The only way for Boris to hang on and win again would be to start publicly saying he is ignoring sage and lockdown extremists and say all restrictions are being lifted - he has about until the end of Jan I think to do that
What on earth makes you think that would improve his ratings? Quite the opposite, as all the relevant opinion polling confirms.
I accept you have sincere views on the approach to covid but public opinion is not with you.
just go into any Macdonalds or a pub and see how popular restrictions are in reality (not some opinion poll that can easiliy be manipulated or people feeling they have to say something virtuous
I mean I've already said he's finished. The ITV expose saw to that. But I genuinely can't see what's supposed to be so outrageous about the Mirror pic?
If anything it might back up the idea that he, personally, was sticking to lockdown rules?
At the time London was in tier 2 restrictions which banned any social gathering indoors of more than two people. At the time, Covid cases were soaring. On December 15 last year, 459 people died from coronavirus, while another 33,828 were infected.
I see that some people on PB still have not learned the basic rule of politics that "Perception is reality"
It’s not exactly a photo of Johnson in a room with 30-40 people all quaffing champagne though, is it? Just assertions of groups of people.
That is the point - it does not need to be accurate, it just needs to reinforce the narrative. Most people do not care enough to fact check anything that confirms their prejudices.
As long as the photo lets them ask "Who are those people near Boris?" then it feeds the narrative
Also, no one is wearing a mask and this was at a time when masks were mandated as well.
a source claimed: “It was just part of the culture. The PM turned a blind eye. He seemed totally comfortable with gatherings.”
This I think is the truth of the matter and what I have been suggesting. All those people were working long hours day in day out, pubs shut etc and a culture built up with boozing in the office. And Boris just gave them the nudge nudge wink wink that they were doing a jolly good job and I never saw nufffting. And then the same with the Christmas party.
And that is why he is totally screwed. If he sacks everybody, they say the boss said it was ok.
You could still work in the office with others even during lockdown if doing essential work
Well and obviously staff just as #10, SAGE people etc were exempt for obvious reasons. As I say, I bet what happened was all those people usually go boozing after work, instead working long hours, it became takeaways, drink with dinner, then became a culture of drink everybody.....and spiralled from there.
All fine then. Phew.
In grown up land, "a culture of drink everybody" is deprecated. It really is. If you don't understand that, that says nothing about the real world.
"Nothing to see here!" cry the Bozo apologists in unison.
I mean I've already said he's finished. The ITV expose saw to that. But I genuinely can't see what's supposed to be so outrageous about the Mirror pic?
If anything it might back up the idea that he, personally, was sticking to lockdown rules?
Boris Johnson repeatedly denies any parties took place in Downing Street and then if they did he had no knowledge of them then footage emerges of him being quiz master at one of these parties.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
a source claimed: “It was just part of the culture. The PM turned a blind eye. He seemed totally comfortable with gatherings.”
This I think is the truth of the matter and what I have been suggesting. All those people were working long hours day in day out, pubs shut etc and a culture built up with boozing in the office. And Boris just gave them the nudge nudge wink wink that they were doing a jolly good job and I never saw nufffting. And then the same with the Christmas party.
And that is why he is totally screwed. If he sacks everybody, they say the boss said it was ok.
You could still work in the office with others even during lockdown if doing essential work
Well and obviously staff just as #10, SAGE people etc were exempt for obvious reasons. As I say, I bet what happened was all those people usually go boozing after work, instead working long hours, it became takeaways, drink with dinner, then became a culture of drink everybody.....and spiralled from there.
All fine then. Phew.
In grown up land, "a culture of drink everybody" is deprecated. It really is. If you don't understand that, that says nothing about the real world.
That's not what I said....I said I bet that is how it started among those that do go drinking, and Boris encouraged it, or very least never discouraged people doing that.
I would say I would say I would be more than slightly worried about people making important decision on the booze while doing that.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
The only way for Boris to hang on and win again would be to start publicly saying he is ignoring sage and lockdown extremists and say all restrictions are being lifted - he has about until the end of Jan I think to do that
What on earth makes you think that would improve his ratings? Quite the opposite, as all the relevant opinion polling confirms.
