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The Number 10 party story is really cutting through to voters – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited December 2021 in General
The Number 10 party story is really cutting through to voters – politicalbetting.com

Started filming in North Shropshire this morning. Took about 30 seconds before a member of the public (unprompted) mentioned the party story.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.
  • Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon
  • Dr John's video yesterday was *very* bullish about Omicron spreading rapidly, driving out Delta, but being very mild. He reckoned in a couple of weeks time the pandemic could effectively be over, but it will be squeaky bum time until then.

    However, he has been wrong before, notably on Ivermectin
  • Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.

  • People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021

    Dr John's video yesterday was *very* bullish about Omicron spreading rapidly, driving out Delta, but being very mild. He reckoned in a couple of weeks time the pandemic could effectively be over, but it will be squeaky bum time until then.

    However, he has been wrong before, notably on Ivermectin

    In the past couple of months he has gone down a few rabbit holes that are a bit iffy. He still pushing the Ivermectin angle.
  • Some people on PB give every impression of wanting another lockdown. It really is an unedifying spectacle.

    Who? Name names.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas. Boris I think will at least keep England open this Christmas, even if we have to have mandatory facemasks and vaxports to do so
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 2,706
    Another LD gain in Tonbridge & Malling overnight:

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1469296017598300165

    LDEM: 49.6% (+17.7)
    CON: 39.8% (+4.0)
    GRN: 8.7% (+8.7)
    LAB: 1.9% (-4.1)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    Good god
  • PhilPhil Posts: 661

    Dr John's video yesterday was *very* bullish about Omicron spreading rapidly, driving out Delta, but being very mild. He reckoned in a couple of weeks time the pandemic could effectively be over, but it will be squeaky bum time until then.

    However, he has been wrong before, notably on Ivermectin

    In the past couple of months he has gone down a few rabbit holes that are a bit iffy. He still pushing the Ivermectin angle.
    I’m particularly fond of the idea that Ivermectin looks like it works in some decent studies because the study participants were infected with liver flukes & Covid treatment with steroids lets the flukes rip through the body because it halts the immune response that was keeping them in check. Ivermectin kills the flukes, so those patients have a higher survival rate.

    Apparently there’s a correlation between positive outcome Ivermectin studies & locations where liver flukes are endemic, which is suggestive, but not actually proof outright.

    If this is the case then Ivermectin is important in treating Covid in areas with endemic fluke infections (and indeed, in those areas it’s already standard practice to give anti-worming drugs alongside steroids for this reason I believe) but is otherwise completely irrelevant!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021
    Confirmed list of Tory rebels who will vote against the Plan B measures next week, thus requiring Boris to have Labour votes to get them through.

    • Steve Baker
    • Ben Bradley
    • Brendan Clarke-Smith
    • Graham Brady
    • Philip Davies
    • Richard Drax
    • Simon Jupp
    • Stephen McPartland
    • John Redwood
    • Greg Smith
    • Dehenna Davison
    • Marcus Fysh
    • Gary Sambrook
    • Pauline Latham
    • William Wragg
    • Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    • Iain Duncan Smith
    • Christopher Chope
    • Craig Tracey
    • Robert Syms
    • Anthony Mangnall
    • Greg Clark
    • Esther McVey
    • Liam Fox
    • David Davis
    • Mark Jenkinson
    • Mark Harper
    • Darren Henry
    • Steve Brine
    • Craig Mackinlay
    • Simon Fell
    • Andrew Bowie
    • David Warburton
    • Siobhan Baillie
    • David Jones
    • Tom Randall
    • Ben Spencer
    • Andrew Rosindell
    • Charles Walker
    • Douglas Ross
    • Karl McCartney
    • Anne Marie Morris
    • Johnny Mercer
    • Tom Tugendhat
    • Richard Fuller
    • Giles Watling
    • Desmond Swayne
    • Andrew Bridgen
    • Andrew Lewer
    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1469257084285997057?s=20
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    edited December 2021
    Phil said:

    Dr John's video yesterday was *very* bullish about Omicron spreading rapidly, driving out Delta, but being very mild. He reckoned in a couple of weeks time the pandemic could effectively be over, but it will be squeaky bum time until then.

