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YouGov polls: From Hartlepool to North Shropshire – politicalbetting.com

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  • Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    So we now know Mrs Starmer's preferred brand of lipstick. What else can we deduce from the picture??
    He is bland and humourless
    You wouldn't often see him in the pub, maybe, but at least he'd buy his round when he was. Whereas the current PM might be the life and soul of the party but he'd never have his wallet with him.
    The books suggest someone interested in Design - Starck, Nicky Haslam.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Andrew Gwynne on Politics Live doing his best to promote the government's vaccine passports legislation.

    Tobias Ellwood saying that, actually, if we're going to have vaccine passports, they need to be three-jabs.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    I’m going back to Vintage Emmerdale on YouTube now, don’t feel brushed off PB 😘
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited December 2021

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    So we now know Mrs Starmer's preferred brand of lipstick. What else can we deduce from the picture??
    He is bland and humourless
    You'd prefer a clown for PM? Well, I never.
    What a silly comment when I confirmed yesterday I had written to my mp seeking Boris resignation
    Wasn't being entirely serious ... so yes!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Chris Whitty has just given a gloomy update to Cabinet on Omicron. The case doubling time is still 2-3 days, there is no reliable evidence of its severity or a peak in South Africa yet, and we should expect "a significant increase in hospitalisations as cases increase".
    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1470730617079873539
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Shocked I tell you, absolutely shocked, on her take...LOCKDOWN NOW....

    Prof Reicher says people should be clearly told "don't socialise" or govt could legislate to ensure they do. Reicher says govt should use any time during restrictions to make environments safer, i.e. ventilation etc. If it doesn't it will have "squandered" that time

    iSAGE are back with a bang. We need 12 years more Lockdown until every home has been fitted with high grade ventilation systems...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Unpopular said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    His ears look pinker than his lips!

    It does look like a normal room though. Apart from that damn' flag. WHY!!!
    It seems to be a recent political development. You might not have to shag the flag, but you need to show that you can at least get it up.

    Though these flags that politicians have seem to be of very high quality. Very rich, bold colours. Outside of Minister's offices, the Downing Street briefing room and now Starmer's spare bedroom, I don't think I've ever seen such luxurious looking flags.
    Jenny has left her lipstick on the bookcase?? So SKS wil now be sleeping in his spare bedroom with only a flag to keep him company!!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Are they really gonna pull this vote?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Cabinet readout. CMO tells cabinet to expect significant increases in hospitalisations from #omicron. Ahead of votes this evening, PM tells colleagues “huge spike of omicron now coming” https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1470733902658654211/photo/1
  • If we've had high cases for months wouldn't that afford greater protection through immunity?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish. Hospitalisations matter not cases, vaccines are the best way of avoiding hospitalisation.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    I think it's referring to the sustained pressure on the UK NHS for months.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    Who should we believe - experts or a poster from Essex who believed that Bill Gates gets a royalty on every jab because he once read it on a dodgy website?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Competition Entries

    What will be the maximum number of booster jabs reported for the U.K. on any day up to and including December 31st? Nearest estimate wins

    The following were received before the cut off at noon today:

    @RochdalePioneers 334,974
    @Endillion 525,600
    @MightyAlex 700,000
    @Cyclefree 723,527
    @Eabhal 825,000
    @carnyx 854,217
    @Richard_Nabavi 896,322
    @Nigelb 925,001
    @Andy_JS 930,000
    @Northern_Al 963,451
    @MattW 986,000
    @geoffw 987,654
    @IshmaelZ 999,000
    @Pulpstar 1,000,000
    @Maffew 1,000,001
    @NerysHughes 1,000,001
    @SandyRentool 1,010,101
    @Fairliered 1,029,762
    @Beibheirli_C 1,048,575
    @Benpointer 1,048,576
    @IanB2 1,075,000
    @MaxPB 1,097,642
    @londonpubman 1,100,000
    @Ratters 1,191,428
    @flatlander 1,248,510
    @Richard_Tyndall 1,264,987
    @Cookie 1,346,242
    @pigeon 1,350,000
    @OldKingCole 1,389,347
    @LostPassword 1,572,864
    @Philip_Thompson 2,001,524

    Please let me know if your entry has been missed or misinterpreted.

    Daily updates will be given to show who has been knocked out by that day's data.

    My first entry has been missed 1,234,567.

    Gave it yesterday.
    I overwrote your first entry, assuming you had given it more thought. I will add it to the list.
    Hey, are we all allowed multiple entries?
    No, I am just praying that @Cyclefree entry #2 is not the closest estimate so that we don't end up involving the stewards...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2021

    Unpopular said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    His ears look pinker than his lips!

    It does look like a normal room though. Apart from that damn' flag. WHY!!!
    It seems to be a recent political development. You might not have to shag the flag, but you need to show that you can at least get it up.

    Though these flags that politicians have seem to be of very high quality. Very rich, bold colours. Outside of Minister's offices, the Downing Street briefing room and now Starmer's spare bedroom, I don't think I've ever seen such luxurious looking flags.
    Jenny has left her lipstick on the bookcase?? So SKS wil now be sleeping in his spare bedroom with only a flag to keep him company!!
    It's not her brand.

    Think I'm joking - I know Jenny.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    HYUFD will also denounce this rubbish...

