“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
The question you should be asking is if anyone has decided to insulate more quickly.
The answer to that is a resounding yes. We’re all talking about it and we’re all thinking about it.
Like it or not its an effective protest.
We may be talking about it, but is anyone doing anything about it?
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
The question you should be asking is if anyone has decided to insulate more quickly.
The answer to that is a resounding yes. We’re all talking about it and we’re all thinking about it.
Like it or not its an effective protest.
Its only effective if you think all publicity is good publicity.
If its undermining the cause of environmentalism as people think "these idiots are on another planet" it can undermine the cause.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
The Boris led Tory MPs will come up with a simple formula:
Rule Breaking * Labour MP = Action Rule Breaking * Tory MP = No Action
Think this formula covers most scenarios. Corbyn Labour would behave very similarly, previous Tory leaders and the current Labour leader would do it differently.
3. Let's look at when you leave your home. What's the best transport choice for the climate: buying an electric car or using public transport as much as possible?
Hmm, I'd like to see a full life cycle analysis on that!
Maybe 'using the electric care you already have', but it would take some journeys before you could justify the manufacturing emissions of the EV. Also, if the bus is running anyway then your marginal contribution to its emissions are minimal (your extra weight).
I think I posted here before about the analysis (cited in a PhD thesis I examined) that an efficienct ICE car could be greener than walking, which also didn't stand up to much scrutiny.
Edit: Also, for extra pedantry, what about if 'public transport' is an electric train with only a walk at either end? Quite common in the SE at least - that's my brother's commute, when he goes into the London office.
Also, the "battery-powered car charged with renewable energy" - how on earth do you ensure that your car is only charged with renewable energy? Obviously you can sometimes do it if you happen have your own solar panels and wind turbine to charge from, but how else?
My electricity provider claims to supply me with 100% renewable energy. I suppose I could use it to charge a car.
Does your electricity bill provider give you new green plug sockets in your house that only give you the good electricity?
No, they just supply 100% green electricity through the old sockets.
"all of our tariffs are 100% renewable electricity – which means we will match every unit of electricity you use with a renewable certificate for the same amount. This matching is done through Ofgem’s REGO (Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin) scheme – the system used by suppliers across the U.K. to verify their claims of the amount of renewable energy supplied."
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
That's a rather narrow definition of effective however.
So long as there is no counter reaction, as seems unlikely, then true, it's not a complete waste. But if it doesn't lead to positive change that they want getting people talking about it doesn't mean squat either, particularly if it takes attention from, or undermines, potentially more effective protests.
It will move the zeitgeist further towards where they want. There will be no counter reaction.
The government will arrest them all, we will all go back to normal, but people will remember the message.
Its an effective protest.
The suffragettes caused loads of civil disorder and annoyance.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
Paterson, not withstanding his bereavement, appears to have a superiority complex and arrogance that will probably see minimal sanctions against him. He is one of those MPs that rules don't really apply to the letter, and a slapped wrist (or short suspension) is the worst he can expect. Paterson is also very much an establishment figure in Johnson's brand of Conservative Party. He has lots of influential allies in the wing of the party of which he is associated.
So if his opponents force a by-election we reckon he'd run again? Seems like a chance for the opposition to run a Neil Hamilton vs Martin Bell type of operation.
Hamilton got 55% of the vote in Tatton in 1992, Paterson got 62% of the vote in North Shropshire in 2019.
He would likely win again therefore in any by election if he ran again and it would need all other parties to stand down in favour of an Independent to even have a chance to unseat him
I noticed yesterday when we were discussing bottled water, that Volvic and Evian claim to be carbon neutral.
I don't know the equivalent figures for Evian, though I'd imagine much higher on both counts, but found out that Volvic bottle just over a billion litres of water every year (pleasingly to me, that's a Wembley Stadium filled to the brim each year), and over 50% of it is sold outside France.
What is it that they actually do to "neutralise" the carbon required to move 500,000 tons of water abroad every year, and that required to make a billion plastic bottles?
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
The question you should be asking is if anyone has decided to insulate more quickly.
The answer to that is a resounding yes. We’re all talking about it and we’re all thinking about it.
3. Let's look at when you leave your home. What's the best transport choice for the climate: buying an electric car or using public transport as much as possible?
Hmm, I'd like to see a full life cycle analysis on that!
Maybe 'using the electric care you already have', but it would take some journeys before you could justify the manufacturing emissions of the EV. Also, if the bus is running anyway then your marginal contribution to its emissions are minimal (your extra weight).
