No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
Wholly phuck. Racism is racism, but antisemitism is just a pretext for racists to hide behind?
The most disappointing post I have seen in 12 years of PBing.
Yes, it’s almost as though anti-semitism is seen as a lesser form of racism, almost acceptable
I'm from Yorkshire, and I used to like DH's headers, but for me this is a wrong turning. The last thing I want to see is an explosion in geographical identity politics within England. Labour needs to develop a serious platform for devolving wealth & power away from London and the Home Counties, then the regions who'd benefit need to vote Labour.
I don't particular mind which party it benefits and who they vote for, but I heartily endorse the sentiment that an explosion of geographical identity politics is the last thing we need. Most of the time its based on fantasy imaginings of county/region identity in any case.
If our national parties continue to be seen as attacking local concerns, then we will see an increase in geographical identity politics (good phrase). This may be a pity, but see Scotland, where FPTP in Westminster combined with general discontent created a local electoral earthquake.
One presumes that geographical identity politics are likely to increase as the gap between London and the regions gets ever larger.
And today demonstrates that Westminster is not really interested in doing anything about that.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
Why does @david_herdson joining the Yorkshire Party matter? Because there has been a growing movement of voters into local, sub-regional and regional parties. When the big parties don't deliver, find a platform to make your demands.
Yorkshire has just been utterly screwed by the Integrated Rail Plan, with basic connectivity improvements not even in scope of a plan that reaches out to 2043. Labour did nowt, Tories are doing nowt, why vote for either?
I've said for a while that the people who abandoned Labour for Brexit and the Tories will then need another new home as the betrayal becomes clear. Today was a Big Step on their journey in recognising they have been screwed.
All hail the Yorkshire Party, your time has come.
For the red wall traditionally labour did little as they didn’t have to as these seats always returned labour MPs, the Tories came along offered the chance of a ore prosperous and levelled up future. People trusted them and their reward was being fucked over. Perhaps the North East Party can do something too, expand on its handful of councillors in Peterlee-sur-la-mer
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
It becomes difficult. For example, take the claims on drinking. Is that racist or not? Arguably, I would say the majority factor was not, mainly that he was forced to drink not because he was Muslim but because that was what the players considered “normal” behaviour. It was though offensive to his religious beliefs.
I never thought I would say this but I agree with Roger’s post 100%
There used to be quite a pub culture when I started in medicine, with us all piling down the pub after the Friday PM teaching for a few pints. That is history now, as the feminisation and multiculturalism nature of the department makes that pub culture increasingly archaic.
Though we do get a good turnout at the Christmas party from a diverse department. Santa arrived with bhangra dancing reindeer...
In the US one thing that makes Thanksgiving approachable and attractive for immigrants from around the world, is the fact that it is firmly non-sectarian and, despite its specific origins and national traditions, broadly multi-cultural.
Even when you remove the myths, and recognize that the Native Americans REALLY got the short end of the wish-bone, at the core is the coming together of the families AND the whole American family.
Plus even atheists are willing to give thanks every now and then!
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
It shouldn't affect what has been revealed, there seems concrete stuff there, but it is of relevance in at least one respect, which was his criticial comments about others forgetting/not seeing historic incidences, as people are now going to ask him how he forgot about this.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
IMV it does have bearing. It shows that the problems with racism might be (ahem) more multi-faceted than he was willing to share. Racism may not just be a problem towards people from the India/Pakistan region, or Muslims, but towards other groups as well.
That's important.
It also shows he's somewhat hypocritical, and perhaps not the most reliable witness to events.
The er... elephant in the room is that in some parts of the world, anti-semitism is preached by the government. And so it has become ingrained in those societies.
Strangely, when people come to this country they don't drop this immediately, all by themselves. This is not challenged directly in public discourse in this country. Lots of euphemisms etc.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
It becomes difficult. For example, take the claims on drinking. Is that racist or not? Arguably, I would say the majority factor was not, mainly that he was forced to drink not because he was Muslim but because that was what the players considered “normal” behaviour. It was though offensive to his religious beliefs.
I never thought I would say this but I agree with Roger’s post 100%
There used to be quite a pub culture when I started in medicine, with us all piling down the pub after the Friday PM teaching for a few pints. That is history now, as the feminisation and multiculturalism nature of the department makes that pub culture increasingly archaic.
Though we do get a good turnout at the Christmas party from a diverse department. Santa arrived with bhangra dancing reindeer...
It was the same in the City when I started although changed over the years. What did start to happen was more fragmentation - no one would go en masse but they would say they were meeting a ‘client’ and then gone the whole afternoon…
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
Wholly phuck. Racism is racism, but antisemitism is just a pretext for racists to hide behind?
The most disappointing post I have seen in 12 years of PBing.
Yes, it’s almost as though anti-semitism is seen as a lesser form of racism, almost acceptable
It's a view that appears to be fairly common in Labour/leftist circles (not all, by a long shot). Hence Jeremy Corbyn being an anti-racist all his life (ha!), yet not recognising (ha! ha!) blatant antisemitism.
Interesting. Perhaps we should have an Essex party too? Or just expanded powers for county/unitary councils to make them closer to those of Scotland and Wales and NI's legislature? Or better still an English Parliament for much of English domestic policy and just make Westminster the UK Federal parliament
The problem with that argument is that Mr Johnson's policies on transport and social care ARE English policies in strict law and practical administration.
For now, if Starmer becomes PM and offers the SNP indyref2 and devomax to get legislation through then Scottish MPs will start voting on English laws to keep Starmer in office and England will be the only home nation without its own parliament if it gets a UK government it did not vote for
Fantasy scaremongering. Unlike what is happening now.
On current polling a very strong possibility actually.
We would swifty move from 'Scotland is being ignored' under PM Boris to 'England is being ignored' under a PM Starmer, especially if England still had a Conservative majority and Starmer was reliant on the SNP to get legislation through.
It would be worse for England as it would not have its own equivalent of Holyrood
Your party has been opposing a separate parliament for England for decades. Bit late to change your mind about what happens when a not big enough minority of voters in England vote Tory.