    "The Prime Minister said a huge spike of Omicron was coming and the measures we aimed to introduce as part of Plan B were balanced and proportionate, helping to reduce transmission while we ramp-up the booster programme" https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1470734265566564358
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    So we now know Mrs Starmer's preferred brand of lipstick. What else can we deduce from the picture??
    He is bland and humourless
    You'd prefer a clown for PM? Well, I never.
    Keir Starmer: All the charisma of Gordon Brown, just without the appeal to Scots.
    Ever come across Rev. I. M. Jolly?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cpb8rqYFd8
    LOL I'd never seen that before.

    Forget Brittas Empire, that fits Keir Starmer perfectly. 😂
  • Competition Entries

    What will be the maximum number of booster jabs reported for the U.K. on any day up to and including December 31st? Nearest estimate wins

    The following were received before the cut off at noon today:

    @RochdalePioneers 334,974
    @Endillion 525,600
    @MightyAlex 700,000
    @Cyclefree 723,527
    @Eabhal 825,000
    @carnyx 854,217
    @Richard_Nabavi 896,322
    @Nigelb 925,001
    @Andy_JS 930,000
    @Northern_Al 963,451
    @MattW 986,000
    @geoffw 987,654
    @IshmaelZ 999,000
    @Pulpstar 1,000,000
    @Maffew 1,000,001
    @NerysHughes 1,000,001
    @SandyRentool 1,010,101
    @Fairliered 1,029,762
    @Beibheirli_C 1,048,575
    @Benpointer 1,048,576
    @IanB2 1,075,000
    @MaxPB 1,097,642
    @londonpubman 1,100,000
    @Ratters 1,191,428
    @flatlander 1,248,510
    @Richard_Tyndall 1,264,987
    @Cookie 1,346,242
    @pigeon 1,350,000
    @OldKingCole 1,389,347
    @LostPassword 1,572,864
    @Philip_Thompson 2,001,524

    Please let me know if your entry has been missed or misinterpreted.

    Daily updates will be given to show who has been knocked out by that day's data.

    You've missed off the rest of my prediction. I said the number would be the full Priti Patel: 300,034,974,000
    Well if we're going with gag entries then I'm going to have to go with the timeless classic: 5318008
    Gag entries were excluded, unless a sense of humour failure on my part failed to spot them as such...
  • We are on the same predictable path aren't we. Scary numbers form the modellers, Witty being Dr Doom, iSAGE all over the place calling for eternal lockdowns, Scotland and Wales will introduce more restrictions...the only question is what will Boris do?
  • Competition Entries

    What will be the maximum number of booster jabs reported for the U.K. on any day up to and including December 31st? Nearest estimate wins

    The following were received before the cut off at noon today:

    @RochdalePioneers 334,974
    @Endillion 525,600
    @MightyAlex 700,000
    @Cyclefree 723,527
    @Eabhal 825,000
    @carnyx 854,217
    @Richard_Nabavi 896,322
    @Nigelb 925,001
    @Andy_JS 930,000
    @Northern_Al 963,451
    @MattW 986,000
    @geoffw 987,654
    @IshmaelZ 999,000
    @Pulpstar 1,000,000
    @Maffew 1,000,001
    @NerysHughes 1,000,001
    @SandyRentool 1,010,101
    @Fairliered 1,029,762
    @Beibheirli_C 1,048,575
    @Benpointer 1,048,576
    @IanB2 1,075,000
    @MaxPB 1,097,642
    @londonpubman 1,100,000
    @Ratters 1,191,428
    @flatlander 1,248,510
    @Richard_Tyndall 1,264,987
    @Cookie 1,346,242
    @pigeon 1,350,000
    @OldKingCole 1,389,347
    @LostPassword 1,572,864
    @Philip_Thompson 2,001,524

    Please let me know if your entry has been missed or misinterpreted.

    Daily updates will be given to show who has been knocked out by that day's data.

    You've missed off the rest of my prediction. I said the number would be the full Priti Patel: 300,034,974,000
    I apologise, it will be filed with the other spoilt entries
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    If we've had high cases for months wouldn't that afford greater protection through immunity?

    Depends on how much immunity / protection you get from a different strain.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    Who should we believe - experts or a poster from Essex who believed that Bill Gates gets a royalty on every jab because he once read it on a dodgy website?
    We know that some members of SAGE have been leftwing in the past. We also know that vaccination and boosters are the most effective means of avoiding hospitalisation and on that the UK is still leading the way
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310

    We are on the same predictable path aren't we. Scary numbers form the modellers, Witty being Dr Doom, iSAGE all over the place calling for eternal lockdowns, Scotland and Wales will introduce more restrictions...the only question is what will Boris do?

    But without - apparently - the financial support.

  • Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Pagel's a bleeding idiot then, but we already knew that.

    Prof Reicher is a bleeding idiot too, but we already knew that too.

    The UK having high cases for months means we have more immunity than anywhere with low cases. Bloody morons!

    As bad as Boris is, the more these fools open their mouths the more Boris looks like he has the Wisdom of Solomon.
  • The government website has been updated and is now showing that slots are available for walk-in and drive-through PCR test sites across all regions in England.

    I bet this doesn't get as many retweets.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Pagel's a bleeding idiot then, but we already knew that.

    Prof Reicher is a bleeding idiot too, but we already knew that too.

    The UK having high cases for months means we have more immunity than anywhere with low cases. Bloody morons!

