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Reassuring CON voters 3 days before the Bexley by-election – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    JBriskin3 said:

    @Farooq

    1997 - too young
    2001 - too drunk and stoned to remember
    2005 - LD
    2010 - LD (+campained for them)
    2015 - disenfanchised
    2017 - Still disenfranchised
    2019 - Con (tactical)

    Oh - and I'll almost certainly be voting Con tactical next time unless I get agoraphobic on the day.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    JBriskin3 said:

    @Farooq

    1997 - too young
    2001 - too drunk and stoned to remember
    2005 - LD
    2010 - LD (+campained for them)
    2015 - disenfanchised
    2017 - Still disenfranchised
    2019 - Con (tactical)

    I wish my reason for not voting in 2001 was exciting as that lol! :D
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150
    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?


    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Pointer,

    No problem. I'm disillusioned anyway.
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    Don't you think he looks tired?

    Fpt



    Its the kids. Boris strikes me as the kind of selfish but charismatic chancer who has always managed to dodge most paternal duties - I don’t mean simply ignoring bastard offspring but always having something more important to do just as the wife needs help with nappies

    But this time he can’t dodge. Carrie looks pretty assertive. He’s in the public spotlight. He’s stuck at Number 10. All = a lack of sleep which is ageing him by a decade in a year
    I’m doing it right now, hope you’re wrong
    I was the child of a man in his fifties. We were never a disruption. Or made to feel like one, more accurately. My father gloried in and loved family life and us.

    The only downside is the risk of losing a parent too early. But even the short time I had with my father has sustained me for the rest of my life. So much of what I've learnt and tried to do was from him.

    So just love your kids and don't worry about your age. You'll be fine.
    I don’t worry about it really, day to day life I love it. Just when I think of how old I will be when they leave school, or that I will be the oldest Dad at Sports Day etc, (I was 44 and 46 when they were born) I hope they aren't embarrassed. If I am feeling inclined to be downbeat, I get angry with myself for not having started earlier as it means I will have less time with them. But if you had said to me when I was 43 with no girlfriend that at 46 I'd be a father of two I would have bit your hand off
    That's the age I had my kids. Mid 40s. I too wish I'd done it earlier, and I have been far from the perfect father, I also get angry with myself for my mistakes

    But do I regret being a Dad? No, it has been the most profoundly enriching experience of my life and my daughters are both healthy and, I think, reasonable happy, with much to look forward to (and troubles as well, of course, but that's life)

    I'd probably be dead by now, from booze and purposelessness, if I hadn't had kids. They forced me to knuckle down and PROVIDE. I shall be sad when they fledge entirely
    Opposite with me. Became a father in my 20s and not a good one. Left and then just did the easy stuff - weekends and holidays. Very grateful to my son that he doesn't hold it against me, that in adulthood he likes me and I seem to be important to him.
    I found out I was going to be a dad for the first time on my 30th birthday, which was the best birthday present I ever received (only the Lego spaceship I got when I was 10 really comes close). Our third and final child was born when I was 37. Being a dad is really the only important thing in my life.
    That's quite a statement. Sure you're a VG one too. Just as well with 3!

    It's got more important to me as I've got older. It gives me a lot now and I'm able to give more back to 'it'. 61 v 34 is quite interesting for father/son. I'm not old and he's not young. It's not quite a generation gap. Or rather it is, literally, but it's at the short end.

    My own is 88 so there's a perfect symmetry. 88/61/34, equal 27 gap. This allows some 'hall of mirrors' musing which I will not subject you to.
    Becoming a parent certainly gives you a new perspective on your own parents. It dawns on you how much they must love you, for one thing.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Just watching the news. Even as an 'end of the pier show' people aren't laughing anymore.

    For people who like him it's probably quite sad
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    I’ve never had the chance to vote for my party of choice (OMRLP), so reluctantly I vote Tory.

    I might as well declare my interest as well. I voted OMRLP at the 2019 General Election, mainly because I know the candidate well enough to have a pint with him from time to time.

    I normally vote Tory in national elections, the exceptions being LibDem at the 1997 GE and Brexit at the 2019 Euro elections. In local elections, I switch between Tory and Lib Dem, depending on local issues.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,860
    edited November 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Looking at RedfieldWilton poll just now, it does not show the widescale condemnation of Boris as seen on here and this is post the rail infrastructure announcements

    Indeed he still leads preferred PM to Starmer by 41% to 32%

    Should we ask ourselves are we actually reflecting the country, though it has to be accepted the Paterson affair has damaged the conservative party and without which I believe they would lead the pols much as that did before it

    I would guess the voting intention of the regular contributers on this site would be 60% Labour, 20% Tory, 10% LD 10% others so not particularly representative.
    Gosh. I'd put it at 10% Boris-Tory, 40% non-Boris Tory, 25% LD, 15% Labour, 10% others/undecided.
    Yes, there is absolutely no way that 60% of PB posters are voting Labour. It must be that Nerys is just noticing our posts a whole lot more.

    If 60% of PB vote Labour at the GE it'll be a majority of about 500.
    Yes, I'm struggling to find more than a handful of loyal Labour voters who post regularly on here, plus another handful who may flirt with Labour but probably won't get past first base when the showdown comes.

