So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
And for context today's Scotland Covid number is: 5,018.
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Rats. Weasels is the menu under that bridge at Lechlade.
Besides that, weasels are far better raw, they go dry if cooked - unless pan fried. Stoat though, that’s a different kettle of fish, I’d definitely braise a stoat in Guinness. In fact Stoat in Stout is speciality at my dinner parties.
Have to say though Leon, beneath a dear bit of ramping, you are right news has so much less Boris bashing today I am pleased to say. Wallpaper gate hardly mentioned and only to say Geet has received assurances and is about to exonerate Boris again. Every where is Omicron Omicron Omicron it’s the biggest news story I agree
Pan fried weasels? My first thought is don't buy street food from C.M.O.T. Dibbler...
My second is check out the receipes from Peru for guinea pig....
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious service. Not sure your point makes sense.
I already said cases were irrelevant wherever you caught it.
Note you are not in hospital or dead
Well. Not yet. We'll see.
Of course, if you were, you wouldn't be posting here, would you? So HYUFD's logic fails.
Although. Looked at it another way he really does have a slamdunk unarguable case.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
It really isn't. It is about not making exemptions on the grounds of religion. Which hypocrisy really is the worst thing for religion anyway. One rule for us and our God.
Nope, it is a culture war on the religious. End of.
Carnyx's whole point was to shut down Christian church services at its most important festival of the year, even before a full lockdown
Where on earth did you learn your theology? It's the Crucifixion and the Resurrection that led to Redemption from Original Sin that is the crux (no pun intended).
And there would have been none of that if Christ had not been born in the first place!
But it was the teaching and dying that counted. A baby is merely potential.
In my youthful, committed Christian, days I was always taught that Easter was the most important Christian festival. Christmas was a good, it was, to some extent anyway, a hangover (!) from pagan days.
The Omicron variant has the potential to “very substantially overwhelm the NHS” and cause up to 10,000 hospitalisations a day if it is as virulent as Delta, according to a leading scientist who helped shape Britain’s coronavirus lockdown strategy.
Prof Neil Ferguson, a mathematical epidemiologist from Imperial College London, said the UK was already experiencing a “very explosive wave of infection” from the new variant. This could lead to “quite an explosive wave of hospitalisations,” depending on the severity of disease caused by Omicron.
But Ferguson said: “Even the best case scenarios involve several-fold more admissions per day than we’re getting at the moment – we are at about 700 right now.”
The stark figure of 10,000 hospitalisations a day is more than double the current highest level, with 4,582 admissions on 12 January this year.
“If it’s as virulent as Delta” is just a ridiculous misuse of the word if, when we already know prior immunity is reducing severity even among those only infected and not jabbed.
There has been a slew of lab evidence this week too showing neutralising antibody action remains especially in boosted populations, and that T-cell action is almost completely unaffected by the Omicron mutations.
This is primary school level extrapolation based on getting out a ruler and pencil and seeing where the line ends up.
The problem is onence we do lock down, and then the would does not end, they will say 'look lockdown worked' just as they did 20 months ago.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
And for context today's Scotland Covid number is: 5,018.
Yesterday it was: 3,196 A week ago it was: 2,432
You forgot the caveat:
*There has been a higher number of tests received in the last 24 hours as labs begin to address the turnaround time between specimens being taken and results being received and reported.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
And for context today's Scotland Covid number is: 5,018.
Yesterday it was: 3,196 A week ago it was: 2,432
Norway reports 5,269 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
You don't seem to comprehend that life doesn't go on for the thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of extra people who die for your freedom.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Absolutely and I really feel for him. It must be awful, unbelievably so.
The government imo has contributed greatly (I will stop short of saying intentionally) to the anxiety and mental health damage of millions of people for largely political reasons. ie they have thought about how it will all "play" rather than the totality of peoples' mental, physical health.
It can't go on. I don't want one person to die that shouldn't die but we simply cannot have the continued shadow of these restrictions or the threat of them.
Absolutely. We are are perennially either under restrictions or threatened by them. That's an impossible way to live. And my best wishes to @TheScreamingEagles 's son. The effect of this on the young is tragic, for a virus that barely affects them.
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Rats. Weasels is the menu under that bridge at Lechlade.
Besides that, weasels are far better raw, they go dry if cooked - unless pan fried. Stoat though, that’s a different kettle of fish, I’d definitely braise a stoat in Guinness. In fact Stoat in Stout is speciality at my dinner parties.
Have to say though Leon, beneath a dear bit of ramping, you are right news has so much less Boris bashing today I am pleased to say. Wallpaper gate hardly mentioned and only to say Geet has received assurances and is about to exonerate Boris again. Every where is Omicron Omicron Omicron it’s the biggest news story I agree
Pan fried weasels? My first thought is don't buy street food from C.M.O.T. Dibbler...
My second is check out the receipes from Peru for guinea pig....
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
There is a lot of arguing about how virulent Omicron will be, but it might be better to think of not how bad it will be but how mild it would have to be for us to avoid a lockdown. Given how transmissible Omicron seems to be I think the virulence would have to be as low as seasonal flu for us to avoid a lockdown, and even if it is milder than Delta there seems no prospect of it being so mild for us to avoid a lot of deaths and illness amongst the unvaccinated.
Politically, the Govt should put the pressure on the non-vaccinated. "It's their fault, the selfish wotsits". Imagine the likes of Alastair Campbell would have been straight on it.
In much the same way as manufacturers put the onus on people to recycle (rather than stop producing all the trash in the first place).
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
How about go fuck yourself.
There's a start without asterisks.
I think I have made my views quite clear and I am grateful that you should have responded to me after telling me you were going to ignore me. I can also live with you not responding to me.
Haven't you got some mice in Xinjiang to save?
Calm
Down
The image of Topping running around his bungalow in his grey Asda Y fronts telling everyone to "stop being fucking hysterical" as he then swears and spits at Nick Palmer, the councillor for Godalming, is one I shall treasure for the rest of time, or Covid, whichever ends sooner.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
How about go fuck yourself.
There's a start without asterisks.
I think I have made my views quite clear and I am grateful that you should have responded to me after telling me you were going to ignore me. I can also live with you not responding to me.
Haven't you got some mice in Xinjiang to save?
Calm
Down
I'm perfectly calm. Sanctimonious meta-commentators ("If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.") irritate the fuck out of me, however.
Glad to hear you are calm. As I said on another post NOBODY wants more lockdown and more Covid and more health / life / business disasters. And the numbers with Omicron might not make sense trying to impose them - will it stop what TSE's contacts said? And would this government be able to get people to listen even if it did.
We all need to take a breath and abandon our previous defensive positions. When the facts change, change your mind. What you or I want doesn't matter. What we're going to get will likely fuck everyone off. Best that we all stop tearing chunks off each other for something outside of anyone's control.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
So SA does not have a lockdown because hospitals are not overwhelmed at all yet we have a full lockdown in the UK?
More good news:
Dr Joe Phaala (SA Health Minister) says it now appears that, like previous variants, omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children.
“Early data from hospital surveillance, also reports from public and private hospitals, indicate that admissions are largely in children admitted for other reasons, and then tested positive and for very short durations.”
