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Starmer’s successor looks set to be one of these three – politicalbetting.com

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  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. kinabalu, apologies, I missed your reply before.

    I'm not in favour of limiting recruitment by sex. Because of the particular nature of primary school teachers (often providing parental figures for those either lacking one or both parents or as a better version if said parents are rather bad examples) and the heavily slanted sex composition of schoolteachers I would like to see a recruitment drive for male teachers to increase the numbers. I would not advocate either all-male shortlists or some sort of quota, however.

    Well that would be positive discrimination - and I think I'd agree with it too. So, ok, you bridle at "quotas" and the like, but you can get behind positive discrimination where you see a real problem. Therefore it's a matter of where you see these real problems. Maybe that's restricted to 'too few men in primary teaching' but I'd be surprised if this were the case. I mean, there's so many high status arenas where women and/or certain minorities and/or working class people are underrepresented. There really is no doubt about that. It's simply a matter of do we wish to address it and if so how. My suspicion is that the answers are (i) not really and (ii) n/a. I think we're oddly attached to privilege in this country. We quite like it, including many of those who don't have it. We find it a comfortable notion.
    We are attached to privilege but not just in this country.

    When we gain a coveted position, most of us take the view that "God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it."
    It's also human nature to think we deserve it. This, imo, is one of the major handicaps the left in politics faces. That the biggest single determinant in life outcome is birth circumstances, this is true but a hard sell. It's not romantic. It's not nice to think about. And furthermore for most individual successes, the person owes a massive amount to luck and to other things/people, as opposed to their own 'merit'. Eg the bank trader using the firm's settlement and accounting processes, IT, balance sheet etc will nevertheless think HE has made the money. It's total bollox. But it's a necessary mental piece of falsethink for self esteem and justification. You see this all the time. The truth, the cold collectivist deterministic truth, is not palatable, therefore people reject it, protect the status quo, vote Conservative. This is why Labour don't win many elections - and why when they do they need to make it count.
    You also run up against one of the most powerful instincts of all: the need to make sure that your offspring succeed though whatever help you can give them. Any policy that seems to reduce the ability of people to help their children do better is not going to go down well, which is why IHT is so unpopular.
    Yep, very good point, that's key to the whole 'inequality' debate and a big obstacle to doing anything serious about reducing it. Because the hard fact is, you can't remove barriers in the way of the disadvantaged without making the passage through life of the advantaged more onerous. All is relative. The words "disadvantaged" and "advantaged" have no meaning otherwise. They mean "compared to". They have to mean that. I'd also throw something else into the pot - in addition to the "giving my children the best possible start in life" business which you highlight - and that's the tendency of 'ordinary' people, rather than resenting or disliking privilege, to think, "Good on them, perhaps one day that can be me, or my kids." Grrr.
    Personally - I think a bit more "equality of outcome" as opposed to "equality of opportunity" wouldn't go amiss.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    FWIW I've mentioned that a friend of mine works for a Job Centre Plus (one that trialled the rollout of UC)

    She's said 95% of their queries relate to the UC uplift cut as people are suffering from and are about to suffer financial hardship.

    So much so that the DWP ministers have added a 'The £20 uplift' option on the journal entry option.

    Yeah well some PBers (me) are actually on UC.

    It isn't much fun.
  • IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    It will be climate change and Christmas and HMQ maybe (but genuinely hope not)

    Sounds as if someone is on a lone mission to ramp up his hope of winning a bet with somebody
    The news will doubtless be full of the clown assuring everybody that we can rely upon him to save Christmas?
    He really does upset you and yet he is polling near 40% and leads his rival as best PM

    Maybe you need to be more constructive and put forward policies people could vote for and see him lose office
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
  • Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    It's what Boris does.

    Notice/create a problem.

    Dither.

    Avoid acting to solve it for so long that there's a painful gap between the problem and the solution.

    Great politics- solving a problem makes you a hero, preempt a problem and nobody cares.

    But it's rubbish leadership.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Biden took 85 cars to see the Pope. Quite the warm-up for COP 26.
    More important than handshake or kneel.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,105
    edited October 2021
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I await to see the male-only shortlists for primary school teachers.

