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EX-PBER DAVID HERDSON JOINS THE YORKSHIRE PARTY – politicalbetting.com

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  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,085
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    In my far off, misspent youth I heard the N-word fairly frequently at school in my small, rural-industrial hometown in West Virginia. Despite the near-total absence of Black people, just one woman, a doctor's maid who I never actually saw.

    BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.

    Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.

    In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?

    Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.

    We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)

    This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.
    Actually, he didn’t confess. He was found out. Had he confessed to the select committee that he’d made such comments when he was younger, he’d look incredibly virtuous. But he didn’t.
    Whatever individuals may have said/written in public/private or not, Yorkshire Cricket has still got a long way to go and blaming the whistleblower as a tactic is never good.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 27,117

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    In my far off, misspent youth I heard the N-word fairly frequently at school in my small, rural-industrial hometown in West Virginia. Despite the near-total absence of Black people, just one woman, a doctor's maid who I never actually saw.

    BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.

    Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.

    In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?

    Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.

    We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)

    This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.
    He was a senior player at the club. He was captain of their junior sides. From the usage in the tweets, this was language that he could easily slip into. If there was institutionalised racism and bullying at that time, then the chances are he was as much part of it as those he complained about. I think the tweets he got the ban for a month against the coach highlight that well.

    It's a shame he didn't feel fit to bring the subject of his ban up front of the committee (I don't think he did?). It would have led to a question about why abuse of the coach was seen as worthy of a ban by the ECB, yet what went on later was ignored. But he was silent.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 21,270

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    In my far off, misspent youth I heard the N-word fairly frequently at school in my small, rural-industrial hometown in West Virginia. Despite the near-total absence of Black people, just one woman, a doctor's maid who I never actually saw.

    BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.

    Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.

    In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?

    Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.

    We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)

    This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.
    He was a senior player at the club. He was captain of their junior sides. From the usage in the tweets, this was language that he could easily slip into. If there was institutionalised racism and bullying at that time, then the chances are he was as much part of it as those he complained about. I think the tweets he got the ban for a month against the coach highlight that well.

    It's a shame he didn't feel fit to bring the subject of his ban up front of the committee (I don't think he did?). It would have led to a question about why abuse of the coach was seen as worthy of a ban by the ECB, yet what went on later was ignored. But he was silent.
    Sky News went as far as to say that the rafiq racism is further proof that YCCC has/has a problem with racism. I thought that was a bit of a stretch of logic.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 57,752
    edited November 2021
    Good morning, everyone.

    I must fundamentally disagree with this desire to slice England into pieces... only just got up so don't really want to type an essay right now, but my views on this are pretty well-known to people who have been here a while.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,937
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    If they do actually electrify the whole of the MML, then it wouldn’t take much to infill the bits around it.

    They said that about the Chase Line and it wasn't true.
    You mean in the 1960s? It is now electrified.
    I'm aware of that, I live in Cannock fifty yards from the fecking tracks and travel on it frequently.

    I also remember that the 'wouldn't take much to electrify it' we were promised turned out to take two years longer than expected and ended up 75% over budget. Which were two rather unpleasant years for those of us who used the railway.

    And at the end of it, because of the appalling congestion of the WCML from Rugby to Euston the London service we were promised lasted only 18 months.

    Which may be a thread header on the reasons why these so called plans are a pack of lies put together by total retards who don't have a clue about just about anything, including railways or basic things like mathematics.

    Anyway, I have a busy day tomorrow. Good night.
    Well you should get a direct service once the London Brum line is completed. :)
    Sigh. You have again completely missed the point.

    I am fully aware of that, and my understanding of how capacity constraints affect much more than the spine network is one reason why I am in favour of HS2.

    But electrifying local lines, which Network Rail finds very difficult and does badly, won’t help if there is no capacity for those trains on the main line. And on these plans capacity on the MML would be significantly reduced.

    So on the basis of Cannock’s experience I am saying that your claims are completely wrong and this is a disaster for local services in the area from Nottingham to Sheffield.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,937
    edited November 2021
    pigeon said:


    George Eaton
    @georgeeaton
    ·
    7h
    Just *0.7%* of the UK's rail network is high-speed – today's
    @NewStatesman
    Chart of the Day on how Britain trails behind Europe for high-speed rail. https://newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2021/11/how-the-uk-trails-behind-europe-for-high-speed-rail

    Three reasons:

    1. Britain is small: a bog-standard inter city service will get you between almost all the main population centres in a fairly reasonable time (if you're lucky enough to pick a day when it's working properly, that is)
    2. Britain is hopeless at infrastructure projects and has been for at least the last hundred years: they're typically very late, vastly over budget, and often both
    3. Most crucially, Britain is absolutely full from top to bottom with nimbies. The Government can't even defend by-elections in the wealthier parts of Buckinghamshire, so deep and visceral is the loathing felt for HS2 by the locals

    All that having been said, there's a good argument to be made for throwing the entire project in the dustbin and delivering line upgrades across the North at a fraction of the price. One wonders how much the decision not to do this (or, at most, finish the half-constructed line from London to Birmingham and stop at that) has to do with the appalling optics of not bothering to plumb the North into the system at all, and how much is actually down to the sunk costs fallacy.
    They have already started building the line north of Birmingham as well.

