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Starmer’s successor looks set to be one of these three – politicalbetting.com

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  • pigeon said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Quite possibly not, although if this turns into a permanent physical decline that limits her ability to discharge her role then the time will have come for retirement.

    If the Queen point blank refuses to abdicate then that's no barrier: the mechanism exists to declare a Regency.
    I'm going to ask Shadsy to put up a market on who the Regent shall be.

    My money will be going on Boris Johnson.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,604

    pigeon said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Quite possibly not, although if this turns into a permanent physical decline that limits her ability to discharge her role then the time will have come for retirement.

    If the Queen point blank refuses to abdicate then that's no barrier: the mechanism exists to declare a Regency.
    I'm going to ask Shadsy to put up a market on who the Regent shall be.

    My money will be going on Boris Johnson.
    Perhaps a well-known resident of Regent's Park, Peter Mandelson.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Less than a third of people view it as having a negative effect on them or the country is "falling apart"?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    During COP26 perhaps?
    I'm in London between the 25th of November and the 28th of November, I would greatly appreciate if Brenda can delay things until after that. I have non refundable tickets and hotel rooms and don't want to see them become unusable.
    Why would they become unusable?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Yes. Doctors haven't seriously prescribed "rest" since they started working out how to actually cure stuff, two centuries back
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,626
    edited October 2021
    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,228
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Basically agree, but plan B has a mix of stuff in there, some of which I'm not sure about.

    We should definitely do all the low/no-cost stuff: bring back facemasks for public spaces/transit/buildings, encourage WFH. We should also be doing better ventilation in schools, workplaces. We could update the symptom guidelines which are out of date. We could be sorting out sick pay for people isolating.

    Basically throw everything cheap and easy at this. Then hope it's enough.
    Your daily reminder that mandating masks in public spaces is not no cost.
    + it doesn't even work cf Scotland and England Covid rates during the Summer/Autumn.
    I'm going to copy and paste this as often as is needed:

    I've been thinking about how to best explain why the "Wales / England, masks / maskless" comparisons don't work. It's a car analogy.

    Person A: "Using winter tyres in the summer uses more petrol, so it's better to shift to summer tyres when it's warm."
    Person B: "Ah-ha, but I'm using winter tyres here in Norfolk and you're using summer tyres there in Braemar, and my fuel efficiency is the same as yours! Therefore it makes no difference!"
    Person A: "Yes, because I'm forever driving up steep hills, and you're not. It would be worse again for me if I was using winter tyres"

    Obviously, this vignette also proves nothing, but try to keep it in mind when you think about bulk comparisons between two different places implementing different policies.

    The claim is that masks lower infection rates compared to not using them.
    The claim is NOT that masks make your infection rates lower than unmasked places.

    It's a subtlety that can easily be lost in a debate, but it's a vital one for any system where multiple independent variables control a dependent variable (which is say basically everything in the real world).
    I'm too drunk too understand the nuances in your argument. But I wear my mask in the local shop when most people don't seem to.
    Then I'll simplify it:
    you might well be saving their lives, so well done.
    I understood your point on re-reading. I don't really agree but I do wear my mask so a happy compromise.
    You don't really need to agree for me to be right. I won't tread on your opinion but on a point of scientific fact, masks work.
    If masks work then why the disparity in the Scotland and England Covid rates over the summer/autumn?
    I'm going to copy and paste this as often as is needed:

    I've been thinking about how to best explain why the "Wales / England, masks / maskless" comparisons don't work. It's a car analogy.

    Person A: "Using winter tyres in the summer uses more petrol, so it's better to shift to summer tyres when it's warm."
    Person B: "Ah-ha, but I'm using winter tyres here in Norfolk and you're using summer tyres there in Braemar, and my fuel efficiency is the same as yours! Therefore it makes no difference!"
    Person A: "Yes, because I'm forever driving up steep hills, and you're not. It would be worse again for me if I was using winter tyres"

    Obviously, this vignette also proves nothing, but try to keep it in mind when you think about bulk comparisons between two different places implementing different policies.

    The claim is that masks lower infection rates compared to not using them.
    The claim is NOT that masks make your infection rates lower than unmasked places.

    It's a subtlety that can easily be lost in a debate, but it's a vital one for any system where multiple independent variables control a dependent variable (which is say basically everything in the real world).
    Also - the timing differences in peaks show prima facie that it is not a simple matter of masks causing covid.

    Scotland is now (pace COP26) much lower in covid than England generally, but I haven't seen folk on here ascribing that entirely to the continuation of mask wearing.
    Everyone has pet theories about the *why* of each peak. I seem only to find reasons why each idea is not correct.

    For example the recent decline in cases in England isn't caused by half term (peaked around the 16th) and isn't due to everyone being on holiday (positivity)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,228

    pigeon said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Quite possibly not, although if this turns into a permanent physical decline that limits her ability to discharge her role then the time will have come for retirement.

