Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?
I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?
Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!
It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.
Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
Waiting list for antivaxxers.
"Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.
Don't understand it.
If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.
If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?
Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
I'm baffled why there aren't Conservative politicians advocating this.
After all the number of Conservative voters who are anti-vaxxers must be miniscule.
Then again I never understood why Conservative politicians preferred locking down the country to restricting international travel.
Charles Walker is unvaccinated AFAIK. Lost all respect for him as a lockdown sceptic when I found that out.
Saw him say its because he doesn't like needles instead of being against vaccines, and that he'd get a vaccine if it was a nasal spray.
So he's saying he would rather risk death than have someone stick a tiny needle into his upper arm ?
Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?
I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?
Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!
It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.
Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
Waiting list for antivaxxers.
"Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.
Don't understand it.
If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.
If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?
Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
I'm baffled why there aren't Conservative politicians advocating this.
After all the number of Conservative voters who are anti-vaxxers must be miniscule.
Then again I never understood why Conservative politicians preferred locking down the country to restricting international travel.
Charles Walker is unvaccinated AFAIK. Lost all respect for him as a lockdown sceptic when I found that out.
Saw him say its because he doesn't like needles instead of being against vaccines, and that he'd get a vaccine if it was a nasal spray.
So he's saying he would rather risk death than have someone stick a tiny needle into his upper arm ?
A real leader of the country there.
An extra irony being that he said that all restrictions should be lifted once the vulnerable are vaccinated but wont help that along by getting vaccinated as someone in a vulnerable category.
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
For anyone still doubting the impact of the party story.
Worth bearing in mind that around 600,000 people have died from all causes since last Christmas. A very significant number of the surviving relatives - perhaps even a majority - may well have made a decision not to see those who are now dead last Christmas as they were abiding by the Government's guidance and the law. I don't think it is illogical to consider that most of those people will now be extremely pissed off with Mr Johnson and his band of happy party goers. They gave up their last Christmas with Mum, Dad or Grandparents and now see that the people making and enforcing the rules couldn't give a rat's arse about them.
Obviously I was already pretty disgusted with Johnson so it doesn't change my vote. I would suspect - and hope - many others will now be seriously reconsidering giving him, or his party for as long as he leads them, any kind of support.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
For anyone still doubting the impact of the party story.
Worth bearing in mind that around 600,000 people have died from all causes since last Christmas. A very significant number of the surviving relatives - perhaps even a majority - may well have made a decision not to see those who are now dead last Christmas as they were abiding by the Government's guidance and the law. I don't think it is illogical to consider that most of those people will now be extremely pissed off with Mr Johnson and his band of happy party goers. They gave up their last Christmas with Mum, Dad or Grandparents and now see that the people making and enforcing the rules couldn't give a rat's arse about them.
Obviously I was already pretty disgusted with Johnson so it doesn't change my vote. I would suspect - and hope - many others will now be seriously reconsidering giving him, or his party for as long as he leads them, any kind of support.
To be fair though the guidance to minimise contact last Christmas was, for many millions, a good idea with vaccination having begun - a free for all then would have led to extra deaths.
The lesson to be learnt is to make decisions based upon your own circumstances.
That may or may not be in accordance with official instructions but so what if it isn't because those at the top will be doing what they want to in any case.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
People were proposing that when I was a child in the 90s. If it had been implemented then it would already be upto ~40 by now.
But considering how piss easy it is to buy cannabis or cocaine or anything else you want, all you'd be doing is sending cigarettes into the hands of dealers instead of businesses.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
People were proposing that when I was a child in the 90s. If it had been implemented then it would already be upto ~40 by now.
But considering how piss easy it is to buy cannabis or cocaine or anything else you want, all you'd be doing is sending cigarettes into the hands of dealers instead of businesses.
Prohibition doesn't work.
Listening to former members of the nudge unit, that was the thinking in terms of e-cigs. The thinking was nudge people on to them, and legislate to ensure lower amounts of nicotine etc.
The thing they missed was that manufacturers would make them fruity and so people suck on them all day.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
It was the British Journalism Awards last night, any pearl clutchers about necessity to be mask wearing and theatre of them appearing to be always wearing them you see from journalists in days to come, check out of the photos from the award ceremony.
THE SUN SAYS Partygate is a failure of leadership that cannot and must not continue
Boris is a goner. Just like Warner.
The Sun just hates vaxports, most voters don't
No but they do hate hypocrisy and lies. Whether you are for or against any of the restrictions, the sight of those in power making rules that blight the lives of millions whilst they ignore those same rules themselves should make you sick. It does any normal decent people - and plenty of us who are abnormal and indecent as well. Even we think Johnson is beyond the pale.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
THE SUN SAYS Partygate is a failure of leadership that cannot and must not continue
Boris is a goner. Just like Warner.
The Sun just hates vaxports, most voters don't
No but they do hate hypocrisy and lies. Whether you are for or against any of the restrictions, the sight of those in power making rules that blight the lives of millions whilst they ignore those same rules themselves should make you sick. It does any normal decent people - and plenty of us who are abnormal and indecent as well. Even we think Johnson is beyond the pale.
