Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The week that the polls turned against the Tories – politicalbetting.com

16791112

Comments

  • RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    Hey Rob - long time no speak. What do you think of the leader of your beloved (vile, corrupt and incompetent) Tory party?

    A former PB Tory would love to know....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    RobD said:

    EXCLUSIVE: Boris Johnson accused of personally breaking Covid laws by hosting a Christmas quiz in No10 last year - and we've got pictures

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1469790405449424903?s=20

    Just shows even lawmakers dont rate covid enough to keep to the rules they make about it. Get rid of the rules , its an illness like flu
    Covid like flu? Either you are bonkers, or the whole world is bonkers because of its over-reaction. I know which I think.
    well it is . The fatality rate is no higher and flu is killing as many people as covid. And if we are going to personally insult then to me it is bonkers to destroy education, wreck the economy and peoples businesses and jobs , create untold loneliness and environmental mess from masks for the sake of not letting the NHS get a bit stretched .That to me is bonkers
    Citation needed lol.
    @facts_go_away is not going to stoop to evidence.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    GIN1138 said:

    "Nothing to see here!" cry the Bozo apologists in unison.

    I mean I've already said he's finished. The ITV expose saw to that. But I genuinely can't see what's supposed to be so outrageous about the Mirror pic?

    If anything it might back up the idea that he, personally, was sticking to lockdown rules?
    Boris Johnson repeatedly denies any parties took place in Downing Street and then if they did he had no knowledge of them then footage emerges of him being quiz master at one of these parties.
    Even the ‘wine and cheese’ excuse conjured up an image of something a little more, well, merry?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    GIN1138 said:

    "Nothing to see here!" cry the Bozo apologists in unison.

    I mean I've already said he's finished. The ITV expose saw to that. But I genuinely can't see what's supposed to be so outrageous about the Mirror pic?

    If anything it might back up the idea that he, personally, was sticking to lockdown rules?
    Boris Johnson repeatedly denies any parties took place in Downing Street and then if they did he had no knowledge of them then footage emerges of him being quiz master at one of these parties.
    But what about that photograph shows that he is being quiz master, or is at a party? I yield to no one in my contempt for the FLSOJ™, but this attack is dickless.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Lol! You couldn't make it up.

    "How dare you ask me to support my wild assertions with evidence!"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    If the photo is anything to go by I am glad I don't get invited to any #10 parties, they look a bit shit....looks like the only alcohol on offer is via a bottle of hand sanitiser.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    edited December 2021
    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    I’m not pretending to be an expert, but I can find a number of academic studies concluding that mask wearing reduces transmission in various real life situations but haven’t seen any concluding “no difference”. Can you link to any?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.
    A slightly different claim, but also one I am not convinced of.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
    It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Do stop being a c--t. The evidence is ample, in real world studies.
  • dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
    It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
    Right err ok -
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497

    Internal canvassing data shows the Liberal Democrats on 39 per cent in North Shropshire and the Tories on 40 per cent with four days to go

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e0d7456-5abf-11ec-a18c-c6d6c5855d8c?shareToken=c2ac28615b74c1038fbfbfdafef0606b

    Expectations management. Add 6% to the LDs and knock that off the Tories.
    If by that you mean maximise the vote regardless what everything is telling you management.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,277

    If the photo is anything to go by I am glad I don't get invited to any #10 parties, they look a bit shit....looks like the only alcohol on offer is via a bottle of hand sanitiser.

    LOL!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Like the rest of the country, I was sickened by the pictures of me hosting a Christmas quiz inside Downing Street last December.

    I had been assured that I did not host this quiz. But, in light of public concerns, I have asked the Cabinet Secretary to investigate whether I did

    https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1469791080937922562
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
    It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
    Right err ok -
    Do I have to spell it out to you? You claimed "there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting)". I'd like to see some references to scientific studies demonstrating this.
  • PBers will no doubt be shocked down to their socks to learn the following:

    That the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 was amended (or rather supplemented) the next year by an amendment to 25 Geo II c.31, an act concerning distemper in cattle, to specify the date of annual local elections in Chester, by moving them (the elections, not the cattle) forward by one week.

