Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
I disagree. The government isn’t motivated by racism. They’re motivated by wanting to wash their hands of difficult cases like Begum.
They’re similar to the Qatar kerbs, which did indeed shake the cars to bits.
IMO that’s not a bad thing though, they need to police track limits in a way that carries a sporting penalty, but in a way that doesn’t result in driver injuries like the silly sausage kerbs.
I’m heading down there later, will see if I can get a look at them.
New Zealand is banning young people from ever being allowed to buy cigarettes in a rolling program that aims to make the entire country smoke-free by 2025.
No-one under the age of 14 will ever be allowed to buy cigarettes in their lifetime in a desperate bid to eradicate smoking from the country.
Each year the age limit will be increased until it's illegal for the entire nation under NZ Prime Minister Jacinda Adern's radical plan.
I worked in a respiratory unit in NZ 30 years ago. For some not entirely clear reason they have a terrible problem with asthma. We would get people in who would carry on deteriating on admission despite nebuliser, steroid and iv infusions of bronchodilators, then wind up intubated. Much worse than I had seen in the UK. Maoris were particularly bad, and had a very high smoking rate. I agree, time for the ban, and something reasonable to copy here.
I am not a fan of Jacinda Adern but I think this is a great idea. Smoking has no positive effects on society and this is a good way to help prevent people starting in the first place. It is a 50+ year programme to prohibiting smoking completely.
In the same way that cannabis and cocaine are prohibited entirely? There's no problems with them, are there?
I don't smoke and don't take illegal drugs, but prohibition is a failure that doesn't work. Chicago showed that with alcohol, the west has shown that with illegal drugs, now why would we possibly think doing the same with tobacco would work this time?
Smoking would still exist, just tobacco would be vended through drug dealers instead of licensed, regulated and taxed retailers.
Western societies have been successful at stigmatising people who smoke tobacco, to the point where it's viewed in the same light as public masturbation, while drinking (even to excess) is considered fun, and taking cannabis or cocaine is seen as cool.
It's all pretty arbitrary. So, this ban might well work, in a narrow sense, but I suspect that it will just cause people to engage in other forms of behaviour that cause harm to one's health.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
I disagree. The government isn’t motivated by racism. They’re motivated by wanting to wash their hands of difficult cases like Begum.
Yes, but difficult cases make for bad laws. Allowing the Home Secretary to remove citizenship without justification is quite some step to deal with an isolated case.
Under this law a number of regular posters here could be deprived of their citizenship, on grounds that they might reasonably be considered eligible for another countries citizenship, because of ancestry, residence or marriage.
Laws will apply under another government as well as this one, and the next government may be even worse.
Worth noting too that Bangladesh says that Begum is not eligible for citizenship.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
This is the end of meaningful British citizenship. If you have an Irish grandparent you could be effectively banished to Ireland. Presumably Boris could be made stateless as he is eligible for American citizenship. Large parts of the cabinet could presumably be banished, thinking about it. Many of them have some non-British heritage.
The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.
This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)
Well well. I did say that the aim of this policy and the voters the Tories are appeasing was to get rid of the darkies and here it is. It isn't just authoritarian, it's openly racist.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
Applies to some of my grandchildren. Is it worth complaining to 'my' MO..... one P.Patel?
And good morning one and all. Son arrived from Thailand yesterday and was impressed with speed and efficiency off the Covid testing process.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
I disagree. The government isn’t motivated by racism. They’re motivated by wanting to wash their hands of difficult cases like Begum.
So why not allow the Home Secretary to get rid of citizenship from everyone?
Perhaps the people unaffected by the proposed change are not so keen on that......strange.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
This is the end of meaningful British citizenship. If you have an Irish grandparent you could be effectively banished to Ireland. Presumably Boris could be made stateless as he is eligible for American citizenship. Large parts of the cabinet could presumably be banished, thinking about it. Many of them have some non-British heritage.
The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.
