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If this narrative takes hold then Boris Johnson is doomed – politicalbetting.com

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  • MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
  • Pulpstar said:

    England probably lost the Ashes with the first ball bowled. Could have done with losing the toss. I mean Smith would have been 150 not out at the end of the day but it would have been less psychologically crushing than Burns' royal duck.

    England had lost the Ashes before they got on the plane.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Jonathan said:

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    The modern world generally feels a bit rubbish, but here’s a (hopefully) heartwarming tale. My youngest son 13 has written a book, which he intends to give as gifts. He uploaded the file to Amazon and paid out the money he has earned in chores for someone to design a cover. He is having real paperbacks made for his mum, brother and aunt.

    None of this would have been thinkable for adults a few years ago, but here we are with a 13yr old doing all this off completely of his own bat.

    In all the horrors of Covid and nonsense of populist politics, we forget the miracles around us. Our world is amazing. There is so much out there.

    How incredibly wonderful! What genre is it?
    Tolkienesque fantasy I think. He’s a bit that way inclined. He had done the Amazon bit and research artists totally on his own, I found out today. His older brother was apparently in on it and - usually a stern critic - says it is actually good.

    Good lad! I tried doing something like that when I was about 13 and wrote something like 2 pages before I gave up!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    geoffw said:

    It hasn't been an edifying day with Boris ambushed for the "party" and Allegra taking a hit for the team while the known unknown omicron looms ever larger in the run up to Christmas. Even so, looking at the alternatives available within his own party and across the aisle I'd stick with Boris. And I hope he toughs it out. That said, North Shropshire is probably on a knife-edge after today.

    How come Geoff? Johnson has always been the worst of the worst and today was his crowning glory.

    Any one of Starmer, Hunt, Sunak, Truss... or heaven forbid Gove or even Raab would be head and shoulders better than Johnson. I might draw the line at Steve Baker but even that is a close call.

    Unquestionably the most incompetent Prime Minister (including Lord North).
  • It will not happen overnight or even in the next few months and it could struggle on for a while beyond that; but we have entered the beginning of the end of Boris Johnson.

    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1468716975341854720?s=20
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Andy_JS said:

    The liberal media really does hate Boris Johnson.


    Devastating headline for Johnson.
    Genius.

    Hate the Mail.

    Brilliant headline.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Jonathan said:

    DougSeal said:

    Jonathan said:

    The modern world generally feels a bit rubbish, but here’s a (hopefully) heartwarming tale. My youngest son 13 has written a book, which he intends to give as gifts. He uploaded the file to Amazon and paid out the money he has earned in chores for someone to design a cover. He is having real paperbacks made for his mum, brother and aunt.

    None of this would have been thinkable for adults a few years ago, but here we are with a 13yr old doing all this off completely of his own bat.

    In all the horrors of Covid and nonsense of populist politics, we forget the miracles around us. Our world is amazing. There is so much out there.

    How incredibly wonderful! What genre is it?
    Tolkienesque fantasy I think. He’s a bit that way inclined. He had done the Amazon bit and research artists totally on his own, I found out today. His older brother was apparently in on it and - usually a stern critic - says it is actually good.

    Would you mind linking it? I think a few of us here would like to support him by buying/reading it. It's a genre that's pretty popular on PB too!
  • Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    drip drip drip...whatsapp message saying bob was wankered at the party, couldn't walk home....
    drip drip drip....somebody says well I was there and i saw Boris walk past the door....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited December 2021
    Last thought for the evening:

    There are 100+ journalists out there who now strongly suspect there is a single smoking gun that could bring down a Prime Minister.

    That is career-defining. That is the ultimate prize, a British Watergate with the same adulation for whoever finds it. No British journalist has achieved that since... when?

    If that smoking gun exists, for this reason I am convinced it will be found.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    It hasn't been an edifying day with Boris ambushed for the "party" and Allegra taking a hit for the team while the known unknown omicron looms ever larger in the run up to Christmas. Even so, looking at the alternatives available within his own party and across the aisle I'd stick with Boris. And I hope he toughs it out. That said, North Shropshire is probably on a knife-edge after today.

    If Boris wins North Shropshire after this it would be a triumph
    It could definitely still happen if Labour's vote holds up at around 15-20%.
    And for that to happen there would have to be literally thousands of Labour voters at the Tim Nice But Exceedingly Dim level. 😆
    I think only around half of Labour voters would go tactically, and even in shire England there is a hard-core Labour vote. Add in a bit of swing to Lab since 2019 and 15% is really quite likely.

    Lab did get 31% in the 2017 GE, at peak Jezzmania, and 22% even in the worst result in postwar history of 2019. so there is quite a strong Labour vote. I have a modest sum on a Con win, and may top up further if the odds shift further to the LDs. This really is donkey with a blue rosette territory.

  • Last thought for the evening:

    There are 100+ journalists out there who now strongly suspect there is a single smoking gun that could bring down a Prime Minister.

    That is career-defining. That is the ultimate prize, a British Watergate with the same adulation for whoever finds it.

    If that smoking gun exists, for this reason I am convinced it will be found.

    There were apparently journalists at them.
  • MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    Or a Covid tax that isn't paid by the vaccinated. £600 per annum poll tax levied on every adult, with the vaccinated getting a £600 per annum credit against that tax.

    You can stay unvaccinated if you want, but you'll pay £50 a month every month in tax to support the NHS just as smokers have to.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Last thought for the evening:

    There are 100+ journalists out there who now strongly suspect there is a single smoking gun that could bring down a Prime Minister.

    That is career-defining. That is the ultimate prize, a British Watergate with the same adulation for whoever finds it.

    If that smoking gun exists, for this reason I am convinced it will be found.