    Many of the current posters who berate this particular government are Tories at heart, aren't they?
    I have never voted Tory in my life

    In the 11 GEs I have voted in its 10 times LAB 1 time LD

    Next GE its anybody but LAB if SKS/ Evans are still in charge

    If Boris runs on more levelling up probably Tory any other Tory leader I will vote Green
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612
    Stocky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Looking at RedfieldWilton poll just now, it does not show the widescale condemnation of Boris as seen on here and this is post the rail infrastructure announcements

    Indeed he still leads preferred PM to Starmer by 41% to 32%

    Should we ask ourselves are we actually reflecting the country, though it has to be accepted the Paterson affair has damaged the conservative party and without which I believe they would lead the pols much as that did before it

    I would guess the voting intention of the regular contributers on this site would be 60% Labour, 20% Tory, 10% LD 10% others so not particularly representative.
    I'll let more knowledgeable people do the maths, but here's a list of contributors to this thread:
    You can chalk me down as a tentative SNP for VI. I've made a quick start on some others, apologies if I've misplaced anyone.

    >>confirmed / admitted:
    Farooq = SNP

    >>predicted by others:
    Big_G_NorthWales = Con
    CorrectHorseBattery = Lab
    Dura_Ace = Green
    HYUFD = Con
    kinabalu = Lab
    MikeSmithson = LDem
    NickPalmer = Lab
    Sunil_Prasannan = Con
    Theuniondivvie = SNP

    >>unassigned:
    AlistairM
    Andy_JS
    BannedinnParis
    BigRich
    Burgessian
    CarlottaVance
    Carnyx
    Cicero
    Cyclefree
    darkage
    DecrepiterJohnL
    dixiedean
    eek
    Endillion
    Flatlander
    Forlornehope
    Fysics_Teacher
    Gardenwalker
    GIN1138
    IanB2
    isam
    IshmaelZ
    JBriskin3
    JohnLilburne
    JonWC
    JosiasJessop
    kjh
    Leon
    londonpubman
    LostPassword
    Malmesbury
    MaxPB
    megalomaniacs4u
    Mexicanpete
    mickydroy
    MoonRabbit
    moonshine
    MrEd
    murali_s
    mwadams
    NerysHughes
    Nigel_Foremain
    Nigelb
    Northern_Al
    NorthofStoke
    Northstar
    OldKingCole
    Omnium
    OnlyLivingBoy
    Phil
    ping
    Pro_Rata
    Pulpstar
    RH1992
    Richard_Nabavi
    RochdalePioneers
    Roger
    rottenborough
    Sandpit
    SandyRentool
    Scott_xP
    Sean_F
    SeaShantyIrish2
    Selebian
    Slackbladder
    SouthamObserver
    Stark_Dawning
    StuartDickson
    Stuartinromford
    swing_voter
    TheScreamingEagles
    TheWhiteRabbit
    TimS
    tlg86
    TOPPING
    turbotubbs
    Cicero is a former LibDem Parliamentary candidate.

    I'm just mildly miffed to have been missed off.
    It's because of the puns
    It is a just punishment.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Roger said:

    Just watching the news. Even as an 'end of the pier show' people aren't laughing anymore.

    For people who like him it's probably quite sad

    What, both of them?
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,779
    @Farooq

    I wonder if you'll take all this info on, or hide for about a month!

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Farooq said:

    Looking at RedfieldWilton poll just now, it does not show the widescale condemnation of Boris as seen on here and this is post the rail infrastructure announcements

    Indeed he still leads preferred PM to Starmer by 41% to 32%

    Should we ask ourselves are we actually reflecting the country, though it has to be accepted the Paterson affair has damaged the conservative party and without which I believe they would lead the pols much as that did before it

    I would guess the voting intention of the regular contributers on this site would be 60% Labour, 20% Tory, 10% LD 10% others so not particularly representative.
    I'll let more knowledgeable people do the maths, but here's a list of contributors to this thread:
    You can chalk me down as a tentative SNP for VI. I've made a quick start on some others, apologies if I've misplaced anyone.

    >>confirmed / admitted:
    Farooq = SNP

    >>predicted by others:
    Big_G_NorthWales = Con
    CorrectHorseBattery = Lab
    Dura_Ace = Green
    HYUFD = Con
    kinabalu = Lab
    MikeSmithson = LDem
    NickPalmer = Lab
    Sunil_Prasannan = Con
    Theuniondivvie = SNP

    >>unassigned:
    AlistairM
    Andy_JS
    BannedinnParis
    BigRich
    Burgessian
    CarlottaVance
    Carnyx
    Cicero
    Cyclefree
    darkage
    DecrepiterJohnL
    dixiedean
    eek
    Endillion
    Flatlander
    Forlornehope
    Fysics_Teacher
    Gardenwalker
    GIN1138
    IanB2
    isam
    IshmaelZ
    JBriskin3
    JohnLilburne
    JonWC
    JosiasJessop
    kjh
    Leon
    londonpubman
    LostPassword
    Malmesbury
    MaxPB
    megalomaniacs4u
    Mexicanpete
    mickydroy
    MoonRabbit
    moonshine
    MrEd
    murali_s
    mwadams
    NerysHughes
    Nigel_Foremain
    Nigelb
    Northern_Al
    NorthofStoke
    Northstar
    OldKingCole
    Omnium
    OnlyLivingBoy
    Phil
    ping
    Pro_Rata
    Pulpstar
    RH1992
    Richard_Nabavi
    RochdalePioneers
    Roger
    rottenborough
    Sandpit
    SandyRentool
    Scott_xP
    Sean_F
    SeaShantyIrish2
    Selebian
    Slackbladder
    SouthamObserver
    Stark_Dawning
    StuartDickson
    Stuartinromford
    swing_voter
    TheScreamingEagles
    TheWhiteRabbit
    TimS
    tlg86
    TOPPING
    turbotubbs
    Cicero is a former LibDem Parliamentary candidate.

