Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I'm meant to be singing in a carol concert at our local church in a week's time, raising money to help fund a refugee family to make their home in our neighbourhood. I wonder where this concert sits in the culture war, and more importantly whether it's actually going to happen. The mulled wine and mince pies for afterwards have already fallen victim to cancel culture.
Definitely the Wrong Sort of carol.
I do hope they have a whipround if it is cancelled.
I wonder what would constitute the right kind of Carol in HYUFD land.
Don't Come, All Ye Foreigners O Little Town of Basildon Deck the Halls (for a business meeting)
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
They do the “Leon is hysterical” stuff because they are scared - seriously - and don’t want to confront the likely truth.
Me, I’m a flinty eyed alpha male and I look Death in the eye and I shrug and say Me ne frego
Apart from the times when I am bored or drunk and I lurch into absurd hyperbole for my own amusement, of course
Nah. We do the ‘Leon is hysterical’ stuff because you are regularly hysterical, whether it be about millions of impending British deaths, the imminent alien invasion, or whatever other cranky rubbish you’ve just dug up and reposted without having applied an ounce of thought to it.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
I don't think anyone actually knows what will happen, yet. I think we will have a good idea in the next couple of weeks though.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
Cases in England per 100,000: 501 Cases in wales per 100,000: 520
All those extra restrictions and wiles still has more cases.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Why hasn't SA locked down ?
Dunno. Perhaps they are in the same place as us where it won't stop it and is impossible to implement anyway.
Seriously, think about how people would react if that lying wazzock rocks up to the rostrum and says "sorry everyone, lock yourselves down again". The hacks will berate him with questions about the parties that everyone barring HYUFD *knows* happened. And normals will say "why should I"?
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
Me? Leftwing statist? I'm a centrist dad who doesn't want to kill people.
On the data we have seen, imagine 100 people in that church - 50 will be infected, quite a few are old so 1 or 2 will die quite possibly.
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Screw that.
Boris has no moral authority to put us into any restrictions. If there are to be restrictions due to Omicron then it'll have to be a different Prime Minister who does that. The PM who flouted his own regulations last year simply will be told to f**k off this year if he tries to do that again, and quite right too.
No to any more restrictions. Boris's only hope of survival now is to hope that he can get us through the winter without anything, because if he can't, he has to go.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
Cases in England per 100,000: 501 Cases in wales per 100,000: 520
All those extra restrictions and wiles still has more cases.
They’ve gone quiet since Drakeford oversaw the best Labour performance in years
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Where ought I, as a religiously observant left winger (in attendance 3 or.4 times a week on a 40 mile round trip on public transport), stand on this issue? Frankly. If your Faith needs exceptions made purely for its own convenience, then it isn't much of a Faith. And certainly is no example to the secular.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
I don't think anyone actually knows what will happen, yet. I think we will have a good idea in the next couple of weeks though.
Exactly, and simply denying the possible need for controls is not good enough, thouigh I do hope they won't be needed.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
In addition: ?most? of the people who are two-dosed have not had their boosters yet. In our case, it's next Thursday - and it'll take some time for the booster to take full effect. I doubt we'll have full protection by the time we sit down for Christmas dinner.
Alpha/Kent came in at just the wrong time last year: another couple of months, and we'd have had a lot more people protected with the vaccines, *and* the Christmas push over. Omicron seems to have come in at just the wrong time as well - although as with all these things, there's probably no 'right' time; only less wrong times.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious gathering. Not sure your point makes sense. You are saying one risky activity takes precedence over another. Because Christmas.
You mean you weren’t protected by some kind of divine shield?
There has been no witness evidence Boris attended any of these parties
This is not true. Several newspapers have quoted sources who were at the party on the 27th November, who saw Boris, and were able to provide direct quotes from his speech.
London was not in lockdown and not in Tier 3 and not in Tier 4 on November 27th
31st October 2020
From Thursday 5 November, everyone must stay at home, and may leave only for a limited set of reasons. These include:
For education;
For work, if you cannot work from home;
For exercise and recreation outdoors, with your household, support bubble or on your own with one person from another household;
For all medical reasons, appointments and to escape injury or harm;
To shop for food and essentials;
And to provide care for vulnerable people, or as a volunteer.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious service. Not sure your point makes sense.
I already said cases were irrelevant wherever you caught it.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Where ought I, as a religiously observant left winger (in attendance 3 or.4 times a week on a 40 mile round trip on public transport), stand on this issue? Frankly. If your Faith needs exceptions made purely for its own convenience, then it isn't much of a Faith. And certainly is no example to the secular.
This is not exception for faith, this is Carnyx declaring a cultural war on faith by banning religious services first in the most important Christian festival of the year even before a full lockdown
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
Drakeford is s**t, even worse than Boris. Like Nicola or Saint Jacinda.
TSE has had a weird man-crush on "the Drake" for months now, I'm not sure if he's being serious or its a very deep trolling effort.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
Me? Leftwing statist? I'm a centrist dad who doesn't want to kill people.
On the data we have seen, imagine 100 people in that church - 50 will be infected, quite a few are old so 1 or 2 will die quite possibly.
Would you feel happy about that?
No. You are a leftwing, statist Scottish Nationalist.
If I am religious I believe in eternal life and also full religious ceremony for the faithful including the sacraments at the most important Christian festival of the year.
Denial of that when most of them will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters and at barely any risk of hospitalisation is a declaration of cultural war on Christians
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I burst into song as tribute -
He who would valiant be, 'gainst all the wokies Let him in constancy, vote for the Tories There's no discouragement, shall make him see they're bent His first avowed intent, to keep the Blues in
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
It really isn't. It is about not making exemptions on the grounds of religion. Which hypocrisy really is the worst thing for religion anyway. One rule for us and our God.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
What proportion of the population do you think can have Covid at once? We are at 1 in 60 right now in England and up at 1 in 50 in Wales.
