1. Britain is small: a bog-standard inter city service will get you between almost all the main population centres in a fairly reasonable time (if you're lucky enough to pick a day when it's working properly, that is) 2. Britain is hopeless at infrastructure projects and has been for at least the last hundred years: they're typically very late, vastly over budget, and often both 3. Most crucially, Britain is absolutely full from top to bottom with nimbies. The Government can't even defend by-elections in the wealthier parts of Buckinghamshire, so deep and visceral is the loathing felt for HS2 by the locals
All that having been said, there's a good argument to be made for throwing the entire project in the dustbin and delivering line upgrades across the North at a fraction of the price. One wonders how much the decision not to do this (or, at most, finish the half-constructed line from London to Birmingham and stop at that) has to do with the appalling optics of not bothering to plumb the North into the system at all, and how much is actually down to the sunk costs fallacy.
So I will raise the spirits. I am in Herefordshire doing research, and it’s the first time in 3 decades I’ve properly explored the county and town where I grew up
OMG Herefordshire is exquisite. I had forgotten. Perhaps the loveliest county in England? Certainly the most unspoiled.
However, everyone knows Herefordshire is gorgeous, they just have to be reminded. What is surprising is the city, Hereford. The scruffy, boozy, likeable Marches town - with edgy bits - that I remember, has been transformed into a chic, posh, prosperous cathedral city with specialist cheese shops and lots of cyclists. Like Winchester or Salisbury or an affluent, historic town in Holland or Bavaria
It is also spookily quiet. Gone are the gangs of drinkers. Now people eat politely in Korean barbecues.
Amazing. And definitely a change for the better even if I miss the boisterousness
Thanks yet again for another report on your travels!
But why so glum? Heck, just suggested an election that you personally (so to speak) can NOT lose!
I’m not glum!
I’ve had a wondrous day tramping the wilds of Herefordshire. Craswall Church under a full moon! It was like a Samuel Palmer painting
Now I drink Amarone in the 17th century wood paneled rooms of the Green Dragon Hotel, opposite the delicately illuminated medieval Cathedral. Life is sweet
BTW is it "Her-e-ford" or "Her'ferd"? The latter being what we call the cattle in US.
I thought the cattle were Hurr - fudd. At least that is what the farmers sound like around these parts.
Close enough. Further north they keep the 2nd r.
EDIT - and some parts further south, they lose 'em both.
Yep. And with some of the farmers, it is just impossible to understand what they are saying, I leave it to my wife to interpret.
Must make you feel like your back with your Auntie in Yorkshire!
1. Britain is small: a bog-standard inter city service will get you between almost all the main population centres in a fairly reasonable time (if you're lucky enough to pick a day when it's working properly, that is) 2. Britain is hopeless at infrastructure projects and has been for at least the last hundred years: they're typically very late, vastly over budget, and often both 3. Most crucially, Britain is absolutely full from top to bottom with nimbies. The Government can't even defend by-elections in the wealthier parts of Buckinghamshire, so deep and visceral is the loathing felt for HS2 by the locals
All that having been said, there's a good argument to be made for throwing the entire project in the dustbin and delivering line upgrades across the North at a fraction of the price. One wonders how much the decision not to do this (or, at most, finish the half-constructed line from London to Birmingham and stop at that) has to do with the appalling optics of not bothering to plumb the North into the system at all, and how much is actually down to the sunk costs fallacy.
Except the government appears very happy to build things in its own back yard - London - to the exclusion of all else.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
I'm sorry but I think this is ... to go a bit @IshmaelZ ... bollocks bollocks bollocks.
Not the points about racism being present in most people and about forgiving youthful misjudgements, both of which I agree with, but what you present as where you're coming from. I think you come from a different place when it comes to Muslims. Quite a jaundiced one. Sorry if that's a misread but there you go.
Some questions for you anyway. You say you hate Rafiq's hypocrisy. What do you mean by that? That because he was antisemitic back then he should have kept his trap shut now about years of racist bullying in his workplace? Should have just sucked it up?
And what about his apology? Is that no good at all for you?
And if you're so keen on cutting slack to a 19 year old for some racist tweets why come straight in with "he's a fucking racist!" - using the present tense and the superstrong racist noun option, plus a 'fucking' for good measure?
It just doesn't scan. YOU don't scan. Not on this subject anyway.
Anyway, who needs trains when there are lovely new offences to be introduced.
This is government for the very elderly.
If you want to imagine the future, picture an orthopaedic shoe stamping on a human face - for ever.
Totally agree. For many people (myself included) dogs are an integral part of our family and too many have been stolen, causing immense heartache. Criminals were undeterred because the penalties were a joke. Not now.
We already had such an offence. It’s called “Theft” and carries a maximum sentence of 7 years.
Most of the time we don’t need populist new laws, we just need to enforce the existing ones.
Except that the Police treated the theft of a dog like stealing a mobile. Basically irrelevant and not worth the effort. Introducing the new offence changes the priority for the Police.
But I take it on your logic that you are against the whole concept of "hate crimes" given they are already covered by existing offences?
The priority of the Police (and their resources) can be changed without introducing pointless new offences which just repeat what we already have.
Less, higher quality laws are better than more laws.
And the question about hate crimes? Do you agree that, on your logic, we shouldn't have the category of hate crimes?
I am not against sentencing guidelines imposing harsher sentences if offences are racially etc motivated but neither am I particularly for it either, if that’s what you mean.
But, as you argued with the laws against dog-napping, fewer higher quality laws are what we need so why do we differentiate because different types of the same crime, especially as it means Police are pressurised to investigate one type of the same crime over another.
