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What will Rishi’s PM chances look like after today’s budget? – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,813
    edited October 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    I headed to Tesco for lunch and paid via self serve, so it's the first time I've really noticed - when did the 16 yr old minimum age come in for energy drinks ?

    Shop driven, not law. Possibly concerns about being sued if misused by young kids. Govt have talked about a ban, but afaik not introduced such legislation.
    A kid at my daughters school needed medical attention after drinking too many of some hyper-caffeinated energy drink.

    Some of them have terrifying amounts of caffeine in them.
    once did a Red Bull Adventure Orienteering event at Sherwood Forest which was awesome (basically a game of hide and seek in a big forest with some archery and climbing at various points) - It was even more awesome as it was free red bull all day - before , during and after the event - felt like a zombie for hours afterwards
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,180
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    Better than Labour's bloody "escalator" - that was horrendous in the early thousands.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Open bets midpoint -£95. 55 mentions of billion ?

    It trips off the tongue to billionaire Rishi
    Confirmed
    4 "billion" and 51 "Bn" in the budget speech text as published.
    A billion here, a billion there, and pulpstar's off to the poor house.
    Zero mentions of "climate" in the published text! I should've sold it for more...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392
  • Unlike various political gurus who infamously claim to be able to play 4D chess, Rachel Reeves provably can play the game, having won the UK Under-14s Ladies Championship in her youth.


    The Queen's Gambit!
    very good although ironically Beth Harmen in the drama series actually played the Sicilian opening not the Queens Gambit in most of the games
    That's excellent knowledge. I like a game of chess but am very poor at it and therefore can only play against fellow novices. I read that the actual gameplay in the series is superb – and brings a whole new level to the drama for those that are serious students of the game?
    At least you were not put in Bill Gates position to have to play live on TV the world chess champion Magness Carlson !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFi48q7X3ac

    From 14.00 in he gets talked into it by the host!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    Is Kate's Politics Degree Arts or Sciences?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,229
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    I was referring to the journalist claiming to be baffled by Science - that tends to be code for "the bad person used numbers and things I don't want to know about"
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Taz said:

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
    Indeed. I have just been looking her up. She's sitting on only a small majority in Sunderland South though, but she otherwise looks to have the credentials for success.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    It's a shame some of her tweets have seemed opportunistic over the last few months. I wasn't all that keen on her until she spoke just now and I was pretty impressed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,180
    61 "tax"
    55 "billion"
    45 "madam deputy speaker"


    0 "hard working families"
    0 "climate"
    0 "whatever it takes"
    0 "brexit"
    0 "hard choices"
    0 "up and down the countries"
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    MattW said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    Is Kate's Politics Degree Arts or Sciences?
    I don't know degree Kate McCann has but I'm willing to assume that she does have one.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited October 2021
    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    I was referring to the journalist claiming to be baffled by Science - that tends to be code for "the bad person used numbers and things I don't want to know about"
    Fair enough - I assume Rishi's calculator does add 2+2 to equal 4 but he's probably utilised some Civil Service prepared graphs as well.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Pulpstar said:

    61 "tax"
    55 "billion"
    45 "madam deputy speaker"


    0 "hard working families"
    0 "climate"
    0 "whatever it takes"
    0 "brexit"
    0 "hard choices"
    0 "up and down the countries"

    Didn't even mention Brexit. LOL. Focused on the important stuff then.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    But, but, she's a girl.
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    @MaxPB will know best but my understanding is its an underestimate not an overestimate.

    Giving him room to play next year when growth comes in above expectations. Clever!
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    RE: Kate McCann

    She did not use the phrase "baffled by science" - that was my interpretation of what she was saying.
  • DavidL said:

    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392

    Starting without a queen would be more interesting than 30 seconds time limit.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    edited October 2021
    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.

    Yes, she focused on the main weaknesses of the government’s big picture (little to help ordinary people with cost of living, and lumping the burden disproportionately on those of working age), and even when her references to Brexit or to acknowledgements of the good bits got Tory cheers, there was a sting in the tail. Given the time she had to prepare, a good performance.
  • DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    61 "tax"
    55 "billion"
    45 "madam deputy speaker"


    0 "hard working families"
    0 "climate"
    0 "whatever it takes"
    0 "brexit"
    0 "hard choices"
    0 "up and down the countries"

    Didn't even mention Brexit. LOL. Focused on the important stuff then.
    Its one of those issues of being careful about the language.