    I have no doubt JRM is poltting to repeal the 1750 Act that foisted European calendars on us.
    "Give us back our eleven days!" - slogan on Boris Johnson Battle Bus Mark II
    We'd need 13 days, now, to revert to the good old Julian calendar. Just goes to prove that if you let a problem fester it gets worse rather than better.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    HYUFD said:

    You could still work in the office with others even during lockdown if doing essential work

    How often does your essential office work include tinsel and a santa hat?
    Relatively common around offices up and down the land.
    From the beginning of December my staff would come in wearing tinsel and santa hats

    There is a lot to attack Boris on but this is beginning to look just silly
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    To be fair he did say “there is a lot of evidence [mask wearing] makes no difference” - asking about that evidence isn’t asking for proof of a negative.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    Rather better at asking questions than answering them.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021
    Its the cover up that does you.....if Boris had said we had a zoom quiz, I doubt there would have been anywhere near as much uproar.

    Everybody envisioned this....

    https://twitter.com/Queen_UK/status/1469025930718892033?s=20
  • dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
    Wait till you see all the press conferences they held with more than two people in a room.
  • Anyone else concerned that PM of the UK is using an insecure video conference software like Zoom?
  • But he was repeatedly assured there was no party..... as he told the House of Commons on Wednesday....
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
    It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
    Right err ok -
    Do I have to spell it out to you? You claimed "there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting)". I'd like to see some references to scientific studies demonstrating this.
    why not open your eyes and look at Scotland or Wales or Austria ? You seem a little pompous thats all
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    My work did a zoom quiz last Christmas. Everyone was on their own in their own homes.

    Number Ten holds a zoom quiz. Everyone is in Number Ten and gets to spend time drinking together.

    Bit of a difference I think.
  • RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
    Wait till you see all the press conferences they held with more than two people in a room.
    Regulations were NOT about working, but partying - right? And what's pictured is a party - right?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,277
    So is the Mirror pic from the infamous Allegra "cheese and wine" party?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    The only way for Boris to hang on and win again would be to start publicly saying he is ignoring sage and lockdown extremists and say all restrictions are being lifted - he has about until the end of Jan I think to do that

    What on earth makes you think that would improve his ratings? Quite the opposite, as all the relevant opinion polling confirms.

    I accept you have sincere views on the approach to covid but public opinion is not with you.
    just go into any Macdonalds or a pub and see how popular restrictions are in reality (not some opinion poll that can easiliy be manipulated or people feeling they have to say something virtuous
    Do you understand the term 'self-selection'?

    How do you explain this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/01/uk-hospitality-firms-hit-by-christmas-party-cancellations-over-omicron-fears

    or this:

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-super-spreader-office-christmas-parties-abandoned-qjwnzxc2n

    or this:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/11/25/office-christmas-parties-risk-pub-bookings-struggle/

    Colin Wilde, the managing director of Castle Rock brewery in Nottingham, said he had had “a handful” of cancellations of Christmas parties and wedding celebrations booked for December at the 20 pubs the company operates across the east Midlands.

    The media exists to sell panic is how I'd explain that. A handful across 20 sites? So next to no impact then?

    Shame that a tiny minority felt they had to act like that, but hopefully it stay just a handful though no doubt the media would love to blow it up to being even more.

    Also from your link: Hugh Osmond, the founder of Punch Taverns, said: “We are seeing that some of the people in large organisations who organise bigger events are taking the cautious view because I guess they feel some overriding responsibility. We are not seeing that in young people.”

    Nothing to explain. People don't want to change, because they know there's no reason to do so.
    It'll be interesting to see the Q3 hospitality figures when they emerge. Many people voting with their feet is my impression but that's just anecdotal.

    For clarity, Mrs P and I haven't cancelled our two December theatre trips but we're happy to abide by the mask wearing & proof of vaccination requirements. It's not ideal but seems sensible based on the scientific uncertainty.

