483789968342454272?s=20
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    All that can be true - heck, half of it surely is true - and yet I still believe we will miss him, more than many expect. Even you

    He is a huge figure in British politics. His bombastic but upbeat personality has dominated our politics for years, he is the guy that won the Brexit referendum, then got Brexit done, then steered us through the plague - first badly, then rather well. He makes people laugh (or he used to), he dwarfs everyone else in terms of colourful character. He is a one man walking soap opera, he always gets reactions, he is infuriating, funny, strange, blonde, idiotic, forceful, mendacious, clever, stupid, brilliant, surprisingly short, priapic, knackered, vivid, pitiful, and speaks ancient Greek. He is BORIS. The whole country knows him by his first name, not true of any other politician of the day.

    When he goes - and that will surely be soon - he will leave a huge psychological void. He will be replaced by relative midgets (character-wise), droning on as most politicians do. And one day after his exit even his haters might find themselves missing that blonde clown who could tell a joke.

    He is an entertainer, and we will miss the entertainment.
    We've still got Ant and Dec.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Inside the room: Boris Johnson was 'close to tears' as he pleaded with Tory MPs to halt 'pork pie plot'. By @Tony_Diver. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/01/19/inside-room-boris-johnson-close-tears-pleaded-tory-mps-halt/
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    DougSeal said:

    Stocky said:

    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one. Perhaps feel sorry for him, must have been torment for him.

    Wonder why he didn't get off at the first stop the LibDems?
    Because he wants to keep his seat.
    Err, yes. Quite.

    Listen to us two cynics!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    All that can be true - heck, half of it surely is true - and yet I still believe we will miss him, more than many expect. Even you

    He is a huge figure in British politics. His bombastic but upbeat personality has dominated our politics for years, he is the guy that won the Brexit referendum, then got Brexit done, then steered us through the plague - first badly, then rather well. He makes people laugh (or he used to), he dwarfs everyone else in terms of colourful character. He is a one man walking soap opera, he always gets reactions, he is infuriating, funny, strange, blonde, idiotic, forceful, mendacious, clever, stupid, brilliant, surprisingly short, priapic, knackered, vivid, pitiful, and speaks ancient Greek. He is BORIS. The whole country knows him by his first name, not true of any other politician of the day.

    When he goes - and that will surely be soon - he will leave a huge psychological void. He will be replaced by relative midgets (character-wise), droning on as most politicians do. And one day after his exit even his haters might find themselves missing that blonde clown who could tell a joke.

    He is an entertainer, and we will miss the entertainment.
    It appears you are easily entertained.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Our MP was elected to represent our town and our people. Yesterday, Christian Wakeford let down the people claiming Universal Credit. That's a cut of £1000 per year for 17000 families across #Bury.
    #cancelthecut


    https://twitter.com/BurySouthCLP/status/1351429061797666817?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    Not disastrous at all. He did break the Brexit logjam, and he did make some pretty good calls on Covid. And the focus on levelling-up was astute. He will go down as a consequential PM who committed hari-kiri in a most bizarre way. A brief blazing meteor of a premiership.

    And, Leon is right, we will miss such an entertainer in high office.
    I truly won't. Having a guy like this as our PM bugged me terribly. I hated what it said about this country that I love.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    MaxPB said:

    Tory friend - "dagger in the back for Boris" - he's hoping for a dignified exit but thinks Boris is going to throw a toddler tantrum and will have to be forced out.

    In the back ?
    I think his MPs are ready for a frontal assault.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation = 5.4%, highest since 1992.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60050699

    How much did it shoot up by this time?

    Where’s @Eek?

    minuscule uptick in inflation (making highest since headlines look true but misleading the actual story).

    Is this business media 1 Eek 0?
    Do you understand how inflation is calculated in the UK.

    What matters isn't what it does month on month but what it does year on year.