    Would you like to see that?
    What about women-only shortlists for.... custodial sentences?
    Yeah, and what about 'smug affluent middle-class PBtory bloke' shortlists for cleaning the bogs at London Bridge station?
    I wonder who gets Euston bogs? (following the discussion yesterday).
    Oh I missed that. Was there a quality convo about public toilets? Pity, I could have added serious value there, I reckon.
    It was a discussion of trains and rail travel which explored, amongst much else, the way in which Euston has become run down in the anticipation of HS2- one of us remarked that the bogs were abominable by global standards (I forget whom alas). And, remarkably, Leon discovering his current residence is featured in one of the Bourne prints showing the devastation the navvies building the original railway wrought up through Camden and Primrose Hill - the Chesham of their day, evidently.
    Ah, ok. Well I'll chip in now then! Euston is a hellhole. Wind sweeps across the concrete (even if it's not windy), people on their uppers huddle and hustle around, tattoos and shell suits galore, emaciated girls with bruises and no tights, commuters who all look either pissed up or pissed off, absolutely nobody wanting to be there, or if they do it's for lack of an alternative. I love it.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    Perhaps. But I think it was a good move by Sunak anyway.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    There is a £500 million fund given to LA's to ameliorate the issue until the new scheme comes in on 1 December at the latest.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    It's what Boris does.

    Notice/create a problem.

    Dither.

    Avoid acting to solve it for so long that there's a painful gap between the problem and the solution.

    Great politics- solving a problem makes you a hero, preempt a problem and nobody cares.

    But it's rubbish leadership.
    I dont know , plenty of CEO's I have come across adopt that very strategy - and think they are wonderful at leadership in their egotistical ways
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    It will be climate change and Christmas and HMQ maybe (but genuinely hope not)

    Sounds as if someone is on a lone mission to ramp up his hope of winning a bet with somebody
    The news will doubtless be full of the clown assuring everybody that we can rely upon him to save Christmas?
    Gloomy Christmas if we get the King addressing us at 3 o clock
  • dixiedean said:

    Biden took 85 cars to see the Pope. Quite the warm-up for COP 26.
    More important than handshake or kneel.

    That's the Secret Service though?

    Because of the way things work, the Secret Service doesn't work for Biden, they work for Congress, who set the parameters for protection.
  • Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    They might when their deductions start in April.
    More likely their 6.6% pay rise
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    There is a £500 million fund given to LA's to ameliorate the issue until the new scheme comes in on 1 December at the latest.
    But that's bugger all.

    The UC uplift cost £6 billion per year, so every £1 cut only 8p is being covered by that fund.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,105
    JBriskin3 said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. kinabalu, apologies, I missed your reply before.

    I'm not in favour of limiting recruitment by sex. Because of the particular nature of primary school teachers (often providing parental figures for those either lacking one or both parents or as a better version if said parents are rather bad examples) and the heavily slanted sex composition of schoolteachers I would like to see a recruitment drive for male teachers to increase the numbers. I would not advocate either all-male shortlists or some sort of quota, however.

    Well that would be positive discrimination - and I think I'd agree with it too. So, ok, you bridle at "quotas" and the like, but you can get behind positive discrimination where you see a real problem. Therefore it's a matter of where you see these real problems. Maybe that's restricted to 'too few men in primary teaching' but I'd be surprised if this were the case. I mean, there's so many high status arenas where women and/or certain minorities and/or working class people are underrepresented. There really is no doubt about that. It's simply a matter of do we wish to address it and if so how. My suspicion is that the answers are (i) not really and (ii) n/a. I think we're oddly attached to privilege in this country. We quite like it, including many of those who don't have it. We find it a comfortable notion.
    We are attached to privilege but not just in this country.