    My original comment was to point out to to @state_go_away that the people currently in pub and MAcDonalds have self-selected to be there, so may well have low risk concerns themselves. That's their right but it doesn't make them very representative.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,188

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
    Not by many. And they work with him. Now if there was a photo of him boozing up with 70 odd people claimed...

    This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited December 2021

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    My work did a zoom quiz last Christmas. Everyone was on their own in their own homes.

    Number Ten holds a zoom quiz. Everyone is in Number Ten and gets to spend time drinking together.

    Bit of a difference I think.
    This! That's why Shagger is toast!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    I see that some people on PB still have not learned the basic rule of politics that "Perception is reality"

    It’s not exactly a photo of Johnson in a room with 30-40 people all quaffing champagne though, is it? Just assertions of groups of people.
    It is a different party, on the 15th not the 18th.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    I love "mask mandates" and "over the long term". You add those qualifications in because you haven't the balls to contradict the obvious truth, that masks work.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    i still have no idea what you mean by citation ? you act like we are in Crown Court
    It's a common tag in wikipedia when something is claimed without any source.
    Right err ok -
    Do I have to spell it out to you? You claimed "there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting)". I'd like to see some references to scientific studies demonstrating this.
    why not open your eyes and look at Scotland or Wales or Austria ? You seem a little pompous thats all
    That's not how you demonstrate if masks are or are not effective. You need to control for the myriad of other factors. I'm still waiting for this study showing they have no effect. I mean we've been using them for a couple of years now, you'd have thought there would at least be one or two studies on the matter.
  • MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,643
    A shit party, but still a party. What a toe rag
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    Anyone else concerned that PM of the UK is using an insecure video conference software like Zoom?

    Still.......after it was made clear really early on in the pandemic the background of Zoom.

    The Chinese just piss themselves at how poor many Western government approach to IT security is.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Do stop being a c--t. The evidence is ample, in real world studies.
    you are drunk and abusive - thats three times you have foul mouthed me - calm down and i suggest YOU leave (not me)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    Anyone else concerned that PM of the UK is using an insecure video conference software like Zoom?

    I remember when they had the Cabinet meeting on a public zoom meeting, with the meeting ID shown on the Twitter screenshot.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    Apparently this quiz-party was three days before the party which didn't happen. It begins to sound like they were having parties almost every night.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Do stop being a c--t. The evidence is ample, in real world studies.
    you are drunk and abusive - thats three times you have foul mouthed me - calm down and i suggest YOU leave (not me)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th4Czv1j3F8
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
    Wait till you see all the press conferences they held with more than two people in a room.
    Oh don't be pathetic Rob!

    By the way, it's great to see the Tories implode - couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
  • Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
    Not by many. And they work with him. Now if there was a photo of him boozing up with 70 odd people claimed...

    This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
    It may make people question how many office staff in the mirror, BBC, Sky, and other newspaper offices acted the same
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
    Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
  • Anyone else concerned that PM of the UK is using an insecure video conference software like Zoom?

    Still.......after it was made clear really early on in the pandemic the background of Zoom.

    The Chinese just piss themselves at how poor many Western government approach to IT security is.
    We're not allowed to even install/use zoom on any work device because of security concerns.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Any more polls expected tonight?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    It ain't the Zoom, it's the number of people with him in the Room that's the issue, right?

    Looks like more than two to me.
    Not by many. And they work with him. Now if there was a photo of him boozing up with 70 odd people claimed...

    This is not that. Won't make any odds to the court of public opinion, could even help him a smidgen.
    It may make people question how many office staff in the mirror, BBC, Sky, and other newspaper offices acted the same
    I think we all know the answer to that....same way as the pearl clutching over Gove on the Columbian marching powder (at parties they were also there).