I accept you have sincere views on the approach to covid but public opinion is not with you.
just go into any Macdonalds or a pub and see how popular restrictions are in reality (not some opinion poll that can easiliy be manipulated or people feeling they have to say something virtuous
Colin Wilde, the managing director of Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham, said he had had “a handful” of cancellations of Christmas parties and wedding celebrations booked for December at the 20 pubs the company operates across the east Midlands.
The media exists to sell panic is how I'd explain that. A handful across 20 sites? So next to no impact then?
Shame that a tiny minority felt they had to act like that, but hopefully it stay just a handful though no doubt the media would love to blow it up to being even more.
Also from your link: Hugh Osmond, the founder of Punch Taverns, said: “We are seeing that some of the people in large organisations who organise bigger events are taking the cautious view because I guess they feel some overriding responsibility. We are not seeing that in young people.”
Nothing to explain. People don't want to change, because they know there's no reason to do so.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
Hey Rob - long time no speak. What do you think of the leader of your beloved (vile, corrupt and incompetent) Tory party?
Just shows even lawmakers dont rate covid enough to keep to the rules they make about it. Get rid of the rules , its an illness like flu
Covid like flu? Either you are bonkers, or the whole world is bonkers because of its over-reaction. I know which I think.
well it is . The fatality rate is no higher and flu is killing as many people as covid. And if we are going to personally insult then to me it is bonkers to destroy education, wreck the economy and peoples businesses and jobs , create untold loneliness and environmental mess from masks for the sake of not letting the NHS get a bit stretched .That to me is bonkers
"Nothing to see here!" cry the Bozo apologists in unison.
I mean I've already said he's finished. The ITV expose saw to that. But I genuinely can't see what's supposed to be so outrageous about the Mirror pic?
If anything it might back up the idea that he, personally, was sticking to lockdown rules?
Boris Johnson repeatedly denies any parties took place in Downing Street and then if they did he had no knowledge of them then footage emerges of him being quiz master at one of these parties.
Even the ‘wine and cheese’ excuse conjured up an image of something a little more, well, merry?
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
"Nothing to see here!" cry the Bozo apologists in unison.
I mean I've already said he's finished. The ITV expose saw to that. But I genuinely can't see what's supposed to be so outrageous about the Mirror pic?
If anything it might back up the idea that he, personally, was sticking to lockdown rules?
Boris Johnson repeatedly denies any parties took place in Downing Street and then if they did he had no knowledge of them then footage emerges of him being quiz master at one of these parties.
But what about that photograph shows that he is being quiz master, or is at a party? I yield to no one in my contempt for the FLSOJ™, but this attack is dickless.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Lol! You couldn't make it up.
"How dare you ask me to support my wild assertions with evidence!"
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
If the photo is anything to go by I am glad I don't get invited to any #10 parties, they look a bit shit....looks like the only alcohol on offer is via a bottle of hand sanitiser.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
I’m not pretending to be an expert, but I can find a number of academic studies concluding that mask wearing reduces transmission in various real life situations but haven’t seen any concluding “no difference”. Can you link to any?
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
A slightly different claim, but also one I am not convinced of.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Do stop being a c--t. The evidence is ample, in real world studies.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
If the photo is anything to go by I am glad I don't get invited to any #10 parties, they look a bit shit....looks like the only alcohol on offer is via a bottle of hand sanitiser.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
Right err ok -
Do I have to spell it out to you? You claimed "there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting)". I'd like to see some references to scientific studies demonstrating this.
PBers will no doubt be shocked down to their socks to learn the following:
That the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 was amended (or rather supplemented) the next year by an amendment to 25 Geo II c.31, an act concerning distemper in cattle, to specify the date of annual local elections in Chester, by moving them (the elections, not the cattle) forward by one week.
I have no doubt JRM is poltting to repeal the 1750 Act that foisted European calendars on us.
"Give us back our eleven days!" - slogan on Boris Johnson Battle Bus Mark II
We'd need 13 days, now, to revert to the good old Julian calendar. Just goes to prove that if you let a problem fester it gets worse rather than better.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
To be fair he did say “there is a lot of evidence [mask wearing] makes no difference” - asking about that evidence isn’t asking for proof of a negative.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
Rather better at asking questions than answering them.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country took a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Looks like more than two to me.