    When we gain a coveted position, most of us take the view that "God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it."
    It's also human nature to think we deserve it. This, imo, is one of the major handicaps the left in politics faces. That the biggest single determinant in life outcome is birth circumstances, this is true but a hard sell. It's not romantic. It's not nice to think about. And furthermore for most individual successes, the person owes a massive amount to luck and to other things/people, as opposed to their own 'merit'. Eg the bank trader using the firm's settlement and accounting processes, IT, balance sheet etc will nevertheless think HE has made the money. It's total bollox. But it's a necessary mental piece of falsethink for self esteem and justification. You see this all the time. The truth, the cold collectivist deterministic truth, is not palatable, therefore people reject it, protect the status quo, vote Conservative. This is why Labour don't win many elections - and why when they do they need to make it count.
    You also run up against one of the most powerful instincts of all: the need to make sure that your offspring succeed though whatever help you can give them. Any policy that seems to reduce the ability of people to help their children do better is not going to go down well, which is why IHT is so unpopular.
    Yep, very good point, that's key to the whole 'inequality' debate and a big obstacle to doing anything serious about reducing it. Because the hard fact is, you can't remove barriers in the way of the disadvantaged without making the passage through life of the advantaged more onerous. All is relative. The words "disadvantaged" and "advantaged" have no meaning otherwise. They mean "compared to". They have to mean that. I'd also throw something else into the pot - in addition to the "giving my children the best possible start in life" business which you highlight - and that's the tendency of 'ordinary' people, rather than resenting or disliking privilege, to think, "Good on them, perhaps one day that can be me, or my kids." Grrr.
    Personally - I think a bit more "equality of outcome" as opposed to "equality of opportunity" wouldn't go amiss.
    :smile: - Totally. You have it there. You have it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Have a coffee, you seem to be drunk and hysterical.
    No just concerned about a virus that kills people and has put one my friends in hospital.
    If that's true I hope your friend gets better soon.

    But that's not an excuse for "Plan B" or restrictions.

    People getting sick isn't a reason to lock the country down, its the reason we have hospitals in the first place.
    If that’s true? Are you calling me a liar?
    You called me a liar earlier. A bit late to be precious about it.
  • The Tory wankfest has returned
  • Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    They might when their deductions start in April.
    More likely their 6.6% pay rise
    What do you think the inflation rate and the NI increase will do to that pay rise?
  • Our tax boffins tell me that the cost of the alcohol tax changes would have covered 60% of the UC uplift.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021
    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?
  • Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Have a coffee, you seem to be drunk and hysterical.
    No just concerned about a virus that kills people and has put one my friends in hospital.
    If that's true I hope your friend gets better soon.

    But that's not an excuse for "Plan B" or restrictions.

    People getting sick isn't a reason to lock the country down, its the reason we have hospitals in the first place.
    If that’s true? Are you calling me a liar?
    You called me a liar earlier. A bit late to be precious about it.
    I said if somebody has legitimate reasons for being exempt that's different, otherwise it's laziness or lying about being exempt. I wear a mask, if you don't have a legitimate reason on TfL services at least you're breaking the rules and that's on you
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    There is a £500 million fund given to LA's to ameliorate the issue until the new scheme comes in on 1 December at the latest.
    But that's bugger all.

    The UC uplift cost £6 billion per year, so every £1 cut only 8p is being covered by that fund.
    It helps the worse effected and 2 million will see the UC cut reversed from 1st December
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited October 2021
    If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy
  • What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    Yeah, it'll be lockdown with all fun things postponed.

    This from 2017 gives a good indicator.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    They might when their deductions start in April.
    More likely their 6.6% pay rise
    Far more get the new NI surcharge than get paid the minimum wage. Add in 4% inflation and that payrise is trivial for the workers that get it.

    The pensioners won't be bothered of course.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    There is a £500 million fund given to LA's to ameliorate the issue until the new scheme comes in on 1 December at the latest.
    But that's bugger all.

    The UC uplift cost £6 billion per year, so every £1 cut only 8p is being covered by that fund.
    It helps the worse effected and 2 million will see the UC cut reversed from 1st December
    Do you have a citation for that?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Are you able to spot the flaw in your logic there?
  • If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Are you able to spot the flaw in your logic there?
    No.

    Full employment is an economics term, it doesn't mean literally every single person is employed.
  • If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
    Not liking something is not a good reason to not wear a mask, when it is a requirement of travelling on those surfaces and it protects those around you. You and that lot are selfish and I have no sympathy for you at all.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Biden meets Macron:

    @ABC
    "What happened was, to use an English phrase, what we did was clumsy," Pres. Biden says during meeting with French Pres. Macron about the recent U.S. snub of France for nuclear submarine technology in favor of Australia.

    "France is an extremely, extremely valued partner."