    And May / June's figure isn't going to be 5.4% it's going to be way higher.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    All that can be true - heck, half of it surely is true - and yet I still believe we will miss him, more than many expect. Even you

    He is a huge figure in British politics. His bombastic but upbeat personality has dominated our politics for years, he is the guy that won the Brexit referendum, then got Brexit done, then steered us through the plague - first badly, then rather well. He makes people laugh (or he used to), he dwarfs everyone else in terms of colourful character. He is a one man walking soap opera, he always gets reactions, he is infuriating, funny, strange, blonde, idiotic, forceful, mendacious, clever, stupid, brilliant, surprisingly short, priapic, knackered, vivid, pitiful, and speaks ancient Greek. He is BORIS. The whole country knows him by his first name, not true of any other politician of the day.

    When he goes - and that will surely be soon - he will leave a huge psychological void. He will be replaced by relative midgets (character-wise), droning on as most politicians do. And one day after his exit even his haters might find themselves missing that blonde clown who could tell a joke.

    He is an entertainer, and we will miss the entertainment.
    Same with Peter Kay.
    Fortunately he isn't PM. Although couldn't be a lot worse.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Leo Amery was quoting Oliver Cromwell addressing the Rump Parliament btw, everybody seems to think he was the original source
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Stocky said:

    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one.
    It doesn't make sense to me either, but I wouldn't pretend to know what, or more importantly, how he thinks.

    One of our local Labour district councillors jumped ship to the Conservatives a couple of years back. She was despairing of the local CLP, thought she could get more done for her ward and for the district by being a Conservative (it's blue-rosette country), and didn't really see the ideology of the parties as a big thing - I think she said "I've always been centre-right anyway". She's now a cabinet member on the council and seems to be ok at it.

    Mind you, she was quoted in the Guardian the other day saying that she thought Johnson should go...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    dixiedean said:

    How on Earth does the PM survive this?
    What exactly is his way back to being taken even halfway seriously, let alone running the country?
    Boris backers please explain.

    By clinging on like a limpet, in the hope that the letters don't get to 54 (53?), if they do he survives the vote, and then a war breaks out so he can do his Churchill Cosplay.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    We being Leon, Eadric, Byronic, LadyG etc.
    Vlad was here so briefly that it's hard to know what were his/her/their feelings towards BJ.
    You missed another I suspect (apol if I'm wrong). I wish @Lion_of_Penarth would re-appear with his hilarious nonsense.
    Hysterical nonsense. It’s hysterical nonsense. As he himself said.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited January 2022
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Great to see the Covid theatre nonsense coming to an end.

    End of self isolation for the positive by March, and possibly earlier too.

    I was called all sorts of names when I suggested that a month or two ago. Great to see it happening soon.

    Yes, because a month or two ago it would have been totally inappropriate.

    My wife calls me names if I suggest turning off the heating in February, but suddenly in May she's all for it.
    Nice try but I was saying that at some point next year (now this year) we should be looking to drop the measure and March is quite early this year relatively. This is coming faster than I expected. 👍

    The reaction of a lot of people here was that it would never be appropriate for the legal restriction on isolation for the positive to be dropped. Not that it should only be dropped in March instead.
    Nice try, but this is what you actually said:

    Rip off the bandage, have the virus burn through a vaccinated population and if anyone's unvaccinated then they can claim their Darwin Award on the way out.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3721174#Comment_3721174
    That's far from the only post I ever made and is not what I was referring to since self isolation wasn't even mentioned in that post or the one I was replying to.

    And I stand by that comment 100%.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    Not disastrous at all. He did break the Brexit logjam, and he did make some pretty good calls on Covid. And the focus on levelling-up was astute. He will go down as a consequential PM who committed hari-kiri in a most bizarre way. A brief blazing meteor of a premiership.

    And, Leon is right, we will miss such an entertainer in high office.
    If so, it’ll be for bad reasons.
  • dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    No I did not say that

    It is just I do not rate him, and do you disagree with the points I have made
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Farooq said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Yes, the Starmer crisis is all the talk right now. How long can he cling on?
    And of course Tony Blair's self satisfied demeanour and body language were fatal to his ambition.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    edited January 2022

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation = 5.4%, highest since 1992.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60050699

    How much did it shoot up by this time?

    Where’s @Eek?

    minuscule uptick in inflation (making highest since headlines look true but misleading the actual story).

