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Tory MP defects to Labour – politicalbetting.com

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  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    One of those PMQs today where almost everywhere you look you see smug arrogant knobheads. Johnson looking at his watch was a particular low point and will boil the blood of anyone who made real sacrifices in the last two years. Meanwhile Starmer looked entirely too pleased with himself.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    edited January 2022
    Ooh, David Davis going for Johnson.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    David Davis sticks in the knife, calls for Bozo to go
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    David Davis tells Boris to go
  • David Davis goes Leo Amery on Boris Johnson.

    FUCKING WOW.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    AlistairM said:

    Not everyone is happy about the defection.

    https://twitter.com/YoungLabourUK/status/1483774774350422016
    Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill. Young Labour does not welcome him.

    They're right

    The Lib Dem party also had some issues with some of the labour defectors before 2019 election for their wrongthink too.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Young Labour
    @YoungLabourUK

    Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill. Young Labour does not welcome him.
    12:14 PM · Jan 19, 2022"


    It does seem very odd Starmer is championing him to labour

    Bombshell from David Davis
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Ouch. David Davis!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    When is @HYUFD going to cross the floor?

    Never, I was Tory even in 1997 and 2001
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    edited January 2022
    That was a hell of a grenade from David Davis
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Compounds a dreadful day for the clown.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Ivan Lewis was an excellent MP for Bury South. A pity he isn't still the sitting member, having been driven out by Jeremy Corbyn.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    Golly.
    Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
    Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.

    Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Heathener said:

    I've seen a few crossing floors in my life and still don't know what to make of them. They can really irritate party diehards.

    The situation would of course be a lot less dramatic if whips weren't so violent (I choose that word deliberately in its mostly non-physical meaning) in their insistence on towing the party line and if the two party system were not so starkly architectural in the two chambers.

    A more consensual, less adversarial, less two-party binary system would do the country a lot of good.*

    Not that I expect much support for such a comment in this frequently bear-pit online chamber.



    * Waits for the first person to mention Italy

    Like Israel?
    Yes - some multi-party political systems end up with the balance held by the extremists....

    I can remember some fans of proportional representation (power for smaller parties) who were very upset that the DUP should be holding the balance of power. Statements were made about them not being a proper party etc.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    kinabalu said:

    Union Jack mask too - we don't like to see that.
    Starmer does

    Will he cross the floor on Lancashire CC too

    Anti Climate change, pro austerity pro statues of slavers true Thatcherite


    Perfect face for SKS Labour
    30 minutes is a long time in politics. 😆

    It’s now bad day for Starmer and a good day for Boris!
    I'm rooting for Boris. I'd love to see what he could achieve in two more years.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Andy_JS said:

    "Young Labour
    @YoungLabourUK

    Christian Wakeford MP should not be admitted to the Labour Party. He has consistently voted against the interests of working-class people; for the £20 universal credit cut, for the Nationality and Borders Bill and for the Police and Crime Bill. Young Labour does not welcome him.
    12:14 PM · Jan 19, 2022"

    "Young Labour" clearly haven't got to the bit of the Politics undergraduate degree where whipping is explained.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Maybe David Davis will call a by election? 😄
  • Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Corbynistas not happy.

    'You realise right, that centrist Labour sabotaged two general elections? This just shows Labour are actually Tory 2, the backup team. Pointless.'
    https://twitter.com/raystonian/status/1483769632431480832?s=20

    'You see the problem with Labour taking tories into its ranks though?'
    https://twitter.com/FALLLFAN/status/1483770154513272837?s=20

    'I can't believe I have to explain this, but winning an election is meaningless if the only material change is the colour and name of the governing party'
    https://twitter.com/thetertus/status/1483769753638424579?s=20

    'More Tories in the Parliamentary Labour Party. That’s *exactly* what we need.'
    https://twitter.com/MrGeorgePRS/status/1483769897612161026?s=20

    Big tents are popular.
    I am surprised you would champion his defection in view of his views
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    David Davis goes Leo Amery on Boris Johnson.

    FUCKING WOW.

    That’s going to make the news - short and to the point
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    DD. Double Diamond works wonders.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited January 2022
    Omnium said:

    Re Bury South: It seems to me that when MPs choose to change parties that they should, generally, seek a by-election. There are some exceptions - if a party splits for example.