    I'm just mildly miffed to have been missed off.
    It's because of the puns
    It is a just punishment.
    I shall retire to punder my fate.
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,227
    edited November 2021

    Near 20 year old Guardian leader on "Paki Power" for @Leon
    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2002/jan/10/guardianleaders

    Written just after George Bush said he was "working hard to convince the Indians and the Pakis" to talk.
    https://youtu.be/YAHTdgogL9k?t=49

    Re Bush, I don't know its usage in the US but the issue with the word Paki in the UK are down to its legacy usage here in the 70s and 80s, its association with the National Front, violence and intimidation, and the lack of any connection to Pakistani, simply about having darker skin but not being black.

    Internationally, particularly if someone is distinguishing between India and Pakistan, I would initially assume the intent is no different to someone using Aussies.
    As the article says "Most Britons will instantly associate the word Paki with "bashing", with gangs of skinheads who beat up people because of the colour of their skin."

    Though I doubt the word has any such unfortunate association in the USA, I'm still pretty sure it was seen as, well, Bushly indelicate, and certainly undiplomatic.

    According to the wiki page of Paki as a slur it's not known as a slur in the US but it was complained about by a Pakistani American journalist, and a Clinton advisor had had to apologise for saying it four years earlier.

    It says the only other country where it's been commonly used as a slur is Canada.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    CD13 said:

    Mr Pointer,

    No problem. I'm disillusioned anyway.

    Moral for me is: don't jump into threads and comment on the last comment without reading the comment history.
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    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    The contempt. The entitlement. The hubris. It's quite something.

    EDIT: Him, I mean, Stocky, not you.
    Still not clear. Peppa Pig, or Boris?
    Well, Daddy Pig was always claiming he was a bit of an expert at stuff, before sadly finding that things were trickier than he thought.

    Remind you of anyone else?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,187

    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    The contempt. The entitlement. The hubris. It's quite something.

    EDIT: Him, I mean, Stocky, not you.
    Still not clear. Peppa Pig, or Boris?
    Peppa's a HER, Al, so it's clear who I'm talking about.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    tlg86 said:

    I’ve never had the chance to vote for my party of choice (OMRLP), so reluctantly I vote Tory.

    I might as well declare my interest as well. I voted OMRLP at the 2019 General Election, mainly because I know the candidate well enough to have a pint with him from time to time.

    I normally vote Tory in national elections, the exceptions being LibDem at the 1997 GE and Brexit at the 2019 Euro elections. In local elections, I switch between Tory and Lib Dem, depending on local issues.
    I'd cheerfully vote for them if they stood.

    Their policies are far saner than, say, the Integrated Rail Plan.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,174
    Roger said:

    Just watching the news. Even as an 'end of the pier show' people aren't laughing anymore.

    For people who like him it's probably quite sad

    BBC R4 PM were not interested in the Johnson speech until 5.31. The edit and the narrative was quite positive too. I suspect the BBC TV edits will also be favourable, although over on ITV Bradby will go to town on Johnson I expect.
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    @Farooq

    1997 - too young
    2001 - too drunk and stoned to remember
    2005 - LD
    2010 - LD (+campained for them)
    2015 - disenfanchised
    2017 - Still disenfranchised
    2019 - Con (tactical)

    I wish my reason for not voting in 2001 was exciting as that lol! :D
    It might not mean he didn't vote.

    I think it'd be more interesting if he did vote, but can't remember who for because he was too drunk and stoned!
  • Options
    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,854
    Evening all :)

    Having heard about the Prime Minister's "interesting" speech to the CBI, I'm trying to figure out what "Mother Nature does not like working from home" actually means.

    On a cold, dark late autumn morning, working at home seems a very attractive option - I suspect the Prime Minister may not have quite grasped Mother Nature's meaning.

    In Bulgaria, Radev won the Presidential election run off 67-32 so more convincing than an AV referendum (I mean, it's been more than a decade, why would anyone keep wittering on about it?)
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612

    Roger said:

    Just watching the news. Even as an 'end of the pier show' people aren't laughing anymore.

    For people who like him it's probably quite sad

    BBC R4 PM were not interested in the Johnson speech until 5.31. The edit and the narrative was quite positive too. I suspect the BBC TV edits will also be favourable, although over on ITV Bradby will go to town on Johnson I expect.
    Pretty excruciating on ITV news earlier.

    One problem is that TV is greedy for new material. He can get away with it as an after dinner speaker, as each audience is different but on TV we have seen those gags and gaffes before.
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    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    TEST - the green app isn't working for me.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817

    I've voted Labour in every general election since 1997, except for 2001 and 2010 when I was living abroad and didn't vote. The 2005, 2017 and 2019 votes weren't enthusiastic. 1997 was a night to remember though.

    What a night!

    Even BBC corridors were strewn with empty champagne bottles and party poppers... allegedly... ;)
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    Be honest, you're just sore about that last match, aren't you?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Anyone else unable to see comments on PB.com? Had to come to vanilla to see anything, PB.com just showing me a blank page where the comments should be.
  • Options

    Near 20 year old Guardian leader on "Paki Power" for @Leon
    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2002/jan/10/guardianleaders

    Written just after George Bush said he was "working hard to convince the Indians and the Pakis" to talk.
    https://youtu.be/YAHTdgogL9k?t=49

    Re Bush, I don't know its usage in the US but the issue with the word Paki in the UK are down to its legacy usage here in the 70s and 80s, its association with the National Front, violence and intimidation, and the lack of any connection to Pakistani, simply about having darker skin but not being black.

    Internationally, particularly if someone is distinguishing between India and Pakistan, I would initially assume the intent is no different to someone using Aussies.
    As the article says "Most Britons will instantly associate the word Paki with "bashing", with gangs of skinheads who beat up people because of the colour of their skin."

    Though I doubt the word has any such unfortunate association in the USA, I'm still pretty sure it was seen as, well, Bushly indelicate, and certainly undiplomatic.

