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Starmer’s successor looks set to be one of these three – politicalbetting.com

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  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    Can you post a link to the letter?
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1454180320169930753?s=20
    Ok Wickham's wrong though. That letter does not say "France tells Brussels it must demonstrate that Britain has been damaged by leaving the EU".

    Nor does the letter call on the EU to "damage" a former member state, as you suggested earlier.
    It calls for a punishment beating, to educate European public opinion on the evils of Brexit. That's what it says. Denying this is futile. Remainers are cretins
    No, Leavers are cretins.

    Solidarity is the basis of a Union and we are no longer in it.
    You can sort of see why the EU, a union of consent, might wave a big, encouraging stick from time to time. Why the UK, a union of constraint, feels the need to is another question.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,807
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    Can you post a link to the letter?
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1454180320169930753?s=20
    Ok Wickham's wrong though. That letter does not say "France tells Brussels it must demonstrate that Britain has been damaged by leaving the EU".

    Nor does the letter call on the EU to "damage" a former member state, as you suggested earlier.
    It calls for a punishment beating, to educate European public opinion on the evils of Brexit. That's what it says. Denying this is futile. Remainers are cretins
    Never let the facts get in the way of your ridiculous prejudices.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,355
    Andy_JS said:

    "The catastrophe of NHS Test and Trace
    It wasn’t just a waste of money – it failed to prevent two more lockdowns.
    ANDREW ORLOWSKI"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/29/the-catastrophe-of-nhs-test-and-trace/

    Ironically, the specific failure of test and trace in Wolverhampton, and the resulting COVID surge in Wessex, might be as near as we ever get to evidence that T&T at least did something.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,958
    Foxy said:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest-reigning_monarchs

    I'm a staunch supporter of the Queen (but not the Monarchy). She's got to get number one and displace the French.

    May 27th 2024.

    That's 25 days after the next general election if the FTPA isn't repealed or circumvented.
    Is that the over/under line?

    I would go under.
    It's the date at which her reign would exceed in length that of Louis IX, and become the longest reigning monarch of all time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    Can you post a link to the letter?
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1454180320169930753?s=20
    Ok Wickham's wrong though. That letter does not say "France tells Brussels it must demonstrate that Britain has been damaged by leaving the EU".

    Nor does the letter call on the EU to "damage" a former member state, as you suggested earlier.
    It calls for a punishment beating, to educate European public opinion on the evils of Brexit. That's what it says. Denying this is futile. Remainers are cretins
    No, Leavers are cretins.

    Solidarity is the basis of a Union and we are no longer in it.
    Your denial of what this letter says, and all that it implies, is just dim. It is there, written down. Everyone can see the many translations

    To be fair to smarter Remainers on Twitter, they are admitting that this is an embarrassing mistake, at best, and not at all helpful for France/Brussels.

    It does shine a light on elite French thinking, tho. Deep down they see Brexit as an existential threat to the EU, which is their core ideology. We must never be allowed to prosper EVER, or others will follow our example. This is a big problem for them, and because of them, for us. They REALLY need to get over Brexit
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    edited October 2021
    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The catastrophe of NHS Test and Trace
    It wasn’t just a waste of money – it failed to prevent two more lockdowns.
    ANDREW ORLOWSKI"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/29/the-catastrophe-of-nhs-test-and-trace/

    Ironically, the specific failure of test and trace in Wolverhampton, and the resulting COVID surge in Wessex, might be as near as we ever get to evidence that T&T at least did something.
    I’m not convinced we are having a surge of cases. We are seeing the surge of retesting, and that is now subsiding.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Farooq said:

    It's just possible that both remainers and leavers are cretins

    No, leavers are cretins period!.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606


    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    Can you post a link to the letter?
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1454180320169930753?s=20
    Ok Wickham's wrong though. That letter does not say "France tells Brussels it must demonstrate that Britain has been damaged by leaving the EU".