Sure, cases can clearly rise further, but we aren't a million miles away from a natural limit (e.g. we peaked at 1 in 10 amongst school children).
Exponential growth can only go on for so long with a finite population.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
They do the “Leon is hysterical” stuff because they are scared - seriously - and don’t want to confront the likely truth.
Me, I’m a flinty eyed alpha male and I look Death in the eye and I shrug and say Me ne frego
Apart from the times when I am bored or drunk and I lurch into absurd hyperbole for my own amusement, of course
If you’d all listened to me and restricted when I said, we’d have done a lot better. Once again people are in denial about this virus.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
I'm reminded of the mems of Vince Cable making predictions of recessions all the time. Sooner or later he had to be right. I would suggest it is much easier with Covid to make predictions of when things are not going to be bad rather than predictions that they will be!
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
They do the “Leon is hysterical” stuff because they are scared - seriously - and don’t want to confront the likely truth.
Me, I’m a flinty eyed alpha male and I look Death in the eye and I shrug and say Me ne frego
Apart from the times when I am bored or drunk and I lurch into absurd hyperbole for my own amusement, of course
Nah. We do the ‘Leon is hysterical’ stuff because you are regularly hysterical, whether it be about millions of impending British deaths, the imminent alien invasion, or whatever other cranky rubbish you’ve just dug up and reposted without having applied an ounce of thought to it.
Yes, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
I absolutely agree that we do not have full data and confirmed facts yet. Which is why the powers that be said they needed until next week to get their facts together. The issue being that the more that the data comes together the worse the work in progress looks.
As for Leon's supposed "hysteria" it isn't he who has made me sit up and notice. It is the National Clinical Director here in Scotland. Who knows more about it than you or me.
Which is why Sturgeon is saying 'If we think something really needs to stop we will tell you that. Until then do what you're doing but do it safely"
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
Confirmed list of Tory rebels who will vote against the Plan B measures next week, thus requiring Boris to have Labour votes to get them through.
• Steve Baker • Ben Bradley • Brendan Clarke-Smith • Graham Brady • Philip Davies • Richard Drax • Simon Jupp • Stephen McPartland • John Redwood • Greg Smith • Dehenna Davison • Marcus Fysh • Gary Sambrook • Pauline Latham • William Wragg • Geoffrey Clifton-Brown • Iain Duncan Smith • Christopher Chope • Craig Tracey • Robert Syms • Anthony Mangnall • Greg Clark • Esther McVey • Liam Fox • David Davis • Mark Jenkinson • Mark Harper • Darren Henry • Steve Brine • Craig Mackinlay • Simon Fell • Andrew Bowie • David Warburton • Siobhan Baillie • David Jones • Tom Randall • Ben Spencer • Andrew Rosindell • Charles Walker • Douglas Ross • Karl McCartney • Anne Marie Morris • Johnny Mercer • Tom Tugendhat • Richard Fuller • Giles Watling • Desmond Swayne • Andrew Bridgen • Andrew Lewer https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1469257084285997057?s=20
These brave crusaders for individual liberties will be cheering the Patel Bill though won't they?
David Davis won't be.
Fair point. I did think of that, but it was past the edit. Insert "the overwhelming majority of" before "these"
If you’d all listened to me and restricted when I said, we’d have done a lot better. Once again people are in denial about this virus.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
Codswallop. You're in denial about the reality of restrictions.
You've been calling for restrictions forever. Under no circumstances can we accept any more restrictions. If Omicron spreads then anyone afraid of it should hide themselves, not others.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
There is only 0.3% difference, that is not "a lot" by any normal standard. Scotland does seem to going a little bit faster, and Northern Ireland is as usual at the rear, but these differneces are probably mainly due to demographics than any other factor.
I remember when the vaccine was going to get us back to normality by summer. I told you all then that was absurd.
If we go to lockdowns every time we have a new variant it will destroy the economy in due course and lead to mass unemployment in the private sector outside the likes of delivery firms like Amazon.
Double vaccination and boosters reduce the risk of hospitalisation to near zero, there must be no more lockdowns
I remember when the vaccine was going to get us back to normality by summer. I told you all then that was absurd.
Yes and you were absurd. We were back at normality and we should have remained there, Boris was weak in going for Plan B. Weak, weak, weak and he needs to go.
If you’d all listened to me and restricted when I said, we’d have done a lot better. Once again people are in denial about this virus.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
I'm reminded of the mems of Vince Cable making predictions of recessions all the time. Sooner or later he had to be right. I would suggest it is much easier with Covid to make predictions of when things are not going to be bad rather than predictions that they will be!
I’ve not said at every turn we are fucked. I’ve looked at the data and at every turn when it showed things going wrong, I spoke up. Every time I was shouted down.
Last November, Christmas I was shouted down. Two weeks ago I was shouted down.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
It really isn't. It is about not making exemptions on the grounds of religion. Which hypocrisy really is the worst thing for religion anyway. One rule for us and our God.
Nope, it is a culture war on the religious. End of.
Carnyx's whole point was to shut down Christian church services at its most important festival of the year, even before a full lockdown
Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.
OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
Screw that.
Boris has no moral authority to put us into any restrictions. If there are to be restrictions due to Omicron then it'll have to be a different Prime Minister who does that. The PM who flouted his own regulations last year simply will be told to f**k off this year if he tries to do that again, and quite right too.