    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1454135251056447491

    Why did Biden need to tell people he was speaking English? Does he normally speak a different language?
  • If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
    Not liking something is not a good reason to not wear a mask, when it is a requirement of travelling on those surfaces and it protects those around you. You and that lot are selfish and I have no sympathy for you at all.
    I don't think he's looking for your sympathy though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
    Some from the prosecution made the point that he isn't here to give his side of the story...
  • kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Are you able to spot the flaw in your logic there?
    No.

    Full employment is an economics term, it doesn't mean literally every single person is employed.
    I'm well aware that's it's an economic term meaning 5pc.

    However it is not so disconnected from the real world.

    My gaps on my CV are massive so it is not so easy for me to get a job "they can get a job" just isn't true.
  • If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
    Not liking something is not a good reason to not wear a mask, when it is a requirement of travelling on those surfaces and it protects those around you. You and that lot are selfish and I have no sympathy for you at all.
    I don't think he's looking for your sympathy though.
    Good because he's not getting it.

    If you want to not wear a mask and break the rules then that's up to you - but then I bet you lot will be the first to throw the book when somebody does something wrong
  • Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
    She did stab him three times including once when he was on the phone saying he had been wounded!
  • kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    Thats good then and fair play to not going OTT .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
    I very much doubt it. It would always be too much for many people, but I cannot see the media underdoing it for Her Majesty because of the DoE.

    Cynically, a lot of the material will already have been prepared and why waste it?
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    edited October 2021
    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Biden met Blair?
    Blair is also a Catholic nowadays for the record.
    My understanding is that he converted because he had been given assurances by the Bishop of Rome that beatification was on the cards, and that there'd be no need to wait for that whole "death" thing first.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
    She did stab him three times including once when he was on the phone saying he had been wounded!
    No one denies she did the stabbing.
  • Our tax boffins tell me that the cost of the alcohol tax changes would have covered 60% of the UC uplift.

    Absolutely no reason to keep the uplift.

    Even if 100% of the uplift could be kept, that entire 100% should go on reducing the taper instead.

    That'd leave those working for a living even better off than they were with the uplift - and the poverty trap addressed so that the unemployed will be better off if they work.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    Thats good then and fair play to not going OTT .
    It is only my suspicion, I wouldn't plan for me being right. On anything really.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
    That was simply the warm-up act. London Bridge is going to be like nothing any of us have seen before, even those few who remember 1952.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    They might when their deductions start in April.
    More likely their 6.6% pay rise
    Far more get the new NI surcharge than get paid the minimum wage. Add in 4% inflation and that payrise is trivial for the workers that get it.

    The pensioners won't be bothered of course.
    Pensioners are at 3.1% but I am grateful for any rise in these times
  • Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
    That was simply the warm-up act. London Bridge is going to be like nothing any of us have seen before, even those few who remember 1952.
    It's going to be 1997 on speed.

    I'll think I'll take a foreign holiday for a month or so when London Bridge falls.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
    She did stab him three times including once when he was on the phone saying he had been wounded!
    No one denies she did the stabbing.
    if anything it shows how lockdown is bad for people . A fact often forgot when people only count covid deaths as if that all that matters or indeed when wanting people trussed up in masks forever in some kind of non social interaction hell
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
    I very much doubt it. It would always be too much for many people, but I cannot see the media underdoing it for Her Majesty because of the DoE.

    Cynically, a lot of the material will already have been prepared and why waste it?
    It will be the Duke plus Diana, squared. It is a known fact that 93% of British people have had dreams about the Queen coming to tea. They don't dream that about Phil or Di.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    I suggest you read up on things like the Employment and Support Allowance which is being phased into Universal Credit before making ignorant comments like that.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
    Of course they don't like them! Masks are horrible things, and I'll throw a party when I get to burn mine.

    But given the way that Covid accumulates in enclosed spaces with lots of people (and remember that probably the most dangerous job on a deaths per hour of work was bus driver), it's common courtesy to wear them on crowded public transport. Just as it's common courtesy to cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
    She did stab him three times including once when he was on the phone saying he had been wounded!
    Yeah. That's not a good look.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
    Catholic leaders have rarely let the Catholic part overrule the second part.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited October 2021

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Yes. Those who have suffered the most in the budget are those who cannot, for whatever reason, work, or work few hours and can't increase them. They have been well and truly shafted. They don't benefit from the UC taper, their benefits are far too low, and they are going to really struggle with the rises in the cost of energy, food etc. and inflation generally.