I'm not sure this is the fatal blow to BJ (he is a master of begging for and getting forgiveness), his fate rests in the hands of backbenchers who have no clear alternative esp as the grandees are tainted by the EU/May years in the eyes of many MPs. This will limp on into Spring is my sense - but I'm more than happy to be be proved wrong.
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
They are called every time using tech/3rd umpire in T20s etc now aren't they?
THE SUN SAYS Partygate is a failure of leadership that cannot and must not continue
Boris is a goner. Just like Warner.
The Sun just hates vaxports, most voters don't
If Boris has lost the Telegraph, Sun and Mail, that is lets say far from ideal.
If Starmer is not 10 points + ahead in the polls by the weekend and the Tories hold North Shropshire next week Boris can tell those papers to sod off.
None of them would endorse Starmer anyway or they would lose half their Leaver dominated readership to the likes of the Express. The most they could go is RefUK but then they lose most of their influence.
Of those papers which endorsed the Tories in 2019 only the Times could risk endorsing Starmer or Davey and not lose half its readers in the process
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
They are called every time using tech/3rd umpire in T20s etc now aren't they?
Just not Tests unless its a wicket?
I've seen them checked in Tests recently, but it's the third umpire who does it.
I think the Hawkeye people have been working on something that checks it automatically for a while, though I don't know how that's going.
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
They are called every time using tech/3rd umpire in T20s etc now aren't they?
Just not Tests unless its a wicket?
I've seen them checked in Tests recently, but it's the third umpire who does it.
I think the Hawkeye people have been working on something that checks it automatically for a while, though I don't know how that's going.
A while...what are they playing at...Its trivial, given they have many high speed cameras focused on that area and because of Hawkeye DRS system they have the pitch location already perfectly calibrated in their system.
I could code it in a few days. There are numerous academic papers that have addressed this kind of problem and shown very good results, without even having the multi-camera view with perfect calibration and knowing you won't have to handle hidden view.
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
They are called every time using tech/3rd umpire in T20s etc now aren't they?
Just not Tests unless its a wicket?
I've seen them checked in Tests recently, but it's the third umpire who does it.
I think the Hawkeye people have been working on something that checks it automatically for a while, though I don't know how that's going.
A while...what are they playing at...Its trivial, given they have many high speed cameras focused on that area and because of Hawkeye DRS system they have the pitch location already perfectly calibrated in their system.
I could code it in a few days. There are numerous academic papers that have addressed this kind of problem and shown very good results, without even having the multi-camera view with perfect calibration and knowing you won't have to handle hidden view.
I'm guessing the issue is speed?
It takes about a minute to get DRS processed. You're going to want the No Ball called within seconds not minutes.
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
They are called every time using tech/3rd umpire in T20s etc now aren't they?
Just not Tests unless its a wicket?
I've seen them checked in Tests recently, but it's the third umpire who does it.
I think the Hawkeye people have been working on something that checks it automatically for a while, though I don't know how that's going.
A while...what are they playing at...Its trivial, given they have many high speed cameras focused on that area and because of Hawkeye DRS system they have the pitch location already perfectly calibrated in their system.
I could code it in a few days. There are numerous academic papers that have addressed this kind of problem and shown very good results, without even having the multi-camera view with perfect calibration and knowing you won't have to handle hidden view.
I'm guessing the issue is speed?
It takes about a minute to get DRS processed. You're going to want the No Ball called within seconds not minutes.
Actually no. The slow speed of DRS is because they are not only having to track the ball, then make a precise prediction of where the ball would have travelled given it was obstructed part of the way through its flight. Then determining where all of that is in relation to stumps etc.
A No-Ball literally just need to establish if the foot was behind the line or not. There are already real-time tracking system for accurate 3d tracking of human motion from video, which are able to cope with more complex schemes than focusing on a very small area of a pitch, in which you have an unobstructed view, precise calibration and a very specific aim. You literally just need to establish foot location in a few frames, where it was in 3d space, and you know from all your calibration if that was behind or not. You aren't trying to do any prediction into the future, trying to work out unseen action, etc.
Hawkeye, themselves have already demonstrated they can do real-time for tennis to determine if the ball was in or not.
Also really bad bowling to bowl 3 no balls prior to missing out on a wicket
Yes but when the on field umpires used to call no-balls it gave the bowler an immediate indication he was doing something wrong and he would usually correct it on the next ball. So there probably wouldn't have been more than one no-ball from Stokes in that over. I don't know why the on field umpires can't call no balls like they always used to do for about 140 years.
Meanwhile, a Conservative Party spokesperson has confirmed four of its staff - who had been seconded to the party's London mayoral campaign - were disciplined following an unauthorised social gathering in one of the party's offices on 14 December last year.
The BBC has also been told that last year several Downing Street staff members attended a gathering with Carrie Johnson in the flat where the prime minister and his wife live after former aides Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain had left No 10.