    If the Queen point blank refuses to abdicate then that's no barrier: the mechanism exists to declare a Regency.
    I'm going to ask Shadsy to put up a market on who the Regent shall be.

    My money will be going on Boris Johnson.
    "Regent"? I think you mis-spelt Lord Protector, in that case.....
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    pigeon said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Quite possibly not, although if this turns into a permanent physical decline that limits her ability to discharge her role then the time will have come for retirement.

    If the Queen point blank refuses to abdicate then that's no barrier: the mechanism exists to declare a Regency.
    I seem to recall reading that HMQ would, basically, retire to Balmoral when Prince Philip passed. That certainly hasn't happened and up until very recently she has seemed very prominent. Maybe HM has just overdone it a bit. Hope it's just that.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Based on the record of hospital stories for previous elderly royals, and for old people generally, I'd say she still has a few years at least.

    Unless there's a whole bunch of other hospital visits that we've not been told about.
  • pigeon said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Quite possibly not, although if this turns into a permanent physical decline that limits her ability to discharge her role then the time will have come for retirement.

    If the Queen point blank refuses to abdicate then that's no barrier: the mechanism exists to declare a Regency.
    I'm going to ask Shadsy to put up a market on who the Regent shall be.

    My money will be going on Boris Johnson.
    "Regent"? I think you mis-spelt Lord Protector, in that case.....
    Nah, he'll solemnly announce that the Queen's final act was to appoint him Duke of Windsor.
  • Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    During COP26 perhaps?
    I'm in London between the 25th of November and the 28th of November, I would greatly appreciate if Brenda can delay things until after that. I have non refundable tickets and hotel rooms and don't want to see them become unusable.
    I think the thing we all need to know is has Mike got any holidays booked?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,105
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    To be honest, an all woman shortlist might be the only way Labour elects a female leader. And even then I'm not convinced that they wouldn't mess it up!

    Would physically-male-candidates-who-self-identify-as-women* be allowed to stand

    * genuine question - am so confused by the right words now… there must be a snappier way of describing someone like that?
    Transwomen.

    Sorry to hear about the confusion over words. I'm sure it's nothing. Did you get your 8 hours last night?
    I start from the position of not wishing to inadvertently cause offence. As the topic is so fast moving and controversial and I don’t really care enough to follow it in detail I didn’t want to make a mistake
    Yes, sorry, my snark wasn't apt there. Thought you were pushing the old "oh lord, what DO you call these types these days?" general reactionary trope - ho ho and yawn yawn - but I now sense you weren't. I'm a bit 'off' today, not sure why. Probably because I've been staying in the Cotswolds. That can mess with your head a bit.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Yes. Doctors haven't seriously prescribed "rest" since they started working out how to actually cure stuff, two centuries back
    I was told to rest after a bout of pneumonia: should I have been more worried?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,604
    French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.

    https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1454110348005490693
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    Why should one expect every profession to reflect the make up of society at large?

    When they are making laws for society at large, frankly or even serving them coffee, then I think they absolutely should do.
    You were an army officer. Should the army operate on the basis that 51% of its officer class must be be female, 15% from ethnic minorities, 93% from State schools etc.?
    I struggle to see how the army would be worse if so. The entry requirements are the entry requirements.

    And I've got to believe that we are close to that for those last two (ethnic minorities and state schools, although it probably repays some googling).

    Edit: 12.9% ethnic minorities in the army it seems from Google.
    And had you been turned down, because your particular social group had reached its quota for that year, would you consider that fair?

    Edit: I do note that in 2019 49% of officer cadets came from private schools, compared to 7% of the population.
    Where did you get that figure from? It is misleading at best: 7% of the school age population are at private schools, but as many mix and match the proportion that spend some time at a private school is over double: 18% of sixth-formers are at an independent school according to wiki.
    Fair point. Btu, certainly, the army officer class is disproportionately drawn from the privately educated.
    How many state schools have CCF contingents (and I know some do from direct experience: in most schools seeing some of your pupils with weapons would lead to a panicked call to the Head or even the police, in that one you just thought “must be Thursday” and moved on).
    Mine does.

    Not that some of them need an excuse to carry weapons, tbf.
    I once confiscated a sword...
    Never been that far. A kukri is the best one I've had to deal with.
    When I was about 13, I bough a hunking great Kukri from a stall at the Ideal Home Exhibition at the NEC.
  • RobD said:

    Less than a third of people view it as having a negative effect on them or the country is "falling apart"?
    This budget is popular according to Opinium

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1453787187661713414?t=i_P3HcwzYN0UJkn-qADTBw&s=19
  • OT tennis. Raducanu a set down in Transylvania.
  • Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    During COP26 perhaps?
    I'm in London between the 25th of November and the 28th of November, I would greatly appreciate if Brenda can delay things until after that. I have non refundable tickets and hotel rooms and don't want to see them become unusable.
    I think the thing we all need to know is has Mike got any holidays booked?
    He hasn't informed me and normally he tells me a couple of months in advance.
  • French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.

    https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1454110348005490693

    Bitterness unrestrained
  • Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened
  • Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
    If you buy shares in Interflora in that hour, is it insider trading?
    I'm like Caesar's wife.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    TimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    TimT said:

    It seems that Facebook could have done a bit more research before picking the name Meta:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-59090067

    I always forget how close to Arabic Hebrew is. Maut is death in Arabic.