No to any more restrictions. Boris's only hope of survival now is to hope that he can get us through the winter without anything, because if he can't, he has to go.
He has to go then. It's quite probable that the government will need to take further action within the next few weeks, possibly even ordering another lockdown. Boris has no moral authority anymore, so if he has any sense left he will resign because otherwise he is risking the failure of further measures being blamed on him.
Boris could do one last decent thing and admit that he has made a mess of things and needs to hand over power to someone with cleaner hands. He'd get some small amount of credit for that. Sadly I expect that his ego is too big to admit his faults, and instead more people will die because Boris remains PM.
Queuing for my booster at Guy’s hospital. It’s encouraging that the queue is quite lengthy and lots of the people in it are youngish. A bit chilly though.
After my 2 premium-economy AZs will it be business class Pfizer or plutocratic Moderna?
If you’d all listened to me and restricted when I said, we’d have done a lot better. Once again people are in denial about this virus.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
I'm reminded of the mems of Vince Cable making predictions of recessions all the time. Sooner or later he had to be right. I would suggest it is much easier with Covid to make predictions of when things are not going to be bad rather than predictions that they will be!
I’ve not said at every turn we are fucked. I’ve looked at the data and at every turn when it showed things going wrong, I spoke up. Every time I was shouted down.
Last November, Christmas I was shouted down. Two weeks ago I was shouted down.
Three weeks ago. Four weeks ago. Five weeks ago. Six weeks ago.
You are like Ambrose Evans Pritchard in your relentless negativity. You've called for 57 of the last 2 lockdowns.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
Most of the most vulnerable over 50s have had their boosters.
Plus symptoms only 'mild to moderate' amongst young people proves the point
It was less than a year ago that 15m jabs would cover off well over 90% of all hospitalisation risk.
Well we've boostered 22m people now, so this all feels like a cooked up nonsense from the convenient agreement of the health lobby who have no idea what life is like outside a school or a hospital, and a prime minister desperate for a distraction.
I remember when the vaccine was going to get us back to normality by summer. I told you all then that was absurd.
Yes and you were absurd. We were back at normality and we should have remained there, Boris was weak in going for Plan B. Weak, weak, weak and he needs to go.
No more restrictions, not now, not ever.
Plan B at least with vaxports for large events encourages more people to get jabbed.
@Carnyx you're exactly where I am on COVID and restrictions and just as last time we’re being shouted at by the usual suspects. I remember when you and I were some of the few to call for a lockdown last year.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I did one of those for the 1st time last week. Very easy! I'd be happy enough to add it to my morning routine.
If everyone did that there would be 69 million plastic trays, testing sticks and bags and vials and whatnot in the UK alone. All on the way to landfill.
Yes, best to keep for if you're going out and mixing indoors. But I was pleasantly surprised by how quick and easy it was. I actually enjoyed it - although I guess the novelty might soon wear off.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious gathering. Not sure your point makes sense. You are saying one risky activity takes precedence over another. Because Christmas.
You mean you weren’t protected by some kind of divine shield?
Indeed not. Since I believe in the non-existence of any supernatural being who can intervene in our lives, I wasn't wholly surprised.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
It really isn't. It is about not making exemptions on the grounds of religion. Which hypocrisy really is the worst thing for religion anyway. One rule for us and our God.
Nope, it is a culture war on the religious. End of.
Carnyx's whole point was to shut down Christian church services at its most important festival of the year, even before a full lockdown
Wouldn’t that be Easter? Crucifixion and resurrection and all that.
Christmas is a great inclusive festival within which the Christian bit gives us fantastic carols and rituals. As a non-believing but culturally Christian Englishman and choir member I’m a big fan, but it’s a shared festival, much more than Easter.
I remember when the vaccine was going to get us back to normality by summer. I told you all then that was absurd.
We have been back to normal for four blissful months – almost entirely because of the vaccines. So, I'm not sure what point you are making!
We haven’t though. The virus was still around causing damage. People ignored the virus, it doesn’t mean we were back to normal. The lack of mask wearing was really sad and sickening to see.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Who cares less about cases? Not me.
It is hospitalisations alone that matter in terms of lockdown and all the evidence is barely anyone who is double vaccinated and had their booster is hospitalised from Omicron, hence the more we get double jabbed and with their boosters the less we have any need of another lockdown
We know that cases are going to spike hugely. There is now enough evidence for that. We don’t yet know how severely it will affect people, especially double and booster vaccinated people. We don’t yet know the effect on hospitalisations. We do know that we can’t afford another lockdown, either financially or for people’s mental health. We will need to support those who would otherwise lose their livelihoods. After all this is over, we need to find a way of building more resilience into the health and social care services. The next election may be fought over the ways this is done, and how we pay for it.
We never were back at normality. That was the lie of the summer.
Yes we were, the "new normal".
The virus was circulating, it will always be circulating, that is normal, but we had no restrictions.
What wasn't normal in your eyes?
I have to agree with the exception of travel. Foreign travel was still very troublesome. However, if you stayed in the UK you could live almost as you were pre-Covid. The only other exception was having to isolate if you caught Covid.
My concern is that Omicron is this winter's threat. What will be the one in a year's time? Are we going to have to lockdown every year? That is not sustainable for us as a society.
I remember when the vaccine was going to get us back to normality by summer. I told you all then that was absurd.
We have been back to normal for four blissful months – almost entirely because of the vaccines. So, I'm not sure what point you are making!
We haven’t though. The virus was still around causing damage. People ignored the virus, it doesn’t mean we were back to normal. The lack of mask wearing was really sad and sickening to see.