I have supported an English Parliament ever since 1999
In other words, you've been a bad Tory, no? Seriously, I don't think it was Tory party policy then.
52% of Leave voters back an English Parliament and the vast majority of Tory voters and members now voted Leave in 2016
52% of Leave voters is not even 26% of the population so a rather pointless statistic.
If you had bothered to read the article you would see 41% of English voters overall back an English Parliament (including over a third of English Remainers as well as over half of English Leavers), already close to the number of Scots who vote SNP.
So if Starmer becomes PM despite a Tory majority in England and gets the SNP to vote on English laws in return for indyref2 and devomax expect a surge of English Nationalism to max the surge in Scottish Nationalism since 2014 until England also gets its own Parliament to match those of the other home nations
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Why does @david_herdson joining the Yorkshire Party matter? Because there has been a growing movement of voters into local, sub-regional and regional parties. When the big parties don't deliver, find a platform to make your demands.
Yorkshire has just been utterly screwed by the Integrated Rail Plan, with basic connectivity improvements not even in scope of a plan that reaches out to 2043. Labour did nowt, Tories are doing nowt, why vote for either?
I've said for a while that the people who abandoned Labour for Brexit and the Tories will then need another new home as the betrayal becomes clear. Today was a Big Step on their journey in recognising they have been screwed.
All hail the Yorkshire Party, your time has come.
For the red wall traditionally labour did little as they didn’t have to as these seats always returned labour MPs, the Tories came along offered the chance of a ore prosperous and levelled up future. People trusted them and their reward was being fucked over. Perhaps the North East Party can do something too, expand on its handful of councillors in Peterlee-sur-la-mer
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
Wholly phuck. Racism is racism, but antisemitism is just a pretext for racists to hide behind?
The most disappointing post I have seen in 12 years of PBing.
Yes, it’s almost as though anti-semitism is seen as a lesser form of racism, almost acceptable
It's a view that appears to be fairly common in Labour/leftist circles (not all, by a long shot). Hence Jeremy Corbyn being an anti-racist all his life (ha!), yet not recognising (ha! ha!) blatant antisemitism.
As @Malmesbury said, anti-Semitism has become ingrained in many cultures. As we all know though, Labour depends on many of these voters for many of their seats and hence the constant logic twists to claim that it’s anti-Zionism, not anti-Semitism, together with a few useful idiots from the Jewish community to prove their point.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
IMV it does have bearing. It shows that the problems with racism might be (ahem) more multi-faceted than he was willing to share. Racism may not just be a problem towards people from the India/Pakistan region, or Muslims, but towards other groups as well.
That's important.
It also shows he's somewhat hypocritical, and perhaps not the most reliable witness to events.
It's fairly simple it seems - the bullied can sometimes also bully others. Those subject to racism are not immune from, whether isolated or frequent, doing racist things. He's not seeking to minimise it at least.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
No. A young man - especially one who has been the victim of racial abuse - making a couple of racist comments doesn't make him a racist. The concerted and elongated actions of a group of men to repeatedly target "pakis" is actual racism.
I don’t know why everybody is giving Boris Johnson about his train plans. It’s very simple: there will be lots of trains but if you’re in a rush you can get a private jet to make sure you don’t miss dinner. https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1461409291802492933
Why does @david_herdson joining the Yorkshire Party matter? Because there has been a growing movement of voters into local, sub-regional and regional parties. When the big parties don't deliver, find a platform to make your demands.
Yorkshire has just been utterly screwed by the Integrated Rail Plan, with basic connectivity improvements not even in scope of a plan that reaches out to 2043. Labour did nowt, Tories are doing nowt, why vote for either?
I've said for a while that the people who abandoned Labour for Brexit and the Tories will then need another new home as the betrayal becomes clear. Today was a Big Step on their journey in recognising they have been screwed.
All hail the Yorkshire Party, your time has come.
For the red wall traditionally labour did little as they didn’t have to as these seats always returned labour MPs, the Tories came along offered the chance of a ore prosperous and levelled up future. People trusted them and their reward was being fucked over. Perhaps the North East Party can do something too, expand on its handful of councillors in Peterlee-sur-la-mer
What I will point out to any Red Wall MPs reading this check the history of Redcar from about 2008 onwards and watch what happens when you promise and don't deliver.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
While the Rafiq's anti-semitic pronouncements don't cancel out all that his case revealed, they certainly muddy the waters. I wonder how many of his media allies - and he had a lot - will now quickly pack their bags and go home.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
It becomes difficult. For example, take the claims on drinking. Is that racist or not? Arguably, I would say the majority factor was not, mainly that he was forced to drink not because he was Muslim but because that was what the players considered “normal” behaviour. It was though offensive to his religious beliefs.
I never thought I would say this but I agree with Roger’s post 100%
There used to be quite a pub culture when I started in medicine, with us all piling down the pub after the Friday PM teaching for a few pints. That is history now, as the feminisation and multiculturalism nature of the department makes that pub culture increasingly archaic.
Though we do get a good turnout at the Christmas party from a diverse department. Santa arrived with bhangra dancing reindeer...
In the US one thing that makes Thanksgiving approachable and attractive for immigrants from around the world, is the fact that it is firmly non-sectarian and, despite its specific origins and national traditions, broadly multi-cultural.
Even when you remove the myths, and recognize that the Native Americans REALLY got the short end of the wish-bone, at the core is the coming together of the families AND the whole American family.
Plus even atheists are willing to give thanks every now and then!
Yes, I rather liked Thanksgiving, and my family celebrated for some years after our return.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
To paraphrase Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca, the flaws of individuals do NOT amount to a hill of beans, compared with the institutionalization of racism in organized (or unorganized for that matter) sport.
I think judging the state of his relationship with his wife based on a report of a quip he allegedly made is not going to lead to much use. There'll be poor relationships where such words are never said even in jest, and strong ones where much 'worse' might be said in jest. His gallantry, or lack of it, is not something that really needs looking into when there's so much else to chew on.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Loathe though I am to critique the great man, but I feel like the line could just have been 'Sorry, I don't go as far as Leeds' and it would have worked.