    As bad as Boris is, the more these fools open their mouths the more Boris looks like he has the Wisdom of Solomon.
    If it was down to those two, we would now be entering month 20 of lockdown #1....they are the COVID equivalent of the MPs who kept saying well we will agree to vote through Brexit, but there is just one more thing before we do....
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited December 2021
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    Who should we believe - experts or a poster from Essex who believed that Bill Gates gets a royalty on every jab because he once read it on a dodgy website?
    We know that some members of SAGE have been leftwing in the past. We also know that vaccination and boosters are the most effective means of avoiding hospitalisation and on that the UK is still leading the way
    The point being made by the Prof AIUI is that hopsitalizations have been so high consistently in the UK that (for instance) the staff are knackered and capacity for more is low. It's a rational comment, not obviously Marxist, and makes perfect sense a priori.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish. Hospitalisations matter not cases, vaccines are the best way of avoiding hospitalisation.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    I'd like to hear Prof Reicher's explanation for what he said.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    I think it's referring to the sustained pressure on the UK NHS for months.
    Sustained pressure is a good thing. It flattens the sombrero.

    Every day that passes with sustained pressure in the past means a better off future.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    Who should we believe - experts or a poster from Essex who believed that Bill Gates gets a royalty on every jab because he once read it on a dodgy website?
    We know that some members of SAGE have been leftwing in the past. We also know that vaccination and boosters are the most effective means of avoiding hospitalisation and on that the UK is still leading the way
    I would refer you to @FrancisUrquhart post below

    Dr Paul Burton, chief medical officer at Moderna, said he expects data in the coming days to show how well the Moderna booster improves protection against the Omicron variant.
    ...
    We certainly don’t have to panic, we have many many tools at our disposal, we’ve learnt so much about this virus over the last two years, and we can continue to fight it, but I think Omicron poses a real threat.

    When you look at the data in SA about 15% of people who are hospitalised are in the intensive care unit, and while there’s variability, if you look back earlier in the year, at a time of delta surge in August, those numbers are about the same, 15%.

    So while the mortality rate we are seeing right now is mercifully lower, I think as a disease it is a very fit virus and it’s severe."
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    84 Tory rebel MPs if Guido is correct.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    This better future always appears to be just around the next corner.
    I feel, and I can't be alone, thoroughly fed up with it not appearing.
  • eek said:

    84 Tory rebel MPs if Guido is correct.

    Proud of the Tory backbenches. There's hope for the party yet.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Farooq said:

    Boostered today.
    Double queue, one for bookings (me) and another for walk-ins. Calm, smooth process, painless jab, all good.

    Can report the process in the walk-ins queue was calm, painless but cold and extremely slow.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    I think it's referring to the sustained pressure on the UK NHS for months.
    Sustained pressure is a good thing. It flattens the sombrero.

    Every day that passes with sustained pressure in the past means a better off future.
    People will be flattening your sombrero, Philip, if you keep puffing so hard and relentlessly on the drivel pipe.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited December 2021

    Competition Entries

    What will be the maximum number of booster jabs reported for the U.K. on any day up to and including December 31st? Nearest estimate wins

    The following were received before the cut off at noon today:

    @RochdalePioneers 334,974
    @Endillion 525,600
    @MightyAlex 700,000
    @Cyclefree 723,527
    @Eabhal 825,000
    @carnyx 854,217
    @Richard_Nabavi 896,322
    @Nigelb 925,001
    @Andy_JS 930,000
    @Northern_Al 963,451
    @MattW 986,000
    @geoffw 987,654
    @IshmaelZ 999,000
    @Pulpstar 1,000,000
    @Maffew 1,000,001
    @NerysHughes 1,000,001
    @SandyRentool 1,010,101
    @Fairliered 1,029,762
    @Beibheirli_C 1,048,575
    @Benpointer 1,048,576
    @IanB2 1,075,000
    @MaxPB 1,097,642
    @londonpubman 1,100,000
    @Ratters 1,191,428
    @flatlander 1,248,510
    @Richard_Tyndall 1,264,987
    @Cookie 1,346,242
    @pigeon 1,350,000
    @OldKingCole 1,389,347
    @LostPassword 1,572,864
    @Philip_Thompson 2,001,524

    Please let me know if your entry has been missed or misinterpreted.

    Daily updates will be given to show who has been knocked out by that day's data.

    Well done on pulling this together @Simon_Peach.

    @Pulpstar's a bit boxed in I see. 😳

    @Beibheirli_C - I saw that... (2^20)-1 indeed!
  • maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2021
    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    The data doesn't say that - because as I've been saying for the past 2 weeks omicron hasn't been around long enough anywhere to give us a valid dataset to work from.

    Everyone looks at posts saying it's milder / more severe but we don't have any valid data yet that actually tells us that.

    Compare for example Government statements and the Dr Paul Burton from Moderna below to what some other people are saying.
  • kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    I think it's referring to the sustained pressure on the UK NHS for months.
    Sustained pressure is a good thing. It flattens the sombrero.

