One of those PMQs today where almost everywhere you look you see smug arrogant knobheads. Johnson looking at his watch was a particular low point and will boil the blood of anyone who made real sacrifices in the last two years. Meanwhile Starmer looked entirely too pleased with himself.
https://twitter.com/YoungLabourUK/status/1483774774350422016 Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill. Young Labour does not welcome him.
They're right
The Lib Dem party also had some issues with some of the labour defectors before 2019 election for their wrongthink too.
Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill. Young Labour does not welcome him. 12:14 PM · Jan 19, 2022"
It does seem very odd Starmer is championing him to labour
Golly. Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.
Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
I've seen a few crossing floors in my life and still don't know what to make of them. They can really irritate party diehards.
The situation would of course be a lot less dramatic if whips weren't so violent (I choose that word deliberately in its mostly non-physical meaning) in their insistence on towing the party line and if the two party system were not so starkly architectural in the two chambers.
A more consensual, less adversarial, less two-party binary system would do the country a lot of good.*
Not that I expect much support for such a comment in this frequently bear-pit online chamber.
* Waits for the first person to mention Italy
Like Israel?
Yes - some multi-party political systems end up with the balance held by the extremists....
I can remember some fans of proportional representation (power for smaller parties) who were very upset that the DUP should be holding the balance of power. Statements were made about them not being a proper party etc.
Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill. Young Labour does not welcome him. 12:14 PM · Jan 19, 2022"
"Young Labour" clearly haven't got to the bit of the Politics undergraduate degree where whipping is explained.
Re Bury South: It seems to me that when MPs choose to change parties that they should, generally, seek a by-election. There are some exceptions - if a party splits for example.
I think it's quite weird that anyone could (currently) go from Tory to Labour though. Labour are still very left.
Particularly odd at Holyrood, where some MSPs are explicitly elected on the party list element, that such MSPs can leave their party but not have to give up the seat.
OTOH part of the calculation there may be that it is better for the original party to have an independent but broadly aligned former colleague than force a by election which is de facto FPTP across the region and which one might lose - this is especially true of cases where the MSP came low in the list anyway. Akin to the problem one gets in analysing Scottish local gmt by elections.
Great theatre, but this defection is, objectively speaking, very odd indeed. Why would you defect just at the point where it's likely that there will be a new leader and probably a considerable change of direction in your party? Is Wakeford going to do a reverse flounce if the party chooses a new leader who is better aligned with his views?
Regardless of Boris being crap I really don’t agree with MPs switching parties like this - really think morally they should trigger a by-election as in most cases they are elected as a member of their original party.
If they believe that the other party is better for the country then they should have the courage of their convictions that their constituents would agree and vote for them in their new party.
Would be more honest or fair to resign the whip and act as an Independent IMHO.
Under FPTP we elect individuals. If we as a nation want to continue with the dreadful system then you have to accept that an individual can switch party at any time for any reason and demanding they put themselves up for re-election means you think FPTP is a sham.
Theoretically you are right but do you honestly believe that the vast majority of MPs aren’t elected because of the Party that they are telling voters they represent?
Do you think this MP would be current MP if he had stood as an independent or even more appropriately- would he be the current MP if he had stood as a Labour candidate? Does he have some special genius that attracted the voters of Bury South?
Well, no…… he was elected as a Tory MP and as I said, if he really believes that he is correct and the voters of his constituency value him above a party, or that he reflects the change in their views then he should have the balls to put it to the test.
Tiny majority, though, and per the current polls the seat is safe Labour. So all this is doing is reflecting that now rather than putting it off until 2024. It can be viewed as accelerated democracy.
Accelerated democracy where the constituents don't get to vote. Sounds like the sort of democracy that elected von der Leyen as EU President.
They will get to vote in 2024. Meanwhile a seat that is clear Labour on current polls has a Labour MP. I get the point about "should have a by-election" but it's not the biggest outrage in the world imo. I'd say the same if the parties were reversed.
Pretty brave to make yourself a pariah to everyone - especially if as suggested he only decided last night. Nobody likes a rat and I doubt he'll feel particularly welcome in his new seat.
Defectors are generally nothing but trouble. You buy a one-off PR boost on the day and suffer for it thereafter.
So they say, but there's precious little evidence for that. Shaun Woodward applies, it worked out fine for Labour under Blair, despite similar arguments at the time.