"These crimes are covered by legislation (Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and section 66 of the Sentencing Act 2020) which allows prosecutors to apply for an uplift in sentence for those convicted of a hate crime."
We have the case where the law treats one type of the same offence as more serious than another.
But I am assuming you agree that legislation should be repealed?
A sentencing uplift is not the same as a whole new offence. Its a weird how you’ve taken this opportunity to attack the concept of “hate crimes” seemingly out of nowhere.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
I'm sorry but I think this is ... to go a bit @IshmaelZ ... bollocks bollocks bollocks.
Not the points about racism being present in most people and about forgiving youthful misjudgements, both of which I agree with, but what you present as where you're coming from. I think you come from a different place when it comes to Muslims. Quite a jaundiced one. Sorry if that's a misread but there you go.
Some questions for you anyway. You say you hate Rafiq's hypocrisy. What do you mean by that? That because he was antisemitic back then he should have kept his trap shut now about years of racist bullying in his workplace? Should have just sucked it up?
And what about his apology? Is that no good at all for you?
And if you're so keen on cutting slack to a 19 year old for some racist tweets why come straight in with "he's a fucking racist!" - using the present tense and the superstrong racist noun option, plus a 'fucking' for good measure?
It just doesn't scan. YOU don't scan. Not on this subject anyway.
Fuck off you old Jew hater. Really. Enough of your cant
Johnson calls new rail plans "monumental" says BBC News.
Well, it's a monumental something...
I'm sure he expects them to be a Titanic success.
Reminds me of a uni friend who, in some ribald discourse and trying to conjure the powerfulness of a nuclear explosion, ended up claiming to have an atomic dick, and then arguing blind for the next hour that atomic didn't mean that.
Very much in the vane of that Kendrick Lamar lyric misjudging, possibly intentionally?, the relative sizes of 'Eiffel Tower' and 'Wotld'
Speaking of David Herdson's prescience in 2017, by happenstance just took delivery of my copy of "The British General Election of 2017"
Have just begun dipping into the contents, but plenty of documentation already, that general expectation right up to polling day was for Theresa May's Tories to win a solid if not overwhelming majority.
So I will raise the spirits. I am in Herefordshire doing research, and it’s the first time in 3 decades I’ve properly explored the county and town where I grew up
OMG Herefordshire is exquisite. I had forgotten. Perhaps the loveliest county in England? Certainly the most unspoiled.
However, everyone knows Herefordshire is gorgeous, they just have to be reminded. What is surprising is the city, Hereford. The scruffy, boozy, likeable Marches town - with edgy bits - that I remember, has been transformed into a chic, posh, prosperous cathedral city with specialist cheese shops and lots of cyclists. Like Winchester or Salisbury or an affluent, historic town in Holland or Bavaria
It is also spookily quiet. Gone are the gangs of drinkers. Now people eat politely in Korean barbecues.
Amazing. And definitely a change for the better even if I miss the boisterousness
Thanks yet again for another report on your travels!
But why so glum? Heck, just suggested an election that you personally (so to speak) can NOT lose!
I’m not glum!
I’ve had a wondrous day tramping the wilds of Herefordshire. Craswall Church under a full moon! It was like a Samuel Palmer painting
Now I drink Amarone in the 17th century wood paneled rooms of the Green Dragon Hotel, opposite the delicately illuminated medieval Cathedral. Life is sweet
BTW is it "Her-e-ford" or "Her'ferd"? The latter being what we call the cattle in US.
Her - eeee - ford
In US there are several towns named Hereford. Including county seat of Deaf Smith County, Texas.
Apparently locals call it "Hur'furd" and call the place > Beef Capital of the World; > The Town Without a Toothache (because of naturally-occurring fluoride in the water) > Most Conservative Town in America (which somehow does NOT compute with above!)
Speaking of David Herdson's prescience in 2017, by happenstance just took delivery of my copy of "The British General Election of 2017"
Have just begun dipping into the contents, but plenty of documentation already, that general expectation right up to polling day was for Theresa May's Tories to win a solid if not overwhelming majority.
There were folk on here predicting 400+ seats for the Tories even on election day.
Speaking of David Herdson's prescience in 2017, by happenstance just took delivery of my copy of "The British General Election of 2017"
Have just begun dipping into the contents, but plenty of documentation already, that general expectation right up to polling day was for Theresa May's Tories to win a solid if not overwhelming majority.
There were folk on here predicting 400+ seats for the Tories even on election day.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
Aren’t you a little surprised that someone so sensitive to racist language that he picked up on it when other people present didn’t hear it, then explained to them how it was so ingrained in their culture that they were tone deaf to it, was so casual about using it himself to degrade others?
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
I'm sorry but I think this is ... to go a bit @IshmaelZ ... bollocks bollocks bollocks.
Not the points about racism being present in most people and about forgiving youthful misjudgements, both of which I agree with, but what you present as where you're coming from. I think you come from a different place when it comes to Muslims. Quite a jaundiced one. Sorry if that's a misread but there you go.
Some questions for you anyway. You say you hate Rafiq's hypocrisy. What do you mean by that? That because he was antisemitic back then he should have kept his trap shut now about years of racist bullying in his workplace? Should have just sucked it up?
And what about his apology? Is that no good at all for you?
And if you're so keen on cutting slack to a 19 year old for some racist tweets why come straight in with "he's a fucking racist!" - using the present tense and the superstrong racist noun option, plus a 'fucking' for good measure?