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Absolutely and I really feel for him. It must be awful, unbelievably so.
The government imo has contributed greatly (I will stop short of saying intentionally) to the anxiety and mental health damage of millions of people for largely political reasons. ie they have thought about how it will all "play" rather than the totality of peoples' mental, physical health.
It can't go on. I don't want one person to die that shouldn't die but we simply cannot have the continued shadow of these restrictions or the threat of them.
Absolutely. We are are perennially either under restrictions or threatened by them. That's an impossible way to live. And my best wishes to @TheScreamingEagles 's son. The effect of this on the young is tragic, for a virus that barely affects them.
Indeed; Granddaughter 3, although a teenager, is quite badly affected. Should have been out, gossiping and giggling, instead of having to rely on her computer.
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Rats. Weasels is the menu under that bridge at Lechlade.
Besides that, weasels are far better raw, they go dry if cooked - unless pan fried. Stoat though, that’s a different kettle of fish, I’d definitely braise a stoat in Guinness. In fact Stoat in Stout is speciality at my dinner parties.
Have to say though Leon, beneath a dear bit of ramping, you are right news has so much less Boris bashing today I am pleased to say. Wallpaper gate hardly mentioned and only to say Geet has received assurances and is about to exonerate Boris again. Every where is Omicron Omicron Omicron it’s the biggest news story I agree
Pan fried weasels? My first thought is don't buy street food from C.M.O.T. Dibbler...
My second is check out the receipes from Peru for guinea pig....
I've eaten stranger than weasel.
So've I. In the PRC as it happens. Though not a bat.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
How about go fuck yourself.
There's a start without asterisks.
I think I have made my views quite clear and I am grateful that you should have responded to me after telling me you were going to ignore me. I can also live with you not responding to me.
Haven't you got some mice in Xinjiang to save?
Calm
Down
The image of Topping running around his bungalow in his grey Asda Y fronts telling everyone to "stop being fucking hysterical" as he then swears and spits at Nick Palmer, the councillor for Godalming, is one I shall treasure for the rest of time, or Covid, whichever ends sooner.
Holding Mr Tedward. Don't forget that - holding Mr Tedward.
Boris Johnson’s ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, has demanded an explanation after the prime minister was accused of misleading him over the Downing Street flat scandal, with sources suggesting Geidt could resign if the answer does not satisfy him.
This feels exactly how it felt pre-lockdown last year. Very eery
So SA hospitals are like Northern Italian ones were in Feb/March 2020?
I think this is a key point. Given the position the UK is in compared to continental Europe and us running hot over the summer, I think we'd see many red warning lights on the dashboard from Europe before the return of lockdown style measures here. I'm not ruling them out, but they're unlikely to come out of nowhere.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious service. Not sure your point makes sense.
I already said cases were irrelevant wherever you caught it.
Note you are not in hospital or dead
Well. Not yet. We'll see.
Of course, if you were, you wouldn't be posting here, would you? So HYUFD's logic fails.
Although. Looked at it another way he really does have a slamdunk unarguable case.
I'm actually reminded (as I have sometimes been) of the HIV/AIDS epedemic - I was a student at the time and took a considerable interest in it. What I do recall is how many people wouldn't stop risky behaviours even when warned, with predictable results for their health and that of other people. They just could not cope with the idea: gays, i/v drug users, straights.
Though it is perhaps too much to expect heroin addicts to have any level of rationality. At least they could buy clean needles in a medical supplies shop in Edinburgh (on the Pubic Triangle if anyone wonders) - until a morally crusading chief constable leant on the shop to stop selling clean needles ...
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Rats. Weasels is the menu under that bridge at Lechlade.
Besides that, weasels are far better raw, they go dry if cooked - unless pan fried. Stoat though, that’s a different kettle of fish, I’d definitely braise a stoat in Guinness. In fact Stoat in Stout is speciality at my dinner parties.
Have to say though Leon, beneath a dear bit of ramping, you are right news has so much less Boris bashing today I am pleased to say. Wallpaper gate hardly mentioned and only to say Geet has received assurances and is about to exonerate Boris again. Every where is Omicron Omicron Omicron it’s the biggest news story I agree
Pan fried weasels? My first thought is don't buy street food from C.M.O.T. Dibbler...
My second is check out the receipes from Peru for guinea pig....
I've eaten stranger than weasel.
So've I. In the PRC as it happens. Though not a bat.
I'm not sure what I ate in PRC! Tried witchery grubs in Oz and grasshoppers in Thailand.
Boris Johnson’s ethics adviser, Lord Geidt, has demanded an explanation after the prime minister was accused of misleading him over the Downing Street flat scandal, with sources suggesting Geidt could resign if the answer does not satisfy him.
Downing Street has denied there are plans to introduce further Covid restrictions in England.
The prime minister's spokesman says: "There are no plans to go beyond where we are", but adds "we will act if necessary".
----
Don't believe anything until it is official denied.
You seem desperate for there to be another lockdown.
Not at all. I said below, I think it will be ineffective. And even WFH is messing with my new opportunity, and we will suppose to be hiring a lot in January.
I am just seeing it in the tea leaves. Sturgeon, Drakeford, Ferguson.....they are all coming out and saying this is very bad, we need to do more. It feels again just like every other lockdown, Sturgeon and Drakeford are in on the same calls, they nudge towards harder restrictions, Ferguson talks to the press / SAGE minutes are leaked, government say nothing to see at the moment, and then it comes.
Yes, Doctor Ferguson has opined again
"The Omicron variant has the potential to “very substantially overwhelm the NHS” and cause up to 10,000 hospitalisations a day if it is as virulent as Delta, according to a leading scientist who helped shape Britain’s coronavirus lockdown strategy.
"Prof Neil Ferguson, a mathematical epidemiologist from Imperial College London, said the UK was already experiencing a “very explosive wave of infection” from the new variant. This could lead to “quite an explosive wave of hospitalisations,” depending on the severity of disease caused by Omicron.
“Unfortunately, most of the projections we have right now are that the Omicron wave could very substantially overwhelm the NHS, getting up to peak levels of admissions of 10,000 people per day,” he told the Guardian."
It is the exact same mood music as before the previous lockdowns. The devolved governments move first, the scientists announce scary numbers, Number 10 reluctantly yields
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
How about go fuck yourself.
There's a start without asterisks.
I think I have made my views quite clear and I am grateful that you should have responded to me after telling me you were going to ignore me. I can also live with you not responding to me.
Haven't you got some mice in Xinjiang to save?
Calm
Down
I'm perfectly calm. Sanctimonious meta-commentators ("If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.") irritate the fuck out of me, however.
Glad to hear you are calm. As I said on another post NOBODY wants more lockdown and more Covid and more health / life / business disasters. And the numbers with Omicron might not make sense trying to impose them - will it stop what TSE's contacts said? And would this government be able to get people to listen even if it did.
We all need to take a breath and abandon our previous defensive positions. When the facts change, change your mind. What you or I want doesn't matter. What we're going to get will likely fuck everyone off. Best that we all stop tearing chunks off each other for something outside of anyone's control.
Look, we need a proper panic.
So, the first question is what kind of biscuits? Then the next question - who photocopies the agenda for the panic? Then who is in charge of folding all the chairs? And who puts the rubbish out and locks up the village hall?