    Every day that passes with sustained pressure in the past means a better off future.
    People will be flattening your sombrero, Philip, if you keep puffing so hard and relentlessly on the drivel pipe.
    You unhappy at uncomfortable truths being pointed out?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    Who should we believe - experts or a poster from Essex who believed that Bill Gates gets a royalty on every jab because he once read it on a dodgy website?
    We know that some members of SAGE have been leftwing in the past. We also know that vaccination and boosters are the most effective means of avoiding hospitalisation and on that the UK is still leading the way
    I would refer you to @FrancisUrquhart post below

    Dr Paul Burton, chief medical officer at Moderna, said he expects data in the coming days to show how well the Moderna booster improves protection against the Omicron variant.
    ...
    We certainly don’t have to panic, we have many many tools at our disposal, we’ve learnt so much about this virus over the last two years, and we can continue to fight it, but I think Omicron poses a real threat.

    When you look at the data in SA about 15% of people who are hospitalised are in the intensive care unit, and while there’s variability, if you look back earlier in the year, at a time of delta surge in August, those numbers are about the same, 15%.

    So while the mortality rate we are seeing right now is mercifully lower, I think as a disease it is a very fit virus and it’s severe."
    Hence the UK's high double vaccination rate and rapidly expanding booster programme will help reduce the hospitalisation and death rate from Omicron in the UK
  • But is Ange listening?

    @patrickkmaguire
    Sir Keir Starmer is addressing his frontbenchers via Zoom. He just told them: "I am not interested in every party member liking your tweets, I want you to speak to the public."
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    No one in SA has been saying it’s “all mild illness”. They’re saying that for the scale of the outbreak, the number of serious cases is far below what might have been expected.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    eek said:

    Unpopular said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    His ears look pinker than his lips!

    It does look like a normal room though. Apart from that damn' flag. WHY!!!
    It seems to be a recent political development. You might not have to shag the flag, but you need to show that you can at least get it up.

    Though these flags that politicians have seem to be of very high quality. Very rich, bold colours. Outside of Minister's offices, the Downing Street briefing room and now Starmer's spare bedroom, I don't think I've ever seen such luxurious looking flags.
    Jenny has left her lipstick on the bookcase?? So SKS wil now be sleeping in his spare bedroom with only a flag to keep him company!!
    It's not her brand.

    Think I'm joking - I know Jenny.
    Jenny who?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    Again - we don't have the dataset but what that anecdote says is that it may not be the mild disease none experts were claiming it was.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    A milder Covid-19 could still put thousands in hospital and just like previous strains different people = different outcomes.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    The data doesn't say that - because as I've been saying for the past 2 weeks omicron hasn't been around long enough anywhere to give us a valid dataset to work from.

    Everyone looks at posts saying it's milder / more severe but we don't have any valid data yet that actually tells us that.

    Compare for example Government statements and the Dr Paul Burton from Moderna below to what some other people are saying.
    The South African data does say that.

    And even if it isn't milder, then even more reason to say this is an emergency and standard peace time staffing ratios are an unattainable luxury. Build the capacity, then let demand decide how many patients each nurse will need to cover. The alternative is letting people die in the streets apparently.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    The thing is both can be true....it is why I worried about how much press the GP from South Africa has been getting pushing the "its mild" narrative.

    It can be statistically less dangerous in population terms, but still mean significant people suffer terribly from it, but that isn't how the public hear talk of milder disease. Same as original "90% only get mild disease" from Wuhan report, meant 90% didn't need to go to hospital, but the public took it as meaning oh I am going to get a cold.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Pagel's a bleeding idiot then, but we already knew that.

    Prof Reicher is a bleeding idiot too, but we already knew that too.

    The UK having high cases for months means we have more immunity than anywhere with low cases. Bloody morons!

    As bad as Boris is, the more these fools open their mouths the more Boris looks like he has the Wisdom of Solomon.
    I think this people are addicted to the fame and notoriety that Covid has given them and don't want it to end, and Omicron may be the end to this. Prof Pagel's comment is just plain silly.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    eek said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    Again - we don't have the dataset but what that anecdote says is that it may not be the mild disease none experts were claiming it was.
    It's so vague it isn't saying anything. It could be 10% of the chance of needing ICU, it could be 200%.
  • The government's Plan B will be enough to get England through Christmas, the deputy prime minister has said.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    eek said:

    Unpopular said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    His ears look pinker than his lips!

    It does look like a normal room though. Apart from that damn' flag. WHY!!!
    It seems to be a recent political development. You might not have to shag the flag, but you need to show that you can at least get it up.

    Though these flags that politicians have seem to be of very high quality. Very rich, bold colours. Outside of Minister's offices, the Downing Street briefing room and now Starmer's spare bedroom, I don't think I've ever seen such luxurious looking flags.
    Jenny has left her lipstick on the bookcase?? So SKS wil now be sleeping in his spare bedroom with only a flag to keep him company!!
    It's not her brand.

    Think I'm joking - I know Jenny.
    Jenny who?
    Jenny Chapman - former Darlington MP and currently Shadow Minister of State at the Cabinet Office
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    TOPPING said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
    I think he’s quite content to get votes through with the Labour Party. He knows his biggest ever poll bounce was due to the vaccine rollout. And so he is creating a war-time spirit to try and repeat the trick with the boosters.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    The data doesn't say that - because as I've been saying for the past 2 weeks omicron hasn't been around long enough anywhere to give us a valid dataset to work from.

    Everyone looks at posts saying it's milder / more severe but we don't have any valid data yet that actually tells us that.

    Compare for example Government statements and the Dr Paul Burton from Moderna below to what some other people are saying.
    Is the data from South Africa this morning not "valid"?
  • TOPPING said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
    Without wanting to sounds like HYUFD: Good!