I think I posted here before about the analysis (cited in a PhD thesis I examined) that an efficienct ICE car could be greener than walking, which also didn't stand up to much scrutiny.
Edit: Also, for extra pedantry, what about if 'public transport' is an electric train with only a walk at either end? Quite common in the SE at least - that's my brother's commute, when he goes into the London office.
Also, the "battery-powered car charged with renewable energy" - how on earth do you ensure that your car is only charged with renewable energy? Obviously you can sometimes do it if you happen have your own solar panels and wind turbine to charge from, but how else?
My electricity provider claims to supply me with 100% renewable energy. I suppose I could use it to charge a car.
Does your electricity bill provider give you new green plug sockets in your house that only give you the good electricity?
No, they just supply 100% green electricity through the old sockets.
"all of our tariffs are 100% renewable electricity – which means we will match every unit of electricity you use with a renewable certificate for the same amount. This matching is done through Ofgem’s REGO (Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin) scheme – the system used by suppliers across the U.K. to verify their claims of the amount of renewable energy supplied."
I presume your power goes off on still, dull days?
Mr. Unpopular, this is why our cost-effective trebuchet building programme is so urgently needed.
Mr. kle4, we believe in learning lessons from all around the world, whether that's using Roman scorpions, French trebuchets, or the Greek fire of the Eastern Romans.
Mr. Gate, the political class right now is drunk on green juice the same way it used to be unified in loving the EU. It won't last. Not when the bills start rolling in for people on average and low salaries and who don't have seven figure bank accounts or the taxpayer funding their lifestyle. Overegging the cake by having a pissing contest to see who can be 'greenest' will only exacerbate the backlash.
It took a while for anti-EU sentiment to get going. That'll be true for this as well, but the itemised financial punishments meted out to consumers will make it a lot more real a lot more rapidly than more conceptual discussions of sovereignty.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
That's a rather narrow definition of effective however.
So long as there is no counter reaction, as seems unlikely, then true, it's not a complete waste. But if it doesn't lead to positive change that they want getting people talking about it doesn't mean squat either, particularly if it takes attention from, or undermines, potentially more effective protests.
It will move the zeitgeist further towards where they want. There will be no counter reaction.
The government will arrest them all, we will all go back to normal, but people will remember the message.
Its an effective protest.
The suffragettes caused loads of civil disorder and annoyance.
I think it is reasonably effective, but I think stating 'it will move the zeitgeist further towards where they want' is an unproven statement and assumption. It's quite possible things go back to normal and people don't remember the message, as some other protest/movement gets their attention instead.
You're assuming it is moving the zeitgeist, but most protests are flash in a pan, in and out, or overwhelmed and absorbed by some much larger and more impactful message. People might just remember the loony protest and not the message.
Perhaps not, but you cannot assume the opposite either.
3. Let's look at when you leave your home. What's the best transport choice for the climate: buying an electric car or using public transport as much as possible?
Hmm, I'd like to see a full life cycle analysis on that!
Maybe 'using the electric care you already have', but it would take some journeys before you could justify the manufacturing emissions of the EV. Also, if the bus is running anyway then your marginal contribution to its emissions are minimal (your extra weight).
I think I posted here before about the analysis (cited in a PhD thesis I examined) that an efficienct ICE car could be greener than walking, which also didn't stand up to much scrutiny.
Edit: Also, for extra pedantry, what about if 'public transport' is an electric train with only a walk at either end? Quite common in the SE at least - that's my brother's commute, when he goes into the London office.
Also, the "battery-powered car charged with renewable energy" - how on earth do you ensure that your car is only charged with renewable energy? Obviously you can sometimes do it if you happen have your own solar panels and wind turbine to charge from, but how else?
My electricity provider claims to supply me with 100% renewable energy. I suppose I could use it to charge a car.
Does your electricity bill provider give you new green plug sockets in your house that only give you the good electricity?
No, they just supply 100% green electricity through the old sockets.
"all of our tariffs are 100% renewable electricity – which means we will match every unit of electricity you use with a renewable certificate for the same amount. This matching is done through Ofgem’s REGO (Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin) scheme – the system used by suppliers across the U.K. to verify their claims of the amount of renewable energy supplied."