"It would be easy after the events of the past two weeks to dismiss the prime minister as a mere sleazy politician. But it would also be unfair. He’s also a venal, self-serving man – and frequently a cruel one, as the remark about Symonds, whom he married only in late May, shows."
I think judging the state of his relationship with his wife based on a report of a quip he allegedly made is not going to lead to much use. There'll be poor relationships where such words are never said even in jest, and strong ones where much 'worse' might be said in jest. His gallantry, or lack of it, is not something that really needs looking into when there's so much else to chew on.
It is perhaps of more use in calculating how much she is going to get in the divorce.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Those tweets are indicative of antisemitic sentiment at that time in their author. That is undeniable.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
No. A young man - especially one who has been the victim of racial abuse - making a couple of racist comments doesn't make him a racist. The concerted and elongated actions of a group of men to repeatedly target "pakis" is actual racism.
We cannot let YCCC off.
I think it clear - he is a racist who has been subject to racism. Just because he is a victim doesn't mean that he can't be guilty as well.
Boris Johnson is struggling to contain an all-out Tory mutiny tonight with fury that he has 'betrayed' the North by axing flagship plans to 'Level Up' rail. Conservatives MPs and local leaders joined a brutal backlash as the PM tried to defend his 'ambitious and unparalleled' overhaul of inter-city links.
Less than half of the total cost declared today - £40billion - will be new funding because the package includes most of the cost of HS2 from London to Crewe – money already announced. That is much less than would have been spent had the Government gone ahead with its original plans.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
I'm from Yorkshire, and I used to like DH's headers, but for me this is a wrong turning. The last thing I want to see is an explosion in geographical identity politics within England. Labour needs to develop a serious platform for devolving wealth & power away from London and the Home Counties, then the regions who'd benefit need to vote Labour.
I don't particular mind which party it benefits and who they vote for, but I heartily endorse the sentiment that an explosion of geographical identity politics is the last thing we need. Most of the time its based on fantasy imaginings of county/region identity in any case.
Interesting. Perhaps we should have an Essex party too? Or just expanded powers for county/unitary councils to make them closer to those of Scotland and Wales and NI's legislature? Or better still an English Parliament for much of English domestic policy and just make Westminster the UK Federal parliament
I'm all in favour of regional govt as long as we have unitary councils otherwise too many layers. Regardless I am in favour of unitary councils.
I am not opposed to unitary councils, though I would like beefed up powers for town and parish councils too.
That way we get real localism
Localism 2011 already provides the power of general competence, provided your clerk has the necessary qualification. All you need to do it offer to take over stuff from your district council that they can’t afford to run properly, then push up the precept to cover off the costs. Most district councils will be delighted to oblige.
Most parishes are not interested, and the process is not particularly straightforward in many instances, but I am sure it can be encouraged and improved. A lot of places only see their purpose as having the lowest precept possible, not to do stuff though. And with loads of parishes with no councils, or with barely 100 electors, obviously some are just never going to take on more - and in 100 years government has not been interested in cobbling parishes together into more sizable entities, if it means artificially grouping them.
I'm personally relaxed at the concept of greater devolution for England. It's not even clear if the concept England as a political state still useful/relevant. It is one of the largest blocs in Europe (by population size) with a single government. It's not clear to me that the interests of Cornwall and Northumberland are best served under one banner.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
IMV it does have bearing. It shows that the problems with racism might be (ahem) more multi-faceted than he was willing to share. Racism may not just be a problem towards people from the India/Pakistan region, or Muslims, but towards other groups as well.
That's important.
It also shows he's somewhat hypocritical, and perhaps not the most reliable witness to events.
It's fairly simple it seems - the bullied can sometimes also bully others. Those subject to racism are not immune from, whether isolated or frequent, doing racist things. He's not seeking to minimise it at least.
yeah only because he has been found out and cannot (given his perfomance in the Commons) water it down. I think he needs to be disciplined in the same vein as those who he complains about
I think judging the state of his relationship with his wife based on a report of a quip he allegedly made is not going to lead to much use. There'll be poor relationships where such words are never said even in jest, and strong ones where much 'worse' might be said in jest. His gallantry, or lack of it, is not something that really needs looking into when there's so much else to chew on.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
No. A young man - especially one who has been the victim of racial abuse - making a couple of racist comments doesn't make him a racist. The concerted and elongated actions of a group of men to repeatedly target "pakis" is actual racism.
We cannot let YCCC off.
Rafiq's statements back then were racist and based on them it would be reasonable to assume he was racist at the time. But given that was when he was a teenager, whether he is today or not is a wholly separate matter.
And it is all largely irrelevant, racism against racists is not a good or acceptable thing either.
This is a society wide problem, exacerbated by drinking culture and young men being young men, and old men being stubborn and more interested in keeping up appearances than tackling the problems.
The culture needs to change, people involved need to learn more about racism and be honest about what they have done. No one willing to embrace change needs to be lost to the sport.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
It becomes difficult. For example, take the claims on drinking. Is that racist or not? Arguably, I would say the majority factor was not, mainly that he was forced to drink not because he was Muslim but because that was what the players considered “normal” behaviour. It was though offensive to his religious beliefs.
I never thought I would say this but I agree with Roger’s post 100%
There used to be quite a pub culture when I started in medicine, with us all piling down the pub after the Friday PM teaching for a few pints. That is history now, as the feminisation and multiculturalism nature of the department makes that pub culture increasingly archaic.
Though we do get a good turnout at the Christmas party from a diverse department. Santa arrived with bhangra dancing reindeer...
In the US one thing that makes Thanksgiving approachable and attractive for immigrants from around the world, is the fact that it is firmly non-sectarian and, despite its specific origins and national traditions, broadly multi-cultural.
Even when you remove the myths, and recognize that the Native Americans REALLY got the short end of the wish-bone, at the core is the coming together of the families AND the whole American family.
Plus even atheists are willing to give thanks every now and then!