    There must be an incredible proportion of the Tory non-payroll vote today that has signalled a willingness to revolt. Even if the vote isn't lost, its fantastic to see the backbenchers putting the Prime Minister on notice like that.

    Its a shame we haven't got an Opposition though. What a disgrace.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    The government's Plan B will be enough to get England through Christmas, the deputy prime minister has said.

    Oh, fuck...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    But is Ange listening?

    @patrickkmaguire
    Sir Keir Starmer is addressing his frontbenchers via Zoom. He just told them: "I am not interested in every party member liking your tweets, I want you to speak to the public."

    One thing Starmer can say is he now has a higher net approval with voters overall than Boris with Mori. However Boris also has a higher approval rating with Conservative voters than Starmer does with Labour voters in the same poll
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    RobD said:

    eek said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    Again - we don't have the dataset but what that anecdote says is that it may not be the mild disease none experts were claiming it was.
    It's so vague it isn't saying anything. It could be 10% of the chance of needing ICU, it could be 200%.
    one of the original claims was Omicron was infectious but because of that also mild - i.e. virtually no-one would require ICU - that was never likely to be the case.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    eek said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    Again - we don't have the dataset but what that anecdote says is that it may not be the mild disease none experts were claiming it was.
    What do you mean "no experts were claiming it was"? The South African Medical Association is claiming exactly that! They might be wrong, their data could be rubbish, but to say they aren't claiming it is palpable garbage.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    TOPPING said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
    Without wanting to sounds like HYUFD: Good!

    There must be an incredible proportion of the Tory non-payroll vote today that has signalled a willingness to revolt. Even if the vote isn't lost, its fantastic to see the backbenchers putting the Prime Minister on notice like that.

    Its a shame we haven't got an Opposition though. What a disgrace.
    SNP don't count? Unless you mean HMO as in Largest Opposing Party?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    But is Ange listening?

    @patrickkmaguire
    Sir Keir Starmer is addressing his frontbenchers via Zoom. He just told them: "I am not interested in every party member liking your tweets, I want you to speak to the public."

    He's growing on me. The problem remains that he can't assemble a front bench of people who aren't completely obsessed with every party member liking their tweets.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    The thing is both can be true....it is why I worried about how much press the GP from South Africa has been getting pushing the "its mild" narrative.

    It can be statistically less dangerous in population terms, but still mean significant people suffer terribly from it, but that isn't how the public hear talk of milder disease. Same as original "90% only get mild disease" from Wuhan report, meant 90% didn't need to go to hospital, but the public took it as meaning oh I am going to get a cold.
    What the hell are the South Africans supposed to say? Their experiences and Delta tell them that it's milder in terms of outcomes than Delta and indeed the original strain. If they think that, they have to say it. They are not "pushing" anything, rather they are laying down their assessment as professionals in the field.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
    Without wanting to sounds like HYUFD: Good!

    There must be an incredible proportion of the Tory non-payroll vote today that has signalled a willingness to revolt. Even if the vote isn't lost, its fantastic to see the backbenchers putting the Prime Minister on notice like that.

    Its a shame we haven't got an Opposition though. What a disgrace.
    SNP don't count? Unless you mean HMO as in Largest Opposing Party?
    So the SNP are going to vote against English regulations at the same time as Nicola is announcing even more draconian steps in Scotland? Surely not.
  • Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
    Without wanting to sounds like HYUFD: Good!

    There must be an incredible proportion of the Tory non-payroll vote today that has signalled a willingness to revolt. Even if the vote isn't lost, its fantastic to see the backbenchers putting the Prime Minister on notice like that.

    Its a shame we haven't got an Opposition though. What a disgrace.
    SNP don't count? Unless you mean HMO as in Largest Opposing Party?
    I mean Labour. I am not sure whether or how the SNP are voting today.

    Labour could have said that while they support restrictions, there needs to be economic support to go with it. So that unless [insert demand here] is done by the Chancellor they'd have to vote down the restrictions.

    With over 80 Tory rebels the government would either lose the vote, or have to meet Labour's demands.

    They could have demanded more support for affected businesses, the return of the £20 uplift or anything else. Instead they've just given the government a blank cheque with no Opposition, no scrutiny, no demands.

    Weak, weak, weak.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    Nigelb said:

    One thing I'm glad we don't lead the world in.

    For many Korean high school seniors, winter is the season for plastic surgery
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2021/12/281_320444.html

    You so sure we are not catching up?

    I don’t want anything. When I was younger I did think of bigger boobs, but I’m happy now.

    Maybe I’m happy now because I am in a relationship. Maybe the driver for plastic surgery is wanting to be pretty and have nice things and to be loved up not lonely?
    Maybe.
    But Korean attitudes look a bit unhealthy to me - note that the most popular eyelid surgery seems to be in pursuit of an idealised western look.
    They also have very deep seated cultural taboos against any kind of physical disability.
  • Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Did anyone else notice the Supreme (NYC skateboarding/clothing company) branded box on Starmer's bookshelf?


    It looks like the box that their lipstick comes in..


    This is at least as interesting as Rishi's flipflops.

    I now need the uncropped picture to check whether Sir Keir is wearing lippy...
    So we now know Mrs Starmer's preferred brand of lipstick. What else can we deduce from the picture??
    How do we know it’s hers not his? 💋
    Also if it is his, is it possibly colourless outdoor lip balm for walking in winter etc.? I'm not an expert in lipstick, you see.
    Not that brand..