    I agree.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
    No he is boxed in now that he absolutely never knew anything about anything about a party. Any evidence that he was at any point in time he was aware a party went on, he is stuffed.

    And it seems highly unlikely that a) he didn't know in advance and b) that what they had a piss up and nobody ever mentioned at any point ever.

    On the day of the Christmas Party, he was apparently out of #10 during the day (in Derby I believe), but came back in the evening.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    Or a Covid tax that isn't paid by the vaccinated. £600 per annum poll tax levied on every adult, with the vaccinated getting a £600 per annum credit against that tax.

    You can stay unvaccinated if you want, but you'll pay £50 a month every month in tax to support the NHS just as smokers have to.
    I'd triple it, but yes, make it payable by everyone over 18 not in full time education and a full rebate for fully vaccinated people.
  • Leon said:

    America quietly heading back into Covidland

    So far today it has 103,000 cases and 1000+ deaths. With plenty of time to go

    +27% 14 day change says NY Times
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Foxy said:

    Do we know how the Christmas party story came out? It's pretty great timing, before the next Christmas so it's topical and right before a potential new lockdown.

    Loads of hacks must have known about it the whole time so why now?

    They must have thought that they had got away with it, but someone enjoys their revenge served cold and has timed it perfectly.

    It does show how hand in glove our media are with our political masters. It really is quite an astonishingly small clique that runs the country. Circles within circles.
    Nothing about this years two videos, Hancock’s hand in cookie jar, and amazing Mrs Allegra, you actually consider unfairly iffy in their leaking?
  • MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
  • Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
    Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.

  • gabyhinsliff
    @gabyhinsliff
    ·
    3h
    Polite reminder that if you know someone who really struggled during last lot of restrictions, call them. We’re all feeling a bit depressed about it coming back but some will be absolutely dreading the next few weeks.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited December 2021

    Leon said:

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
    No he is boxed in now that he absolutely never knew anything about anything about a party. Any evidence that he was at any point in time he was aware a party went on, he is stuffed.

    And it seems highly unlikely that a) he didn't know in advance and b) that what they had a piss up and nobody ever mentioned at any point ever.
    I dunno. I keep veering between opinions. (Yes, I know this is unusual)

    This feels terminal, but what if Bojo just says Fuck off, I'm staying. Does anyone in the Tory party really have the guts or the confidence or even the power to bring him down? Some PB-ers may laugh at HYUFD, but he represents a significant slice of Tory activists: the ones grateful to Boris for winning a large majority. Just as there are others who are grateful to him for finalising Brexit. These are not small things. Blair had a large loyal following even after Iraq

    And Boris wins elections. And he has weird luck. And he has no obvious rivals. Thatcher had the demonic weirdo Heseltine, with Howe to assassinate her. Major had innumerable potent foes (and lost anyway). Cameron had, well, Boris

    Who is Boris' obvious nemesis, who is his obvious successor?

    Hm

  • Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    It possibly was. They seem to be utterly against the idea that antivaxxers should own the consequences of their choices.
  • An astute tweet by Paul Waugh:

    Unless the Cabinet were given radically different data from yesterday's Cabinet meeting (which is not impossible but unlikely), it's difficult to see why the PM convened them today to make the restrictions announcement.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
    No he is boxed in now that he absolutely never knew anything about anything about a party. Any evidence that he was at any point in time he was aware a party went on, he is stuffed.

    And it seems highly unlikely that a) he didn't know in advance and b) that what they had a piss up and nobody ever mentioned at any point ever.
    I dunno. I keep veering between opinions. (Yes, I know this is unusual)

    This feels terminal, but what if Bojo just says Fuck off, I'm staying. Does anyone in the Tory party really have the guts or the confidence or even the power to bring him down? Some PB-ers may laugh at HYUFD, but he represents a significant slice of Tory activists: the ones grateful to Boris for winning a large majority. Just as there are others who are grateful to him for finalising Brexit. These are not small things. Blair had a large loyal following even after Iraq

    And Boris wins elections. And he has weird luck. And he has no obvious rivals. Thatcher had the demonic weirdo Heseltine, with Howe to assassinate her. Major had innumerable potent foes (and lost anyway). Cameron had, well, Boris

    Who is Boris' obvious nemesis, who is his obvious successor?

    Hm

    Nah he has over done it now....its just a matter of now or a bit later.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Foxy said:

    Do we know how the Christmas party story came out? It's pretty great timing, before the next Christmas so it's topical and right before a potential new lockdown.

    Loads of hacks must have known about it the whole time so why now?

    They must have thought that they had got away with it, but someone enjoys their revenge served cold and has timed it perfectly.

    It does show how hand in glove our media are with our political masters. It really is quite an astonishingly small clique that runs the country. Circles within circles.
    Nothing about this years two videos, Hancock’s hand in cookie jar, and amazing Mrs Allegra, you actually consider unfairly iffy in their leaking?
    Clearly there are a few plotters wanting revenge, and Johnson must be sweating that more will emerge. Whoever is leaking this has good timing.
  • Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,400
    edited December 2021
    sarissa said:

    OT, a value bet for tomorrow’s footie - Midtjylland to win their Europa League group at 9/1 on Bet365. The two (very possible) results that will bring about this are a combined 5.13/1. As ever, DYOR.

    Well spotted.
    Love these quirky little mispricings.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    America quietly heading back into Covidland

    So far today it has 103,000 cases and 1000+ deaths. With plenty of time to go

    +27% 14 day change says NY Times
    America is about to explode into a new wave - plus Omicron
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    Leon said:

    Unpopular opinion: as soon as Boris goes - like, within about 3 weeks - lots of people will miss him, a lot

    For all his manifold flaws - which are now destroying him - he cheered people. Made them smile. That's what we will miss. I once read in a book by that awful Tom Knox dude that "the friends you miss most are the friends that made you laugh". It is true. And Boris was that person for plenty of Britons

    Instead it will be Boring Kir Royale Starmer versus boring Rishi Sunak or Michael Gove or whoever, and it will all seem terribly grey and dull. And we will mourn

    Four years ago it looked possible that a future general election (after the 2017 disaster for May, and Corbyn therefore staying on) that it could be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn.