Yes, this was one of the interesting side effects of the market in electricity providers - green tariffs like this are possible.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Tory Mp not wearing masks (rather like Labour ones at Brighton incidentally) are sending the right message not the wrong one that the country needs ot get over its obsession with covid 19 especially given the drop in cases coming through .
There is no majority support for facemasks being made compulsory . you might get a leading survey indicating so but its naturally going to be a bit biased if only because it reminds people of covid to start with. Your stat of only 25% thameslink wearers show the public hate them really
I vaguely (so apologies for innacuracy) remember from my GCSE history, when I did WWI there was pressure on the Government to introduce conscription, with the attitude of men being 'Well, I'll go if I have to but I won't volunteer'. Even if people were happy (possibly the wrong word, but also possibly not!) to go, leaving a livelihood and a family would be a big step and people might have felt they needed this nudge. I wonder if mask wearing is similar. I know very few that like to wear them and human nature being human nature means that, without that pressure, people will wear them less often even if they support wearing them in principle. The public might very well hate masks (I know I do), but I see no contradiction between that hatred and support for continuing to wear them, nor do I see a contradiction between the reported levels of mask usage and public support for continuing to wear them.
In WW1 the problem was there were too many volunteers and HMG had to work to get people back from France to do their old jobs in the mines and shipyards. There were also top scientists (most famously Henry Moseley who gave us atomic numbers and was killed at Gallipoli) and dozens of MPs (how unlike today) serving.
Mr. Malmesbury, unfortunately, decomposition would prove unhelpful.
Although, a century or two ago, a French fellow did find a way to electroplate corpses. I always rather like that idea. Could function here to mitigate the impact.
On the anti-Vax school invasions, I think I am inclined to think of them like the Insulate Britain types - fools disrupting others' lives because of their own ignorance.
I think various offences should be available including Aggravated Trespass, some around Harrassment, perhaps Obstruction, and others.
I noticed yesterday when we were discussing bottled water, that Volvic and Evian claim to be carbon neutral.
I don't know the equivalent figures for Evian, though I'd imagine much higher on both counts, but found out that Volvic bottle just over a billion litres of water every year (pleasingly to me, that's a Wembley Stadium filled to the brim each year), and over 50% of it is sold outside France.
What is it that they actually do to "neutralise" the carbon required to move 500,000 tons of water abroad every year, and that required to make a billion plastic bottles?
As far as these things go their record is not dreadful on the face of it, but it still relies on a lot of offsetting, which is ultimately not sustainable.
Some of it has an air of, "we did these things to save money and fortunately we get greenkudos for them too!" Which is good in the sense of progress being made, but it does still leave the hard/expensive things to do.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
That's the point. People will think somewhere - oh I should get this place insulated (if they can). And I'm guessing that whether some spanner glues himself to the DLR or not is not going to hasten or slow down that process. It will happen when the economics of it become compelling.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
That's a rather narrow definition of effective however.
So long as there is no counter reaction, as seems unlikely, then true, it's not a complete waste. But if it doesn't lead to positive change that they want getting people talking about it doesn't mean squat either, particularly if it takes attention from, or undermines, potentially more effective protests.
It will move the zeitgeist further towards where they want. There will be no counter reaction.
The government will arrest them all, we will all go back to normal, but people will remember the message.
Its an effective protest.
The suffragettes caused loads of civil disorder and annoyance.
I think it is reasonably effective, but I think stating 'it will move the zeitgeist further towards where they want' is an unproven statement and assumption. It's quite possible things go back to normal and people don't remember the message, as some other protest/movement gets their attention instead.
You're assuming it is moving the zeitgeist, but most protests are flash in a pan, in and out, or overwhelmed and absorbed by some much larger and more impactful message. People might just remember the loony protest and not the message.
Perhaps not, but you cannot assume the opposite either.
I'm not really sure it will.
The higher energy prices are doing far more.
And the IB tits are putting out misinformation about subsidied insulation measures not being available; they are.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
Paterson, not withstanding his bereavement, appears to have a superiority complex and arrogance that will probably see minimal sanctions against him. He is one of those MPs that rules don't really apply to the letter, and a slapped wrist (or short suspension) is the worst he can expect. Paterson is also very much an establishment figure in Johnson's brand of Conservative Party. He has lots of influential allies in the wing of the party of which he is associated.
So if his opponents force a by-election we reckon he'd run again? Seems like a chance for the opposition to run a Neil Hamilton vs Martin Bell type of operation.
Hamilton got 55% of the vote in Tatton in 1992, Paterson got 62% of the vote in North Shropshire in 2019.