    I think it's quite weird that anyone could (currently) go from Tory to Labour though. Labour are still very left.

    Particularly odd at Holyrood, where some MSPs are explicitly elected on the party list element, that such MSPs can leave their party but not have to give up the seat.

    OTOH part of the calculation there may be that it is better for the original party to have an independent but broadly aligned former colleague than force a by election which is de facto FPTP across the region and which one might lose - this is especially true of cases where the MSP came low in the list anyway. Akin to the problem
    one gets in analysing Scottish local gmt by elections.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    When is @HYUFD going to cross the floor?

    To ReFuk?
  • David Davis goes Leo Amery on Boris Johnson.

    FUCKING WOW.

    That’s going to make the news - short and to the point
    It is probably a bigger moment than the Wakeford defection.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Well done DD. He’ll be leading the bulletins with that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Great theatre, but this defection is, objectively speaking, very odd indeed. Why would you defect just at the point where it's likely that there will be a new leader and probably a considerable change of direction in your party? Is Wakeford going to do a reverse flounce if the party chooses a new leader who is better aligned with his views?

    No.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Davis’s intervention surely signals the 54 letters are coming
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,785
    Question: what does Boris Johnson have more of - political allies, or ex-wives?
  • The only people more upset than the Tories about the Wakeford defection are the Corbyn loons on the left.
  • HYUFD said:

    When is @HYUFD going to cross the floor?

    Never, I was Tory even in 1997 and 2001
    You voted for Plaid
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    That was a hell of a grenade from David Davis

    That rocked Boris more than anything at PMQs. Miles more devastating than the Bury S opportunism.

    I can see him being gone by the end of the week, indeed today. He's utterly broken now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Alistair said:

    boulay said:

    Regardless of Boris being crap I really don’t agree with MPs switching parties like this - really think morally they should trigger a by-election as in most cases they are elected as a member of their original party.

    If they believe that the other party is better for the country then they should have the courage of their convictions that their constituents would agree and vote for them in their new party.

    Would be more honest or fair to resign the whip and act as an Independent IMHO.

    Under FPTP we elect individuals. If we as a nation want to continue with the dreadful system then you have to accept that an individual can switch party at any time for any reason and demanding they put themselves up for re-election means you think FPTP is a sham.
    Theoretically you are right but do you honestly believe that the vast majority of MPs aren’t elected because of the Party that they are telling voters they represent?

    Do you think this MP would be current MP if he had stood as an independent or even more appropriately- would he be the current MP if he had stood as a Labour candidate? Does he have some special genius that attracted the voters of Bury South?

    Well, no…… he was elected as a Tory MP and as I said, if he really believes that he is correct and the voters of his constituency value him above a party, or that he reflects the change in their views then he should have the balls to put it to the test.
    Tiny majority, though, and per the current polls the seat is safe Labour. So all this is doing is reflecting that now rather than putting it off until 2024. It can be viewed as accelerated democracy.
    Accelerated democracy where the constituents don't get to vote. Sounds like the sort of democracy that elected von der Leyen as EU President.
    They will get to vote in 2024. Meanwhile a seat that is clear Labour on current polls has a Labour MP. I get the point about "should have a by-election" but it's not the biggest outrage in the world imo. I'd say the same if the parties were reversed.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    IanB2 said:

    maaarsh said:

    Pretty brave to make yourself a pariah to everyone - especially if as suggested he only decided last night. Nobody likes a rat and I doubt he'll feel particularly welcome in his new seat.

    Defectors are generally nothing but trouble. You buy a one-off PR boost on the day and suffer for it thereafter.

    So they say, but there's precious little evidence for that. Shaun Woodward applies, it worked out fine for Labour under Blair, despite similar arguments at the time.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    Extraordinary. Was that THE David Davis? The one who stood against Cameron?
  • Churchill’s biographer appears not to know about Leo Amery’s landmark call on Neville Chamberlain to go which helped pave way for Churchill to enter No 10

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1483781893590028291
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    AlistairM said:

    Whatever my anger at Boris right now, I'm a bit miffed and rather surprised to see my own MP cross the floor.

    He always seemed a bit of a lightweight and not making a massive impression locally. The local Labour Party has eviscerated him, not least because of him remaining a Pendle Councillor on Lancs CC and drawing expenses for that. It will certainly be amusing to see the local Labour Party leaflets and door knockers explaining why he's now the man for the area. I'm quite looking forward to asking about that in person when they next come round.