    PS - HS2 is an upgrade to the network and without it there is nowhere for trains on other upgraded lines to run.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,523
    edited November 2021
    Wasn’t Sheffield supposedly a winner from yesterdays review? Well this is the local paper

    image
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,937
    eek said:

    Wasn’t Sheffield supposedly a winner from yesterdays review? Well this is the local paper

    image

    There were no winners in yesterday’s review. Yorkshire and North East are the big losers. Unfortunately for Johnson given they are not as stupid as Shapps or Mogg they have realised this.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,260
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    And because the institution refused to accept anything needed changing (which is Rafiq's main point).
    I was at school in the 70s, and casual racism was not at all uncommon. I can't recall anyone using the racist 'Jew' stereotype either.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,246
    Senior Conservative MPs, regional leaders and industry figures have accused ministers of betraying the north with a delayed and downgraded £96bn rail plan…experts poured doubt on the idea of rapid progress, warning of delays and disruption for commuters after longstanding plans were ripped up. Boris Johnson was accused of reneging on commitments to level up.

    Tory MPs were among furious critics in the Commons on Thursday. Huw Merriman, who chairs the Commons transport select committee, suggested Johnson was “selling perpetual sunlight and then leaving it to others to explain the arrival of moonlight”.

    Keighley’s Robbie Moore, one of the 2019 intake of red wall Tories, said he was bitterly disappointed that his region had been “left completely shortchanged”, telling ministers: “We need to do much, much more.”

    Kevin Hollinrake, MP for Thirsk and Malton in North Yorkshire, said a new station in Bradford would have given the city “a King’s Cross-style regeneration opportunity [but instead] the economic price will be paid for generations”.

    Sir Edward Leigh, MP for Gainsborough, said the north-east had “heard these promises again and again” to improve rail lines. While HS2 was a white elephant, it was now “a white elephant missing a leg”, he added. Philip Davies, MP for Shipley, called the U-turn a “massively missed opportunity”.

    Regional Tory leaders expressed similar frustration. Martyn Cox, leader of Bolton council, signed a letter to Johnson organised by the West Yorkshire mayor, Tracy Brabin, that said the scaling back of NPR was “contrary to your ambition to ‘level-up’ the north” and “runs the risk of holding back our regional economies and compromising our plans to cut carbon emissions”. Ben Houchen, the Tees Valley mayor, said without the eastern leg of HS2, the whole project was now “a waste of money and should be scrapped”.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,260
    edited November 2021

    Good morning, everyone.

    I must fundamentally disagree with this desire to slice England into pieces... only just got up so don't really want to type an essay right now, but my views on this are pretty well-known to people who have been here a while.

    I think it would be wrong to characterise David's move in that way. I take it more as being forced by utter despair with the national party rather than a 'desire to slice England into pieces'.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,246
    edited November 2021
    Katy Balls: When Johnson addressed MPs at the 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers last night, the unease in the party was clear. The prime minister’s voice barely held out as he offered what one MP describes as a half apology – telling colleagues he crashed “the car into a ditch” but that he would get it out.

    “He kept trying to crack jokes but most of us have heard them before and were not laughing,” says a senior Tory. “The joke is wearing thin.” When he said “we got Brexit done” – normally one of his most reliable applause lines – only a handful of MPs cheered.

    The question MPs are starting to ask is: who is in charge? In the past week, MPs have started trying to work out who exactly does what in Downing Street. Finding answers isn’t easy.

    What all this points to is the fact that Johnson’s authority is diminished. MPs – particularly the new intake – had been broadly happy until now to take the prime minister at his word and presume that, as an election winner, his calls are the right ones. This is beginning to change.
  • ydoethur said:
    Always knew he was a wrong 'un and would bring pain to Australia.
  • Mr. B, it was more a comment on the Yorkshire Party itself.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,937
    edited November 2021

    ydoethur said:
    Always knew he was a wrong 'un and would bring pain to Australia.
    Turns out there was a reason his fingers were crooked?

    Terrible news for England though. Cummins as captain and Carey as keeper and the Aussies look a much more formidable side.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,472
    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    Always knew he was a wrong 'un and would bring pain to Australia.
    Turns out there was a reason his fingers were crooked?

    Terrible news for England though. Cummins as captain and Carey as keeper and the Aussies look a much more formidable side.
    Yup but we were going to lose anyway, just hoping to avoid a 5 nil.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,058
    Good morning everyone. Looks a s though the (wether) clouds might break at some point today, although they seem to be rolling in from all directions in other matters.
    I don't think I've ever posted anything anywhere that might cause trouble for me, although I don't think anyone outside my family would care!
    There are advantages in being 'one of the ordinary'
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,960
    edited November 2021
    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,960
    More contributions from @Eabhal please. Now you're in stay and chat.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 3,444

    Good morning everyone. Looks a s though the (wether) clouds might break at some point today, although they seem to be rolling in from all directions in other matters.
    I don't think I've ever posted anything anywhere that might cause trouble for me, although I don't think anyone outside my family would care!
    There are advantages in being 'one of the ordinary'

    The blessed joys of anonymity.