He would likely win again therefore in any by election if he ran again and it would need all other parties to stand down in favour of an Independent to even have a chance to unseat him
I agree it's a heavy lift for Lib or Lab, that's why I'm suggesting the Martin Bell maneuver. Just comparing raw numbers like that it looks like it would flip? Hamilton: 55%-> -17.5% = 37.5% Paterson: 62%-> -17.5% = 44.5%
Now, obviously the cases aren't the same, in that Hamilton's probably sounded worse to the voters, and there was also the underlying collapse of the Con vote from 92 to 97. But this would be a by-election rather than a GE, so if you like the Tories but you don't like corruption you can send a message without risking government by the dreaded Tony Blair with the demon eyes. IDK, I think I'd favour Paterson to hold on but it feels like it might be a race.
Mr. Malmesbury, unfortunately, decomposition would prove unhelpful.
Although, a century or two ago, a French fellow did find a way to electroplate corpses. I always rather like that idea. Could function here to mitigate the impact.
Freeze drying?
You can electroplate anything. Dip it in lacquer mixed with lots of carbon. Forms a thin film. Then electroplate away.
I got my wife some platinum plated roses for our 10th anniversary.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
The Boris led Tory MPs will come up with a simple formula:
Rule Breaking * Labour MP = Action Rule Breaking * Tory MP = No Action
Think this formula covers most scenarios. Corbyn Labour would behave very similarly, previous Tory leaders and the current Labour leader would do it differently.
Any evidence on Corbyn's Labour? David Cameron when LotO during the expenses scandal was widely thought to be protecting his mates and slinging out the Tory awkward squad, a policy followed in spades by Boris, except the definition of awkward squad had changed.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
Paterson, not withstanding his bereavement, appears to have a superiority complex and arrogance that will probably see minimal sanctions against him. He is one of those MPs that rules don't really apply to the letter, and a slapped wrist (or short suspension) is the worst he can expect. Paterson is also very much an establishment figure in Johnson's brand of Conservative Party. He has lots of influential allies in the wing of the party of which he is associated.
I got a very strong impression of 'the rules don't apply to me' after reading the Standards Committee report. FWIW.
Also, FWIW, I'm a very long way from convinced that Randox is offering unique testing solutions, which would be the only way in which his claims might have some justification.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
Paterson, not withstanding his bereavement, appears to have a superiority complex and arrogance that will probably see minimal sanctions against him. He is one of those MPs that rules don't really apply to the letter, and a slapped wrist (or short suspension) is the worst he can expect. Paterson is also very much an establishment figure in Johnson's brand of Conservative Party. He has lots of influential allies in the wing of the party of which he is associated.
So if his opponents force a by-election we reckon he'd run again? Seems like a chance for the opposition to run a Neil Hamilton vs Martin Bell type of operation.
Hamilton got 55% of the vote in Tatton in 1992, Paterson got 62% of the vote in North Shropshire in 2019.
He would likely win again therefore in any by election if he ran again and it would need all other parties to stand down in favour of an Independent to even have a chance to unseat him
I agree it's a heavy lift for Lib or Lab, that's why I'm suggesting the Martin Bell maneuver. Just comparing raw numbers like that it looks like it would flip? Hamilton: 55%-> -17.5% = 37.5% Paterson: 62%-> -17.5% = 44.5%
Now, obviously the cases aren't the same, in that Hamilton's probably sounded worse to the voters, and there was also the underlying collapse of the Con vote from 92 to 97. But this would be a by-election rather than a GE, so if you like the Tories but you don't like corruption you can send a message without risking government by the dreaded Tony Blair with the demon eyes. IDK, I think I'd favour Paterson to hold on but it feels like it might be a race.
Given current polling compared to 1997 polling and the fact that Hamilton faced far worse allegations and had Christine by his side unlike Paterson who has had to deal with the tragic suicide of his wife over this I would expect Paterson to romp home even if a by election.
However I agree on paper it is possible he could lose if all other parties united behind a well known, whiter than white Independent on a Tatton 1997 style swing
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
That is unclear.
For example, the Government may have been thinking about extra help for insulation but now cannot do so because it would be seen as caving in to Insulate Britain. So counter-productive in that scenario.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
The only disappointing part of this is the commitment to non violence.
The state won't hesitate to use violence against them and we've had repeated violent fantasies about the protestors from the reactionaries on here.