    However, he has been wrong before, notably on Ivermectin

    In the past couple of months he has gone down a few rabbit holes that are a bit iffy. He still pushing the Ivermectin angle.
    I’m particularly fond of the idea that Ivermectin looks like it works in some decent studies because the study participants were infected with liver flukes & Covid treatment with steroids lets the flukes rip through the body because it halts the immune response that was keeping them in check. Ivermectin kills the flukes, so those patients have a higher survival rate.

    Apparently there’s a correlation between positive outcome Ivermectin studies & locations where liver flukes are endemic, which is suggestive, but not actually proof outright.

    If this is the case then Ivermectin is important in treating Covid in areas with endemic fluke infections (and indeed, in those areas it’s already standard practice to give anti-worming drugs alongside steroids for this reason I believe) but is otherwise completely irrelevant!
    Like prophylactics against malaria, cryptosporidium, etc., in high-HIV areas, or transplant patients? I can certainly take that hypothesis very seriously, because it makes such good sense.

    Editt: Presumably that includes schistosomiasis (VERY NASTY) as well as those sheep liver flukes we used to see in biology lessons?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.

    You are getting desperate.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    US Inflation in November rose to 6.8% (y/y) – the highest since 1982. The US has now experienced six months of over 5% inflation.

    Now, about those idiots advising Biden that fire up the printer, because inflation was a solved problem in the West...no more boom and bust.

    And of course, this will filter through to the UK.
  • Watching back over the Sturgeon presser. She is so good at this. Calm, measured, crystal clear.
  • glwglw Posts: 7,962
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
    There is only 0.3% difference, that is not "a lot" by any normal standard. Scotland does seem to going a little bit faster, and Northern Ireland is as usual at the rear, but these differneces are probably mainly due to demographics than any other factor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Also, Mr J hasn't sacked anyone - except a blonde lady left carrying the metaphorical baby for the crime of her sin becoming in public. (Buit not the man in the case ...).
  • IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    What we know:
    1. BJ was in Downing Street
    2. The party was in Downing Street
    3. BJ claims to have no knowledge of the party going on in the building he was in
    4. Even if he was not there he will have noticed it happening. So he is lying to parliament again
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    What we know:
    1. BJ was in Downing Street
    2. The party was in Downing Street
    3. BJ claims to have no knowledge of the party going on in the building he was in
    4. Even if he was not there he will have noticed it happening. So he is lying to parliament again
    Maybe he's deaf from covid? But the smells, the vibrations, just going downstairs ... and Mrs J would have been with him.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    Gibberish, people can quite safely be convicted on circumstantial evidence alone. Look at Rose West, not for nothing is there a book about her called She Must Have Known. Would do for boris actually with a pronoun tweak.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 1,030
    If Scotland and Wales want to lock down, but the UK government refuse any financial support, what happens, and will it affect voting intentions?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660
    Interesting how all the reporting of this, inc on the relatively govt friendly Beeb, talks of the Downing St party. No 'alleged' or 'gathering' or any use of inverteds. This despite it being subject to an ongoing investigation by the cabinet secretary. That it wasn't a party - if this is what Simon Case concludes - is going to be a hard sell.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,632
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
    Not really

    Boosters in Wales 37.9%
    Boosters in England 37.3%

    unless you call 0.3% 'a lot better'
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    Gibberish, people can quite safely be convicted on circumstantial evidence alone. Look at Rose West, not for nothing is there a book about her called She Must Have Known. Would do for boris actually with a pronoun tweak.
    Not the same. West was convicted in part on the testimony of witnesses like Jack Leach that Rose West had indeed murdered one of the victims.

    There has been no witness evidence Boris attended any of these parties
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    "Circumstantial evidence" is evidence.
    "Reasonable doubt" is a possible conclusion one can come do after weighing the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 68,582
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    But what would that achieve....if it spreads this quickly, we would have to be in a Chinese style lockdown for 6 months until the new Pfizer jab was available.

    100 people will be in supermarkets most of the time, 1 infected person walks in, even with masks etc, you going to spread it to loads of people, as hardly anybody uses a FFP3 mask and / or doesn't spend half their time pulling up / down / round and round.
  • People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    'I'm the PM. Nobody likes me. I don't care.'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    BigRich said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
    Not really

    Boosters in Wales 37.9%
    Boosters in England 37.3%

    unless you call 0.3% 'a lot better'
    Look at the % of eligibility here

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59491605
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    Who cares less about cases? Not me.