It just doesn't scan. YOU don't scan. Not on this subject anyway.
Fuck off you old Jew hater. Really. Enough of your cant
Oh dear oh dear. Cannot handle any scrutiny whatsoever.
Ok, just get back to your 'high style' wittering about this & that. There's appetite for it, I know, and I don't wish to distract.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
I'm sorry but I think this is ... to go a bit @IshmaelZ ... bollocks bollocks bollocks.
Not the points about racism being present in most people and about forgiving youthful misjudgements, both of which I agree with, but what you present as where you're coming from. I think you come from a different place when it comes to Muslims. Quite a jaundiced one. Sorry if that's a misread but there you go.
Some questions for you anyway. You say you hate Rafiq's hypocrisy. What do you mean by that? That because he was antisemitic back then he should have kept his trap shut now about years of racist bullying in his workplace? Should have just sucked it up?
And what about his apology? Is that no good at all for you?
And if you're so keen on cutting slack to a 19 year old for some racist tweets why come straight in with "he's a fucking racist!" - using the present tense and the superstrong racist noun option, plus a 'fucking' for good measure?
It just doesn't scan. YOU don't scan. Not on this subject anyway.
Fuck off you old Jew hater. Really. Enough of your cant
Oh dear oh dear. Cannot handle any scrutiny whatsoever.
Ok, just get back to your 'high style' wittering about this & that. There's appetite for it, I know, and I don't wish to distract.
Is "high style" when you're a heroin addict and find God on a park bench?
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
One thing I disagree with directly, one thing by omission.
The thing I disagree with directly is you still seem to be making a distinction between racism and anti-semitism. What he said was not only anti-Semitic but also racist. Do you accept he made racist comments?
The omission part is that he criticised others for their forgetfulness and has called for them to be sacked yet he appears he was also (give him the benefit of the doubt) forgetful about his own racist comments. Sure, we can forgive him but he doesn’t seem in too keen a mood to forgive others.
Are the Yorkshire Party the same geezers who wanted to annex Kings Cross and St Pancras as part of an independent Yorkshire within London, along with the width of the track to Sheffield and Leeds? Or was that some other bunch of nutters?
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
Does the fact that it was racist in nature make the bullying uniquely bad?
Isn’t any bullying wrong regardless of the choice of stick?
Bullying that reduces one groups participation in a sport from something like 30% at recreational level to 3% at professional level clearly has a wider impact than random bullying of an individual.
Both are equally wrong, but their impact and importance at the societal level is different.
What you say is right
But you are misunderstanding my point. If they hadn’t been bullying him about his race it could have been his height or the shape of his ears or anything else. Bullies pick on perceived weaknesses.
It’s the action, not the intention, that matters
But only in a racist society is having brown skin perceived as a weakness.
That's a very sharp point indeed for somebody with Covid.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
Aren’t you a little surprised that someone so sensitive to racist language that he picked up on it when other people present didn’t hear it, then explained to them how it was so ingrained in their culture that they were tone deaf to it, was so casual about using it himself to degrade others?
Anyway, who needs trains when there are lovely new offences to be introduced.
This is government for the very elderly.
If you want to imagine the future, picture an orthopaedic shoe stamping on a human face - for ever.
Totally agree. For many people (myself included) dogs are an integral part of our family and too many have been stolen, causing immense heartache. Criminals were undeterred because the penalties were a joke. Not now.
We already had such an offence. It’s called “Theft” and carries a maximum sentence of 7 years.
Most of the time we don’t need populist new laws, we just need to enforce the existing ones.
Except that the Police treated the theft of a dog like stealing a mobile. Basically irrelevant and not worth the effort. Introducing the new offence changes the priority for the Police.
But I take it on your logic that you are against the whole concept of "hate crimes" given they are already covered by existing offences?
The priority of the Police (and their resources) can be changed without introducing pointless new offences which just repeat what we already have.
Less, higher quality laws are better than more laws.
And the question about hate crimes? Do you agree that, on your logic, we shouldn't have the category of hate crimes?
I am not against sentencing guidelines imposing harsher sentences if offences are racially etc motivated but neither am I particularly for it either, if that’s what you mean.
But, as you argued with the laws against dog-napping, fewer higher quality laws are what we need so why do we differentiate because different types of the same crime, especially as it means Police are pressurised to investigate one type of the same crime over another.
"These crimes are covered by legislation (Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and section 66 of the Sentencing Act 2020) which allows prosecutors to apply for an uplift in sentence for those convicted of a hate crime."
We have the case where the law treats one type of the same offence as more serious than another.
But I am assuming you agree that legislation should be repealed?
A sentencing uplift is not the same as a whole new offence. Its a weird how you’ve taken this opportunity to attack the concept of “hate crimes” seemingly out of nowhere.
We can debate sentencing if you like
You disagree that a new law was introduced to allow hate crimes to be sentenced differently? The CPS make it clear it was legislation that allowed this.
Your original point was that we should have fewer, higher quality laws.
In fact, you said we already had laws to deal with the theft of dogs so why introduce a new law. Same point here. We already had laws to deal with hateful language, acts etc so why was new legislation needed?
Hard to compare but it's a traditional Tory ward which was captured by LD and Lab (me) candidates in 2019. The Greens (whosse councillor fell ill, hence the by-election) are in coalition with us and we gave them a clear run. There was a serious Tory effort even though it's just a town Council ward.