I doubt it. Paterson is part of the HoC furniture, he's not going anywhere.
This would have been a massive scandal, ten, twenty or thirty years ago. Times have changed. I mentioned earlier Hugh Dalton resigning for blowing the contents of the 1947 Budget before revealing it to Parliament. It seems these days MPs are the last to know.
Aren't you missing the point of the article, though? Under the rules, if the Commons approves the recommended sanction (which they virtually always do), then Tory-critical voters (>35% at the 2019 election) can force a by-election if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for it. Whether fellow-MPs feel he's part of the furniture doesn't affect it.
I still doubt Paterson reaches the 10% recall petition threshold. I find him to be an odious politician, but he is not my MP so I don't have a say.
Can't the Tory party install him as the recall by election candidate anyway?
He did lose his wife to suicide over the issue sadly
This is going to sound harsh but that shouldn't mitigate his behaviour in any way.
A former colleague of mine (from many years ago) was convicted of a serious sexual abuse of a young relative. On his being charged his wife walked onto the railway track in Yate Infront of an Intercity 125 from Paddington to Swansea. His loss was not taken in mitigation (and rightly so).
A wholly different level of offending granted, but should he get a free pass. I would say no, you are entitled, and with some justification, to disagree.
No - I do agree with you
I don't know where I stand on this, but it is probably not with the absolute no mitigation in any circumstances. Should a person suffering a PTSD attack be held fully responsible for his or her actions during that attack with absolutely no mitigation? I would say no, there must be at least some mitigation and even some consideration if a person can be held responsible in that situation.
But that line between be capable of being held responsible or not is not a sharp, black and white one in my mind. It is well known that under extreme stress and fatigue we are much less able to make good decisions. And that is a sliding scale.
If stress, fatigue, or other factors that are known to diminish our capacity to rationalize and make good decisions are present, I think those should somehow be factored in to both responsibility and mitigation considerations accordingly. But I can't see how that can be turned into a simple formula.
The Boris led Tory MPs will come up with a simple formula:
Rule Breaking * Labour MP = Action Rule Breaking * Tory MP = No Action
Think this formula covers most scenarios. Corbyn Labour would behave very similarly, previous Tory leaders and the current Labour leader would do it differently.
Any evidence on Corbyn's Labour? David Cameron when LotO during the expenses scandal was widely thought to be protecting his mates and slinging out the Tory awkward squad, a policy followed in spades by Boris, except the definition of awkward squad had changed.
The whole anti Semitism thing. "They can't be anti semitic because they are Corbyn's mates so are good."
Same as Boris's mates are "good old boys who have not dotted their I's and crossed their T's" when in reality they are breaking ethics rules in spirit and substance with impunity because of weak leadership.
I noticed yesterday when we were discussing bottled water, that Volvic and Evian claim to be carbon neutral.
I don't know the equivalent figures for Evian, though I'd imagine much higher on both counts, but found out that Volvic bottle just over a billion litres of water every year (pleasingly to me, that's a Wembley Stadium filled to the brim each year), and over 50% of it is sold outside France.
What is it that they actually do to "neutralise" the carbon required to move 500,000 tons of water abroad every year, and that required to make a billion plastic bottles?
As far as these things go their record is not dreadful on the face of it, but it still relies on a lot of offsetting, which is ultimately not sustainable.
Some of it has an air of, "we did these things to save money and fortunately we get greenkudos for them too!" Which is good in the sense of progress being made, but it does still leave the hard/expensive things to do.
Mr. Malmesbury, unfortunately, decomposition would prove unhelpful.
Although, a century or two ago, a French fellow did find a way to electroplate corpses. I always rather like that idea. Could function here to mitigate the impact.
Freeze drying?
You can electroplate anything. Dip it in lacquer mixed with lots of carbon. Forms a thin film. Then electroplate away.
I got my wife some platinum plated roses for our 10th anniversary.
I noticed yesterday when we were discussing bottled water, that Volvic and Evian claim to be carbon neutral.
I don't know the equivalent figures for Evian, though I'd imagine much higher on both counts, but found out that Volvic bottle just over a billion litres of water every year (pleasingly to me, that's a Wembley Stadium filled to the brim each year)...
Who on earth enjoys the flavour of Wembley Stadium ?
No doubt to my mind that the Insulate Britain protests are damned effective at doing what they seek to do: getting the issue of insulation into the public consciousness.