Churchill’s biographer appears not to know about Leo Amery’s landmark call on Neville Chamberlain to go which helped pave way for Churchill to enter No 10
Whatever my anger at Boris right now, I'm a bit miffed and rather surprised to see my own MP cross the floor.
He always seemed a bit of a lightweight and not making a massive impression locally. The local Labour Party has eviscerated him, not least because of him remaining a Pendle Councillor on Lancs CC and drawing expenses for that. It will certainly be amusing to see the local Labour Party leaflets and door knockers explaining why he's now the man for the area. I'm quite looking forward to asking about that in person when they next come round.
Many friends and family in this area detest the man. I think this defection might help the Tories hold the seat in 2024, oddly.
Interesting info. It does seem highly likely that he is worried about losing income to support his young family. It would have been highly likely that he would lose his seat as a Tory MP and would be more likely to hold it if he joined Labour. His voting record suggests he isn't left wing at all. As much as it would be easy to complain about him doing so I do understand why he would make such a decision.
Wakeford knows he will unlikely ever earn the £81,932 he now gets outside Parliament.
Great theatre, but this defection is, objectively speaking, very odd indeed. Why would you defect just at the point where it's likely that there will be a new leader and probably a considerable change of direction in your party? Is Wakeford going to do a reverse flounce if the party chooses a new leader who is better aligned with his views?
Cynically to keep hold of the seat. It is a goner.
Golly. Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.
Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
Nearly no-one votes for their MP - the whole personal vote thing is quite rare, really.
In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
Does the speaker ever lose count of Loto's 6 qs? Or does he do the umpire pebble thing?
Boris always follows the sixth question with a rant, since Starmer will be unable to respond. So it is for the Prime Minister, not the Speaker, to keep count.
Golly. Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.
Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
Not how I'd categorise all my in-laws up in Prestwich! Though North Manchester Jews tend not to be Corbynites, funnily enough...
Great theatre, but this defection is, objectively speaking, very odd indeed. Why would you defect just at the point where it's likely that there will be a new leader and probably a considerable change of direction in your party? Is Wakeford going to do a reverse flounce if the party chooses a new leader who is better aligned with his views?
Agree, it's a bit puzzling.
And why do Labour need this guy? Any MP who backed Boris Johnson has pretty poor judgement. It's not like it's a game-changer in terms of the parliamentary arithmetic, and if Starmer wants to be PM he should certainly be looking to win this seat next time.
Churchill’s biographer appears not to know about Leo Amery’s landmark call on Neville Chamberlain to go which helped pave way for Churchill to enter No 10
Does anyone know if David Davis would have secured a question slot from the speaker? And the last question too? Or, was he trying to get the speaker's eye throughout PMQs with no guarantee of success?
Churchill’s biographer appears not to know about Leo Amery’s landmark call on Neville Chamberlain to go which helped pave way for Churchill to enter No 10
Golly. Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.
Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
Nearly no-one votes for their MP - the whole personal vote thing is quite rare, really.
In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
I generally don't vote for a candidate. I vote against the other candidates.
Golly. Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.
Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
Nearly no-one votes for their MP - the whole personal vote thing is quite rare, really.
In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
If you live in a marginal and it is close nationally you may still hold on on personal vote but otherwise yes MPs are normally elected by their party label
Regardless of Boris being crap I really don’t agree with MPs switching parties like this - really think morally they should trigger a by-election as in most cases they are elected as a member of their original party.
If they believe that the other party is better for the country then they should have the courage of their convictions that their constituents would agree and vote for them in their new party.
Would be more honest or fair to resign the whip and act as an Independent IMHO.
Under FPTP we elect individuals. If we as a nation want to continue with the dreadful system then you have to accept that an individual can switch party at any time for any reason and demanding they put themselves up for re-election means you think FPTP is a sham.
Theoretically you are right but do you honestly believe that the vast majority of MPs aren’t elected because of the Party that they are telling voters they represent?
Do you think this MP would be current MP if he had stood as an independent or even more appropriately- would he be the current MP if he had stood as a Labour candidate? Does he have some special genius that attracted the voters of Bury South?
Well, no…… he was elected as a Tory MP and as I said, if he really believes that he is correct and the voters of his constituency value him above a party, or that he reflects the change in their views then he should have the balls to put it to the test.
Tiny majority, though, and per the current polls the seat is safe Labour. So all this is doing is reflecting that now rather than putting it off until 2024. It can be viewed as accelerated democracy.