    But if you set the rules.....and its the cover up that does you.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,497
    edited December 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY EXPRESS: It’s make or break week #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469797109520080902/photo/1

    Two serious proper questions. Firstly How do we think the media narrative will go this week? For things to have legs, new and newsworthy things need to emerge don’t they? The wallpaper one is over now with geet not resigning. Party gate running out of steam in coming days as a news item? Restrictions rebellion has been muted by salami votes. And covid is going to dominate news agenda, and possibly the Ukraine invasion. Obviously what happens Thursday may make a difference.
    Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents?
    And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
  • A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.

    Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.
  • Internal canvassing data shows the Liberal Democrats on 39 per cent in North Shropshire and the Tories on 40 per cent with four days to go

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e0d7456-5abf-11ec-a18c-c6d6c5855d8c?shareToken=c2ac28615b74c1038fbfbfdafef0606b

    If true thats a comfortable LibDem GAIN of a few thousand. That Tory vote is only going in one direction.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    From what can see, the ones on here who have condemned BJ for his previous video have said the Mirror story is sh1t while those who would criticise BJ whatever he did all tell us how awful it was.

    I think I know which side I will go with.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited December 2021
    anyway the WHO advised against mask wearing until politicians and authoritarians got in on the case

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,991
    edited December 2021

    A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.

    Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.

    We never got to the bottom of the Hancock leak either...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
    Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
    No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
    THESE pics don't show that. Perhaps more to come? Wouldn't bet against that possibility.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986
    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    Different party from the one on the 18th. But I agree with others, this one’s pretty weak and may even help him by confusing people into thinking this was the big no10 bash and was just a handful of people sitting in a zoom meeting.

    My theory about this last week is that it was really the Paterson affair and the arrogance of the attempt to change the rules that did the damage. It softened things up for the sucker punch this week. In all respects what the Tories did over Paterson was worse than the lying about the party.
  • geoffw said:

    Internal canvassing data shows the Liberal Democrats on 39 per cent in North Shropshire and the Tories on 40 per cent with four days to go

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e0d7456-5abf-11ec-a18c-c6d6c5855d8c?shareToken=c2ac28615b74c1038fbfbfdafef0606b

    Is it legal to post internal polling in the run up to an election?
    Yes. But lets say it isn't, have the LDs expelled from the election and that way the Barrister Doctor from miles away wins and Boris is saved!

    Huzzah!
  • dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    Rather better at asking questions than answering them.
    We know that from watching PMQs.

    As for the story... Had Johnson said "Charity zoom quiz" on day 1, that would have squashed the story.

    He didn't, because he's surprisingly foolish and surprisingly cowardly.

    So, I guess this won't persuade anyone either way. But a two part question to finish with:

    Does anything just published indicate that the PM has unambiguously lied?

    And for a bonus point:
    If he has, does it matter?
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Anyone else concerned that PM of the UK is using an insecure video conference software like Zoom?

    Ever thought they did it deliberately because they knew sharp eyed sleuths like you would pick up on it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 5 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    He hosted a Zoom Quiz.

    Apparently now a Zoom Quiz has been elevated to a major rave according to some people.
    Rather better at asking questions than answering them.
    We know that from watching PMQs.

    As for the story... Had Johnson said "Charity zoom quiz" on day 1, that would have squashed the story.

    He didn't, because he's surprisingly foolish and surprisingly cowardly.

    So, I guess this won't persuade anyone either way. But a two part question to finish with:

    Does anything just published indicate that the PM has unambiguously lied?

    And for a bonus point:
    If he has, does it matter?
    I don't think it would have squashed the story because this is an event from another day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.

    Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.

    If true that likely dooms them if it emerges who they are, the Tories rarely reward overt disloyalty to the leader of the day as Heseltine and Portillo and Gove found to their cost in their leadership bids
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
    THESE pics don't show that. Perhaps more to come? Wouldn't bet against that possibility.
    Maybe, maybe not. If this is the big Sunday splash then it's a huge letdown. Tbh, with the by-election next week if The Mirror had a picture of Boris with a glass of champagne in hand milling about in a dark room with 30 other people they'd have released it already.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
    If this his Cummo you’d expect him to know that each revelation needs to be more shocking than the previous.
  • RobD said:

    EXCLUSIVE: Boris Johnson accused of personally breaking Covid laws by hosting a Christmas quiz in No10 last year - and we've got pictures

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1469790405449424903?s=20

    Just shows even lawmakers dont rate covid enough to keep to the rules they make about it. Get rid of the rules , its an illness like flu
    Covid like flu? Either you are bonkers, or the whole world is bonkers because of its over-reaction. I know which I think.
    well it is . The fatality rate is no higher and flu is killing as many people as covid. And if we are going to personally insult then to me it is bonkers to destroy education, wreck the economy and peoples businesses and jobs , create untold loneliness and environmental mess from masks for the sake of not letting the NHS get a bit stretched .That to me is bonkers
    Citation needed lol.
    @facts_go_away is not going to stoop to evidence.
    You mean @brain_go_away.
  • Internal canvassing data shows the Liberal Democrats on 39 per cent in North Shropshire and the Tories on 40 per cent with four days to go

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8e0d7456-5abf-11ec-a18c-c6d6c5855d8c?shareToken=c2ac28615b74c1038fbfbfdafef0606b

    If true thats a comfortable LibDem GAIN of a few thousand. That Tory vote is only going in one direction.
    I have never doubted it, even landslide territory
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    anyway the WHO advised against mask wearing until politicians and authoritarians got in on the case

    We have learned a lot since then.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
    If this his Cummo you’d expect him to know that each revelation needs to be more shocking than the previous.
    This is more shocking than the Stratton video?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
    Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
    No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
    Well the WHO did not recommend mask wearing last year as they thought not effective . As it turns out they are right given masks dont stop people getting covid (we all will).What they stop is human interaction though and thats a shame and anyone who does not take that into account , well they need err citing
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
    Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
    No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
    You're wrong.

    Take vaccines for instance, they only get approved once there is a vast study with the onus on the vaccine to prove that it does work. Only once it is proven that the vaccine does work can it be distributed.

    So if someone is claiming vaccines don't work, they can be dismissed because the positive proof exists. But if vaccines were being rolled out without the positive proof, then they would be quite justified in saying that.

    The onus is always on those making the positive claim. The positive claim is proven for the vaccines.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.

    Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.

    Well. I'd figured that out some time ago.
    Do I get to be a politico?
    Of course there is evidence. An ill-disciplined captain doesn't run a tight ship.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.

    Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.

    Deffo. What is pathetic is the low to nil shock value of the dross the Mirror have doubtless paid £££ for, given what is obviously available when you look at the Hancock shagging pix.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY EXPRESS: It’s make or break week #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469797109520080902/photo/1

    Two serious proper questions. Firstly How do we think the media narrative will go this week? For things to have legs, new and newsworthy things need to emerge don’t they? The wallpaper one is over now with geet not resigning. Party gate running out of steam in coming days as a news item? Restrictions rebellion has been muted by salami votes. And covid is going to dominate news agenda, and possibly the Ukraine invasion. Obviously what happens Thursday may make a difference.
    Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents?
    And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
    The Afghanistan story is also a bit too old now to come back, having been drowned out by the party.

    Next week it’s N Shropshire. That’s either going to be the coup de grâce, or a reprieve that sees him safe for now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    anyway the WHO advised against mask wearing until politicians and authoritarians got in on the case

    Er, no...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-masks-idUSKBN29X2S5
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited December 2021
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
    If this his Cummo you’d expect him to know that each revelation needs to be more shocking than the previous.
    This is more shocking than the Stratton video?
    Sadly not.

    Technically it is, of course, since technically it is likely a breach of the rules. And it would be better if it could be tied to something he has previously denied. So we have photographic evidence of a breach of the law. Which will become important if (unlikely) the police decided to show some interest.