    When I think of the thousands (tens of thousands?) of instant messages I’ve sent in my life, there’s bound to be a treasure trove of out of context (and sometimes in context) comments for the tabloids if I were ever in the public eye. Same for most people under 45 I think.

    Which is why society needs to grow up a little bit and better differentiate between thought crimes that have no consequence and public utterances and actions that do. Rafiq has highlighted well that we all need to be more generous in how we treat each other.
  • TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 17,633
    edited November 2021
    I experienced casual anti semitism at school including holocaust references etc. Kids will be kids…
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 44,937

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    Always knew he was a wrong 'un and would bring pain to Australia.
    Turns out there was a reason his fingers were crooked?

    Terrible news for England though. Cummins as captain and Carey as keeper and the Aussies look a much more formidable side.
    Yup but we were going to lose anyway, just hoping to avoid a 5 nil.
    I'm thinking not losing 6-0 with the Aussies being given retrospective bonus points because all their five wins were by more than an innings and 500 runs is the first target.

    Anything else is gravy.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,058
    Apparently Sir Alistair Cook is now being criticised in the Torygraph because he won't give an interview about racism.
    Although it's behind a paywall so I can't read the whole article.
  • At my school I think casual homophobia was far more common than casual racism. Anything uncool was "gay".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 28,798
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    And because the institution refused to accept anything needed changing (which is Rafiq's main point).
    I was at school in the 70s, and casual racism was not at all uncommon. I can't recall anyone using the racist 'Jew' stereotype either.
    It was widely used the way @rcs1000 describes at my high school in Atlanta, where there were a significant number of Jews. I never heard it used that way in my British schools, though plenty of other racist, homophobic and misogynistic terms were commonly used, with intent varying from jokes to bullying.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,523

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
  • eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    So browsing the internet and reading PB.com would be legal?

    Certainly wasn't my understanding of the law. I thought all actions on the phone were illegal, which kind of makes controlling phone-based Satnavs a bit murky (that's the only thing I'll touch my phone while driving for).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,960
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    It's a shame. I like to play Fortnite on the A1(M) and Tetris on the B1174.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,472
    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,058

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    So browsing the internet and reading PB.com would be legal?

    Certainly wasn't my understanding of the law. I thought all actions on the phone were illegal, which kind of makes controlling phone-based Satnavs a bit murky (that's the only thing I'll touch my phone while driving for).
    Quite. We can couple our phone to an 'infotainment' device in the car and use that as the satnav.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 5,530

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    So browsing the internet and reading PB.com would be legal?

    Certainly wasn't my understanding of the law. I thought all actions on the phone were illegal, which kind of makes controlling phone-based Satnavs a bit murky (that's the only thing I'll touch my phone while driving for).
    R5 had something about interactivity. So browsing the internet was always a no, but taking a photo was allowed (or not explicitly banned). And choosing music from a playlist was not specifically banned.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,605
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    It's a shame. I like to play Fortnite on the A1(M) and Tetris on the B1174.
    Is the driver still allowed to hit someone when playing the Yellow Car game?

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 682
    "Gay" was still used widely when I was at school, but teacher friends say that's no longer the case.

    Anyone who has played Fifa will have used "Jew goal" too. I regret it now.
  • algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    It's a shame. I like to play Fortnite on the A1(M) and Tetris on the B1174.
    Is the driver still allowed to hit someone when playing the Yellow Car game?

    Wow your yellow car game involves violence! It's a much more peaceful, albeit still highly competitive, activity in our car. Mind you, we also attempt to harmonise to the "cloudy to clear" adverts on Magic so are clearly an odd family.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,960
    I think the playlist restriction will be the one most required to get people not to touch their phones while driving.

    Although still plenty of fumbling to switch channels on car radios.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,472
    I started going through the transcript of the Grant Shapps interview @skynewsniall just did and... err... adding a few bit in red... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461602580493127680/photo/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 38,246
    TOPPING said:

    I think the playlist restriction will be the one most required to get people not to touch their phones while driving.

    Although still plenty of fumbling to switch channels on car radios.

    Yes, there's an illogic with allowing people to do lots of stuff provided their phone is cradled, or if it is fitted to the car. My brother's Tesla has this massive laptop-sized touch screen facing the driver that you could happily spend hours fiddling with, were it not for the need to glance out of the window now and again to see where you are going.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 4,793
    I'm struggling with the blacking up issue. There are clearly times when it's offensive, but dressing up as a known character or person for a fancy dress party, why is that offensive? If I dress up as Billy Bunter is that anti fat, if I dress up as Humpty Dumpty is that anti egg?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,728
    Morning all.

    Looks like the wet market after all for covid:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4454
  • Scott_xP said:

    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1

    This is the utter stupidity from the government - and frankly from their few remaining PB Parrots. You can't say "this plan is quicker" when then plan says it isn't. You can't say "this plan prioritises regional connectivity" when the plan leaves whole sections out completely, relegates others to a future study and the rest remains subject to both a viable business case and then treasury approval.