    I said to a friend at the time that I'd pay £50 to be part of such a General Election campaign (which of course would in reality would be free for me being a British citizen) so hyped was I by the utter comedy of Corbyn v Mogg in some hypothetical debates.

    I suppose I might miss the comedy of Boris, but in reality I'd like him gone. I didn't want him in 2019, and I don't want him now.

    But no one cares what I think, certainly not in Bootle.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
    Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
    Yup, this is worse than Barnard Castle. That at least had a weird story involving sick children and possible but not believable childcare issues. A lot of parents can sympathise with irrational behaviour so while it cut through I don't think it was terminal. This feels absolutely terminal for Boris, partying while the rest of the nation suffered through lockdown and isolation over Xmas after being told we would be able to have it then it being cancelled 3 days before was terrible.

    The fact that he, nor anyone else, stopped and thought that what they were doing was wrong having just told the nation to stay home and not see their families is telling of the man and the government.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021

    An astute tweet by Paul Waugh:

    Unless the Cabinet were given radically different data from yesterday's Cabinet meeting (which is not impossible but unlikely), it's difficult to see why the PM convened them today to make the restrictions announcement.

    They have....but I don't think that's the reason for today.

    Since yesterday we have had several studies on vaccines and also there is new data on state of play in SA.
  • pigeon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I am so furious at all this. These restrictions will likely harm Daughter's business again if people take fright and stay away. But no support this time.

    And Eldest Son is now worried about his job - in Canary Wharf - in retail. What happens if people stay away?

    And all this for what? To protect someone who doesn't have the decency to admit a mistake and say sorry but throws everyone around him under the bus.

    It's infuriating and pathetic and wrong.

    It is also utterly ludicrous. So I suppose there is nothing to do but sit back and enjoy or endure the Italianisation of our politics. We have our very own Berlusconi in charge. It shames us as a nation. But it's what people voted for.

    Not me, though. At least I can say I didn't vote for this lot. It's something I suppose.

    There are no changes for shops or pubs or restaurants tonight.

    The only changes are vax passports for nightclubs and large events and facemasks for cinemas and theatres.

    Plenty in Canary Wharf were wfh much of the week already
    You appear to have absolutely no comprehension of the effect that this drip feeding of measures has on public confidence. It's only about five minutes since the mask mandate came back for public transport, and now we have it for a scattergun assortment of entertainment venues, plus the introduction of vaxports and the return of WFH orders.

    The frightened element of the population is now going to assume that Omicron must be really dangerous and it's time to brick themselves up in their houses until next August; most of the rest of us will conclude that there will be more restrictions in the next couple of weeks, and then more after that, and more after that, and there's no point in looking forward to or planning anything, because it's only going to take one exceedingly dodgy set of made-up scary numbers from Warwick University to have your hero telling us all to sit and rot at home for the whole of the rest of the Winter.

    Masks in museums and Covid passes to get into nightclubs have achieved the square root of f*** all elsewhere in our own country and they'll achieve nothing useful against this wretched disease in England, either. The only thing they do is remind everyone of the end of 2020 and think "Here we go again."
    The only action which would work is action against anti-vaxxers.

    Not only that it would be popular as well.

    So inevitably the establishment opposes it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    geoffw said:

    It hasn't been an edifying day with Boris ambushed for the "party" and Allegra taking a hit for the team while the known unknown omicron looms ever larger in the run up to Christmas. Even so, looking at the alternatives available within his own party and across the aisle I'd stick with Boris. And I hope he toughs it out. That said, North Shropshire is probably on a knife-edge after today.

    If Boris wins North Shropshire after this it would be a triumph
    It could definitely still happen if Labour's vote holds up at around 15-20%.
    And for that to happen there would have to be literally thousands of Labour voters at the Tim Nice But Exceedingly Dim level. 😆
    I think only around half of Labour voters would go tactically, and even in shire England there is a hard-core Labour vote. Add in a bit of swing to Lab since 2019 and 15% is really quite likely.

    Lab did get 31% in the 2017 GE, at peak Jezzmania, and 22% even in the worst result in postwar history of 2019. so there is quite a strong Labour vote. I have a modest sum on a Con win, and may top up further if the odds shift further to the LDs. This really is donkey with a blue rosette territory.

    The Tories really do need that Labour vote holding up I think now. And I think you are wrong. It’s going to bee squeezed till the pips squeak.

    I got on yellow at 3-1.

    Yeeeeeeeeellooooows. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeloooooooows
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    Or a Covid tax that isn't paid by the vaccinated. £600 per annum poll tax levied on every adult, with the vaccinated getting a £600 per annum credit against that tax.

    You can stay unvaccinated if you want, but you'll pay £50 a month every month in tax to support the NHS just as smokers have to.
    I'd triple it, but yes, make it payable by everyone over 18 not in full time education and a full rebate for fully vaccinated people.
    This is the point HYFUD spectacularly missed earlier. Use a proper and effective lever to improve vaccination rates that doesn’t infringe on the rest of us i.e. the opposite of vaxports. And he’d have gone some way to moving on from this scandal. Certainly he’d have been safer from backbench mutiny than he is tonight.

    Instead he’s dug his hole twice as deep. There’s no political skill in this operation any more, much less effective policy making.
  • MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
  • All very easy for Australia.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,632

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
    No he is boxed in now that he absolutely never knew anything about anything about a party. Any evidence that he was at any point in time he was aware a party went on, he is stuffed.