    Many friends and family in this area detest the man. I think this defection might help the Tories hold the seat in 2024, oddly.

    Interesting info. It does seem highly likely that he is worried about losing income to support his young family. It would have been highly likely that he would lose his seat as a Tory MP and would be more likely to hold it if he joined Labour. His voting record suggests he isn't left wing at all. As much as it would be easy to complain about him doing so I do understand why he would make such a decision.
    Wakeford knows he will unlikely ever earn the £81,932 he now gets outside Parliament.

    He was an insurance broker before election, average salary even in London £38,733
    https://uk.indeed.com/career/insurance-broker/salaries/London
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Great theatre, but this defection is, objectively speaking, very odd indeed. Why would you defect just at the point where it's likely that there will be a new leader and probably a considerable change of direction in your party? Is Wakeford going to do a reverse flounce if the party chooses a new leader who is better aligned with his views?

    Cynically to keep hold of the seat. It is a goner.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited January 2022
    WFH is over. So are mandatory facemasks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    I think the defection today was a tactical mistake, for what it is worth.

    Allows Tories to rally to the standard in very depth of the battle.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Golly.
    Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
    Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.

    Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
    Nearly no-one votes for their MP - the whole personal vote thing is quite rare, really.

    In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Does the speaker ever lose count of Loto's 6 qs? Or does he do the umpire pebble thing?

    Boris always follows the sixth question with a rant, since Starmer will be unable to respond. So it is for the Prime Minister, not the Speaker, to keep count.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Golly.
    Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
    Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.

    Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
    Not how I'd categorise all my in-laws up in Prestwich! Though North Manchester Jews tend not to be Corbynites, funnily enough...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Roger said:

    Extraordinary. Was that THE David Davis? The one who stood against Cameron?

    Yes, Boris will hope that was not his Geoffrey Howe moment
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    DD's intervention is more significant than the defection.

    Yes, very widely respected among grassroots Tories and leave voting Tory members.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Andy_JS said:

    WFH is over. So are mandatory facemasks.

    Just the advice, I doubt WFH is going anywhere.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    The only people more upset than the Tories about the Wakeford defection are the Corbyn loons on the left.

    We will see how this plays out
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,296

    Great theatre, but this defection is, objectively speaking, very odd indeed. Why would you defect just at the point where it's likely that there will be a new leader and probably a considerable change of direction in your party? Is Wakeford going to do a reverse flounce if the party chooses a new leader who is better aligned with his views?

    Agree, it's a bit puzzling.

    And why do Labour need this guy? Any MP who backed Boris Johnson has pretty poor judgement.
    It's not like it's a game-changer in terms of the parliamentary arithmetic, and if Starmer wants to be PM he should certainly be looking to win this seat next time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited January 2022

    Churchill’s biographer appears not to know about Leo Amery’s landmark call on Neville Chamberlain to go which helped pave way for Churchill to enter No 10

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1483781893590028291

    Using the words that brought Churchill in to try and send Johnson out, will hurt.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714
    Andy_JS said:

    WFH is over. So are mandatory facemasks.

    Party time dudes!!!!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    WFH mandate binned with immediate effect

    Masks binned in classrooms with immediate effect
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126

    MASK MANDATES BINNED

    HALLELUJAH!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MASK MANDATES BINNED

    Excellent! Knew it was just a headfake to give Boris red meat to the CRG.
  • Face masks mandating gone from everywhere
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Mandatory face masks gone once requirements expire - will continue to recommend for closed environments but not legal requirement.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Does anyone know if David Davis would have secured a question slot from the speaker? And the last question too? Or, was he trying to get the speaker's eye throughout PMQs with no guarantee of success?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited January 2022
    The papers were totally wrong about the masks – @maarsh and @MaxPB were absolutely right. Kudos.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748
    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    Extraordinary. Was that THE David Davis? The one who stood against Cameron?

    Yes, Boris will hope that was not his Geoffrey Howe moment
    Boris must fight on, fight to win.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179

    Churchill’s biographer appears not to know about Leo Amery’s landmark call on Neville Chamberlain to go which helped pave way for Churchill to enter No 10

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1483781893590028291

    That was why I felt he was so rocked, he was so utterly shell shocked he couldn't get his brain in gear or compute the enormity of it!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Golly.
    Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
    Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.

    Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
    Nearly no-one votes for their MP - the whole personal vote thing is quite rare, really.

    In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
    I generally don't vote for a candidate. I vote against the other candidates. ;)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,792

    MASK MANDATES BINNED

    Hooray! But link?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    Golly.
    Sorry to go all BJO, but if this is a straw in the wind for the direction of New New Labour..
    Indeed. He's really quite toxic among lefties around here including Mrs S.

    Prestwich in particular is all trendy young hipsters now, Corbynite to the core. I really find it hard to believe the sort of people who have obsessed against Wakeford for the past couple of years are suddenly going to vote for him in 2024 even if it helps remove the Tories.
    Nearly no-one votes for their MP - the whole personal vote thing is quite rare, really.

    In the real world, knowing your MPs name makes you a political geek. Most people vote for the party....
    If you live in a marginal and it is close nationally you may still hold on on personal vote but otherwise yes MPs are normally elected by their party label
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    edited January 2022
    Has Wakeford been in Parliament long enough to have voted with the Conservative Government more times than Jeremy Corbyn did?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Will seek vote to bring covid sunset clause (due to lapse in March) forward.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,277
    HYUFD said:

    David Davis tells Boris to go

    Will he call a by election in protest if he doesn't? :D
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    The end of restrictions is a pretty big win for the tories in the light of what's happening in Europe and elsewhere.

    Why let a few drinks parties obscure that?
  • The papers were totally wrong about the masks – @maarsh and @MaxPB were absolutely right. Kudos.

    The papers will not be happy if they were lied to about masks.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    kinabalu said:

    Aslan said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    Alistair said:

    boulay said:

    Regardless of Boris being crap I really don’t agree with MPs switching parties like this - really think morally they should trigger a by-election as in most cases they are elected as a member of their original party.

    If they believe that the other party is better for the country then they should have the courage of their convictions that their constituents would agree and vote for them in their new party.

    Would be more honest or fair to resign the whip and act as an Independent IMHO.

    Under FPTP we elect individuals. If we as a nation want to continue with the dreadful system then you have to accept that an individual can switch party at any time for any reason and demanding they put themselves up for re-election means you think FPTP is a sham.
    Theoretically you are right but do you honestly believe that the vast majority of MPs aren’t elected because of the Party that they are telling voters they represent?

    Do you think this MP would be current MP if he had stood as an independent or even more appropriately- would he be the current MP if he had stood as a Labour candidate? Does he have some special genius that attracted the voters of Bury South?

    Well, no…… he was elected as a Tory MP and as I said, if he really believes that he is correct and the voters of his constituency value him above a party, or that he reflects the change in their views then he should have the balls to put it to the test.
    Tiny majority, though, and per the current polls the seat is safe Labour. So all this is doing is reflecting that now rather than putting it off until 2024. It can be viewed as accelerated democracy.
    Accelerated democracy where the constituents don't get to vote. Sounds like the sort of democracy that elected von der Leyen as EU President.
    They will get to vote in 2024. Meanwhile a seat that is clear Labour on current polls has a Labour MP. I get the point about "should have a by-election" but it's not the biggest outrage in the world imo. I'd say the same if the parties were reversed.
    2024 is years away. The people of Bury South deserve to have a say on the person representing them now, given his voting behaviour will now be completely different. They voted for someone with "Conservative and Unionist Party" under their name at the last election.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    Face masks mandating gone from everywhere

    Boris should have announced it during PMQs and all the Tories could have taken their masks off.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    BBC2 showing what they think about the end of WFH and masks by hosting a chat about the defection rather than showing Johnson's speech.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    Cookie said:

    MASK MANDATES BINNED

    Hooray! But link?
    Johnson has just announced it. So you can believe that...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    MASK MANDATES BINNED

    I don't think this was in doubt tbh. The UK is transitioning rapidly to post-pandemic now.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Oh my goodness, David Davis.

    That's the Brutus moment.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    I think the defection today was a tactical mistake, for what it is worth.

    Allows Tories to rally to the standard in very depth of the battle.

    Yes, if anything it's overshadowed a much bigger intervention from David Davis. That alone will be enough to get the letters over the line. Boris really needs to resign to avoid the damage to the party of the VONC process.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    WFH is over. So are mandatory facemasks.