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Hard to compare but it's a traditional Tory ward which was captured by LD and Lab (me) candidates in 2019. The Greens (whosse councillor fell ill, hence the by-election) are in coalition with us and we gave them a clear run. There was a serious Tory effort even though it's just a town Council ward.
Doesn’t sound that spectacular. It was taken from the Tories in 2019. You allowed the Greens a clear run hence the anti-Tory vote coalesced around a single party. How many times will you stand aside in the future?
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Ah, I remember the Ritz fondly. Wednesday night was student’s night, ended with the theme from ‘The Dambusters’. Never went on Saturday, which was locally known as ‘Grab a Grannie’ night.
The Wedding Present - that is a blast from the past
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
One thing I disagree with directly, one thing by omission.
The thing I disagree with directly is you still seem to be making a distinction between racism and anti-semitism. What he said was not only anti-Semitic but also racist. Do you accept he made racist comments?
The omission part is that he criticised others for their forgetfulness and has called for them to be sacked yet he appears he was also (give him the benefit of the doubt) forgetful about his own racist comments. Sure, we can forgive him but he doesn’t seem in too keen a mood to forgive others.
I simply do not see where you or anybody else is getting this about me making this 'distinction'. I am not. Here, look - He made antisemitic comments and ANTISEMITISM IS RACISM AGAINST JEWS.
On the 'forgetfulness', ok, but what is your actual point? That those he named should face no consequences? Or that he shouldn't have named anybody? Or just that you personally think ill of him because to you he's more hypocrite than victim? Or what?
It sure would be a lot simpler if the good guys could be completely good and the bad guys would be completely bad.
I'll say something in Rafiq's favour - he knows how to apologise properly. His apology was a lot better than the mealy-mouthed norm. But, I think he could go further and extend the forgiveness he will hope to receive for his indiscretion to at least some of those he has accused. If his comments about Jews had been made verbally, rather than on an electronic medium where they were preserved, would he have remembered them any more than Vaughan has been able to remember the "your lot" comment?
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
I'm sorry but I think this is ... to go a bit @IshmaelZ ... bollocks bollocks bollocks.
Not the points about racism being present in most people and about forgiving youthful misjudgements, both of which I agree with, but what you present as where you're coming from. I think you come from a different place when it comes to Muslims. Quite a jaundiced one. Sorry if that's a misread but there you go.
Some questions for you anyway. You say you hate Rafiq's hypocrisy. What do you mean by that? That because he was antisemitic back then he should have kept his trap shut now about years of racist bullying in his workplace? Should have just sucked it up?
And what about his apology? Is that no good at all for you?
And if you're so keen on cutting slack to a 19 year old for some racist tweets why come straight in with "he's a fucking racist!" - using the present tense and the superstrong racist noun option, plus a 'fucking' for good measure?
It just doesn't scan. YOU don't scan. Not on this subject anyway.
Fuck off you old Jew hater. Really. Enough of your cant
Oh dear oh dear. Cannot handle any scrutiny whatsoever.
Ok, just get back to your 'high style' wittering about this & that. There's appetite for it, I know, and I don't wish to distract.
Is "high style" when you're a heroin addict and find God on a park bench?
I'd say it is, yes. Very much so. He does class A, I do midget gems. Says it all.
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Ah, I remember the Ritz fondly. Wednesday night was student’s night, ended with the theme from ‘The Dambusters’. Never went on Saturday, which was locally known as ‘Grab a Grannie’ night.
The Wedding Present - that is a blast from the past
Wednesday night was a semi-regular forme between 1993 and 1996 ( though I was from, rather than a student in, Manchester) - if that was your time period I may have seen you in there in the dima and distant past.
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Saw the Wedding Present under the Archway in Notting Hill in early 90's. We were tripping on some cheap and nasty acid. David Gedge jumped off stage and started dancing with my gf now wife. Apparently, she was invited backstage. Or so I am told.
So I will raise the spirits. I am in Herefordshire doing research, and it’s the first time in 3 decades I’ve properly explored the county and town where I grew up
OMG Herefordshire is exquisite. I had forgotten. Perhaps the loveliest county in England? Certainly the most unspoiled.
However, everyone knows Herefordshire is gorgeous, they just have to be reminded. What is surprising is the city, Hereford. The scruffy, boozy, likeable Marches town - with edgy bits - that I remember, has been transformed into a chic, posh, prosperous cathedral city with specialist cheese shops and lots of cyclists. Like Winchester or Salisbury or an affluent, historic town in Holland or Bavaria
It is also spookily quiet. Gone are the gangs of drinkers. Now people eat politely in Korean barbecues.
Amazing. And definitely a change for the better even if I miss the boisterousness
Thanks yet again for another report on your travels!
But why so glum? Heck, just suggested an election that you personally (so to speak) can NOT lose!
I’m not glum!
I’ve had a wondrous day tramping the wilds of Herefordshire. Craswall Church under a full moon! It was like a Samuel Palmer painting
Now I drink Amarone in the 17th century wood paneled rooms of the Green Dragon Hotel, opposite the delicately illuminated medieval Cathedral. Life is sweet
BTW is it "Her-e-ford" or "Her'ferd"? The latter being what we call the cattle in US.
Her - eeee - ford
In US there are several towns named Hereford. Including county seat of Deaf Smith County, Texas.
Apparently locals call it "Hur'furd" and call the place > Beef Capital of the World; > The Town Without a Toothache (because of naturally-occurring fluoride in the water) > Most Conservative Town in America (which somehow does NOT compute with above!)
That's a proposed motion to conference, so it's the view of some members, not the party. There's no indication of any vote on it, so it's impossible to tell whether it was adopted, supported, or slung it. And going by the reference to EDM 247... it's from 2003.