The virus will always be around. What part of that are you struggling to understand? Are you planning to wear a mask until this magically goes away because it is never going to happen. Pandora's box has been opened, this can never be put back anymore.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
I absolutely agree that we do not have full data and confirmed facts yet. Which is why the powers that be said they needed until next week to get their facts together. The issue being that the more that the data comes together the worse the work in progress looks.
As for Leon's supposed "hysteria" it isn't he who has made me sit up and notice. It is the National Clinical Director here in Scotland. Who knows more about it than you or me.
Which is why Sturgeon is saying 'If we think something really needs to stop we will tell you that. Until then do what you're doing but do it safely"
And yes I understand that and I promise I don't think that Bill Gates now knows my Amazon Music playlist since I got the jab but there is also an element of state control in this. For Nicola Sturgeon = quite a big state kind of leader in particular. Plus she is undergoing an IndyRef2 crisis.
Seriously, I know I quote Confucius et al about this but what better way to ensure the docility of a nation than to scare it and "err" on the side of caution.
Is that 100% of it or 1%. No idea. It is not zero, however.
We never were back at normality. That was the lie of the summer.
Many people were back at normality. The country as a whole was not: the NHS was still under pressure, people were still dying, etc, etc. But many people did not choose to see any of that; and fair enough, in a way. I was pretty much back to 'normal'; the only exception being that I wore a mask when going into shops or public enclosed spaces. And that was my choice.
Lockdowns are an evil. Restrictions are terrible. But a failing health service is terrible, and deaths evil. We have to balance these awful things out; some people weight heavily one way; others the other.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
Leon has no grasp of the concept of complex adaptive systems. He doesn't seem to understand that his hysterical outpourings, day after day, have an effect on people – because there is no such thing as a closed network. In some small way he himself makes lockdowns more likely.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
What proportion of the population do you think can have Covid at once? We are at 1 in 60 right now in England and up at 1 in 50 in Wales.
Sure, cases can clearly rise further, but we aren't a million miles away from a natural limit (e.g. we peaked at 1 in 10 amongst school children).
Exponential growth can only go on for so long with a finite population.
It then reinfects people. Omicron doesn't seem to care if you've had Covid already.
We never were back at normality. That was the lie of the summer.
Many people were back at normality. The country as a whole was not: the NHS was still under pressure, people were still dying, etc, etc. But many people did not choose to see any of that; and fair enough, in a way. I was pretty much back to 'normal'; the only exception being that I wore a mask when going into shops or public enclosed spaces. And that was my choice.
Lockdowns are an evil. Restrictions are terrible. But a failing health service is terrible, and deaths evil. We have to balance these awful things out; some people weight heavily one way; others the other.
I’m accused of being in love with lockdowns. Which with my mental health issues is clearly absurd. I don’t want a lockdown, I just am struggling to see another outcome.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Where ought I, as a religiously observant left winger (in attendance 3 or.4 times a week on a 40 mile round trip on public transport), stand on this issue? Frankly. If your Faith needs exceptions made purely for its own convenience, then it isn't much of a Faith. And certainly is no example to the secular.
Blimey, that's a lot of church going. Are you a vicar ?
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
Most of the most vulnerable over 50s have had their boosters.
Plus symptoms only 'mild to moderate' amongst young people proves the point
But here’s another thing.
That cluster of 7 people ALL had recent boosters and they are all young. All had mild to moderate illness
They didn’t go to hospital but if you read the thread they had enough bad symptoms for a week in bed
So if everyone gets this - even if 90% get it mildly - that means EVERYONE spends a week in bed at the same time
That sounds fun but, in reality, what does it mean? The economy will simply grind to a total stop. Complete. No workers
Spending a week in bed? The horror.
So if a few spend a week in bed so what. Not everyone will get it at the same time and it will at least spread it through the younger population with mild or moderate symptoms to spread immunity.
Without destroying the economy and small businesses as another full lockdown will do
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
Really? Drakeford would shut down Christmas - I suspect not many on here would support that. Have you seen the covid rates in Wales - worse than in England, despite more restrictions for longer. Have you seen the state of the NHS in Wales? I could go on.
Johnson is a clown and a joke. The sooner he departs to earn money elsewhere the better for all, But don't mistake that for suddenly thinking that control freak Drakeford, he of the 'circuit-breaker', is somehow less useless than he was.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Why hasn't SA locked down ?
Dunno. Perhaps they are in the same place as us where it won't stop it and is impossible to implement anyway.
Seriously, think about how people would react if that lying wazzock rocks up to the rostrum and says "sorry everyone, lock yourselves down again". The hacks will berate him with questions about the parties that everyone barring HYUFD *knows* happened. And normals will say "why should I"?
SA are at least 2 weeks ahead of us, probably 4 weeks, they were lockdown hawks during Delta, you were beaten up by the police if you went out, yet this time nothing. They are not worried this time.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
It really isn't. It is about not making exemptions on the grounds of religion. Which hypocrisy really is the worst thing for religion anyway. One rule for us and our God.
Nope, it is a culture war on the religious. End of.
Carnyx's whole point was to shut down Christian church services at its most important festival of the year, even before a full lockdown
Wouldn’t that be Easter? Crucifixion and resurrection and all that.
Christmas is a great inclusive festival within which the Christian bit gives us fantastic carols and rituals. As a non-believing but culturally Christian Englishman and choir member I’m a big fan, but it’s a shared festival, much more than Easter.
Indeed. The great tell is almost all other non wacko fundamentalists of other faiths celebrate Christmas in some shape or form. Even in countries with tiny Christian populations. It is the default mid-winter festival. Or Summer Down Under. Precious no- one secular celebrates Easter. Beyond a chocolate egg or a meal.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
What proportion of the population do you think can have Covid at once? We are at 1 in 60 right now in England and up at 1 in 50 in Wales.