    It is hospitalisations alone that matter in terms of lockdown and all the evidence is barely anyone who is double vaccinated and had their booster is hospitalised from Omicron, hence the more we get double jabbed and with their boosters the less we have any need of another lockdown
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 21,298
    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    If there is to be a lockdown - and this is what I expect - there simply has to be financial support.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,511
    edited December 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender. (And particularly in Epping)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    "Circumstantial evidence" is evidence.
    "Reasonable doubt" is a possible conclusion one can come do after weighing the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.
    If you are a leftwinger like you with an ideological agenda to remove the most successful Tory general election winner since Thatcher, yes
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021
    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    Calm yourself.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 26,660

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I did one of those for the 1st time last week. Very easy! I'd be happy enough to add it to my morning routine.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    "Circumstantial evidence" is evidence.
    "Reasonable doubt" is a possible conclusion one can come do after weighing the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.
    If you are a leftwinger like you with an ideological agenda to remove the most successful Tory general election winner since Thatcher, yes
    You';d complain about the circumstantial evidence used to remove Harold Shipman, too, I assume?
  • glwglw Posts: 7,962
    edited December 2021
    BigRich said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
    Not really

    Boosters in Wales 37.9%
    Boosters in England 37.3%

    unless you call 0.3% 'a lot better'
    These kind of comparisons about which nation is doing better are always a bit daft. Given that we prioritise everything we have done by age and vulnerability, it tends to mean that Scotland leads because it has an older population than the UK as a whole, and Northern Ireland lags behind as it has a younger population, and England is pretty much identical to the UK as a whole because it makes up 90% of the UK population.

    This is becoming a bit like one of those dubious arguments that people make up about regional differences in a country which basically boil down to population map.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender. (And particularly in Epping)
    All the way, apart from voting out the people introducing it of course.....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 3,511
    edited December 2021
    I think I have Boris's defence. It's a myth that much of the £112k spent on refurbishing No. 10/11 was spent on wallpaper and other trivia.

    In fact, most of if was spent on serious sound-proofing, so that Carrie and Wilf would not be disturbed by the parties going on elsewhere in the building.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 2,632
    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
    Not really

    Boosters in Wales 37.9%
    Boosters in England 37.3%

    unless you call 0.3% 'a lot better'
    Look at the % of eligibility here

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59491605
    That's from the 2nd of December and uses data even older than that.

    for up to date data look here:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    Plot and lost spring to mind!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    Gibberish, people can quite safely be convicted on circumstantial evidence alone. Look at Rose West, not for nothing is there a book about her called She Must Have Known. Would do for boris actually with a pronoun tweak.
    Not the same. West was convicted in part on the testimony of witnesses like Jack Leach that Rose West had indeed murdered one of the victims.

    There has been no witness evidence Boris attended any of these parties
    Utterly untrue. And you have misnamed and misgendered Janet Leach, who only gave evidence as to what Fred West said to her.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 33,021
    edited December 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    Difficult one to unpick. I think it's "us".

    "...blah blah blah you are the enemy of us conservatives..." Doesn't sound right but grammatically I think it is right.

    Go again.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    Gibberish, people can quite safely be convicted on circumstantial evidence alone. Look at Rose West, not for nothing is there a book about her called She Must Have Known. Would do for boris actually with a pronoun tweak.
    Not the same. West was convicted in part on the testimony of witnesses like Jack Leach that Rose West had indeed murdered one of the victims.

    There has been no witness evidence Boris attended any of these parties
    Boris Johnson is accused of attending parties in Cromwell Street? Oh how exciting? Please do tell us more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


  • kinabalu said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I did one of those for the 1st time last week. Very easy! I'd be happy enough to add it to my morning routine.
    How have you only just done a LFT for the first time last week? I've lost count of the number I've done in the last year.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 938
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    Shropshire may be Stalingrad for Boris but there is still two and a half years of defeat and retreat, so if HYFUD is already chewing the carpet today, what's he going to be like at the locals next year?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    That is an absolutely appalling thing to say. It's "of us Conservatives."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    BigRich said:

    Carnyx said:

    BigRich said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I wish we England had Mark Drakeford as our Prime Minister, even the Chief Executive of Millwall is saying no one will respect the rules in England because the Prime Minister is a liar and hypocrite.
    If we had Drakeford as UK PM it really would be a full lockdown for England again this winter and another cancelled Christmas
    He's doing a lot better on boosters than Mr Johnson.
    Not really