    People are not stupid.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 47,811
    edited November 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
  • Mr. Pioneers, some people are stupid. Unfortunately, that includes the person in Number 10.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,082
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:
    Always knew he was a wrong 'un and would bring pain to Australia.
    Turns out there was a reason his fingers were crooked?

    Terrible news for England though. Cummins as captain and Carey as keeper and the Aussies look a much more formidable side.
    Yup but we were going to lose anyway, just hoping to avoid a 5 nil.
    I'm thinking not losing 6-0 with the Aussies being given retrospective bonus points because all their five wins were by more than an innings and 500 runs is the first target.

    Anything else is gravy.
    Nah, it is going to be like that tour in the mid to late eighties where we were expected to do nothing and won handsomely. Broad got a few tons IIRC.
  • Eabhal said:

    "Gay" was still used widely when I was at school, but teacher friends say that's no longer the case.

    Anyone who has played Fifa will have used "Jew goal" too. I regret it now.

    I remember being on our school (brass) band coach on our way to a gig in London going through Golders Green. We were winding up one of the boys about bagels - not because he was Jewish but because he *looked* Jewish. Frankly I am not sure I had ever even eaten a bagel at that point.

    At that age a lot of terms and words and phrases get thrown about because someone has heard them. They might not know what they mean, or if they do won't get the wider context. But its cool to be in so the words get used.

    As a very leftfield example, that South Park episode World Wide Recorder Concert (where they play the brown note and make the world crap itself). These New Yorker kids start calling the South Park kids "Queef" and "Mung" and then laugh at them because they have no idea what it means. Of course Stan etc then say they do know and start using the same...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,085
    edited November 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    What I don’t understand is how anyone buys the latest promise from this government. The idea that this government won’t roll back further and this is now the one true plan is absurd.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 4,605
    kjh said:

    I'm struggling with the blacking up issue. There are clearly times when it's offensive, but dressing up as a known character or person for a fancy dress party, why is that offensive? If I dress up as Billy Bunter is that anti fat, if I dress up as Humpty Dumpty is that anti egg?

    You will continue to struggle. That is what you are meant to do. It is hard for democratic rational freedom loving liberals to set rules that are clear and equally applied. The idea that clear and equal rules can be established by an alliance of the grievance industry, the mob and wokery is fanciful.

    It is important for us little people to understand that anything you say or so can put you in the wrong, and that silence and inaction is complicity with racism and fascism.

  • Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    They haven't scrapped it. HS2 East still exists even though they have decided not to build it.

    What does that mean? The people who protested against it because it went through their land / houses are still blighted. The land remains safeguarded, the houses remain worthless, their lives remain ruined.

    Vote Conservative!
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,082

    Eabhal said:

    "Gay" was still used widely when I was at school, but teacher friends say that's no longer the case.

    Anyone who has played Fifa will have used "Jew goal" too. I regret it now.

    I remember being on our school (brass) band coach on our way to a gig in London going through Golders Green. We were winding up one of the boys about bagels - not because he was Jewish but because he *looked* Jewish. Frankly I am not sure I had ever even eaten a bagel at that point.

    At that age a lot of terms and words and phrases get thrown about because someone has heard them. They might not know what they mean, or if they do won't get the wider context. But its cool to be in so the words get used.

    As a very leftfield example, that South Park episode World Wide Recorder Concert (where they play the brown note and make the world crap itself). These New Yorker kids start calling the South Park kids "Queef" and "Mung" and then laugh at them because they have no idea what it means. Of course Stan etc then say they do know and start using the same...
    Mung is a type of bean as far as I am aware. Queef !!!!!!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 18,472
    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,728

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    Doesn't mean anything. DM has just gone very right wing. Changed editor. Of course "the sun shines out of Boris's fundament".

    Next editorial will be: "When is Boris going to lift the restrictions on baby-eating?"
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,848
    Carnyx said:

    Morning all.

    Looks like the wet market after all for covid:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4454

    meh. All about competing dates in December and there's stacks of evidence it was around well before then

    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/coronavirus-italy-covid-19-pandemic-europe-date-antibodies-study/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,260

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1

    This is the utter stupidity from the government - and frankly from their few remaining PB Parrots. You can't say "this plan is quicker" when then plan says it isn't. You can't say "this plan prioritises regional connectivity" when the plan leaves whole sections out completely, relegates others to a future study and the rest remains subject to both a viable business case and then treasury approval.

    People are not stupid.
    The basic fact is that the revised plan does absolutely nothing to improve capacity between Leeds/Manchester or Leeds/Sheffield - two of the most congested sections of the network.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't know who David Herdson is, but I fully support his right to totally waste his vote.

    That's what the kind ones used to say about the SNP. I'm not so sure that the events of the last few days haven't put the collar on the whippet for a lot of Yorkshire folk.
    They are getting a taste of what Scotland gets every day and finding they don't like it, perhaps they will not be so dismissive of Scotland in future.
  • I experienced casual anti semitism at school including holocaust references etc. Kids will be kids…

    There was a German boy at the school I went to. He had to put up with references to Germany in WW2 for his entire time there including from his good friends. From my recollection (30 years ago now) it was all good natured but looking back it must have been difficult for him. Kids being kids.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 11,848
    kjh said:

    I'm struggling with the blacking up issue. There are clearly times when it's offensive, but dressing up as a known character or person for a fancy dress party, why is that offensive? If I dress up as Billy Bunter is that anti fat, if I dress up as Humpty Dumpty is that anti egg?