    Nor does the letter call on the EU to "damage" a former member state, as you suggested earlier.
    How do you think Castex wants the EU to "montrer" the "dommages"? He's not asking them for a Powerpoint presentation.
    By not doing anything to ameliorate the inherent disadvantages for the UK of Brexit.
    And what, exactly, does this have to do with fish?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    Farooq said:

    It's just possible that both remainers and leavers are cretins

    What does that make fence-sitters?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485
    Blimey.
    Just flicking through channels and Graham Norton is interviewing....
    Obama and Springsteen.
    He's upped his guest quality.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Farooq said:

    It's just possible that both remainers and leavers are cretins

    I would allow that

    There is one intriguing etymology of "cretin" which derives it from the French/Latin for Christians, ie - anyone or everyone


    Cretin (n.)
    1779, from French crétin (18c.), from Alpine dialect crestin, "a dwarfed and deformed idiot" of a type formerly found in families in the Alpine lands, a condition caused by a congenital deficiency of thyroid hormones. The word is of uncertain origin. By many it has been identified with Vulgar Latin *christianus "a Christian," a generic term for "anyone," but often with a sense of "poor fellow." Related: Cretinism (1796).

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/cretin


    We are ALL cretins
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,355

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The catastrophe of NHS Test and Trace
    It wasn’t just a waste of money – it failed to prevent two more lockdowns.
    ANDREW ORLOWSKI"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/29/the-catastrophe-of-nhs-test-and-trace/

    Ironically, the specific failure of test and trace in Wolverhampton, and the resulting COVID surge in Wessex, might be as near as we ever get to evidence that T&T at least did something.
    I’m not convinced we are having a surge of cases. We are seeing the surge or retesting, and that is now subsiding.
    Retests and new tests are something those with access to the raw (anonymised) data sets could split out. Would be an interesting thing to do. Retesting is deffo a substantial skewing factor though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597

    Farooq said:

    It's just possible that both remainers and leavers are cretins

    What does that make fence-sitters?
    Bold, visionary heroes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    edited October 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Blimey.
    Just flicking through channels and Graham Norton is interviewing....
    Obama and Springsteen.
    He's upped his guest quality.

    Or they've gone down in the world?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,484
    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    It's just possible that both remainers and leavers are cretins

    I would allow that

    There is one intriguing etymology of "cretin" which derives it from the French/Latin for Christians, ie - anyone or everyone


    Cretin (n.)
    1779, from French crétin (18c.), from Alpine dialect crestin, "a dwarfed and deformed idiot" of a type formerly found in families in the Alpine lands, a condition caused by a congenital deficiency of thyroid hormones. The word is of uncertain origin. By many it has been identified with Vulgar Latin *christianus "a Christian," a generic term for "anyone," but often with a sense of "poor fellow." Related: Cretinism (1796).

    https://www.etymonline.com/word/cretin


    We are ALL cretins
    Though some more than others.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,700
    Pro_Rata said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The catastrophe of NHS Test and Trace
    It wasn’t just a waste of money – it failed to prevent two more lockdowns.
    ANDREW ORLOWSKI"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/29/the-catastrophe-of-nhs-test-and-trace/

    Ironically, the specific failure of test and trace in Wolverhampton, and the resulting COVID surge in Wessex, might be as near as we ever get to evidence that T&T at least did something.
    I’m not convinced we are having a surge of cases. We are seeing the surge or retesting, and that is now subsiding.
    Retests and new tests are something those with access to the raw (anonymised) data sets could split out. Would be an interesting thing to do. Retesting is deffo a substantial skewing factor though.
    If you look at say the Wiltshire cases on the dashboard there is a definite hump up and now it is returning back to where it was. I know from acquaintances that they were offered fresh tests. The wise ones turned them down as they were clearing the Covid but would surely still test positive on PCR and thus book 10 more days shut in. I think others have been less discerning.
    I think the ons did not show big differences in the SW from the average, so if the surge was real, we’d have seen it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,172
    edited October 2021
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    It's just possible that both remainers and leavers are cretins

    What does that make fence-sitters?
    Bold, visionary heroes.
    I have no strong feelings one way or another.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    Watching a rather amusing Korean drama on Netflix. They often seem to have weird tones, these Korean shows - it's about a South Korean business heiress and a North Korean soldier, and it's half romantic soap opera, and then half, suddenly, 'Right, she's stuck in North Korea and they could both be killed at any moment by the authorities'.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,143
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Blimey.
    Just flicking through channels and Graham Norton is interviewing....
    Obama and Springsteen.
    He's upped his guest quality.