    And it seems highly unlikely that a) he didn't know in advance and b) that what they had a piss up and nobody ever mentioned at any point ever.
    I dunno. I keep veering between opinions. (Yes, I know this is unusual)

    This feels terminal, but what if Bojo just says Fuck off, I'm staying. Does anyone in the Tory party really have the guts or the confidence or even the power to bring him down? Some PB-ers may laugh at HYUFD, but he represents a significant slice of Tory activists: the ones grateful to Boris for winning a large majority. Just as there are others who are grateful to him for finalising Brexit. These are not small things. Blair had a large loyal following even after Iraq

    And Boris wins elections. And he has weird luck. And he has no obvious rivals. Thatcher had the demonic weirdo Heseltine, with Howe to assassinate her. Major had innumerable potent foes (and lost anyway). Cameron had, well, Boris

    Who is Boris' obvious nemesis, who is his obvious successor?

    Hm

    Nah he has over done it now....its just a matter of now or a bit later.
    He is a dead man walking now, and knows it. Like May though he will hang on for a long time before someone puts him out of our misery.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
    Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
    Yup, this is worse than Barnard Castle. That at least had a weird story involving sick children and possible but not believable childcare issues. A lot of parents can sympathise with irrational behaviour so while it cut through I don't think it was terminal. This feels absolutely terminal for Boris, partying while the rest of the nation suffered through lockdown and isolation over Xmas after being told we would be able to have it then it being cancelled 3 days before was terrible.

    The fact that he, nor anyone else, stopped and thought that what they were doing was wrong having just told the nation to stay home and not see their families is telling of the man and the government.
    I think Big Dom would have been able to come back if he had just stuck to the scared, child care, made a mistake, very sorry. He could have really laid it on thick with threats to his life in post resignation interviews. If he had stepped down and come 6-12 months down the line.
  • All very easy for Australia.

    Haven't we got a wicket yet? 😈
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I'm sure you're right. At one point in the Press Conference earlier, Whitty or Vallance (can't remember which) said people should do what they can to reduce their social contacts. Moments later, Boris said Christmas parties should go ahead. Whatever one's views, that's poor mixed messaging.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I'm sure you're right. At one point in the Press Conference earlier, Whitty or Vallance (can't remember which) said people should do what they can to reduce their social contacts. Moments later, Boris said Christmas parties should go ahead. Whatever one's views, that's poor mixed messaging.
    For me, it was clear Witty was really quite negative and crucially he made a big point of saying "the cabinet signed off on these measures" i.e. don't blame me, I didn't ask for these here nor there lot.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    An astute tweet by Paul Waugh:

    Unless the Cabinet were given radically different data from yesterday's Cabinet meeting (which is not impossible but unlikely), it's difficult to see why the PM convened them today to make the restrictions announcement.

    They have....but I don't think that's the reason for today.

    Since yesterday we have had several studies on vaccines and also there is new data on state of play in SA.
    Yes. I reckon this Plan B announcement was coming this week at some point, anyway. The charts from Whitty were off-the-dial alarming. No government could sit idle. Plan B is probably the very least they can get away with, psychologically - it is still way less than most of mainland Europe as things stand

    Did they shift the Plan B announcemt backwards or forwards by a few hours to suit the politics? Maybe. Who cares. The rules don't come into place immediately, everyone has a few days to get acquainted with them

    Lots about this is scandalous, the timing is not, indeed it is possibly MIS-timed by the government, as the two issues intertangle - Partygate meets Plan B
  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
    No he is boxed in now that he absolutely never knew anything about anything about a party. Any evidence that he was at any point in time he was aware a party went on, he is stuffed.

    And it seems highly unlikely that a) he didn't know in advance and b) that what they had a piss up and nobody ever mentioned at any point ever.
    I dunno. I keep veering between opinions. (Yes, I know this is unusual)

    This feels terminal, but what if Bojo just says Fuck off, I'm staying. Does anyone in the Tory party really have the guts or the confidence or even the power to bring him down? Some PB-ers may laugh at HYUFD, but he represents a significant slice of Tory activists: the ones grateful to Boris for winning a large majority. Just as there are others who are grateful to him for finalising Brexit. These are not small things. Blair had a large loyal following even after Iraq

    And Boris wins elections. And he has weird luck. And he has no obvious rivals. Thatcher had the demonic weirdo Heseltine, with Howe to assassinate her. Major had innumerable potent foes (and lost anyway). Cameron had, well, Boris

    Who is Boris' obvious nemesis, who is his obvious successor?

    Hm

    Nah he has over done it now....its just a matter of now or a bit later.
    He is a dead man walking now, and knows it. Like May though he will hang on for a long time before someone puts him out of our misery.
    Johnson is in a retrievable position given all his gifts but on the other hand it probably is not retrievable because of all his vices.

    I doubt anyone on PB would be able to say he is as likely to be leading them into 2023/4 tonight as he was this time last week.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Leon said:

    Unpopular opinion: as soon as Boris goes - like, within about 3 weeks - lots of people will miss him, a lot

    For all his manifold flaws - which are now destroying him - he cheered people. Made them smile. That's what we will miss. I once read in a book by that awful Tom Knox dude that "the friends you miss most are the friends that made you laugh". It is true. And Boris was that person for plenty of Britons

    Instead it will be Boring Kir Royale Starmer versus boring Rishi Sunak or Michael Gove or whoever, and it will all seem terribly grey and dull. And we will mourn

    Four years ago it looked possible that a future general election (after the 2017 disaster for May, and Corbyn therefore staying on) that it could be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn.