    "Supreme has officially gotten into the beauty products game with their FW20 lipstick collaboration with Pat McGrath Labs. This MatteTrance lipstick was released in an exclusive red pigment shade that was developed just for Supreme."
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    What a load of rubbish.

    The vast majority of the UK population are double vaccinated, most South Africans are not vaccinated.

    The UK also has a higher percentage of adults already having had their boosters then any other major nation
    Who should we believe - experts or a poster from Essex who believed that Bill Gates gets a royalty on every jab because he once read it on a dodgy website?
    Surprisingly, this time I'm going with the poster from Essex with whom I rarely agree. The comments from Prager make no sense scientifically. With regards to omicron, everyone is starting at the same level of (omicron) infections - zero.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Boris Johnson now more unpopular than any of his four predecessors at the same point, according to Ipsos-Mori

    From the Spectator data hub:- https://data.spectator.co.uk/category/politics https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1470742562214400008/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    eek said:

    RobD said:

    eek said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    Again - we don't have the dataset but what that anecdote says is that it may not be the mild disease none experts were claiming it was.
    It's so vague it isn't saying anything. It could be 10% of the chance of needing ICU, it could be 200%.
    one of the original claims was Omicron was infectious but because of that also mild - i.e. virtually no-one would require ICU - that was never likely to be the case.
    No, but the evidence is that it is milder (see the latest SA research I referred to in the PT). But very transmissible and with higher propensity to infect the vaccinated or recovered. Thus there's a greater pool of infected and hence potentially more serious cases as an absolute number if lower as a proportion.

    The good news arising from these latest findings - if accurate - is that the latest wave should blow through very quickly and leave us with populations of high resistance. Thus not too far into next year things could be looking a lot better. So-called 'Spanish flu' blew through in three waves, which is a hopeful precedent.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Sounds extremely promising:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/effectiveness-pfizers-covid-pill-confirmed-analysis-company-says-rcna8662

    "Additional data from Pfizer's clinical trial of its oral Covid-19 antiviral drug confirm the treatment's high level of effectiveness, the company said in a news release Tuesday.

    In the final analysis of its Phase 2/3 clinical trial, the antiviral, called Paxlovid, was found to be 89 percent effective at preventing high-risk people from being hospitalized or dying from Covid, the company said."
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,660
    Apparently, after his dull as dishwater speech last night the latest go to lines from the Starmer cult are ‘pitch perfect’ and ‘honest’.
    Do they somehow think we can’t hear his boring drivel and are unaware of the lies he utters?
  • Scott_xP said:

    The government's Plan B will be enough to get England through Christmas, the deputy prime minister has said.

    Oh, fuck...
    Post xmas lockdown incoming.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    The thing is both can be true....it is why I worried about how much press the GP from South Africa has been getting pushing the "its mild" narrative.

    It can be statistically less dangerous in population terms, but still mean significant people suffer terribly from it, but that isn't how the public hear talk of milder disease. Same as original "90% only get mild disease" from Wuhan report, meant 90% didn't need to go to hospital, but the public took it as meaning oh I am going to get a cold.
    What the hell are the South Africans supposed to say? Their experiences and Delta tell them that it's milder in terms of outcomes than Delta and indeed the original strain. If they think that, they have to say it. They are not "pushing" anything, rather they are laying down their assessment as professionals in the field.
    That was Dr Coetzee's thing yesterday, "why would I be saying this if it was not true?"

    People seem to think that all SA Doctors and data providers are in on the con the world on the seriousness of Omicron game.

    SA had a very controlled and severe lockdown for Delta, they have done nothing for Omicron.
  • RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    The thing is both can be true....it is why I worried about how much press the GP from South Africa has been getting pushing the "its mild" narrative.

    It can be statistically less dangerous in population terms, but still mean significant people suffer terribly from it, but that isn't how the public hear talk of milder disease. Same as original "90% only get mild disease" from Wuhan report, meant 90% didn't need to go to hospital, but the public took it as meaning oh I am going to get a cold.
    What the hell are the South Africans supposed to say? Their experiences and Delta tell them that it's milder in terms of outcomes than Delta and indeed the original strain. If they think that, they have to say it. They are not "pushing" anything, rather they are laying down their assessment as professionals in the field.
    The thing is that we saw in India the horrific images of hospitals collapsing, doctors crying out for oxygen, funeral pyres in the streets and so on.

    Italy in February 2000 and India a year later provided utterly horrific imagery. There's nothing like that coming out of South Africa, is there?
  • Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Shocked I tell you, absolutely shocked, on her take...LOCKDOWN NOW....

    Prof Reicher says people should be clearly told "don't socialise" or govt could legislate to ensure they do. Reicher says govt should use any time during restrictions to make environments safer, i.e. ventilation etc. If it doesn't it will have "squandered" that time

    iSAGE are back with a bang. We need 12 years more Lockdown until every home has been fitted with high grade ventilation systems...
    Nobody is arguing for lockdown forever, even people who seem to be a bit shrieky.

    Reality is that we have a valid point here - months of 40k new cases a day is not a positive...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson now more unpopular than any of his four predecessors at the same point, according to Ipsos-Mori

    From the Spectator data hub:- https://data.spectator.co.uk/category/politics https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1470742562214400008/photo/1

    Wrong, Brown was more unpopular in late 2009 on that chart
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited December 2021

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    The thing is both can be true....it is why I worried about how much press the GP from South Africa has been getting pushing the "its mild" narrative.