    Meta is a trendy new word/concept that will date quickly.
    Metaverse

    In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

    The Metaverse was a communal VR environment started by by hackers, but largely owned by corporate interests

    Zuckerberg is probably L. Bob Rife.

    I doubt he will listen to Reason.
    Zuckerberg wishes he was L Bob Rife.
    If he tries to buy an old aircraft carrier, I am going to buy some rebar. And a Rat Thing. And a motorcycle with a sidecar......
    It's what's in the sidecar and how it's triggered that counts.
    If he's after a supercarrier, he'd better be quick and get one of the current two being decommissioned.

    Next one due in the USN is the Nimitz I think, and all the ones from here are nucleonic.

    Which is a bit tough to remove 50 years of radioactivity from.
  • Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    During COP26 perhaps?
    I'm in London between the 25th of November and the 28th of November, I would greatly appreciate if Brenda can delay things until after that. I have non refundable tickets and hotel rooms and don't want to see them become unusable.
    I think the thing we all need to know is has Mike got any holidays booked?
    He hasn't informed me and normally he tells me a couple of months in advance.
    Then relax, HM should be safe until you get that notification.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened

    David makes the point I was going to raise.

    Going by this schedule, HM is due to return to her normal duties with the Remembrance Day service.

    That's an unmovable commitment unless she really is very unwell.


    If she misses that...
  • Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
    If you buy shares in Interflora in that hour, is it insider trading?
    I'm like Caesar's wife.
    You self-harm?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    JBriskin3 said:

    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened

    David makes the point I was going to raise.

    Going by this schedule, HM is due to return to her normal duties with the Remembrance Day service.

    That's an unmovable commitment unless she really is very unwell.


    If she misses that...
    Doesn't she watch from a third floor window these days?

    I think it's pretty obvious what the issue is. Not sure why they won't just say it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Yes. Doctors haven't seriously prescribed "rest" since they started working out how to actually cure stuff, two centuries back
    I was told to rest after a bout of pneumonia: should I have been more worried?
    You lucky bastard.

    Unless this was only a day or 2 ago, in which case nice knowing you.

  • Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
    If you buy shares in Interflora in that hour, is it insider trading?
    I'm like Caesar's wife.
    You self-harm?
    Well I've spent a lot of time with men in drag.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Yes. Doctors haven't seriously prescribed "rest" since they started working out how to actually cure stuff, two centuries back
    I was told to rest after a bout of pneumonia: should I have been more worried?
    You lucky bastard.

    Unless this was only a day or 2 ago, in which case nice knowing you.

    Two years ago: I was off school for about a month.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Will the Labour membership vote for a woman? Every single woman who has stood for a membership vote for leader, has been beaten by every man in the contest.

    Finally an admission from the right that status quo/traditional selection processes dont automatically pick the best person for the job. Hope that will be remembered for the next positive discrimination discussions, the Labour Party is a great example to use.
    If the prior processes are not picking the right person for the job then the solution is to tackle the discrimination so that going forwards the best person is chosen.

    "Positive discrimination" is still discrimination, it doesn't do that.
    Yes of course, if you could magically get rid of all the discriminatory biases and processes in the real world that would be fantastic. Also magical, it ain't gonna happen. Human brains are built on using bias and pattern recognition very heavily, more than we use rationality.
    No need for magic, just tackling the real issues.

    "Positive discrimination" is no better at finding the right person for the job, if you're still discriminating against the people you were discriminating against then the 'right person' still suffers because they're being discriminated against. Promoting someone else from the same group because "they all look the same" to you isn't a fix.
    What a random non sequitur. All woman and all men do not look the same time to me.
    Shh. You’re interrupting my lunch setting me worrying about what a non-random non sequitur would look like.
    On reflection, ISTM that this who be somebody who, whatever you had said, started talking about carrots. Definitely not random. But you wouldn’t know that, the first time.
  • Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
    If you buy shares in Interflora in that hour, is it insider trading?
    I'm like Caesar's wife.
    You self-harm?
    Well I've spent a lot of time with men in drag.
    I didn’t think you did much trial work.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?