This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)
Well well. I did say that the aim of this policy and the voters the Tories are appeasing was to get rid of the darkies and here it is. It isn't just authoritarian, it's openly racist.
While obviously Asian and Black Britons are vulnerable, particularly in view of the history of the Windrush scandal, a lot of white Britons are too. Indeed it would allow nearly all naturalised Britons to have their passports revoked.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
Applies to some of my grandchildren. Is it worth complaining to 'my' MO..... one P.Patel?
And good morning one and all. Son arrived from Thailand yesterday and was impressed with speed and efficiency off the Covid testing process.
No point complaining to Priti Vacant. She is the leading racist of the lot. "I am here, now I'm going to make sure that nobody else like me can also be here. Smirk"
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
I disagree. The government isn’t motivated by racism. They’re motivated by wanting to wash their hands of difficult cases like Begum.
Yes, but difficult cases make for bad laws. Allowing the Home Secretary to remove citizenship without justification is quite some step to deal with an isolated case.
Under this law a number of regular posters here could be deprived of their citizenship, on grounds that they might reasonably be considered eligible for another countries citizenship, because of ancestry, residence or marriage.
Laws will apply under another government as well as this one, and the next government may be even worse.
Worth noting too that Bangladesh says that Begum is not eligible for citizenship.
I don't know the details of this law change, dual-citizens (and those eligible) like Begum can already be stripped of their citizenship that's already the law because of Blair.
So what's new? What's different to the principle that Blair already made the law here?
Also can someone be stripped of citizenship solely because of eligibility for dual citizenship? Or are there other requirements too, like they're a threat to the country or a terrorist etc?
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Probably more than that, given Irish ancestry etc. Indeed it may include me because of my eligibility for an Australian passport.
It is hard to imagine a more flagrantly racist idea emanating from anywhere but a National Front manifesto: it affects half of British Asians and 39% of Black Britons.
Note that the Guardian can’t simply oppose a policy on the grounds that it’s simply wrong (and it is wrong). They have to oppose it because it’s racist.
Well, it is a valid point!
Also worth noting that it allows disenfranchisement of many of the 10 million British citizens currently living abroad, a very high proportion of whom would be eligible for citizenship of their host country.
I disagree. The government isn’t motivated by racism. They’re motivated by wanting to wash their hands of difficult cases like Begum.
Yes, but difficult cases make for bad laws. Allowing the Home Secretary to remove citizenship without justification is quite some step to deal with an isolated case.
Under this law a number of regular posters here could be deprived of their citizenship, on grounds that they might reasonably be considered eligible for another countries citizenship, because of ancestry, residence or marriage.
Laws will apply under another government as well as this one, and the next government may be even worse.
Worth noting too that Bangladesh says that Begum is not eligible for citizenship.
I don't know the details of this law change, dual-citizens (and those eligible) like Begum can already be stripped of their citizenship that's already the law because of Blair.
So what's new? What's different to the principle that Blair already made the law here?
Also can someone be stripped of citizenship solely because of eligibility for dual citizenship? Or are there other requirements too, like they're a threat to the country or a terrorist etc?
Bangladesh says Begum has no rights to their citizenship:
Thinking back on Boris-gate, the problem for the eternal optimists is that this isn't going away. We have had the same story now for about a month - a bunch of sleazy liars openly pocketing your cash whilst thinking they're above the law. No matter how they try and dodge or distract the story comes back with fresh outrages.
Which is why we can say with high levels of confidence that there will be more damaging revelations. The pattern is drop a bomb, fan the flames, let the outrage simmer, drop the next bomb. Because the PM is such a likeable trustworthy collegiate fellow he has made a whole stack of enemies who are now happy to keep burning the supports out underneath him.
I'm not sure how this ends yet. It would take something utterly outrageous for Johnson to have to resign and the Good News for fans of comedy is there are several things that could do it. There remains the stench over donations to pay for Carrie's his flat refurb, the stench over public money to his mistress, the stench of mysterious awards of vast contracts to inexperienced tiny companies who just so happen to be Tories etc etc etc.