    It can be statistically less dangerous in population terms, but still mean significant people suffer terribly from it, but that isn't how the public hear talk of milder disease. Same as original "90% only get mild disease" from Wuhan report, meant 90% didn't need to go to hospital, but the public took it as meaning oh I am going to get a cold.
    What the hell are the South Africans supposed to say? Their experiences and Delta tell them that it's milder in terms of outcomes than Delta and indeed the original strain. If they think that, they have to say it. They are not "pushing" anything, rather they are laying down their assessment as professionals in the field.
    but they don't actually know that.

    Remember they only sequenced Omicron 3 weeks ago and cases started increasing 10 days or so ago.

    The time frame between initial illness and needing hospital admission means that the first time you will have a relative accurate viewpoint on severity isn't for another 2-4 weeks.

    Anyone talking about severity now isn't paying proper attention to Covid's lifecycle.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Downing Street’s public position is there is a “tidal wave” and “huge spike” of Omicron cases coming but the PM is not considering further measures beyond Plan B and more boosters. 🧐
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1470743202974031888
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson now more unpopular than any of his four predecessors at the same point, according to Ipsos-Mori

    From the Spectator data hub:- https://data.spectator.co.uk/category/politics https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1470742562214400008/photo/1

    Even by 2019 Boris was less popular than Corbyn had been in 2017. His personal election-winning magic is a myth; 2019 was mostly anti-Corbynism plus GBD.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    jonny83 said:

    Sounds extremely promising:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/effectiveness-pfizers-covid-pill-confirmed-analysis-company-says-rcna8662

    "Additional data from Pfizer's clinical trial of its oral Covid-19 antiviral drug confirm the treatment's high level of effectiveness, the company said in a news release Tuesday.

    In the final analysis of its Phase 2/3 clinical trial, the antiviral, called Paxlovid, was found to be 89 percent effective at preventing high-risk people from being hospitalized or dying from Covid, the company said."

    A question totally missed by the media, the government have ordered loads of these anti-viral treatments....do we have any, if not when are they coming and what's the plan to distribute them? Because remember you need to start taking them within hours of getting symptoms for them to be effective.

    Its no good if I have to make a GP appointment, then get them to prescribe them etc...its all too late.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    May I point out anyone in hospital can't be described as "mild".
    Oxygen or no.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    EXCLUSIVE: Big doomsday warning from Whitty and co to Cabinet that some hospitals could be so short staffed that they face closing doors by Jan 15th — pubs, shops and restaurants also forced to close due to lack omicron staff shortages.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/news-health/17036536/hospitals-overwhelmed-weeks-could-close/
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    Pulpstar said:
    Do policies like this mean that more people can buy houses? Because my instinct is that those who get in early may benefit but the the barrier just increases to the new borrowing limits.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    jonny83 said:

    Sounds extremely promising:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/effectiveness-pfizers-covid-pill-confirmed-analysis-company-says-rcna8662

    "Additional data from Pfizer's clinical trial of its oral Covid-19 antiviral drug confirm the treatment's high level of effectiveness, the company said in a news release Tuesday.

    In the final analysis of its Phase 2/3 clinical trial, the antiviral, called Paxlovid, was found to be 89 percent effective at preventing high-risk people from being hospitalized or dying from Covid, the company said."

    A question totally missed by the media, the government have ordered loads of these anti-viral treatments....do we have any, if not when are they coming and what's the plan to distribute them?

    Because remember you need to start taking them within hours of getting symptoms for them to be effective.
    Didn't MaxPB have the numbers a couple of weeks ago when the purchase was announced.

    The issue is really 1 of how do we ensure they are available quickly enough given the timeframe in which treatment has to be started.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Shocked I tell you, absolutely shocked, on her take...LOCKDOWN NOW....

    Prof Reicher says people should be clearly told "don't socialise" or govt could legislate to ensure they do. Reicher says govt should use any time during restrictions to make environments safer, i.e. ventilation etc. If it doesn't it will have "squandered" that time

    iSAGE are back with a bang. We need 12 years more Lockdown until every home has been fitted with high grade ventilation systems...
    Nobody is arguing for lockdown forever, even people who seem to be a bit shrieky.

    Reality is that we have a valid point here - months of 40k new cases a day is not a positive...
    You've been wrong for months. It is a fantastic positive.

    You still seem to fail to understand that it was an exit wave too. It was both an exit (from restrictions) and a wave (since the 40k was with schools closed, then schools open, without an exponential increase when schools reopened).
  • DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    eek said:

    maaarsh said:

    Just been for booster - queuing for a drop in centre that also takes bookings is a VERY frustrating experience.

    Anyway, given the RSA data out this morning, if hospitalisations are much less likely to need ICU, surely now is the time to be reopening nighingale hospitals with very thin staffing ratios to deal with all the low key hospitalisations and leave real hospitals for the hopefully few serious cases.

    That requires nurses the NHS doesn't have.

    When people talk about bed crisis / ward closures it's not because of beds breaking - it's a lack of staff to do the work.
    That's why I said thinning ratios. If this is a crisis then I'm afraid they need to make some uncomfortable choices.