    I don't understand how a Regency would arise. Do you know something we don't about Carrie's health?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    The Afghans are looking as if they can win this match. Pakistan need 38 from the last four overs.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Tony Connelly
    @tconnellyRTE
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: The European Commission has told member states that the role of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in the Northern Ireland Protocol is not up for discussion.

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1454098540301541377?s=20

    Looks like the end of the protocol unless common sense is applied by both sides and urgently
    Triggering Article 16 does not mean the end of the Protocol at all. It means that either side can take action they deem necessary to prevent societal, economic or environmental difficulties. Indeed even if it is triggered nothing changes for a month and during that time both sides are supposed to meet to resolve the issues. Only if they fail is any action actually taken. And that cannot reasonably be the suspension of the whole Protocol. UK or EU actions are strictly limited under the treaty to what is necessary to prevent the disruption.

    So given that the involvement of the ECJ is extremely unlikely to cause immediate disruption on any of those 3 grounds I think it would be difficult to justify triggering the article on that basis. It would require the UK to do something which the ECJ rules to be in breech and then for that to cause disruption. A theoretical oversight does not seem to meet the necessary criteria.
  • Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
    If you buy shares in Interflora in that hour, is it insider trading?
    I'm like Caesar's wife.
    You self-harm?
    Well I've spent a lot of time with men in drag.
    I didn’t think you did much trial work.
    Only as a witness.

    However in my student days I spent a lot of time in gay bars and a lot of long lasting friendships were begat in those bars and clubs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,105
    edited October 2021
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. kinabalu, apologies, I missed your reply before.

    I'm not in favour of limiting recruitment by sex. Because of the particular nature of primary school teachers (often providing parental figures for those either lacking one or both parents or as a better version if said parents are rather bad examples) and the heavily slanted sex composition of schoolteachers I would like to see a recruitment drive for male teachers to increase the numbers. I would not advocate either all-male shortlists or some sort of quota, however.

    Well that would be positive discrimination - and I think I'd agree with it too. So, ok, you bridle at "quotas" and the like, but you can get behind positive discrimination where you see a real problem. Therefore it's a matter of where you see these real problems. Maybe that's restricted to 'too few men in primary teaching' but I'd be surprised if this were the case. I mean, there's so many high status arenas where women and/or certain minorities and/or working class people are underrepresented. There really is no doubt about that. It's simply a matter of do we wish to address it and if so how. My suspicion is that the answers are (i) not really and (ii) n/a. I think we're oddly attached to privilege in this country. We quite like it, including many of those who don't have it. We find it a comfortable notion.
    We are attached to privilege but not just in this country.

    When we gain a coveted position, most of us take the view that "God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it."
    It's also human nature to think we deserve it. This, imo, is one of the major handicaps the left in politics faces. That the biggest single determinant in life outcome is birth circumstances, this is true but a hard sell. It's not romantic. It's not nice to think about. And furthermore for most individual successes, the person owes a massive amount to luck and to other things/people, as opposed to their own 'merit'. Eg the bank trader using the firm's settlement and accounting processes, IT, balance sheet etc will nevertheless think HE has made the money. It's total bollox. But it's a necessary mental piece of falsethink for self esteem and justification. You see this all the time. The truth, the cold collectivist deterministic truth, is not palatable, therefore people reject it, protect the status quo, vote Conservative. This is why Labour don't win many elections - and why when they do they need to make it count.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    JBriskin3 said:

    Tony Connelly
    @tconnellyRTE
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: The European Commission has told member states that the role of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in the Northern Ireland Protocol is not up for discussion.

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1454098540301541377?s=20

    Looks like the end of the protocol unless common sense is applied by both sides and urgently
    Triggering Article 16 does not mean the end of the Protocol at all. It means that either side can take action they deem necessary to prevent societal, economic or environmental difficulties. Indeed even if it is triggered nothing changes for a month and during that time both sides are supposed to meet to resolve the issues. Only if they fail is any action actually taken. And that cannot reasonably be the suspension of the whole Protocol. UK or EU actions are strictly limited under the treaty to what is necessary to prevent the disruption.

    So given that the involvement of the ECJ is extremely unlikely to cause immediate disruption on any of those 3 grounds I think it would be difficult to justify triggering the article on that basis. It would require the UK to do something which the ECJ rules to be in breech and then for that to cause disruption. A theoretical oversight does not seem to meet the necessary criteria.
    I tend to think that the debate about the ECJ is a bit of a red herring.

    Unless I missed something the role is quite limited.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837

    Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?

    Prince Andrew is one of the counsellors of state (as is Prince Harry) but I don't think that's likely to become relevant. AIUI they aren't involved in the process of declaring the incapacity of the monarch in any case. That's up to a separate list of figures currently including Dominic Raab and Lindsay Hoyle.

    I am working on the assumption here that the most likely grounds for a regency is actually the Queen declaring her own wish to retire from public life on the grounds of infirmity, clearing the way for Prince Charles to be appointed in accordance with the relevant legislation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    IshmaelZ said:

    Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?

