Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

It is still odds-on that BoJo will survive as PM till 2024 or later – politicalbetting.com

12357

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kamski said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    Charles said:

    Leon said:

    @Charles and @MaxPB and @Richard_Nabavi

    You guys know about this stuff. If the FDA and its brethren accelerate approval of the Pfizer drug, how long before they can ramp up production and these pills reach Europe? What's a likely time-scale?

    It feels like Europe - the mainland anyway - is now in a sprint between the winter wave and the arrival of these antivirals

    The site will already have been inspected and approved. Little white pills can be churned out very quickly. It only depends if there is any bespoke equipment needed, which I doubt
    Ta. So it's all about approval. And then they arrive days later? Could be a total game-changer

    Pfizer say they will seek approval in the USA by Thanksgiving: November 25

    I imagine that approval will be miraculously swift, if the pills are as good as they seem. So they *could* be in European mouths by Christmas, if the EMA is as nimble?
    You need the site inspection by the EMA as well as the dossier review.
    So what's a likely time-scale, in your opinion? How long before these arrive at a GP near you or Kamski?
    Depends how quickly Pfizer file with the EMA but they are not quick. Travel logistics for the site inspection will be tricky as well
    Could you put a figure on it? Sorry to harangue you but you have expertise

    Ten weeks? Twenty?

    The difference could be utterly crucial as cases and deaths begin to rise in Europe
    There's a very curious north-south divide in Europe right now: Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark (which had previously been completely spared) are all seeing soaring cases, while in the South the numbers have barely budged. I wonder how much of this is weather related.
    I think the long period of good late summer/early autumn weather here in Germany played a big part in keeping numbers relatively low up until recently. But there's also:

    Vaccination rates in Portugal and Spain and Italy are higher than in Germany. I blame the strong German tradition of "alternative" medicine.

    Regulations are stricter in some places (definitely in Italy), and seem to be much more strictly enforced in both Italy and Spain. Enforcement of the few rules (mainly 3g rules) is very lax in my experience round here. It's the freedom-loving Germans again!

    Numbers with immunity from prior infection are probably also quite a bit lower.


    What happened to that guy with the immunological dark matter theory?
    The vaccine split in Germany is almost entirely East-West.
    Not entirely. Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg have fewer vaccinated than Meck-Pomm and Berlin. Also I would be a bit suspicious of how accurate the numbers are.

    https://impfdashboard.de/
    The top seven states are all in the West, and the bottom four are all in the former DDR!

    Isn't the West also meaningfully younger than the East (except Berlin)? Which means that the effective vaccination rates are even worse for the East than the headline numbers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited November 2021
    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    kinabalu said:



    Fuck? As in, a word that's become less offensive over time. When I were a lad, it was a complete no-no, whereas these days - well, I believe it's very common, even on television and in the cinema......

    I still couldn't say it in earshot of my parents but, yes, these days it's more a case of you're a bit unusual if you don't spray that around. I watched a Bob Dylan doc recently and the (still) angelic looking Joan Baez when being interviewed could not get through a sentence without a dozen or so fucks. It was slightly disconcerting.
    My parents were incredibly averse to swearing - over 35 years with them, the most severe expression they ever used was "bloody". The perhaps perverse result was that when I first met a girl who said fuck, I thought it was incredibly sexy and liberating. Many years later, when I worked as PPS for Margaret Beckett, who said it all the time in the sober environment of Defra, I still got a modest thrill out of it. An innocent soul.

    The best swearing ever is Spitting Image's DoE - 'bloody, bloody Duke of Endinburgh'
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,900
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    Thank you. I was short of context. That casts an entirely different light on it.

    (I'm being serious)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    glw said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    She is a crank, and neatly illustrates the old maxim that perfect is the enemy of good.
    But thinking it through, on this early Friday evening/late afternoon. If everyone who really, really cared about climate change were to amend their behaviour dramatically then that would be problem solved.

    A bit like if people only stopped buying the Daily Mail and/or started buying the Socialist Worker those newspapers would experience a dramatic change of fortune.
    The number of people who really, really care about climate change drops as soon as they have to change their lifestyle or pay up.
    Which is why we are not going to stop it. So 3 billion climate refugees by 2070...

    Great date that, 2070. Just out of reach.

    But no one seems to be taking it seriously. So I wonder.
    There are testable predictions, though. Two I have heard recently are no skiing in the Alps and no champagne from Champagne by 2050. I expect to be around to see for myself how these turn out.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    glw said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    She is a crank, and neatly illustrates the old maxim that perfect is the enemy of good.
    But thinking it through, on this early Friday evening/late afternoon. If everyone who really, really cared about climate change were to amend their behaviour dramatically then that would be problem solved.

    A bit like if people only stopped buying the Daily Mail and/or started buying the Socialist Worker those newspapers would experience a dramatic change of fortune.
    The number of people who really, really care about climate change drops as soon as they have to change their lifestyle or pay up.
    Which is why we are not going to stop it. So 3 billion climate refugees by 2070...

    Great date that, 2070. Just out of reach.

    But no one seems to be taking it seriously. So I wonder.
    There are testable predictions, though. Two I have heard recently are no skiing in the Alps and no champagne from Champagne by 2050. I expect to be around to see for myself how these turn out.
    Pretty random. It's a posho climate apocalypse then?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,817
    edited November 2021
    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Fairly confident that George Square won't be smashed up by these guys.

    https://twitter.com/stuart_gibson/status/1456623954135822338?s=20

    Note the total acceptance that Divvie will be an #indyref3 type.

    How long does PB have to put up with his garbage?
    FWIW I don't think theuniondivvie is right. There won't be a third. I think the independence side will win the second one.
    If SNP Types could just accept the result of the last referendum - that might allow for a potential #indyref2 at some point in the future.

    As it is all PBers will just have to cope with constant SNP Type wittering pretty much 24/7.
    PB is open to wittering from SNP Types just as it is to wittering from Conservative Types, Labour Types, Lib Dem Types, Green Types, Brexit Party or whatever the fuck they're called these days Types, and even People Who Don't Belong In A Type Types.

    I don't know which Type you are, but please continue to post your Type's witterings too.
    I'm a Yoon Type and am very much grateful that I'm allowed to witter by Team OGH.

    Seems only fair given the abundance of SNP Types here, Balance and all that.
    Well it seems to me that you redress this obvious imbalance with the sound logic and quiet dignity of your arguments.
    For some reason I'm reminded of the then Ms Ruth Davidson who spent almost her entire career as leader of the SCUP denouncing the very idea of indyref2 and attacking the waste of time spent on it by means of discussing it extensively in every corner of the media, any moment of time, and every scrap of paper she could fill.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132

    And the gloom update is in:


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    8m
    Replying to
    @chrischirp
    There was a reduction in both LFD and PCR tests over half term, so take drop in reported cases with a grain of salt over half term.

    She really is stupid. That means that last week's number will likely have been lower than the real number, and therefore the drop is larger.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,817
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    glw said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    She is a crank, and neatly illustrates the old maxim that perfect is the enemy of good.
    But thinking it through, on this early Friday evening/late afternoon. If everyone who really, really cared about climate change were to amend their behaviour dramatically then that would be problem solved.

    A bit like if people only stopped buying the Daily Mail and/or started buying the Socialist Worker those newspapers would experience a dramatic change of fortune.
    The number of people who really, really care about climate change drops as soon as they have to change their lifestyle or pay up.
    Which is why we are not going to stop it. So 3 billion climate refugees by 2070...

    Great date that, 2070. Just out of reach.

    But no one seems to be taking it seriously. So I wonder.
    There are testable predictions, though. Two I have heard recently are no skiing in the Alps and no champagne from Champagne by 2050. I expect to be around to see for myself how these turn out.
    The shampoo will be coming from Yorkshire by then.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    HYUFD said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    The latest polling still has the Tories comfortably winning most seats and most polls still have Boris preferred as PM to Starmer.

    Unless that changes, Boris will survive up to 2024. Plus of course the longer he stays as PM the more his valued on the lecture circuit increases post Premiership. If he wants to be in the Blair and Thatcher league of speakers and earning millions on the lecture circuit he needs to be there for a decade at least

    How many points ahead do Labour have to be for most seats crossover?
    40 to 37 just manages it on new boundaries if everyone else stays the same.
    Ominously, no majority is possible on those numbers without the SNP.
    Except Grand Coalition of course.
    Labour's SNP problem never seems to go away. The only way it would is if somehow another independence referendum is held before the next election and the pro-Indy side loses it, which would mean they wouldn't be able to demand another one from Labour so soon.
    Yeah.
    Although the really interesting thing about 40-37 is that there would be no combination which would produce a majority at all. Apart from 3.
    Lab SNP.
    CON SNP
    LAB CON.

    You would feel the SNP would be in a strong position. Would not like to speculate what might happen.
    And how would voters behave if that were the prospect? Difficult to say.
    Labour have been soft on the indyref2 for a while now. A Lab-SNP coaltion doesn't seem that unlikely.
    Starmer would likely give the SNP indyref2 if he needs their confidence and supply to become PM in a hung parliament.