You can't just have a panic of people running around screaming. That wouldn't be British.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
You don't seem to comprehend that life doesn't go on for the thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of extra people who die for your freedom.
Yes it does. It goes on through their children, or grandchildren, or relatives or family, or friends just after it would following their death through any other causes.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
Yes, I was in Asda this lunchtime and would estimate only around 40-50% mask-wearing (some social groups notably less so than others).
But the rules/requests as proposed are so nuts that the public won't take them seriously anyway: work at home / party with your mates down the pub. How is that in any way consistent. Sure we know why the govt wants it like that - so it doesn't have to bail out businesses again - but it's not saying that (and can't), so the face-value advice makes no sense.
If Labour had any nous, they'd pick up on all that and say they'll only back new restrictions if they're consistent and come with support for those who'll be hit by them. Force the government to choose between probable defeat or jumping to Labour's tune.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
But there's not much you can do if they shutter all non essential business. No pubs, caffs, restos. I guess you can have sneaky parties in your friends' houses, but you might be surprised how many of your friends will be scared and say No
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
No shit Sherlock, is it news to you that people die?
Everyone dies eventually. Get over it. Stop being terrified of death, there are fates worse than death.
It's entirely rational to be more scared of serious illness and death than of lockdown. This is why I'm on tenterhooks about the Omicron data. If it's bad what's going to happen is a lot of people suffering and dying from Covid and other things as the NHS collapses. That's the big rational fear imo. Makes no sense to me to get more anxious about lockdown than about that. So let's hope it doesn't come to pass.
Crumbs it is febrile on here today. Normally rational posters on all sides accusing others of things they never said. Hysterical calls to CALM DOWN! When @Leon is the one doing the "well on the one hand...but on the other" bit, we know summat is up. And. I think we all, deep down know what it is.
Boris is in the shit. Possibly terminally. What will he reach for? What he always does. Something to please the focus groups. This time his Party might not wear it. But he might have to risk it. My money is on Plan C. Announced after Hof C rises on Tuesday.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
You don't seem to comprehend that life doesn't go on for the thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of extra people who die for your freedom.
By that logic we should all stop driving because people die in road accidents.
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Rats. Weasels is the menu under that bridge at Lechlade.
Besides that, weasels are far better raw, they go dry if cooked - unless pan fried. Stoat though, that’s a different kettle of fish, I’d definitely braise a stoat in Guinness. In fact Stoat in Stout is speciality at my dinner parties.
Have to say though Leon, beneath a dear bit of ramping, you are right news has so much less Boris bashing today I am pleased to say. Wallpaper gate hardly mentioned and only to say Geet has received assurances and is about to exonerate Boris again. Every where is Omicron Omicron Omicron it’s the biggest news story I agree
Pan fried weasels? My first thought is don't buy street food from C.M.O.T. Dibbler...
My second is check out the receipes from Peru for guinea pig....
I've eaten stranger than weasel.
So've I. In the PRC as it happens. Though not a bat.
I'm not sure what I ate in PRC! Tried witchery grubs in Oz and grasshoppers in Thailand.
Guest at a CCP-run hotel. Tree frog and various "protected" fish from the Yangtze, as I recall. Eaten with a smirk. Other things too.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Absolutely and I really feel for him. It must be awful, unbelievably so.
The government imo has contributed greatly (I will stop short of saying intentionally) to the anxiety and mental health damage of millions of people for largely political reasons. ie they have thought about how it will all "play" rather than the totality of peoples' mental, physical health.
It can't go on. I don't want one person to die that shouldn't die but we simply cannot have the continued shadow of these restrictions or the threat of them.
Absolutely. We are are perennially either under restrictions or threatened by them. That's an impossible way to live. And my best wishes to @TheScreamingEagles 's son. The effect of this on the young is tragic, for a virus that barely affects them.
We're back to how a government keeps order and provides basic services. TSE's contacts said the government have seen figures where the NHS collapses. Lets play the scenario - Omipox is everywhere, surgeries and hospitals have people dying in the carpark. People would take matters into their own hands - you seriously saying you Philip, TOPPING et al will be carrying on as if life is normal?
This is why SAGE had a psychologist on it. They need to understand how people will behave. And I don't think for one second that anyone is imposing restrictions for shits and giggles, not on this scale.
You keep implying that I and others have a semi over all this, that we are practically cheering on the ending of normal life and the imposition of hell. We really truly are not - the difference is that we are prepared to suffer it if we have to, knowing that if we don't we will all end up doing so anyway.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
You don't seem to comprehend that life doesn't go on for the thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of extra people who die for your freedom.
Yes it does. It goes on through their children, or grandchildren, or relatives or family, or friends just after it would following their death through any other causes.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
Yes, I was in Asda this lunchtime and would estimate only around 40-50% mask-wearing (some social groups notably less so than others).
But the rules/requests as proposed are so nuts that the public won't take them seriously anyway: work at home / party with your mates down the pub. How is that in any way consistent. Sure we know why the govt wants it like that - so it doesn't have to bail out businesses again - but it's not saying that (and can't), so the face-value advice makes no sense.
If Labour had any nous, they'd pick up on all that and say they'll only back new restrictions if they're consistent and come with support for those who'll be hit by them. Force the government to choose between probable defeat or jumping to Labour's tune.
Am at Heathrow at the minute - and all I can say is that for mid December it is pretty deserted. Whatever the formal level of restrictions are, people’s behaviour is already changing fast.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Squash the sombrero for the vaxidiots and the vaxxed who still catch it.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
And for context today's Scotland Covid number is: 5,018.
Yesterday it was: 3,196 A week ago it was: 2,432
Norway reports 5,269 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase on record
We'll soon get a handle on how many of them get hospitalised.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious service. Not sure your point makes sense.
I already said cases were irrelevant wherever you caught it.
Note you are not in hospital or dead
Well. Not yet. We'll see.
Of course, if you were, you wouldn't be posting here, would you? So HYUFD's logic fails.
Although. Looked at it another way he really does have a slamdunk unarguable case.
I'm actually reminded (as I have sometimes been) of the HIV/AIDS epedemic - I was a student at the time and took a considerable interest in it. What I do recall is how many people wouldn't stop risky behaviours even when warned, with predictable results for their health and that of other people. They just could not cope with the idea: gays, i/v drug users, straights.
Though it is perhaps too much to expect heroin addicts to have any level of rationality. At least they could buy clean needles in a medical supplies shop in Edinburgh (on the Pubic Triangle if anyone wonders) - until a morally crusading chief constable leant on the shop to stop selling clean needles ...
Yep. It was the UK's previous pandemic. Not surprised there are parallels. See also the early blatant attempts to "other" COVID victims. Become less overt now.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Squash the sombrero for the vaxidiots and the vaxxed who still catch it.
I hate lockdowns too. But sure as the sun rises in the morning, there is a very hard one coming in January.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
So SA does not have a lockdown because hospitals are not overwhelmed at all yet we have a full lockdown in the UK?
More good news:
Dr Joe Phaala (SA Health Minister) says it now appears that, like previous variants, omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children.
“Early data from hospital surveillance, also reports from public and private hospitals, indicate that admissions are largely in children admitted for other reasons, and then tested positive and for very short durations.”