Wait till you see all the press conferences they held with more than two people in a room.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
Right err ok -
Do I have to spell it out to you? You claimed "there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting)". I'd like to see some references to scientific studies demonstrating this.
why not open your eyes and look at Scotland or Wales or Austria ? You seem a little pompous thats all
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
My work did a zoom quiz last Christmas. Everyone was on their own in their own homes.
Number Ten holds a zoom quiz. Everyone is in Number Ten and gets to spend time drinking together.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Looks like more than two to me.
Wait till you see all the press conferences they held with more than two people in a room.
Regulations were NOT about working, but partying - right? And what's pictured is a party - right?
The only way for Boris to hang on and win again would be to start publicly saying he is ignoring sage and lockdown extremists and say all restrictions are being lifted - he has about until the end of Jan I think to do that
What on earth makes you think that would improve his ratings? Quite the opposite, as all the relevant opinion polling confirms.
I accept you have sincere views on the approach to covid but public opinion is not with you.
just go into any Macdonalds or a pub and see how popular restrictions are in reality (not some opinion poll that can easiliy be manipulated or people feeling they have to say something virtuous
Colin Wilde, the managing director of Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham, said he had had “a handful” of cancellations of Christmas parties and wedding celebrations booked for December at the 20 pubs the company operates across the east Midlands.
The media exists to sell panic is how I'd explain that. A handful across 20 sites? So next to no impact then?
Shame that a tiny minority felt they had to act like that, but hopefully it stay just a handful though no doubt the media would love to blow it up to being even more.
Also from your link: Hugh Osmond, the founder of Punch Taverns, said: “We are seeing that some of the people in large organisations who organise bigger events are taking the cautious view because I guess they feel some overriding responsibility. We are not seeing that in young people.”
Nothing to explain. People don't want to change, because they know there's no reason to do so.
It'll be interesting to see the Q3 hospitality figures when they emerge. Many people voting with their feet is my impression but that's just anecdotal.
For clarity, Mrs P and I haven't cancelled our two December theatre trips but we're happy to abide by the mask wearing & proof of vaccination requirements. It's not ideal but seems sensible based on the scientific uncertainty.
My original comment was to point out to to @state_go_away that the people currently in pub and MAcDonalds have self-selected to be there, so may well have low risk concerns themselves. That's their right but it doesn't make them very representative.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Looks like more than two to me.
Not by many. And they work with him. Now if there was a photo of him boozing up with 70 odd people claimed...
This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
My work did a zoom quiz last Christmas. Everyone was on their own in their own homes.
Number Ten holds a zoom quiz. Everyone is in Number Ten and gets to spend time drinking together.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
I love "mask mandates" and "over the long term". You add those qualifications in because you haven't the balls to contradict the obvious truth, that masks work.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
Right err ok -
Do I have to spell it out to you? You claimed "there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting)". I'd like to see some references to scientific studies demonstrating this.
why not open your eyes and look at Scotland or Wales or Austria ? You seem a little pompous thats all
That's not how you demonstrate if masks are or are not effective. You need to control for the myriad of other factors. I'm still waiting for this study showing they have no effect. I mean we've been using them for a couple of years now, you'd have thought there would at least be one or two studies on the matter.
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Do stop being a c--t. The evidence is ample, in real world studies.
you are drunk and abusive - thats three times you have foul mouthed me - calm down and i suggest YOU leave (not me)
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
Apparently this quiz-party was three days before the party which didn't happen. It begins to sound like they were having parties almost every night.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Do stop being a c--t. The evidence is ample, in real world studies.
you are drunk and abusive - thats three times you have foul mouthed me - calm down and i suggest YOU leave (not me)
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Looks like more than two to me.
Wait till you see all the press conferences they held with more than two people in a room.
Oh don't be pathetic Rob!
By the way, it's great to see the Tories implode - couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Looks like more than two to me.
Not by many. And they work with him. Now if there was a photo of him boozing up with 70 odd people claimed...
This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
It may make people question how many office staff in the mirror, BBC, Sky, and other newspaper offices acted the same
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?
Looks like more than two to me.
Not by many. And they work with him. Now if there was a photo of him boozing up with 70 odd people claimed...
This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
It may make people question how many office staff in the mirror, BBC, Sky, and other newspaper offices acted the same
I think we all know the answer to that....same way as the pearl clutching over Gove on the Columbian marching powder (at parties they were also there).