    Boosters in Wales 37.9%
    Boosters in England 37.3%

    unless you call 0.3% 'a lot better'
    Look at the % of eligibility here

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59491605
    That's from the 2nd of December and uses data even older than that.

    for up to date data look here:

    https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
    Oh good, thank you.
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I'm meant to be singing in a carol concert at our local church in a week's time, raising money to help fund a refugee family to make their home in our neighbourhood. I wonder where this concert sits in the culture war, and more importantly whether it's actually going to happen. The mulled wine and mince pies for afterwards have already fallen victim to cancel culture.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    HYUFD said:

    Farooq said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    He's the boss and this would not have taken place at Number 10 without his express permission.
    Why would it? Is there any evidence Boris gave express permission for some of his staff to have this party? No.
    The fact of it happening is strong circumstantial evidence of it having his approval.

    There may also be cctv evidence we have yet to see. I do hope Case has demanded all cctv records for the period in question. Should tell us whether bojo was indahouse atdatime.
    Circumstantial evidence is not actual evidence beyond reasonable doubt
    "Circumstantial evidence" is evidence.
    "Reasonable doubt" is a possible conclusion one can come do after weighing the evidence, including circumstantial evidence.
    If you are a leftwinger like you with an ideological agenda to remove the most successful Tory general election winner since Thatcher, yes
    Not left wing, but very keen on removing Boris from power yes.
    But my beliefs are really besides the point. Circumstantial evidence is evidence. The idea that "circumstantial" evidence is somehow worthless is a popular myth. Take for example the mythical "smoking gun". Finding a literal smoking gun at the scene of a murder is circumstantial evidence, but potentially pretty important.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 5,083
    According to HYUFD there's no evidence that Boris was at the party or approved of it. It's quite possible he simply doesn't have any control over his office or staff.

    I'm not sure which is worse.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    Shropshire may be Stalingrad for Boris but there is still two and a half years of defeat and retreat, so if HYFUD is already chewing the carpet today, what's he going to be like at the locals next year?
    I have campaigned in local elections for the Tories since the 1990s, the election battle continues up or down
  • IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    That is an absolutely appalling thing to say. It's "of us Conservatives."
    Maybe he meant "wee Conservatives", in preparation for Rishi Sunak taking over.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I'm meant to be singing in a carol concert at our local church in a week's time, raising money to help fund a refugee family to make their home in our neighbourhood. I wonder where this concert sits in the culture war, and more importantly whether it's actually going to happen. The mulled wine and mince pies for afterwards have already fallen victim to cancel culture.
    Definitely the Wrong Sort of carol.

    I do hope they have a whipround if it is cancelled.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 3,689
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    The "we" here is interesting seeing as you spend so much effort making sure that everyone else is excluded from your little little ascetic platform of purity.

    HYUFD Stylites, alone atop his pillar, shouting proclamations into the empty desert.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    HYUFD said:

    Confirmed list of Tory rebels who will vote against the Plan B measures next week, thus requiring Boris to have Labour votes to get them through.

    • Steve Baker
    • Ben Bradley
    • Brendan Clarke-Smith
    • Graham Brady
    • Philip Davies
    • Richard Drax
    • Simon Jupp
    • Stephen McPartland
    • John Redwood
    • Greg Smith
    • Dehenna Davison
    • Marcus Fysh
    • Gary Sambrook
    • Pauline Latham
    • William Wragg
    • Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    • Iain Duncan Smith
    • Christopher Chope
    • Craig Tracey
    • Robert Syms
    • Anthony Mangnall
    • Greg Clark
    • Esther McVey
    • Liam Fox
    • David Davis
    • Mark Jenkinson
    • Mark Harper
    • Darren Henry
    • Steve Brine
    • Craig Mackinlay
    • Simon Fell
    • Andrew Bowie
    • David Warburton
    • Siobhan Baillie
    • David Jones
    • Tom Randall
    • Ben Spencer
    • Andrew Rosindell
    • Charles Walker
    • Douglas Ross
    • Karl McCartney
    • Anne Marie Morris
    • Johnny Mercer
    • Tom Tugendhat
    • Richard Fuller
    • Giles Watling
    • Desmond Swayne
    • Andrew Bridgen
    • Andrew Lewer
    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1469257084285997057?s=20

    These brave crusaders for individual liberties will be cheering the Patel Bill though won't they?
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    Calm yourself.
    Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.