Are you posting the SA stuff because you think we're on opposite sides, that you can prove us wrong? Read your last post - Omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children. If that is how it plays here that is truly fantastic news.
Do you think we are on the opposite side of this debate to you? That we want death and chaos and destruction? Its the *opposite*. My 10 year old daughter had Covid last weekend. She burned (mid 38s), was delirious, scared, broken. It was grim to watch. So if the SA experience shows that other parents will not have to watch their own infected kids go from grim to dead, that is bloody brilliant.
As I have said a few times, we all need to drop this adversarial shit.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious service. Not sure your point makes sense.
I already said cases were irrelevant wherever you caught it.
Note you are not in hospital or dead
Well. Not yet. We'll see.
Of course, if you were, you wouldn't be posting here, would you? So HYUFD's logic fails.
Although. Looked at it another way he really does have a slamdunk unarguable case.
I'm actually reminded (as I have sometimes been) of the HIV/AIDS epedemic - I was a student at the time and took a considerable interest in it. What I do recall is how many people wouldn't stop risky behaviours even when warned, with predictable results for their health and that of other people. They just could not cope with the idea: gays, i/v drug users, straights.
Though it is perhaps too much to expect heroin addicts to have any level of rationality. At least they could buy clean needles in a medical supplies shop in Edinburgh (on the Pubic Triangle if anyone wonders) - until a morally crusading chief constable leant on the shop to stop selling clean needles ...
Yep. It was the UK's previous pandemic. Not surprised there are parallels. See also the early blatant attempts to "other" COVID victims. Become less overt now.
Which in turn led to a certain person shacking hands with recovering COVID victims. Copying a certain example.....
Yes, I was in Asda this lunchtime and would estimate only around 40-50% mask-wearing (some social groups notably less so than others).
But the rules/requests as proposed are so nuts that the public won't take them seriously anyway: work at home / party with your mates down the pub. How is that in any way consistent. Sure we know why the govt wants it like that - so it doesn't have to bail out businesses again - but it's not saying that (and can't), so the face-value advice makes no sense.
If Labour had any nous, they'd pick up on all that and say they'll only back new restrictions if they're consistent and come with support for those who'll be hit by them. Force the government to choose between probable defeat or jumping to Labour's tune.
I agree there's a profound inconsistency - if I were a cynic, I'd say the Conservative Party's friends in the hospitality industry lent on the Government to allow their businesses to operate under as few restrictions as possible.
That of course would be cynical.
The other side of it is enforcement - there is no practical enforcement on the Underground, buses or in shops. No business wants a video to go viral of their staff trying to throw someone out who isn't wearing a mask for example.
The sheer number of buses, trains and tubes operating in London at any given time compared with the number of TfL and British Transport Police means your chances of being caught without a mask are about the same as the Liberal Democrats winning a majority of 200 at the next election (a man can dream). People know that, they also know it's a warning first time so they'll put on the mask they keep in their bag or pocket.
It's typical lily-livered snowflake cancel culture woke Conservatism at work - the so-called party of law and order doesn't want to actually enforce any law and order but is happy to talk about it.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
How about go fuck yourself.
There's a start without asterisks.
I think I have made my views quite clear and I am grateful that you should have responded to me after telling me you were going to ignore me. I can also live with you not responding to me.
Haven't you got some mice in Xinjiang to save?
Calm
Down
I'm perfectly calm. Sanctimonious meta-commentators ("If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.") irritate the fuck out of me, however.
Glad to hear you are calm. As I said on another post NOBODY wants more lockdown and more Covid and more health / life / business disasters. And the numbers with Omicron might not make sense trying to impose them - will it stop what TSE's contacts said? And would this government be able to get people to listen even if it did.
We all need to take a breath and abandon our previous defensive positions. When the facts change, change your mind. What you or I want doesn't matter. What we're going to get will likely fuck everyone off. Best that we all stop tearing chunks off each other for something outside of anyone's control.
The previous positions we have is that everyone suffered severely throughout lockdown.
So now we have something new in front of us which none of us know much about. Hence my point to Leon to about his we are all doomed posts. They serve no purpose and all we can do is wait and see. Is all I've ever said.
Off-topic, keep an eye on US inflation, which has hit 6.8% now. This is going to make a meaningful impact on a lot of people, and the Republicans will play it up for all it's worth (despite having happily contributed to the flood of money sloshing around the economy).
The Fed's assessment is already looking very complacent and there has to be a good chance of interest rates increasing quite quickly. The mid-terms are looking a distinctly unhappy prospect for the Democrats.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Squash the sombrero for the vaxidiots and the vaxxed who still catch it.
I hate lockdowns too. But sure as the sun rises in the morning, there is a very hard one coming in January.
Feeling very low about all this.
Quite. I'm just checking if there is any shopping we need that I can get now, before the Christmas rush [sic].
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
Yes, I was in Asda this lunchtime and would estimate only around 40-50% mask-wearing (some social groups notably less so than others).
But the rules/requests as proposed are so nuts that the public won't take them seriously anyway: work at home / party with your mates down the pub. How is that in any way consistent. Sure we know why the govt wants it like that - so it doesn't have to bail out businesses again - but it's not saying that (and can't), so the face-value advice makes no sense.
If Labour had any nous, they'd pick up on all that and say they'll only back new restrictions if they're consistent and come with support for those who'll be hit by them. Force the government to choose between probable defeat or jumping to Labour's tune.
Am at Heathrow at the minute - and all I can say is that for mid December it is pretty deserted. Whatever the formal level of restrictions are, people’s behaviour is already changing fast.
Mine has changed, but only because I was thinking of a short-notice Twixtmas trip. However, having had Covid recently, they advise you not to test for 90 days because of the possibility of a false negative. So I am not risking having to quarantine somewhere for 2 weeks. It might have to be Cornwall instead.
Crumbs it is febrile on here today. Normally rational posters on all sides accusing others of things they never said. Hysterical calls to CALM DOWN! When @Leon is the one doing the "well on the one hand...but on the other" bit, we know summat is up. And. I think we all, deep down know what it is.
Boris is in the shit. Possibly terminally. What will he reach for? What he always does. Something to please the focus groups. This time his Party might not wear it. But he might have to risk it. My money is on Plan C. Announced after Hof C rises on Tuesday.
Nice of you to notice I am actually the voice of sweet soothing reason, however I think your point is nonsense
This Omicron panic is not being stirred to help Boris. Listen to the scientists. Listen to Sturgeon: why is she telling Scots not to have Christmas, and warning them clearly of further lockdowns, does she want to distract from partygate?
It is pure coincidence. A lot of very bad news has arrived, re Omicron. at the same time as Boris is mired in scandal. Does it help him? Maybe, maybe not. But this is not causal
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Squash the sombrero for the vaxidiots and the vaxxed who still catch it.
I hate lockdowns too. But sure as the sun rises in the morning, there is a very hard one coming in January.
Feeling very low about all this.
Why wait for January? With growing signs of hell glowing increasingly on the horizon, isn't the instinct to go out on the smash for new year? If they are going to broadcast Clamp's "Due to the end of civilisation" tape it will w/c 27th December.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Squash the sombrero for the vaxidiots and the vaxxed who still catch it.