    It isn't. Otoh if you want to black up because lol black people, the obvious cover story is you were dressing up as Othello. The bloke in question also had a black dog, coincidentally called Kevin. Coincidentally.
  • At my school I think casual homophobia was far more common than casual racism. Anything uncool was "gay".

    This was very much the case when I was at school in the 1990s. I don't think anyone gave it too much thought at the time. It became just a word to describe something that wasn't cool but obviously now it would not be acceptable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Bit of a twist in the tale..

    Say it isn't so
    No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
    A good apology too.

    There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
    Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
    No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.

    You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
    The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.

    These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.

    How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
    For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
    IMV it does have bearing. It shows that the problems with racism might be (ahem) more multi-faceted than he was willing to share. Racism may not just be a problem towards people from the India/Pakistan region, or Muslims, but towards other groups as well.

    That's important.

    It also shows he's somewhat hypocritical, and perhaps not the most reliable witness to events.
    It shows he is an arsehole of the worst kind , an out and out racist whining about people being racist towards him. He is obviously extremely stupid to boot in thinking that it would not come out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,512
    TOPPING said:

    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    I didn't realise he was still alive news announcement of the day: playing games on mobile phones while driving to be banned.

    Isn't it already banned?

    Touching your phone while driving is already banned. Unless there's handsfree games I'm unaware of, what's getting banned?
    The law was previous phone calls and messaging so there was a grey area that offered a potential get-out clause, which is now being removed.
    It's a shame. I like to play Fortnite on the A1(M) and Tetris on the B1174.
    Yes, if you set up Fortnite with motion controls you could affix your phone to your steering wheel, and dodge left and right in the game and real life at the same time.

    Such a shame it is to be banned.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,085
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1

    This is the utter stupidity from the government - and frankly from their few remaining PB Parrots. You can't say "this plan is quicker" when then plan says it isn't. You can't say "this plan prioritises regional connectivity" when the plan leaves whole sections out completely, relegates others to a future study and the rest remains subject to both a viable business case and then treasury approval.

    People are not stupid.
    The basic fact is that the revised plan does absolutely nothing to improve capacity between Leeds/Manchester or Leeds/Sheffield - two of the most congested sections of the network.
    If I were in Manchester or anywhere served by the revised plan, I would be hugely sceptical that it would actually be delivered as promised. Based on the evidence this is the first of many cuts to follow.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics

    The Azeem Rafiq of politics

    https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/595716500461346816?s=21
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010
    Roger said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't know who David Herdson is, but I fully support his right to totally waste his vote.

    Herdson was a regular poster here and a strong Conservative until they were taken over by clowns and ne'er-do-wells at which point he left the Party writing a very eloquent resignation letter. He is also an astute political obserever. In things Consevative probably the most astute on PB.

    Herdson for Mayor!

    Big G will be along to say that Boris is great , Tories are popular and Scotland has fast trains so nothing to worry about.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,512
    AlistairM said:

    I experienced casual anti semitism at school including holocaust references etc. Kids will be kids…

    There was a German boy at the school I went to. He had to put up with references to Germany in WW2 for his entire time there including from his good friends. From my recollection (30 years ago now) it was all good natured but looking back it must have been difficult for him. Kids being kids.
    "Two world wars and one world cup... do dah... do dah..."
  • Scott_xP said:

    I started going through the transcript of the Grant Shapps interview @skynewsniall just did and... err... adding a few bit in red... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461602580493127680/photo/1

    Do they have West Yorkshire seats they want to keep? Michael Green needs to restrain himself with his stupider claims. Lets take Leeds - Bradford. he states "In Bradford you'll have a 12-minute journey time to Leeds".

    Says who? Not the report. Not Network Rail. The wording is: "Network Rail is also being asked to take forward an upgrade of the line between Bradford and Leeds via New Pudsey to include speed improvements and electrification. The aim would be to deliver a non-stop journey time
    between the cities potentially as low as 12 minutes (subject to business case)"

    So NR don't even have a plan for this. Its "potentially as low" as 12 minutes assuming there is a way to physically build that (which there isn't) that would get past "subject to business case" which it won't.

    As anyone with basic understanding knows, Leeds station and its approaches are a massive bottleneck. Trains sitting awaiting a platform for many minutes is common. NPR / HS2 would have fixed this by building a new station and approaches for HS services. Instead there is £100m for a study of the capacity issue now to be made even worse, of the previously studied and cancelled tram system and of the wider "Mass Transit System" which is patently impossible due to the cancellation of all HS lines in and around Leeds.

    Its a lie.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,082
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics

    That's good politics but would they, given he has been a passionate campaigner against it previously.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010

    German Vice-Chancellor Olaf Scholz, who's expected to succeed Merkel: "To get through the winter, we'll see drastic measures that have not been taken before" - REU

    https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1461399343928422409

    I wonder if Merkel and Olaf have realised why Britain after opening up during the Summer is facing a better winter than Germany yet?