Sure, cases can clearly rise further, but we aren't a million miles away from a natural limit (e.g. we peaked at 1 in 10 amongst school children).
Exponential growth can only go on for so long with a finite population.
It then reinfects people. Omicron doesn't seem to care if you've had Covid already.
Hopefully it cares if people have had the actual Omicron variant previously though.
One thing about the way we count Covid numbers is reinfections aren't in the headline case number I believe. I think that should be changed for more accurate information.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.
You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.
It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
I don't think anyone actually knows what will happen, yet. I think we will have a good idea in the next couple of weeks though.
Exactly, and simply denying the possible need for controls is not good enough, thouigh I do hope they won't be needed.
I’m a centrist dad too but one who feels we’ve got the thresholds wrong.
Relieving pressure on the NHS isn’t enough to justify restrictions. It never was for any other infectious disease. Avoiding system collapse so that public health outcomes suffer is the threshold, and is why lockdowns pre-vaccine in 2020 and last winter were probably justified. Now, to my mind, any restrictions simply delay the inevitable, they don’t save lives.
We need to relieve pressure on the NHS by investing in capacity, efficiency and people.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
Most of the most vulnerable over 50s have had their boosters.
Plus symptoms only 'mild to moderate' amongst young people proves the point
But here’s another thing.
That cluster of 7 people ALL had recent boosters and they are all young. All had mild to moderate illness
They didn’t go to hospital but if you read the thread they had enough bad symptoms for a week in bed
So if everyone gets this - even if 90% get it mildly - that means EVERYONE spends a week in bed at the same time
That sounds fun but, in reality, what does it mean? The economy will simply grind to a total stop. Complete. No workers
Ah I see you are taking a sample size of seven to argue for a total lockdown meaning the economy grinds to a halt to prevent the economy grinding to a halt.
Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon
He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
We’ve moved on somewhat. I’m old enough to remember when the party line you followed was that there was no party.
Laughable by the way to pretend BoJo didn’t know about it or give permission for it. It was at best a politically risky bending of the rules and it was in his bloody house! If he really didn’t know about it and is outraged by it, why has he not named and shamed the organiser and sacked them? Given we now know invitations were sent out weeks in advance.
So not only is HYUFD the only Tory in the village, he is also the only Christian in the village.
All you false Tories who commit the crime if being northern or poor or not having an expensive enough house or having once voted for another.
Here comes St HYUFD, the only true believer in God's love to preach to you all about humility. Blessed are the poor in spirit! For they will be cast out of the party. Blessed are those who mourn! They are all traitors! Blessed are the meek! For we do not need their votes.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Why hasn't SA locked down ?
Dunno. Perhaps they are in the same place as us where it won't stop it and is impossible to implement anyway.
Seriously, think about how people would react if that lying wazzock rocks up to the rostrum and says "sorry everyone, lock yourselves down again". The hacks will berate him with questions about the parties that everyone barring HYUFD *knows* happened. And normals will say "why should I"?
SA are at least 2 weeks ahead of us, probably 4 weeks, they were lockdown hawks during Delta, you were beaten up by the police if you went out, yet this time nothing. They are not worried this time.
Indeed – SA was one of the most hawkish countries in the G20 during delta. A fact too easily forgotten.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
Sad to say but yes. Without another vaccine (and another and another) we are in the era of more virulent viruses.
The Mirror are going to implicate BoJo in one of these parties. They have something big and they will be releasing it soon, they've been teasing it most of the week.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
Drakeford is s**t, even worse than Boris. Like Nicola or Saint Jacinda.
TSE has had a weird man-crush on "the Drake" for months now, I'm not sure if he's being serious or its a very deep trolling effort.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
My fear is less a complete lockdown but further restrictions like we saw during the gradual unlocking last year. Justified with "slowing the pace of growth" / "spread cases out over time to ease pressure on the NHS".
Sadly, my sense is that's the direction of travel.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
Most of the most vulnerable over 50s have had their boosters.
Plus symptoms only 'mild to moderate' amongst young people proves the point
But here’s another thing.
That cluster of 7 people ALL had recent boosters and they are all young. All had mild to moderate illness
They didn’t go to hospital but if you read the thread they had enough bad symptoms for a week in bed
So if everyone gets this - even if 90% get it mildly - that means EVERYONE spends a week in bed at the same time
That sounds fun but, in reality, what does it mean? The economy will simply grind to a total stop. Complete. No workers
Ah I see you are taking a sample size of seven to argue for a total lockdown meaning the economy grinds to a halt to prevent the economy grinding to a halt.
Gotit.
Some PBers give every impression of wanting another lockdown. They not actually desire that, but they present as if they do.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
Leon has no grasp of the concept of complex adaptive systems. He doesn't seem to understand that his hysterical outpourings, day after day, have an effect on people – because there is no such thing as a closed network. In some small way he himself makes lockdowns more likely.
Desist.
So, what, lockdowns are actually my fault?! Lol. Who knew? The power of the dildo knapper on PB! The power of PB!
Fwiw if you actually read my commentary rather than weeping like a girl guide in terror, and asking to borrow Topping’s teddy bear from his boarding school days, you’d know I am pretty much anti lockdown
I don’t support plan B. Said it on here many times. I am unconvinced any lockdown can stop Omicron
What I do have is an ability to assimilate information and impart it to others in a pithy way, very quickly. That’s it. Sorry if it upsets.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
Leon has no grasp of the concept of complex adaptive systems. He doesn't seem to understand that his hysterical outpourings, day after day, have an effect on people – because there is no such thing as a closed network. In some small way he himself makes lockdowns more likely.