You got there first. Omicron means there will most likely be another sombrero over the winter, which is disappointing. It won't just be the unvaxxed this time on current signals, unfortunately.
The prime minister's standards adviser has had further talks with Number 10 after an official investigation contradicted Boris Johnson's claim https://trib.al/UN8vdN9
It's impossible for Geidt to stay and NOT be a laughing stock from which reputation wd never recover. When he did report he said he relied on 🛒's word. Whatsapps prove lie. No non-comic wriggle room. He has to go. But 🛒 has no shame & will wave shiny stuff at lobby & plough on https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1469319763621040138
Now in the indoor waiting area. 46th on the waiting list.
Meanwhile at the walk in centre next door they’re waltzing in and out in no time.
They could at least serve up some hot towels with Cremant and bread rolls (if it’s Pfizer) / Krug grande Cuvee and caviar on blinis (if it’s Moderna).
Krug Grande Cuvee? Over priced swill. This isn't a bunch of Luvees at the Oscars.....
Billecart-Salmon Blanc de Blancs 1999. Or 2004 if you are not willing to risk the age...
In roughly 8 years time I hope the reference will be Little Bursted “GDD” late disgorged Blanc de Noirs, which - like Krug - will be heavily Meunier based.
Www.Littlebursted.com
My small 4 acre vineyard in the East Kent downs.
In the meantime my tip for this Christmas is Morrisons “extra special” own label English sparkling, which is from way back in 2010 and actually Nyetimber. Only £25
A fairly significant election result from yesterday. After a by-election win the Lib Dems now control Keynsham Town Council - where Jacob Rees-Mogg has his constituency office.
If things are as dire as TSE’s informants report, the government needs to fall now, this afternoon.
Where are the emergency field hospitals? Why are they not bombarding the public with blood sat monitors? Why are vaccine centres not running 24hrs a day with immediate notice, if necessary with every able bodied man and woman being brought in to wipe, jab and sticky plaster? Why are there not plane loads of nurses being brought in from the Philippines to man the fort?
The answer simply, is because that message is total bollocks.
I do hope so but who's Nick Tolhurst and is he in any way a reliable source for this?
No he isn't. He constantly claims inside knowledge, but normally it is just stuff he read elsewhere on the internet or wrong. I don't know why people retweet his stuff so much, AFAIK he is a nobody.
But Big Dom says there are pictures. Clearly Mirror has further info. 2+2....
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
But there's not much you can do if they shutter all non essential business. No pubs, caffs, restos. I guess you can have sneaky parties in your friends' houses, but you might be surprised how many of your friends will be scared and say No
It is human psychology. The contagion of fear
The thought of going back to all that sitting around using zoom to chat to mates instead of actually meeting them is making me feel sick to the stomach.
I don't know whether I can do another lockdown to be honest.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
Yes, I was in Asda this lunchtime and would estimate only around 40-50% mask-wearing (some social groups notably less so than others).
But the rules/requests as proposed are so nuts that the public won't take them seriously anyway: work at home / party with your mates down the pub. How is that in any way consistent. Sure we know why the govt wants it like that - so it doesn't have to bail out businesses again - but it's not saying that (and can't), so the face-value advice makes no sense.
If Labour had any nous, they'd pick up on all that and say they'll only back new restrictions if they're consistent and come with support for those who'll be hit by them. Force the government to choose between probable defeat or jumping to Labour's tune.
Am at Heathrow at the minute - and all I can say is that for mid December it is pretty deserted. Whatever the formal level of restrictions are, people’s behaviour is already changing fast.
Mine has changed, but only because I was thinking of a short-notice Twixtmas trip. However, having had Covid recently, they advise you not to test for 90 days because of the possibility of a false negative. So I am not risking having to quarantine somewhere for 2 weeks. It might have to be Cornwall instead.
Probably for the best given the battery of tests now required before during and after! I’m just surprised there aren’t more people travelling to get/go home at this point in the year - especially as there seem to be fewer flights per day as well.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Squash the sombrero for the vaxidiots and the vaxxed who still catch it.
I hate lockdowns too. But sure as the sun rises in the morning, there is a very hard one coming in January.
Feeling very low about all this.
Why wait for January? With growing signs of hell glowing increasingly on the horizon, isn't the instinct to go out on the smash for new year? If they are going to broadcast Clamp's "Due to the end of civilisation" tape it will w/c 27th December.
I projected 3 Jan on here the other day but yes it could be earlier.
They will probably try some sort of 'Plan C' first, maybe next week, as has been suggested elsewhere. Likely return to 'Rule of 6', some restrictions on visitors at home. also restrictions on care home visits.
Crumbs it is febrile on here today. Normally rational posters on all sides accusing others of things they never said. Hysterical calls to CALM DOWN! When @Leon is the one doing the "well on the one hand...but on the other" bit, we know summat is up. And. I think we all, deep down know what it is.
Boris is in the shit. Possibly terminally. What will he reach for? What he always does. Something to please the focus groups. This time his Party might not wear it. But he might have to risk it. My money is on Plan C. Announced after Hof C rises on Tuesday.
Nice of you to notice I am actually the voice of sweet soothing reason, however I think your point is nonsense
This Omicron panic is not being stirred to help Boris. Listen to the scientists. Listen to Sturgeon: why is she telling Scots not to have Christmas, and warning them clearly of further lockdowns, does she want to distract from partygate?
It is pure coincidence. A lot of very bad news has arrived, re Omicron. at the same time as Boris is mired in scandal. Does it help him? Maybe, maybe not. But this is not causal
Did I imply it was? I didn't mean to give that impression at all. I merely think, faced with the circumstances, and knowing what we know of the government, a Plan C will happen. Regardless of whether it makes any logical sense or not. Thus hysteria.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
But there's not much you can do if they shutter all non essential business. No pubs, caffs, restos. I guess you can have sneaky parties in your friends' houses, but you might be surprised how many of your friends will be scared and say No
It is human psychology. The contagion of fear
The thought of going back to all that sitting around using zoom to chat to mates instead of actually meeting them is making me feel sick to the stomach.
I don't know whether I can do another lockdown to be honest.
I'm with you 100%.
I reckon I could just about hack another long winter lockdown if I escaped somewhere sunny for at least a chunk of it.
I've been looking at Thailand. Partly reopen. But what are the risks? If you get a positive as you arrive you have to quarantine at your own expense for 14 days, I believe. Great
But that would still be preferable to me than sitting in Camden in the freeze with literally nowhere open, sending me mad, and after quaranting I could stroll about and eat pad thai
But what if - when - Omicron hits Thailand. Then everything will shut there, as well. I won't be able to go to restaurants, see friends, it will just be warmer. That's it
Crumbs it is febrile on here today. Normally rational posters on all sides accusing others of things they never said. Hysterical calls to CALM DOWN! When @Leon is the one doing the "well on the one hand...but on the other" bit, we know summat is up. And. I think we all, deep down know what it is.
Boris is in the shit. Possibly terminally. What will he reach for? What he always does. Something to please the focus groups. This time his Party might not wear it. But he might have to risk it. My money is on Plan C. Announced after Hof C rises on Tuesday.