Accelerated democracy where the constituents don't get to vote. Sounds like the sort of democracy that elected von der Leyen as EU President.
They will get to vote in 2024. Meanwhile a seat that is clear Labour on current polls has a Labour MP. I get the point about "should have a by-election" but it's not the biggest outrage in the world imo. I'd say the same if the parties were reversed.
2024 is years away. The people of Bury South deserve to have a say on the person representing them now, given his voting behaviour will now be completely different. They voted for someone with "Conservative and Unionist Party" under their name at the last election.
I think the defection today was a tactical mistake, for what it is worth.
Allows Tories to rally to the standard in very depth of the battle.
Yes, if anything it's overshadowed a much bigger intervention from David Davis. That alone will be enough to get the letters over the line. Boris really needs to resign to avoid the damage to the party of the VONC process.
As I keep saying, people can and should WFH when it suits them and their job role. But the guidance has been hugely damaging as it's led companies to ban their staff from meeting clients and suppliers in person – a massive limitation on trade.
The end of restrictions is a pretty big win for the tories in the light of what's happening in Europe and elsewhere.
Why let a few drinks parties obscure that?
Trouble is, the feeling is that it's down to Mr Johnson's opportunism, cornered rat-style, rather than anything actually rational and carefully considered.
Whatever my anger at Boris right now, I'm a bit miffed and rather surprised to see my own MP cross the floor.
He always seemed a bit of a lightweight and not making a massive impression locally. The local Labour Party has eviscerated him, not least because of him remaining a Pendle Councillor on Lancs CC and drawing expenses for that. It will certainly be amusing to see the local Labour Party leaflets and door knockers explaining why he's now the man for the area. I'm quite looking forward to asking about that in person when they next come round.
Many friends and family in this area detest the man. I think this defection might help the Tories hold the seat in 2024, oddly.
Interesting info. It does seem highly likely that he is worried about losing income to support his young family. It would have been highly likely that he would lose his seat as a Tory MP and would be more likely to hold it if he joined Labour. His voting record suggests he isn't left wing at all. As much as it would be easy to complain about him doing so I do understand why he would make such a decision.
It is strange. Why not sit as independent, which also leaves open the possibility to return to the fold should a different Con leader emerge (and, who knows, even cosy up and find a safer seat?)
One possible conclusion is that he does not believe Johnson is toast. Somewhat interesting, if so. Of course, it's probably more likely that he just believes his seat is toast if he stays Tory, under any leader.
Third possibility is that he had a massive bet on a Con -> Lab defection before the end of January
I can explain why Boris was handed a clear win, Starmer was self satisfied and complacent and not serious enough in approach to channel the electorates anger and hurt as he done well last week. You get your tone and strategy wrong, you hand the win to the other side and make yourself look bad like he did.
I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
I’m not a fan of defections. I think the moral thing to do is stay and fight for change in the party that supported you and that people elected you to represent FWIW. But a coup for Labour no doubt.
I think Davis has Howe’d Boris, personally. Suspect he’ll be gone in a matter of days now. The 1922 letter threshold might even be met today.
I think the defection today was a tactical mistake, for what it is worth.
Allows Tories to rally to the standard in very depth of the battle.
Yes, if anything it's overshadowed a much bigger intervention from David Davis. That alone will be enough to get the letters over the line. Boris really needs to resign to avoid the damage to the party of the VONC process.
I think the David Davis intervention was devastating. He had no need to do that. Really makes you wonder what other MPs must be thinking. Surely, it really must be over.
The more the Corbynistas rant and rave the clearer it becomes to centrists that Labour is safe to vote for again. Labour need to ensure Corbyn is not readmitted for symbolic reasons if nothing else. Corbyn was the Tories greatest asset in 2019 and the only way they will return to government will be by convincing the voters they need that Corbyn and his accolytes are now irrelevant.
Will he call a by election in protest if he doesn't?
Indeed, that was an idiotic move by Davis.
Had he remained in the Shadow Cabinet he would have been Cameron's Home Secretary in 2016 and it could have been Davis, not May who replaced Cameron as PM
I can explain why Boris was handed a clear win, Starmer was self satisfied and complacent and not serious enough in approach to channel the electorates anger and hurt as he done well last week. You get your tone and strategy wrong, you hand the win to the other side and make yourself look bad like he did.