    He repeatedly mentioned "we can only do this because we have left the European Union" but that isn't the word "Brexit" so doesn't count.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,783
    Not paid huge amounts of attention, but I think Labour would do better, should Starmer step down, with Rachel Reeves than Angela 'Scum' Rayner.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,180
    edited October 2021
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    61 "tax"
    55 "billion"
    45 "madam deputy speaker"


    0 "hard working families"
    0 "climate"
    0 "whatever it takes"
    0 "brexit"
    0 "hard choices"
    0 "up and down the countries"

    Didn't even mention Brexit. LOL. Focused on the important stuff then.
    7 mentions of Covid.

    Things people are actually worried about - Fuel prices, childcare, universal credit, tax

    Things the media focusses on far more the average person - Covid, Brexit, climate change.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,229
    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    I was referring to the journalist claiming to be baffled by Science - that tends to be code for "the bad person used numbers and things I don't want to know about"
    Fair enough - I assume Rishi's calculator does add 2+2 to equal 4 but he's probably utilised some Civil Service prepared graphs as well.
    What I would really enjoy is a demolition job such as DK Brown did after the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.

    He demolished a journalist and a strangely ignorant maths professor who'd read a book on naval architecture for 1 minute.

    I still recall the plaintiff cries from the interviewer that it was a bit "complex"...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    If you don’t already have money on her as next LL (I do), now is a good time to consider it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Unlike various political gurus who infamously claim to be able to play 4D chess, Rachel Reeves provably can play the game, having won the UK Under-14s Ladies Championship in her youth.


    The Queen's Gambit!
    very good although ironically Beth Harmen in the drama series actually played the Sicilian opening not the Queens Gambit in most of the games
    That's excellent knowledge. I like a game of chess but am very poor at it and therefore can only play against fellow novices. I read that the actual gameplay in the series is superb – and brings a whole new level to the drama for those that are serious students of the game?
    At least you were not put in Bill Gates position to have to play live on TV the world chess champion Magness Carlson !

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFi48q7X3ac

    From 14.00 in he gets talked into it by the host!
    LOL! That's excellent.
  • Taz said:

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
    Indeed. I have just been looking her up. She's sitting on only a small majority in Sunderland South though, but she otherwise looks to have the credentials for success.
    She looks a bit like Rachael :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Taz said:

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
    Indeed. I have just been looking her up. She's sitting on only a small majority in Sunderland South though, but she otherwise looks to have the credentials for success.
    If the Tory vote on the North rises further, it doesn’t really matter who the leader is.
  • MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
    How has it "cost" anything? Taxes not going up isn't a cost, we pay a fortune on fuel duty. Fuel duty is a cost of £30bn a year, the "freeze" isn't a cost of anything, its just a tax that's not there. Not every penny of life belongs in tax.

    That's up their with the logic that giving a benefit that can only be spent on rent and can't be spent on a mortgage (even if that's cheaper and lower cost) isn't a benefit to aid landlords.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,897

    Fenman said:

    A wonderful Labour budget from the Tories

    Much to the annoyance of @HYUFD I have long since said that Boris and HMG have moved left and to use another one of his quotes and has put their tanks on labour's lawn
    Yet still he did not raise income tax and did not raise inheritance tax and did not impose a wealth tax.

    This government may be economically left of Cameron and May and even Blair's governments but it is still economically right of Brown's government and Starmer.

    Culturally and on Brexit it is right of all of them
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    But, but, she's a girl.
    Well yes, and as I have said before, this is a distinct disadvantage with the macho trade unions. Would be interesting to crunch the numbers of the selectorate to see if Reeves would be a strong runner in any leadership election.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
    Given that the government will, in the not too distant future, have to learn to live without it, I think it's only right that they don't milk it for any more than they already do.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Not paid huge amounts of attention, but I think Labour would do better, should Starmer step down, with Rachel Reeves than Angela 'Scum' Rayner.