    If I were a cynic, I'd suggest that the government knows this full well. They also know that this poorest 10% either don't vote or don't vote Tory if they do.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Yes. Those who have suffered the most in the budget are those who cannot, for whatever reason, work, or work few hours and can't increase them. They have been well and truly shafted. They don't benefit from the UC taper, their benefits are far too low, and they are going to really struggle with the rises in the cost of energy, food etc. and inflation generally.

    If I were a cynic, I'd suggest that the government knows this full well. They also know that this poorest 10% either don't vote or don't vote Tory if they do.
    That's the view of my friend.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    I suggest you read up on things like the Employment and Support Allowance which is being phased into Universal Credit before making ignorant comments like that.
    Yes and the ESA element if you have a limited capability for work is at a different rate to the generic UC for anyone else.

    So if you wish for that to be raise higher then that's an argument to be made, but there's absolutely no reason to do so for everyone else who already get a lower rate than that.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
    Of course they don't like them! Masks are horrible things, and I'll throw a party when I get to burn mine.

    But given the way that Covid accumulates in enclosed spaces with lots of people (and remember that probably the most dangerous job on a deaths per hour of work was bus driver), it's common courtesy to wear them on crowded public transport. Just as it's common courtesy to cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze.
    Given covid is no more fatal than flu at the moment (1 in 50 has it this week but only about 200 deaths ) then did you wear one pre covid because flu has always been here? time to move on and stop obsessing about it - just doing my bit for that
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
    Well then keep trying until you find an employer who is willing to stomach it. Many companies are doing so deliberately right now.

    If you've given up I see no reason the state should pay you not to be looking though.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,294

    rkrkrk said:

    Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Basically agree, but plan B has a mix of stuff in there, some of which I'm not sure about.

    We should definitely do all the low/no-cost stuff: bring back facemasks for public spaces/transit/buildings, encourage WFH. We should also be doing better ventilation in schools, workplaces. We could update the symptom guidelines which are out of date. We could be sorting out sick pay for people isolating.

    Basically throw everything cheap and easy at this. Then hope it's enough.
    Your daily reminder that mandating masks in public spaces is not no cost.
    They cost less than a dollar each. Basically free.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    edited October 2021
    kle4 said:

    French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.

    https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1454110348005490693

    Jean, that's what you say in the phone call, not the official letter. Do people just not even care about claiming the moral high ground anymore? That's actually a positive development.

    So no substance, just the French are butt-hurt.

    If it was not already clear it surely is now. France in not an ally of the UK.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Basically agree, but plan B has a mix of stuff in there, some of which I'm not sure about.

    We should definitely do all the low/no-cost stuff: bring back facemasks for public spaces/transit/buildings, encourage WFH. We should also be doing better ventilation in schools, workplaces. We could update the symptom guidelines which are out of date. We could be sorting out sick pay for people isolating.

    Basically throw everything cheap and easy at this. Then hope it's enough.
    Your daily reminder that mandating masks in public spaces is not no cost.
    They cost less than a dollar each. Basically free.
    Not to the planet.
  • rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Basically agree, but plan B has a mix of stuff in there, some of which I'm not sure about.

    We should definitely do all the low/no-cost stuff: bring back facemasks for public spaces/transit/buildings, encourage WFH. We should also be doing better ventilation in schools, workplaces. We could update the symptom guidelines which are out of date. We could be sorting out sick pay for people isolating.

    Basically throw everything cheap and easy at this. Then hope it's enough.
    Your daily reminder that mandating masks in public spaces is not no cost.
    They cost less than a dollar each. Basically free.
    The financial cost is not the only cost. 🙄
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
    Well then keep trying until you find an employer who is willing to stomach it. Many companies are doing so deliberately right now.

    If you've given up I see no reason the state should pay you not to be looking though.
    Cool - thanks for the advice. To be honest suicide is a way out of my predicament but please don't tell anyone about that otherwise I'll have Police Scotland knocking my door.
  • Foxy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Penelope Jackson case is an interesting one. I wonder if it will become a cause celebre over alleged coercive control and domestic violence. It does sound as if the jury didn't believe it.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/29/penelope-jackson-guilty-stabbing-husband-death

    But addressing the court, David Jackson’s estranged daughter from a former marriage, Jane Calverley, accused Penelope Jackson of being the abuser in the relationship and suggested she had “taken advantage” of a culture that does not support male victims of domestic abuse.