    Is this business media 1 Eek 0?
    The only thing misleading about the headline inflation rate is that it probably understates the effect on those on average earnings.

    5.4% year on year inflation is in no way minuscule.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    He is an entertainer, and we will miss the entertainment.
    No we really won't.

    Maybe if you're the kind of author who sells sex tips and jaunts around the world, you'll miss him.

    But for most people with serious matters to deal with on a daily basis, we don't want a song and dance man in No. 10. Thanks. Especially not at the moment.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill, against almost every climate change measure.

    Labour is a Democratic Socialist Party CW like SKS is not
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Great to see the Covid theatre nonsense coming to an end.

    End of self isolation for the positive by March, and possibly earlier too.

    I was called all sorts of names when I suggested that a month or two ago. Great to see it happening soon.

    Yes, because a month or two ago it would have been totally inappropriate.

    My wife calls me names if I suggest turning off the heating in February, but suddenly in May she's all for it.
    Nice try but I was saying that at some point next year (now this year) we should be looking to drop the measure and March is quite early this year relatively. This is coming faster than I expected. 👍

    The reaction of a lot of people here was that it would never be appropriate for the legal restriction on isolation for the positive to be dropped. Not that it should only be dropped in March instead.
    Nice try, but this is what you actually said:

    Rip off the bandage, have the virus burn through a vaccinated population and if anyone's unvaccinated then they can claim their Darwin Award on the way out.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3721174#Comment_3721174
    That's far from the only post I ever made and is not what I was referring to since self isolation wasn't even mentioned in that post or the one I was replying to.

    And I stand by that comment 100%.
    It’s not a thoughtful, caring comment.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Leo Amery was quoting Oliver Cromwell addressing the Rump Parliament btw, everybody seems to think he was the original source

    Everyone thinks that a leading biographer of Winston Churchill will have recognised it, and that he lied when claiming not to. (hmm. It does not seem to be mentioned in Boris's book.)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    All that can be true - heck, half of it surely is true - and yet I still believe we will miss him, more than many expect. Even you

    He is a huge figure in British politics. His bombastic but upbeat personality has dominated our politics for years, he is the guy that won the Brexit referendum, then got Brexit done, then steered us through the plague - first badly, then rather well. He makes people laugh (or he used to), he dwarfs everyone else in terms of colourful character. He is a one man walking soap opera, he always gets reactions, he is infuriating, funny, strange, blonde, idiotic, forceful, mendacious, clever, stupid, brilliant, surprisingly short, priapic, knackered, vivid, pitiful, and speaks ancient Greek. He is BORIS. The whole country knows him by his first name, not true of any other politician of the day.

    When he goes - and that will surely be soon - he will leave a huge psychological void. He will be replaced by relative midgets (character-wise), droning on as most politicians do. And one day after his exit even his haters might find themselves missing that blonde clown who could tell a joke.

    He is an entertainer, and we will miss the entertainment.
    Same with Peter Kay.
    Fortunately he isn't PM. Although couldn't be a lot worse.
    Beat up on him as you like - Leon is a really magnificent observer. We don't care so much about his life, but when he looks elsewhere it's very interesting. Brushes over the realm are queing up to have their daft opinions considered though.
  • Farooq said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Yes, the Starmer crisis is all the talk right now. How long can he cling on?
    And we all know what Wakeford rhymes with..
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Stocky said:

    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one. Perhaps feel sorry for him, must have been torment for him.

    Wonder why he didn't get off at the first stop the LibDems?
    I think we can safely say that the LibDems aren’t going to win in Bury.

    The mystery is, if he’s such a venal and self-serving scoundrel, he wasn’t happy working for Boris?
  • I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill, against almost every climate change measure.

    Labour is a Democratic Socialist Party CW like SKS is not
    This is relevant

    https://twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/1483776856134410242?t=y-XOEsEVuzAKG0U9ds-gOA&s=19
  • OldBasingOldBasing Posts: 173

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    All most voters will hear from the news is; 'Tory MP defects to Labour' and 'Tory MP tells Boris to resign.' Starmer has nothing to worry about from today's performance.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour.