    Olaf should have been saying "let's go bring back summer".
    You really are a thick jingoistic halfwitted troll. Thick and stupid being the main part.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,082
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    isam said:

    Bit of a twist in the tale..

    Say it isn't so
    No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
    A good apology too.

    There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
    Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
    No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.

    You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
    The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.

    These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.

    How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
    For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
    IMV it does have bearing. It shows that the problems with racism might be (ahem) more multi-faceted than he was willing to share. Racism may not just be a problem towards people from the India/Pakistan region, or Muslims, but towards other groups as well.

    That's important.

    It also shows he's somewhat hypocritical, and perhaps not the most reliable witness to events.
    It shows he is an arsehole of the worst kind , an out and out racist whining about people being racist towards him. He is obviously extremely stupid to boot in thinking that it would not come out.
    Oops - https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-news-azeem-rafiq-suspended-for-one-month-after-twitter-tirade-470999
  • eekeek Posts: 17,523
    edited November 2021
    Let's fix that post from earlier (stupid ipad)

    Wasn’t Sheffield supposedly a winner from yesterdays review? Well this is the local paper

    image
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,450
    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics

    So what do you think that about the fact that SKS voted against HS2 ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 42,512
    Carnyx said:

    Morning all.

    Looks like the wet market after all for covid:

    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abm4454

    Unless someone at the Wuhan Institute of Virology comes out and says "yes, it was a lab leak", then I doubt it will ever be definitely known. All we have are probabilities.
  • eekeek Posts: 17,523
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    Doesn't mean anything. DM has just gone very right wing. Changed editor. Of course "the sun shines out of Boris's fundament".

    Next editorial will be: "When is Boris going to lift the restrictions on baby-eating?"
    How many people actually read the editorials - I know I don't and I seem to remember most people just skip them

    And the actual news reporting is very different to that editorial.
  • Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    What I don’t understand is how anyone buys the latest promise from this government. The idea that this government won’t roll back further and this is now the one true plan is absurd.
    That remains to be seen but the mails leader this morning provided a balanced view and only 28% in the YouGov poll saw the cancellation of HS2E as a negative

    This forum does not seem to be representative of yesterday announcement and it is permitted to agree with the proposals without being targeted as stupid or other such insults because you have a different opinion

    This forum's strength is its wide political spread and it would be a shame if some voices were drowned out by others because you do not agree
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    In my far off, misspent youth I heard the N-word fairly frequently at school in my small, rural-industrial hometown in West Virginia. Despite the near-total absence of Black people, just one woman, a doctor's maid who I never actually saw.

    BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.

    Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.

    In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?

    Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.

    We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)

    This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.
    Actually, he didn’t confess. He was found out. Had he confessed to the select committee that he’d made such comments when he was younger, he’d look incredibly virtuous. But he didn’t.
    Whatever individuals may have said/written in public/private or not, Yorkshire Cricket has still got a long way to go and blaming the whistleblower as a tactic is never good.
    Not when it is a racist whistleblower, all he has done is start a woke racisthunt. English cricket is f***ed, the do gooders will all be trying to outdo each other in the racist hunting. Who will be the racist finder General appointed to clear out the stables. There will be a few nice sinecures for some yahoos for sure.
  • TazTaz Posts: 3,082
    eek said:

    Let's fix that post from earlier (stupid ipad)

    Wasn’t Sheffield supposedly a winner from yesterdays review? Well this is the local paper

    image

    Savage but true.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 2,450
    SKS words about HS2 in 2016:

    Construction will last for nearly 20 years, and will cause extensive damage and pollution of almost every conceivable type to our communities, schools and businesses. I believe that is wholly unacceptable.
    I speak to each and every one of my constituents in saying I will stand with them and fight with them over the wholly unacceptable damage that HS2 will bring to our communities.
  • Got to say, if the imbecile is still in place and we actually have the Yorkshire audience Question Time leader election specials then Boris Johnson is going to have a rough old time.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,085
    At school the word Tory was used to describe someone stuck up, out of touch, selfish and thought themselves better than others.

    The emotional damage from being labelled a Tory is hard to estimate. I fear some went on to lead very damaged lives, possibly in the House of Commons.
  • Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1

    This is the utter stupidity from the government - and frankly from their few remaining PB Parrots. You can't say "this plan is quicker" when then plan says it isn't. You can't say "this plan prioritises regional connectivity" when the plan leaves whole sections out completely, relegates others to a future study and the rest remains subject to both a viable business case and then treasury approval.

    People are not stupid.
    The basic fact is that the revised plan does absolutely nothing to improve capacity between Leeds/Manchester or Leeds/Sheffield - two of the most congested sections of the network.
    If I were in Manchester or anywhere served by the revised plan, I would be hugely sceptical that it would actually be delivered as promised. Based on the evidence this is the first of many cuts to follow.
    Widely reported on Twitter by rail journalists that Shapps Green was saying very negative things about Transport for the North. So its worth noting that yesterday scrapped the detailed NPR route between Liverpool and Manchester and replaced it with one drawn with crayons.