    Probably with devomax as a carrot to Scots to try and get them to vote No again
    I agree with this analysis apart from the devomax bit (although you may be right there too)

    Us Yoons know that Tories/Bozo are best for the union.
    Why don't you want to have the vote, win it, and kill Sindy off good and proper instead of this 'delay delay' approach?
    You won't kill Sindy off unless a second vote is held a genuine generation after 2014, which is at minimum 10-15 years after. Canada proved that when the second Quebec independence referendum was only held in 1995, 15 years after the first in 1980.

    Otherwise the SNP would demand indyref3 the next day you already having given in to them once and held indyref2 within a generation of indyref1, unless No won by a landslide
    You will never kill off indyrefs

    I have lived with them since the early 1950s
    There's only been one!
    The threat has been there since then, and remember Berwick where I lived in the early fifties has changed hands 13 times
    You've changed your mind then? Last time I posted my opinion that the best way forward was to have the vote rather than frustrate it, you were a big 'yay' to that. I remember distinctly since I thought, "Oh, Big G agrees with me on this, excellent."
    Yes I am not adverse to indyref2 as I believe it is winnable
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited November 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    And somebody's unearthed a Vaughan tweet from 2018 in which he says essentially that what this country needs is a leader like Trump. Cancel him, I say.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132

    Sandpit said:

    And the gloom update is in:


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    8m
    Replying to
    @chrischirp
    There was a reduction in both LFD and PCR tests over half term, so take drop in reported cases with a grain of salt over half term.

    What on Earth are Christina and friends going to do once there’s no more pandemic, and a dozen journalists and TV producers no longer have them on speed dial?
    She's got one thing right:


    Prof. Christina Pagel
    @chrischirp
    ·
    15m
    Although two thirds of over 75s are boosted, almost all of them are elgibile. In general, only about 55% of those who got their 2nd dose 6+ mnths ago have been boosted. We need to match the 500K a day we were doing in winter and spring!

    ====

    Action this day.
    "only about 55% of those who got their 2nd dose 6+ mnths ago have been boosted"

    Considering the UK only started about six weeks ago, and that the number getting boosted is ramping, I don't think the UK is doing too badly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
    No, there is a huge difference between "you lot" and the P word

    "You lot" really could be anything. You need a window into his soul to see if he meant it in a racist way. Perhaps he did, but maybe he didn't.

    P*ki is clearly racist and derogatory and a different kettle of unhappy fish
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,125

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    And somebody's unearthed a Vaughan tweet from 2018 saying essentially that what this country needs is a leader like Trump. Cancel him, I say.
    Yep, that's it, I'm afraid. That's appalling and I totally mean it. Thank goodness he's from Lancashire.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    glw said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    She is a crank, and neatly illustrates the old maxim that perfect is the enemy of good.
    In our house, we don't let average be the enemy of barely acceptable.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    edited November 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Fairly confident that George Square won't be smashed up by these guys.

    https://twitter.com/stuart_gibson/status/1456623954135822338?s=20

    Note the total acceptance that Divvie will be an #indyref3 type.

    How long does PB have to put up with his garbage?
    FWIW I don't think theuniondivvie is right. There won't be a third. I think the independence side will win the second one.
    If SNP Types could just accept the result of the last referendum - that might allow for a potential #indyref2 at some point in the future.

    As it is all PBers will just have to cope with constant SNP Type wittering pretty much 24/7.
    PB is open to wittering from SNP Types just as it is to wittering from Conservative Types, Labour Types, Lib Dem Types, Green Types, Brexit Party or whatever the fuck they're called these days Types, and even People Who Don't Belong In A Type Types.

    I don't know which Type you are, but please continue to post your Type's witterings too.
    I'm a Yoon Type and am very much grateful that I'm allowed to witter by Team OGH.

    Seems only fair given the abundance of SNP Types here, Balance and all that.
    Well it seems to me that you redress this obvious imbalance with the sound logic and quiet dignity of your arguments.
    For some reason I'm reminded of the then Ms Ruth Davidson who spent almost her entire career as leader of the SCUP denouncing the very idea of indyref2 and attacking the waste of time spent on it by means of discussing it extensively in every corner of the media, any moment of time, and every scrap of paper she could fill.
    We all know where your allegiance is with regards to #indyref2
  • kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    And somebody's unearthed a Vaughan tweet from 2018 saying essentially that what this country needs is a leader like Trump. Cancel him, I say.
    He got his wish for all the good it’s done him (or the rest of us).
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    This seems odd. Who cares about a referendum many years past. K - you're better than this.
  • ajb said:

    The thing that is always said about how long he’ll be in Number 10 is that his salary as PM is nowhere what he was earning from journalism before he became leader and PM and it is said that he is under pressure financially. I have always thought that it will be this factor that could be decisive.


    This assumes there are two possibilities:
    • Johnson quits to get a better salary
    • Johnson stays on and his salary stays the same
    But really, what's stopping him giving himself a raise? Do we really think he'd be too embarrassed?

    Even if you think he wouldn't do it now for political reasons, that's no reason to think he would step down before an election, when he could be counting on the idea of increasing his pay after any win.

    I am not much of a bettor, but I definitely wouldn't bet on Johnson lacking chutzspa or deferring to ethics.
    He'd not actually be totally unjustified. I'm not going to wheel out the tiny violin, but UK leaders aren't hugely well paid (he's on a lot less than Jacinda Ardern for instance).

    Is it a major priority? No. Would I do it in his place? No. Would there be an uproar? Yes. But it'd actually be a hell of a lot better than the approach he does in fact take of accepting lavish freebies and favours from secretive donors with a cocktail of ulterior motives. If the trade-off was he'd knock that off and settle for the salary, that's a bit of a win. Of course, the problem is he'd most likely do both.
    100 years ago the Prime Minister was on £10,000 a year, not a bad screw for the times, and about half a million in modern pound coins. Otoh backbenchers were unpaid as they were expected to make money during the day and legislate at night.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited November 2021
    Farooq said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    And somebody's unearthed a Vaughan tweet from 2018 saying essentially that what this country needs is a leader like Trump. Cancel him, I say.
    Yep, that's it, I'm afraid. That's appalling and I totally mean it. Thank goodness he's from Lancashire.
    I'd rather be a Yorkie than a Vaughan
    V sad, i think Vaughan is ok.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Further thought. The arrival, we hope, of an extremely effective treatment for Covid-19, vindicates - potentially - the countries which have gone for Zero Covid. If they can just hold out for a few more months, they will be able to relax all restrictions knowing that the vast majority of people are now safe, because of the antivirals

    They will have avoided mass deaths and suffering, albeit at the expense of rigorous lockdowns, isolation and quarantines

    Up to a point, milord. The regimen for the antivirals is pretty ruthless: you have to spot covidians within three days of infection. So, quite a lot is bound to slip the net, surely, unless you test everyone every day?!
    Three days of symptom onset isn't it? Which would be far easier.
    I read "five days", somewhere, which is even better. But there's lots of conflicting info and opinion as this potentially game-changing news impacts

    Certainly Pfizer shares are doing pretty nicely
    That’s because they will make a shitload of cash from the vaccine.
    This year and next.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,125
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    This seems odd. Who cares about a referendum many years past. K - you're better than this.
    I just mean the strong correlation between hard hard leavers and liking Trump and - as night follows day - fruity social views. It is the case, with usual caveats of #not all hard hard leavers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited November 2021
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
    No, there is a huge difference between "you lot" and the P word

    "You lot" really could be anything. You need a window into his soul to see if he meant it in a racist way. Perhaps he did, but maybe he didn't.

    P*ki is clearly racist and derogatory and a different kettle of unhappy fish
    Bloke addressing bunch of sth Asian guys: "You lot".

    Yes good point super ambiguous let's see if we can unpick the semiotics of that one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    TOPPING said:

    .

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    glw said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    She is a crank, and neatly illustrates the old maxim that perfect is the enemy of good.
    But thinking it through, on this early Friday evening/late afternoon. If everyone who really, really cared about climate change were to amend their behaviour dramatically then that would be problem solved.

    A bit like if people only stopped buying the Daily Mail and/or started buying the Socialist Worker those newspapers would experience a dramatic change of fortune.
    The number of people who really, really care about climate change drops as soon as they have to change their lifestyle or pay up.
    Which is why we are not going to stop it. So 3 billion climate refugees by 2070...

    Great date that, 2070. Just out of reach.

    But no one seems to be taking it seriously. So I wonder.
    Based on this FT model the other day. Half a century away. I am old enough to remember the Beatles breaking up, so remember 50 years ago. I don't expect to be around in 2070 but would rather like my boys to be.

    https://www.ft.com/content/072b5c87-7330-459b-a947-be6767a1099d
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    I think she's rather good. She's quite careful as to what she says. Her supporters are the problem.