    Just the advice, I doubt WFH is going anywhere.
    As I keep saying, people can and should WFH when it suits them and their job role. But the guidance has been hugely damaging as it's led companies to ban their staff from meeting clients and suppliers in person – a massive limitation on trade.

    Good riddance to the guidance.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955
    edited January 2022
    stjohn said:

    DD. Double Diamond works wonders.

    He used to be in favour of support for big tits.




  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    edited January 2022

    WFH mandate binned with immediate effect

    Bugger. When's the next train to Leeds...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    MISTY said:

    The end of restrictions is a pretty big win for the tories in the light of what's happening in Europe and elsewhere.

    Why let a few drinks parties obscure that?

    Trouble is, the feeling is that it's down to Mr Johnson's opportunism, cornered rat-style, rather than anything actually rational and carefully considered.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727
    AlistairM said:

    Whatever my anger at Boris right now, I'm a bit miffed and rather surprised to see my own MP cross the floor.

    He always seemed a bit of a lightweight and not making a massive impression locally. The local Labour Party has eviscerated him, not least because of him remaining a Pendle Councillor on Lancs CC and drawing expenses for that. It will certainly be amusing to see the local Labour Party leaflets and door knockers explaining why he's now the man for the area. I'm quite looking forward to asking about that in person when they next come round.

    Many friends and family in this area detest the man. I think this defection might help the Tories hold the seat in 2024, oddly.

    Interesting info. It does seem highly likely that he is worried about losing income to support his young family. It would have been highly likely that he would lose his seat as a Tory MP and would be more likely to hold it if he joined Labour. His voting record suggests he isn't left wing at all. As much as it would be easy to complain about him doing so I do understand why he would make such a decision.
    It is strange. Why not sit as independent, which also leaves open the possibility to return to the fold should a different Con leader emerge (and, who knows, even cosy up and find a safer seat?)

    One possible conclusion is that he does not believe Johnson is toast. Somewhat interesting, if so. Of course, it's probably more likely that he just believes his seat is toast if he stays Tory, under any leader.

    Third possibility is that he had a massive bet on a Con -> Lab defection before the end of January :wink:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited January 2022

    stjohn said:

    DD. Double Diamond works wonders.

    He used to be in favour of support for big tits.




    Obvs a birdwatcher. Great tits. Or blue tits.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Cookie said:

    MASK MANDATES BINNED

    Hooray! But link?
    Just watching it live in Parliament on Sky.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    IshmaelZ said:

    Great fightback, pretty clear win for Johnson.

    SKS fans please explain.

    I can explain why Boris was handed a clear win, Starmer was self satisfied and complacent and not serious enough in approach to channel the electorates anger and hurt as he done well last week. You get your tone and strategy wrong, you hand the win to the other side and make yourself look bad like he did.

    I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Masks gone from classrooms tomorrow. Disgrace they were ever imposed.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    Heathener said:

    Omnium said:

    Labour are still very left.

    So are the current Conservatives ;)
    A good point. Alas!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    I’m not a fan of defections. I think the moral thing to do is stay and fight for change in the party that supported you and that people elected you to represent FWIW. But a coup for Labour no doubt.

    I think Davis has Howe’d Boris, personally. Suspect he’ll be gone in a matter of days now. The 1922 letter threshold might even be met today.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    MaxPB said:

    I think the defection today was a tactical mistake, for what it is worth.

    Allows Tories to rally to the standard in very depth of the battle.

    Yes, if anything it's overshadowed a much bigger intervention from David Davis. That alone will be enough to get the letters over the line. Boris really needs to resign to avoid the damage to the party of the VONC process.
    I think the David Davis intervention was devastating. He had no need to do that. Really makes you wonder what other MPs must be thinking. Surely, it really must be over.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited January 2022
    There's always a tweet:

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1004656199885836288

    "David Davis is ex SAS He’s trained to survive. He’s also trained to take people out. #Brexit"

    (from 2018)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Corbynistas not happy.