    “My father was a proud man and this consequently cost him his life. He would not seek help from someone bullying, berating and psychologically controlling him because he would have viewed that as a man he should not be experiencing this and felt shame,” she said.
    Yes, I see that the jury didn't believe her defence (by 10 to 2) but I suspect that we haven't heard the end of it.

    What sort of evidence would be required to prove it by either party?
    The fact that his estranged daughter said that he was the one being abused seems to have played a big part in this. I know of two men who were severely abused by their wives and it is quite a common occurance. One we worked with on the rigs in Norway. He would regularly come back to the rig black and blue and would claim it was because he was always getting into pub brawls. It was only after his wife made such a concerted attack on him that she fractured his skull that we found out she used to beat the shit out of him and he was too embarrassed to tell anyone.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,393
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
    Well then keep trying until you find an employer who is willing to stomach it. Many companies are doing so deliberately right now.

    If you've given up I see no reason the state should pay you not to be looking though.
    Cool - thanks for the advice. To be honest suicide is a way out of my predicament but please don't tell anyone about that otherwise I'll have Police Scotland knocking my door.
    I’m really sorry to hear of your circs. Genuinely there are places to get help with gaining employment. And have you thought of volunteering in the interim? Apologies if this comes across patronising, but please ask for help.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129

    rcs1000 said:

    If you can't be bothered to wear a mask then I don't have a lot of sympathy for you tbh, on TfL services it is required and part of the conditions of carriage, so unless you're legitimately exempt, then I stand by calling people either liars or lazy

    i was on the tube and DLR yesterday and did not wear a mask and neither did about 60% . People really dont like them
    Of course they don't like them! Masks are horrible things, and I'll throw a party when I get to burn mine.

    But given the way that Covid accumulates in enclosed spaces with lots of people (and remember that probably the most dangerous job on a deaths per hour of work was bus driver), it's common courtesy to wear them on crowded public transport. Just as it's common courtesy to cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze.
    Given covid is no more fatal than flu at the moment (1 in 50 has it this week but only about 200 deaths ) then did you wear one pre covid because flu has always been here? time to move on and stop obsessing about it - just doing my bit for that
    That's a little misleading, don't you think? The people most likely to have Covid right now are in the 5 to 15 age range, and they're highly unlikely to die of it. (Which, by the way, is great as it means it'll run through this cohort, and then remove a major vector of transmission.)

    The people I'm with on the tube are highly likely to be a lot older, and therefore to have a much higher CFR.

    I think wearing a mask in settings where there is substantially higher risk that I'll infect other people is common courtesy. It's not something I'd legally require (and if the tube wasn't busy I probably wouldn't worry), but I do try to avoid causing pain and suffering to my fellow man as a general rule, even if it involves some small discomfort for a 20 minute tube ride.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Some people are physically and/or mentally incapable of work. They really are. They're not malingerers. Indeed many may have worked for years or decades before becoming incapable of work. But shit happens. The fact you don't care is not an appealing trait.
    I'm quite OK with there being a higher rate for those who legitimately can't work and have been demonstrated that they can't - and that already happens. There is a higher rate for those with limited capabilities to work in the existing system.

    For anyone else, they should be given the support to get back to work.

    I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to uplift someone who is able to work's rate, if they're not bothering to work. Do you?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
    Well then keep trying until you find an employer who is willing to stomach it. Many companies are doing so deliberately right now.

    If you've given up I see no reason the state should pay you not to be looking though.
    Cool - thanks for the advice. To be honest suicide is a way out of my predicament but please don't tell anyone about that otherwise I'll have Police Scotland knocking my door.
    I’m really sorry to hear of your circs. Genuinely there are places to get help with gaining employment. And have you thought of volunteering in the interim? Apologies if this comes across patronising, but please ask for help.
    My Psychiatrist is organising Occupational Therapy for me.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    edited October 2021
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
    If I met anyone who genuinely believed he was God’s representative on earth I think I would probably laugh. I mean, being polite, I would try not to, but seriously.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
    Well then keep trying until you find an employer who is willing to stomach it. Many companies are doing so deliberately right now.