    Rayner’s comment - which got big cheers whenever she appeared at Labour conference - is a good example of how a throwaway comment will define her thereafter. You can probably lay her as next LL on the back of that alone.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    I was referring to the journalist claiming to be baffled by Science - that tends to be code for "the bad person used numbers and things I don't want to know about"
    Fair enough - I assume Rishi's calculator does add 2+2 to equal 4 but he's probably utilised some Civil Service prepared graphs as well.
    What I would really enjoy is a demolition job such as DK Brown did after the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.

    He demolished a journalist and a strangely ignorant maths professor who'd read a book on naval architecture for 1 minute.

    I still recall the plaintiff cries from the interviewer that it was a bit "complex"...
    Oh? What was his view vs the maths prof? Presumably about the importance of free water sloshing around the car hold?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
    Indeed. I have just been looking her up. She's sitting on only a small majority in Sunderland South though, but she otherwise looks to have the credentials for success.
    If the Tory vote on the North rises further, it doesn’t really matter who the leader is.
    Yes, that's true.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    Load of crap, so the trailed pre election tax cuts have already been pissed up the wall on spending. Whack up taxes when the OBR given bullshit low forecasts, then whack up spending when they correct them, and never actually admit you just made a free choice to whack them both up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    But, but, she's a girl.
    Well yes, and as I have said before, this is a distinct disadvantage with the macho trade unions. Would be interesting to crunch the numbers of the selectorate to see if Reeves would be a strong runner in any leadership election.
    There’ll come a time when the dynamic is such that the electorate feels compelled to choose a woman. Their task is to avoid being forced toward picking a dud, as were the LibDems.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Interesting analysis on BBC Radio4 3 pm News. Rebuttal of the Budget was by...Andrew Bowie, Deputy Chair of the Conservative Party. He liked it!

    Arise Lord Davie!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
    How has it "cost" anything? Taxes not going up isn't a cost, we pay a fortune on fuel duty. Fuel duty is a cost of £30bn a year, the "freeze" isn't a cost of anything, its just a tax that's not there. Not every penny of life belongs in tax.

    That's up their with the logic that giving a benefit that can only be spent on rent and can't be spent on a mortgage (even if that's cheaper and lower cost) isn't a benefit to aid landlords.
    Lost revenue each year compared to the alternative...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    edited October 2021
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    If you don’t already have money on her as next LL (I do), now is a good time to consider it.
    Good tip – she is available at 17/1 which seems generous to me, unless the fact that she is firmly on the right of the party and is a woman is seen as hampering her chances with the unions?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Taz said:

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
    She knows that the price of monthly home heating bills, refilling your car and doing the Xmas shopping is going to be rather more in the news these next few months than the cost of a bottle of Prosecco or of a BA flight to Edinburgh.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    edited October 2021
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
    Given that the government will, in the not too distant future, have to learn to live without it, I think it's only right that they don't milk it for any more than they already do.
    It will be replaced. One of the things that Osborne got right starting in 2015 (ish?) when he started pivoting VED to a new basis imo.

    Spending benefits on things they were designed for seems reasonable.


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    If you don’t already have money on her as next LL (I do), now is a good time to consider it.
    Good tip – she is available at 17/1 which seems generous to me, unless that fact that she is firmly on the right of the party and is a woman is seen as hampering her chances with the unions?
    Even major unions get female leaders eventually.

    Dinosaurs must drag their feet along with the times.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,229
    edited October 2021
    Carnyx said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Kate McCann of Sky News admits Rishi baffled us with Science.

    You mean he used maths more complex than 2+2?
    If your being snippy with me here's my Budget Reaction:

    That 2021 6pc growth is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
    I was referring to the journalist claiming to be baffled by Science - that tends to be code for "the bad person used numbers and things I don't want to know about"
    Fair enough - I assume Rishi's calculator does add 2+2 to equal 4 but he's probably utilised some Civil Service prepared graphs as well.
    What I would really enjoy is a demolition job such as DK Brown did after the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster.

    He demolished a journalist and a strangely ignorant maths professor who'd read a book on naval architecture for 1 minute.

    I still recall the plaintiff cries from the interviewer that it was a bit "complex"...
    Oh? What was his view vs the maths prof? Presumably about the importance of free water sloshing around the car hold?
    The math prof had read one equation on stability, and claimed that 1mm of water would cause any RoRo ship to capsize. and had gone hot foot to the BBC....