    Or they've gone down in the world?
    Springsteen has. Normally he would be supporting a Clinton. :smiley:
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,333
    Spare a thought for Denis MacShane's friend who is really suffering because of Brexit:

    @DenisMacShane
    A friend, successful French businessman in UK emails that his favourite wet suit (water ski) comes from Germany. No longer delivered to UK. His favourite sox are from Selfridges but can't order them on line. Shower gel is Czech. They deliver worldwide but not UK. Bravo Brexit!


    https://twitter.com/DenisMacShane/status/1454145787798167558
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    Can you post a link to the letter?
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1454180320169930753?s=20
    Ok Wickham's wrong though. That letter does not say "France tells Brussels it must demonstrate that Britain has been damaged by leaving the EU".

    Nor does the letter call on the EU to "damage" a former member state, as you suggested earlier.
    No, it is little more than a reiteration of Merkel's mantra that there must be costs to leaving the EU.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    That says, There are disadvantages to leaving the Union just as there are disadvantages to staying in it.
    "that there is MORE damage to leaving the Union than in staying there"
    Hardly the "punishment beating" we were told though.

    Indeed a statement of banal truth.
    If only there was a phrase, in French*, that meant to make a display of punishment to prevent further infractions by others.

    (I am assuming not actually a French idiom)
    I believe it was a French response to the execution of a British admiral, pour encourager les autres. Not sure what Les had done though...
    Wasn’t it capturing Gibraltar on the grounds it was more valuable than his instructed target of Minorca?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485
    edited October 2021

    Spare a thought for Denis MacShane's friend who is really suffering because of Brexit:

    @DenisMacShane
    A friend, successful French businessman in UK emails that his favourite wet suit (water ski) comes from Germany. No longer delivered to UK. His favourite sox are from Selfridges but can't order them on line. Shower gel is Czech. They deliver worldwide but not UK. Bravo Brexit!


    https://twitter.com/DenisMacShane/status/1454145787798167558

    Who on Earth has favourite socks? Or is fussy about shower gel?
    And regularly buys wet suits?
    Dislike the term Remoaner. But... Some years ago this would be described as unspoofable.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    Can you post a link to the letter?
    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1454180320169930753?s=20
    Ok Wickham's wrong though. That letter does not say "France tells Brussels it must demonstrate that Britain has been damaged by leaving the EU".

    Nor does the letter call on the EU to "damage" a former member state, as you suggested earlier.
    It calls for a punishment beating, to educate European public opinion on the evils of Brexit. That's what it says. Denying this is futile. Remainers are cretins
    No, Leavers are cretins.

    Solidarity is the basis of a Union and we are no longer in it.
    You can sort of see why the EU, a union of consent, might wave a big, encouraging stick from time to time. Why the UK, a union of constraint, feels the need to is another question.
    Because in this example they self evidently have no case. There are plenty of situations I assume where they would be able to justify their actions
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485
    Am watching NBA for the first time in years.
    The standard of shooting is bloody incredible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,597
    dixiedean said:

    Am watching NBA for the first time in years.
    The standard of shooting is bloody incredible.

    Not a basketball fan, but whenever I catch clip compilations and the like it's pretty impressive stuff, in a way I feel it'd be harder to tell for a football novice watching random clips.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    I suggest Mike knocks this thread on the head pour encourager les autres.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,883

    Spare a thought for Denis MacShane's friend who is really suffering because of Brexit:

    @DenisMacShane
    A friend, successful French businessman in UK emails that his favourite wet suit (water ski) comes from Germany. No longer delivered to UK. His favourite sox are from Selfridges but can't order them on line. Shower gel is Czech. They deliver worldwide but not UK. Bravo Brexit!


    https://twitter.com/DenisMacShane/status/1454145787798167558

    I know the shower gel he's talking about, probably. It's on Amazon:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-Shower-300ml-Czech-Republic/dp/B07QDKBX54

    And, in fact the manufacturer will ship to the uk:



    Russians and Ukrainians, though? Out in the cold...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572

    Pro_Rata said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The catastrophe of NHS Test and Trace
    It wasn’t just a waste of money – it failed to prevent two more lockdowns.
    ANDREW ORLOWSKI"