    If you've given up I see no reason the state should pay you not to be looking though.
    Cool - thanks for the advice. To be honest suicide is a way out of my predicament but please don't tell anyone about that otherwise I'll have Police Scotland knocking my door.
    Help and support is available for you if you need that.

    Perhaps try the Samaritans or any other organisations near you and see what help you can get if you need it?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited October 2021

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Some people are physically and/or mentally incapable of work. They really are. They're not malingerers. Indeed many may have worked for years or decades before becoming incapable of work. But shit happens. The fact you don't care is not an appealing trait.
    I'm quite OK with there being a higher rate for those who legitimately can't work and have been demonstrated that they can't - and that already happens. There is a higher rate for those with limited capabilities to work in the existing system.

    For anyone else, they should be given the support to get back to work.

    I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to uplift someone who is able to work's rate, if they're not bothering to work. Do you?
    Well, at least you've backed down from your previous statements: If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one, and: If anyone isn't working, they can get a job.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    DavidL said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
    If I met anyone who genuinely believed he was God’s representative on earth I think I would probably laugh. I mean, being polite, I would try not to, but seriously.
    Catholicism is the most believed religion in the world.
  • DavidL said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
    If I met anyone who genuinely believed he was God’s representative on earth I think I would probably laugh. I mean, being polite, I would try not to, but seriously.
    Same mistake though that Pontious Pilate (no idea how you spell it ) made t
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Evening all :)

    As always, throwing phrases like "full employment" round is misleading and often belies a simplistic approach to complex issues.

    The question isn't that there are plenty of jobs but what kind of jobs, where and how much they are paying. There are acute shortages in some professions in key areas - we know that. It's the epitome of the square peg and the round hole - those available for work and the jobs available for them to do.

    It is also a problem at the lowest end of the labour market where the jobs are often unpleasant and repetitive and still not well paid. It's also a problem in some professions where the lack of suitably-qualified people means a buyers' market where individuals can quickly move up the salary ladder leaving those companies and organisations which can't or won't pay the new "going rate" in trouble.

    It is these shortages in key professional and skilled areas which drive up wage and price inflation not the old chestnut of why we can't find anyone to clean the toilets (for example).

    The "answer" which is straight out of the Tony Blair handbook is to raise the skill level of the native population - that works up to a point but this is why the immigration of the skilled and the professional is always welcomed and supported.

    The trouble is, the jobs at the lowest end are still going begging or at least until AI so we are told.

    Finally, commiserations to those who backed the Conservatives in Carlisle last evening. If you've another tenner to spend on a long-range lost cause, I'll offer DELTA WORK in the Champion Chase at Down Royal tomorrow afternoon.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021
    I see Ms Dick of the Yard is wanting to add to doom and gloom (as if covid is not enough ) by saying Londoners shoudl be "alert " to a terrorist threat this Christmas . I mean is this really necessary ? You know, make people thing they could be blown up /shot or stabbed as they go Christmas Shopping - for no reason- because lets face it how alert do you have to be to avoid a terrorist attack? - you just need to be lucky or not unlucky . The police and intelligence service should be alert , shoppers not so unless we really want to live in a society where everything causes anxiety due to needing to be "alert"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
    The lesson ought to have been, wall to wall on one channel, something else to watch on the others.

    Whether they are bright enough to have worked that out is another matter
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    DavidL said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
    If I met anyone who genuinely believed he was God’s representative on earth I think I would probably laugh. I mean, being polite, I would try not to, but seriously.
    Same mistake though that Pontious Pilate (no idea how you spell it ) made t

    DavidL said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Joe Biden is a Catholic, but he is also President of the United States.

    And if you are expecting a sitting POTUS to kiss ANYONE's ring (except for #45 with his mentor Putin, he certainly kissed his "ring" often enough) you are nuttier than even I think you are.
    Nope.

    If I met who I thought to be was God's representative on earth I would kneel.
    If I met anyone who genuinely believed he was God’s representative on earth I think I would probably laugh. I mean, being polite, I would try not to, but seriously.
    Same mistake though that Pontious Pilate (no idea how you spell it ) made t
    That’s what you get for listening to Mick Jagger.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    As always, throwing phrases like "full employment" round is misleading and often belies a simplistic approach to complex issues.