    I said to a friend at the time that I'd pay £50 to be part of such a General Election campaign (which of course would in reality would be free for me being a British citizen) so hyped was I by the utter comedy of Corbyn v Mogg in some hypothetical debates.

    I suppose I might miss the comedy of Boris, but in reality I'd like him gone. I didn't want him in 2019, and I don't want him now.

    But no one cares what I think, certainly not in Bootle.
    Is that Cerberus
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Letters going in by sound of Nick Watts on Newsnight

    After the last 24 hours though, how does this story maintain legs and not fizzle out?
    They need a photo or a video of Boris at one of these parties. Without that, it might well fizzle
    No he is boxed in now that he absolutely never knew anything about anything about a party. Any evidence that he was at any point in time he was aware a party went on, he is stuffed.

    And it seems highly unlikely that a) he didn't know in advance and b) that what they had a piss up and nobody ever mentioned at any point ever.
    I dunno. I keep veering between opinions. (Yes, I know this is unusual)

    This feels terminal, but what if Bojo just says Fuck off, I'm staying. Does anyone in the Tory party really have the guts or the confidence or even the power to bring him down? Some PB-ers may laugh at HYUFD, but he represents a significant slice of Tory activists: the ones grateful to Boris for winning a large majority. Just as there are others who are grateful to him for finalising Brexit. These are not small things. Blair had a large loyal following even after Iraq

    And Boris wins elections. And he has weird luck. And he has no obvious rivals. Thatcher had the demonic weirdo Heseltine, with Howe to assassinate her. Major had innumerable potent foes (and lost anyway). Cameron had, well, Boris

    Who is Boris' obvious nemesis, who is his obvious successor?

    Hm

    Nah he has over done it now....its just a matter of now or a bit later.
    He is a dead man walking now, and knows it. Like May though he will hang on for a long time before someone puts him out of our misery.
    Johnson is in a retrievable position given all his gifts but on the other hand it probably is not retrievable because of all his vices.

    I doubt anyone on PB would be able to say he is as likely to be leading them into 2023/4 tonight as he was this time last week.
    Actually, since COVID, Boris doesn't have those powers anymore. He makes mistake after mistake after mistake when speaking (I don't mean stats, I mean he just totally forgets what he is saying) and isn't quick witted very often e.g. today he advocated that people should vote Labour at PMQs.

    Boris "super power" was he could do a funny at the right time to get himself off the hook. He looks lost most of the time.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Final post of the night - the UK with no restrictions has got 7.4k people in hospital with around 700 people per day being hospitalised and the funnel being overall fairly stable. France which has had plan b style restrictions for months has got almost 13k in hospital with about 1.5k entering per day and less than half leaving per day. That was with cases at about 30k per day two weeks ago, now they're at 60k cases per day.

    Someone explain to me exactly how France having plan b measures has made the slightest bit of difference? This isn't just happening in France either, per capita the UK has got one of the lowest hospitalisation rates and in hospital rates. Plan A actually worked, yet the government has fucked it.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
    Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
    Yup, this is worse than Barnard Castle. That at least had a weird story involving sick children and possible but not believable childcare issues. A lot of parents can sympathise with irrational behaviour so while it cut through I don't think it was terminal. This feels absolutely terminal for Boris, partying while the rest of the nation suffered through lockdown and isolation over Xmas after being told we would be able to have it then it being cancelled 3 days before was terrible.

    The fact that he, nor anyone else, stopped and thought that what they were doing was wrong having just told the nation to stay home and not see their families is telling of the man and the government.
    How politically dangerous is Boris open mind on compulsory vaccination? The Telegraph has certainly splashed a headline?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    What are the chances of Australia being 150/0 at tea?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
    Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.

    The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Time to post this.

    Sums it all up, no?

    https://youtu.be/1oU_HFZ2Tr0
  • Andy_JS said:

    What are the chances of Australia being 150/0 at tea?

    Extremely unlikely.

    They'll be at least about 170, not exactly 150.
  • Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I'm sure you're right. At one point in the Press Conference earlier, Whitty or Vallance (can't remember which) said people should do what they can to reduce their social contacts. Moments later, Boris said Christmas parties should go ahead. Whatever one's views, that's poor mixed messaging.
    Johnson just cannot bring himself to deliver the bad news.

    What sort of fecked up logic says it is ok to go to a dinner party on Friday with ten people but not go to work on Monday?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.

    If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?

    Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
    If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
    Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
    🙁. I can appreciate how this could bring back bad memories with a sense of injustice.

    Where do you stand on compulsory Covid vaccination ahead of this debate kicking off Foxy? Where should libdems stand on it?
  • pigeon said:

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
    Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.

    The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
    You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.

    Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    MaxPB said:

    Final post of the night - the UK with no restrictions has got 7.4k people in hospital with around 700 people per day being hospitalised and the funnel being overall fairly stable. France which has had plan b style restrictions for months has got almost 13k in hospital with about 1.5k entering per day and less than half leaving per day. That was with cases at about 30k per day two weeks ago, now they're at 60k cases per day.

    Someone explain to me exactly how France having plan b measures has made the slightest bit of difference? This isn't just happening in France either, per capita the UK has got one of the lowest hospitalisation rates and in hospital rates. Plan A actually worked, yet the government has fucked it.


    Cheer up. I m trying to cheer up.

    If you actually examine the Plan B proposals they aren't that bad. Yes we have crossed the Rubicon of vaxports but it is for limited circumstances and you can also present a negative test. The border is tightened. Of course it is. Working From Home is stupid but there we are, people and companies were probably going to do it anyway as the scary Omicron news floats around the world

    We still have one of the most relaxed set of restrictions in Europe. The Dutch are in a fierce curfew, France has masks outdoors, Germany plays football without fans. We may yet pull through in our muddled, liberal but sometimes victorious British way. We can but hope
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    BTW, speaking of doomed leaders, fair to say Biden / Harris / whoever look increasingly fucked:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/hispanic-voters-now-evenly-split-between-parties-wsj-poll-finds-11638972769
  • MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    Persuasion comes from a stick as well as a carrot.