    The data suggests if there is a tidal wave of hospitalisations, they will skew milder than before. So create facilities with lots of beds but half the usual staffing levels and make the best of it - or if it isn't serious enough for hard choices like that, don't flap around trying to act like the world is ending.
    Bingo!

    And get rid of the distancing that's reduced capacity within the NHS too.

    "Oh we have a capacity issue due to this virus, why don't we reduce capacity further, that will help!"
    Nightingales would significantly reduce hospital pressure but acting as triage for marginal cases who just want to know assistance is nearby whilst they're struggling to breathe, but don't actually need intensive intervention yet. Far more bang for buck on the scarce human resource limting factor.
    Unless...Boris' intention really is to front it out and do nothing more than get boosters.

    I'm not sure any legislation could be passed right now so unless Boris cedes government to the Labour Party he will have to start formulating and following policies that please his own parliamentary party.
    Without wanting to sounds like HYUFD: Good!

    There must be an incredible proportion of the Tory non-payroll vote today that has signalled a willingness to revolt. Even if the vote isn't lost, its fantastic to see the backbenchers putting the Prime Minister on notice like that.

    Its a shame we haven't got an Opposition though. What a disgrace.
    SNP don't count? Unless you mean HMO as in Largest Opposing Party?
    So the SNP are going to vote against English regulations at the same time as Nicola is announcing even more draconian steps in Scotland? Surely not.
    "Ah but the restrictions announced by the Scottish Government are logical and measured, unlike the knee-jerk gibberish from Westminster. I mean, vaxports! What a stupid proposal"
  • Apparently, after his dull as dishwater speech last night the latest go to lines from the Starmer cult are ‘pitch perfect’ and ‘honest’.
    Do they somehow think we can’t hear his boring drivel and are unaware of the lies he utters?

    All the best lefties are furious that he's besmirched the party's name with the horrendous adjective "patriotic".
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    Without a comparison to Delta, that anecdote is meaningless.
    The thing is both can be true....it is why I worried about how much press the GP from South Africa has been getting pushing the "its mild" narrative.

    It can be statistically less dangerous in population terms, but still mean significant people suffer terribly from it, but that isn't how the public hear talk of milder disease. Same as original "90% only get mild disease" from Wuhan report, meant 90% didn't need to go to hospital, but the public took it as meaning oh I am going to get a cold.
    What the hell are the South Africans supposed to say? Their experiences and Delta tell them that it's milder in terms of outcomes than Delta and indeed the original strain. If they think that, they have to say it. They are not "pushing" anything, rather they are laying down their assessment as professionals in the field.
    Indeed. For any individual, being milder (on average) is good news, since it tilts the odds of suffering only a minor illness more heavily in our favour. For populations and for healthcare, the transmissibility and greater infectiveness for the vaccinated is less good news, since there'll be a lot more infected people, a proportion of whom will still be seriously affected.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    dixiedean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Director at a London hospital says their covid admissions are now nearly all omicron, and there has been a big increase in recent days.
    Early days but from one observation, some are needing high-flow oxygen and ICU, not all 'mild illness'.

    https://twitter.com/Davewwest/status/1470736306867253254
    https://twitter.com/HSJnews/status/1470726182261952512

    May I point out anyone in hospital can't be described as "mild".
    Oxygen or no.
    And why would you go to hospital suffering from Covid unless it was for oxygen?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Shocked I tell you, absolutely shocked, on her take...LOCKDOWN NOW....

    Prof Reicher says people should be clearly told "don't socialise" or govt could legislate to ensure they do. Reicher says govt should use any time during restrictions to make environments safer, i.e. ventilation etc. If it doesn't it will have "squandered" that time

    iSAGE are back with a bang. We need 12 years more Lockdown until every home has been fitted with high grade ventilation systems...
    Nobody is arguing for lockdown forever, even people who seem to be a bit shrieky.

    Reality is that we have a valid point here - months of 40k new cases a day is not a positive...
    iSAGE at every turn have said no no we need longer for restrictions to work. Zero COVID and all that. As I say, they are like the MPs in parliament who said well if only such and such was shorted we would then finally vote Brexit through, but of course they never would and when they eventually got opportunity to make a choice between options they even rejected that.

    They would have always had an excuse not to release all restrictions.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Prof Pagel says UK may be in a worse position than South Africa as SA started from a low base and UK "has had high cases for months"

    Contacts should be limited, she strongly argues. Prof Reicher agrees and says cases could end up "catastrophically high" on current trajectory

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1470732322911801353

    Shocked I tell you, absolutely shocked, on her take...LOCKDOWN NOW....

    Prof Reicher says people should be clearly told "don't socialise" or govt could legislate to ensure they do. Reicher says govt should use any time during restrictions to make environments safer, i.e. ventilation etc. If it doesn't it will have "squandered" that time

    iSAGE are back with a bang. We need 12 years more Lockdown until every home has been fitted with high grade ventilation systems...
    Nobody is arguing for lockdown forever, even people who seem to be a bit shrieky.

    Reality is that we have a valid point here - months of 40k new cases a day is not a positive...
    You've been wrong for months. It is a fantastic positive.

    You still seem to fail to understand that it was an exit wave too. It was both an exit (from restrictions) and a wave (since the 40k was with schools closed, then schools open, without an exponential increase when schools reopened).
    Yes, this is a new definition of the words "exit" and "wave".

    As you wish.
This discussion has been closed.