    DK Brown gently pointed out that this was bollocks - informed by his having designed such ships and being taught the design principles by Baker* (the chap who was *the* landing ship designer in the RN, in WWII)

    EDIT: In addition Brown was a serious authority on ship stability. His books on the Royal Navy have massive chunks on the problems and successes in various classes of this.

    *Who designed the landing ships to be stable even when the vehicle deck was flooded. To prove this he trialled deliberately flooding the lead craft of various classes. At sea.... As Brown pointed out - a nice idea for civilian vessels as well...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,132
    Money Box Live just starting on R4 for half an hour, for anyone interested.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    👀 Rishi Sunak has raised tax by the highest amount in a single year for almost three decades, says OBR.

    Taking his March and October Budgets together, 2021 has seen the biggest tax hike the since tax increases announced after Black Wednesday in 1993.
    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1453363454203596800/photo/1
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    DavidL said:

    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392

    Starting without a queen would be more interesting than 30 seconds time limit.
    This is either incredibly subtle or a reply to a different post.
  • DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    61 "tax"
    55 "billion"
    45 "madam deputy speaker"


    0 "hard working families"
    0 "climate"
    0 "whatever it takes"
    0 "brexit"
    0 "hard choices"
    0 "up and down the countries"

    Didn't even mention Brexit. LOL. Focused on the important stuff then.
    He mentioned the benefits of having left the EU several times when referencing how he was diverging from their way of doing things but never actually used the word Brexit. Quite intentionally I suspect.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.


    You are (unintentionally) damning by faint praise there. To my mind, Rachel is now the heir apparent. Laura K has just asked Bridget Phillipson if Sir Keir might be a little bit worried about her boss...
    If you don’t already have money on her as next LL (I do), now is a good time to consider it.
    Good tip – she is available at 17/1 which seems generous to me, unless that fact that she is firmly on the right of the party and is a woman is seen as hampering her chances with the unions?
    Even major unions get female leaders eventually.

    Dinosaurs must drag their feet along with the times.
    Agreed, although I don't think it's the unions that are the main obstacle to a woman being elected leader of the Labour party. But they certainly don't help.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Bridget Phillipson on #skynews now next labour leader watchers.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    DavidL said:

    What we do seem to have seen is a budget that Ed Miliband might have been pretty proud of had things gone differently. A truly massive increase in public spending, some increases in taxes, notably for businesses through CT and ENI, and yet projected deficits which fall very rapidly as a share of GDP.

    I suspect that many on the right of the Tory party will be quietly appalled but they will be nowhere near as appalled as the pretty competent Labour shadow Treasury team. Boris and Rishi are running an extremely centrist, almost fractionally left of centre, government and it does not leave Labour with much room for offering a substantive alternative.

    Bit like what Blair & Brown did to the Tories.

    Setting himself fiscal tests - and presenting this as some sort of self-limiting virtue, when current data suggest they are already being comfortably met and are consequently of little real world consequence - is the sort of trickster politics that could easily unravel as financial journalists start to get their teeth into it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392

    Starting without a queen would be more interesting than 30 seconds time limit.
    This is either incredibly subtle or a reply to a different post.
    You’re not going to get so much honey, for a start.
  • MattW said:

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
    Given that the government will, in the not too distant future, have to learn to live without it, I think it's only right that they don't milk it for any more than they already do.
    It will be replaced. One of the things that Osborne got right starting in 2015 (ish?) when he started pivoting VED to a new basis imo.

    Spending benefits on things they were designed for seems reasonable.


    The question is what to replace it with. It shouldn't be another tax on drivers, drivers aren't a cash cow and the environmental excuse for the tax doesn't exist in a clean electric future.

    A tax on people who view the homes other people need to live in as a source of profit would be a better replacement than milking drivers.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392

    Starting without a queen would be more interesting than 30 seconds time limit.
    This is either incredibly subtle or a reply to a different post.
    I think I was responsible for starting the chess subplot to this thread.