A source said music was blaring and could be heard elsewhere in the building.
The party is understood to have taken place on 13 November last year, when England was in lockdown, with people barred from meeting indoors or in private gardens.
But several of those who were said to have been there have told the BBC the claims are not true and Mrs Johnson's spokeswoman denied there was party on 13 November.
Stokes first 3 balls of that over were no balls before the wicket taking one but 3rd Umpires not calling them. Hmmmmmm, if I was in to conspiracy theories I'd say the Aussie umpires did that on purpose!
There is no reason why no-balls can't be called automatically using tech.
They are called every time using tech/3rd umpire in T20s etc now aren't they?
Just not Tests unless its a wicket?
Yes, at the T20, the 3rd ump calls no-balls in close to real time. Assume he has a TV replay or something similar to the tennis ‘beep’ system.
The tech was down, but the on-field umpires could have been informed and gone back to calling no balls themselves like they always used to do until relatively recently.
ConHome comments are well worth a browse! A handful of HYs under siege from pretty much everybody else.
Just because Johnson got sacked twice for lying, cheated on his first wife with his second wife, cheated on his second wife with Jennifer Arcuri (with the taxpayer footing the bill) and then with his future third wife, had the police turn up for domestic abuse concerns AND was found guilty by the Supreme Court, doesn’t mean that he's a man who can’t be trusted.
The tabloid and other Tory press front pages are absolutely terrible for the government today, and nearly all of them are also tied up with the Covid measures too.
Quite apart from the Tory party, there's also surely going to be pressure on the government from parts of the scientific establishment now , too, because people like Chris Whitty, and many others behind the scenes, are going to be furious that he's blunting and confusing their messaging.
As i predicted, the Swedish Greens have been punished by resigning from the coalition government: now under the 4% threshold (along with the Liberals).
Magdalena Andersson (S), our first woman PM, gives her party a big boost, to 29% (+4).
All other changes in VI too small to be statistically reliable.
Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.
My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
🙁. I can appreciate how this could bring back bad memories with a sense of injustice.
Where do you stand on compulsory Covid vaccination ahead of this debate kicking off Foxy? Where should libdems stand on it?
I am against it, apart from reasonable occupational requirements like my own.
I think an NI surcharge, rebated to those vaccinated is reasonable though. I would also allow those with documented proof of infection to be excluded, as it does seem to give similar immunity, or at least seemed to before omicron.
Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.
My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
🙁. I can appreciate how this could bring back bad memories with a sense of injustice.
Where do you stand on compulsory Covid vaccination ahead of this debate kicking off Foxy? Where should libdems stand on it?
I am against it, apart from reasonable occupational requirements like my own.
I think an NI surcharge, rebated to those vaccinated is reasonable though. I would also allow those with documented proof of infection to be excluded, as it does seem to give similar immunity, or at least seemed to before omicron.
I wouldn't leave an exclusion for prior infection: it would make the system more complex, and encourage anti-vaxxers to get Covid rather than get jabbed - with all the problems that would cause. It's also unclear whether prior infection does offer similar immunity.
The message needs to be simple: Get jabbed, people.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
WTF is it a "desperate bid" ? Such nannying crap . Presumably smoking is banned in indoor areas in NZ so smokers are only endangering their own health. What a crap world we live in with this nannying culture and government can solve everything rubbish (as we see with our ridiculous plan B )
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Given this variant is even less serious than the other one it is stupid we are imposing restrictions. i honesty think the population is made up of cowardly sheep if they support this crap
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Given this variant is even less serious than the other one it is stupid we are imposing restrictions. i honesty think the population is made up of cowardly sheep if they support this crap
"Omicron is milder" seems to have become the new "COVID is no worse than flu".
I, for one, welcome our inevitable tracking, monitoring, and control by means of the vaccine passport. What does returning to normal mean if not giving the state the power to immediately socially and occupationally ostracise us if we decide not to do as commanded?
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Given this variant is even less serious than the other one it is stupid we are imposing restrictions. i honesty think the population is made up of cowardly sheep if they support this crap
"Omicron is milder" seems to have become the new "COVID is no worse than flu".
I, for one, welcome our inevitable tracking, monitoring, and control by means of the vaccine passport. What does returning to normal mean if not giving the state the power to immediately socially and occupationally ostracise us if we decide not to do as commanded?
...
Get that authoritarian clown out of Number 10.
My worry is anyone following will be more authoritarian .
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
What is your view on banning alcohol or at least alcohol over a certain level? Surely, the impact is greater, particularly when it comes to societal effects (drink driving crashes, crimes committed where alcohol has played a part etc)
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
What is your view on banning alcohol or at least alcohol over a certain level? Surely, the impact is greater, particularly when it comes to societal effects (drink driving crashes, crimes committed where alcohol has played a part etc)
I am against banning alcohol, or gambling, both of which do significant societal harm.
Tobacco is universally harmful, alcohol and gambling in moderation are positive parts of life.