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    tim needs to come back.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    No I did not say that

    It is just I do not rate him, and do you disagree with the points I have made
    I agree with your take, largely

    I expected Boris to crumble, in a silent Commons, after that awful Sky interview. He didn't, at all

    And this is partly because Starmer was overly smug with his laboured jokes and scripted put-downs. Mannered. There is a lot of vanity in Starmer - look at the way he tends to his hair, so carefully - and it was visible today

    Despite all that Starmer won the duel (how could he not) and the David Davis intervention plus the defection means it is, yet again, All About Boris

    Starmer is mediocre, but Boris is self-destructing
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523


    It is an absolute disgrace a man with this voting record is happily seated behind Starmer and welcomed in to todays Labour Party

    He's been a loyalist, and anyone who normally votes with their party has some uncomfortable moments (said he with some feeling), but if they didn't usually do that party government would collapse.

    Anyway, haven't you said you plan to vote Tory yourself in protest against Starmer's centrism?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Omnium said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    You are. I'm not.

    The worst PM of my lifetime. Totally unsuited for this crisis. Actually unsuited for any office. A chaotic, appalling, lying, opportunistic, thoroughly nasty piece of work who threw Paterson under the bus and habitually shafts people.

    If he's the sort of person you like, Sean, then you're welcome to him. The rest of us will move on and look back on this as the most disastrous premiership of our lives.
    All that can be true - heck, half of it surely is true - and yet I still believe we will miss him, more than many expect. Even you

    He is a huge figure in British politics. His bombastic but upbeat personality has dominated our politics for years, he is the guy that won the Brexit referendum, then got Brexit done, then steered us through the plague - first badly, then rather well. He makes people laugh (or he used to), he dwarfs everyone else in terms of colourful character. He is a one man walking soap opera, he always gets reactions, he is infuriating, funny, strange, blonde, idiotic, forceful, mendacious, clever, stupid, brilliant, surprisingly short, priapic, knackered, vivid, pitiful, and speaks ancient Greek. He is BORIS. The whole country knows him by his first name, not true of any other politician of the day.

    When he goes - and that will surely be soon - he will leave a huge psychological void. He will be replaced by relative midgets (character-wise), droning on as most politicians do. And one day after his exit even his haters might find themselves missing that blonde clown who could tell a joke.

    He is an entertainer, and we will miss the entertainment.
    Same with Peter Kay.
    Fortunately he isn't PM. Although couldn't be a lot worse.
    Beat up on him as you like - Leon is a really magnificent observer. We don't care so much about his life, but when he looks elsewhere it's very interesting...
    He is indeed.
    He also writes hyperbollocks on a regular basis.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    DougSeal said:

    dixiedean said:

    How on Earth does the PM survive this?
    What exactly is his way back to being taken even halfway seriously, let alone running the country?
    Boris backers please explain.

    By clinging on like a limpet, in the hope that the letters don't get to 54 (53?), if they do he survives the vote, and then a war breaks out so he can do his Churchill Cosplay.
    War didn’t play much today.

    I’m pleased because I told my Dad is wrong that the leadership election is postponed for the war, based what I think after discussion on PB. Not often I’m right and he is wrong on Conservative politics.
    Mind you he’s not actually wrong yet.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    IanB2 said:

    Stocky said:

    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one. Perhaps feel sorry for him, must have been torment for him.

    Wonder why he didn't get off at the first stop the LibDems?
    I think we can safely say that the LibDems aren’t going to win in Bury.

    The mystery is, if he’s such a venal and self-serving scoundrel, he wasn’t happy working for Boris?
    Yes indeed. And we could ponder if the public hadn't fell out with Johnson would he have defected anyway? Hmmm, a head-scratcher.
  • Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    Nah.

    No-one in London wanted him back, either.
    I thought he was a great London Mayor. Less keen on his PM abilities.
    Until he cancelled the East London River Crossing....
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited January 2022

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Great to see the Covid theatre nonsense coming to an end.

    End of self isolation for the positive by March, and possibly earlier too.