    Have you seen the Extinction Rebellion founder's "Advice to Young People as they face Annihilation"?

    https://twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1455644914327379978

    image
    Thank she's not apocalyptic.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    edited November 2021
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Further thought. The arrival, we hope, of an extremely effective treatment for Covid-19, vindicates - potentially - the countries which have gone for Zero Covid. If they can just hold out for a few more months, they will be able to relax all restrictions knowing that the vast majority of people are now safe, because of the antivirals

    They will have avoided mass deaths and suffering, albeit at the expense of rigorous lockdowns, isolation and quarantines

    Up to a point, milord. The regimen for the antivirals is pretty ruthless: you have to spot covidians within three days of infection. So, quite a lot is bound to slip the net, surely, unless you test everyone every day?!
    Three days of symptom onset isn't it? Which would be far easier.
    I read "five days", somewhere, which is even better. But there's lots of conflicting info and opinion as this potentially game-changing news impacts

    Certainly Pfizer shares are doing pretty nicely
    That’s because they will make a shitload of cash from the vaccine.
    This year and next.
    It looks like there were two studies: one within 5 days of the start of symptoms, the other one was three days. Both worked but the results from 3 days are the ones in the headlines, as better than 5 days.

    https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/Pfizers-Novel-COVID-19-Oral-Antiviral-Treatment-Candidate-Reduced-Risk-of-Hospitalization-or-Death-by-89-in-Interim-Analysis-of-Phase-23-EPIC-HR-Study/default.aspx

    These sort of therapeutics are why there is no need to rush to catch it. Both regimes were on the unvaxxed.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    #FlynnWatch

    Stephen Flynn MP
    @StephenFlynnSNP
    ·
    4m
    🗣 “…we will do better when we have that opportunity to take our own future into our own hands.

    “And let me tell the members opposite, that day is coming faster than they dare think.”

    #YES
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fucking hell, next he'll admit to not knowing 'Paki' is an offensive term.

    Yorkshire head coach Andrew Gale is being investigated by bosses over anti-Semitic social media messages, it has emerged amid the club's deepening racism crisis.

    In a now deleted post on Twitter from November 2010, the then club captain told Paul Dews, who was head of media at Leeds United Football Club at the time, to "Button it y--!"

    Gale told the Jewish News website, which first reported the tweet, that he was “completely unaware” of the offensive nature of the term at the time he sent the message.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/05/yorkshire-cricket-racism-storm-chairman-quits-hits-ecb-latest/

    Good grief.

    I am starting to think Yorkshire CCC won't survive this.
    I think they need to appoint me Chief Executive and Executive Chairman of YCCC and I'll fix all the problems.

    A strong Yorkshire means a strong England.
    I have always found Yorkshire kind of annoying, for a few reasons:

    1. Claiming to be in the North, even though parts of it are closer to London than to the Scottish border
    2. Yorkshire Tea, which self-evidently isn't produced in Yorkshire
    3. Being referred to by its residents as God's own Country, which seems rather boastful and potentially blasphemous, especially if you've ever spent time in some of the ropier bits
    4. Geoffrey Boycott.
    Boycott, I'll concede. You can have YCCC too.

    As a southerner naturalised in Yorkshire I answer the others as follows:
    1. Anything north of Watford Gap is north. Plus Yorkshire folk say bath, not barth.
    2. Yorkshire tea is indeed produced in Yorkshire. The raw ingredients come from elsewhere. Next you'll be claiming that BP petrol isn't really British! :open_mouth:
    3. God's Own Country? Well Jacob Rees-Mogg says it isn't.[1] Case closed?

    [1] https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-yorkshire-is-not-gods-own-country-somerset-is-3146769
    On the basis that JRM is always wrong I will concede 3. On 1. you are basically denying the existence of the Midlands, where I think most of Yorkshire is located. On 2., I think the petrol refining process is a more substantive procedure than mixing up tea leaves from several countries and putting them in a perforated bag. Yorkshire tea is not from Yorkshire (it is from India, Sri Lanka and Kenya).
    Ah, compromise :smile: I'm happy to negotiate.

    On 1. There was a lad at university (in the midlands) from Nottingham who denied he was northern. We didn't believe him, either. I have slightly more sympathy with his position now. Happy to re-set the dividing line to the Humber and disown South Yorkshire (happy, on current events, to lose West Yorkshire, too).
    On 2. Rename the product to 'Yorkshire Teabags'? At least until it turns out the bagging is done in High Wycombe...
    Yorkshire is North of the Humber. Case closed
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    eek said:

    ajb said:

    The thing that is always said about how long he’ll be in Number 10 is that his salary as PM is nowhere what he was earning from journalism before he became leader and PM and it is said that he is under pressure financially. I have always thought that it will be this factor that could be decisive.


    This assumes there are two possibilities:
    • Johnson quits to get a better salary
    • Johnson stays on and his salary stays the same
    But really, what's stopping him giving himself a raise? Do we really think he'd be too embarrassed?

    Even if you think he wouldn't do it now for political reasons, that's no reason to think he would step down before an election, when he could be counting on the idea of increasing his pay after any win.

    I am not much of a bettor, but I definitely wouldn't bet on Johnson lacking chutzspa or deferring to ethics.
    Funnel the grift through the missus? Carrie to be paid £1 million a year as a premium travel writer?
    SeanT would love that sort of money. From memory his travel writing pays little to nothing in return for him spending a week in freebie 5 star luxury...
    My heart bleeds for him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    Charles said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fucking hell, next he'll admit to not knowing 'Paki' is an offensive term.

    Yorkshire head coach Andrew Gale is being investigated by bosses over anti-Semitic social media messages, it has emerged amid the club's deepening racism crisis.

    In a now deleted post on Twitter from November 2010, the then club captain told Paul Dews, who was head of media at Leeds United Football Club at the time, to "Button it y--!"

    Gale told the Jewish News website, which first reported the tweet, that he was “completely unaware” of the offensive nature of the term at the time he sent the message.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/05/yorkshire-cricket-racism-storm-chairman-quits-hits-ecb-latest/

    Good grief.

    I am starting to think Yorkshire CCC won't survive this.
    I think they need to appoint me Chief Executive and Executive Chairman of YCCC and I'll fix all the problems.

    A strong Yorkshire means a strong England.
    I have always found Yorkshire kind of annoying, for a few reasons:

    1. Claiming to be in the North, even though parts of it are closer to London than to the Scottish border
    2. Yorkshire Tea, which self-evidently isn't produced in Yorkshire
    3. Being referred to by its residents as God's own Country, which seems rather boastful and potentially blasphemous, especially if you've ever spent time in some of the ropier bits
    4. Geoffrey Boycott.
    Boycott, I'll concede. You can have YCCC too.

    As a southerner naturalised in Yorkshire I answer the others as follows:
    1. Anything north of Watford Gap is north. Plus Yorkshire folk say bath, not barth.
    2. Yorkshire tea is indeed produced in Yorkshire. The raw ingredients come from elsewhere. Next you'll be claiming that BP petrol isn't really British! :open_mouth:
    3. God's Own Country? Well Jacob Rees-Mogg says it isn't.[1] Case closed?

    [1] https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-yorkshire-is-not-gods-own-country-somerset-is-3146769
    On the basis that JRM is always wrong I will concede 3. On 1. you are basically denying the existence of the Midlands, where I think most of Yorkshire is located. On 2., I think the petrol refining process is a more substantive procedure than mixing up tea leaves from several countries and putting them in a perforated bag. Yorkshire tea is not from Yorkshire (it is from India, Sri Lanka and Kenya).
    Ah, compromise :smile: I'm happy to negotiate.

    On 1. There was a lad at university (in the midlands) from Nottingham who denied he was northern. We didn't believe him, either. I have slightly more sympathy with his position now. Happy to re-set the dividing line to the Humber and disown South Yorkshire (happy, on current events, to lose West Yorkshire, too).
    On 2. Rename the product to 'Yorkshire Teabags'? At least until it turns out the bagging is done in High Wycombe...
    Yorkshire is North of the Humber. Case closed
    So really, it's just southern Northumbria?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,571

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    No more apostrophes, even?
    Cutting down on punctuation saves electricity. Therefore not using any punctuation is good for the environment.
  • It seems like the NI Protocol talks are going well. 👍

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59167024
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    kinabalu said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    This seems odd. Who cares about a referendum many years past. K - you're better than this.
    I just mean the strong correlation between hard hard leavers and liking Trump and - as night follows day - fruity social views. It is the case, with usual caveats of #not all hard hard leavers.
    I think you're allowing youself to think unduly polarised thoughts.

    I do see what you're saying though. 'Hard leavers' if they exist are probably few and far. Trump supporters in the UK much the same.

    Most leave voters were and are pretty average folk. There simply can't be anything special about us. The whole idea that this somehow represents a division that should be dwelled upon is pretty dismal.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Fucking hell, next he'll admit to not knowing 'Paki' is an offensive term.

    Yorkshire head coach Andrew Gale is being investigated by bosses over anti-Semitic social media messages, it has emerged amid the club's deepening racism crisis.

    In a now deleted post on Twitter from November 2010, the then club captain told Paul Dews, who was head of media at Leeds United Football Club at the time, to "Button it y--!"

    Gale told the Jewish News website, which first reported the tweet, that he was “completely unaware” of the offensive nature of the term at the time he sent the message.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2021/11/05/yorkshire-cricket-racism-storm-chairman-quits-hits-ecb-latest/

    Good grief.