Hard to compare but it's a traditional Tory ward which was captured by LD and Lab (me) candidates in 2019. The Greens (whosse councillor fell ill, hence the by-election) are in coalition with us and we gave them a clear run. There was a serious Tory effort even though it's just a town Council ward.
Doesn’t sound that spectacular. It was taken from the Tories in 2019. You allowed the Greens a clear run hence the anti-Tory vote coalesced around a single party. How many times will you stand aside in the future?
The anti-Tory effort here is quite well organised. The Greens stood aside for me and the Libdems in the same (2-seat) ward in 2019. The Tories had held the ward for ages - I was the first Labour councillor since 2002 - so 61% for the rainbow candidate is solidly reassuring.
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Saw the Wedding Present under the Archway in Notting Hill in early 90's. We were tripping on some cheap and nasty acid. David Gedge jumped off stage and started dancing with my gf now wife. Apparently, she was invited backstage. Or so I am told.
Now I follow Council by-elections on a Thursday evening.
So I will raise the spirits. I am in Herefordshire doing research, and it’s the first time in 3 decades I’ve properly explored the county and town where I grew up
OMG Herefordshire is exquisite. I had forgotten. Perhaps the loveliest county in England? Certainly the most unspoiled.
However, everyone knows Herefordshire is gorgeous, they just have to be reminded. What is surprising is the city, Hereford. The scruffy, boozy, likeable Marches town - with edgy bits - that I remember, has been transformed into a chic, posh, prosperous cathedral city with specialist cheese shops and lots of cyclists. Like Winchester or Salisbury or an affluent, historic town in Holland or Bavaria
It is also spookily quiet. Gone are the gangs of drinkers. Now people eat politely in Korean barbecues.
Amazing. And definitely a change for the better even if I miss the boisterousness
Thanks yet again for another report on your travels!
But why so glum? Heck, just suggested an election that you personally (so to speak) can NOT lose!
I’m not glum!
I’ve had a wondrous day tramping the wilds of Herefordshire. Craswall Church under a full moon! It was like a Samuel Palmer painting
Now I drink Amarone in the 17th century wood paneled rooms of the Green Dragon Hotel, opposite the delicately illuminated medieval Cathedral. Life is sweet
BTW is it "Her-e-ford" or "Her'ferd"? The latter being what we call the cattle in US.
Her - eeee - ford
In US there are several towns named Hereford. Including county seat of Deaf Smith County, Texas.
Apparently locals call it "Hur'furd" and call the place > Beef Capital of the World; > The Town Without a Toothache (because of naturally-occurring fluoride in the water) > Most Conservative Town in America (which somehow does NOT compute with above!)
That's a proposed motion to conference, so it's the view of some members, not the party. There's no indication of any vote on it, so it's impossible to tell whether it was adopted, supported, or slung it. And going by the reference to EDM 247... it's from 2003.
Poor effort, Matt. Try harder next time.
"reiterates" though?
For interest: the EDM was sponsored by David Amess, and signed by Nick Palmer.
Hard to compare but it's a traditional Tory ward which was captured by LD and Lab (me) candidates in 2019. The Greens (whosse councillor fell ill, hence the by-election) are in coalition with us and we gave them a clear run. There was a serious Tory effort even though it's just a town Council ward.
Doesn’t sound that spectacular. It was taken from the Tories in 2019. You allowed the Greens a clear run hence the anti-Tory vote coalesced around a single party. How many times will you stand aside in the future?
The anti-Tory effort here is quite well organised. The Greens stood aside for me and the Libdems in the same (2-seat) ward in 2019. The Tories had held the ward for ages - I was the first Labour councillor since 2002 - so 61% for the rainbow candidate is solidly reassuring.
That is fair enough. With coalition skills like that Nick, you should become Labour leader
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Ah, I remember the Ritz fondly. Wednesday night was student’s night, ended with the theme from ‘The Dambusters’. Never went on Saturday, which was locally known as ‘Grab a Grannie’ night.
The Wedding Present - that is a blast from the past
Wednesday night was a semi-regular forme between 1993 and 1996 ( though I was from, rather than a student in, Manchester) - if that was your time period I may have seen you in there in the dima and distant past.
I’m the same as you, I’m from Manchester but didn’t study there. But I used to come home a lot - I worked in a bar with a whole load of Manchester Poly girls who used to drag me out to all the clubs. It was terrible
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
One thing I disagree with directly, one thing by omission.
The thing I disagree with directly is you still seem to be making a distinction between racism and anti-semitism. What he said was not only anti-Semitic but also racist. Do you accept he made racist comments?
The omission part is that he criticised others for their forgetfulness and has called for them to be sacked yet he appears he was also (give him the benefit of the doubt) forgetful about his own racist comments. Sure, we can forgive him but he doesn’t seem in too keen a mood to forgive others.
I simply do not see where you or anybody else is getting this about me making this 'distinction'. I am not. Here, look - He made antisemitic comments and ANTISEMITISM IS RACISM AGAINST JEWS.
On the 'forgetfulness', ok, but what is your actual point? That those he named should face no consequences? Or that he shouldn't have named anybody? Or just that you personally think ill of him because to you he's more hypocrite than victim? Or what?
Then just call it racism. Don’t have it as a ‘special category’. It gives the impression it’s a somewhat lesser crime.
As to your other comment, you are spectacularly missing the point or wilfully neglecting it. Rafiq has been calling for the heads of others and claims that their forgetfulness is a sign they are unrepentant, yet he now asks for forgiveness for his own forgetfulness.