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Given this variant is even less serious than the other one it is stupid we are imposing restrictions. i honesty think the population is made up of cowardly sheep if they support this crap
"Omicron is milder" seems to have become the new "COVID is no worse than flu".
Well its true isn't it?
We don't know yet is the honest answer. We have only identified it 2 weeks ago.
I, for one, welcome our inevitable tracking, monitoring, and control by means of the vaccine passport. What does returning to normal mean if not giving the state the power to immediately socially and occupationally ostracise us if we decide not to do as commanded?
...
Get that authoritarian clown out of Number 10.
There are hordes of stupid, dumb and naive people who would actually walk straight in to this type of state control. They think they've got nothing to hide, and will be led like lemmings in to a totalitarian nightmare.
However, some perspective is needed. The clown we have in No.10 is probably the least authoritarian of all the options. It is no accident that the authoritarian measures bought forward all have get out clauses - IE the rules on vaccine passports allow for you to order a paper certificate without having an app; and if you don't want to get vaccinated, you can administer a self reported negative LFT test. If you think you have a health problem, you don't have to wear a mask and no one can question you, and so on.
On balance, we should be grateful for what we have got. You can see how the 'progressives' around the world have seized on Covid to introduce genuine authoritarian measures, and benefit from popular support in doing so. You can see this with the SNP in Scotland - it is hard to believe that a labour government under Starmer would be much different.
THE SUN SAYS Partygate is a failure of leadership that cannot and must not continue
Boris is a goner. Just like Warner.
The Sun just hates vaxports, most voters don't
No but they do hate hypocrisy and lies. Whether you are for or against any of the restrictions, the sight of those in power making rules that blight the lives of millions whilst they ignore those same rules themselves should make you sick. It does any normal decent people - and plenty of us who are abnormal and indecent as well. Even we think Johnson is beyond the pale.
I'm not sure this is the fatal blow to BJ (he is a master of begging for and getting forgiveness), his fate rests in the hands of backbenchers who have no clear alternative esp as the grandees are tainted by the EU/May years in the eyes of many MPs. This will limp on into Spring is my sense - but I'm more than happy to be be proved wrong.
That is my feeling as well. There really is no clear alternative. The other main candidates all have negative points against them and, moreover, I’m not sure the 2019 intake will go for a candidate announced by the grandees. Personal view is that BJ will get worried when there is a credible alternative that appeals to Red Wall voters. There is none yet.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Mr. Age, jein. It could be worse but we should not be grateful for this step down an authoritarian road. As mentioned above, it would now be easier for a more statist PM to extend and deepen this barbaric passport bullshit.
I, for one, welcome our inevitable tracking, monitoring, and control by means of the vaccine passport. What does returning to normal mean if not giving the state the power to immediately socially and occupationally ostracise us if we decide not to do as commanded?
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
It has hardly been mentioned in the media. An absolute disgrace creating a second class of citizen. Something you would expect only of a far right party.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
This is the end of meaningful British citizenship. If you have an Irish grandparent you could be effectively banished to Ireland. Presumably Boris could be made stateless as he is eligible for American citizenship. Large parts of the cabinet could presumably be banished, thinking about it. Many of them have some non-British heritage.
The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.
This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Given this variant is even less serious than the other one it is stupid we are imposing restrictions. i honesty think the population is made up of cowardly sheep if they support this crap
"Omicron is milder" seems to have become the new "COVID is no worse than flu".
Well its true isn't it?
Nearly every day about a dozen scientists tell us it's too early to say. Maybe you missed all those statements.
We've got evidence from South Africa that on average people in hospital who are positive for COVID have milder symptoms than was the case in the Delta wave. But we also know that a lot of the people with mild symptoms were admitted for other reasons and just happen to have been found to be positive for COVID.
That could quite plausibly explain it, given that there has been a huge recent rate of increase in infections, which will apply just as much to recent hospital admissions for other conditions, whereas there will be a time lag before that increase produces severe illness requiring hospitalisation specifically for COVID.
The other thing that could explain it, obviously, is that we know there is a higher rate of re-infection (and presumably infection of vaccinated people). If previous infection and vaccination still tend to reduce the severity of Omicron (even if they don't reduce it as much as for Delta), that will reduce the average severity of disease in those infected. Because a higher proportion of those infected have some protection.
We need to see more careful analysis taking into account the possible confounding factors, particularly age and previous immunity. Previous immunity is probably particularly uncertain in South Africa where much of it comes from infection. But after all this time even simple things like the infection fatality rate of COVID are uncertain. We may not really know how severe Omicron is until people start being hospitalised for it in the UK in significant numbers.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
What is your view on banning alcohol or at least alcohol over a certain level? Surely, the impact is greater, particularly when it comes to societal effects (drink driving crashes, crimes committed where alcohol has played a part etc)
I am against banning alcohol, or gambling, both of which do significant societal harm.
Tobacco is universally harmful, alcohol and gambling in moderation are positive parts of life.