    But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.

    So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.

    Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
    Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.

    If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.

    This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.

    Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I'm meant to be singing in a carol concert at our local church in a week's time, raising money to help fund a refugee family to make their home in our neighbourhood. I wonder where this concert sits in the culture war, and more importantly whether it's actually going to happen. The mulled wine and mince pies for afterwards have already fallen victim to cancel culture.
    Definitely the Wrong Sort of carol.

    I do hope they have a whipround if it is cancelled.
    Actually, if it is cancelled PM me with the details. That's far more important than the carols.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,664
    kinabalu said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I did one of those for the 1st time last week. Very easy! I'd be happy enough to add it to my morning routine.
    If everyone did that there would be 69 million plastic trays, testing sticks and bags and vials and whatnot in the UK alone. All on the way to landfill.
  • Off-thread - France new poll BVA for Orange/RTL
    (fieldwork 6 to 8 December - changes from mid-November)

    Macron 24 (-2)
    Pecresse 17 (+8!)
    Le Pen 16 (-2)
    Zemmour 13 (-2)
    Melenchon 9 (+1,5)
    Jadot 7 (-1)
    Hidalgo 5 (=)
    all others combined 9

    Total left of Macron 26.5
    Total right of Macron 49.5

    Yesterday's big news was Hidalgo's deperate attempt tot revive her campaign by asking for a left-wing primary. Jadot and Melenchon said no, as well as several smaller candidates.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
    Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.

    If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.

    This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.

    Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
    Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.

    Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    HYUFD said:

    Is there any evidence Boris himself attended one of these parties? No. So it is incorrect to say there was a clear breach of lockdown rules by Johnson even if some of the No 10 staff who attended these parties did breach them. Hence Stratton went and hence Jack Doyle, No 10's press chief, will also likely be following her out the door soon

    Very probably, since Boris Johnson has declared his full confidence in communications chief Jack Doyle, after it emerged that he had spoken at last year's event - and that’s normally terminal.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    edited December 2021
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious gathering.
    Not sure your point makes sense.
    You are saying one risky activity takes precedence over another. Because Christmas.
  • dixiedean said:


    HYUFD said:

    Confirmed list of Tory rebels who will vote against the Plan B measures next week, thus requiring Boris to have Labour votes to get them through.

    • Steve Baker
    • Ben Bradley
    • Brendan Clarke-Smith
    • Graham Brady
    • Philip Davies
    • Richard Drax
    • Simon Jupp
    • Stephen McPartland
    • John Redwood
    • Greg Smith
    • Dehenna Davison
    • Marcus Fysh
    • Gary Sambrook
    • Pauline Latham
    • William Wragg
    • Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    • Iain Duncan Smith
    • Christopher Chope
    • Craig Tracey
    • Robert Syms
    • Anthony Mangnall
    • Greg Clark
    • Esther McVey
    • Liam Fox
    • David Davis
    • Mark Jenkinson
    • Mark Harper
    • Darren Henry
    • Steve Brine
    • Craig Mackinlay
    • Simon Fell
    • Andrew Bowie
    • David Warburton
    • Siobhan Baillie
    • David Jones
    • Tom Randall
    • Ben Spencer
    • Andrew Rosindell
    • Charles Walker
    • Douglas Ross
    • Karl McCartney
    • Anne Marie Morris
    • Johnny Mercer
    • Tom Tugendhat
    • Richard Fuller
    • Giles Watling
    • Desmond Swayne
    • Andrew Bridgen
    • Andrew Lewer
    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1469257084285997057?s=20

    These brave crusaders for individual liberties will be cheering the Patel Bill though won't they?
    David Davis won't be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094
    Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.

    OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,461

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    Calm yourself.
    Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.

    But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.

    So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.

    Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
    Why hasn't SA locked down ?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 7,664
    HYUFD said:

    Confirmed list of Tory rebels who will vote against the Plan B measures next week, thus requiring Boris to have Labour votes to get them through.