    The question isn't that there are plenty of jobs but what kind of jobs, where and how much they are paying. There are acute shortages in some professions in key areas - we know that. It's the epitome of the square peg and the round hole - those available for work and the jobs available for them to do.

    It is also a problem at the lowest end of the labour market where the jobs are often unpleasant and repetitive and still not well paid. It's also a problem in some professions where the lack of suitably-qualified people means a buyers' market where individuals can quickly move up the salary ladder leaving those companies and organisations which can't or won't pay the new "going rate" in trouble.

    It is these shortages in key professional and skilled areas which drive up wage and price inflation not the old chestnut of why we can't find anyone to clean the toilets (for example).

    The "answer" which is straight out of the Tony Blair handbook is to raise the skill level of the native population - that works up to a point but this is why the immigration of the skilled and the professional is always welcomed and supported.

    The trouble is, the jobs at the lowest end are still going begging or at least until AI so we are told.

    Finally, commiserations to those who backed the Conservatives in Carlisle last evening. If you've another tenner to spend on a long-range lost cause, I'll offer DELTA WORK in the Champion Chase at Down Royal tomorrow afternoon.

    If DELTA WORK runs at anything like the speed that Delta spreads, it looks like a good bet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,253
    Nice of the French to confirm what Remainers once tried to deny

    “French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.”


    https://twitter.com/barnes_joe/status/1454110348005490693?s=21
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
    But they'll compare it to the income of the previous 18 out 19 months rather than the last one?
    By my back of the fag paper maths, anyone working full time will be directly better off with the taper cut than they were with the £20 uplift.

    Indirectly they'll be much better off due to the easing of the poverty trap.

    If anyone isn't working, they can get a job. We have full employment.
    Except, I'll state this again, UC isn't just a de facto unemployment benefit, it merged things for people who cannot work/work more hours.

    The taper relief makes no impact for them.
    Then they should work. 🤷‍♂️

    We have full employment and the ability to work from home. If you want more money then work for it.
    You keep using this "full employment" term but don't seem understand the laws of supply and demand.
    I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. There's great demand right now for labour up and down the country.

    If anyone doesn't have a job, now is the time to go and get one - and the government has just rightly cut the tax on getting one.

    That's better than a handout. Keep more of your own money you work for instead.
    Well the gaps on my CV are too great for potential employers to stomach.

    Until that changes I'll be unemployed during a period of "full employment"
    You should see the gaps on *my* CV :lol:
  • IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    What will be the effect on the practical lives of Brits if the Queen does die? I knwo there will be official mourning but what does that mean beside a lot of Nicolas Witchell and everyone looking really sad on TV ? Will shops shut ,cinemas close etc?

    The plans are known in detail.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/16/what-happens-when-queen-elizabeth-dies-london-bridge

    But at its most basic, even if you are a royalist, avoid television for two weeks. And on the day probably several things will close early, but most not I suspect. So practical effect looks like not that much.

    And I don't think there's an 'If' about it.
    The London Bridge plans might have been revised after complaints about DofE RIP overkill.
    The lesson ought to have been, wall to wall on one channel, something else to watch on the others.

    Whether they are bright enough to have worked that out is another matter
    Probably a bit of FOMO though if the Channel head of the one that is excused from having to mourn gets jealous of his or her more mournful colleagues.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    I see Ms Dick of the Yard is wanting to add to doom and gloom (as if covid is not enough ) by saying Londoners shoudl be "alert " to a terrorist threat this Christmas . I mean is this really necessary ? You know, make people thing they could be blown up /shot or stabbed as they go Christmas Shopping - for no reason- because lets face it how alert do you have to be to avoid a terrorist attack? - you just need to be lucky or not unlucky . The police and intelligence service should be alert , shoppers not so unless we really want to live in a society where everything causes anxiety due to needing to be "alert"

    To call her a dick is a deep insult to millions of well meaning prats and fools who might otherwise suffer that epithet.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021
    Leon said:

    Nice of the French to confirm what Remainers once tried to deny

    “French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.”


    https://twitter.com/barnes_joe/status/1454110348005490693?s=21

    Not sure this tete a tete is a vindication of LEAVE given these arguments naturally occur between rival organisations/countries or people- Its the act of leaving and pitting ourselves against France that causes it not the fact that the French are wrong or evil or petty .Since the year dot rivals have arguments and seek revenge .
This discussion has been closed.