Nice of you to notice I am actually the voice of sweet soothing reason, however I think your point is nonsense
This Omicron panic is not being stirred to help Boris. Listen to the scientists. Listen to Sturgeon: why is she telling Scots not to have Christmas, and warning them clearly of further lockdowns, does she want to distract from partygate?
It is pure coincidence. A lot of very bad news has arrived, re Omicron. at the same time as Boris is mired in scandal. Does it help him? Maybe, maybe not. But this is not causal
Doesn't mean Omicron The Tyrannosaur isn't being used to screen partygate. Trouble is it's all so chaotic anyway in No 10 that that is exactly what it looks like, despite what is happening in Edinburgh and Cardiff (and belfast?)
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
So SA does not have a lockdown because hospitals are not overwhelmed at all yet we have a full lockdown in the UK?
More good news:
Dr Joe Phaala (SA Health Minister) says it now appears that, like previous variants, omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children.
“Early data from hospital surveillance, also reports from public and private hospitals, indicate that admissions are largely in children admitted for other reasons, and then tested positive and for very short durations.”
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
I strongly sympathise with this position. But read @TSE's comment below. HMG is scared that the NHS will actually collapse, not just creak and strain. People will die in hospital carparks, morgues will need extra ovens, ambulances will shriek - in vain - through the night
What government will be able to resist total lockdown IF that happens? I can't see any PM having the brutal ruthlessness to say Fuck it, keep calm, go back to work. Can you?
Even tho that might well be the only long term option.
Also the government will have the new vaccines and therapies as a carrot to induce us to stay in our wardrobes. "Just three more months and we can let you out"
Some people aren't thinking straight imo. The same calculus as last time comes into play. If the NHS collapses, that's grisly health outcomes plus civil disorder, so either you do a managed lockdown or you have a chaotic one. Worst case isn't lockdown. Worst case is a lockdown that either doesn't work or doesn't hold or isn't even tried because it's futile.
Regarding the effects of repeated lockdowns on young children.
I know I am going to be accused of being callous here but I can't help thinking of my Mum, who was born in 1937 in Islington (when it was a slum).
By the time she was nine she had been evacuated (twice) to live with strangers, bombed out, been to six(!) different, or should I say indifferent, schools, lived on poverty rations, next to no posessions, hand-me-down clothes, etc. etc.
She and her cohort who had suffered similarly all survived and most became functioning adults, parents, grandparents etc.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
I strongly sympathise with this position. But read @TSE's comment below. HMG is scared that the NHS will actually collapse, not just creak and strain. People will die in hospital carparks, morgues will need extra ovens, ambulances will shriek - in vain - through the night
What government will be able to resist total lockdown IF that happens? I can't see any PM having the brutal ruthlessness to say Fuck it, keep calm, go back to work. Can you?
Even tho that might well be the only long term option.
Also the government will have the new vaccines and therapies as a carrot to induce us to stay in our wardrobes. "Just three more months and we can let you out"
Some people aren't thinking straight imo. The same calculus as last time comes into play. If the NHS collapses, that's grisly health outcomes plus civil disorder, so either you do a managed lockdown or you have a chaotic one. Worst case isn't lockdown. Worst case is a lockdown that either doesn't work or doesn't hold or isn't even tried because it's futile.
You're the one who has been constantly saying There won't be a lockdown. I'm the one saying Bollocks, look at the logic, there probably will
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
So SA does not have a lockdown because hospitals are not overwhelmed at all yet we have a full lockdown in the UK?
More good news:
Dr Joe Phaala (SA Health Minister) says it now appears that, like previous variants, omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children.
“Early data from hospital surveillance, also reports from public and private hospitals, indicate that admissions are largely in children admitted for other reasons, and then tested positive and for very short durations.”
Are you posting the SA stuff because you think we're on opposite sides, that you can prove us wrong? Read your last post - Omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children. If that is how it plays here that is truly fantastic news.
Do you think we are on the opposite side of this debate to you? That we want death and chaos and destruction? Its the *opposite*. My 10 year old daughter had Covid last weekend. She burned (mid 38s), was delirious, scared, broken. It was grim to watch. So if the SA experience shows that other parents will not have to watch their own infected kids go from grim to dead, that is bloody brilliant.
As I have said a few times, we all need to drop this adversarial shit.
Im sorry I just don't understand the panic thats happening, when the evidence from SA shows that there is no need.
If SA hospitals were full of people on oxygen then yes there would be a need to panic, but they are not.
SA is not in a panic and they are 3-4 weeks ahead of us and they have no plans for any restrictions.
Some remarkable figures there - 40% of 2019 Con voters say they are not fit for office...
Starmer still getting only lukewarm support, just looking good compared with Johnson's rating. But I agree with the comment on a previous thread that a lot of the poor "doing well" ratings will melt away if he's objectively doing much better in the polls.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
What is your 18-month plan?
I don't have one. But if you were to ask me, if we have to, we should buy time. The more time we have, the more people vaxed. The more people boostered. The more treatment drugs we will have. The greater capability we will have to beat this sod. But only if we have to. I am not wedded to the idea of restrictions and lockdowns; neither am I wedded to ignoring the deaths that may occur if we try to go on as normal.
Hopefully Omicron won't be as bad as feared; there's even a possibility it might be relatively 'good' (if its effects are nowhere near as bad as Delta). But we cannot rely on that.
So what's your 18-month plan?
I'll say one thing: I'm blooming glad I don't have to make these decisions.
My 18-month plan is to do sod all. The virus hits whoever it hits we treat anyone we have the capacity to treat, we bury or cremate anyone who dies and life goes on.
We don't need more time to get more people vaccinated, everyone's already been vaccinated who wants to be. The vulnerable should have all been offered their booster by now too. If some antivaxxers get it and die then that's on them. If some of the vulnerable get it despite three jabs and die, then that's just the natural end of their life.
No restrictions, just live as best as we can.
You don't seem to comprehend that life doesn't go on for the thousands/tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands of extra people who die for your freedom.
By that logic we should all stop driving because people die in road accidents.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If it really is 100 people in a room, 1 has Omicron, 50 get Omicron, I am not sure if that is your reasoning that the proposed plans will ensure this doesn't happen.
I think he might go for the full lockdown.
The only issue is furlough,
If that happens, I imagine Brady will give himself a hernia trying to pick up his postbag. And of course, what will the public reaction be?
Boris stuck between a rock and hard place.
Lets hope that Omicron actually it isn't all that bad and vaccines still do the business.
The public like WFH or being paid to stay at home, they'll love it.
I'm sure if you asked people with children whether they would like schools closed you would get a different view. There are six year olds who have spent a third of their life under some kind of restrictions and the threat of more to come.
You don't need to convince me, my youngest struggled with lockdown a lot last year.
August 2020 as we were preparing him for a return to school he was refusing to leave the house, not even go into the garden, because he was convinced he'd get Covid-19 and kill his grandparents.
A six/seven year old shouldn't have to deal with that.
Ditto my daughters. They hate lockdown; one of them is, I fear, permanently damaged by it. I HATE LOCKDOWN
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
And the tragedy is that, once you acknowledge that more restrictions are a'coming (because it's much easier to say "let the Covidiots die" in the abstract than to actually let them die) then the evidence is that it's better not to hang around, but buckle up and hunker down. If a nation waits, it ends up locking down harder for longer overall. And more people die.