    • Steve Baker
    • Ben Bradley
    • Brendan Clarke-Smith
    • Graham Brady
    • Philip Davies
    • Richard Drax
    • Simon Jupp
    • Stephen McPartland
    • John Redwood
    • Greg Smith
    • Dehenna Davison
    • Marcus Fysh
    • Gary Sambrook
    • Pauline Latham
    • William Wragg
    • Geoffrey Clifton-Brown
    • Iain Duncan Smith
    • Christopher Chope
    • Craig Tracey
    • Robert Syms
    • Anthony Mangnall
    • Greg Clark
    • Esther McVey
    • Liam Fox
    • David Davis
    • Mark Jenkinson
    • Mark Harper
    • Darren Henry
    • Steve Brine
    • Craig Mackinlay
    • Simon Fell
    • Andrew Bowie
    • David Warburton
    • Siobhan Baillie
    • David Jones
    • Tom Randall
    • Ben Spencer
    • Andrew Rosindell
    • Charles Walker
    • Douglas Ross
    • Karl McCartney
    • Anne Marie Morris
    • Johnny Mercer
    • Tom Tugendhat
    • Richard Fuller
    • Giles Watling
    • Desmond Swayne
    • Andrew Bridgen
    • Andrew Lewer
    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1469257084285997057?s=20

    50. That's good. The more the better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    My double vaccinated ass strongly suspects I caught it at a religious service.
    Not sure your point makes sense.
    I already said cases were irrelevant wherever you caught it.

    Note you are not in hospital or dead
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,975
    Cicero said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy of we conservatives in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    Shropshire may be Stalingrad for Boris but there is still two and a half years of defeat and retreat, so if HYFUD is already chewing the carpet today, what's he going to be like at the locals next year?
    You can back Boris to go this year at 21/1 at Coral. But retreating from Moscow takes as long as getting there.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
    Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.

    If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.

    This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.

    Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
    Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.

    Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
    Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    Leon said:

    Who cares about the bloody wallpaper or the cheese and wine parties.

    OMICRON THE EATER OF NARRATIVES is here to devour these pathetic agendas. Boris is going nowhere because in about 3 weeks we will be huddled under Hungerford Bridge gnawing on raw weasels, and no one will give a tiny tiny fuck

    Rats. Weasels is the menu under that bridge at Lechlade.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,875
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
    Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.

    If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.

    This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.

    Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
    Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.

    Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
    Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.

    Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.

    You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
  • Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    People in Wales are being asked to take a lateral flow test before they go out - in an attempt to help protect others against Covid.

    The Welsh government is asking everyone to use the tests before Christmas shopping, going to parties or visiting others.

    I did one of those for the 1st time last week. Very easy! I'd be happy enough to add it to my morning routine.
    If everyone did that there would be 69 million plastic trays, testing sticks and bags and vials and whatnot in the UK alone. All on the way to landfill.
    I would lower the tone by asking how you stop a "gag" reflex so I won't mention it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 15,094

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    The clinical director Jason Leitch pointed out the attack rate of Omicron was that if 100 people were in the room and there was a single case, at least 50 people would get it.

    If this is the level of transmission, no lockdown etc will stop it.

    If that is true I don’t see how they can do anything BUT lock us all down very hard. Every office, shop, pub, cafe, house party, dinner party, church service, mosque prayer, concert, is a superspreader

    So why haven’t they gone straight to Hard Lockdown?

    1. They fear the terrible economic and social damage before Xmas and they are praying for a miracle on “mildness”

    2. They now accept lockdowns aren’t enough. It’s here and it will hit us all

    Calm yourself.
    Can we all take a step back from the repeated "Leon is hysterical" stuff. Based on the reported figures we are in deep shit. That isn't me trying to justify or even welcome another lockdown (as suggested on the last thread) - we do not want that.

    But it is what it is, and in the harsh light of day we're facing a meltdown in the NHS. If we do get this Tsunami of cases it doesn't matter that Omicron is no worse than or even milder than Delta - the sheer numbers infected skyrockets hospitalisation or death.

    So what do we do? I think I agree with the comments that a lockdown isn't going to contain it - not that we can realistically hope to implement one even if wanted.

    Either way, I am off to that London tomorrow. Drink and party. Whilst we still can.
    They do the “Leon is hysterical” stuff because they are scared - seriously - and don’t want to confront the likely truth.

    Me, I’m a flinty eyed alpha male and I look Death in the eye and I shrug and say Me ne frego

    Apart from the times when I am bored or drunk and I lurch into absurd hyperbole for my own amusement, of course
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 17,281
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    That's a keeper for Plan C time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that we may be facing "a potential tsunami of infections", citing a sharp rise in Scotland's coronavirus infections.