Tory Mp not wearing masks (rather like Labour ones at Brighton incidentally) are sending the right message not the wrong one that the country needs ot get over its obsession with covid 19 especially given the drop in cases coming through .
There is no majority support for facemasks being made compulsory . you might get a leading survey indicating so but its naturally going to be a bit biased if only because it reminds people of covid to start with. Your stat of only 25% thameslink wearers show the public hate them really
I vaguely (so apologies for innacuracy) remember from my GCSE history, when I did WWI there was pressure on the Government to introduce conscription, with the attitude of men being 'Well, I'll go if I have to but I won't volunteer'. Even if people were happy (possibly the wrong word, but also possibly not!) to go, leaving a livelihood and a family would be a big step and people might have felt they needed this nudge. I wonder if mask wearing is similar. I know very few that like to wear them and human nature being human nature means that, without that pressure, people will wear them less often even if they support wearing them in principle. The public might very well hate masks (I know I do), but I see no contradiction between that hatred and support for continuing to wear them, nor do I see a contradiction between the reported levels of mask usage and public support for continuing to wear them.
In WW1 the problem was there were too many volunteers and HMG had to work to get people back from France to do their old jobs in the mines and shipyards. There were also top scientists (most famously Henry Moseley who gave us atomic numbers and was killed at Gallipoli) and dozens of MPs (how unlike today) serving.
Indeed, Asquith lost his son to the war while Prime Minister. I thought the comparison might not have been fully accurate, and, having read it, much prefer Nick Palmer's comparison between paying tax and wearing masks.
EU Commissioner Thierry Breton says Brexit is an "economic catastrophe" for Britain:
"Look at what's going on with store shelves ... with the restocking of fuel ... with the lack of nurses and doctors ... with the truck driver shortage [and] with everything construction. What's going on these days is a disaster," Breton said.
"Consider that after they said they could regain prosperity, which meant to some extent that every EU national would be kicked out — at least a large part of them — well now they need to come back, because nurses are missing. There's 100,000 truck drivers missing ... It is what it is and we deplore it," he added.
I think this needs to be fact-checked. A large fraction of the EU nationals living in the UK have left?
Breton seems to me to be one of Marcon's little mini-trolls.
He was one at the heart of the assault on AZ vaccines, and has been blathering on about fishermen, and said quite a bit of crazy (and untrue) stuff wrt submarines such as 'our contract *was* running to time'.
Mr. Malmesbury, unfortunately, decomposition would prove unhelpful.
Although, a century or two ago, a French fellow did find a way to electroplate corpses. I always rather like that idea. Could function here to mitigate the impact.
Freeze drying?
You can electroplate anything. Dip it in lacquer mixed with lots of carbon. Forms a thin film. Then electroplate away.
I got my wife some platinum plated roses for our 10th anniversary.
Shouldn't that be tin?
The reason for powdered carbon in lacquer is, apparently, that it forms a very thin, conductive film at *room temperature* on anything.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
That is unclear.
For example, the Government may have been thinking about extra help for insulation but now cannot do so because it would be seen as caving in to Insulate Britain. So counter-productive in that scenario.
Only in your usual dream world. The government is pro-insulation and will remain so. So the idea that they are suddenly going to er, go cold, on insulation because of IB is another of your bizarre fantasies I'm afraid.
Not sure if this has been widely picked up on but several European countries are seeing rises in Covid cases. Belgium is currently has a much steeper rise in cases than we have experienced lately. Netherlands isn't far behind.
Germany looks to be on the increase and they do less than 10% of the testing that we do.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
And losing their case big time
Not really. I don’t think people have decided we shouldn’t in fact insulate Britain because of these whoppers.
Their case is not just for insulation, it is for much more rapid insulation.
And?
Has anyone decided we should insulate more slowly just to spite these people?
Doubt it.
It’s an effective protest at the end of the day, even if its unsavoury.
We’re all talking about it.
That is unclear.
For example, the Government may have been thinking about extra help for insulation but now cannot do so because it would be seen as caving in to Insulate Britain. So counter-productive in that scenario.
EU Commissioner Thierry Breton says Brexit is an "economic catastrophe" for Britain:
"Look at what's going on with store shelves ... with the restocking of fuel ... with the lack of nurses and doctors ... with the truck driver shortage [and] with everything construction. What's going on these days is a disaster," Breton said.
"Consider that after they said they could regain prosperity, which meant to some extent that every EU national would be kicked out — at least a large part of them — well now they need to come back, because nurses are missing. There's 100,000 truck drivers missing ... It is what it is and we deplore it," he added.