But actually both alcohol and gambling have the potential to cause significant harm to others by their nature. How many crimes have been committed by people under the influence? How many people’s lives have been ruined by gambling, which has also impacted their families?
Smoking is very much an issue where the “payment” lies with the individual doing it. Sure, the health service gets hit but then, if that is your argument, unless smoking causes a disproportionate burden relative to other self inflicted conditions (and you can add obesity into that list as well), why not ban them?
I’d also disagree with the idea smoking is universally harmful. Sure, if you are smoking 20 or 40 a day but what about 2-3, which would surely be counted as moderation. For many people, an occasional cigarette can help them de-stress or take a time out.
I think the real reason why banning smoking is deemed as acceptable is the point John Reid identified when he complained about Labour putting up taxes on cigarettes - you’re disproportionately impacting poorer people where smoking is one of the few joys they have in life. Smoking is seen now days as very much a class thing - if you smoke, you will generally be seen as being poor. Alcohol of course isn’t - Heaven forbid the Burgundy is banned.
There is no logical argument to ban one and not the other. It’s merely another expression of the middle class progressives imposing their wishes with the price being paid by poorer people.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
It has hardly been mentioned in the media. An absolute disgrace creating a second class of citizen. Something you would expect only of a far right party.
Yes, and combine it with criminalising protests "likely to annoy", far more authoritarian than vaccine/test passports to access public venues.
I, for one, welcome our inevitable tracking, monitoring, and control by means of the vaccine passport. What does returning to normal mean if not giving the state the power to immediately socially and occupationally ostracise us if we decide not to do as commanded?
...
Get that authoritarian clown out of Number 10.
And replace him with a sober authoritarian ?
So the plot of Stephen Fry's "Making History"?
Go back in time, prevent Hitler, see him replaced by someone just as evil but more competent...
Everyone is bed wetting but Boris is going nowhere and the Tories will win North Shropshire.
I am contemplating a small wager at evens. Postal voters will not have seen yesterday's PMQs.
Good point about postal votes.
Yes and no. It’s true that a chunk are sent straight back, but a lot are held until the last week and nowadays a fair few are brought in by hand to the polling station (although I’d guess this is a little less common in the very rural areas). If you hypothesise not unreasonably that those being filled in and sent back straight away are most likely to be committed rather than floating voters, and then consider that postal voters generally are less likely to be floating voters, the ‘in the bag’ effect of early postal returns is usually overstated.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
It has hardly been mentioned in the media. An absolute disgrace creating a second class of citizen. Something you would expect only of a far right party.
Yes, and combine it with criminalising protests "likely to annoy", far more authoritarian than vaccine/test passports to access public venues.
The online safety legislation is also worth a look.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
I am not a fan of Jacinda Adern but I think this is a great idea. Smoking has no positive effects on society and this is a good way to help prevent people starting in the first place. It is a 50+ year programme to prohibiting smoking completely.
Dr. Foxy, not diminishing the protesting ban/law but vaccine passes can very easily be widened in terms of control, and become long term. They're not a small problem, they're potentially (and, I would argue, probably) the beginning of a much bigger one.
Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B
Telegraph
There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
I would say so.
There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.
I am very low tonight.
Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.
The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.
Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket
The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Given this variant is even less serious than the other one it is stupid we are imposing restrictions. i honesty think the population is made up of cowardly sheep if they support this crap
"Omicron is milder" seems to have become the new "COVID is no worse than flu".
Well its true isn't it?
Nearly every day about a dozen scientists tell us it's too early to say. Maybe you missed all those statements.
We've got evidence from South Africa that on average people in hospital who are positive for COVID have milder symptoms than was the case in the Delta wave. But we also know that a lot of the people with mild symptoms were admitted for other reasons and just happen to have been found to be positive for COVID.
That could quite plausibly explain it, given that there has been a huge recent rate of increase in infections, which will apply just as much to recent hospital admissions for other conditions, whereas there will be a time lag before that increase produces severe illness requiring hospitalisation specifically for COVID.
The other thing that could explain it, obviously, is that we know there is a higher rate of re-infection (and presumably infection of vaccinated people). If previous infection and vaccination still tend to reduce the severity of Omicron (even if they don't reduce it as much as for Delta), that will reduce the average severity of disease in those infected. Because a higher proportion of those infected have some protection.
We need to see more careful analysis taking into account the possible confounding factors, particularly age and previous immunity. Previous immunity is probably particularly uncertain in South Africa where much of it comes from infection. But after all this time even simple things like the infection fatality rate of COVID are uncertain. We may not really know how severe Omicron is until people start being hospitalised for it in the UK in significant numbers.
South Africa is also a really poor analogue for the UK. It has a younger population (28 years median compared to 41), which would reduce severity. Countering that, South Africa has a much higher rate of immunodeficiency disease (i.e. AIDS) - 19.1% of adults, compared to around 0.2% in the UK.
We really have to wait to see what happens in our own population, or a very similar country.
Dr. Foxy, not diminishing the protesting ban/law but vaccine passes can very easily be widened in terms of control, and become long term. They're not a small problem, they're potentially (and, I would argue, probably) the beginning of a much bigger one.