    According to the wiki page of Paki as a slur it's not known as a slur in the US but it was complained about by a Pakistani American journalist, and a Clinton advisor had had to apologise for saying it four years earlier.

    It says the only other country where it's been commonly used as a slur is Canada.
    I'm probably one of the only three or four PBers who have have been called a Paki in this country, it's not a nice word in this country. In the same way I would never describe fans of Tottenham Hotspur as 'Yids' even though that's what plenty of them call themselves.

    Then again I remember shocking a few Americans when I used the word oriental (as in the Mandarin Oriental hotel), apparently that's a racial slur in America.

    Context is important in these things.
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Anyone else unable to see comments on PB.com? Had to come to vanilla to see anything, PB.com just showing me a blank page where the comments should be.

    Yes - I'm having the same prob
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    Be honest, you're just sore about that last match, aren't you?
    Nah, it is the years of abuse I've received from the Welsh, telling me to stick the sweet chariot where the sun doesn't shine is one of the nicer things they've said to me.

    Got worse since we won the world cup.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    JBriskin3 said:

    TEST - the green app isn't working for me.

    What's the 'green app'? I'm finding PB.com is not working for me.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817

    Anyone else unable to see comments on PB.com? Had to come to vanilla to see anything, PB.com just showing me a blank page where the comments should be.

    Yes same for me. I'm accessing through Vanilla! :D
  • Options

    Anyone else unable to see comments on PB.com? Had to come to vanilla to see anything, PB.com just showing me a blank page where the comments should be.

    Same.
  • Options
    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Anyone else unable to see comments on PB.com? Had to come to vanilla to see anything, PB.com just showing me a blank page where the comments should be.

    Same.
    Got to admire the resilience of PB though. Website not working? Well use the other website!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    He has clearly learned nothing from Kermit the Frog.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    Be honest, you're just sore about that last match, aren't you?
    Nah, it is the years of abuse I've received from the Welsh, telling me to stick the sweet chariot where the sun doesn't shine is one of the nicer things they've said to me.

    Got worse since we won the world cup.
    You lost the World Cup.

    Or are you referring to 2003?
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited November 2021

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
    Caring is sharing.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8QEWA8wGM
  • Options

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    One of the hopes of BM BoJo was that he would do the Prince Hal to King Henry thing. That the clueless bluffer act was an act, and once he had a huge majority, a great National Leader would emerge.

    As the months go by, it's increasingly hard to sustain that hope.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    Be honest, you're just sore about that last match, aren't you?
    Nah, it is the years of abuse I've received from the Welsh, telling me to stick the sweet chariot where the sun doesn't shine is one of the nicer things they've said to me.

    Got worse since we won the world cup.
    You lost the World Cup.

    Or are you referring to 2003?
    Yes things got worse since 2003.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Jonathan said:

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
    Some unfortunate examples there. Gladstone, who went out pulling, er, preaching to prostitutes. Macmillan, who wore a huge toy fur hat to visit Russia. Lloyd George who would famously shag absolutely anything female.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
    Caring is sharing.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8QEWA8wGM
    Except when not sharing is really caring.
  • Options

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
    2002 at Twickenham was where I saw the drunkest man ever.

    He was at the urinals, he took out what was his todger but was in fact the bottom of his shirt, and ended up pissing on himself, totally oblivious to what he was doing.

    Walked out, the front of his trousers and shoes absolutely drenched in piss and he didn't even know.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
    Some unfortunate examples there. Gladstone, who went out pulling, er, preaching to prostitutes. Macmillan, who wore a huge toy fur hat to visit Russia. Lloyd George who would famously shag absolutely anything female.
    Not saints, but serious grown up politicians,with something serious to say, taken seriously.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,983

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Young children don't inflict it on anyone. They would never have heard it had adults not introduced them to it in the first place.

  • Options
    Leon said:

    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?

    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’

    It came from the police.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7
  • Options
    BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,227
    edited November 2021

    Near 20 year old Guardian leader on "Paki Power" for @Leon
    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2002/jan/10/guardianleaders

    Written just after George Bush said he was "working hard to convince the Indians and the Pakis" to talk.
    https://youtu.be/YAHTdgogL9k?t=49

    Re Bush, I don't know its usage in the US but the issue with the word Paki in the UK are down to its legacy usage here in the 70s and 80s, its association with the National Front, violence and intimidation, and the lack of any connection to Pakistani, simply about having darker skin but not being black.

    Internationally, particularly if someone is distinguishing between India and Pakistan, I would initially assume the intent is no different to someone using Aussies.
    As the article says "Most Britons will instantly associate the word Paki with "bashing", with gangs of skinheads who beat up people because of the colour of their skin."

    Though I doubt the word has any such unfortunate association in the USA, I'm still pretty sure it was seen as, well, Bushly indelicate, and certainly undiplomatic.

    According to the wiki page of Paki as a slur it's not known as a slur in the US but it was complained about by a Pakistani American journalist, and a Clinton advisor had had to apologise for saying it four years earlier.

    It says the only other country where it's been commonly used as a slur is Canada.
    I'm probably one of the only three or four PBers who have have been called a Paki in this country, it's not a nice word in this country. In the same way I would never describe fans of Tottenham Hotspur as 'Yids' even though that's what plenty of them call themselves.

    Then again I remember shocking a few Americans when I used the word oriental (as in the Mandarin Oriental hotel), apparently that's a racial slur in America.

    Context is important in these things.
    I had an Indian boss who told me about when he'd been chased by "Paki bashing" skinheads in the 80s soon after moving here from India via college (Stanford, I think) in the USA, he said he was too quick to get bashed but it was a hell of a shock to discover that he was a Paki in England.