    I don't understand how a Regency would arise. Do you know something we don't about Carrie's health?
    More to the point, can we think of any such that have turned out well?
  • kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. kinabalu, apologies, I missed your reply before.

    I'm not in favour of limiting recruitment by sex. Because of the particular nature of primary school teachers (often providing parental figures for those either lacking one or both parents or as a better version if said parents are rather bad examples) and the heavily slanted sex composition of schoolteachers I would like to see a recruitment drive for male teachers to increase the numbers. I would not advocate either all-male shortlists or some sort of quota, however.

    Well that would be positive discrimination - and I think I'd agree with it too. So, ok, you bridle at "quotas" and the like, but you can get behind positive discrimination where you see a real problem. Therefore it's a matter of where you see these real problems. Maybe that's restricted to 'too few men in primary teaching' but I'd be surprised if this were the case. I mean, there's so many high status arenas where women and/or certain minorities and/or working class people are underrepresented. There really is no doubt about that. It's simply a matter of do we wish to address it and if so how. My suspicion is that the answers are (i) not really and (ii) n/a. I think we're oddly attached to privilege in this country. We quite like it, including many of those who don't have it. We find it a comfortable notion.
    We are attached to privilege but not just in this country.

    When we gain a coveted position, most of us take the view that "God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it."
    It's also human nature to think we deserve it. This, imo, is one of the major handicaps the left in politics faces. That the biggest single determinant in life outcome is birth circumstances, this is true but a hard sell. It's not romantic. It's not nice to think about. And furthermore for most individual successes, the person owes a massive amount to luck and to other things/people, as opposed to their own 'merit'. Eg the bank trader using the firm's settlement and accounting processes, IT, balance sheet etc will nevertheless think HE has made the money. It's total bollox. But it's a necessary mental piece of falsethink for self esteem and justification. You see this all the time. The truth, the cold collectivist deterministic truth, is not palatable, therefore people reject it, protect the status quo, vote Conservative. This is why Labour don't win many elections - and why when they do they need to make it count.
    You also run up against one of the most powerful instincts of all: the need to make sure that your offspring succeed though whatever help you can give them. Any policy that seems to reduce the ability of people to help their children do better is not going to go down well, which is why IHT is so unpopular.
  • IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?

    I don't understand how a Regency would arise. Do you know something we don't about Carrie's health?
    More to the point, can we think of any such that have turned out well?
    Does that include architectural styles?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    tlg86 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened

    David makes the point I was going to raise.

    Going by this schedule, HM is due to return to her normal duties with the Remembrance Day service.

    That's an unmovable commitment unless she really is very unwell.


    If she misses that...
    Doesn't she watch from a third floor window these days?

    I think it's pretty obvious what the issue is. Not sure why they won't just say it.
    What is the issue?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    tlg86 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened

    David makes the point I was going to raise.

    Going by this schedule, HM is due to return to her normal duties with the Remembrance Day service.

    That's an unmovable commitment unless she really is very unwell.


    If she misses that...
    Doesn't she watch from a third floor window these days?

    I think it's pretty obvious what the issue is. Not sure why they won't just say it.
    What is the issue?
    COVID.
  • IanB2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?

    I don't understand how a Regency would arise. Do you know something we don't about Carrie's health?
    More to the point, can we think of any such that have turned out well?
    Surely one of the Scottish Regencies turned out well?

    I remember they had like a gazillion Regents.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    IshmaelZ said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    Yes. Doctors haven't seriously prescribed "rest" since they started working out how to actually cure stuff, two centuries back
    I would recommend a stiff brandy stat, and PRN.

    Prescribe a drug and London Bridge falls, you get the blame, but everyone knows brandy never killed anyone...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    tlg86 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened

    David makes the point I was going to raise.

    Going by this schedule, HM is due to return to her normal duties with the Remembrance Day service.

    That's an unmovable commitment unless she really is very unwell.


    If she misses that...
    Doesn't she watch from a third floor window these days?

    I think it's pretty obvious what the issue is. Not sure why they won't just say it.
    Not to me it isn't. Explain?

    Bear in mind how medicine minimises to the patient: not necessarily a tumour, not necessarily malign, not necessarily moved to the lymph glands, not necessarily moved beyond the lymph glands ... etc. That's what HM herself is being told at the moment; it won't be the case that the palace has been given worse news than it is passing on.
  • Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Queen advised to rest for at least the next fortnight by the doctors.

    London Bridge is going to fall down soon isn't it?

    How soon after do you expect to be told IRL?
    Well, as Mike can confirm, I was told about an hour before the world (and indeed before the Queen was) that David Cameron (pbuh) was going to resign as Prime Minister.