    'You realise right, that centrist Labour sabotaged two general elections? This just shows Labour are actually Tory 2, the backup team. Pointless.'
    https://twitter.com/raystonian/status/1483769632431480832?s=20

    'You see the problem with Labour taking tories into its ranks though?'
    https://twitter.com/FALLLFAN/status/1483770154513272837?s=20

    'I can't believe I have to explain this, but winning an election is meaningless if the only material change is the colour and name of the governing party'
    https://twitter.com/thetertus/status/1483769753638424579?s=20

    'More Tories in the Parliamentary Labour Party. That’s *exactly* what we need.'
    https://twitter.com/MrGeorgePRS/status/1483769897612161026?s=20

    The more the Corbynistas rant and rave the clearer it becomes to centrists that Labour is safe to vote for again. Labour need to ensure Corbyn is not readmitted for symbolic reasons if nothing else. Corbyn was the Tories greatest asset in 2019 and the only way they will return to government will be by convincing the voters they need that Corbyn and his accolytes are now irrelevant.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Inflation = 5.4%, highest since 1992.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60050699
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Carnyx said:

    stjohn said:

    DD. Double Diamond works wonders.

    He used to be in favour of support for big tits.




    Obvs a birdwatcher. Great tits. Or blue tits.
    He wouldn’t get away with that today
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    Heathener said:

    Oh my goodness, David Davis.

    That's the Brutus moment.

    Is it Boris's Geoffrey Howe moment
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908

    stjohn said:

    DD. Double Diamond works wonders.

    He used to be in favour of support for big tits.




    A good Labour philosophy then. Support where its needed
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    David Davis tells Boris to go

    Will he call a by election in protest if he doesn't? :D
    Indeed, that was an idiotic move by Davis.

    Had he remained in the Shadow Cabinet he would have been Cameron's Home Secretary in 2016 and it could have been Davis, not May who replaced Cameron as PM
  • As I was saying to the German car manufacturers.......
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    edited January 2022
    tlg86 said:

    Face masks mandating gone from everywhere

    Boris should have announced it during PMQs and all the Tories could have taken their masks off.
    Oh yes - peel off their masks one by one and stare at the Labour benches for a full 30 seconds.

    Embarrass the opposition, who would be like rabbits caught in headlights, and give a clear demonstration of transition from pandemic to endemic.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Great fightback, pretty clear win for Johnson.

    SKS fans please explain.

    I can explain why Boris was handed a clear win, Starmer was self satisfied and complacent and not serious enough in approach to channel the electorates anger and hurt as he done well last week. You get your tone and strategy wrong, you hand the win to the other side and make yourself look bad like he did.

    I’ll contrast it with another good example. Prime ministers questions but Boris didn’t go near answering a single question. However what he did do, if you put all his answers together especially the last one, was deliver a far better conference speech than he delivered at the last party conference. At the conference Boris speech got tone and strategy all wrong, partly landed him in this trouble. If he delivered “todays speech” at the conference it would have been much better received.
    I was joking, but I genuinely thought BJ was unexpectedly upbeat. David Davis redressed the balance though

    SKS giving a fairly good part 2 kicking in response to Covid statement, though
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    Sunak quite literally having to drag the PM back may turn out to be the most significant event imho.
    Control v Out of Control.
    Face masks? Old news. Yet to meet anyone IRL who really cares much.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660

    The only people more upset than the Tories about the Wakeford defection are the Corbyn loons on the left.

    It's classic isn't it?

    Tory MP crosses the floor and joins Labour. Response from the Left: "Why don't you f-off and join the Tories?"

    And yet entryists from the SWP and various other fringe outfits are welcomed by them with open arms.
    Labour is a Democratic Socialist Party

    The new member of the PLP is not.

    You may be personally OK with that I am not
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    stjohn said:

    Does anyone know if David Davis would have secured a question slot from the speaker? And the last question too? Or, was he trying to get the speaker's eye throughout PMQs with no guarantee of success?

    The selected questions were

    Wendy Chamberlain (LibDem)
    John Baron (Con)
    Mark Pawsey (Con)
    Jessica Morden (Lab)
    Peter Grant (SNP)
    Diana Johnson(Lab)
    Hywel Williams (Plaid)
    Mark Menzies (Con)
    Kate Griffiths (Con)
    Paul Howell (Con)
    Andrew Lewer (Con)
    Liz Twist (Lab)
    Sir Robert Goodwill (Con)
    Stephen Kinnock (Lab)

    So David Davis was picked by the speaker separately (hardly surprising as one of the longer serving MPs and the speaker was probably aware of the question).
This discussion has been closed.