    Funnily enough the time I heard the word the most used was with him in a bar in Mumbai watching an ODI between India and Pakistan. Everyone was talking about the cricket and everyone I could hear talking in English would say "the Pakis" instead of Pakistan. It clearly wasn't meant offensively at all.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Leon said:

    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?

    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’

    It came from the police.
    In all senses, judging by the fact he was on bail and clearly shouldn't have been.

    A horrible tragedy that will only look worse if it turns out to have been an avoidable horrible tragedy.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
    2002 at Twickenham was where I saw the drunkest man ever.

    He was at the urinals, he took out what was his todger but was in fact the bottom of his shirt, and ended up pissing on himself, totally oblivious to what he was doing.

    Walked out, the front of his trousers and shoes absolutely drenched in piss and he didn't even know.
    Those bloody away fans, eh!
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    edited November 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    Fucksake, don't they get that it's Boris himself that is the problem?
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    It is not Boris's "top team" that is the problem.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    It is not Boris's "top team" that is the problem.
    Well, it is. He is part of his own top team.
  • Options

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
    2002 at Twickenham was where I saw the drunkest man ever.

    He was at the urinals, he took out what was his todger but was in fact the bottom of his shirt, and ended up pissing on himself, totally oblivious to what he was doing.

    Walked out, the front of his trousers and shoes absolutely drenched in piss and he didn't even know.
    Those bloody away fans, eh!
    Home fan, it was the South Africa match where we battered them 53-3 (I think)
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    one close ally of Johnson said fears over his standing in the Conservative party were growing.

    “I’m starting to get concerned,” added the Tory MP. “Supporters who were hitherto reliable are getting jittery.”


    https://www.ft.com/content/a702c1f8-fcc1-436d-afc0-37cf660e830d
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    Fucksake, don't they get that it's Boris himself that is the problem?
    Indeed, he's only just realised that governing is nothing like campaigning.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,375
    edited November 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?

    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’

    It came from the police.
    In all senses, judging by the fact he was on bail and clearly shouldn't have been.

    A horrible tragedy that will only look worse if it turns out to have been an avoidable horrible tragedy.
    If it was intentional, it might not have made much difference, apart from the timing and the particular people he killed. More concerning is the apparent globalisation of the "drive into a crowd" murder technique we've seen in France and Britain.
  • Options

    Near 20 year old Guardian leader on "Paki Power" for @Leon
    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2002/jan/10/guardianleaders

    Written just after George Bush said he was "working hard to convince the Indians and the Pakis" to talk.
    https://youtu.be/YAHTdgogL9k?t=49

    Re Bush, I don't know its usage in the US but the issue with the word Paki in the UK are down to its legacy usage here in the 70s and 80s, its association with the National Front, violence and intimidation, and the lack of any connection to Pakistani, simply about having darker skin but not being black.

    Internationally, particularly if someone is distinguishing between India and Pakistan, I would initially assume the intent is no different to someone using Aussies.
    As the article says "Most Britons will instantly associate the word Paki with "bashing", with gangs of skinheads who beat up people because of the colour of their skin."

    Though I doubt the word has any such unfortunate association in the USA, I'm still pretty sure it was seen as, well, Bushly indelicate, and certainly undiplomatic.

    According to the wiki page of Paki as a slur it's not known as a slur in the US but it was complained about by a Pakistani American journalist, and a Clinton advisor had had to apologise for saying it four years earlier.

    It says the only other country where it's been commonly used as a slur is Canada.
    I'm probably one of the only three or four PBers who have have been called a Paki in this country, it's not a nice word in this country. In the same way I would never describe fans of Tottenham Hotspur as 'Yids' even though that's what plenty of them call themselves.

    Then again I remember shocking a few Americans when I used the word oriental (as in the Mandarin Oriental hotel), apparently that's a racial slur in America.

    Context is important in these things.
    I had an Indian boss who told me about when he'd been chased by "Paki bashing" skinheads in the 80s soon after moving here from India via college (Stanford, I think) in the USA, he said he was too quick to get bashed but it was a hell of a shock to discover that he was a Paki in England.

    Funnily enough the time I heard the word the most used was with him in a bar in Mumbai watching an ODI between India and Pakistan. Everyone was talking about the cricket and everyone I could hear talking in English would say "the Pakis" instead of Pakistan. It clearly wasn't meant offensively at all.
    I have a recollection that I once heard Nasser Hussain refer to the opposing team as "The Pakis".
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,817
    edited November 2021
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
    Some unfortunate examples there. Gladstone, who went out pulling, er, preaching to prostitutes. Macmillan, who wore a huge toy fur hat to visit Russia. Lloyd George who would famously shag absolutely anything female.
    Yeah, I though that. Especially Lloyd George who was a really was an old rascal and a charlatan.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    Fucksake, don't they get that it's Boris himself that is the problem?
    Indeed, he's only just realised that governing is nothing like campaigning.
    When he eventually falls, no rate will be precipitous enough; no abyss too deep.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    Fucksake, don't they get that it's Boris himself that is the problem?
    It's always the king's advisers that are the problem. Or the wife.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
    2002 at Twickenham was where I saw the drunkest man ever.

    He was at the urinals, he took out what was his todger but was in fact the bottom of his shirt, and ended up pissing on himself, totally oblivious to what he was doing.

    Walked out, the front of his trousers and shoes absolutely drenched in piss and he didn't even know.
    Those bloody away fans, eh!
    Home fan, it was the South Africa match where we battered them 53-3 (I think)
    Yes, I remember it well can't remember it at all.

    (Although I did get very wet shoes that day for some reason.)
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,810
    Have we a website problem? Comments came up blank on two separate browsers & devices. So, I've hopped over to the vf.pb site to ask the question.
  • Options

    Anyone else unable to see comments on PB.com? Had to come to vanilla to see anything, PB.com just showing me a blank page where the comments should be.