But if you set the rules.....and its the cover up that does you.
Two serious proper questions. Firstly How do we think the media narrative will go this week? For things to have legs, new and newsworthy things need to emerge don’t they? The wallpaper one is over now with geet not resigning. Party gate running out of steam in coming days as a news item? Restrictions rebellion has been muted by salami votes. And covid is going to dominate news agenda, and possibly the Ukraine invasion. Obviously what happens Thursday may make a difference. Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents? And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
From what can see, the ones on here who have condemned BJ for his previous video have said the Mirror story is sh1t while those who would criticise BJ whatever he did all tell us how awful it was.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
THESE pics don't show that. Perhaps more to come? Wouldn't bet against that possibility.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
Different party from the one on the 18th. But I agree with others, this one’s pretty weak and may even help him by confusing people into thinking this was the big no10 bash and was just a handful of people sitting in a zoom meeting.
My theory about this last week is that it was really the Paterson affair and the arrogance of the attempt to change the rules that did the damage. It softened things up for the sucker punch this week. In all respects what the Tories did over Paterson was worse than the lying about the party.
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
Rather better at asking questions than answering them.
We know that from watching PMQs.
As for the story... Had Johnson said "Charity zoom quiz" on day 1, that would have squashed the story.
He didn't, because he's surprisingly foolish and surprisingly cowardly.
So, I guess this won't persuade anyone either way. But a two part question to finish with:
Does anything just published indicate that the PM has unambiguously lied?
Have been away for three hours. So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about? Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick? Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
He hosted a Zoom Quiz.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
Rather better at asking questions than answering them.
We know that from watching PMQs.
As for the story... Had Johnson said "Charity zoom quiz" on day 1, that would have squashed the story.
He didn't, because he's surprisingly foolish and surprisingly cowardly.
So, I guess this won't persuade anyone either way. But a two part question to finish with:
Does anything just published indicate that the PM has unambiguously lied?
And for a bonus point: If he has, does it matter?
I don't think it would have squashed the story because this is an event from another day.
A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.
Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.
If true that likely dooms them if it emerges who they are, the Tories rarely reward overt disloyalty to the leader of the day as Heseltine and Portillo and Gove found to their cost in their leadership bids
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
THESE pics don't show that. Perhaps more to come? Wouldn't bet against that possibility.
Maybe, maybe not. If this is the big Sunday splash then it's a huge letdown. Tbh, with the by-election next week if The Mirror had a picture of Boris with a glass of champagne in hand milling about in a dark room with 30 other people they'd have released it already.
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
If this his Cummo you’d expect him to know that each revelation needs to be more shocking than the previous.
Just shows even lawmakers dont rate covid enough to keep to the rules they make about it. Get rid of the rules , its an illness like flu
Covid like flu? Either you are bonkers, or the whole world is bonkers because of its over-reaction. I know which I think.
well it is . The fatality rate is no higher and flu is killing as many people as covid. And if we are going to personally insult then to me it is bonkers to destroy education, wreck the economy and peoples businesses and jobs , create untold loneliness and environmental mess from masks for the sake of not letting the NHS get a bit stretched .That to me is bonkers
Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.
Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
If this his Cummo you’d expect him to know that each revelation needs to be more shocking than the previous.
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
Well the WHO did not recommend mask wearing last year as they thought not effective . As it turns out they are right given masks dont stop people getting covid (we all will).What they stop is human interaction though and thats a shame and anyone who does not take that into account , well they need err citing
Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.
Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
Citation needed.
What?
Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
You're wrong.
Take vaccines for instance, they only get approved once there is a vast study with the onus on the vaccine to prove that it does work. Only once it is proven that the vaccine does work can it be distributed.
So if someone is claiming vaccines don't work, they can be dismissed because the positive proof exists. But if vaccines were being rolled out without the positive proof, then they would be quite justified in saying that.
The onus is always on those making the positive claim. The positive claim is proven for the vaccines.
A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.
Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.
Deffo. What is pathetic is the low to nil shock value of the dross the Mirror have doubtless paid £££ for, given what is obviously available when you look at the Hancock shagging pix.