    (Rachel Reeves is a former UK girls' champion at chess, thus I labelled her performance today, The Queen's Gambit)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,701

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Rachel Reeves was basically like John Barnes against Argentina. Came on without any real chance to change the result. But a good performance. People will be buying shares in her.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    Nowadays, almost all white wine as well.

    Better wine making + global warming -> stronger wines.

    He mentioned rose as becoming cheaper in his speech. Does he really think roses typically come in under 11%?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,988
    Rishi Sunak's budget will actually add to inflation causing higher prices for households for a couple of years, acc to OBR p68 - increased pressure from fiscal loosening and firms passing on employer NICs rise "outweighs downward pressure from freeze in fuel and alcohol duties"
    https://twitter.com/rowenamason/status/1453365706385498122
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Snap verdict: This was the anti-Osborne budget.

    There was so much in this budget that undid the work of George Osborne's budgets, that I found a lot to like, the centrepiece being the cut in the Universal Credit taper.

    As to how it's being paid for, worth remembering the freeze to thresholds, which means anticipated inflation of 4% results in a considerable tax increase.

    Lots I don't like too, of course, but special mention to the cut in alcohol duty for draught beer and cider - a change that I've suggested on here many times.

    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Raising fuel duty only extends the hole you need to fill, which grows every year from 2030 onwards (As no new ICE cars are sold). So I think it's a long term fool's errand to raise it now.
    Fuel Duty is a nightmare for Chancellors - it’s one of very few products where the price is very visible, it raises something like £30bn a year, but cars are getting more fuel-efficient and electric, so it’s going to reduce over the next few years. The government needs to find a way to deal with those reduced revenues.
    So the cost of the Fuel Duty Freeze has now reached around £14-15bn a year.

    Not cool.
    Given that the government will, in the not too distant future, have to learn to live without it, I think it's only right that they don't milk it for any more than they already do.
    The question of whether it should be increased is immaterial given that we know that it won't be increased, and that the repeated theatre of announcing the cancellation of a planned rise has long since become tedious nonsense.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited October 2021
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,701
    edited October 2021
    By chance I bought our xmas port bottle earlier this week, as part of general stock up early policy.

    Looks like I have saved at least a £1 if the retailers pass on the tax rise.

    I'm so old I remember when increasing the price of a gentleman's port was enough to finish any career at the Treasury.
  • Just heard Wes Streeting on R5 talking about the Budget. He was complaining about Amazon being given a massive tax break, and said the word Amazon about ten times.

    Somehow, he doesn't know how it's pronounced.

    It should be æməzən with the stress on the first syllable

    He was saying æməzɒn (ie rhyming with con) with the stress on the final syllable

    How has he never learnt to say it properly?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.

    Yes, she focused on the main weaknesses of the government’s big picture (little to help ordinary people with cost of living, and lumping the burden disproportionately on those of working age), and even when her references to Brexit or to acknowledgements of the good bits got Tory cheers, there was a sting in the tail. Given the time she had to prepare, a good performance.
    The weaknesses come from the fact that the economic position is, well, weak. We have just paid bills for Covid that are the equivalent of a major war and haven't even seen the investment and extra production that a war would normally bring. Our expenditure has gone through the roof and there is more to come, especially on health. At the same time our tax base has taken a knock.

    Extra public spending is likely to drive growth for at least the next 18 months and I suspect that the forecasts for growth will prove more than a bit conservative but the balance between public and private spending in our economy is changing in a way that is going to be a challenge for future Chancellors. Can UK plc sustain a state of this size? I am really not sure.
  • IanB2 said:

    Taz said:

    Actually the mysterious Bridget Maeve Phillipson presents well on BBC News. Shadow Treasury seems to have a decent team.

    Not mysterious to me, I have said her before I think she comes over very well.

    She appears on local politics shows regularly and clearly outshines other labour spokespeople when they appear.

    I think she is one to watch. She seems quite smart.
    She knows that the price of monthly home heating bills, refilling your car and doing the Xmas shopping is going to be rather more in the news these next few months than the cost of a bottle of Prosecco or of a BA flight to Edinburgh.
    And the big picture (will people feel richer in 2023/4?) still looks pretty unpleasant;

    Over the next 5 years real household disposable income is expected to grow by 0.8% per year, well below the historical average.