    But in human terms seeing the PM sitting on a zoom call actually undermines the images of bacchanalian excess most of us have in mind after the Stratton video.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY EXPRESS: It’s make or break week #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469797109520080902/photo/1

    Two serious proper questions. Firstly How do we think the media narrative will go this week? For things to have legs, new and newsworthy things need to emerge don’t they? The wallpaper one is over now with geet not resigning. Party gate running out of steam in coming days as a news item? Restrictions rebellion has been muted by salami votes. And covid is going to dominate news agenda, and possibly the Ukraine invasion. Obviously what happens Thursday may make a difference.
    Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents?
    And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
    The Afghanistan story is also a bit too old now to come back, having been drowned out by the party.

    Next week it’s N Shropshire. That’s either going to be the coup de grâce, or a reprieve that sees him safe for now.
    Regarding the Afghan story, is there still a select committee report to come?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
    Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
    No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
    Well the WHO did not recommend mask wearing last year as they thought not effective . As it turns out they are right given masks dont stop people getting covid (we all will).What they stop is human interaction though and thats a shame and anyone who does not take that into account , well they need err citing
    I think that was more to do with shortages of the things. There weren't seven billion masks available at the time.

    Anyway, back to your completely unsubstantiated claim that masks have zero effectiveness. Have a read of this:

    https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302
  • anyway the WHO advised against mask wearing until politicians and authoritarians got in on the case

    Er, no...

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-masks-idUSKBN29X2S5
    you have too worrying a faith in a whiter than white establishment . They did say initiially masks had no effect and were pressured to change their mind
  • BTW, is the woman with the lap top pictured with Johnson, is she Allegra Stratton?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    A former politico has informed me the thing that should really concern Boris Johnson.

    Someone or more is leaking a lot of information with evidence.

    We never got to the bottom of the Hancock leak either...
    Please never post again with Hancock bottom leak in the same sentence.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited December 2021

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: PM faces Cabinet revolt over Covid rules #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469786039258685442/photo/1

    Lining up to oppose a popular policy sounds like the perfect response to plummeting in the polls.
    Superficially popular. If it was legitimately popular people would have been voluntarily wearing masks etc without requiring a mandate to go in.

    Many things are superficially popular until they get announced at which point they become unpopular - the NI Tax Rise earlier this year was another example. It was superficially popular in polls when it was hypothetical, but once it became policy it was unpopular.
    yes funny how the tories dropped in the opinion polls just after they announced the mask mandate if mask wearing is so popular.
    Mask wearing isn’t popular. It’s just less popular than the consequences of not mandating it when it’s obviously needed. So the longer delayed, the worse the poll hit - because you lose the anti-science brigade (who you would always lose at that point) but you also lose the support of those frightened by the period of inaction and the prospect of longer, more severe measures than would otherwise have been needed.
    Given there is no proof masks work in the real world (beyond a lab or controlled setting) and a lot of evidence it makes no difference they are not the anti-science brigade by any means. Even if masks do somehow control the virus it is marginal and as everyone is going to get covid at some point it is nowhere near worth the cost in lost human social happiness
    Citation needed.
    What?
    Your rather absurd claim that there is no proof that masks work.
    There is no proof that mask mandates work over the long term.

    If you think there is proof, then you should be supplying it, not demanding that he supplies you with proof that proof does not exist. You can't prove a negative.
    OK, so outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and that's fine because you can't prove a negative? If masks had zero effectivity, we would surely have studies demonstrating that by now.
    Of course outrageous negatives can be stated all the time, and if they're wrong then that can be demonstrated by someone providing evidence for the positive.

    If mask mandates had efficacy, we should surely have studies demonstrating that by now. Where are they?

    The negative is the null hypothesis and there is no obligation on anyone to provide evidence for the negative. The negative gets ruled out by evidence to the contrary, no evidence to the contrary and the null hypothesis is always valid.
    I think that if someone is making the claim that masks are completely ineffective the onus should be on them to demonstrate that fact. Why can they make that claim without having to demonstrate it, but I do because I am arguing for the positive?
    Because the negative is the default. You can always challenge anything with a null hypothesis. The onus is on anyone making a positive claim, not a negative one.
    No, I disagree. If someone is making the claim that something doesn't work (whether it be masks, vaccines, or whatever) that doesn't give them the right to simply state that without providing any evidence of the claim.
    Well the WHO did not recommend mask wearing last year as they thought not effective . As it turns out they are right given masks dont stop people getting covid (we all will).What they stop is human interaction though and thats a shame and anyone who does not take that into account , well they need err citing
    Still wrong:

    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-masks-idUSKBN29X2S5

    PS That's a citation.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Zoom quiz photo is a letdown. Feels like when The Sun ran the handwritten letter from Brown to that dead soldier's family. The country too a different view than was intended, I think the mirror may end up helping Boris with that picture. It's the sad zoom quiz we all did for a few months.