The problem in our household is getting a fresh Turkey a month before Christmas
I think judging the state of his relationship with his wife based on a report of a quip he allegedly made is not going to lead to much use. There'll be poor relationships where such words are never said even in jest, and strong ones where much 'worse' might be said in jest. His gallantry, or lack of it, is not something that really needs looking into when there's so much else to chew on.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
That's a few people who are still blighted by the fact the land is never going to be released. Shame the BBC didn't point that issue out to them - isn't it?
Yep I can see why your happy, but here's the actual reality - northing has changed for you because we are keeping the plan in reserve for when we rediscover it was the cheapest option.
Isn't one issue with any prospective English parliament with any substantial power, the same as the problem of Prussia in Germany from unification to WW2?
Namely having a serious sub-national government with well over half of the national territory, population, economy, etc.
Which is one reason why the Bundesrepublik consists of ländern groß und klein, similar in this respect to US or Brazil.
Absolutely.
Devolution to “England” means that any English First Minister would eventually come into conflict with any U.K. Prime Minister, and the result would be the break up of the U.K.
There is no perfect answer to the West Lothian question, but the best answer IMO is to properly devolve to counties and metros, leaving Westminster to focus largely on foreign policy and overall tax policy etc.
I think the answer is to adopt the Grundesetz. Ideally every federal unit would have the same powers as Scotland currently has. The only problem with that is we have devolved strategic resources such as road and rail to Scotland and I am not sure you would want to do the same to, say, Cornwall or Hampshire
"It would be easy after the events of the past two weeks to dismiss the prime minister as a mere sleazy politician. But it would also be unfair. He’s also a venal, self-serving man – and frequently a cruel one, as the remark about Symonds, whom he married only in late May, shows."
Remarkable, even by his standards.
He really is an awful person. I struggle to find anything redeeming about him. I wish the country had listened to Max Hastings' warnings.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
It may be an error in big Yorkshire cities like Leeds, Sheffield and Bradford for whom faster links to London are a benefit but every seat in those cities is Labour held anyway.
In Yorkshire villages and small towns which are more likely to be part of seats which are Tory or went Tory in 2019 and where properties faced demolition and noise pollution from HS2 I am sceptical this decision will be greeted poorly
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
No. A young man - especially one who has been the victim of racial abuse - making a couple of racist comments doesn't make him a racist. The concerted and elongated actions of a group of men to repeatedly target "pakis" is actual racism.
We cannot let YCCC off.
I don't think I've seen anyone suggesting this should let YCCC off.
I'd also argue that your 'a couple of racist comments' line may well be inaccurate. If you read those texts, the abuse seems utterly unforced. This is a racism that was as ingrained as the racism he is complaining about. I would not be surprised if other similar comments of his emerge as well.
Also, the line " - especially one who has been the victim of racial abuse - " is rather odd. Being the subject to poor behaviour does not give you an excuse to engage in similar behaviour to others. If anything, it should show you how such comments make others feel.
Why does @david_herdson joining the Yorkshire Party matter? Because there has been a growing movement of voters into local, sub-regional and regional parties. When the big parties don't deliver, find a platform to make your demands.
Yorkshire has just been utterly screwed by the Integrated Rail Plan, with basic connectivity improvements not even in scope of a plan that reaches out to 2043. Labour did nowt, Tories are doing nowt, why vote for either?
I've said for a while that the people who abandoned Labour for Brexit and the Tories will then need another new home as the betrayal becomes clear. Today was a Big Step on their journey in recognising they have been screwed.
All hail the Yorkshire Party, your time has come.
For the red wall traditionally labour did little as they didn’t have to as these seats always returned labour MPs, the Tories came along offered the chance of a ore prosperous and levelled up future. People trusted them and their reward was being fucked over. Perhaps the North East Party can do something too, expand on its handful of councillors in Peterlee-sur-la-mer
What I will point out to any Red Wall MPs reading this check the history of Redcar from about 2008 onwards and watch what happens when you promise and don't deliver.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Screw the NIMBYs
The Tories lost Chesham and Amersham in part because of opposition to HS2
I'm from Yorkshire, and I used to like DH's headers, but for me this is a wrong turning. The last thing I want to see is an explosion in geographical identity politics within England. Labour needs to develop a serious platform for devolving wealth & power away from London and the Home Counties, then the regions who'd benefit need to vote Labour.
I don't particular mind which party it benefits and who they vote for, but I heartily endorse the sentiment that an explosion of geographical identity politics is the last thing we need. Most of the time its based on fantasy imaginings of county/region identity in any case.
Interesting. Perhaps we should have an Essex party too? Or just expanded powers for county/unitary councils to make them closer to those of Scotland and Wales and NI's legislature? Or better still an English Parliament for much of English domestic policy and just make Westminster the UK Federal parliament
I'm all in favour of regional govt as long as we have unitary councils otherwise too many layers. Regardless I am in favour of unitary councils.
I am not opposed to unitary councils, though I would like beefed up powers for town and parish councils too.
That way we get real localism
Localism 2011 already provides the power of general competence, provided your clerk has the necessary qualification. All you need to do it offer to take over stuff from your district council that they can’t afford to run properly, then push up the precept to cover off the costs. Most district councils will be delighted to oblige.
Most parishes are not interested, and the process is not particularly straightforward in many instances, but I am sure it can be encouraged and improved. A lot of places only see their purpose as having the lowest precept possible, not to do stuff though. And with loads of parishes with no councils, or with barely 100 electors, obviously some are just never going to take on more - and in 100 years government has not been interested in cobbling parishes together into more sizable entities, if it means artificially grouping them.
I'm personally relaxed at the concept of greater devolution for England. It's not even clear if the concept England as a political state still useful/relevant. It is one of the largest blocs in Europe (by population size) with a single government. It's not clear to me that the interests of Cornwall and Northumberland are best served under one banner.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Screw the NIMBYs
The Tories lost Chesham and Amersham in part because of opposition to HS2
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
I am sceptical this decision will be greeted poorly
Of course you are.
We shall see. Most of the tory swagger on here seems to be rapidly evaporating.