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/10/29/the-catastrophe-of-nhs-test-and-trace/

    Ironically, the specific failure of test and trace in Wolverhampton, and the resulting COVID surge in Wessex, might be as near as we ever get to evidence that T&T at least did something.
    I’m not convinced we are having a surge of cases. We are seeing the surge of retesting, and that is now subsiding.
    Not convinced we can read much into the case numbers because of the testing variation, but they seem to be fairly steady around 40K. What's more worrying is the hospitalisation number which has been rising steadily towards 10K over the last few days.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,485
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Am watching NBA for the first time in years.
    The standard of shooting is bloody incredible.

    Not a basketball fan, but whenever I catch clip compilations and the like it's pretty impressive stuff, in a way I feel it'd be harder to tell for a football novice watching random clips.
    Used to play. (Was 5 10 at age 12). It is a damned sight harder to even hit the rim, let alone get it in, than it looks.
    Am still 5 10 btw.
    My stubborn refusal to grow taller ruined my nascent career.
    Absolutely wonderful sporting experience to sit on the front row courtside. Even for British game. One of the sports much more impressive live at close quarters.
  • Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    That says, There are disadvantages to leaving the Union just as there are disadvantages to staying in it.
    "that there is MORE damage to leaving the Union than in staying there"
    Hardly the "punishment beating" we were told though.

    Indeed a statement of banal truth.
    If only there was a phrase, in French*, that meant to make a display of punishment to prevent further infractions by others.

    (I am assuming not actually a French idiom)
    I believe it was a French response to the execution of a British admiral, pour encourager les autres. Not sure what Les had done though...
    Wasn’t it capturing Gibraltar on the grounds it was more valuable than his instructed target of Minorca?
    Both Gibraltar AND Menorca were ceded to Britain by the Treaty of Utrecht.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,686
    This is a depressing article for anyone worried about racism in the US: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/kenosha-charlottesville-georgia-trials-justice-system-race.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Scottish Independence Voting Intention:

    Yes: 48% (=)
    No: 52% (=)

    Via
    @SavantaComRes
    , 22-28 Oct.
    Changes w/ 3-9 Sep.


    8 of the last 10 polls have shown a lead for NO, one has shown a lead for YES

    No way Sturgeon is ever calling her indyref2
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,841
    edited October 2021
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    I don't see this as helpful for Macron or France. A leading EU country calling on the EU to "damage" a former member state, to prove the folly of leaving the EU?

    It sounds unhinged, even if it has its own cold logic. It was also a private letter. I reckon it was leaked to hurt French interests and/or specific politicians. It could just be some internal French rivalry: an enemy of Macron/Castex

    What a weird way to find out that even with a decade + of zero use, my French appears to be better than that of... 99% of the Brexit commmentariat in the UK.

    That letter *doesn't* say that the EU should hurt the UK to show that Brexit was a bad idea. It really just doesn't.

    https://twitter.com/sylviademars/status/1454191198982316038
    No, it really does

    He says, end of page one, that the EU must *show* (montrer) that it is more harmful to leave than to stay (qu'il y a davantage de dommages à quitter l'Union qu'à y demeurer).
    That says, There are disadvantages to leaving the Union just as there are disadvantages to staying in it.
    "that there is MORE damage to leaving the Union than in staying there"
    Hardly the "punishment beating" we were told though.

    Indeed a statement of banal truth.
    If only there was a phrase, in French*, that meant to make a display of punishment to prevent further infractions by others.

    (I am assuming not actually a French idiom)
    I believe it was a French response to the execution of a British admiral, pour encourager les autres. Not sure what Les had done though...
    Wasn’t it capturing Gibraltar on the grounds it was more valuable than his instructed target of Minorca?
    No. He was ordered to relieve Minorca, which was under French attack. However, he had insufficient soldiers to effect a landing and after being challenged by the French, with his already small and undermanned fleet damaged, he returned to Gibraltar with the intention of repairing and coming back with a fresh force to have another go.

    However, the British government received him of command before he could make the attempt. Thereby ironically dooming the garrison at Minorca, which is what Byng was actually shot for…
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