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Ah, I remember the Ritz fondly. Wednesday night was student’s night, ended with the theme from ‘The Dambusters’. Never went on Saturday, which was locally known as ‘Grab a Grannie’ night.
The Wedding Present - that is a blast from the past
Wednesday night was a semi-regular forme between 1993 and 1996 ( though I was from, rather than a student in, Manchester) - if that was your time period I may have seen you in there in the dima and distant past.
That's a proposed motion to conference, so it's the view of some members, not the party. There's no indication of any vote on it, so it's impossible to tell whether it was adopted, supported, or slung it. And going by the reference to EDM 247... it's from 2003.
Poor effort, Matt. Try harder next time.
"reiterates" though?
For interest: the EDM was sponsored by David Amess, and signed by Nick Palmer.
Yes, happy days - David and I signed lots of EDMs together. With the chequered history of my teeth you'd vote for flouridation from birth.
It sure would be a lot simpler if the good guys could be completely good and the bad guys would be completely bad.
I'll say something in Rafiq's favour - he knows how to apologise properly. His apology was a lot better than the mealy-mouthed norm. But, I think he could go further and extend the forgiveness he will hope to receive for his indiscretion to at least some of those he has accused. If his comments about Jews had been made verbally, rather than on an electronic medium where they were preserved, would he have remembered them any more than Vaughan has been able to remember the "your lot" comment?
That’s a very good point re the verbal vs written part.
That's a proposed motion to conference, so it's the view of some members, not the party. There's no indication of any vote on it, so it's impossible to tell whether it was adopted, supported, or slung it. And going by the reference to EDM 247... it's from 2003.
Poor effort, Matt. Try harder next time.
"reiterates" though?
For interest: the EDM was sponsored by David Amess, and signed by Nick Palmer.
Yes, happy days - David and I signed lots of EDMs together. With the chequered history of my teeth you'd vote for flouridation from birth.
I see the Greens did oppose flouridation in 2000 (with Ken Livingstone, sigh):
'Evening everyone. To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion. The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness. Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was. David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Ah, I remember the Ritz fondly. Wednesday night was student’s night, ended with the theme from ‘The Dambusters’. Never went on Saturday, which was locally known as ‘Grab a Grannie’ night.
The Wedding Present - that is a blast from the past
Wednesday night was a semi-regular forme between 1993 and 1996 ( though I was from, rather than a student in, Manchester) - if that was your time period I may have seen you in there in the dima and distant past.
By the way Cookie, did you ever go to Friday’s?
I don't think I did, no. Fridays were rarely a clubbing day in my youth - I suppose Friday is where the clubs can maximise their income from the mainstream so the niches get the obscurer days of the week.
Starting to feel that the LDs will win North Shropshire despite the negatives for them in the constituency, like for example the fact that it voted 59% Leave and that it has a lower than average number of graduates. Just a hunch.
LD not standing as last time. Is this a tacit agreement? If so, this, and what NPXMP was alluding to earlier, could certainly game the FPTP system in the future.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
I'm asking you (1) so that we have uniform standards and (2) because you seemed to draw a distinction between anti-Semitic and racist comments, which others have also highlighted as well. My own view on Rafiq is that people can change and that he may not be a racist now but complaining about others forgetting when he has skeletons in his own closet is not a good look.
However, let's take this from other angle. If Moxon, Vaughan or anyone made racist comments / tweets in the past, under your argument, we shouldn't assume they are racist because they may have changed and therefore they should be forgiven, not condemned. Is that a fair assumption?
What's 'not a good look' is getting overly bogged down in this. To me it's pretty simple.
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
One thing I disagree with directly, one thing by omission.
The thing I disagree with directly is you still seem to be making a distinction between racism and anti-semitism. What he said was not only anti-Semitic but also racist. Do you accept he made racist comments?
The omission part is that he criticised others for their forgetfulness and has called for them to be sacked yet he appears he was also (give him the benefit of the doubt) forgetful about his own racist comments. Sure, we can forgive him but he doesn’t seem in too keen a mood to forgive others.
I simply do not see where you or anybody else is getting this about me making this 'distinction'. I am not. Here, look - He made antisemitic comments and ANTISEMITISM IS RACISM AGAINST JEWS.
On the 'forgetfulness', ok, but what is your actual point? That those he named should face no consequences? Or that he shouldn't have named anybody? Or just that you personally think ill of him because to you he's more hypocrite than victim? Or what?
Then just call it racism. Don’t have it as a ‘special category’. It gives the impression it’s a somewhat lesser crime.
As to your other comment, you are spectacularly missing the point or wilfully neglecting it. Rafiq has been calling for the heads of others and claims that their forgetfulness is a sign they are unrepentant, yet he now asks for forgiveness for his own forgetfulness.
You really have lost me, Ed, as regards the language thing. Antisemitism is the word for anti jewish racist prejudice. Just as (say) Islamophobia is for anti muslim racist prejudice.
So how on earth is somebody using those standard usage terms implying that they are lesser forms of racist prejudice than other types? This is a ridiculous inference. No?
And your other point - Rafiq was saying the fact people didn't remember indicated how normal it was, not that they were unrepentant. That's what I heard anyway. Maybe there was more. In which case, ok, I see the point.
But again, what's the upshot for you? That those he shamed should face no consequences because he himself has now been shamed? I don't get where you're going with it.