    Supposedly they have just committed to a revised HS line running via Warrington Bank Quay low level. The first stage from Lime Street to Ditton is simple enough - albeit with a "you scousers will need a new station to make this work and you can have one if you pay for it". Then it gets silly - how are they planning to smooth out the tight and confined twisting route through Wazza or solve the ship canal bridge issue or clear all the houses that are then in the way of any crayon line towards the airport where a biiiiig sweeping curve will be destructively needed to intersect HS2?

    It won't even make the detailed planning stage.
  • Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    Doesn't mean anything. DM has just gone very right wing. Changed editor. Of course "the sun shines out of Boris's fundament".

    Next editorial will be: "When is Boris going to lift the restrictions on baby-eating?"
    Strange how may times the mail has been sighted recently when it was attacking the government and now it supports it it gets a full right wing broadside
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 35,260
    Peng Suai is a brave woman - she knew what she was risking:
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/19/the-disappearance-of-peng-shuai-what-happened-to-the-chinese-tennis-star
    ...In her Weibo post, Peng said she couldn’t produce any evidence of her accusation but was determined to voice them. “Like an egg hitting a rock, or a moth to the flame, courting self-destruction, I’ll tell the truth about you,” she wrote.

    The accusation is the most significant of China’s #MeToo movement, which has struggled to gain traction in the face of strict censorship, an opaque justice system, and social and political hostility. No public accusation has been levelled against a senior official of the Chinese Communist party before, let alone one as high-ranking as Zhang.

    How did China react?
    The post was deleted by China’s strict censors in less than 30 minutes, but nonetheless went viral...
  • Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics

    So what do you think that about the fact that SKS voted against HS2 ?
    Lets reverse it - what do YOU think we should think? Or better still what do you think red wall voters should think?

    I'll give you a clue - this doesn't get Boris and the Tories off the hook.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 17,085

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    What I don’t understand is how anyone buys the latest promise from this government. The idea that this government won’t roll back further and this is now the one true plan is absurd.
    That remains to be seen but the mails leader this morning provided a balanced view and only 28% in the YouGov poll saw the cancellation of HS2E as a negative

    This forum does not seem to be representative of yesterday announcement and it is permitted to agree with the proposals without being targeted as stupid or other such insults because you have a different opinion

    This forum's strength is its wide political spread and it would be a shame if some voices were drowned out by others because you do not agree
    You lost me at Daily Mail and balance. Good grief.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 332
    AlistairM said:

    I experienced casual anti semitism at school including holocaust references etc. Kids will be kids…

    There was a German boy at the school I went to. He had to put up with references to Germany in WW2 for his entire time there including from his good friends. From my recollection (30 years ago now) it was all good natured but looking back it must have been difficult for him. Kids being kids.
    From my time at school I never remember bullying or abuse about peers’ skin colour or ethnicity however if you were German/French (not so much other Europeans for some reason) you got teased/grief and if you were ginger it must have been hell. Kids are generally horrid!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,728

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    What you do not say is the daily mail's leader is supportive of the proposals as a pragmatic answer in the financial circinstances
    Doesn't mean anything. DM has just gone very right wing. Changed editor. Of course "the sun shines out of Boris's fundament".

    Next editorial will be: "When is Boris going to lift the restrictions on baby-eating?"
    Strange how may times the mail has been sighted recently when it was attacking the government and now it supports it it gets a full right wing broadside
    That's bewcause it was so out of character in recent months under the previous editor. The telly has been thumped on the top and normal service has been resumed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1

    This is the utter stupidity from the government - and frankly from their few remaining PB Parrots. You can't say "this plan is quicker" when then plan says it isn't. You can't say "this plan prioritises regional connectivity" when the plan leaves whole sections out completely, relegates others to a future study and the rest remains subject to both a viable business case and then treasury approval.

    People are not stupid.
    There are some on here that disprove your theory unfortunately.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,176
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't know who David Herdson is, but I fully support his right to totally waste his vote.

    That's what the kind ones used to say about the SNP. I'm not so sure that the events of the last few days haven't put the collar on the whippet for a lot of Yorkshire folk.
    They are getting a taste of what Scotland gets every day and finding they don't like it, perhaps they will not be so dismissive of Scotland in future.
    Except that transport is devolved, isn’t it?
  • SKS words about HS2 in 2016:

    Construction will last for nearly 20 years, and will cause extensive damage and pollution of almost every conceivable type to our communities, schools and businesses. I believe that is wholly unacceptable.
    I speak to each and every one of my constituents in saying I will stand with them and fight with them over the wholly unacceptable damage that HS2 will bring to our communities.

    You do know that he was speaking as the Holborn & St Pancras MP? About the communities the Euston station plan proposed at the time would bulldose?

    You do also know that those plans have now been scaled back and some communities now not suffering said unacceptable damage?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,058
    AlistairM said:

    At my school I think casual homophobia was far more common than casual racism. Anything uncool was "gay".

    This was very much the case when I was at school in the 1990s. I don't think anyone gave it too much thought at the time. It became just a word to describe something that wasn't cool but obviously now it would not be acceptable.
    From back in the 50's I don't recall many (???any) non-white children around. There were quite a few Jews though; quite a big community in part of Southend.
    As I recall the main issue any of us raised was after we were about 15 and there would be no chance of going out with an attractive girl from the school next 'because she was Jewish' and the same applied to the girls. No point in getting romantic with a. Jewish boy; he'll only marry in the faith.
    I really don't recall much else.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,176
    malcolmg said:

    Roger said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't know who David Herdson is, but I fully support his right to totally waste his vote.