    Tip of the iceberg . . . with the Bad Ship Boris still steaming majestically through the iceberg belt . . .
    Maybe, but the pictures aren't showing any of that. Suddenly these number 10 parties will all look like they were drab zoom meetings. The Mirror have relentlessly ramped this picture as well and it's a zoom quiz.
    If this his Cummo you’d expect him to know that each revelation needs to be more shocking than the previous.
    This is more shocking than the Stratton video?
    Sadly not.
    Misread your original comment, sorry. Maybe evidence that the big brain isn't behind it (or at least behind one of the two).
  • Michael Gove is leading the push for tougher Plan C Covid-19 restrictions, including 'pub passports', after pandemic modelling showed the Omicron variant could cause more hospitalisations than last winter.

    However, Boris Johnson and Downing Street are said to be resisting Mr Gove's calls for a new crackdown, as the Prime Minister faces a revolt from his own Conservative party in a vote over the introduction of Plan B rules.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10300139/Gove-leads-push-Plan-C-Covid-restrictions-dire-Omicron-modelling.html
  • TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    SUNDAY EXPRESS: It’s make or break week #TomorrowsPapersToday https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1469797109520080902/photo/1

    Two serious proper questions. Firstly How do we think the media narrative will go this week? For things to have legs, new and newsworthy things need to emerge don’t they? The wallpaper one is over now with geet not resigning. Party gate running out of steam in coming days as a news item? Restrictions rebellion has been muted by salami votes. And covid is going to dominate news agenda, and possibly the Ukraine invasion. Obviously what happens Thursday may make a difference.
    Secondly, the speaker has called time on parliament on Tuesday, almost like the bell ringing at a boxing match? Saving someone. Can any letters go in, be acted on, a vote take place when politics is in recess, acattered around the country wrapping presents?
    And without fuel in the media, where doth the polling?
    The Afghanistan story is also a bit too old now to come back, having been drowned out by the party.

    Next week it’s N Shropshire. That’s either going to be the coup de grâce, or a reprieve that sees him safe for now.
    Regarding the Afghan story, is there still a select committee report to come?
    Yes
  • I entered National Rail property at 07:12 this morning, left at 20:40 and had my FFP2 mask on pretty much all day. For all the anti-mask "its such an imposition" "its lockdown" twats out there, its not an imposition.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    TimS said:

    dixiedean said:

    Have been away for three hours.
    So. Boris was quiz master at a party which didn't happen, nor did he know about?
    Or has my COVID addled brain got the wrong end of this stick?
    Frankly the last 6 years I could have been in a coma and dreamed it all. But the hallucinations seem to be intensifying if anything.

    Different party from the one on the 18th. But I agree with others, this one’s pretty weak and may even help him by confusing people into thinking this was the big no10 bash and was just a handful of people sitting in a zoom meeting.

    My theory about this last week is that it was really the Paterson affair and the arrogance of the attempt to change the rules that did the damage. It softened things up for the sucker punch this week. In all respects what the Tories did over Paterson was worse than the lying about the party.
    Yes. Paterson was the turning point. Came out of a clear blue sky. If only the entitled git had paid back the money and done his time gracefully history would be different.
    But entitled gits gotta entitled git I guess.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    BTW, is the woman with the lap top pictured with Johnson, is she Allegra Stratton?

    Is that Sherpa Tensing?

    No, Ma'm, he's just flexing his muscles.
This discussion has been closed.