I love this website and those whose contribute to it btl (Inc. my Dad, who introduced me to it and (im 95% sure) posts occasionally. )
Thanks so much for keeping me company during the pandemic and making me roughly £500 so far. Please run a fundraiser soon so I can I chuck some money at the Smithsons.
This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.
In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.
* In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.
The Yorkshire Party.... I welcome a bit more electoral competition - the LDs/Greens have tended to struggle in the White Rose County. Whilst it may be called a wasted vote, people said the same about UKIP etc, IMO the Conservatives would be the most threatened.... with good candidates and a fair wind who knows?
This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.
In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.
* In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.
That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.
But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
For those saying Rafiq was 'young' as an excuse: at 19, the age he made these comments, he had been a senior player at Yorkshire for a year or two, and had captained their under-15 and under-19 sides. He captained England junior sides around this time.
He was integral to the culture of the club at the time he made these comments.
The year before (2010), he had been suspended by the ECB for a month for sending abuse on Twitter. Evidently he did not learn from that...
He deserves exactly the same criticism that he lays out on other players who called him names (not some of the other stuff, though.)
This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.
In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.
* In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.
That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.
But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
In my far off, misspent youth I heard the N-word fairly frequently at school in my small, rural-industrial hometown in West Virginia. Despite the near-total absence of Black people, just one woman, a doctor's maid who I never actually saw.
BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.
Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.
In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?
Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.
We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)
This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.
This is not to excuse the cricketer in question, but when I was at secondary school* "Don't be a Jew" was used by almost every kid when attempting to cadge chocolate or crisps off a school friend.
In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.
* In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.
That’s interesting, because such stereotypes weren’t in our thinking at my secondary school.
But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
In my far off, misspent youth I heard the N-word fairly frequently at school in my small, rural-industrial hometown in West Virginia. Despite the near-total absence of Black people, just one woman, a doctor's maid who I never actually saw.
BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.
Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.
In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?
Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.
We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)
This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.
Actually, he didn’t confess. He was found out. Had he confessed to the select committee that he’d made such comments when he was younger, he’d look incredibly virtuous. But he didn’t.
Comments
This is one example of extremes (from mainstream perspective anyway) on opposite ends coming together via the back way.
1. Britain is small: a bog-standard inter city service will get you between almost all the main population centres in a fairly reasonable time (if you're lucky enough to pick a day when it's working properly, that is)
2. Britain is hopeless at infrastructure projects and has been for at least the last hundred years: they're typically very late, vastly over budget, and often both
3. Most crucially, Britain is absolutely full from top to bottom with nimbies. The Government can't even defend by-elections in the wealthier parts of Buckinghamshire, so deep and visceral is the loathing felt for HS2 by the locals
All that having been said, there's a good argument to be made for throwing the entire project in the dustbin and delivering line upgrades across the North at a fraction of the price. One wonders how much the decision not to do this (or, at most, finish the half-constructed line from London to Birmingham and stop at that) has to do with the appalling optics of not bothering to plumb the North into the system at all, and how much is actually down to the sunk costs fallacy.
Not the points about racism being present in most people and about forgiving youthful misjudgements, both of which I agree with, but what you present as where you're coming from. I think you come from a different place when it comes to Muslims. Quite a jaundiced one. Sorry if that's a misread but there you go.
Some questions for you anyway. You say you hate Rafiq's hypocrisy. What do you mean by that? That because he was antisemitic back then he should have kept his trap shut now about years of racist bullying in his workplace? Should have just sucked it up?
And what about his apology? Is that no good at all for you?
And if you're so keen on cutting slack to a 19 year old for some racist tweets why come straight in with "he's a fucking racist!" - using the present tense and the superstrong racist noun option, plus a 'fucking' for good measure?
It just doesn't scan. YOU don't scan. Not on this subject anyway.
We can debate sentencing if you like
Very much in the vane of that Kendrick Lamar lyric misjudging, possibly intentionally?, the relative sizes of 'Eiffel Tower' and 'Wotld'
Have just begun dipping into the contents, but plenty of documentation already, that general expectation right up to polling day was for Theresa May's Tories to win a solid if not overwhelming majority.
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/712691982813028352
Just voted against HS2 Bill: it is my duty to stand with my constituents facing 20yrs of devastation
https://www.greenparty.org.uk/archive/emergencymotions/2.html
Stella is, well, stellar. One of the best and most empathetic speakers in the party. Should be on the front bench.
Though the former Chief Prosecutor Nazir Afzal is comfortably the most articulate and passionate
Rafiq testified to racism in cricket and particularly at Yorkshire. This should be taken seriously. He also said some antisemitic things as a young man. This shames him but doesn't affect the first thing.
He's apologized. It sounds sincere. It sounds like he's ashamed and has changed. That he isn't antisemitic now. But I don't know for sure. How can I?
As for other people, it's case by case, you can't sensibly say otherwise. So, the context, the circumstances, the actual things said and done, time passed, age of protagonists, the power relationships, credibility, apology or not, tone of it if so, other factors, bla bla.
Tell me what you disagree with in any of the above.
“I'm surprised Yorkshire Cricket Club didn't appoint Shami Chakrabarti to "investigate" the racism at the club.”
https://twitter.com/exstrategist/status/1460548572655534080?s=21
Ok, just get back to your 'high style' wittering about this & that. There's appetite for it, I know, and I don't wish to distract.
The thing I disagree with directly is you still seem to be making a distinction between racism and anti-semitism. What he said was not only anti-Semitic but also racist. Do you accept he made racist comments?