Desist.
Yes I do agree. But also he is like this (psychotherapists gown on) because the more hysterical he is on here the more people tell him not to be hysterical and hence he is given some balance in his life from sane people and can calm down and be reassured that the world won't end tomorrow whereas without it he would be left to the doomier side of Twitter.
Confirmed list of Tory rebels who will vote against the Plan B measures next week, thus requiring Boris to have Labour votes to get them through.
• Steve Baker • Ben Bradley • Brendan Clarke-Smith • Graham Brady • Philip Davies • Richard Drax • Simon Jupp • Stephen McPartland • John Redwood • Greg Smith • Dehenna Davison • Marcus Fysh • Gary Sambrook • Pauline Latham • William Wragg • Geoffrey Clifton-Brown • Iain Duncan Smith • Christopher Chope • Craig Tracey • Robert Syms • Anthony Mangnall • Greg Clark • Esther McVey • Liam Fox • David Davis • Mark Jenkinson • Mark Harper • Darren Henry • Steve Brine • Craig Mackinlay • Simon Fell • Andrew Bowie • David Warburton • Siobhan Baillie • David Jones • Tom Randall • Ben Spencer • Andrew Rosindell • Charles Walker • Douglas Ross • Karl McCartney • Anne Marie Morris • Johnny Mercer • Tom Tugendhat • Richard Fuller • Giles Watling • Desmond Swayne • Andrew Bridgen • Andrew Lewer https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1469257084285997057?s=20
These brave crusaders for individual liberties will be cheering the Patel Bill though won't they?
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious gathering. Not sure your point makes sense. You are saying one risky activity takes precedence over another. Because Christmas.
You mean you weren’t protected by some kind of divine shield?
Indeed not. Since I believe in the non-existence of any supernatural being who can intervene in our lives, I wasn't wholly surprised.
Best not waste your life worshipping some being that can’t help you at all, then? Try becoming a catholic; you can lead whatever life you want provided that at the last minute you confess everything.
People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.
The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
I remember when people here said how rubbish Drakeford was. Strangely they’ve gone quiet.
Drakeford is s**t, even worse than Boris. Like Nicola or Saint Jacinda.
TSE has had a weird man-crush on "the Drake" for months now, I'm not sure if he's being serious or its a very deep trolling effort.
He's helped me win lots of money.
What I respect about you is that you're one of the few who doesn't seem to have an agenda on this issue. You like to win money and you go where the facts are.
The reality is that Drakeford is very successful and popular in Wales. The Tories hate this but it is reality.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.
In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."
"It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.
"Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.
However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.
We would fight it all the way and rightly so
One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.
You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.
We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
I didn't say C of E did I?
I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.
You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.
Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.
I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.
If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.
This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.
Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.
Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.
70% of the country has not had a booster. And most of them are now months from that 2nd jab
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness: First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
If you’d all listened to me and restricted when I said, we’d have done a lot better. Once again people are in denial about this virus.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
Codswallop. You're in denial about the reality of restrictions.
You've been calling for restrictions forever. Under no circumstances can we accept any more restrictions. If Omicron spreads then anyone afraid of it should hide themselves, not others.
We? You mean you. We being the general population who hate restrictions and feel pretty fed up will likely accept at least some of them and feel societal pressure to at least look like we're doing so.
And then we have the minority. The paranoids. The psychotics. The gammoners. Your new mates apparently.
I remember when the vaccine was going to get us back to normality by summer. I told you all then that was absurd.
If we go to lockdowns every time we have a new variant it will destroy the economy in due course and lead to mass unemployment in the private sector outside the likes of delivery firms like Amazon.
Double vaccination and boosters reduce the risk of hospitalisation to near zero, there must be no more lockdowns
Nonsense. Given infection, double vaccination has been found to reduce the likelihood of hospitalisation by about a factor of three. That was with earlier variants that didn't show the immune escape capability of Omicron.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
What proportion of the population do you think can have Covid at once? We are at 1 in 60 right now in England and up at 1 in 50 in Wales.
Sure, cases can clearly rise further, but we aren't a million miles away from a natural limit (e.g. we peaked at 1 in 10 amongst school children).
Exponential growth can only go on for so long with a finite population.
It then reinfects people. Omicron doesn't seem to care if you've had Covid already.
I doubt it re-infects people who have already have Omicron though (or at least not to the same extent as other variants).
Seriously, who wants another lockdown? It's going to destroy my health and I won't be able to see my counsellor. But I do think it is starting to be unavoidable.
The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.
If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader
So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?
1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”
2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all
Calm yourself.
Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.
But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.
So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.
Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
Not yet we're not. We might be but we're not now. We are in fact a long way from that. Let us see how it progresses. As for Leon (and you? Hadn't noticed), would it be helpful if I said Omicron isn't going to affect us in any way whatsoever and there will be precisely no impact on health or NHS services.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
But we DO know. We now have lots of data. The evidence for immune escape is unquestioned. The evidence for greater admissibility is unquestioned. The evidence for mildness v virulence is out there but fiercely disputed
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
Again, calm yourself. Let's suppose you and Chris are right. 800k cases a day shortly. So what's the plan. We can't eradicate so let's lock down. And wait. And guess what, the virus will wait so when we unlock ka-pow! It hits us and we get the 800k cases/day.
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
If it hits 800k a day then it hits 800k a day. That's 5.6 million people a week. Within a couple of months everyone has had it and life goes on because that's over and done with.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
"Life goes on"
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
I would say that it might be an idea to keep off the newswires and twitter. Reading tweets no matter how informed or many virology or epidemiology qualifications the writer has is I can assure you going to do nothing for anyone's mental health.