    So I'm hopeful I'll be told before Charles will be.
    If you buy shares in Interflora in that hour, is it insider trading?
    I'm like Caesar's wife.
    "You can read minds??"
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Jersey Fisheries Association chap on R4 - pointing out that some of the boats claiming to have been fishing in Jersey waters in the past would have been doing so illegally as they didn’t hold licences then. So Jersey is asking the French “do you WANT us to prosecute them for historic illegal fishing?”.

    Answer came there none…
  • OT tennis. Raducanu a set down in Transylvania.

    Emma Raducanu has lost her quarter-final match to Marta Kostyuk.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Will the Labour membership vote for a woman? Every single woman who has stood for a membership vote for leader, has been beaten by every man in the contest.

    Finally an admission from the right that status quo/traditional selection processes dont automatically pick the best person for the job. Hope that will be remembered for the next positive discrimination discussions, the Labour Party is a great example to use.
    If the prior processes are not picking the right person for the job then the solution is to tackle the discrimination so that going forwards the best person is chosen.

    "Positive discrimination" is still discrimination, it doesn't do that.
    Yes of course, if you could magically get rid of all the discriminatory biases and processes in the real world that would be fantastic. Also magical, it ain't gonna happen. Human brains are built on using bias and pattern recognition very heavily, more than we use rationality.
    No need for magic, just tackling the real issues.

    "Positive discrimination" is no better at finding the right person for the job, if you're still discriminating against the people you were discriminating against then the 'right person' still suffers because they're being discriminated against. Promoting someone else from the same group because "they all look the same" to you isn't a fix.
    What a random non sequitur. All woman and all men do not look the same time to me.
    Shh. You’re interrupting my lunch setting me worrying about what a non-random non sequitur would look like.
    On reflection, ISTM that this who be somebody who, whatever you had said, started talking about carrots. Definitely not random. But you wouldn’t know that, the first time.
    So a random non-sequitur really only exists in the plural.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Since we're hot on the Sci-fi metaphors at the moment-

    Has Herdson Sublimed?

    David Herdson
    @DavidHerdson
    ·
    3m
    I don't think I'm going all conspiracy theory here to suggest that we're not being given the whole picture.

    You don't *extend* an advised period of rest by this much unless the problem it's designed to deal with has worsened

    David makes the point I was going to raise.

    Going by this schedule, HM is due to return to her normal duties with the Remembrance Day service.

    That's an unmovable commitment unless she really is very unwell.


    If she misses that...
    Doesn't she watch from a third floor window these days?

    I think it's pretty obvious what the issue is. Not sure why they won't just say it.
    What is the issue?
    COVID.
    Given the likely testing regime around HMQ, a non-COVID winter grot seems more likely.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??
  • OT tennis. Raducanu a set down in Transylvania.

    Emma Raducanu has lost her quarter-final match to Marta Kostyuk.
    UVAVU!
  • JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    It’s like, we might live in a random universe, but if it’s the only one, how will we ever know?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    JBriskin3 said:

    Tony Connelly
    @tconnellyRTE
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: The European Commission has told member states that the role of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in the Northern Ireland Protocol is not up for discussion.

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1454098540301541377?s=20

    Probably true for them, but that's the problem with saying earlier things were red lines and then it turned out they were not, it makes the other side believe they are not red lines.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,604
    Biden meets Macron:

    @ABC
    "What happened was, to use an English phrase, what we did was clumsy," Pres. Biden says during meeting with French Pres. Macron about the recent U.S. snub of France for nuclear submarine technology in favor of Australia.

    "France is an extremely, extremely valued partner."


    https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1454135251056447491
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes, I wouldn't recognise the Pope as God's representative, but Sleepy Joe is a Catholic not a Nonconformist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    Prince Andrew is going to be part of the Regency Council isn't he?

    Time to dust this one off

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/04/21/the-palace-is-laying-the-groundwork-for-a-regency/
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    It’s like, we might live in a random universe, but if it’s the only one, how will we ever know?

    You're going to have terrible munchies in an hour or two.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174

    OT tennis. Raducanu a set down in Transylvania.

    Emma Raducanu has lost her quarter-final match to Marta Kostyuk.
    That's a bit of a thumping from a player knocked out in R1 of the US Open (albeit by the woman that Raducanu beat in the semis).
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Unbelievable batting by Asif Ali they have a finisher par excellence
  • Plan B now. In a few weeks I think we will regret not taking action now.

    Have a coffee, you seem to be drunk and hysterical.
    No just concerned about a virus that kills people and has put one my friends in hospital.
    If that's true I hope your friend gets better soon.

    But that's not an excuse for "Plan B" or restrictions.

    People getting sick isn't a reason to lock the country down, its the reason we have hospitals in the first place.
    If that’s true? Are you calling me a liar?
  • Pakistan needed 24 from 12 balls.