    But growth had been weak in the decade before COVID, meaning average incomes are now expected to be 28% (£9,000 per capita) below the pre-2008 trend.


    https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1453349318761533442?s=20

    I don't know how we solve this, but if Rishinomics aren't the answer, we're going to be stuck in this grim game of taking a bit from Peter to give a bit to Paul.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    DavidL said:

    What we do seem to have seen is a budget that Ed Miliband might have been pretty proud of had things gone differently. A truly massive increase in public spending, some increases in taxes, notably for businesses through CT and ENI, and yet projected deficits which fall very rapidly as a share of GDP.

    I suspect that many on the right of the Tory party will be quietly appalled but they will be nowhere near as appalled as the pretty competent Labour shadow Treasury team. Boris and Rishi are running an extremely centrist, almost fractionally left of centre, government and it does not leave Labour with much room for offering a substantive alternative.

    Bit like what Blair & Brown did to the Tories.

    True I think but eventually, or maybe quite soon, what happened to the dismal Brown and Blair will happen to the only slightly less dismal Sunak and Johnson - they'll run out of other people's money.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    Nowadays, almost all white wine as well.

    Better wine making + global warming -> stronger wines.

    He mentioned rose as becoming cheaper in his speech. Does he really think roses typically come in under 11%?
    I can't think of any wine of 11%. Perhaps some sparklers.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392

    Starting without a queen would be more interesting than 30 seconds time limit.
    This is either incredibly subtle or a reply to a different post.
    Yes! Not sure what happened but was meant as a reply to the Bill Gates chess post.

    Carlsen without a queen vs Gates would have been interesting, and possibly determined by how much time each player had, the more time the better the chance for Gates. Whereas Carlsen with 30 seconds and all the pieces will win over 99% of the time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,701
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    Nowadays, almost all white wine as well.

    Better wine making + global warming -> stronger wines.

    He mentioned rose as becoming cheaper in his speech. Does he really think roses typically come in under 11%?
    He doesn't drink, so maybe he hasn't got a clue about the percentages?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    Just back in to catch up on this but seems no real screams of outrage. Just listened to Rachel Reeves reply. I honestly doubt that SKS would have done as well.

    Yes, she focused on the main weaknesses of the government’s big picture (little to help ordinary people with cost of living, and lumping the burden disproportionately on those of working age), and even when her references to Brexit or to acknowledgements of the good bits got Tory cheers, there was a sting in the tail. Given the time she had to prepare, a good performance.
    The weaknesses come from the fact that the economic position is, well, weak. We have just paid bills for Covid that are the equivalent of a major war and haven't even seen the investment and extra production that a war would normally bring. Our expenditure has gone through the roof and there is more to come, especially on health. At the same time our tax base has taken a knock.

    Extra public spending is likely to drive growth for at least the next 18 months and I suspect that the forecasts for growth will prove more than a bit conservative but the balance between public and private spending in our economy is changing in a way that is going to be a challenge for future Chancellors. Can UK plc sustain a state of this size? I am really not sure.
    The UK is gambling big time on a payback from its major investment plans and on being able to brush off the barriers to trade it has dropped on many businesses through Brexit, at the same time as the pandemic.

    It makes the question of when to call the next GE particularly interesting.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    No, probably not, but British buyers will be very conscious that they can offer wine with an alcohol level of less than 11% at a very competitive but still profitable price and they will look out for it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    By chance I bought our xmas port bottle earlier this week, as part of general stock up early policy.

    Looks like I have saved at least a £1 if the retailers pass on the tax rise.

    I'm so old I remember when increasing the price of a gentleman's port was enough to finish any career at the Treasury.

    Still some time to order a case by mail order.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,701
    I predict a lot of 3.4% beer is about to be brewed for the pubs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067

    ...
    Also the annual cancellation of the fuel duty rise is beyond absurd now. It's a complete fiction at this stage that a rise is planned and then cancelled. It's become such a pointless tradition that Chancellors might continue it right up until the point that sales of fossil-sourced motor fuels are eventually banned.

    Yes, the "I've saved you eleventy billion since 1897 by not raising a tax I never intended to raise" line is wearing a bit thin now.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Judging by Scott P's Think Tank posts it sounds like Rishi's increased our taxes.