    There is no way that financially hitting anti-vaxxers can make the situation worse.

    Nobody is going to stop getting vaccinated who otherwise would have done and some who wouldn't might now do so.

    And if they still wont get vaccinated then there will at least be more money raised from an unpopular group.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    pigeon said:

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
    Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.

    The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
    You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.

    Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
    That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket

    The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max



  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited December 2021
    Came up with a fun Covid indicator tonight (for people with short hair).

    Should you visit the barber ASAP?

    Tonight = 100% of those sampled.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,552
    England strike courtesy of Robinson.
  • MaxPB said:

    Final post of the night - the UK with no restrictions has got 7.4k people in hospital with around 700 people per day being hospitalised and the funnel being overall fairly stable. France which has had plan b style restrictions for months has got almost 13k in hospital with about 1.5k entering per day and less than half leaving per day. That was with cases at about 30k per day two weeks ago, now they're at 60k cases per day.

    Someone explain to me exactly how France having plan b measures has made the slightest bit of difference? This isn't just happening in France either, per capita the UK has got one of the lowest hospitalisation rates and in hospital rates. Plan A actually worked, yet the government has fucked it.

    I doubt Boris and his gang have any clue as to the hospital data of other countries and how it compares with the UK.

    I suspect the only thing they look at is the number of daily cases.

    And then they probably don't even adjust for different population numbers per country.
  • We actually have a wicket. Wow.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    Persuasion comes from a stick as well as a carrot.

    There is no way that financially hitting anti-vaxxers can make the situation worse.

    Nobody is going to stop getting vaccinated who otherwise would have done and some who wouldn't might now do so.

    And if they still wont get vaccinated then there will at least be more money raised from an unpopular group.
    Trying to raise money from them to help pay for their healthcare is a useless measure. The overriding imperative, in keeping the system afloat and avoiding heavier and heavier restrictions, is to reduce the number of patients in the first place. You do that by finding means to force those unvaccinated through choice to change their minds by making their lives impossible, or you explicitly deny them some forms of care, or both.

    If society is not prepared to take such measures then it has to live with the consequences of having a large pool of disease susceptible persons permanently amongst it. If we find ourselves in a situation where Covid doesn't evolve into a tame enough form to be ignored, and instead we have to vaccinate regularly to try to keep a lid on it, then this may mean restrictions of varying severity, repeating in regular cycles, forever.
  • We actually have a wicket. Wow.

    Its the hope that kills you.
  • MaxPB said:

    Final post of the night - the UK with no restrictions has got 7.4k people in hospital with around 700 people per day being hospitalised and the funnel being overall fairly stable. France which has had plan b style restrictions for months has got almost 13k in hospital with about 1.5k entering per day and less than half leaving per day. That was with cases at about 30k per day two weeks ago, now they're at 60k cases per day.

    Someone explain to me exactly how France having plan b measures has made the slightest bit of difference? This isn't just happening in France either, per capita the UK has got one of the lowest hospitalisation rates and in hospital rates. Plan A actually worked, yet the government has fucked it.

    I doubt Boris and his gang have any clue as to the hospital data of other countries and how it compares with the UK.

    I suspect the only thing they look at is the number of daily cases.

    And then they probably don't even adjust for different population numbers per country.
    They literally had stats from SA in the press conference.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I wonder what the number 10 Flickr account for 18/12/2020 shows? I can’t be bothered to scroll back that far
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    pigeon said:

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
    Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.

    The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
    Your last sentence is one of the reasons why Daughter will not be renewing her lease when it expires this March. Why have another year battling to do business with one hand tied behind your back every few weeks.

    Enough of this shit. She's made some money, learnt a hell of a lot, proved herself an astute business woman, developed enormous resilience and toughness and still has more integrity and common-sense in her little finger than Boris has in his whole body.

    She will look for the next opportunity. She's a grafter and would grace any organisation sensible enough to employ her. And she'd like to have a bit more of a social life. She is, of course, very beautiful too and it is time for her to have some fun. She's missed out on so much these last 2 years, as all our younglings have.

    Any brilliant ideas for Ms Cyclefree Junior send them my way. To be honest she could run the country better than the PM though, admittedly, that's a low bar these days.
  • MaxPB said:

    Final post of the night - the UK with no restrictions has got 7.4k people in hospital with around 700 people per day being hospitalised and the funnel being overall fairly stable. France which has had plan b style restrictions for months has got almost 13k in hospital with about 1.5k entering per day and less than half leaving per day. That was with cases at about 30k per day two weeks ago, now they're at 60k cases per day.

    Someone explain to me exactly how France having plan b measures has made the slightest bit of difference? This isn't just happening in France either, per capita the UK has got one of the lowest hospitalisation rates and in hospital rates. Plan A actually worked, yet the government has fucked it.

    I doubt Boris and his gang have any clue as to the hospital data of other countries and how it compares with the UK.

    I suspect the only thing they look at is the number of daily cases.

    And then they probably don't even adjust for different population numbers per country.
    They literally had stats from SA in the press conference.
    Yes but that's not the issue.

    The issue is comparing the UK without "Plan B" with those countries (Scot, Wales, NI and continental Europe) which have done Plan B as their Plan A.

    Plan B doesn't work. The rest of Europe have already proved that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    isam said:

    I wonder what the number 10 Flickr account for 18/12/2020 shows? I can’t be bothered to scroll back that far

    I didn't even know flickr was a still thing. Why does anybody use that these days?
  • France reports 61,340 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since October 2020 and the fourth-highest on record
  • France reports 61,340 new coronavirus cases, the biggest one-day increase since October 2020 and the fourth-highest on record

    Why don't we adopt their health policies then, they're clearly working!