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Buy time for what?
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
Well in theory March/April for omicron specific vaccines.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
.
Well said Nick.
For once I am actually on the Government's side, they were right to put restrictions in and they acted quickly. They have my credit for that.
They can put what restrictions they like out, I and many others are just going to stick two fingers up and ignore them. Tesco's today less than 40% mask wearing I would estimate. All those going restrictions are popular look at polls are ignoring that what people do and what they say are often different.
But there's not much you can do if they shutter all non essential business. No pubs, caffs, restos. I guess you can have sneaky parties in your friends' houses, but you might be surprised how many of your friends will be scared and say No
It is human psychology. The contagion of fear
It must be difficult living on your own because you have no sense of perspective. And I don't make light of that at all.
But in the social world I can tell you that very few people are scared in that way.
Why I am inviting 20 people to my bungalow this very Saturday for some medium sweet white wine, cheese cubes, and a vol au vent. None has cancelled despite my asking if they were happy to come.
Regarding the effects of repeated lockdowns on young children.
I know I am going to be accused of being callous here but I can't help thinking of my Mum, who was born in 1937 in Islington (when it was a slum).
By the time she was nine she had been evacuated (twice) to live with strangers, bombed out, been to six(!) different, or should I say indifferent, schools, lived on poverty rations, next to no posessions, hand-me-down clothes, etc. etc.
She and her cohort who had suffered similarly all survived and most became functioning adults, parents, grandparents etc.
Were kids tougher then?
American social psychologist Jonathan Haidt has long talked about this. How over-protection is having a negative effect on young people ability to deal with uncomfortable events.
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
"Again, calm yourself....hysterical ****s like you...". Make up your mind - do you want a calm discussion or a screaming match? I lean to being cautious, but I'm open to debating what measures actually help most with impact on society as little as possible. If I see a post with abuse and asterisks I just skip it, as I assume you just need to vent.
I've therefore not bothered to understand your argument. But currently I think we don't know enough about Omicron, so we also don't know what the best strategy to protect the NHS is. Give everyone boosters? Lock down through the winter? Relax as it's mild? We don't know.
It's therefore sensible to err on the safe side until we know more (wfh, masks, vaxports, no large events) without going totally overboard as we had to last year (no meals or family contact at all). If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.
How about go fuck yourself.
There's a start without asterisks.
I think I have made my views quite clear and I am grateful that you should have responded to me after telling me you were going to ignore me. I can also live with you not responding to me.
Haven't you got some mice in Xinjiang to save?
Calm
Down
I'm perfectly calm. Sanctimonious meta-commentators ("If you think this is wrong, and are willing to put your view calmly, I'll read it with interest. Otherwise, don't bother.") irritate the fuck out of me, however.
Glad to hear you are calm. As I said on another post NOBODY wants more lockdown and more Covid and more health / life / business disasters. And the numbers with Omicron might not make sense trying to impose them - will it stop what TSE's contacts said? And would this government be able to get people to listen even if it did.
We all need to take a breath and abandon our previous defensive positions. When the facts change, change your mind. What you or I want doesn't matter. What we're going to get will likely fuck everyone off. Best that we all stop tearing chunks off each other for something outside of anyone's control.
The previous positions we have is that everyone suffered severely throughout lockdown.
So now we have something new in front of us which none of us know much about. Hence my point to Leon to about his we are all doomed posts. They serve no purpose and all we can do is wait and see. Is all I've ever said.
Understood. And what we know is that the medical powers that be need until at least next week to model this one out. They said that at the start if this week, so we know that things being announced this week are a bit premature. However, whats also clear is that the work in progress data looks worse and worse as the days go on and the data builds and models.
If you aren't concerned by the doubling in a week (and accelerating) stat or the 50% of people in contact get infected model then will anything alarm you?
As I said in a post earlier even Philip will voluntarily lock himself and his family down if the TSE's mates scenario plays out.
Comments
No one on here apart from, maybe, a few selfish introverted freaks actually wants another lockdown. Lockdowns are HIDEOUS and inhuman
But the reality is dawning that one form of lockdown, or another, is probably coming. Denying this is futile
It's curtains.
Yesterday it was: 3,196
A week ago it was: 2,432
My second is check out the receipes from Peru for guinea pig....
*There has been a higher number of tests received in the last 24 hours as labs begin to address the turnaround time between specimens being taken and results being received and reported.
In much the same way as manufacturers put the onus on people to recycle (rather than stop producing all the trash in the first place).
Billecart-Salmon Blanc de Blancs 1999. Or 2004 if you are not willing to risk the age...
We all need to take a breath and abandon our previous defensive positions. When the facts change, change your mind. What you or I want doesn't matter. What we're going to get will likely fuck everyone off. Best that we all stop tearing chunks off each other for something outside of anyone's control.
More good news:
Dr Joe Phaala (SA Health Minister) says it now appears that, like previous variants, omicron is not causing severe respiratory symptoms in children.
“Early data from hospital surveillance, also reports from public and private hospitals, indicate that admissions are largely in children admitted for other reasons, and then tested positive and for very short durations.”
https://www.theice.com/products/910/UK-Natural-Gas-Futures/data
April’s energy price cap increase is gonna hurt…
Your improvement continues, I hope.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/dec/10/boris-johnson-ethics-adviser-could-quit-over-downing-street-flat-scandal-lord-geidt
Erhhh well, vroom vroom, have you ever been to Peppa Pig World....you really should go...
Hearing that a certain British “red top” newspaper now has photos taken at the parties that didn’t exist.
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1469270718437376000
Though it is perhaps too much to expect heroin addicts to have any level of rationality. At least they could buy clean needles in a medical supplies shop in Edinburgh (on the Pubic Triangle if anyone wonders) - until a morally crusading chief constable leant on the shop to stop selling clean needles ...
"The Omicron variant has the potential to “very substantially overwhelm the NHS” and cause up to 10,000 hospitalisations a day if it is as virulent as Delta, according to a leading scientist who helped shape Britain’s coronavirus lockdown strategy.
"Prof Neil Ferguson, a mathematical epidemiologist from Imperial College London, said the UK was already experiencing a “very explosive wave of infection” from the new variant. This could lead to “quite an explosive wave of hospitalisations,” depending on the severity of disease caused by Omicron.
“Unfortunately, most of the projections we have right now are that the Omicron wave could very substantially overwhelm the NHS, getting up to peak levels of admissions of 10,000 people per day,” he told the Guardian."
It is the exact same mood music as before the previous lockdowns. The devolved governments move first, the scientists announce scary numbers, Number 10 reluctantly yields
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/omicron-could-overwhelm-nhs-if-virulent-as-delta-neil-ferguson-says
So, the first question is what kind of biscuits? Then the next question - who photocopies the agenda for the panic? Then who is in charge of folding all the chairs? And who puts the rubbish out and locks up the village hall?
You can't just have a panic of people running around screaming. That wouldn't be British.
But the rules/requests as proposed are so nuts that the public won't take them seriously anyway: work at home / party with your mates down the pub. How is that in any way consistent. Sure we know why the govt wants it like that - so it doesn't have to bail out businesses again - but it's not saying that (and can't), so the face-value advice makes no sense.