I'm not saying stick you head in the sand, I am saying that twitter (and PB if L**n is posting) can be a maelstrom and amplifier of bad news.
What will be will be so let it come to you without giving up your well-being in advance.
And even if the virus does hit 800k/day then we will cope. You will cope.
So I've spoken to a former Vote Leave staffer who knows people who work(ed) for Boris Johnson and others.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
If you’d all listened to me and restricted when I said, we’d have done a lot better. Once again people are in denial about this virus.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
Codswallop. You're in denial about the reality of restrictions.
You've been calling for restrictions forever. Under no circumstances can we accept any more restrictions. If Omicron spreads then anyone afraid of it should hide themselves, not others.
We? You mean you. We being the general population who hate restrictions and feel pretty fed up will likely accept at least some of them and feel societal pressure to at least look like we're doing so.
And then we have the minority. The paranoids. The psychotics. The gammoners. Your new mates apparently.
The paranoids psychotics are those calling for new lockdown measures that will destroy people's businesses, mental health, opportunities etc in order to prevent what for most vaccinated people will be no more than the sniffles.
Comments
This was a one time time coalition and it will not be repeated.
Would be ridiculous, right? Because as it stands we don't know what it will do. Will its seeming increased transmissability overwhelm its supposed mildness, or vice versa we just don't know so indulging Leon's hysteria is bad for his health to start with and adds precisely nothing to the debate.
Cases in wales per 100,000: 520
All those extra restrictions and wiles still has more cases.
Meanwhile, see here:
“Omicron's formidable immune evasiveness:
First report of a cluster of 7 cases in young people all with 3rd shots 1-2 months previously, high anti-spike antibody levels. Symptoms mild to moderate papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cf…”
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1469295967019036672?s=21
Seriously, think about how people would react if that lying wazzock rocks up to the rostrum and says "sorry everyone, lock yourselves down again". The hacks will berate him with questions about the parties that everyone barring HYUFD *knows* happened. And normals will say "why should I"?
On the data we have seen, imagine 100 people in that church - 50 will be infected, quite a few are old so 1 or 2 will die quite possibly.
Would you feel happy about that?
Boris has no moral authority to put us into any restrictions. If there are to be restrictions due to Omicron then it'll have to be a different Prime Minister who does that. The PM who flouted his own regulations last year simply will be told to f**k off this year if he tries to do that again, and quite right too.
No to any more restrictions. Boris's only hope of survival now is to hope that he can get us through the winter without anything, because if he can't, he has to go.
Frankly. If your Faith needs exceptions made purely for its own convenience, then it isn't much of a Faith.
And certainly is no example to the secular.
Alpha/Kent came in at just the wrong time last year: another couple of months, and we'd have had a lot more people protected with the vaccines, *and* the Christmas push over. Omicron seems to have come in at just the wrong time as well - although as with all these things, there's probably no 'right' time; only less wrong times.
From Thursday 5 November, everyone must stay at home, and may leave only for a limited set of reasons. These include:
For education;
For work, if you cannot work from home;
For exercise and recreation outdoors, with your household, support bubble or on your own with one person from another household;
For all medical reasons, appointments and to escape injury or harm;
To shop for food and essentials;
And to provide care for vulnerable people, or as a volunteer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/prime-minister-announces-new-national-restrictions
TSE has had a weird man-crush on "the Drake" for months now, I'm not sure if he's being serious or its a very deep trolling effort.
The goalposts on Omicron have been shifted again. First it was no threat, then a little threat and now it’s a real threat. This was obvious from day 1
Sure if you want to twiddle your thumbs and talk about something else, to make yourself feel better, knock yourself out
But this is a site for political and general speculation and we will speculate on the ongoing global health crisis, the worst in a century, now clearly entering an ominous new phase
If I am religious I believe in eternal life and also full religious ceremony for the faithful including the sacraments at the most important Christian festival of the year.
Denial of that when most of them will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters and at barely any risk of hospitalisation is a declaration of cultural war on Christians
And yet they fawn over BoJo who does the same thing. Strange that.
He who would valiant be, 'gainst all the wokies
Let him in constancy, vote for the Tories
There's no discouragement, shall make him see they're bent
His first avowed intent, to keep the Blues in
Which hypocrisy really is the worst thing for religion anyway. One rule for us and our God.
Sure, cases can clearly rise further, but we aren't a million miles away from a natural limit (e.g. we peaked at 1 in 10 amongst school children).
Exponential growth can only go on for so long with a finite population.
As for Leon's supposed "hysteria" it isn't he who has made me sit up and notice. It is the National Clinical Director here in Scotland. Who knows more about it than you or me.
Which is why Sturgeon is saying 'If we think something really needs to stop we will tell you that. Until then do what you're doing but do it safely"
Plus symptoms only 'mild to moderate' amongst young people proves the point
Insert "the overwhelming majority of" before "these"
You've been calling for restrictions forever. Under no circumstances can we accept any more restrictions. If Omicron spreads then anyone afraid of it should hide themselves, not others.
Double vaccination and boosters reduce the risk of hospitalisation to near zero, there must be no more lockdowns
No more restrictions, not now, not ever.
Last November, Christmas I was shouted down. Two weeks ago I was shouted down.
Carnyx's whole point was to shut down Christian church services at its most important festival of the year, even before a full lockdown
Boris could do one last decent thing and admit that he has made a mess of things and needs to hand over power to someone with cleaner hands. He'd get some small amount of credit for that. Sadly I expect that his ego is too big to admit his faults, and instead more people will die because Boris remains PM.