Boris Johnson is struggling to contain an all-out Tory mutiny tonight with fury that he has 'betrayed' the North by axing flagship plans to 'Level Up' rail. Conservatives MPs and local leaders joined a brutal backlash as the PM tried to defend his 'ambitious and unparalleled' overhaul of inter-city links.
Less than half of the total cost declared today - £40billion - will be new funding because the package includes most of the cost of HS2 from London to Crewe – money already announced. That is much less than would have been spent had the Government gone ahead with its original plans.
How much of the £40bn is committed in this parliament? Because today shows no-one should expect it to be delivered in the next parliament.
"It would be easy after the events of the past two weeks to dismiss the prime minister as a mere sleazy politician. But it would also be unfair. He’s also a venal, self-serving man – and frequently a cruel one, as the remark about Symonds, whom he married only in late May, shows."
Remarkable, even by his standards.
He really is an awful person. I struggle to find anything redeeming about him. I wish the country had listened to Max Hastings' warnings.
Mind you, his wife is a complete munter. But I'm allowed to say that, what with having the good fortune of not being married to her.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Screw the NIMBYs
The Tories lost Chesham and Amersham in part because of opposition to HS2
Because it's now a white elephant - cancelled too late, I strangely suspect they will lose the rest of Buckinghamshire as well. The Lib Dems will have a complete field day in 2024 with the now pointless HS2
I think judging the state of his relationship with his wife based on a report of a quip he allegedly made is not going to lead to much use. There'll be poor relationships where such words are never said even in jest, and strong ones where much 'worse' might be said in jest. His gallantry, or lack of it, is not something that really needs looking into when there's so much else to chew on.
Some quip. Some allegedly.
So it was an unfunny comment. Point is making it doesn't necessarily speak as to his relationship with his wife since we don't know what that is like. For all I know she likes his unfunny and inppropriate comments. I'd have no idea whether they are deeply happy or deeply unhappy because he made an unfunny comment about their relationship.
I can suspect he is a bad husband based on past form, but its not worth speculating over when until such a time as they split, we won't 'prove' they have a bad relationship. If she released a statement saying they were deeply in love it's not like it would persuade anyone salivating over that report, and we'd not know if she was being truthful or not.
I'm just uncomfortable delving into the personal lives of politicians when their politics provides enough to go on.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
I think we need to see how it plays out as more detail emerges
Certainly tonight's YouGov with only 28% opposition to the cancellation of HS2E is an early indication that it may not be as unpopular as some hope
"It would be easy after the events of the past two weeks to dismiss the prime minister as a mere sleazy politician. But it would also be unfair. He’s also a venal, self-serving man – and frequently a cruel one, as the remark about Symonds, whom he married only in late May, shows."
Remarkable, even by his standards.
He really is an awful person. I struggle to find anything redeeming about him. I wish the country had listened to Max Hastings' warnings.
I don't get the fuss. He is a philanderer. He has already betrayed her and will betray her again. She knows this surely?
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
As noted previously, renaming the DCLG to the even sillier named DLUHC may have been a mistake.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
It may be an error in big Yorkshire cities like Leeds, Sheffield and Bradford for whom faster links to London are a benefit but every seat in those cities is Labour held anyway.
In Yorkshire villages and small towns which are more likely to be part of seats which are Tory or went Tory in 2019 and where properties faced demolition and noise pollution from HS2 I am sceptical this decision will be greeted poorly
They still face that prospect, the land is not being released so the risk is still there.
When the people discover that I suspect they won't like being misinformed / lied to.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
It becomes difficult. For example, take the claims on drinking. Is that racist or not? Arguably, I would say the majority factor was not, mainly that he was forced to drink not because he was Muslim but because that was what the players considered “normal” behaviour. It was though offensive to his religious beliefs.
I never thought I would say this but I agree with Roger’s post 100%
There used to be quite a pub culture when I started in medicine, with us all piling down the pub after the Friday PM teaching for a few pints. That is history now, as the feminisation and multiculturalism nature of the department makes that pub culture increasingly archaic.
Though we do get a good turnout at the Christmas party from a diverse department. Santa arrived with bhangra dancing reindeer...
In the US one thing that makes Thanksgiving approachable and attractive for immigrants from around the world, is the fact that it is firmly non-sectarian and, despite its specific origins and national traditions, broadly multi-cultural.
Even when you remove the myths, and recognize that the Native Americans REALLY got the short end of the wish-bone, at the core is the coming together of the families AND the whole American family.
Plus even atheists are willing to give thanks every now and then!
The problem in our household is getting a fresh Turkey a month before Christmas
Perhaps on this side of the Atlantic (and Pacific) we should reactivate "Bundles for Britain"?
OR maybe we could arrange for you to get a very special Christmas goose?!?
Personally am not a big fan of turkey UNLESS it is really done right, which in my experience is not often.
How's about a holiday ham?
PS - IF I ask around, sure I can find PLENTY of last-year's fruit cakes to send over . . .
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
Anyone who has a business in W Yorks will be seriously hacked off by this. And those would tend to be Tory voters.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Katherine Birbalsingh said something along the lines of we are all a bit racist. Yet people get cancelled or have their careers ruined because of a dodgy remark they made a decade ago. We have lost sight of the ancient truth that people are flawed. This is essentially the pursuit of purity; the totalitarian dimension of woke. It has to be completely destroyed, and if this means voting for someone like Farage or Trump, then so be it, because this is a catastrophic way to run a society. We need to get back to the position where people just get corrected and censured when they make a mistake, but there should be redemption: No one should have their lives ruined over things like this.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
The atmosphere in the team sounds toxic. However, those texts indicate that the bullying and nastiness might not have all been one way.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
You sir have a blind spot. It is grotesquely unbecoming.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
It may be an error in big Yorkshire cities like Leeds, Sheffield and Bradford for whom faster links to London are a benefit but every seat in those cities is Labour held anyway.
In Yorkshire villages and small towns which are more likely to be part of seats which are Tory or went Tory in 2019 and where properties faced demolition and noise pollution from HS2 I am sceptical this decision will be greeted poorly
They still face that prospect, the land is not being released so the risk is still there.
When the people discover that I suspect they won't like being misinformed / lied to.