    I am starting to think Yorkshire CCC won't survive this.
    I think they need to appoint me Chief Executive and Executive Chairman of YCCC and I'll fix all the problems.

    A strong Yorkshire means a strong England.
    I have always found Yorkshire kind of annoying, for a few reasons:

    1. Claiming to be in the North, even though parts of it are closer to London than to the Scottish border
    2. Yorkshire Tea, which self-evidently isn't produced in Yorkshire
    3. Being referred to by its residents as God's own Country, which seems rather boastful and potentially blasphemous, especially if you've ever spent time in some of the ropier bits
    4. Geoffrey Boycott.
    Boycott, I'll concede. You can have YCCC too.

    As a southerner naturalised in Yorkshire I answer the others as follows:
    1. Anything north of Watford Gap is north. Plus Yorkshire folk say bath, not barth.
    2. Yorkshire tea is indeed produced in Yorkshire. The raw ingredients come from elsewhere. Next you'll be claiming that BP petrol isn't really British! :open_mouth:
    3. God's Own Country? Well Jacob Rees-Mogg says it isn't.[1] Case closed?

    [1] https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-yorkshire-is-not-gods-own-country-somerset-is-3146769
    On the basis that JRM is always wrong I will concede 3. On 1. you are basically denying the existence of the Midlands, where I think most of Yorkshire is located. On 2., I think the petrol refining process is a more substantive procedure than mixing up tea leaves from several countries and putting them in a perforated bag. Yorkshire tea is not from Yorkshire (it is from India, Sri Lanka and Kenya).
    Ah, compromise :smile: I'm happy to negotiate.

    On 1. There was a lad at university (in the midlands) from Nottingham who denied he was northern. We didn't believe him, either. I have slightly more sympathy with his position now. Happy to re-set the dividing line to the Humber and disown South Yorkshire (happy, on current events, to lose West Yorkshire, too).
    On 2. Rename the product to 'Yorkshire Teabags'? At least until it turns out the bagging is done in High Wycombe...
    Yorkshire is North of the Humber. Case closed
    So really, it's just southern Northumbria?
    It used to be! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northumbria
  • It seems like the NI Protocol talks are going well. 👍

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59167024

    It's a shame, because I think the NI protocol seems to be working, as far as the people of NI are concerned.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,900
    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    This seems odd. Who cares about a referendum many years past. K - you're better than this.
    I don't think that's true at all. Context is everything. That was the point of my original post. If he's a 'strong Leaver' and he used the 'P' word then there is a strong prima facie case in my opinion.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited November 2021
    Johnson has got almost no supporters whatsoever on the sleaze question amongst the Daily Mail faithful again today, and tons of vitriol.

    I think the Tories may in the end take much more than a four or five per cent hit on this. From the comments and the polls the right seem to be sizing up the Reform Party as they once sized up UKIP, cancelling out Starmer's loss of four or five per cent to the Greens from when he suspended Corbyn.
  • It amuses me how many leftwingers are ardent fans of what the Daily Heil has to say.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,403

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    No more apostrophes, even?
    Cutting down on punctuation saves electricity. Therefore not using any punctuation is good for the environment.
    Soimcallingyououtforwaste
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Roger said:

    Omnium said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    He's a Leaver, Roger. Quite a strong one. Don't know if you were aware of that.
    This seems odd. Who cares about a referendum many years past. K - you're better than this.
    I don't think that's true at all. Context is everything. That was the point of my original post. If he's a 'strong Leaver' and he used the 'P' word then there is a strong prima facie case in my opinion.
    Case for what?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Blimey.
    Helion, the private sector pulsed fusion effort, just raised $500m.

    US investors are getting very serious about the prospects for fusion power within a decade.
  • TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    No more apostrophes, even?
    Cutting down on punctuation saves electricity. Therefore not using any punctuation is good for the environment.
    Soimcallingyououtforwaste
    ucudcuturtxtdwnmor
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There was a Bernard Manning joke on Parkinson one time. I wouldn't dare repeat it but it is topical given the goings on of YCC. He told it against himself and those who accused him of being racist and to show that comedy is inviolate. A bit like Dave Chappelle now.

    And everyone then laughed uproariously. Including some as I remember it non-white critics of his being interviewed at the same time.

    I agree that the boundaries of what's acceptable have shifted a lot, But it's actually hard to know what to do if someone with you on TV cracks a joke that seems offensive and everyone round you laughs uproariously. You can object, which sounds prissy. You can be stony-faced, which looks robotic. You can smile puzzledly (my usual technique), which looks dim-witted. Or you can laugh heartily and be thought a good sport. I wouldn't necessarily assume that the last reaction is genuine.
    As I said the joke is now beyond the pale but it appeared genuinely "funny". Timing was 3/4 of it of course.
    Timing and confidence are key to telling jokes well.

    But also there's an issue that many comedians love to push the boundaries of what is acceptable, and for some issues (see Carlin) what's acceptable moves so that what was borderline in the past can be fairly tame in the future.

    But sometimes (see Manning) what's acceptable moves so that what was borderline in the past can be beyond the pale in the future.
    Yes absolutely. It begs the question of what is funny. I want to think that if the joke was aimed at me then I would laugh but I can't be at all sure.
    Some good jokes are truly and utterly offensive (including some racist jokes). I guess one has to know one's audience,
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
    No, there is a huge difference between "you lot" and the P word

    "You lot" really could be anything. You need a window into his soul to see if he meant it in a racist way. Perhaps he did, but maybe he didn't.

    P*ki is clearly racist and derogatory and a different kettle of unhappy fish
    Bloke addressing bunch of sth Asian guys: "You lot".

    Yes good point super ambiguous let's see if we can unpick the semiotics of that one.
    Let’s hope your career never depends on some Witchfinder, like you, sniffing out the phrase ‘you lot’ and detecting Evilthink
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,571

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    No more apostrophes, even?
    Cutting down on punctuation saves electricity. Therefore not using any punctuation is good for the environment.
    Soimcallingyououtforwaste
    Ah, I'm spreading the message, so I'm allowed to punctuate. In the same way people can fly on private jets to a climate summit. If you're doing the good work, you're better than the hoi polloi.
  • TOPPING said:

    There was a Bernard Manning joke on Parkinson one time. I wouldn't dare repeat it but it is topical given the goings on of YCC. He told it against himself and those who accused him of being racist and to show that comedy is inviolate. A bit like Dave Chappelle now.

    And everyone then laughed uproariously. Including some as I remember it non-white critics of his being interviewed at the same time.

    Pretty white Esther & Magnus, I think?

    She's still angry about it, but she couldn't stop herself laughing
    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nxevi
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    I think she's rather good. She's quite careful as to what she says. Her supporters are the problem.

    Have you seen the Extinction Rebellion founder's "Advice to Young People as they face Annihilation"?

    https://twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1455644914327379978

    image
    I’m intrigued that they seem to think that “your mother, your sister, your girlfriend” is one person
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261

    Johnson has got almost no supporters whatsoever on the sleaze question amongst the Daily Mail faithful again today, and tons of vitriol.

    I think the Tories may in the end take much more than a four or five per cent hit on this. From the comments and the polls the right seem to be sizing up the Reform Party as they once sized up UKIP, cancelling out Starmer's loss of four or five per cent to the Greens from when he suspended Corbyn.

    Fancy a wager on that, if one can be formulated?
  • Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    I think she's rather good. She's quite careful as to what she says. Her supporters are the problem.

    Have you seen the Extinction Rebellion founder's "Advice to Young People as they face Annihilation"?

    https://twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1455644914327379978

    image
    I’m intrigued that they seem to think that “your mother, your sister, your girlfriend” is one person
    Was she speaking in Lincolnshire?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,571

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    No more apostrophes, even?
    Cutting down on punctuation saves electricity. Therefore not using any punctuation is good for the environment.
    Soimcallingyououtforwaste
    ucudcuturtxtdwnmor
    It's amazing how much you can mangle an English sentence and still have it understandable...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. Meanwhile I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    No more apostrophes, even?
    Cutting down on punctuation saves electricity. Therefore not using any punctuation is good for the environment.
    Soimcallingyououtforwaste
    youusecapitals
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Aaron Rodgers has been giving a hell of an interview. Him saying he took Ivermectin is not the highlight.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    It's difficult to remember a time when the main items in the news were so divorced from the concerns of ordinary people.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    It amuses me how many leftwingers are ardent fans of what the Daily Heil has to say.

    It's a bit like Cummings, as soon as he started attacking Boris the left suddenly started believing everything he said and wrote.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.
    Helion, the private sector pulsed fusion effort, just raised $500m.

    US investors are getting very serious about the prospects for fusion power within a decade.

    If they get it right then 500m will be peanuts.

    I have indirectly (via IP group) an investment in 'First light fusion' - an Oxford company.

    All of them are pretty good bets at probably in effect 1000-1 or maybe more.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There was a Bernard Manning joke on Parkinson one time. I wouldn't dare repeat it but it is topical given the goings on of YCC. He told it against himself and those who accused him of being racist and to show that comedy is inviolate. A bit like Dave Chappelle now.

    And everyone then laughed uproariously. Including some as I remember it non-white critics of his being interviewed at the same time.