    So - What's Labour complaining about?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    What we do seem to have seen is a budget that Ed Miliband might have been pretty proud of had things gone differently. A truly massive increase in public spending, some increases in taxes, notably for businesses through CT and ENI, and yet projected deficits which fall very rapidly as a share of GDP.

    I suspect that many on the right of the Tory party will be quietly appalled but they will be nowhere near as appalled as the pretty competent Labour shadow Treasury team. Boris and Rishi are running an extremely centrist, almost fractionally left of centre, government and it does not leave Labour with much room for offering a substantive alternative.

    Bit like what Blair & Brown did to the Tories.

    Setting himself fiscal tests - and presenting this as some sort of self-limiting virtue, when current data suggest they are already being comfortably met and are consequently of little real world consequence - is the sort of trickster politics that could easily unravel as financial journalists start to get their teeth into it.
    Not sure about that. They can point out that they are pretty meaningless, which they are, but where do they go next? Things tend to unravel a lot more when you don't make your objectives, no matter how easy they are.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    No, probably not, but British buyers will be very conscious that they can offer wine with an alcohol level of less than 11% at a very competitive but still profitable price and they will look out for it.
    Trouble is, we've got the taste for big peppery reds now. I'd guess (but happy to be proved wrong) that reds at 11% are going to taste a bit insipid?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited October 2021
    Unless I misheard, the changes in alcohol duty aren't going to be introduced until 2023. Everybody will have forgotten about them by then. Either way, I don't expect my pint of bitter to go down in price.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,722

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    Easy enough to do it for the exports to les rosbifs, just dilute each bottle with a little water :wink:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    No, probably not, but British buyers will be very conscious that they can offer wine with an alcohol level of less than 11% at a very competitive but still profitable price and they will look out for it.
    Trouble is, we've got the taste for big peppery reds now. I'd guess (but happy to be proved wrong) that reds at 11% are going to taste a bit insipid?
    I hesitate to generalise but I am starting to find some reds, notably Australian Shiraz and the like, just a tad on the strong side. Sometimes its a bit like drinking sherry which is not ideal to sip with a meal. I am aware of a female friend who has stopped drinking reds for the same reason.

    We shall see.
  • John Lewis explain their insurance ad
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,604
    Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    Easy enough to do it for the exports to les rosbifs, just dilute each bottle with a little water :wink:
    They could market it as a way to get around the Evian ban by creating a wine-water cocktail.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Selebian said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    Easy enough to do it for the exports to les rosbifs, just dilute each bottle with a little water :wink:
    I suspect the francophobes on here would prefer urine to water.

    Maybe there's an opportunity to try to resolve the problem of untreated sewage in the sea through the dilution of our liquid exports to France?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,372

    I predict a lot of 3.4% beer is about to be brewed for the pubs.

    So I'm screwed with my love of 8% DIPA's
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    No, probably not, but British buyers will be very conscious that they can offer wine with an alcohol level of less than 11% at a very competitive but still profitable price and they will look out for it.
    Trouble is, we've got the taste for big peppery reds now. I'd guess (but happy to be proved wrong) that reds at 11% are going to taste a bit insipid?
    I hesitate to generalise but I am starting to find some reds, notably Australian Shiraz and the like, just a tad on the strong side. Sometimes its a bit like drinking sherry which is not ideal to sip with a meal. I am aware of a female friend who has stopped drinking reds for the same reason.

    We shall see.
    My impression is that it's the Aussie reds that pack stupid punches and the European reds are a bit more civilised.

    How do these duty changes compare with the effects of the Brilliant Trade Deal?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,800
    Fishing said:

    DavidL said:

    What we do seem to have seen is a budget that Ed Miliband might have been pretty proud of had things gone differently. A truly massive increase in public spending, some increases in taxes, notably for businesses through CT and ENI, and yet projected deficits which fall very rapidly as a share of GDP.

    I suspect that many on the right of the Tory party will be quietly appalled but they will be nowhere near as appalled as the pretty competent Labour shadow Treasury team. Boris and Rishi are running an extremely centrist, almost fractionally left of centre, government and it does not leave Labour with much room for offering a substantive alternative.

    Bit like what Blair & Brown did to the Tories.