    Same here!
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?

    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’

    It came from the police.
    In all senses, judging by the fact he was on bail and clearly shouldn't have been.

    A horrible tragedy that will only look worse if it turns out to have been an avoidable horrible tragedy.
    If it was intentional, it might not have made much difference, apart from the timing and the particular people he killed. More concerning is the apparent globalisation of the "drive into a crowd" murder technique we've seen in France and Britain.
    He overtook a lot of the marching bands, passing spectators, before striking some. If he was trying to kill then why dodge the first ones?

    I guess that we will find out in time.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,612

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
    2002 at Twickenham was where I saw the drunkest man ever.

    He was at the urinals, he took out what was his todger but was in fact the bottom of his shirt, and ended up pissing on himself, totally oblivious to what he was doing.

    Walked out, the front of his trousers and shoes absolutely drenched in piss and he didn't even know.
    Those bloody away fans, eh!
    Home fan, it was the South Africa match where we battered them 53-3 (I think)
    Yes, I remember it well can't remember it at all.

    (Although I did get very wet shoes that day for some reason.)
    Do you remember the day with warm feelings?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
    Caring is sharing.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8QEWA8wGM
    This link is a trap, don't ever, ever click it.
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    kinabalu said:

    Looking at RedfieldWilton poll just now, it does not show the widescale condemnation of Boris as seen on here and this is post the rail infrastructure announcements

    Indeed he still leads preferred PM to Starmer by 41% to 32%

    Should we ask ourselves are we actually reflecting the country, though it has to be accepted the Paterson affair has damaged the conservative party and without which I believe they would lead the pols much as that did before it

    I would guess the voting intention of the regular contributers on this site would be 60% Labour, 20% Tory, 10% LD 10% others so not particularly representative.
    Gosh. I'd put it at 10% Boris-Tory, 40% non-Boris Tory, 25% LD, 15% Labour, 10% others/undecided.
    Yes, there is absolutely no way that 60% of PB posters are voting Labour. It must be that Nerys is just noticing our posts a whole lot more.

    If 60% of PB vote Labour at the GE it'll be a majority of about 500.
    Yes, I'm struggling to find more than a handful of loyal Labour voters who post regularly on here, plus another handful who may flirt with Labour but probably won't get past first base when the showdown comes.

    Many of the current posters who berate this particular government are Tories at heart, aren't they?
    I have never voted Tory in my life

    In the 11 GEs I have voted in its 10 times LAB 1 time LD

    Next GE its anybody but LAB if SKS/ Evans are still in charge

    If Boris runs on more levelling up probably Tory any other Tory leader I will vote Green
    What's your problem with SKS? He's pretty crap but a huge improvement on Corbyn and his cabal of halfwits. Let's be honest, the Labour cupboard is pretty bare at the moment. Ed Milliband perhaps but he's a retread. The rest are pretty sh*te.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,288
    edited November 2021

    Near 20 year old Guardian leader on "Paki Power" for @Leon
    https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2002/jan/10/guardianleaders

    Written just after George Bush said he was "working hard to convince the Indians and the Pakis" to talk.
    https://youtu.be/YAHTdgogL9k?t=49

    Re Bush, I don't know its usage in the US but the issue with the word Paki in the UK are down to its legacy usage here in the 70s and 80s, its association with the National Front, violence and intimidation, and the lack of any connection to Pakistani, simply about having darker skin but not being black.

    Internationally, particularly if someone is distinguishing between India and Pakistan, I would initially assume the intent is no different to someone using Aussies.
    As the article says "Most Britons will instantly associate the word Paki with "bashing", with gangs of skinheads who beat up people because of the colour of their skin."

    Though I doubt the word has any such unfortunate association in the USA, I'm still pretty sure it was seen as, well, Bushly indelicate, and certainly undiplomatic.

    According to the wiki page of Paki as a slur it's not known as a slur in the US but it was complained about by a Pakistani American journalist, and a Clinton advisor had had to apologise for saying it four years earlier.

    It says the only other country where it's been commonly used as a slur is Canada.
    I'm probably one of the only three or four PBers who have have been called a Paki in this country, it's not a nice word in this country. In the same way I would never describe fans of Tottenham Hotspur as 'Yids' even though that's what plenty of them call themselves.

    Then again I remember shocking a few Americans when I used the word oriental (as in the Mandarin Oriental hotel), apparently that's a racial slur in America.

    Context is important in these things.
    Last time I was called a "Paki c***" was (of all places) on Magdalene Bridge in Cambridge one evening in 2005 when I was walking home from work. (I worked in Cambridge 2004 to 2007)
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Pro_Rata said:

    Have we a website problem? Comments came up blank on two separate browsers & devices. So, I've hopped over to the vf.pb site to ask the question.

    Yes. Several of us have done the same.
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,375
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?

    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’

    It came from the police.
    In all senses, judging by the fact he was on bail and clearly shouldn't have been.

    A horrible tragedy that will only look worse if it turns out to have been an avoidable horrible tragedy.
    If it was intentional, it might not have made much difference, apart from the timing and the particular people he killed. More concerning is the apparent globalisation of the "drive into a crowd" murder technique we've seen in France and Britain.
    He overtook a lot of the marching bands, passing spectators, before striking some. If he was trying to kill then why dodge the first ones?

    I guess that we will find out in time.

    I suppose that driving past a lot of the parade is why police thought he might be trying to escape from some other crime. We might never find out, even assuming there is a rational explanation.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
    Some unfortunate examples there. Gladstone, who went out pulling, er, preaching to prostitutes. Macmillan, who wore a huge toy fur hat to visit Russia. Lloyd George who would famously shag absolutely anything female.
    Yeah, I though that. Especially Lloyd George who was a really was an old rascal and a charlatan.
    And yet dealt with World War 1. The point is now to claim previous PMs were virtuous or to endorse their private lives. It is to say that the job of PM use to matter and was worth taking seriously.