    Idiots. Somebody needs to rid us of these clowns.
  • pigeon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.

    If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?

    Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
    If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
    I'm baffled why there aren't Conservative politicians advocating this.

    After all the number of Conservative voters who are anti-vaxxers must be miniscule.

    Then again I never understood why Conservative politicians preferred locking down the country to restricting international travel.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,494

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Also - the Instagram index rates the Boris party as very highly engaging. All of the meme pages, stories from real friends and other randoms are on it. This isn't going away and plan b has magnified the errors. It's exactly what I expected to happen, this announcement would end up making it worse for Boris rather than distracting everyone.

    My wife is livid tonight and has said she's going to vote for Starmer next time.
    Mrs Foxy was nearly in tears earlier watching the news. She loathes Johnson, but the thought of his partying away while she couldn't see her mother in a Nursing home last Christmas, her final Christmas brought it all back. That anger is real with the British public, just listen to any vox pop or phone in.
    🙁. I can appreciate how this could bring back bad memories with a sense of injustice.

    Where do you stand on compulsory Covid vaccination ahead of this debate kicking off Foxy? Where should libdems stand on it?
    We can watch other countries to see if it works. But even if it works there may be liberal reasons not to do it? We already have great rates in this country for getting vaxxed which others might not have? I know other twenty somethings who unlike me not vaxxed, but they aren’t anti vaxxers just havn’t got round to it, can I invent term lazyvaxxer because soon as you get it more priority to them, you can’t go snowboarding in February then they go straight down walk in centre.
    So I’m thinking I am against compulsion
  • MaxPB said:

    Final post of the night - the UK with no restrictions has got 7.4k people in hospital with around 700 people per day being hospitalised and the funnel being overall fairly stable. France which has had plan b style restrictions for months has got almost 13k in hospital with about 1.5k entering per day and less than half leaving per day. That was with cases at about 30k per day two weeks ago, now they're at 60k cases per day.

    Someone explain to me exactly how France having plan b measures has made the slightest bit of difference? This isn't just happening in France either, per capita the UK has got one of the lowest hospitalisation rates and in hospital rates. Plan A actually worked, yet the government has fucked it.

    I doubt Boris and his gang have any clue as to the hospital data of other countries and how it compares with the UK.

    I suspect the only thing they look at is the number of daily cases.

    And then they probably don't even adjust for different population numbers per country.
    They literally had stats from SA in the press conference.
    They're always capable of feeding Boris scary graphs which extrapolate to infinity when they want to impose extra restrictions.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
    Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.

    The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
    You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.

    Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
    That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket

    The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max
    Of course, the other problem if they embark on the lockdown route is the glacial pace of unlockdown. Another sodding "roadmap" lasting until about August, with months and months of two metre rules and facemask rules and rules of six. Bullshit for most of the year, a few weeks off in the Autumn, and then off we go again.
  • pigeon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.

    If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?

    Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
    If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
    I'm baffled why there aren't Conservative politicians advocating this.

    After all the number of Conservative voters who are anti-vaxxers must be miniscule.

    Then again I never understood why Conservative politicians preferred locking down the country to restricting international travel.
    Charles Walker is unvaccinated AFAIK. Lost all respect for him as a lockdown sceptic when I found that out.

    Saw him say its because he doesn't like needles instead of being against vaccines, and that he'd get a vaccine if it was a nasal spray.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    USA still ascending as the various state counts come in

    Now 118,000 cases and 1,213 deaths, with hours to go

    Could be a big, troubling day
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,589
    edited December 2021

    pigeon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.

    If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?

    Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
    If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
    I'm baffled why there aren't Conservative politicians advocating this.

    After all the number of Conservative voters who are anti-vaxxers must be miniscule.

    Then again I never understood why Conservative politicians preferred locking down the country to restricting international travel.
    Charles Walker is unvaccinated AFAIK. Lost all respect for him as a lockdown sceptic when I found that out.

    Saw him say its because he doesn't like needles instead of being against vaccines, and that he'd get a vaccine if it was a nasal spray.
    So he's saying he would rather risk death than have someone stick a tiny needle into his upper arm ?

    A real leader of the country there.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2021
    Leon said:

    USA still ascending as the various state counts come in

    Now 118,000 cases and 1,213 deaths, with hours to go

    Could be a big, troubling day

    Its just Darwinism trying to save America's democracy.

    Its ironic the people who don't believe in Darwin are the ones escorting themselves out of the voting and gene pool.
  • pigeon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Interestingly, did no one in No 10 (when they had put down their cheese straws and glass of plonk) think that the headlines would end up being along the lines of 'they disobey the rules, while they give us new rules'?


    I had a rare disagreement with @MaxPB earlier because he thought new rules would come in as a dead cat while I thought the events of the day meant that new restrictions were less likely as surely they'd see just how damaging the juxtaposition of new rules and broken rules would be?

    Mea culpa, it seems Max was right and I was wrong. But I still think that the juxtaposition of broken rules and new rules is a catastrophically stupid idea and I can't believe they were too thick not to spot it!

    It seems they're even less intelligent than I thought, and I'd already lost a lot of respect.
    If they were clever they would have brought in restrictions on health treatment of anti-vaxxers.

    Which would have got lots of attention, been widely popular but opposed by Labour.
    Waiting list for antivaxxers.

    "Oh you need oxygen? Haven't had your vaccine I see. We'll have a bed with some oxygen available for you in 3 months, have a nice day."
    Private insurance is still the best route. Make not having the vaccine have monetary consequences.
    There's various things they could do but it seems they want to pander to anti-vaxxers.