After my 2 premium-economy AZs will it be business class Pfizer or plutocratic Moderna?
For once the Government acted early by putting masks back in.
Four weeks ago.
Five weeks ago.
Six weeks ago.
You are like Ambrose Evans Pritchard in your relentless negativity. You've called for 57 of the last 2 lockdowns.
Well we've boostered 22m people now, so this all feels like a cooked up nonsense from the convenient agreement of the health lobby who have no idea what life is like outside a school or a hospital, and a prime minister desperate for a distraction.
The best way to avoid more lockdowns
The virus was circulating, it will always be circulating, that is normal, but we had no restrictions.
What wasn't normal in your eyes?
We really have to trust (yes, I mean hope) the vaccines do their job and the NHS can cope.
I really don't see an unlocking point if we lockdown now. Beth Rigby got it right. And hysterical ****s like you lead the govt to believe they have the people on their side.
Thank god for Steve Baker et al.
Christmas is a great inclusive festival within which the Christian bit gives us fantastic carols and rituals. As a non-believing but culturally Christian Englishman and choir member I’m a big fan, but it’s a shared festival, much more than Easter.
That's the only way to get through this now. It hits however it hits, the NHS copes as well as it can, vaccines do as much as they can, and anyone who dies is mourned but life goes on.
That cluster of 7 people ALL had recent boosters and they are all young. All had mild to moderate illness
They didn’t go to hospital but if you read the thread they had enough bad symptoms for a week in bed
So if everyone gets this - even if 90% get it mildly - that means EVERYONE spends a week in bed at the same time
That sounds fun but, in reality, what does it mean? The economy will simply grind to a total stop. Complete. No workers
My concern is that Omicron is this winter's threat. What will be the one in a year's time? Are we going to have to lockdown every year? That is not sustainable for us as a society.
Seriously, I know I quote Confucius et al about this but what better way to ensure the docility of a nation than to scare it and "err" on the side of caution.
Is that 100% of it or 1%. No idea. It is not zero, however.
Lockdowns are an evil. Restrictions are terrible. But a failing health service is terrible, and deaths evil. We have to balance these awful things out; some people weight heavily one way; others the other.
Desist.
So if a few spend a week in bed so what. Not everyone will get it at the same time and it will at least spread it through the younger population with mild or moderate symptoms to spread immunity.
Without destroying the economy and small businesses as another full lockdown will do
Johnson is a clown and a joke. The sooner he departs to earn money elsewhere the better for all, But don't mistake that for suddenly thinking that control freak Drakeford, he of the 'circuit-breaker', is somehow less useless than he was.
The great tell is almost all other non wacko fundamentalists of other faiths celebrate Christmas in some shape or form. Even in countries with tiny Christian populations. It is the default mid-winter festival. Or Summer Down Under.
Precious no- one secular celebrates Easter. Beyond a chocolate egg or a meal.
One thing about the way we count Covid numbers is reinfections aren't in the headline case number I believe. I think that should be changed for more accurate information.
Relieving pressure on the NHS isn’t enough to justify restrictions. It never was for any other infectious disease. Avoiding system collapse so that public health outcomes suffer is the threshold, and is why lockdowns pre-vaccine in 2020 and last winter were probably justified. Now, to my mind, any restrictions simply delay the inevitable, they don’t save lives.
We need to relieve pressure on the NHS by investing in capacity, efficiency and people.
Gotit.
Laughable by the way to pretend BoJo didn’t know about it or give permission for it. It was at best a politically risky bending of the rules and it was in his bloody house! If he really didn’t know about it and is outraged by it, why has he not named and shamed the organiser and sacked them? Given we now know invitations were sent out weeks in advance.
All you false Tories who commit the crime if being northern or poor or not having an expensive enough house or having once voted for another.
Here comes St HYUFD, the only true believer in God's love to preach to you all about humility. Blessed are the poor in spirit! For they will be cast out of the party. Blessed are those who mourn! They are all traitors! Blessed are the meek! For we do not need their votes.
I think he was there and he broke the rules.
Sadly, my sense is that's the direction of travel.
We are screwed.
Fwiw if you actually read my commentary rather than weeping like a girl guide in terror, and asking to borrow Topping’s teddy bear from his boarding school days, you’d know I am pretty much anti lockdown
I don’t support plan B. Said it on here many times. I am unconvinced any lockdown can stop Omicron
What I do have is an ability to assimilate information and impart it to others in a pithy way, very quickly. That’s it. Sorry if it upsets.
Leon, your welcome.
The reality is that Drakeford is very successful and popular in Wales. The Tories hate this but it is reality.
I'm surprised this seemingly facile point gets missed almost always.
And then we have the minority. The paranoids. The psychotics. The gammoners. Your new mates apparently.
Well, yes. Except for those who die, obviously. They've gone on to your nirvanic ultimate freedom ...
I'm not saying stick you head in the sand, I am saying that twitter (and PB if L**n is posting) can be a maelstrom and amplifier of bad news.
What will be will be so let it come to you without giving up your well-being in advance.
And even if the virus does hit 800k/day then we will cope. You will cope.
The restrictions have been brought in for a couple of reasons.
1) People are going to see family and friends for Christmas, this way they'll be cautious so Christmas won't be the superspreader event.
2) Boris Johnson and others are convinced that given the sheer number of unjabbed and not thrice jabbed the NHS will be overwhelmed this winter. Not just overwhelmed but the NHS will collapse under that sheer weight. The PM and party that oversees the collapse of the NHS will be out of power for decades, like the winter of discontent on speed.
(There are a few other reasons, but minor on their own, but cumulatively...)
The price is simply not worth paying.