My local news tonight was awash with vox pop interviews with delighted house owners who no longer would be threatened with the line coming through their property.
Seems to me the journos had not checked details. The properties are still under orders iirc.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
There will probably be some damage to the Tories in areas that would have been directly served by HS2 eastern arm (Leeds, Broxtowe/Long Eaton for Toton or Chesterfield which would have benefitted from classic compatible services). Tory support in the NE is probably a bit more brittle now as well. In general I think a lot of new Tory voters in the more semi rural red wall seats though don't use trains often though.
The biggest problem though is the obfuscation/slipperyness though. Look at Tory MPs like Alex Stafford and Ben Bradley saying different things.
"It would be easy after the events of the past two weeks to dismiss the prime minister as a mere sleazy politician. But it would also be unfair. He’s also a venal, self-serving man – and frequently a cruel one, as the remark about Symonds, whom he married only in late May, shows."
Remarkable, even by his standards.
He really is an awful person. I struggle to find anything redeeming about him. I wish the country had listened to Max Hastings' warnings.
Can't resist the cheap laugh, even at the expense of his wife. We have a PM who is a grade A shit.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
however it is you who has been inconsistent , nobody else on here i see . Maybe you are the gulity of what you just posted just in the opposite way - you seem to making a lot of excuses for him . Its not a good look frankly
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
As noted previously, renaming the DCLG to the even sillier named DLUHC may have been a mistake.
DCLG is horribly close to DDLG and could lead to terrible, career ending typos. Best to change
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Katherine Birbalsingh said something along the lines of we are all a bit racist. Yet people get cancelled or have their careers ruined because of a dodgy remark they made a decade ago. We have lost sight of the ancient truth that people are flawed. This is essentially the pursuit of purity; the totalitarian dimension of woke. It has to be completely destroyed, and if this means voting for someone like Farage or Trump, then so be it, because this is a catastrophic way to run a society. We need to get back to the position where people just get corrected and censured when they make a mistake, but there should be redemption: No one should have their lives ruined over things like this.
Which is, I think, pretty well what Rafiq himself has said ? (Without the Trump nonsense.)
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
As noted previously, renaming the DCLG to the even sillier named DLUHC may have been a mistake.
DCLG is horribly close to DDLG and could lead to terrible, career ending typos. Best to change
I can't say that one occurred to me! In any case I think it was actually the MHCLG most recently.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Katherine Birbalsingh said something along the lines of we are all a bit racist. Yet people get cancelled or have their careers ruined because of a dodgy remark they made a decade ago. We have lost sight of the ancient truth that people are flawed. This is essentially the pursuit of purity; the totalitarian dimension of woke. It has to be completely destroyed, and if this means voting for someone like Farage or Trump, then so be it, because this is a catastrophic way to run a society. We need to get back to the position where people just get corrected and censured when they make a mistake, but there should be redemption: No one should have their lives ruined over things like this.
Trump tried to stage a coup when he lost the election, but you honestly think he is less of a threat to society than occasionally over-zealous campaigners against the pernicious evil of racism? Crazy.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Anyone who knows anyone that lives east of the Pennines knows what an utter nightmare the current rail transport infrastructure is. I've friends going on about it for years.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
It may be an error in big Yorkshire cities like Leeds, Sheffield and Bradford for whom faster links to London are a benefit but every seat in those cities is Labour held anyway.
In Yorkshire villages and small towns which are more likely to be part of seats which are Tory or went Tory in 2019 and where properties faced demolition and noise pollution from HS2 I am sceptical this decision will be greeted poorly
They still face that prospect, the land is not being released so the risk is still there.
When the people discover that I suspect they won't like being misinformed / lied to.
My local news tonight was awash with vox pop interviews with delighted house owners who no longer would be threatened with the line coming through their property.
Seems to me the journos had not checked details. The properties are still under orders iirc.
Yep - it's going to be a nasty surprise especially as they rush to sell.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Katherine Birbalsingh said something along the lines of we are all a bit racist. Yet people get cancelled or have their careers ruined because of a dodgy remark they made a decade ago. We have lost sight of the ancient truth that people are flawed. This is essentially the pursuit of purity; the totalitarian dimension of woke. It has to be completely destroyed, and if this means voting for someone like Farage or Trump, then so be it, because this is a catastrophic way to run a society. We need to get back to the position where people just get corrected and censured when they make a mistake, but there should be redemption: No one should have their lives ruined over things like this.
Which is, I think, pretty well what Rafiq himself has said ?
Probably without the bit about voting for someone like Trump. Otherwise I'd also have agreed. I think such a problem as exists can be had without that being the solution.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Katherine Birbalsingh said something along the lines of we are all a bit racist. Yet people get cancelled or have their careers ruined because of a dodgy remark they made a decade ago. We have lost sight of the ancient truth that people are flawed. This is essentially the pursuit of purity; the totalitarian dimension of woke. It has to be completely destroyed, and if this means voting for someone like Farage or Trump, then so be it, because this is a catastrophic way to run a society. We need to get back to the position where people just get corrected and censured when they make a mistake, but there should be redemption: No one should have their lives ruined over things like this.
There should absolutely be redemption from racism, however extreme. There is a good story on the bbc about an American ex neo-nazi who has turned it around. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-59171107
For racist tweets from ten years ago, careers should not be ruined, if any action is required it is simply some awareness training. If YCCC had got to the bottom of the problem when the initial complaints came in, changed the culture and trained their staff it would have been a non story.
But that does not mean we can or should avoid honest discussions about the problems of racism and institutional racism. They are vital to drive change, the problem is those trying to avoid those discussions at least as much as those on the other side asking for too severe and unhelpful punishments for those involved.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
For me that Rafiq has said antisemitic things has no bearing on what he's revealed about racism in cricket. What it does do is provide material for the next muslim-baiting Rod Liddle column. He'll be tapping away now, I imagine.
So the guy who complains about ‘inhuman racism’ is a fucking racist
He is also a total fucking hypocrite
I have zero interest in softhead prejudiced ravings on this matter. And stop typing 'fucking' the whole time. It's fucking tedious to read. Especially for someone (me) who's just had both booster AND flu jab on the same day.