I get more agitated by actual laws being passed without serious debate than theoretical laws of the future.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
This is the end of meaningful British citizenship. If you have an Irish grandparent you could be effectively banished to Ireland. Presumably Boris could be made stateless as he is eligible for American citizenship. Large parts of the cabinet could presumably be banished, thinking about it. Many of them have some non-British heritage.
The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.
This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)
It is utterly disgusting, effectively creating second class citizens with a very significant racial component to it. Although it's worth pointing out that it simply extends what is already happening. As for the stuff on protesting. This government is the absolute worst.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
It has hardly been mentioned in the media. An absolute disgrace creating a second class of citizen. Something you would expect only of a far right party.
Yes, and combine it with criminalising protests "likely to annoy", far more authoritarian than vaccine/test passports to access public venues.
I was strongly against vaccine passports at the time when youngsters did not have a chance to have the vaccine anyway. I would still be against either extending it to pubs and restaurants as many countries have done, or taking out the test negative option.
But with a free and quick test, or a free and quick vaccination as easy (and useful and safe) options, I fail to see the big issue with them for large events. I have used the NHS Covid Pass for entry at least a dozen times to various places, it is very simple and quick.
How "libertarians" are throwing their toys out of their prams about that, yet can't get worked up about 10% of us being reduced to second class temporary citizens, or the executive taking further significant judicial powers into their hands, I do not understand.
I wasn't going to bother to post any comments on this because I don't think many people here are interested in scientific information, but in case anyone does look at it I'll just say that for the comparison between the response of double-dosed and boosted participants, the double-dosed had received their second dose 6 months ago, so there had been time for the effect to wane.
Possibly when people say a booster produces a similar response against Omicron as two doses produces against Delta, they mean "two doses completed 6 months ago".
I reckon a Tory hold in N Shrops is (11/10 on william hill) is a bargain... I know the LDs will push hard but Labour's vote might just hold up, as although handing victory to the LDs may seem fun I cant see Labour's vote moving en masse. Its an interesting one for sure and I have 4 bets on the blues.....
Everyone is bed wetting but Boris is going nowhere and the Tories will win North Shropshire.
I am contemplating a small wager at evens. Postal voters will not have seen yesterday's PMQs.
Good point about postal votes.
Yes and no. It’s true that a chunk are sent straight back, but a lot are held until the last week and nowadays a fair few are brought in by hand to the polling station (although I’d guess this is a little less common in the very rural areas). If you hypothesise not unreasonably that those being filled in and sent back straight away are most likely to be committed rather than floating voters, and then consider that postal voters generally are less likely to be floating voters, the ‘in the bag’ effect of early postal returns is usually overstated.
Yes, but as I pointed out last night, this is "donkey with a blue rosette" territory, and has a strong Labour vote of around 8% less than national polling, that held up at 22% even at Corbyns biggest defeat. I think Tories will scrape home, and are value on current odds.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Following on from the proposals earlier in the week that could criminalise any public protest in any shared public place, now this. I've never been more repelled by a government and thought it more imperative for it to be gone, now.
Mr. Above, because they'll get extended. In Australia, there's even an app so the government can see where you are whenever they like.
I agree with you on the citizenship (proposed) law. It's entirely possible to believe the Government is shit in multiple ways at the same time.
That comes down to the main parties having responsible people with conviction as MPs, so the public can trust them to not let the executive power grab. Nowadays, they are more likely to field people who deserve conviction rather than have it.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
Mr. Above, a large portion of the blame for that lies with the media, who subject politicians to incredible (and typically hostile) scrutiny while barely looking at the laws they seek to enact, which can last for decades or even centuries.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
I am not a fan of Jacinda Adern but I think this is a great idea. Smoking has no positive effects on society and this is a good way to help prevent people starting in the first place. It is a 50+ year programme to prohibiting smoking completely.
In the same way that cannabis and cocaine are prohibited entirely? There's no problems with them, are there?
I don't smoke and don't take illegal drugs, but prohibition is a failure that doesn't work. Chicago showed that with alcohol, the west has shown that with illegal drugs, now why would we possibly think doing the same with tobacco would work this time?
Smoking would still exist, just tobacco would be vended through drug dealers instead of licensed, regulated and taxed retailers.
Don't we (traditionally) need a 'dark horse' in the Conservatives to bring down the PM so they can then vote someone else who wasn't treacherous in? Who could that be this time? Or has Boris debased himself so badly that the dark horse isn't needed?
Isn't it traditionally a stalking horse rather than a dark horse?
Wasn't Sir Anthony Meyer a stalking dark horse ?
For some reason this is making me think of a nodding donkey.
It was the traitors who got rid of Maggie despite owing their seats to her who condemned the party to losing 3 out of 4 of the following general elections and it will be the traitors trying to get rid of Boris despite owing their seats to him who will condemn the party to years of opposition too.