    I agree that the boundaries of what's acceptable have shifted a lot, But it's actually hard to know what to do if someone with you on TV cracks a joke that seems offensive and everyone round you laughs uproariously. You can object, which sounds prissy. You can be stony-faced, which looks robotic. You can smile puzzledly (my usual technique), which looks dim-witted. Or you can laugh heartily and be thought a good sport. I wouldn't necessarily assume that the last reaction is genuine.
    As I said the joke is now beyond the pale but it appeared genuinely "funny". Timing was 3/4 of it of course.
    Timing and confidence are key to telling jokes well.

    But also there's an issue that many comedians love to push the boundaries of what is acceptable, and for some issues (see Carlin) what's acceptable moves so that what was borderline in the past can be fairly tame in the future.

    But sometimes (see Manning) what's acceptable moves so that what was borderline in the past can be beyond the pale in the future.
    Yes absolutely. It begs the question of what is funny. I want to think that if the joke was aimed at me then I would laugh but I can't be at all sure.
    Some good jokes are truly and utterly offensive (including some racist jokes). I guess one has to know one's audience,
    Comedy clubs and theatres in the US have started banning mobile phones, after too many ‘leaks’ of material.

    A couple of words different in a joke can make a big difference when the comic is working it out, and something said at 1am in a club can look very different with no context written down on paper.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Further thought. The arrival, we hope, of an extremely effective treatment for Covid-19, vindicates - potentially - the countries which have gone for Zero Covid. If they can just hold out for a few more months, they will be able to relax all restrictions knowing that the vast majority of people are now safe, because of the antivirals

    They will have avoided mass deaths and suffering, albeit at the expense of rigorous lockdowns, isolation and quarantines

    Up to a point, milord. The regimen for the antivirals is pretty ruthless: you have to spot covidians within three days of infection. So, quite a lot is bound to slip the net, surely, unless you test everyone every day?!
    Three days of symptom onset isn't it? Which would be far easier.
    I read "five days", somewhere, which is even better. But there's lots of conflicting info and opinion as this potentially game-changing news impacts

    Certainly Pfizer shares are doing pretty nicely
    That’s because they will make a shitload of cash from the vaccine.
    This year and next.
    It looks like there were two studies: one within 5 days of the start of symptoms, the other one was three days. Both worked but the results from 3 days are the ones in the headlines, as better than 5 days.

    https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/Pfizers-Novel-COVID-19-Oral-Antiviral-Treatment-Candidate-Reduced-Risk-of-Hospitalization-or-Death-by-89-in-Interim-Analysis-of-Phase-23-EPIC-HR-Study/default.aspx

    These sort of therapeutics are why there is no need to rush to catch it. Both regimes were on the unvaxxed.
    And it ought to be possible to produce a lot of it very quickly, and quite cheaply. Though Pfizer will want to charge a premium.
    Good article on the development here:
    https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/pfizer-s-good-news-world-s-good-news
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited November 2021
    glw said:

    It amuses me how many leftwingers are ardent fans of what the Daily Heil has to say.

    It's a bit like Cummings, as soon as he started attacking Boris the left suddenly started believing everything he said and wrote.
    The Daily Mail is a very handy weathervane and testing-ground for populist rightwingers, not a moral bible. So much so that the government themselves take its headlines very seriously, like they did yesterday.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to remember a time when the main items in the news were so divorced from the concerns of ordinary people.

    Are they not covering Bexley and Old Sidcup, then?
  • Leon said:

    Johnson has got almost no supporters whatsoever on the sleaze question amongst the Daily Mail faithful again today, and tons of vitriol.

    I think the Tories may in the end take much more than a four or five per cent hit on this. From the comments and the polls the right seem to be sizing up the Reform Party as they once sized up UKIP, cancelling out Starmer's loss of four or five per cent to the Greens from when he suspended Corbyn.

    Fancy a wager on that, if one can be formulated?
    A nice idea, but I'm only metaphorically a betting man ;.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,132
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Further thought. The arrival, we hope, of an extremely effective treatment for Covid-19, vindicates - potentially - the countries which have gone for Zero Covid. If they can just hold out for a few more months, they will be able to relax all restrictions knowing that the vast majority of people are now safe, because of the antivirals

    They will have avoided mass deaths and suffering, albeit at the expense of rigorous lockdowns, isolation and quarantines

    Up to a point, milord. The regimen for the antivirals is pretty ruthless: you have to spot covidians within three days of infection. So, quite a lot is bound to slip the net, surely, unless you test everyone every day?!
    Three days of symptom onset isn't it? Which would be far easier.
    I read "five days", somewhere, which is even better. But there's lots of conflicting info and opinion as this potentially game-changing news impacts

    Certainly Pfizer shares are doing pretty nicely
    That’s because they will make a shitload of cash from the vaccine.
    This year and next.
    It looks like there were two studies: one within 5 days of the start of symptoms, the other one was three days. Both worked but the results from 3 days are the ones in the headlines, as better than 5 days.

    https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/Pfizers-Novel-COVID-19-Oral-Antiviral-Treatment-Candidate-Reduced-Risk-of-Hospitalization-or-Death-by-89-in-Interim-Analysis-of-Phase-23-EPIC-HR-Study/default.aspx

    These sort of therapeutics are why there is no need to rush to catch it. Both regimes were on the unvaxxed.
    And it ought to be possible to produce a lot of it very quickly, and quite cheaply. Though Pfizer will want to charge a premium.
    Good article on the development here:
    https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/pfizer-s-good-news-world-s-good-news
    That is a great article, and well worth a read.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Further thought. The arrival, we hope, of an extremely effective treatment for Covid-19, vindicates - potentially - the countries which have gone for Zero Covid. If they can just hold out for a few more months, they will be able to relax all restrictions knowing that the vast majority of people are now safe, because of the antivirals

    They will have avoided mass deaths and suffering, albeit at the expense of rigorous lockdowns, isolation and quarantines

    Up to a point, milord. The regimen for the antivirals is pretty ruthless: you have to spot covidians within three days of infection. So, quite a lot is bound to slip the net, surely, unless you test everyone every day?!
    Three days of symptom onset isn't it? Which would be far easier.
    I read "five days", somewhere, which is even better. But there's lots of conflicting info and opinion as this potentially game-changing news impacts

    Certainly Pfizer shares are doing pretty nicely
    That’s because they will make a shitload of cash from the vaccine.
    This year and next.
    It looks like there were two studies: one within 5 days of the start of symptoms, the other one was three days. Both worked but the results from 3 days are the ones in the headlines, as better than 5 days.

    https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/Pfizers-Novel-COVID-19-Oral-Antiviral-Treatment-Candidate-Reduced-Risk-of-Hospitalization-or-Death-by-89-in-Interim-Analysis-of-Phase-23-EPIC-HR-Study/default.aspx

    These sort of therapeutics are why there is no need to rush to catch it. Both regimes were on the unvaxxed.
    And it ought to be possible to produce a lot of it very quickly, and quite cheaply. Though Pfizer will want to charge a premium.
    Good article on the development here:
    https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/pfizer-s-good-news-world-s-good-news
    Ongoing studies in lower risk patients and for post exposure prophylaxis.

    Side effects less than placebo too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to remember a time when the main items in the news were so divorced from the concerns of ordinary people.

    Really? You don't think that the public are interested in corruption?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,261

    I bring good news for all mankind

    Narcos Mexico Season 3 has just hit Netflix
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited November 2021
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to remember a time when the main items in the news were so divorced from the concerns of ordinary people.

    Really? You don't think that the public are interested in corruption?
    Quite. I think a lot of the public haven't been engaged with a single story for such a long time, and in the same way, since the pandemic.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,367
    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There was a Bernard Manning joke on Parkinson one time. I wouldn't dare repeat it but it is topical given the goings on of YCC. He told it against himself and those who accused him of being racist and to show that comedy is inviolate. A bit like Dave Chappelle now.

    And everyone then laughed uproariously. Including some as I remember it non-white critics of his being interviewed at the same time.

    I agree that the boundaries of what's acceptable have shifted a lot, But it's actually hard to know what to do if someone with you on TV cracks a joke that seems offensive and everyone round you laughs uproariously. You can object, which sounds prissy. You can be stony-faced, which looks robotic. You can smile puzzledly (my usual technique), which looks dim-witted. Or you can laugh heartily and be thought a good sport. I wouldn't necessarily assume that the last reaction is genuine.
    As I said the joke is now beyond the pale but it appeared genuinely "funny". Timing was 3/4 of it of course.
    Timing and confidence are key to telling jokes well.

    But also there's an issue that many comedians love to push the boundaries of what is acceptable, and for some issues (see Carlin) what's acceptable moves so that what was borderline in the past can be fairly tame in the future.

    But sometimes (see Manning) what's acceptable moves so that what was borderline in the past can be beyond the pale in the future.
    Yes absolutely. It begs the question of what is funny. I want to think that if the joke was aimed at me then I would laugh but I can't be at all sure.
    Some good jokes are truly and utterly offensive (including some racist jokes). I guess one has to know one's audience,
    Comedy clubs and theatres in the US have started banning mobile phones, after too many ‘leaks’ of material.