    I was called all sorts of names when I suggested that a month or two ago. Great to see it happening soon.

    Yes, because a month or two ago it would have been totally inappropriate.

    My wife calls me names if I suggest turning off the heating in February, but suddenly in May she's all for it.
    Nice try but I was saying that at some point next year (now this year) we should be looking to drop the measure and March is quite early this year relatively. This is coming faster than I expected. 👍

    The reaction of a lot of people here was that it would never be appropriate for the legal restriction on isolation for the positive to be dropped. Not that it should only be dropped in March instead.
    Nice try, but this is what you actually said:

    Rip off the bandage, have the virus burn through a vaccinated population and if anyone's unvaccinated then they can claim their Darwin Award on the way out.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3721174#Comment_3721174
    That's far from the only post I ever made and is not what I was referring to since self isolation wasn't even mentioned in that post or the one I was replying to.

    And I stand by that comment 100%.
    You are, of course, right. That is indeed far from the only post you ever made.

    Alright, here's you a short while later, talking quite clearly about testing and enforced isolation (emphasis mine):

    Its (sic) restrictions telling people to test and isolate etc that are causing more damage now than the virus itself. End the restrictions, the problem goes away.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3721385#Comment_3721385
  • OldBasing said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    All most voters will hear from the news is; 'Tory MP defects to Labour' and 'Tory MP tells Boris to resign.' Starmer has nothing to worry about from today's performance.
    I agree and that is not the point I am making

    Furthermore I do not rate Starmer and at this moment in time if I had to vote I would either abstain or vote Lib Dem
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,277
    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    I've always liked Boris personally- especially pre-Covid, fun Boris! It's been quite a ride these past few years... I'll miss him.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    I don't think any PB Tory has said any of those things. Some on the left, however...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    No I did not say that

    It is just I do not rate him, and do you disagree with the points I have made
    I agree with your take, largely

    I expected Boris to crumble, in a silent Commons, after that awful Sky interview. He didn't, at all

    And this is partly because Starmer was overly smug with his laboured jokes and scripted put-downs. Mannered. There is a lot of vanity in Starmer - look at the way he tends to his hair, so carefully - and it was visible today

    Despite all that Starmer won the duel (how could he not) and the David Davis intervention plus the defection means it is, yet again, All About Boris

    Starmer is mediocre, but Boris is self-destructing
    Astute summing up.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    It's a great day for Starmer in and of itself, but he ideally would want Johnson to hang on long enough to properly tarnish the brand. Today looks like the beginning of the end.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    Farooq said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Yes, the Starmer crisis is all the talk right now. How long can he cling on?
    And we all know what Wakeford rhymes with..
    Not all
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Sir Keir is fully aware of Gary Neville's views on covid restrictions, has spoken to him at length about them, and raised the fact that they debated the matter as a positive during his, Keir's, recent appearance on the Nick Ferrari show. He said he preferred to be challenged by colleagues than have their sycophantic agreement.

    As you clearly can't be bothered to check the basic contentions in your posts before publishing them, I'm not sure it's worthwhile reading the rest of your mutterings!
  • Stocky said:

    Aslan said:

    Stocky said:

    Guido: "in 2020 Christian Wakeford co-sponsored and voted for a private members bill that would “enable the recall of Members of the House of Commons who voluntarily change their political party affiliation; and for connected purposes.” "

    Keeps two jobs. Heavy expenses user. Writes one way and votes the other. Changes party to keep his MP salary. Refuses to let his constituents have their say after they no longer have the "Christian Wakeford, Conservative and Unionist Party" they voted for, despite previously supporting the principle. The man is just awful.
    He must be having psychological issues to move from a party founded on one ideology to a completely different one. Perhaps feel sorry for him, must have been torment for him.

    Wonder why he didn't get off at the first stop the LibDems?
    LibDems? Who are they?
  • As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    Exactly my post pmqs comments
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    Nah.

    No-one in London wanted him back, either.
    I thought he was a great London Mayor. Less keen on his PM abilities.
    Until he cancelled the East London River Crossing....
    A YouGov poll commissioned at the end of his second term...