    The current incumbent treats it as a bit of a laugh, like a warm up act for a headline act that never a comes.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Foxy said:

    I keep on telling you the Welsh rugby union fans are savages, further proof, although this applies to the Welsh as a whole.

    Drunk Wales fan vomits on six-year-old boy leaving him 'in floods of tears'

    Officials admit to concerns about levels of drunkenness, making alcohol bans a future possibility


    A young Wales rugby supporter attending his first match was left traumatised after a drunk fan vomited on him during Saturday's game against Australia.

    Six-year-old supporter Joey was sitting with his parents in the upper tier of the Principality Stadium when he was vomited on by a supporter in the seats behind him, covering the young boy's back, his coat and the floor and leaving Joey in "floods of tears".

    Joey's mother, Sophie Delaney, told the BBC that the drunk fan did not say a word afterwards and appeared unaware of what they had done, adding that the supporter was "slumped over his seat and obviously very, very drunk".

    The incident was referred to matchday stewards with the Welsh Rugby Union now investigating the steward's report.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2021/11/22/drunk-wales-fan-vomits-six-year-old-boy-leaving-traumatised/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    It was noticeably 'larier' than normal at Twickenham for the England Australia game the Saturday before last. A lot of people seemed to be so drunk they couldn't really follow the match. I assumed it was the late kick-off but who knows.
    2002 at Twickenham was where I saw the drunkest man ever.

    He was at the urinals, he took out what was his todger but was in fact the bottom of his shirt, and ended up pissing on himself, totally oblivious to what he was doing.

    Walked out, the front of his trousers and shoes absolutely drenched in piss and he didn't even know.
    Those bloody away fans, eh!
    Home fan, it was the South Africa match where we battered them 53-3 (I think)
    Yes, I remember it well can't remember it at all.

    (Although I did get very wet shoes that day for some reason.)
    Do you remember the day with warm feelings?
    I just remember being surprised by @TSE staring at my... shirt tail.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150
    Some weird problemette with PB on Chrome? Doesn't load
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16811862/bulb-collapse-how-affects-you-customer-know/amp/

    There will be no change to tariffs and the energy price cap will still apply to bills.

    Does this mean that fixed rate deals will be honoured? I bloody well hope not.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667

    kinabalu said:

    Looking at RedfieldWilton poll just now, it does not show the widescale condemnation of Boris as seen on here and this is post the rail infrastructure announcements

    Indeed he still leads preferred PM to Starmer by 41% to 32%

    Should we ask ourselves are we actually reflecting the country, though it has to be accepted the Paterson affair has damaged the conservative party and without which I believe they would lead the pols much as that did before it

    I would guess the voting intention of the regular contributers on this site would be 60% Labour, 20% Tory, 10% LD 10% others so not particularly representative.
    Gosh. I'd put it at 10% Boris-Tory, 40% non-Boris Tory, 25% LD, 15% Labour, 10% others/undecided.
    Yes, there is absolutely no way that 60% of PB posters are voting Labour. It must be that Nerys is just noticing our posts a whole lot more.

    If 60% of PB vote Labour at the GE it'll be a majority of about 500.
    Yes, I'm struggling to find more than a handful of loyal Labour voters who post regularly on here, plus another handful who may flirt with Labour but probably won't get past first base when the showdown comes.

    Many of the current posters who berate this particular government are Tories at heart, aren't they?
    I have never voted Tory in my life

    In the 11 GEs I have voted in its 10 times LAB 1 time LD

    Next GE its anybody but LAB if SKS/ Evans are still in charge

    If Boris runs on more levelling up probably Tory any other Tory leader I will vote Green
    Mate, if you think Boris is going to do any 'levelling up' you are being way beyond niave. What he runs on is irrelevant.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Leon said:

    Some weird problemette with PB on Chrome? Doesn't load

    It's just PB.com. We're vanilla-only for the moment.

    Someone paging @rcs1000 ?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,979
    Leon said:

    Some weird problemette with PB on Chrome? Doesn't load

    Its's also an issue in Firefox - something is definitely wrong at Vanilla's end...
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16811862/bulb-collapse-how-affects-you-customer-know/amp/

    There will be no change to tariffs and the energy price cap will still apply to bills.

    Does this mean that fixed rate deals will be honoured? I bloody well hope not.

    Our PFP one certainly wasn't when they wnet bust and we were switched to British Gas - 90% increase!

    So no, they won't be (or else I'll be suing someone).
  • Options
    I've heard Boris was told he was giving a speech on CBeebies today.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,667
    Jonathan said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
    Some unfortunate examples there. Gladstone, who went out pulling, er, preaching to prostitutes. Macmillan, who wore a huge toy fur hat to visit Russia. Lloyd George who would famously shag absolutely anything female.
    Yeah, I though that. Especially Lloyd George who was a really was an old rascal and a charlatan.
    And yet dealt with World War 1. The point is now to claim previous PMs were virtuous or to endorse their private lives. It is to say that the job of PM use to matter and was worth taking seriously.

    The current incumbent treats it as a bit of a laugh, like a warm up act for a headline act that never a comes.
    He's been allowed to spend his whole life succeeding as the classroom clown. He knows no other mode and is capable of none.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Young children don't inflict it on anyone. They would never have heard it had adults not introduced them to it in the first place.