    A couple of words different in a joke can make a big difference when the comic is working it out, and something said at 1am in a club can look very different with no context written down on paper.
    The twins have a habit of watching "Slime Tutorials" which are sneaky mobile recordings of Broadway shows.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    I think she's rather good. She's quite careful as to what she says. Her supporters are the problem.

    Have you seen the Extinction Rebellion founder's "Advice to Young People as they face Annihilation"?

    https://twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1455644914327379978

    image
    I’m intrigued that they seem to think that “your mother, your sister, your girlfriend” is one person
    If "them" now means just one person (usually female), then it make sense for "her" to mean several different people..
  • glw said:

    It amuses me how many leftwingers are ardent fans of what the Daily Heil has to say.

    It's a bit like Cummings, as soon as he started attacking Boris the left suddenly started believing everything he said and wrote.
    When the cracks start to show in any formidable army the opposition would be fools not to exploit it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited November 2021

    Despite having a Glaswegian mother, I'm not hugely invested in the Scottish issue, being fairly neutral. But for Labour, the politics of it are simple. Starmer will fight the next election on a) no coalition with the SNP, b) no promise, or even hint, of another referendum. He has no choice.

    What happens after that, if by any chance the Tories don't succeed in having a majority to form a government, will depend entirely on the numbers. But I'm confident that Starmer would prefer to risk another election rather than be held to ransom by the SNP.

    I agree that Starmer will not fight on a second Brexit referendum. Whether he should is a different and more abstract question.

    But on the SNP, SKS is in a trickier corner. The figures are obvious: The Tories can only form a government if they win or very nearly win; Labour cannot possibly form a Labour government without a Black Swan event. But they can easily form one in alliance of some sort with LD, Gn and SNP.

    The Tory attack line is obvious. (1) Labour can't win (2) A vote for Labour in E and W is a vote for the SNP (3) If Labour won't deal with the SNP a vote for Labour is a vote for a result with no possible government (4) Vote Labour and they would have to call an election again immediately.

    So vote for reliable, modest, competent, consistent, boring old Boris.

    And there is a surprising amount of truth in all those attack lines. except the last of course.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited November 2021

    Omnium said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just saw Greta on the BBC webpage telling us the world of literally burning. I think I have solved the climate crisis.

    All those who think as she does should instantly reduce their carbon footprint to zero or close to it. No more electricity, driving, flying, cooking hot food, you name it.

    Given the urgency that will surely be the majority of the world's population. Hence problem solved. The remainder can go about their normal lives knowing that the planet is safe.

    Your welcome.

    I think she's rather good. She's quite careful as to what she says. Her supporters are the problem.

    Have you seen the Extinction Rebellion founder's "Advice to Young People as they face Annihilation"?

    https://twitter.com/MaxCRoser/status/1455644914327379978

    image
    Like there will be any cigarettes.
    This extract is how fascists and racists write. Have a look at Stormfront.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    edited November 2021

    glw said:

    It amuses me how many leftwingers are ardent fans of what the Daily Heil has to say.

    It's a bit like Cummings, as soon as he started attacking Boris the left suddenly started believing everything he said and wrote.
    When the cracks start to show in any formidable army the opposition would be fools not to exploit it.
    In the case of Cummings and Johnson, it's not the cracks, it's the cranks.
  • Leon said:


    I bring good news for all mankind

    Narcos Mexico Season 3 has just hit Netflix

    Excellent news. Thanks.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,799
    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.
    Helion, the private sector pulsed fusion effort, just raised $500m.

    US investors are getting very serious about the prospects for fusion power within a decade.

    I was reading a report this week from a European research house saying that the US and UK are leaving Europe in the dust for private finance for fusion technology startups and that the UK government could take a big lead over the EU if it creates a subsidy fund.
  • Vaughan’s memory game

    Michael Vaughan has strongly denied making a racially insensitive remark to three Asian cricketers during his time as Yorkshire captain, despite two of the players insisting he did so.

    It is to be hoped the BBC analyst has better powers of recall than he did after an interview in 2007 about England’s ill-fated World Cup in the West Indies. Vaughan was reported by the interviewer to have referred to Andrew Flintoff as “Fredalo”, in reference to the all-rounder having to be rescued from a midnight pedalo escapade, prompting him to issue a statement insisting he “never used that word”.

    The Guardian responded by posting the audio of his interview online, in which Vaughan said “Fredalo” not once but twice.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/amanda-staveleys-company-can-borrow-money-from-fellow-newcastle-shareholder-2f023shrg
  • Must read article on the shit show in Number 10.

    A former cabinet minister said: “No 10 lacks grey hair. It lacks a Willie Whitelaw. Frankly, Boris’s habit of not liking big guns around him is his fatal flaw. He doesn’t have any cabinet ministers who will call him up and say, ‘This is a f***ing stupid idea’.” Others say this criticism is unfair. “There is challenge there every day, with people putting across both sides of the argument,” a government source said. “There’s nothing casual about it.” The original plan to save Paterson was even more robust than the amendment.

    and

    Critics of the prime minister believe that the events of this week are part of a wider pattern. “The prime minister reverse ferrets not only in the building but in his own mind,” one government source said.

    “He says, ‘We’ve got to get this done.’ He’s very gung-ho and then he convinces himself it was never his position in the first place and seems to think it was someone else’s fault.” Within No 10, few are prepared to stand up to the prime minister and insecurity is rife. “No 10 is full of people that nod along because they’re worried about their own positions,” one staffer said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/downing-street-yes-men-blamed-for-johnsons-failed-bid-to-save-owen-paterson-090mkzklf
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    algarkirk said:

    Despite having a Glaswegian mother, I'm not hugely invested in the Scottish issue, being fairly neutral. But for Labour, the politics of it are simple. Starmer will fight the next election on a) no coalition with the SNP, b) no promise, or even hint, of another referendum. He has no choice.

    What happens after that, if by any chance the Tories don't succeed in having a majority to form a government, will depend entirely on the numbers. But I'm confident that Starmer would prefer to risk another election rather than be held to ransom by the SNP.

    I agree that Starmer will not fight on a second Brexit referendum. Whether he should is a different and more abstract question.

    But on the SNP, SKS is in a trickier corner. The figures are obvious: The Tories can only form a government if they win or very nearly win; Labour cannot possibly form a Labour government without a Black Swan event. But they can easily form one in alliance of some sort with LD, Gn and SNP.

    The Tory attack line is obvious. (1) Labour can't win (2) A vote for Labour in E and W is a vote for the SNP (3) If Labour won't deal with the SNP a vote for Labour is a vote for a result with no possible government (4) Vote Labour and they would have to call an election again immediately.

    So vote for reliable, modest, competent, consistent, boring old Boris.

    And there is a surprising amount of truth in all those attack lines. except the last of course.

    I fear you misunderstood my post. I was referring to a Scottish referendum, not a Brexit referendum. Although the same applies - he won't touch the latter with a bargepole.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited November 2021
    kle4 said:

    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.

    It's the right, and older voters, that seem to be more furious. That's what I would be worrying about, if I was Our Bozza.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    It's difficult to remember a time when the main items in the news were so divorced from the concerns of ordinary people.

    Really? You don't think that the public are interested in corruption?
    Not as much as they should be.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    Must read article on the shit show in Number 10.

    A former cabinet minister said: “No 10 lacks grey hair. It lacks a Willie Whitelaw. Frankly, Boris’s habit of not liking big guns around him is his fatal flaw. He doesn’t have any cabinet ministers who will call him up and say, ‘This is a f***ing stupid idea’.” Others say this criticism is unfair. “There is challenge there every day, with people putting across both sides of the argument,” a government source said. “There’s nothing casual about it.” The original plan to save Paterson was even more robust than the amendment.

    and

    Critics of the prime minister believe that the events of this week are part of a wider pattern. “The prime minister reverse ferrets not only in the building but in his own mind,” one government source said.

    “He says, ‘We’ve got to get this done.’ He’s very gung-ho and then he convinces himself it was never his position in the first place and seems to think it was someone else’s fault.” Within No 10, few are prepared to stand up to the prime minister and insecurity is rife. “No 10 is full of people that nod along because they’re worried about their own positions,” one staffer said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/downing-street-yes-men-blamed-for-johnsons-failed-bid-to-save-owen-paterson-090mkzklf

    They need Cummings back.

    The problem is that they’ve burned their bridges there, so who can they persuade into No.10 to actually run the show?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,370
    Sandpit said:

    Must read article on the shit show in Number 10.

    A former cabinet minister said: “No 10 lacks grey hair. It lacks a Willie Whitelaw. Frankly, Boris’s habit of not liking big guns around him is his fatal flaw. He doesn’t have any cabinet ministers who will call him up and say, ‘This is a f***ing stupid idea’.” Others say this criticism is unfair. “There is challenge there every day, with people putting across both sides of the argument,” a government source said. “There’s nothing casual about it.” The original plan to save Paterson was even more robust than the amendment.

    and

    Critics of the prime minister believe that the events of this week are part of a wider pattern. “The prime minister reverse ferrets not only in the building but in his own mind,” one government source said.