Such treachery will neither be forgiven nor forgotten by me or many others if it succeeds
I am sure the next PM will be devastated to lose your support. Although, you will of course flip back int line after a day or two.
It took the party 15 years to recover from the treacherous assassination of Maggie, it would take the party just as long to recover from the treacherous assassination of Boris.
Look at Labour too, 14 years after it forced Blair out it has still not won a general election since
Morning all! I'm not going read back over all the overnights but have to pull this gem out:
It took the party 15 years to recover from the treacherous assassination of Maggie
Really? So when John Major received the Highest Vote Ever a year and a half later that was proof that the party had collapsed?
HYUFD can't even get it right when he's talking about his own party.
Comments
Now 118,000 cases and 1,213 deaths, with hours to go
Could be a big, troubling day
A real leader of the country there.
Its ironic the people who don't believe in Darwin are the ones escorting themselves out of the voting and gene pool.
Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
Worth bearing in mind that around 600,000 people have died from all causes since last Christmas. A very significant number of the surviving relatives - perhaps even a majority - may well have made a decision not to see those who are now dead last Christmas as they were abiding by the Government's guidance and the law. I don't think it is illogical to consider that most of those people will now be extremely pissed off with Mr Johnson and his band of happy party goers. They gave up their last Christmas with Mum, Dad or Grandparents and now see that the people making and enforcing the rules couldn't give a rat's arse about them.
Obviously I was already pretty disgusted with Johnson so it doesn't change my vote. I would suspect - and hope - many others will now be seriously reconsidering giving him, or his party for as long as he leads them, any kind of support.
Boris is a goner. Just like Warner.
FFS Stokes.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10290201/New-Zealand-BANS-smoking-Young-people-NEVER-buy-cigarettes-nation-goes-smoke-free.html
The lesson to be learnt is to make decisions based upon your own circumstances.
That may or may not be in accordance with official instructions but so what if it isn't because those at the top will be doing what they want to in any case.
But considering how piss easy it is to buy cannabis or cocaine or anything else you want, all you'd be doing is sending cigarettes into the hands of dealers instead of businesses.
Prohibition doesn't work.
The thing they missed was that manufacturers would make them fruity and so people suck on them all day.
necessity to be mask wearing and theatre of them appearing to be always wearing them you see from journalists in days to come, check out of the photos from the award ceremony.
Oh, and I learned long ago to never celebrate a wicket until it's confirmed as not being a no ball!
Just not Tests unless its a wicket?
None of them would endorse Starmer anyway or they would lose half their Leaver dominated readership to the likes of the Express. The most they could go is RefUK but then they lose most of their influence.
Of those papers which endorsed the Tories in 2019 only the Times could risk endorsing Starmer or Davey and not lose half its readers in the process
I think the Hawkeye people have been working on something that checks it automatically for a while, though I don't know how that's going.
I could code it in a few days. There are numerous academic papers that have addressed this kind of problem and shown very good results, without even having the multi-camera view with perfect calibration and knowing you won't have to handle hidden view.
It takes about a minute to get DRS processed. You're going to want the No Ball called within seconds not minutes.
A No-Ball literally just need to establish if the foot was behind the line or not. There are already real-time tracking system for accurate 3d tracking of human motion from video, which are able to cope with more complex schemes than focusing on a very small area of a pitch, in which you have an unobstructed view, precise calibration and a very specific aim. You literally just need to establish foot location in a few frames, where it was in 3d space, and you know from all your calibration if that was behind or not. You aren't trying to do any prediction into the future, trying to work out unseen action, etc.
Hawkeye, themselves have already demonstrated they can do real-time for tennis to determine if the ball was in or not.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59585618
Barnaby Joyce said he believed he had been infected while visiting the UK earlier this week.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59589043
The BBC has also been told that last year several Downing Street staff members attended a gathering with Carrie Johnson in the flat where the prime minister and his wife live after former aides Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain had left No 10.
A source said music was blaring and could be heard elsewhere in the building.
The party is understood to have taken place on 13 November last year, when England was in lockdown, with people barred from meeting indoors or in private gardens.
But several of those who were said to have been there have told the BBC the claims are not true and Mrs Johnson's spokeswoman denied there was party on 13 November.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59588413
Just because Johnson got sacked twice for lying, cheated on his first wife with his second wife, cheated on his second wife with Jennifer Arcuri (with the taxpayer footing the bill) and then with his future third wife, had the police turn up for domestic abuse concerns AND was found guilty by the Supreme Court, doesn’t mean that he's a man who can’t be trusted.
The tabloid and other Tory press front pages are absolutely terrible for the government today, and nearly all of them are also tied up with the Covid measures too.
Quite apart from the Tory party, there's also surely going to be pressure on the government from parts of the scientific establishment now , too, because people like Chris Whitty, and many others behind the scenes, are going to be furious that he's blunting and confusing their messaging.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/09/debacle-over-no-10-christmas-party-threatens-efforts-to-control-pandemic
"Debacle over No 10 Christmas party "threatens efforts to control pandemic"
Magdalena Andersson (S), our first woman PM, gives her party a big boost, to 29% (+4).