    True I think but eventually, or maybe quite soon, what happened to the dismal Brown and Blair will happen to the only slightly less dismal Sunak and Johnson - they'll run out of other people's money.
    Can I refer my honourable friend to my earlier comment about the quietly appalled.

  • (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    1h
    Rachel Reeves was basically like John Barnes against Argentina. Came on without any real chance to change the result. But a good performance. People will be buying shares in her.

    Blimey. Hodges needs to update his references. Surely Mrs Thatcher was PM back then, and half his readers weren't born.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    No, probably not, but British buyers will be very conscious that they can offer wine with an alcohol level of less than 11% at a very competitive but still profitable price and they will look out for it.
    Trouble is, we've got the taste for big peppery reds now. I'd guess (but happy to be proved wrong) that reds at 11% are going to taste a bit insipid?
    You get a prize if you can find one.

    An Italian Lambrusco, perhaps.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    edited October 2021

    John Lewis explain their insurance ad

    LOL.

    Weasel words though. "depiction of a young actor..."

    It looks for all the world that it depicts a boy who likes dressing up with all the associated implications.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    Nowadays, almost all white wine as well.

    Better wine making + global warming -> stronger wines.

    He mentioned rose as becoming cheaper in his speech. Does he really think roses typically come in under 11%?
    I can't think of any wine of 11%. Perhaps some sparklers.
    I’ve seen vinho verde at 11.5%. That’s the closest I recall.
  • John Lewis explain their insurance ad

    If only Chancellors were held to the same level of scrutiny in budget speeches!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    John Lewis explain their insurance ad

    If only Chancellors were held to the same level of scrutiny in budget speeches!
    Give it time.
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Oh, and as I forecast this morning when mocking the IMF forecast that we would still be down 3% on 2019 GDP in 2024 it does appear we will be there by the end of this year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59062392

    Starting without a queen would be more interesting than 30 seconds time limit.
    This is either incredibly subtle or a reply to a different post.
    Yes! Not sure what happened but was meant as a reply to the Bill Gates chess post.

    Carlsen without a queen vs Gates would have been interesting, and possibly determined by how much time each player had, the more time the better the chance for Gates. Whereas Carlsen with 30 seconds and all the pieces will win over 99% of the time.
    Interesting to about three people, as Channel 4 discovered when it bought the rights to Kasparov versus Short for peak evening viewing. They even curtailed the racing to get there for the start in case they missed the first ever Foolsmate in a world championship match.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    edited October 2021

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    If it encouraged wine producers to edge down their alcohol content that would be a good thing.
    I'm not persuaded that French wine producers, for example, will have been hanging on to Rishi's every word and, as we speak, trying to work out how to reduce the alcohol content of their vin rouge.
    No, probably not, but British buyers will be very conscious that they can offer wine with an alcohol level of less than 11% at a very competitive but still profitable price and they will look out for it.
    Trouble is, we've got the taste for big peppery reds now. I'd guess (but happy to be proved wrong) that reds at 11% are going to taste a bit insipid?
    I hesitate to generalise but I am starting to find some reds, notably Australian Shiraz and the like, just a tad on the strong side. Sometimes its a bit like drinking sherry which is not ideal to sip with a meal. I am aware of a female friend who has stopped drinking reds for the same reason.

    We shall see.
    My impression is that it's the Aussie reds that pack stupid punches and the European reds are a bit more civilised.

    How do these duty changes compare with the effects of the Brilliant Trade Deal?
    Much if not all of Laithwaites' business model is to flog 14-15% wines which you can't really taste beyond the alcohol.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,952
    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The devil in the detail.. the higher rates of booze duty will hit all reds above ELEVEN PER CENT.

    So all red wine.

    🍷


    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1453350019659177990

    Nowadays, almost all white wine as well.

    Better wine making + global warming -> stronger wines.

    He mentioned rose as becoming cheaper in his speech. Does he really think roses typically come in under 11%?
    I can't think of any wine of 11%. Perhaps some sparklers.
    I’ve seen vinho verde at 11.5%. That’s the closest I recall.
    Yep that sounds about right I had thought perhaps prosecco also but they are 12%.

    Tio Pepe = 18%. :smile:
This discussion has been closed.