    “He says, ‘We’ve got to get this done.’ He’s very gung-ho and then he convinces himself it was never his position in the first place and seems to think it was someone else’s fault.” Within No 10, few are prepared to stand up to the prime minister and insecurity is rife. “No 10 is full of people that nod along because they’re worried about their own positions,” one staffer said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/downing-street-yes-men-blamed-for-johnsons-failed-bid-to-save-owen-paterson-090mkzklf

    They need Cummings back.

    The problem is that they’ve burned their bridges there, so who can they persuade into No.10 to actually run the show?
    Why? He was most of the problem while he was there because he not only fed Johnson's fantasies but was living out his own. Similarly, not having any deep understanding of the situation he kept getting his solutions wrong.

    In any case, the ultimate problem isn't the weakness of No. 10, it's the weakness of the cabinet. There simply isn't anyone who would stand up to Johnson in it and due to his insecurities he would never appoint one.
  • kle4 said:

    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.

    I'm not sure the Paterson business wasn't done, dusted, and then reverse-ferreted too quickly for the uninterested to follow. Earlier scandals like expenses dragged on for weeks. Maybe people will catch up especially if there is more in the Sundays.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Must read article on the shit show in Number 10.

    A former cabinet minister said: “No 10 lacks grey hair. It lacks a Willie Whitelaw. Frankly, Boris’s habit of not liking big guns around him is his fatal flaw. He doesn’t have any cabinet ministers who will call him up and say, ‘This is a f***ing stupid idea’.” Others say this criticism is unfair. “There is challenge there every day, with people putting across both sides of the argument,” a government source said. “There’s nothing casual about it.” The original plan to save Paterson was even more robust than the amendment.

    and

    Critics of the prime minister believe that the events of this week are part of a wider pattern. “The prime minister reverse ferrets not only in the building but in his own mind,” one government source said.

    “He says, ‘We’ve got to get this done.’ He’s very gung-ho and then he convinces himself it was never his position in the first place and seems to think it was someone else’s fault.” Within No 10, few are prepared to stand up to the prime minister and insecurity is rife. “No 10 is full of people that nod along because they’re worried about their own positions,” one staffer said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/downing-street-yes-men-blamed-for-johnsons-failed-bid-to-save-owen-paterson-090mkzklf

    They need Cummings back.

    The problem is that they’ve burned their bridges there, so who can they persuade into No.10 to actually run the show?
    Why? He was most of the problem while he was there because he not only fed Johnson's fantasies but was living out his own. Similarly, not having any deep understanding of the situation he kept getting his solutions wrong.

    In any case, the ultimate problem isn't the weakness of No. 10, it's the weakness of the cabinet. There simply isn't anyone who would stand up to Johnson in it and due to his insecurities he would never appoint one.
    Cummings has crafted some good messages at time but im not sure why that gets extrapolated to being the answer to deep issues.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758

    kle4 said:

    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.

    I'm not sure the Paterson business wasn't done, dusted, and then reverse-ferreted too quickly for the uninterested to follow. Earlier scandals like expenses dragged on for weeks. Maybe people will catch up especially if there is more in the Sundays.
    Oh no. Paterson will be remembered for a long time. He's managed to do more damage to the party he ostensibly represents than the opposition have done in years. If he finishes up in some ghastly mine it'll be too good for him.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,131
    edited November 2021

    kle4 said:

    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.

    I'm not sure the Paterson business wasn't done, dusted, and then reverse-ferreted too quickly for the uninterested to follow. Earlier scandals like expenses dragged on for weeks. Maybe people will catch up especially if there is more in the Sundays.
    The media has sniffed a narrative, and got behind other stories related ; that's really what I was commenting on from the beginning today. Look at the comments beneath this piece :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10169337/Boris-Johnson-REFUSES-tell-Commons-sleaze-watchdog-Marbella-family-holiday-worth.html
  • It's truly been the Week That Was for PBers. As far as Great British U-Turns go, this most recent example must surely belong in the hall of fame.

    . . . but meanwhile back at the ranch . . .

    Yours truly has been absorbed with 2021 general election here in the great State of Washington. Pleased to report that, unlike in much of the rest of the country, Democrats not only avoided getting hammered, but actually scored a few modest but none-the-less significant gains here and there.

    Note that most races were officially nonpartisan but often with significant partisan AND ideological contrasts between candidates.

    CITY OF SEATTLE
    > Bruce Harrell, former city council member and moderate (by Seattle standards) Democrat is winning a whopping 62% versus 38% for progressive current council member Lorena González
    > in race for City Attorney (where the incumbent was eliminated in the primary) Ann Davison, a non-Trumpist (sort of) Republican, is winning 55% versus 45% for Nicole Thomas-Kennedy, who advocates abolishing much of the criminal justice system; while Democratic district organizations all endorsed NTK, many prominent Dems (such as former governors Gary Locke & Christine Gregoire) endorsed the Republican, and clearly most Seattle Democrats - including yours truly - voted for Davison.
    > in open at-large city council seat (now held by González) moderate Democrat Sara Nelson is defeating progressive activists and 2017 mayoral candidate Nikkita Oliver by 57% versus 43%

    KING COUNTY (Seattle plus east & south suburbs)
    > Incumbent King Co Executive Dow Constantine, a moderate Democrat, is winning 56% versus 43% for progressive Democratic state senator Joe Nguyen (the GOP didn't bother to file a serious candidate for the August primary)
    > five seats on King Co Council were up this year, including the only three (out of nine) held by Republicans; four incumbents were re-elected handily, however long-time GOP incumbent Cathy Lambert is losing by 45% versus 55% for Democratic challenger Sarah Perry; this council district includes affluent Eastside King Co suburbs & exurbs that have been trending steadily Democratic for decades, with Lambert being the last domino to fall.

    SNOHOMISH COUNTY (northern part of Seattle metro area)
    > no surprises & really not much happening electorally, though moderates did bit better than progressives in local races in Everett & other suburbs dominated these days by Democrats, while Republicans held there own exurban & rural turf.
    > most interesting, and for me gratifying result, was the defeat of the incumbent Proud Boy fellow travelling mayor of the City of Snohomish AND his cronies on the city council, by a moderate-progressive slate; note that this is a charming little tourist trap beloved by Seattlites as a weekend get-away; methinks locals were motivated by distaste of Trumpery AND concern that being perceived as a Putinist stronghold might NOT be good for business.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,817

    kle4 said:

    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.

    I'm not sure the Paterson business wasn't done, dusted, and then reverse-ferreted too quickly for the uninterested to follow. Earlier scandals like expenses dragged on for weeks. Maybe people will catch up especially if there is more in the Sundays.
    The media has sniffed a narrative, and got behind other stories related ; that's really what I was commenting on from the beginning today. Look at the comments beneath this piece :

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10169337/Boris-Johnson-REFUSES-tell-Commons-sleaze-watchdog-Marbella-family-holiday-worth.html
    Even the header of the article makes your point eloquently.
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
    No, there is a huge difference between "you lot" and the P word

    "You lot" really could be anything. You need a window into his soul to see if he meant it in a racist way. Perhaps he did, but maybe he didn't.

    P*ki is clearly racist and derogatory and a different kettle of unhappy fish
    Bloke addressing bunch of sth Asian guys: "You lot".

    Yes good point super ambiguous let's see if we can unpick the semiotics of that one.
    Yours truly is old enough to recall how Ross Perot (remember him?) got a LOT of flack for referring to his audience at the NAACP convention in 1992 (IIRC) as "you people".
  • Omnium said:

    kle4 said:

    At the Corbynista family home today, unsurprisingly a lot of talk about Boris being awful ("he was drunk at COP26"), and agreement with Greta, but surprisingly no comment on the Paterson business at all, even after watching it reported on the news. Curious what sticks with people.

    I'm not sure the Paterson business wasn't done, dusted, and then reverse-ferreted too quickly for the uninterested to follow. Earlier scandals like expenses dragged on for weeks. Maybe people will catch up especially if there is more in the Sundays.
    Oh no. Paterson will be remembered for a long time. He's managed to do more damage to the party he ostensibly represents than the opposition have done in years. If he finishes up in some ghastly mine it'll be too good for him.
    I have sympathy for Paterson's loss and his family's turmoil, but he is so arrogant and seeking an emotional plus over the sad suicide of his wife is wholly unacceptable and his loss to public life will not be missed

    I expect there will be a price to pay in the polls, but his swift resignation and the appalling story of Yorkshire CC which has dominated today's media headlines, with worse to come no doubt, does move the news agenda on and may mitigate some of the damage

    We will have to see but Boris, Moore, Chief Whip, JRM and Leadsom should all hang their heads in shame at this unedifying miscalculation
  • Sandpit said:

    Must read article on the shit show in Number 10.

    A former cabinet minister said: “No 10 lacks grey hair. It lacks a Willie Whitelaw. Frankly, Boris’s habit of not liking big guns around him is his fatal flaw. He doesn’t have any cabinet ministers who will call him up and say, ‘This is a f***ing stupid idea’.” Others say this criticism is unfair. “There is challenge there every day, with people putting across both sides of the argument,” a government source said. “There’s nothing casual about it.” The original plan to save Paterson was even more robust than the amendment.

    and

    Critics of the prime minister believe that the events of this week are part of a wider pattern. “The prime minister reverse ferrets not only in the building but in his own mind,” one government source said.