    In her weekly press conference today, Ms Sturgeon said: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "To be blunt, because of the much greater and faster transmissibility of this new variant, we may be facing, indeed we may be starting to experience, a potential tsunami of infections."

    "It underlines our fear that a new wave may indeed be starting,” Ms Sturgeon added. She continued: "The fact is, we do face a renewed and very severe challenge in the face of the new omicron variant.

    "Omicron is going to very quickly overtake delta as the common strain in Scotland... as early as the very beginning of next week," she added.

    I would take this seriously if she had suggested cancelling Christmas church services.
    On no grounds whatsoever should Christmas church services be cancelled unless pubs, restaurants, nightclubs, cinemas, theatres and most shops are also shut over the Christmas holiday period until the New Year too.

    However we should avoid that, our last resort should be vaxports for physical attendance at all the above now, not another lockdown
    Lots of people singing all together is not found in the other venues. So church services have an additional hazard over abd above the other places.
    It is found in theatres and nightclubs etc. And the key point of Christmas is religious for the likes of me so it would be an outrageous denial of liberty for the double vaccinated like me to be denied attendance at churches on the most important Christian festival of the Year.

    We would fight it all the way and rightly so
    One person speaking on stage is not the same as sitting where everyone is singing. That is a huge difference. And you are claiming a sectarian right to engage in a known disease-spreading activity.
    You are the leftwing, secular enemy in the culture war.

    You singled out churches because of your ideological agenda. Most of us have been double vaccinated now and given their older demographic most church attendees and church choirs will have had their boosters too.

    We will not give in to you, we will fight you all the way!
    I didn't say C of E did I?

    I'd say exactly the same thing about a Secular Society singsong or a Plymouth Brethren conventicle as your ideologically chosen sect with its political agenda. Or a performance of Oh what a lovely war.

    You have an ideological leftwing agenda to shut down Christmas, again.

    Most church attendees by Christmas day will have been double vaccinated and had their boosters, denial of church attendance and choirs and carols would be denial of religious freedom and a secular declaration of cultural war on the religious.


    I didn'ty say anything about carols or religion. I was talking about spreading disease. If you can't have a religious service withoout spreading disease, you really need to look again at your plans.
    Cases are irrelevant if you have had your boosters and been double jabbed.

    If cases are all you care about then go full lockdown this Christmas and destroy the economy too.

    This is now a matter of pure ideology and liberty not science.

    Secular leftwingers like you who want to shut down religious services and private businesses and hugely expand state power again and conservatives like me and libertarians who want to preserve religious freedom and keep our economy open! It is now just the next stage in the culture wars.
    Me, a leftwinger? I suppose it must seem like that from your perspecvtive.

    Have you not been paying attention? Hospitalization numbers follow cases. And therefore case numbers matter, enormously.
    Nope, for those double vaccinated and who have had their boosters the hospitalisation rate is near zero.

    Not low enough to keep the NHS clear.

    You need to have a sense of social responsibility.
    Yes enough to keep the NHS clear once most of us have had our boosters.

    It is not about social responsibility, it is about your leftwing, statist agenda of control
  • HYUFD said:



    There has been no witness evidence Boris attended any of these parties

    This is not true. Several newspapers have quoted sources who were at the party on the 27th November, who saw Boris, and were able to provide direct quotes from his speech.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 93,284
    edited December 2021

    HYUFD said:



    There has been no witness evidence Boris attended any of these parties

    This is not true. Several newspapers have quoted sources who were at the party on the 27th November, who saw Boris, and were able to provide direct quotes from his speech.
    London was not in lockdown and not in Tier 3 and not in Tier 4 on November 27th
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,321
    Tory MP: “if I was him looking in the mirror, I’d be saying ‘surely I can do this better?’”
  • Lib Dems really ought to be massive odds-on favourites for NS. Even at the best of times governments don't win by-elections in general, this is not the best of times for the government by any means.

    What hurts with this story is how relatable it is. A lot of stories are a bit weird, wallpaper and other bollocks doesn't mean anything to anyone. But Christmas was screwed for everyone last year, this year people are nervous about the same . . . this is a kick in the balls for everyone who followed the rules last year and quite frankly the government deserves to be kicked back for it.

    Hopefully the Lib Dems win a landslide in NS next week. If I was there I'd be voting yellow, no questions about it. This simply isn't good enough.
This discussion has been closed.