    Did it in six balls.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    DavidL said:

    Unbelievable batting by Asif Ali they have a finisher par excellence

    6-0-6-0-6-6 - that’s how you finish off a close match!
  • The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021
    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    He's been a damn sight nicer than how many have historically treated the Pope even whilst Catholic.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    Pakistan needed 24 from 12 balls.

    Did it in six balls.

    Pakistan are looking the team to beat.

    Classic T20. Asif Ali MOTM for 7 balls!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    DavidL said:

    Unbelievable batting by Asif Ali they have a finisher par excellence

    Afghanistan made a good fight of it, it's nice to see how the sport has come on for that country. But will they be seen again at future tournaments?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,626
    edited October 2021
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Unbelievable batting by Asif Ali they have a finisher par excellence

    6-0-6-0-6-6 - that’s how you finish off a close match!
    Because I've repressed the 2016 T20 final it kinda reminded me of the 1990 England v India test at Lord's.

    India were 430/9 needing 24 to avoid the follow on.

    Kapil Dev then hit Eddie Hemmings for four consecutives sixes.

    Narenda Hirawani was out next ball.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.

    https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1454110348005490693

    A punishment beating?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    I genuinely thought the Afghans were going to win that, just shows how much a match can flip on a single over. Was anyone watching Betfair as that unfolded?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    French PM Jean Castex has sent a letter to Ursula von der Leyen, the Commission’s president, to notify her of Paris’ planned reprisals against the UK in the fish war. Castex asks for support because the EU needs to show ‘leaving the Union is more damaging than remaining in it’.

    https://twitter.com/Barnes_Joe/status/1454110348005490693

    Jean, that's what you say in the phone call, not the official letter. Do people just not even care about claiming the moral high ground anymore? That's actually a positive development.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    They will, at the end of April 2022.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Ah, you mean superstitions.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    They might when their deductions start in April.
  • DavidL said:

    Pakistan needed 24 from 12 balls.

    Did it in six balls.

    Pakistan are looking the team to beat.

    Classic T20. Asif Ali MOTM for 7 balls!!
    My Indian heritage friend is convinced Pakistan are going to win.

    The ruthless enforcement of the Tebbit test in India has guaranteed it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited October 2021
    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    I think he was saying that all budgets go through a news cycle and a few weeks down the line the cycle has passed for most people. Significance or lack thereof in a budget does not get shown by the public reaction I think.
  • stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    Go on mate! Score!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Biden met Blair?
    Blair is also a Catholic nowadays for the record.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Biden met Blair?
    Blair is also a Catholic nowadays for the record.
    Does that count?
  • tlg86 said:

    OT tennis. Raducanu a set down in Transylvania.

    Emma Raducanu has lost her quarter-final match to Marta Kostyuk.
    That's a bit of a thumping from a player knocked out in R1 of the US Open (albeit by the woman that Raducanu beat in the semis).
    Yes. ER looked knackered. Maybe she needs to go back to the coach shop and buy one.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Regency.
    Paul Dacre is hossing for a gig.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    IanB2 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Palace Intrigue getting a lot of PB Airspace tonight; When we all know that Prince Charles will be King Something Else in a few years.

    I'm more intrigued by Biden today.

    If I was meeting God's representative on earth - I think a kneel more than a simple handshake might be more appropriate??

    What about all the other faiths???
    Yes - I wasn't being clear enough. Biden seems to think a simple hand shake is required when he meets who he thinks is God's representative on earth.
    Biden met Blair?
    Blair is also a Catholic nowadays for the record.
    Does that count?
    Are you suggesting that Catholisism is inherited?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    To be honest, an all woman shortlist might be the only way Labour elects a female leader. And even then I'm not convinced that they wouldn't mess it up!

    Would physically-male-candidates-who-self-identify-as-women* be allowed to stand

    * genuine question - am so confused by the right words now… there must be a snappier way of describing someone like that?
    Transwomen.

    Sorry to hear about the confusion over words. I'm sure it's nothing. Did you get your 8 hours last night?
    I start from the position of not wishing to inadvertently cause offence. As the topic is so fast moving and controversial and I don’t really care enough to follow it in detail I didn’t want to make a mistake
    Yes, sorry, my snark wasn't apt there. Thought you were pushing the old "oh lord, what DO you call these types these days?" general reactionary trope - ho ho and yawn yawn - but I now sense you weren't. I'm a bit 'off' today, not sure why. Probably because I've been staying in the Cotswolds. That can mess with your head a bit.
    On the reactionary trope thing, the lobby itself shifted to LGBTQ+ quite some time ago.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,105
    edited October 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mr. kinabalu, apologies, I missed your reply before.

    I'm not in favour of limiting recruitment by sex. Because of the particular nature of primary school teachers (often providing parental figures for those either lacking one or both parents or as a better version if said parents are rather bad examples) and the heavily slanted sex composition of schoolteachers I would like to see a recruitment drive for male teachers to increase the numbers. I would not advocate either all-male shortlists or some sort of quota, however.