Ok, let’s make this simple. Given Rafiq’s tweets, do you think he is a racist? Yes or no?
Referring to someone as a Jew in a third party communication because they are tight-fisted is clearly racist. We don't know if the person is Jewish, quite probably not. It sounds a bit old-fashioned to me, the sort of terminology used in the playground when I was a kid, say 45 years ago.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Katherine Birbalsingh said something along the lines of we are all a bit racist. Yet people get cancelled or have their careers ruined because of a dodgy remark they made a decade ago. We have lost sight of the ancient truth that people are flawed. This is essentially the pursuit of purity; the totalitarian dimension of woke. It has to be completely destroyed, and if this means voting for someone like Farage or Trump, then so be it, because this is a catastrophic way to run a society. We need to get back to the position where people just get corrected and censured when they make a mistake, but there should be redemption: No one should have their lives ruined over things like this.
Which is, I think, pretty well what Rafiq himself has said ?
Probably without the bit about voting for someone like Trump. Otherwise I'd also have agreed. I think such a problem as exists can be had without that being the solution.
Yes, I just edited my post. The Trump bit is just silly.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Bollocks, bollocks, bollocks.
It is embarrassing how obviously you are drawing a distinction between *technical* racism, like against jews, and actual racism, against darkies.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Quite the opposite. I think we are all a little bit racist, and this may show when we are young and foolish, AND IT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
The first I heard about the story was a couple of weeks ago and quite clearly remember Rafiq saying he had said many things he regrets and should not have said when he was younger.
Re HS2 i have always thought it a stupid project and i generally like infrastructure projects - even Boris' garden bridge seemed fine to me. I
HS2 is a sensible project when you understand the need for additional capacity and the impact multiple speeds on a single track has on total capacity.
We literally go from 10 trains an hour to 30 just by adding the extra set of tracks. And 10 of those additional trains can be local services that simply can't be run at the moment.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
As noted previously, renaming the DCLG to the even sillier named DLUHC may have been a mistake.
DCLG is horribly close to DDLG and could lead to terrible, career ending typos. Best to change
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
As noted previously, renaming the DCLG to the even sillier named DLUHC may have been a mistake.
DCLG is horribly close to DDLG and could lead to terrible, career ending typos. Best to change
DDLG? Dildo Developer Loses Grip?
Thought it might be Brit bra size of Leon's dream date?
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Screw the NIMBYs
The Tories lost Chesham and Amersham in part because of opposition to HS2
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
'Levelling up' feels dead in the waters of the rivers Aire and Don tonight to me.
But I have been wrong before.
I think we need to see how it plays out as more detail emerges
Certainly tonight's YouGov with only 28% opposition to the cancellation of HS2E is an early indication that it may not be as unpopular as some hope
A lot of people have been conditioned to think HS2 is a white elephant, so its not that much of a surprise. But they expect levelling up and investment. And when you peel away the headlines you find this isn't even a plan to invest, just an uncosted wish list.
Ask the former MPs of Burnley or Redcar how people feel when they get promised stuff that isn't delivered.
No, he has confirmed it is, and is ashamed of his behaviour. What more do you want him to do?
A good apology too.
There's a difference between bad remarks made by people years ago that they apologise for when brought up - and doing racist stuff today and covering it up when people complain.
Sure, but isn't this whole story about what people did years ago?
No, the Rafiq stuff is about now.
You've got people in charge at Yorkshire right now who think using Zimbo for Zimbabwe is racist and worth of disciplinary action but calling someone a Paki isn't.
The problem with this 'find the racist game' is that it's open to any number of players and can veer in unexpected directions as Rafiq is now finding out. His testimony has effectively wrecked the career of an ex England captain and exposed himself as not only a racist but a hypocrite so will probably wreck his own future career as well.
These witch hunts are extremely ugly and should be stopped before they get out of hand. An unpopular cricketer was bullied under the noses of his employers and for this they have questions to answer. But leave the racism out of it.
How does one separate the racism from the bullying when the nature of the bullying was racist?
I obviously wasn't clear otherwise Ed wouldn't have agreed with me. I started by saying in order to do what rafiq has done 'you'd have to be whiter than white...' I wrote it without thinking and changed it to something else and then changed tack completely.
.......My point was that any charge of racism trumps everything. You can lose your job with a word in the wrong place. Maybe that's fair but everyone of us has done it at least inadvertently. If suggesting Rafiq should return his £200,000 to YCC because he was no better than those he accuses is mad.
It wasn't the magic word 'racism' that earned him that £200,000 it was the bullying. Do I think he's a racist who should lose £200,000 and the possibility of future earnings because something he said comes under the category racism? No I don't. This thing had become silly and has a whiff of McCarthyism to boot.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
It doesn't matter if it's a free vote or a whipped vote - the vote they decide to make will be noted and used against them at the next election.
Yup if they vote in favour then it's curtains in 2024 anyway. At least if they vote this down and Boris gets axed they've got a shot.
Is there evidence there is huge demand in the RedWall for an HS2 to Leeds?
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
Screw the NIMBYs
The Tories lost Chesham and Amersham in part because of opposition to HS2
Because it's now a white elephant - cancelled too late, I strangely suspect they will lose the rest of Buckinghamshire as well. The Lib Dems will have a complete field day in 2024 with the now pointless HS2
Its not pointless. But it does have a white elephant nature about it. They're committed to build to Birmingham with a connection onto the WCML. Thats all. The rest is a wish list. And with the whole rest of the "Integrated Rail Plan" now a largely uncosted wish list there is going to be an endless series of reviews where chunks can be culled.
Comments
And today demonstrates that Westminster is not really interested in doing anything about that.
"On track for disaster? PM faces all-out Tory mutiny over rail 'betrayal' with fury he is dooming the North to 100 YEARS of misery by axing flagship 'Levelling Up' plans - and demands for MPs to get a free vote"
Even when you remove the myths, and recognize that the Native Americans REALLY got the short end of the wish-bone, at the core is the coming together of the families AND the whole American family.