    Don't understand it.
    If you go after the anti-vax in the ways mentioned above, it makes the problem worse. Many are just hesitant rather than Piers Corbyn level swivel-eyed lunatics. Better to try to persuade than hit with a big stick.
    We've had persuasion for twelve months now. Today is the anniversary of the vaccine rollout beginning.

    If they're not persuaded by now, when will they be?

    Its absolutely wrong to compel people to get a vaccine they don't want, but to charge people a tax to pay for their choices (as we do with tobacco, alcohol and others) is entirely reasonable.
    If we end up in another lockdown because the hospitals are clogged up again, and it turns out that we're still in the position where the large majority of the Covid patients are unvaccinated, then the gloves can and should come off as far as I'm concerned. Bring in vaxports to access work and to claim benefits and let the hardcore heel diggers starve. Fuck em all.
    I'm baffled why there aren't Conservative politicians advocating this.

    After all the number of Conservative voters who are anti-vaxxers must be miniscule.

    Then again I never understood why Conservative politicians preferred locking down the country to restricting international travel.
    Charles Walker is unvaccinated AFAIK. Lost all respect for him as a lockdown sceptic when I found that out.

    Saw him say its because he doesn't like needles instead of being against vaccines, and that he'd get a vaccine if it was a nasal spray.
    So he's saying he would rather risk death than have someone stick a tiny needle into his upper arm ?

    A real leader of the country there.
    An extra irony being that he said that all restrictions should be lifted once the vulnerable are vaccinated but wont help that along by getting vaccinated as someone in a vulnerable category.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,913
    Leon said:

    pigeon said:

    Don’t go to work, but do go to parties, says Boris Johnson
    Immediate backlash at ‘irrational’ new Covid rules after Prime Minister moves England to Plan B

    Telegraph

    There is no way Chris Witty et al advice was this. I bet there advice was back to WFH + rule of 6 type thing.
    I would say so.

    There is a grim inevitability feel to this. By, say 18th, we will be being told to keep to small gatherings (rule of 6) and so on.

    I am very low tonight.
    Quite honestly, who knows with this bunch of poisonous clowns? They might announce something else next week; they might just as easily let hospitality have the festive season and then implement a repeat of last Winter's lockdown, starting on the 3rd of January and lasting until Easter.

    The rules change from week to week, they're capricious and they're arbitrary. You never know when you're going to be hit and it's impossible to plan for or look forward to pretty much any activity that can't be done through effing Zoom. All we can do is ignore them to the best of our ability, although the poor bloody businesses, which are sitting ducks for this kind of regulation, don't have that option.
    You might be right about giving the hospitality trade the xmas season. Then hard lockdown on 3rd Jan.

    Hopefully, Sunak will resign in protest and we can have a leadership election.
    That's my assumption. Give pubs and caffs and the rest a chance to make a decent Xmas income. Total lockdown in early Jan as Omicron bites, like a dominatrix on Ket

    The lockdown will be shorter than last year because Omicron is much brisker in its business. Six weeks not 16? Still fucking grim to the max



    There won't be another lockdown, at most vaxports will be extended beyond clubs and large events to restaurants, pubs, cinemas and theatres.

    Most of use have been double vaccinated, by January most of us will have had our boosters. The only real risk of hospitalisation therefore from Omicron will be from the unvaccinated and vaxports can deal with them
  • For anyone still doubting the impact of the party story.

    Worth bearing in mind that around 600,000 people have died from all causes since last Christmas. A very significant number of the surviving relatives - perhaps even a majority - may well have made a decision not to see those who are now dead last Christmas as they were abiding by the Government's guidance and the law. I don't think it is illogical to consider that most of those people will now be extremely pissed off with Mr Johnson and his band of happy party goers. They gave up their last Christmas with Mum, Dad or Grandparents and now see that the people making and enforcing the rules couldn't give a rat's arse about them.

    Obviously I was already pretty disgusted with Johnson so it doesn't change my vote. I would suspect - and hope - many others will now be seriously reconsidering giving him, or his party for as long as he leads them, any kind of support.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,989
    edited December 2021
    THE SUN SAYS Partygate is a failure of leadership that cannot and must not continue

    Boris is a goner. Just like Warner.
  • STOOOOOOOKKKKKESSSS
  • Stokes bowled Warner . . . and its a No Ball.

    FFS Stokes.
  • NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
  • Warner 150 nailed on now.
  • New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.

    No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.

    Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10290201/New-Zealand-BANS-smoking-Young-people-NEVER-buy-cigarettes-nation-goes-smoke-free.html
  • Edged and just short. They're just teasing us now.
  • For anyone still doubting the impact of the party story.

    Worth bearing in mind that around 600,000 people have died from all causes since last Christmas. A very significant number of the surviving relatives - perhaps even a majority - may well have made a decision not to see those who are now dead last Christmas as they were abiding by the Government's guidance and the law. I don't think it is illogical to consider that most of those people will now be extremely pissed off with Mr Johnson and his band of happy party goers. They gave up their last Christmas with Mum, Dad or Grandparents and now see that the people making and enforcing the rules couldn't give a rat's arse about them.

    Obviously I was already pretty disgusted with Johnson so it doesn't change my vote. I would suspect - and hope - many others will now be seriously reconsidering giving him, or his party for as long as he leads them, any kind of support.

    To be fair though the guidance to minimise contact last Christmas was, for many millions, a good idea with vaccination having begun - a free for all then would have led to extra deaths.

    The lesson to be learnt is to make decisions based upon your own circumstances.

    That may or may not be in accordance with official instructions but so what if it isn't because those at the top will be doing what they want to in any case.
This discussion has been closed.