    You clearly have no idea of the torture of enforced repetition.
    For me it was Postman Pat, whose name can still, two decades on, reduced me to a quivering jelly.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,942
    PM has just done Peppa Pig World again, in a speech at the Margaret Thatcher conference on trade at @CPSThinkTank https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1462883599238246403/photo/1
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/16811862/bulb-collapse-how-affects-you-customer-know/amp/

    There will be no change to tariffs and the energy price cap will still apply to bills.

    Does this mean that fixed rate deals will be honoured? I bloody well hope not.

    I think Bulb only had a single variable tariff; their prices bounced up and down quite a bit in response to market changes. (I was with them for the relatively green gas.) It was one of the things that made them a bit more robust than the first round of suppliers that went to the wall. But if the cap is lower then the market rate, then they're stuffed.

    But if they're stuffed, who isn't?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
    Caring is sharing.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8QEWA8wGM
    This link is a trap, don't ever, ever click it.
    Rickroll me once, shame on you...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Leon said:

    Some weird problemette with PB on Chrome? Doesn't load

    It's just PB.com. We're vanilla-only for the moment.

    Someone paging @rcs1000 ?
    For me it's been vanilla only for a couple of years now.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150

    Leon said:

    The ‘fleeing a crime scene’ narrative didn’t last long. Where did it come from?

    ‘JUST IN - Darrell Brooks intentionally drove his vehicle into the Christmas parade in #Waukesha and is charged with 5 counts of intentional homicide, according to the police.’

    It came from the police.
    Did it? Not sure. It's very opaque

    CNN were trotting out the "not terrorism, not related to Rittenhouse" narrative as soon as they could

    And it all feels like premature lies now

    Who do you believe if the mainstream media simply lie? This is why Fake News grows on both extremes. Democracy is fucked by social media: discuss
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    Fucksake, don't they get that it's Boris himself that is the problem?
    Indeed, he's only just realised that governing is nothing like campaigning.
    When he eventually falls, no rate will be precipitous enough; no abyss too deep.
    Marvin Gaye ?
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
    Caring is sharing.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8QEWA8wGM
    This link is a trap, don't ever, ever click it.
    Rickroll me once, shame on you...
    It was no Rickroll.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,744
    Scott_xP said:

    PM has just done Peppa Pig World again, in a speech at the Margaret Thatcher conference on trade at @CPSThinkTank https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1462883599238246403/photo/1

    That seems like a deliberate ploy to distract people's google results for Boris Johnson in that case.
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Young children don't inflict it on anyone. They would never have heard it had adults not introduced them to it in the first place.

    You clearly have no idea of the torture of enforced repetition.
    For me it was Postman Pat, whose name can still, two decades on, reduced me to a quivering jelly.
    Legitimately has been used as a form of torture, if memory serves.
  • Options
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Senior Tories demand shake-up of Johnson’s top team https://on.ft.com/3HHPtn7

    Fucksake, don't they get that it's Boris himself that is the problem?
    Indeed, he's only just realised that governing is nothing like campaigning.
    When he eventually falls, no rate will be precipitous enough; no abyss too deep.
    Marvin Gaye ?
    With Liz Truss as Tammi Terrell?

    Ain't no mountain high enough...
    To keep me from pushing you off it
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,150
    edited November 2021

    Jonathan said:

    Notable about the "hands up if you've been to Peppa Pig World" segment of the PM's speech to the CBI (fuxsake...). He was lost again. Pages being sifted through. Winging it. Again.

    This isn't Labour vs Tory. This is what image you are supposed to have as Prime Minister.

    Disraeli
    Gladstone
    Lloyd George
    Churchill
    Macmillan
    Wilson
    Thatcher
    Blair

    Now some bumbling fool blathering on about Peppa Pig.

    We used to matter as a country. It used to matter who was PM, what they did and how they did it.
    Forget the greats. Let's consider the disappointments we have recently had as PM.

    May. She couldn't take her party with her, but she was prepared to stand there and take the abuse to try to promote her vision of the future. And if we're honest, her vision was more coherent and better than that of the incumbent.

    Cameron. Made one epoch-defining mistake, but open to working with others, able to speak without notes, willing to work through the essay crisis.

    Brown. At some level mad, and deliberately chose to ignore some red flashing elephants in the room. But clearly clever and on top of stuff.

    Major. Had the misfortune to hold the exploding parcel when the music stopped. But got more done than you might think, and the epitome of decently keeping buggering on.

    None of them great PMs. But I'd have any of them back in a heartbeat, because the incumbent is just painful to watch.
    Boris is better than all of those. He wins. He would never make such a major fuck up as:

    1. May. Social care, nearly losing to Corbyn, NI backstop, eating chips

    2. Cameron's EU referendum, OMFG

    3. Brown. Botched election call, the endless stupid Blair feud

    4. Major. Being a europhile twat again and again and, still, again


    I'm quite serious. Boris has already proven himself a better PM than any of them by winning as mayor twice, winning the referendum, winning the election (with a huge majority), winning the vaccine race, and, it looks like - God willing - winning the Freedom Day Handicap and taking the risk on a summer opening

    Boris is a risk taker. A selfish, shambolic wanker of a risk taker, but a risk taker. And he wins. That. in politics and life, counts for a LOT, as Napoleon noted
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586

    Nigelb said:

    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Stocky said:

    What fresh hell have I missed today

    Peppa Pig
    I had to watch an episode once.
    I have some sympathy for those with young children... even Boris.
    The Baby Shark song is the worst thing young children inflict on us.
    Thankfully I have no idea what you're on about.
    Caring is sharing.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w8QEWA8wGM
    This link is a trap, don't ever, ever click it.
    Rickroll me once, shame on you...
    It was no Rickroll.
    Though somehow I have no desire to click on that link.
    Post Postman Pat trauma is quite enough for me.
This discussion has been closed.