    “He says, ‘We’ve got to get this done.’ He’s very gung-ho and then he convinces himself it was never his position in the first place and seems to think it was someone else’s fault.” Within No 10, few are prepared to stand up to the prime minister and insecurity is rife. “No 10 is full of people that nod along because they’re worried about their own positions,” one staffer said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/downing-street-yes-men-blamed-for-johnsons-failed-bid-to-save-owen-paterson-090mkzklf

    They need Cummings back.

    The problem is that they’ve burned their bridges there, so who can they persuade into No.10 to actually run the show?
    I actually spoke to someone who has worked in Downing Street in the past and they said nobody would want to work in Number 10 under Boris Johnson.

    He manages to couple the inertia of Mrs May's decision making process which then leads messy last minute decision making process which led to the Paterson fiasco.

    Then you've got Carrie Antoinette and her people in senior decision making roles and a parallel power base.

    It is well known Boris Johnson can make contradictory decisions within minutes.

    They all know one day it will go horribly wrong and nobody wants to be there for that.
    When the time finally comes (hopefully sooner rather than later) for (working title) "Boris Johnson - The Movie" who will play Himself?

    My nomination is - James Corden. With a fright wig.

    And who would be good in the role of Carrie? Maybe Lady Gaga?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
    No, there is a huge difference between "you lot" and the P word

    "You lot" really could be anything. You need a window into his soul to see if he meant it in a racist way. Perhaps he did, but maybe he didn't.

    P*ki is clearly racist and derogatory and a different kettle of unhappy fish
    Bloke addressing bunch of sth Asian guys: "You lot".

    Yes good point super ambiguous let's see if we can unpick the semiotics of that one.
    Yours truly is old enough to recall how Ross Perot (remember him?) got a LOT of flack for referring to his audience at the NAACP convention in 1992 (IIRC) as "you people".
    Would they have preferred him to have used “Colored People”, as the name of their organisation suggests?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    algarkirk said:

    Despite having a Glaswegian mother, I'm not hugely invested in the Scottish issue, being fairly neutral. But for Labour, the politics of it are simple. Starmer will fight the next election on a) no coalition with the SNP, b) no promise, or even hint, of another referendum. He has no choice.

    What happens after that, if by any chance the Tories don't succeed in having a majority to form a government, will depend entirely on the numbers. But I'm confident that Starmer would prefer to risk another election rather than be held to ransom by the SNP.

    I agree that Starmer will not fight on a second Brexit referendum. Whether he should is a different and more abstract question.

    But on the SNP, SKS is in a trickier corner. The figures are obvious: The Tories can only form a government if they win or very nearly win; Labour cannot possibly form a Labour government without a Black Swan event. But they can easily form one in alliance of some sort with LD, Gn and SNP.

    The Tory attack line is obvious. (1) Labour can't win (2) A vote for Labour in E and W is a vote for the SNP (3) If Labour won't deal with the SNP a vote for Labour is a vote for a result with no possible government (4) Vote Labour and they would have to call an election again immediately.

    So vote for reliable, modest, competent, consistent, boring old Boris.

    And there is a surprising amount of truth in all those attack lines. except the last of course.

    I fear you misunderstood my post. I was referring to a Scottish referendum, not a Brexit referendum. Although the same applies - he won't touch the latter with a bargepole.
    Yes, my mistake. I hope the rest of what I had to say had some relation to your interesting comments!

    I do think a most fascinating issue is the corner into which Labour is painted by the mixture of the problem that they can't win in England and can't win in Scotland but for entirely different reasons. Jezza has a good deal to answer for in rendering Labour out of sight of winning an election, which in current circumstances is a very pragmatic but none the less reasonable reason for not voting for them when you are voting for a government.

  • Sandpit said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Roger said:

    eek said:

    BBC statement on Michael Vaughan says he "won't appear as a presenter" on 5 Live's Tuffers & Vaughan Show on Monday.
    "We remain in discussion with Michael and his team". #bbccricket


    https://twitter.com/ShamoonHafez/status/1456662633826897927

    That's Michael's career cancelled - that 2010 tweet was probably justification enough...
    I met Michael Vaughan once when he was dining with Michael Atherton at Groucho's. A good enough reason to ban him from TV I know but he seemed very pleasant.

    Irrespective of this I'm not at all comfortable with him being pilloried for his alleged comment to three players of Pakistani origin. Cricket is a game of banter. None more so than between the Australians the West Indians the South Africans the Indians and the Pakistanis. The competition between these cricketing nations is both fierce and friendly as any spectator at a test match will attest.

    I have no idea about the behaviour of Yorkshire cricket Club which I can easily believe the worst of. They don't even like women in their pavilion! But the story with Micheal Vaughan is different. If they were playing a match and he jokingly said there are too many Geordies or too many Scousers would that also be worthy of a lifetime of shame?
    Are you being serious? Just like "Scouser"? Because it's not like the p-word has any history or form of being corrosive or hateful or violently discriminating, now, is it?

    Roger pull yourself together.

    And edit: if he said "you lot" instead of the p-word it makes it not one iota less grossly offensive.
    No, there is a huge difference between "you lot" and the P word

    "You lot" really could be anything. You need a window into his soul to see if he meant it in a racist way. Perhaps he did, but maybe he didn't.

    P*ki is clearly racist and derogatory and a different kettle of unhappy fish
    Bloke addressing bunch of sth Asian guys: "You lot".

    Yes good point super ambiguous let's see if we can unpick the semiotics of that one.
    Yours truly is old enough to recall how Ross Perot (remember him?) got a LOT of flack for referring to his audience at the NAACP convention in 1992 (IIRC) as "you people".
    Would they have preferred him to have used “Colored People”, as the name of their organisation suggests?
    Not really.
  • Evening all! What piece of outrageous corruption has been unveiled tonight which HYUFD has been on to defend?

    Celebrating bagging a ticket to see Porcupine Tree next November with a beer and a previous PT gig. A long week, but good busy.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited November 2021

    Sandpit said:

    Must read article on the shit show in Number 10.

    A former cabinet minister said: “No 10 lacks grey hair. It lacks a Willie Whitelaw. Frankly, Boris’s habit of not liking big guns around him is his fatal flaw. He doesn’t have any cabinet ministers who will call him up and say, ‘This is a f***ing stupid idea’.” Others say this criticism is unfair. “There is challenge there every day, with people putting across both sides of the argument,” a government source said. “There’s nothing casual about it.” The original plan to save Paterson was even more robust than the amendment.

    and

    Critics of the prime minister believe that the events of this week are part of a wider pattern. “The prime minister reverse ferrets not only in the building but in his own mind,” one government source said.

    “He says, ‘We’ve got to get this done.’ He’s very gung-ho and then he convinces himself it was never his position in the first place and seems to think it was someone else’s fault.” Within No 10, few are prepared to stand up to the prime minister and insecurity is rife. “No 10 is full of people that nod along because they’re worried about their own positions,” one staffer said.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/downing-street-yes-men-blamed-for-johnsons-failed-bid-to-save-owen-paterson-090mkzklf

    They need Cummings back.

    The problem is that they’ve burned their bridges there, so who can they persuade into No.10 to actually run the show?
    I actually spoke to someone who has worked in Downing Street in the past and they said nobody would want to work in Number 10 under Boris Johnson.

    He manages to couple the inertia of Mrs May's decision making process which then leads messy last minute decision making process which led to the Paterson fiasco.

    Then you've got Carrie Antoinette and her people in senior decision making roles and a parallel power base.

    It is well known Boris Johnson can make contradictory decisions within minutes.

    They all know one day it will go horribly wrong and nobody wants to be there for that.
    When the time finally comes (hopefully sooner rather than later) for (working title) "Boris Johnson - The Movie" who will play Himself?

    My nomination is - James Corden. With a fright wig.

    And who would be good in the role of Carrie? Maybe Lady Gaga?
    Nobody would have wanted to work in No 10 under Gordon Brown, the worst PM in several generations, but they did...
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,747
    https://twitter.com/ddeanjohnson/status/1456655163167490061?s=21

    More UAP legislation being tabled in the Senate. I particular enjoyed this line:

    “The term transmedium objects or devices means objects or devices that are observed to transition between space and the atmosphere, or between the atmosphere and bodies of water, that are not immediately identifiable”.

    Anyway you lot go back to arguing about some minor member of Dave Cameron’s government who almost no one in real life can remember.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,134
    LOL at Channel 4 news.

    Saying that COVID is as high as it was at the Peak....

    *Referring to 1 in 50 etc.

    Not at all journalistic shit-stirring.
  • Personal Statement -

    I wish to thank the Prime Minister and the entire Conservative Party unreservedly, for providing yours truly with much-need diversion and mirth in the immediate aftermath of the shit-kicking enduring by myself and fellow Democrats at the 2021 general election.

    Hope this makes it all worth it, on your side of the Atlantic AND the Pacific.
This discussion has been closed.