Even if one of them doesn't finish him off, the bang bang bang of all these bombs going off must do eventually, especially now that all the populist stuff is gone and instead its cancel Christmas and here's your fuck off huge tax rise.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
This is the end of meaningful British citizenship. If you have an Irish grandparent you could be effectively banished to Ireland. Presumably Boris could be made stateless as he is eligible for American citizenship. Large parts of the cabinet could presumably be banished, thinking about it. Many of them have some non-British heritage.
The sheer magnitude of what is being proposed is incredible. Will someone stand up in Parliament and point out that the legislation could apply to a very large number of MP's and their families? Maybe they need to THINK about the legislation they are passing.
This is true authoritarianism (as opposed to the benign stuff on covid passes that agitates backbench tory MPs)
Well well. I did say that the aim of this policy and the voters the Tories are appeasing was to get rid of the darkies and here it is. It isn't just authoritarian, it's openly racist.
I don't think this one is racist. It is just using a sledgehammer to crack a nut (the Begum problems), but the possible negative outcomes are catastrophic and far, far exceed any benefit from the legislation. This is the reality of being ruled by an arrogant government with a compliant and broken civil service. Everyone eventually has a breaking point; it is noticeable that almost everyone who posts on this website has reached it with this government over the past few weeks.
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
Will the Nationality and Borders bill quietly pass during the partygate fallout ?
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/citizenship-politics-nationality-and-border-bill-repatriation-deportation … Under the proposals, any foreign-born British citizen can be deprived of their citizenship, without notice or notification. Dual citizenship is not a precondition; they can be made stateless so long as the British government believes they are eligible for citizenship of another country. Analysis from the 2011 census, by the New Statesman, finds an astronomical number of people – 5.5 million in England and Wales – who fall into this category, including about 408,000 people born in the UK.…
I am writing a header on this. It is an appalling piece of legislation.
Comments
IMO that’s not a bad thing though, they need to police track limits in a way that carries a sporting penalty, but in a way that doesn’t result in driver injuries like the silly sausage kerbs.
I’m heading down there later, will see if I can get a look at them.
It's all pretty arbitrary. So, this ban might well work, in a narrow sense, but I suspect that it will just cause people to engage in other forms of behaviour that cause harm to one's health.
Under this law a number of regular posters here could be deprived of their citizenship, on grounds that they might reasonably be considered eligible for another countries citizenship, because of ancestry, residence or marriage.
Laws will apply under another government as well as this one, and the next government may be even worse.
Worth noting too that Bangladesh says that Begum is not eligible for citizenship.
And good morning one and all. Son arrived from Thailand yesterday and was impressed with speed and efficiency off the Covid testing process.
Perhaps the people unaffected by the proposed change are not so keen on that......strange.
A high percentage of the cabinet too!
So what's new? What's different to the principle that Blair already made the law here?
Also can someone be stripped of citizenship solely because of eligibility for dual citizenship? Or are there other requirements too, like they're a threat to the country or a terrorist etc?
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/shamima-begum-uk-bangladesh-ban-entry-british-citizenship-appeal
Which is why we can say with high levels of confidence that there will be more damaging revelations. The pattern is drop a bomb, fan the flames, let the outrage simmer, drop the next bomb. Because the PM is such a likeable trustworthy collegiate fellow he has made a whole stack of enemies who are now happy to keep burning the supports out underneath him.
I'm not sure how this ends yet. It would take something utterly outrageous for Johnson to have to resign and the Good News for fans of comedy is there are several things that could do it. There remains the stench over donations to pay for
Carrie'shis flat refurb, the stench over public money to his mistress, the stench of mysterious awards of vast contracts to inexperienced tiny companies who just so happen to be Tories etc etc etc.Even if one of them doesn't finish him off, the bang bang bang of all these bombs going off must do eventually, especially now that all the populist stuff is gone and instead its cancel Christmas and here's your fuck off huge tax rise.
This thread is doomed
But I also have to earn some money.
Pazienza, amici miei .......