I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
I was joking, but I genuinely thought BJ was unexpectedly upbeat. David Davis redressed the balance though
SKS giving a fairly good part 2 kicking in response to Covid statement, though
Sunak quite literally having to drag the PM back may turn out to be the most significant event imho. Control v Out of Control. Face masks? Old news. Yet to meet anyone IRL who really cares much.
Does anyone know if David Davis would have secured a question slot from the speaker? And the last question too? Or, was he trying to get the speaker's eye throughout PMQs with no guarantee of success?
The selected questions were
Wendy Chamberlain (LibDem) John Baron (Con) Mark Pawsey (Con) Jessica Morden (Lab) Peter Grant (SNP) Diana Johnson(Lab) Hywel Williams (Plaid) Mark Menzies (Con) Kate Griffiths (Con) Paul Howell (Con) Andrew Lewer (Con) Liz Twist (Lab) Sir Robert Goodwill (Con) Stephen Kinnock (Lab)
So David Davis was picked by the speaker separately (hardly surprising as one of the longer serving MPs and the speaker was probably aware of the question).
Comments
FUCKING WOW.
The Lib Dem party also had some issues with some of the labour defectors before 2019 election for their wrongthink too.
It does seem very odd Starmer is championing him to labour
Bombshell from David Davis
Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
I can remember some fans of proportional representation (power for smaller parties) who were very upset that the DUP should be holding the balance of power. Statements were made about them not being a proper party etc.
OTOH part of the calculation there may be that it is better for the original party to have an independent but broadly aligned former colleague than force a by election which is de facto FPTP across the region and which one might lose - this is especially true of cases where the MSP came low in the list anyway. Akin to the problem
one gets in analysing Scottish local gmt by elections.
I can see him being gone by the end of the week, indeed today. He's utterly broken now.
So they say, but there's precious little evidence for that. Shaun Woodward applies, it worked out fine for Labour under Blair, despite similar arguments at the time.
https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1483781893590028291
He was an insurance broker before election, average salary even in London £38,733
https://uk.indeed.com/career/insurance-broker/salaries/London
Allows Tories to rally to the standard in very depth of the battle.
In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
And why do Labour need this guy? Any MP who backed Boris Johnson has pretty poor judgement.
It's not like it's a game-changer in terms of the parliamentary arithmetic, and if Starmer wants to be PM he should certainly be looking to win this seat next time.
Tory MP crosses the floor and joins Labour. Response from the Left: "Why don't you f-off and join the Tories?"
And yet entryists from the SWP and various other fringe outfits are welcomed by them with open arms.
Masks binned in classrooms with immediate effect
Why let a few drinks parties obscure that?
That's the Brutus moment.
Good riddance to the guidance.
One possible conclusion is that he does not believe Johnson is toast. Somewhat interesting, if so. Of course, it's probably more likely that he just believes his seat is toast if he stays Tory, under any leader.
Third possibility is that he had a massive bet on a Con -> Lab defection before the end of January
I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
I think Davis has Howe’d Boris, personally. Suspect he’ll be gone in a matter of days now. The 1922 letter threshold might even be met today.
https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1004656199885836288
"David Davis is ex SAS He’s trained to survive. He’s also trained to take people out. #Brexit"
(from 2018)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60050699
Had he remained in the Shadow Cabinet he would have been Cameron's Home Secretary in 2016 and it could have been Davis, not May who replaced Cameron as PM
Embarrass the opposition, who would be like rabbits caught in headlights, and give a clear demonstration of transition from pandemic to endemic.
SKS giving a fairly good part 2 kicking in response to Covid statement, though
Control v Out of Control.
Face masks? Old news. Yet to meet anyone IRL who really cares much.
The new member of the PLP is not.
You may be personally OK with that I am not
Wendy Chamberlain (LibDem)
John Baron (Con)
Mark Pawsey (Con)
Jessica Morden (Lab)
Peter Grant (SNP)
Diana Johnson(Lab)
Hywel Williams (Plaid)
Mark Menzies (Con)
Kate Griffiths (Con)
Paul Howell (Con)
Andrew Lewer (Con)
Liz Twist (Lab)
Sir Robert Goodwill (Con)
Stephen Kinnock (Lab)
So David Davis was picked by the speaker separately (hardly surprising as one of the longer serving MPs and the speaker was probably aware of the question).