All other changes in VI too small to be statistically reliable.
I think an NI surcharge, rebated to those vaccinated is reasonable though. I would also allow those with documented proof of infection to be excluded, as it does seem to give similar immunity, or at least seemed to before omicron.
The message needs to be simple: Get jabbed, people.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.07.21267432v1.full.pdf
I, for one, welcome our inevitable tracking, monitoring, and control by means of the vaccine passport. What does returning to normal mean if not giving the state the power to immediately socially and occupationally ostracise us if we decide not to do as commanded?
...
Get that authoritarian clown out of Number 10.
Tobacco is universally harmful, alcohol and gambling in moderation are positive parts of life.
However, some perspective is needed. The clown we have in No.10 is probably the least authoritarian of all the options. It is no accident that the authoritarian measures bought forward all have get out clauses - IE the rules on vaccine passports allow for you to order a paper certificate without having an app; and if you don't want to get vaccinated, you can administer a self reported negative LFT test. If you think you have a health problem, you don't have to wear a mask and no one can question you, and so on.
On balance, we should be grateful for what we have got. You can see how the 'progressives' around the world have seized on Covid to introduce genuine authoritarian measures, and benefit from popular support in doing so. You can see this with the SNP in Scotland - it is hard to believe that a labour government under Starmer would be much different.
https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1468660602994405385
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation
… Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Mr. Age, jein. It could be worse but we should not be grateful for this step down an authoritarian road. As mentioned above, it would now be easier for a more statist PM to extend and deepen this barbaric passport bullshit.
The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.
This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)
We've got evidence from South Africa that on average people in hospital who are positive for COVID have milder symptoms than was the case in the Delta wave. But we also know that a lot of the people with mild symptoms were admitted for other reasons and just happen to have been found to be positive for COVID.
That could quite plausibly explain it, given that there has been a huge recent rate of increase in infections, which will apply just as much to recent hospital admissions for other conditions, whereas there will be a time lag before that increase produces severe illness requiring hospitalisation specifically for COVID.
The other thing that could explain it, obviously, is that we know there is a higher rate of re-infection (and presumably infection of vaccinated people). If previous infection and vaccination still tend to reduce the severity of Omicron (even if they don't reduce it as much as for Delta), that will reduce the average severity of disease in those infected. Because a higher proportion of those infected have some protection.
We need to see more careful analysis taking into account the possible confounding factors, particularly age and previous immunity. Previous immunity is probably particularly uncertain in South Africa where much of it comes from infection. But after all this time even simple things like the infection fatality rate of COVID are uncertain. We may not really know how severe Omicron is until people start being hospitalised for it in the UK in significant numbers.
Smoking is very much an issue where the “payment” lies with the individual doing it. Sure, the health service gets hit but then, if that is your argument, unless smoking causes a disproportionate burden relative to other self inflicted conditions (and you can add obesity into that list as well), why not ban them?
I’d also disagree with the idea smoking is universally harmful. Sure, if you are smoking 20 or 40 a day but what about 2-3, which would surely be counted as moderation. For many people, an occasional cigarette can help them de-stress or take a time out.
I think the real reason why banning smoking is deemed as acceptable is the point John Reid identified when he complained about Labour putting up taxes on cigarettes - you’re disproportionately impacting poorer people where smoking is one of the few joys they have in life. Smoking is seen now days as very much a class thing - if you smoke, you will generally be seen as being poor. Alcohol of course isn’t - Heaven forbid the Burgundy is banned.
There is no logical argument to ban one and not the other. It’s merely another expression of the middle class progressives imposing their wishes with the price being paid by poorer people.
Go back in time, prevent Hitler, see him replaced by someone just as evil but more competent...
We really have to wait to see what happens in our own population, or a very similar country.
But with a free and quick test, or a free and quick vaccination as easy (and useful and safe) options, I fail to see the big issue with them for large events. I have used the NHS Covid Pass for entry at least a dozen times to various places, it is very simple and quick.
How "libertarians" are throwing their toys out of their prams about that, yet can't get worked up about 10% of us being reduced to second class temporary citizens, or the executive taking further significant judicial powers into their hands, I do not understand.
Possibly when people say a booster produces a similar response against Omicron as two doses produces against Delta, they mean "two doses completed 6 months ago".
I agree with you on the citizenship (proposed) law. It's entirely possible to believe the Government is shit in multiple ways at the same time.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
I don't smoke and don't take illegal drugs, but prohibition is a failure that doesn't work. Chicago showed that with alcohol, the west has shown that with illegal drugs, now why would we possibly think doing the same with tobacco would work this time?
Smoking would still exist, just tobacco would be vended through drug dealers instead of licensed, regulated and taxed retailers.
It took the party 15 years to recover from the treacherous assassination of Maggie
Really? So when John Major received the Highest Vote Ever a year and a half later that was proof that the party had collapsed?
HYUFD can't even get it right when he's talking about his own party.