    - that 52% of Londoners believed he did a "good job" as Mayor of London
    - 29% believed he did a "bad job"
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    The sweeping away of all restrictions, including masks, is a big win and a quite radical move. Who else is doing that ?

    Anywhere?


  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill, against almost every climate change measure.

    Labour is a Democratic Socialist Party CW like SKS is not
    I've got some sympathy with your view, although on balance it would be foolish to turn down defections.

    However, if he doesn't genuinely repent, would it be possible for Bury South CLP to deselect him in advance of the GE? That would be fun.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Farooq said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Yes, the Starmer crisis is all the talk right now. How long can he cling on?
    And we all know what Wakeford rhymes with..
    image

    😁.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    Exactly my post pmqs comments
    Not a mistake. They want Johnson to stay. The longer he stays the better it is for Labour. They want to fight him at the next election if at all possible. The sooner he goes the quicker someone else comes in and this blows over. They want this to run and run and run.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,779

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    That's not a mistake. The longer this drags out, the more Johnson tarnishes the Tory brand and the less his successor has to build on. The worst (plausible) outcome for Labour now is a rapid Johnson exit.
  • As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    Yes, Labour will be gutted to see this Tory crisis extended into next week. That's the LAST thing they want.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    I don't think any PB Tory has said any of those things. Some on the left, however...
    Er... paging Big G!!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    I don't think any PB Tory has said any of those things. Some on the left, however...
    Er... paging Big G!!!
    He's already responded to dixiedean's comment. He hasn't said any of those three things.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    Sir Keir is fully aware of Gary Neville's views on covid restrictions, has spoken to him at length about them, and raised the fact that they debated the matter as a positive during his, Keir's, recent appearance on the Nick Ferrari show. He said he preferred to be challenged by colleagues than have their sycophantic agreement.

    As you clearly can't be bothered to check the basic contentions in your posts before publishing them, I'm not sure it's worthwhile reading the rest of your mutterings!
    Neville also has quite a good track record on Labour issues, not least being shop steward.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited January 2022

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    No I did not say that

    It is just I do not rate him, and do you disagree with the points I have made
    Yes, your point about Gary Neville is third hand and wrong. Starmer was joking about Neville being in the Cabinet. You remember jokes? Read the transcript, if you doubt it.

    Mind you, you've reminded me of my favourite comment on here in days, when our redoubtable Epping friend pointed out that "Gary Neville is no Winston Churchill"Who'd have thought it?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    DougSeal said:

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    Exactly my post pmqs comments
    Not a mistake. They want Johnson to stay. The longer he stays the better it is for Labour. They want to fight him at the next election if at all possible. The sooner he goes the quicker someone else comes in and this blows over. They want this to run and run and run.
    Wasn't this the same sort of reason as to when Labour won Batley and Spen i.e. it's actually good news for the Conservatives because it meant Starmer remained as leader?

    Things turn. BJ probably is finished but then we said the same things about Starmer a year back. If there is one thing it generally has been wrong to do is to write off Johnson.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Omnium said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour.


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    tim needs to come back.
    Absolutely. One of PB's all time greats. I wonder what he makes of this farrago?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Great to see the Covid theatre nonsense coming to an end.

    End of self isolation for the positive by March, and possibly earlier too.

    I was called all sorts of names when I suggested that a month or two ago. Great to see it happening soon.

    Yes, because a month or two ago it would have been totally inappropriate.

    My wife calls me names if I suggest turning off the heating in February, but suddenly in May she's all for it.
    Nice try but I was saying that at some point next year (now this year) we should be looking to drop the measure and March is quite early this year relatively. This is coming faster than I expected. 👍

    The reaction of a lot of people here was that it would never be appropriate for the legal restriction on isolation for the positive to be dropped. Not that it should only be dropped in March instead.
    Nice try, but this is what you actually said:

    Rip off the bandage, have the virus burn through a vaccinated population and if anyone's unvaccinated then they can claim their Darwin Award on the way out.

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/3721174#Comment_3721174
    That's far from the only post I ever made and is not what I was referring to since self isolation wasn't even mentioned in that post or the one I was replying to.