The omission part is that he criticised others for their forgetfulness and has called for them to be sacked yet he appears he was also (give him the benefit of the doubt) forgetful about his own racist comments. Sure, we can forgive him but he doesn’t seem in too keen a mood to forgive others.
A Labour hold surprisingly (not).
Your original point was that we should have fewer, higher quality laws.
In fact, you said we already had laws to deal with the theft of dogs so why introduce a new law. Same point here. We already had laws to deal with hateful language, acts etc so why was new legislation needed?
To lighten the mood, let, in the slightly alcoholic haze typical of my reportage of 'first x post-covid', tell you of my first post-covid gig. The Wedding Present (anyone remember them?), the Ritz, Manchester. Average age of audience must have been in the upper forties, but I did hear some youngsters in the audience next to me discuss what they were doing at school the next day. Anyway, an utterly joyous occasion.
The annoying bit first: 02 venues insist on proof of vaccination or an LFT, so - uninformed of thus beforehand - I had a quick trip to a pharmacy where three other people were also getting LFTs. It was unnecessarily complex to get one - you needed to scan a qr code, which my phone seems unable to do, and register it with the NHS, which, having gone into town with the intention of watching g my glasses and therefore without my glasses, was difficult to achieve. All sorted in the end through basic bloody-mindedness.
Anyway, that over with, it was brilliant. Night clubs, contrary to supposition are very much not dead. Not only first post-covid gig but first covid mosh pit - the joy of which is the same as it ever was.
David Gedge has aged though. But it was, what, 20 years since I last saw them. He's 61 now. I suppose I've probably aged on the last two decades too.
Dai Hard
The Wedding Present - that is a blast from the past
On the 'forgetfulness', ok, but what is your actual point? That those he named should face no consequences? Or that he shouldn't have named anybody? Or just that you personally think ill of him because to you he's more hypocrite than victim? Or what?
I'll say something in Rafiq's favour - he knows how to apologise properly. His apology was a lot better than the mealy-mouthed norm. But, I think he could go further and extend the forgiveness he will hope to receive for his indiscretion to at least some of those he has accused. If his comments about Jews had been made verbally, rather than on an electronic medium where they were preserved, would he have remembered them any more than Vaughan has been able to remember the "your lot" comment?
David Gedge jumped off stage and started dancing with my gf now wife.
Apparently, she was invited backstage. Or so I am told.
There's no indication of any vote on it, so it's impossible to tell whether it was adopted, supported, or slung it.
And going by the reference to EDM 247... it's from 2003.
Poor effort, Matt. Try harder next time.
For interest: the EDM was sponsored by David Amess, and signed by Nick Palmer.
As to your other comment, you are spectacularly missing the point or wilfully neglecting it. Rafiq has been calling for the heads of others and claims that their forgetfulness is a sign they are unrepentant, yet he now asks for forgiveness for his own forgetfulness.
https://fluoridealert.org/news/greens-claim-london-anti-fluoridation-announcement-a-victory-for-whole-country/
Fridays were rarely a clubbing day in my youth - I suppose Friday is where the clubs can maximise their income from the mainstream so the niches get the obscurer days of the week.
If so, this, and what NPXMP was alluding to earlier, could certainly game the FPTP system in the future.
So how on earth is somebody using those standard usage terms implying that they are lesser forms of racist prejudice than other types? This is a ridiculous inference. No?
And your other point - Rafiq was saying the fact people didn't remember indicated how normal it was, not that they were unrepentant. That's what I heard anyway. Maybe there was more. In which case, ok, I see the point.
But again, what's the upshot for you? That those he shamed should face no consequences because he himself has now been shamed? I don't get where you're going with it.
And that's your lot.
Not good. At all.
Thanks so much for keeping me company during the pandemic and making me roughly £500 so far. Please run a fundraiser soon so I can I chuck some money at the Smithsons.
I'm drunk.
A long time lurker since 2010.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/16779926/england-cricketer-alex-hales-pictured-face-black-racism/
GRN: 43.9% (+10.3)
LAB: 30.7% (-6.0)
CON: 23.2% (+0.2)
WPGB: 2.2% (+2.2)
Green GAIN from Labour.
No LDem (-6.8) as prev.
In retrospect, it rather makes me wince.
* In Horsham. And I don't think there were any Jews in the school.
"Why America can’t kick its opioid addiction
Naive policies can't compete with today's drugs
BY OLIVER WISEMAN"
https://unherd.com/2021/11/why-america-cant-kick-its-opioid-addiction/
But I agree that Rafiq doesn’t deserve too much criticism (certainly no more than Ollie Robinson deserves). The YCCC story is awful because it is a bullying scandal.
He was integral to the culture of the club at the time he made these comments.
The year before (2010), he had been suspended by the ECB for a month for sending abuse on Twitter. Evidently he did not learn from that...
He deserves exactly the same criticism that he lays out on other players who called him names (not some of the other stuff, though.)
BTW never heard the n-word from my parents or friends parents (except to warn against it) when I was a kid, and seldom as an adult myself from other adults. At school can't recall hearing it used by or around girls, always just among boys.
Think uttering the N-word was partly reflection of what some kids heard at home or from relatives & family friends, but also some kids wanting to sound tough, edgy, cool or all of the above, among ourselves if not others.
In other words, locker room talk. To which jocks are especially, occupationally susceptible?
Which is a different thing from institutionalized racism and bullying. Albeit very much related, however connections are not always straightforward.
We live, learn . . . and improve. (The Whig Theory of Progress!)
This sportsman has fessed up and repented. His sport should start doing the same.