    Well that would be positive discrimination - and I think I'd agree with it too. So, ok, you bridle at "quotas" and the like, but you can get behind positive discrimination where you see a real problem. Therefore it's a matter of where you see these real problems. Maybe that's restricted to 'too few men in primary teaching' but I'd be surprised if this were the case. I mean, there's so many high status arenas where women and/or certain minorities and/or working class people are underrepresented. There really is no doubt about that. It's simply a matter of do we wish to address it and if so how. My suspicion is that the answers are (i) not really and (ii) n/a. I think we're oddly attached to privilege in this country. We quite like it, including many of those who don't have it. We find it a comfortable notion.
    We are attached to privilege but not just in this country.

    When we gain a coveted position, most of us take the view that "God has given us the Papacy, let us enjoy it."
    It's also human nature to think we deserve it. This, imo, is one of the major handicaps the left in politics faces. That the biggest single determinant in life outcome is birth circumstances, this is true but a hard sell. It's not romantic. It's not nice to think about. And furthermore for most individual successes, the person owes a massive amount to luck and to other things/people, as opposed to their own 'merit'. Eg the bank trader using the firm's settlement and accounting processes, IT, balance sheet etc will nevertheless think HE has made the money. It's total bollox. But it's a necessary mental piece of falsethink for self esteem and justification. You see this all the time. The truth, the cold collectivist deterministic truth, is not palatable, therefore people reject it, protect the status quo, vote Conservative. This is why Labour don't win many elections - and why when they do they need to make it count.
    You also run up against one of the most powerful instincts of all: the need to make sure that your offspring succeed though whatever help you can give them. Any policy that seems to reduce the ability of people to help their children do better is not going to go down well, which is why IHT is so unpopular.
    Yep, very good point, that's key to the whole 'inequality' debate and a big obstacle to doing anything serious about reducing it. Because the hard fact is, you can't remove barriers in the way of the disadvantaged without making the passage through life of the advantaged more onerous. All is relative. The words "disadvantaged" and "advantaged" have no meaning otherwise. They mean "compared to". They have to mean that. I'd also throw something else into the pot - in addition to the "giving my children the best possible start in life" business which you highlight - and that's the tendency of 'ordinary' people, rather than resenting or disliking privilege, to think, "Good on them, perhaps one day that can be me, or my kids." Grrr.
  • RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Who does that help though? Conservatives are ahead but falling.

    The Budget wasn't an omnishambles, but chunky tax rises and (likely) unchunky real pay rises are still in the pipeline.

    Going on the basis that more people notice the number of pounds in their pocket than follow the daily carnival, that doesn't augur well for the government.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:


    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.

    I think he was saying that all budgets go through a news cycle and a few weeks down the line the cycle has passed for most people. Significance or lack thereof in a budget does not get shown by the public reaction I think.
    Yes - I'm well aware and I enjoy yanking @RobD's chain.

    Assuming tomorrow night's polls show an increase in the Conservative lead, we will no doubt hear roars of approval from the usual suspects so as I say the Budget will have done its job and given the Conservatives a lift as they head into what might be an awkward winter.

    As to whether it has any serious economic impact, debatable at best.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,626
    edited October 2021
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
  • RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    It will be climate change and Christmas and HMQ maybe (but genuinely hope not)

    Sounds as if someone is on a lone mission to ramp up his hope of winning a bet with somebody
  • FWIW I've mentioned that a friend of mine works for a Job Centre Plus (one that trialled the rollout of UC)

    She's said 95% of their queries relate to the UC uplift cut as people are suffering from and are about to suffer financial hardship.

    So much so that the DWP ministers have added a 'The £20 uplift' option on the journal entry option.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    stodge said:

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    Are you saying the whole point of the Budget was just to achieve a temporary increase in the Conservative Party's poll rating?

    Silly me - I thought it was meant to be a significant speech outlining the economic direction of the country.
    No, just that for the vast majority of people it will not be on their radar in several weeks. Let’s see if it’s still headline news at the start of December.
    Doesn’t the reduced UC taper come in by 1st December? An awful lot of people will see more cash in their pay packets before Christmas, thanks to Santa Sunak.
    Not compared to their September/October incomes.
    The cut in UC took effect in October so it will go up compared to their November income.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited October 2021

    RobD said:

    The last budget was popular on day one.

    YouGov is the start. In a few weeks it will be unpopular and Tories will pretend they never agreed with it

    In a few weeks no one will be talking about it.
    It will be climate change and Christmas and HMQ maybe (but genuinely hope not)

    Sounds as if someone is on a lone mission to ramp up his hope of winning a bet with somebody
    The news will doubtless be full of the clown assuring everybody that we can rely upon him to save Christmas?
This discussion has been closed.