    And I stand by that comment 100%.
    With this 2 year pandemic drawing to a close, remaining restrictions clearly on their way out in just a short time, you started jumping up and down and yelling like a maniac about "liberty" in order to shore up your libertarian credentials which you feared tarnished by supporting the earlier lockdowns.

    You were like a fan of a football club who'd drifted away, then when the team has got to the Cup Final, leading 3-0 with 10 mins left, you come charging into the ground with your club scarf and beanie on, roaring for subs and chasing a 4th.
  • Omnium said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    We're gonna miss Boris. You read it here first

    Nah.

    No-one in London wanted him back, either.
    I thought he was a great London Mayor. Less keen on his PM abilities.
    Until he cancelled the East London River Crossing....
    A YouGov poll commissioned at the end of his second term...

    - that 52% of Londoners believed he did a "good job" as Mayor of London
    - 29% believed he did a "bad job"
    The East London River Crossing would have massively simplified journeys between Newham and Barking on the north bank of the Thames to Bexley and Greenwich on the south bank.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 882

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    Yes, Labour will be gutted to see this Tory crisis extended into next week. That's the LAST thing they want.
    This is the thing for me. Starmer has very little agency in forcing Boris's resignation. That is the singular responsibility and pleasure of the Conservative Party.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    If Wakeford asked him, which he probably did, what's Starmo supposed to say: "Er no, not yet, can't it wait until next week?"

    In any case, I think the timing's great. If the ditherers and no-marks who keep threatening letters grow a pair, they'll send in the letters. If they don't, they won't. Not much Keir or anyone else on the Opposition benches can do about that.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    Omnium said:

    dixiedean said:

    I would just like to comment on Starmer

    Today at pmqs he had all the ammunition and much more to near fatally wound Boris and while he made some good jokes his self satisfied demeanour and body language were maybe not a good look

    He welcomed Gary Neville into labour and made the extraordinary suggestion he could became a shadow minister which in itself is ridiculous without knowing Neville's views which ironically include being against all covid restrictions

    Today he had Wakeford sit immediately behind him and extolled his defection to labour, while Wakeford wore a union jack face mask and supports right wing conservative policies. No wonder some in labour are far from impressed

    In my opinion Starmer is trying to hard and is not receiving the best advice

    So. You're calling today a bad day for Starmer?
    • A Tory MP defecting to Labour is bad for Labour

    • David Davis knifing Boris is bad for Labour

    • Starmer brimming with confidence and being funny at PMQs is bad for Labour.


    Only from the PB Tories.


    Only on PB.


    (With credit to @tim)
    tim needs to come back.
    Absolutely. One of PB's all time greats. I wonder what he makes of this farrago?
    He'll be angry :)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited January 2022

    As I said earlier. Tactical mistake by Labour to do this today:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    3m
    Sense amongst Tory MPs is Wakeford defection may have pushed the crisis into next week. “Think they’ll wait for Sue Gray now” one tells me.

    Tactical mistake, but strategic good move.
    Drags the story out. Tories divided still. Will he won't he go? is the news for yet another week at least.
    I've noted before that the PM is all tactics and no strategy.
    Beginning to think Starmer might be the exact opposite.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Farooq said:

    In a bold political development, Boris Johnson has accidentally set himself on fire and fallen down a dried-up well. Join us at 6 where we will be joined by Dan Hodges to discuss whether Starmer can survive this fresh blow to his leadership.

    :D
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Inflation = 5.4%, highest since 1992.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60050699

    How much did it shoot up by this time?

    Where’s @Eek?

    minuscule uptick in inflation (making highest since headlines look true but misleading the actual story).

    Is this business media 1 Eek 0?
    The only thing misleading about the headline inflation rate is that it probably understates the effect on those on average earnings.

    5.4% year on year inflation is in no way minuscule.
    How much did it leap up by?

    I reported Business and Financial media now convinced inflation is going to be just a blip not big player in credit crunch. Eek disagreed. Do I add you to list of disagreeing?
This discussion has been closed.