Two serious proper questions. Firstly How do we think the media narrative will go this week? For things to have legs, new and newsworthy things need to emerge don’t they? The wallpaper one is over now with geet not resigning. Party gate running out of steam in coming days as a news item? Restrictions rebellion has been muted by salami votes. And covid is going to dominate news agenda, and possibly the Ukraine invasion. Obviously what happens Thursday may make a difference. Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents? And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
The Afghanistan story is also a bit too old now to come back, having been drowned out by the party.
Next week it’s N Shropshire. That’s either going to be the coup de grâce, or a reprieve that sees him safe for now.
Comments
How do you explain this:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/01/uk-hospitality-firms-hit-by-christmas-party-cancellations-over-omicron-fears
or this:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-super-spreader-office-christmas-parties-abandoned-qjwnzxc2n
or this:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/11/25/office-christmas-parties-risk-pub-bookings-struggle/
At the time London was in tier 2 restrictions which banned any social gathering indoors of more than two people. At the time, Covid cases were soaring. On December 15 last year, 459 people died from coronavirus, while another 33,828 were infected.
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1469792713461673992
As long as the photo lets them ask "Who are those people near Boris?" then it feeds the narrative
Also, no one is wearing a mask and this was at a time when masks were mandated as well.
In grown up land, "a culture of drink everybody" is deprecated. It really is. If you don't understand that, that says nothing about the real world.
https://twitter.com/nickjbarlow/status/1469795056416706562
I would say I would say I would be more than slightly worried about people making important decision on the booze while doing that.
The media exists to sell panic is how I'd explain that. A handful across 20 sites? So next to no impact then?
Shame that a tiny minority felt they had to act like that, but hopefully it stay just a handful though no doubt the media would love to blow it up to being even more.
Also from your link: Hugh Osmond, the founder of Punch Taverns, said: “We are seeing that some of the people in large organisations who organise bigger events are taking the cautious view because I guess they feel some overriding responsibility. We are not seeing that in young people.”
Nothing to explain. People don't want to change, because they know there's no reason to do so.
A former PB Tory would love to know....
"How dare you ask me to support my wild assertions with evidence!"
If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
I had been assured that I did not host this quiz. But, in light of public concerns, I have asked the Cabinet Secretary to investigate whether I did
https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1469791080937922562
There is a lot to attack Boris on but this is beginning to look just silly
Everybody envisioned this....
https://twitter.com/Queen_UK/status/1469025930718892033?s=20
Looks like more than two to me.
If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?
The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
Number Ten holds a zoom quiz. Everyone is in Number Ten and gets to spend time drinking together.
Bit of a difference I think.
For clarity, Mrs P and I haven't cancelled our two December theatre trips but we're happy to abide by the mask wearing & proof of vaccination requirements. It's not ideal but seems sensible based on the scientific uncertainty.
My original comment was to point out to to @state_go_away that the people currently in pub and MAcDonalds have self-selected to be there, so may well have low risk concerns themselves. That's their right but it doesn't make them very representative.
This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
The Chinese just piss themselves at how poor many Western government approach to IT security is.
By the way, it's great to see the Tories implode - couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!
But if you set the rules.....and its the cover up that does you.
Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents?
And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.
I think I know which side I will go with.
My theory about this last week is that it was really the Paterson affair and the arrogance of the attempt to change the rules that did the damage. It softened things up for the sucker punch this week. In all respects what the Tories did over Paterson was worse than the lying about the party.
Huzzah!
As for the story... Had Johnson said "Charity zoom quiz" on day 1, that would have squashed the story.
He didn't, because he's surprisingly foolish and surprisingly cowardly.
So, I guess this won't persuade anyone either way. But a two part question to finish with:
Does anything just published indicate that the PM has unambiguously lied?
And for a bonus point:
If he has, does it matter?
Take vaccines for instance, they only get approved once there is a vast study with the onus on the vaccine to prove that it does work. Only once it is proven that the vaccine does work can it be distributed.
So if someone is claiming vaccines don't work, they can be dismissed because the positive proof exists. But if vaccines were being rolled out without the positive proof, then they would be quite justified in saying that.
The onus is always on those making the positive claim. The positive claim is proven for the vaccines.
Do I get to be a politico?
Of course there is evidence. An ill-disciplined captain doesn't run a tight ship.
Next week it’s N Shropshire. That’s either going to be the coup de grâce, or a reprieve that sees him safe for now.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-masks-idUSKBN29X2S5