    Herdson was a regular poster here and a strong Conservative until they were taken over by clowns and ne'er-do-wells at which point he left the Party writing a very eloquent resignation letter. He is also an astute political obserever. In things Consevative probably the most astute on PB.

    Herdson for Mayor!

    Big G will be along to say that Boris is great , Tories are popular and Scotland has fast trains so nothing to worry about.
    He’s already done it.
    “But the Daily Mail said it was great!”
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 26,058

    Got to say, if the imbecile is still in place and we actually have the Yorkshire audience Question Time leader election specials then Boris Johnson is going to have a rough old time.

    Before he gets into the fridge, I take it?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 10,176
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics

    That's good politics but would they, given he has been a passionate campaigner against it previously.
    Maybe he changed his mind.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 17,728

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    I don't know who David Herdson is, but I fully support his right to totally waste his vote.

    That's what the kind ones used to say about the SNP. I'm not so sure that the events of the last few days haven't put the collar on the whippet for a lot of Yorkshire folk.
    They are getting a taste of what Scotland gets every day and finding they don't like it, perhaps they will not be so dismissive of Scotland in future.
    Except that transport is devolved, isn’t it?
    We were - certainly I was - talking and thinking of the wider electoral implications of a successful Yorkshire party. Not specifically transport.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638

    SKS words about HS2 in 2016:

    Construction will last for nearly 20 years, and will cause extensive damage and pollution of almost every conceivable type to our communities, schools and businesses. I believe that is wholly unacceptable.
    I speak to each and every one of my constituents in saying I will stand with them and fight with them over the wholly unacceptable damage that HS2 will bring to our communities.

    As @RochdalePioneers says, that was when it was in HIS backyard
  • Jonathan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Sec Grant Shapps on at 7am.

    He said yesterday "under the original scheme, the HS2 track would not have reached the east midlands and the north until the early 2040s".

    But this from the IRP shows the HS2 track not reaching East Mids or North until... er the 2040s...
    https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461590759921094659/photo/1

    This is the utter stupidity from the government - and frankly from their few remaining PB Parrots. You can't say "this plan is quicker" when then plan says it isn't. You can't say "this plan prioritises regional connectivity" when the plan leaves whole sections out completely, relegates others to a future study and the rest remains subject to both a viable business case and then treasury approval.

    People are not stupid.
    The basic fact is that the revised plan does absolutely nothing to improve capacity between Leeds/Manchester or Leeds/Sheffield - two of the most congested sections of the network.
    If I were in Manchester or anywhere served by the revised plan, I would be hugely sceptical that it would actually be delivered as promised. Based on the evidence this is the first of many cuts to follow.
    Yep.

    Let the salami slicing begin.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 35,010
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    And because the institution refused to accept anything needed changing (which is Rafiq's main point).
    I was at school in the 70s, and casual racism was not at all uncommon. I can't recall anyone using the racist 'Jew' stereotype either.
    It was widely used the way @rcs1000 describes at my high school in Atlanta, where there were a significant number of Jews. I never heard it used that way in my British schools, though plenty of other racist, homophobic and misogynistic terms were commonly used, with intent varying from jokes to bullying.
    In 60's and 70's anything was fair game and no-one even thought there was racism , homophobia or misogyny it was part of normal standards. Today's snowflakes would have been fainting on a regular basis.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 15,337
    edited November 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps claims it is "not accurate" to suggest the eastern leg of HS2 has been scrapped - despite confirming that the majority of the project had been axed in yesterday's House of Commons announcement.

    Read more: https://trib.al/KMCt5VR https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1461596997748670469/video/1

    I'll just leave this here from the Daily Mail Henry Deedes sketch this morning... https://twitter.com/robpowellnews/status/1461599678873673731/photo/1

    This made me laugh! Even Boris Johnson doesn't understand it!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59339868

  • Scott_xP said:

    Labour leader Keir Starmer says Labour would build full east leg of HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail @BBCr4today

    Says decision yesterday from Govt showed levelling up "is just a slogan"


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics

    Excellent. Maybe Adonis is right and all Johnson has achieved is a delay of ten wasted years.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 22,280
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.

    In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.

    * In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.

    That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.

    But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
    And because the institution refused to accept anything needed changing (which is Rafiq's main point).
    I was at school in the 70s, and casual racism was not at all uncommon. I can't recall anyone using the racist 'Jew' stereotype either.
    It was widely used the way @rcs1000 describes at my high school in Atlanta, where there were a significant number of Jews. I never heard it used that way in my British schools, though plenty of other racist, homophobic and misogynistic terms were commonly used, with intent varying from jokes to bullying.
    In 60's and 70's anything was fair game and no-one even thought there was racism , homophobia or misogyny it was part of normal standards. Today's snowflakes would have been fainting on a regular basis.
    Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing 'Hallelujah.'
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