If Labour had any nous, they'd pick up on all that and say they'll only back new restrictions if they're consistent and come with support for those who'll be hit by them. Force the government to choose between probable defeat or jumping to Labour's tune.
It is human psychology. The contagion of fear
It's a painful, expensive, miserable way to buy time. But right now, that might be what we need.
Normally rational posters on all sides accusing others of things they never said.
Hysterical calls to CALM DOWN!
When @Leon is the one doing the "well on the one hand...but on the other" bit, we know summat is up.
And. I think we all, deep down know what it is.
Boris is in the shit. Possibly terminally. What will he reach for? What he always does. Something to please the focus groups. This time his Party might not wear it. But he might have to risk it.
My money is on Plan C.
Announced after Hof C rises on Tuesday.
We've done vaccines. What are we buying time for?
This is why SAGE had a psychologist on it. They need to understand how people will behave. And I don't think for one second that anyone is imposing restrictions for shits and giggles, not on this scale.
You keep implying that I and others have a semi over all this, that we are practically cheering on the ending of normal life and the imposition of hell. We really truly are not - the difference is that we are prepared to suffer it if we have to, knowing that if we don't we will all end up doing so anyway.
Feeling very low about all this.
Do you think we are on the opposite side of this debate to you? That we want death and chaos and destruction? Its the *opposite*. My 10 year old daughter had Covid last weekend. She burned (mid 38s), was delirious, scared, broken. It was grim to watch. So if the SA experience shows that other parents will not have to watch their own infected kids go from grim to dead, that is bloody brilliant.
As I have said a few times, we all need to drop this adversarial shit.
I agree there's a profound inconsistency - if I were a cynic, I'd say the Conservative Party's friends in the hospitality industry lent on the Government to allow their businesses to operate under as few restrictions as possible.
That of course would be cynical.
The other side of it is enforcement - there is no practical enforcement on the Underground, buses or in shops. No business wants a video to go viral of their staff trying to throw someone out who isn't wearing a mask for example.
The sheer number of buses, trains and tubes operating in London at any given time compared with the number of TfL and British Transport Police means your chances of being caught without a mask are about the same as the Liberal Democrats winning a majority of 200 at the next election (a man can dream). People know that, they also know it's a warning first time so they'll put on the mask they keep in their bag or pocket.
It's typical lily-livered snowflake cancel culture woke Conservatism at work - the so-called party of law and order doesn't want to actually enforce any law and order but is happy to talk about it.
So now we have something new in front of us which none of us know much about. Hence my point to Leon to about his we are all doomed posts. They serve no purpose and all we can do is wait and see. Is all I've ever said.
The Fed's assessment is already looking very complacent and there has to be a good chance of interest rates increasing quite quickly. The mid-terms are looking a distinctly unhappy prospect for the Democrats.
This Omicron panic is not being stirred to help Boris. Listen to the scientists. Listen to Sturgeon: why is she telling Scots not to have Christmas, and warning them clearly of further lockdowns, does she want to distract from partygate?
It is pure coincidence. A lot of very bad news has arrived, re Omicron. at the same time as Boris is mired in scandal. Does it help him? Maybe, maybe not. But this is not causal
Green 731 59.3% +36.0%
Con 454 36.8% -7.3%
Lab 48 3.9% -5.0%
LD n/a -23.6% (stood down)
Green gain from Con
It's impossible for Geidt to stay and NOT be a laughing stock from which reputation wd never recover. When he did report he said he relied on 🛒's word. Whatsapps prove lie. No non-comic wriggle room. He has to go. But 🛒 has no shame & will wave shiny stuff at lobby & plough on
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1469319763621040138
Now 8 points
https://twitter.com/_chrisrobertson/status/1469224118465802245
Www.Littlebursted.com
My small 4 acre vineyard in the East Kent downs.
In the meantime my tip for this Christmas is Morrisons “extra special” own label English sparkling, which is from way back in 2010 and actually Nyetimber. Only £25
Now jabbed: I got the Club-Europe Pfizer.
Where are the emergency field hospitals? Why are they not bombarding the public with blood sat monitors? Why are vaccine centres not running 24hrs a day with immediate notice, if necessary with every able bodied man and woman being brought in to wipe, jab and sticky plaster? Why are there not plane loads of nurses being brought in from the Philippines to man the fort?
The answer simply, is because that message is total bollocks.
But Big Dom says there are pictures. Clearly Mirror has further info. 2+2....
I don't know whether I can do another lockdown to be honest.
And if he gets up to 43% he's going to be matching 1997.
@kallmemeg
·
1h
New: Omicron evidence paper from Scotland 🏴
Estimates a 2.3 day doubling time and Omicron comprising 90% of cases in approximately 7 days time
They will probably try some sort of 'Plan C' first, maybe next week, as has been suggested elsewhere. Likely return to 'Rule of 6', some restrictions on visitors at home. also restrictions on care home visits.
Disapprove: 62%
Approve: 22%
I merely think, faced with the circumstances, and knowing what we know of the government, a Plan C will happen.
Regardless of whether it makes any logical sense or not.
Thus hysteria.
I reckon I could just about hack another long winter lockdown if I escaped somewhere sunny for at least a chunk of it.
I've been looking at Thailand. Partly reopen. But what are the risks? If you get a positive as you arrive you have to quarantine at your own expense for 14 days, I believe. Great
But that would still be preferable to me than sitting in Camden in the freeze with literally nowhere open, sending me mad, and after quaranting I could stroll about and eat pad thai
But what if - when - Omicron hits Thailand. Then everything will shut there, as well. I won't be able to go to restaurants, see friends, it will just be warmer. That's it
I feel like a rat, cornered. Ugh
I know I am going to be accused of being callous here but I can't help thinking of my Mum, who was born in 1937 in Islington (when it was a slum).
By the time she was nine she had been evacuated (twice) to live with strangers, bombed out, been to six(!) different, or should I say indifferent, schools, lived on poverty rations, next to no posessions, hand-me-down clothes, etc. etc.
She and her cohort who had suffered similarly all survived and most became functioning adults, parents, grandparents etc.
Were kids tougher then?
LAB: 41%
CON: 33%
LDM: 7%
GRN: 6%
SNP: 5%
Via @focaldataHQ, 9-10 Dec.
If SA hospitals were full of people on oxygen then yes there would be a need to panic, but they are not.
SA is not in a panic and they are 3-4 weeks ahead of us and they have no plans for any restrictions.
Starmer still getting only lukewarm support, just looking good compared with Johnson's rating. But I agree with the comment on a previous thread that a lot of the poor "doing well" ratings will melt away if he's objectively doing much better in the polls.
But in the social world I can tell you that very few people are scared in that way.
Why I am inviting 20 people to my bungalow this very Saturday for some medium sweet white wine, cheese cubes, and a vol au vent. None has cancelled despite my asking if they were happy to come.
If you aren't concerned by the doubling in a week (and accelerating) stat or the 50% of people in contact get infected model then will anything alarm you?
As I said in a post earlier even Philip will voluntarily lock himself and his family down if the TSE's mates scenario plays out.