Plus even atheists are willing to give thanks every now and then!
Strangely, when people come to this country they don't drop this immediately, all by themselves. This is not challenged directly in public discourse in this country. Lots of euphemisms etc.
So if Starmer becomes PM despite a Tory majority in England and gets the SNP to vote on English laws in return for indyref2 and devomax expect a surge of English Nationalism to max the surge in Scottish Nationalism since 2014 until England also gets its own Parliament to match those of the other home nations
We cannot let YCCC off.
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1461409291802492933
An extraordinarily ungallant comment from Boris Johnson about his wife, Carrie. How on Earth did he judge this appropriate?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/james-ball-boris-johnson-tory-sleaze/ https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1461398582263783430/photo/1
Christmas is pretty secular for most Britons too.
It is quite clearly different in scale and quality to persistent racial bullying that Azim Rafiq has described.
Just ain't cricket.
Certainly campaigners who faced their properties being demolished because they were in its path, including as far north as Bramley, Rotherham, are elated it has been scrapped
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043
"It would be easy after the events of the past two weeks to dismiss the prime minister as a mere sleazy politician. But it would also be unfair. He’s also a venal, self-serving man – and frequently a cruel one, as the remark about Symonds, whom he married only in late May, shows."
Remarkable, even by his standards.
As for now, I don't know. Obviously I don't. So why are you asking me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kS-vk9mPR8
Boris comes off the rails!
Boris Johnson is struggling to contain an all-out Tory mutiny tonight with fury that he has 'betrayed' the North by axing flagship plans to 'Level Up' rail. Conservatives MPs and local leaders joined a brutal backlash as the PM tried to defend his 'ambitious and unparalleled' overhaul of inter-city links.
Less than half of the total cost declared today - £40billion - will be new funding because the package includes most of the cost of HS2 from London to Crewe – money already announced. That is much less than would have been spent had the Government gone ahead with its original plans.
This is another disastrous error by Johnson.
And it is all largely irrelevant, racism against racists is not a good or acceptable thing either.
This is a society wide problem, exacerbated by drinking culture and young men being young men, and old men being stubborn and more interested in keeping up appearances than tackling the problems.
The culture needs to change, people involved need to learn more about racism and be honest about what they have done. No one willing to embrace change needs to be lost to the sport.
Yep I can see why your happy, but here's the actual reality - northing has changed for you because we are keeping the plan in reserve for when we rediscover it was the cheapest option.
But I have been wrong before.
In Yorkshire villages and small towns which are more likely to be part of seats which are Tory or went Tory in 2019 and where properties faced demolition and noise pollution from HS2 I am sceptical this decision will be greeted poorly
I'd also argue that your 'a couple of racist comments' line may well be inaccurate. If you read those texts, the abuse seems utterly unforced. This is a racism that was as ingrained as the racism he is complaining about. I would not be surprised if other similar comments of his emerge as well.
Also, the line " - especially one who has been the victim of racial abuse - " is rather odd. Being the subject to poor behaviour does not give you an excuse to engage in similar behaviour to others. If anything, it should show you how such comments make others feel.
We shall see. Most of the tory swagger on here seems to be rapidly evaporating.
I can suspect he is a bad husband based on past form, but its not worth speculating over when until such a time as they split, we won't 'prove' they have a bad relationship. If she released a statement saying they were deeply in love it's not like it would persuade anyone salivating over that report, and we'd not know if she was being truthful or not.
I'm just uncomfortable delving into the personal lives of politicians when their politics provides enough to go on.
Certainly tonight's YouGov with only 28% opposition to the cancellation of HS2E is an early indication that it may not be as unpopular as some hope
When the people discover that I suspect they won't like being misinformed / lied to.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/11/18/so-are-we-cancelling-azeem-rafiq/
OR maybe we could arrange for you to get a very special Christmas goose?!?
Personally am not a big fan of turkey UNLESS it is really done right, which in my experience is not often.
How's about a holiday ham?
PS - IF I ask around, sure I can find PLENTY of last-year's fruit cakes to send over . . .
And those would tend to be Tory voters.
That many people whose eyes usually glaze over with boredom or who seek to empathize with or find excuses for white men accused of racism/misogyny suddenly, when the racism/misogyny is coming from a Muslim source, leap into action and become absolute IRON.
Seems to me the journos had not checked details. The properties are still under orders iirc.
The biggest problem though is the obfuscation/slipperyness though. Look at Tory MPs like Alex Stafford and Ben Bradley saying different things.
We have a PM who is a grade A shit.
What I despise - and what makes me angry - is double standards and hypocrisy. Like this guy Rafiq
When he was accusing every one else of inhuman racism, did he forget that he is also a racist, or did he just hope that no one would notice that he is a racist?
(Without the Trump nonsense.)
For racist tweets from ten years ago, careers should not be ruined, if any action is required it is simply some awareness training. If YCCC had got to the bottom of the problem when the initial complaints came in, changed the culture and trained their staff it would have been a non story.
But that does not mean we can or should avoid honest discussions about the problems of racism and institutional racism. They are vital to drive change, the problem is those trying to avoid those discussions at least as much as those on the other side asking for too severe and unhelpful punishments for those involved.
The Trump bit is just silly.
It is embarrassing how obviously you are drawing a distinction between *technical* racism, like against jews, and actual racism, against darkies.
We literally go from 10 trains an hour to 30 just by adding the extra set of tracks. And 10 of those additional trains can be local services that simply can't be run at the moment.
Ask the former MPs of Burnley or Redcar how people feel when they get promised stuff that isn't delivered.
.......My point was that any charge of racism trumps everything. You can lose your job with a word in the wrong place. Maybe that's fair but everyone of us has done it at least inadvertently. If suggesting Rafiq should return his £200,000 to YCC because he was no better than those he accuses is mad.
It wasn't the magic word 'racism' that earned him that £200,000 it was the bullying. Do I think he's a racist who should lose £200,000 and the possibility of future earnings because something he said comes under the category racism? No I don't. This thing had become silly and has a whiff of McCarthyism to boot.