I think this needs to be fact-checked. A large fraction of the EU nationals living in the UK have left?
Breton seems to me to be one of Marcon's little mini-trolls.
He was one at the heart of the assault on AZ vaccines, and has been blathering on about fishermen, and said quite a bit of crazy (and untrue) stuff wrt submarines such as 'our contract *was* running to time'.
The Australians did not exercise any of the non performance clauses in their contract with Naval. Instead they elected for the vastly more expensive option of a termination for convenience.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
The only disappointing part of this is the commitment to non violence.
The state won't hesitate to use violence against them and we've had repeated violent fantasies about the protestors from the reactionaries on here.
Well the state hasn’t used violence so far. The Party of law and order have been made mugs of by these cranks and simply emboldened them.
You talk about violent protest but I suspect that’s all it is. What’s stopping you going down to get stuck in if it comes to it.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
The only disappointing part of this is the commitment to non violence.
The state won't hesitate to use violence against them and we've had repeated violent fantasies about the protestors from the reactionaries on here.
I would call the alleged commitment to non-violence a lie.
They have repeatedly, from the top to the bottom, expressed the view that the heath and lives of vulnerable people are expendable because their demonstrations are more important.
That is not non-violent, except in the most cynical terms.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
No doubt to my mind that the Insulate Britain protests are damned effective at doing what they seek to do: getting the issue of insulation into the public consciousness.
o/t but unexpected in more than one way: Mr McCluskey on Scottish Labour politics:
"We've been telling Labour in Scotland since 2007 – when a certain Nicola Sturgeon won a seat in Glasgow – to wake up and smell the coffee," he said on the BBC's Good Morning Scotland programme.
"The reality is the SNP have stolen the radical clothes of Scottish Labour and Scottish Labour have lost the trust of ordinary working people."
To win back that trust, the former union leader said: "They're going to have to battle really strongly; in my opinion they should support a second referendum on independence, what they actually do when that referendum comes can still be debated."
You can't protest on the M25 if you've just been launched by a trebuchet into the North Sea.
Tough on twits, tough on the causes of twits.
Vote Morris Dancer.
Look, Mr Dancer. Some of us care for the environment. Pollution is bad. What have the good denizens of the North Sea done to deserve having such a lot of toxic trash deposited amongst them?
You can't protest on the M25 if you've just been launched by a trebuchet into the North Sea.
Tough on twits, tough on the causes of twits.
Vote Morris Dancer.
Look, Mr Dancer. Some of us care for the environment. Pollution is bad. What have the good denizens of the North Sea done to deserve having such a lot of toxic trash deposited amongst them?
Genetically modified super-haddock have to eat....
No doubt to my mind that the Insulate Britain protests are damned effective at doing what they seek to do: getting the issue of insulation into the public consciousness.
Irrelevant. The point is that insulation is now in the public consciousness as a first order environmental issue in the way that it previously was not. So, job done from IB's point of view.
Make it tuneable and you can run it as a tourist attraction at the weekends and a protestor tosser during the week. It would probably even be self funding.
No doubt to my mind that the Insulate Britain protests are damned effective at doing what they seek to do: getting the issue of insulation into the public consciousness.
Irrelevant. The point is that insulation is now in the public consciousness as a first order environmental issue in the way that it previously was not. So, job done from IB's point of view.
They already have leftwingers on board, most conservatives will be sceptical of their campaign anyway, now outright opposed.
They needed to win those in the middle, this will have turned them against so as not to reward their methods
EU Commissioner Thierry Breton says Brexit is an "economic catastrophe" for Britain:
"Look at what's going on with store shelves ... with the restocking of fuel ... with the lack of nurses and doctors ... with the truck driver shortage [and] with everything construction. What's going on these days is a disaster," Breton said.
"Consider that after they said they could regain prosperity, which meant to some extent that every EU national would be kicked out — at least a large part of them — well now they need to come back, because nurses are missing. There's 100,000 truck drivers missing ... It is what it is and we deplore it," he added.
I think this needs to be fact-checked. A large fraction of the EU nationals living in the UK have left?
Breton seems to me to be one of Marcon's little mini-trolls.
He was one at the heart of the assault on AZ vaccines, and has been blathering on about fishermen, and said quite a bit of crazy (and untrue) stuff wrt submarines such as 'our contract *was* running to time'.
The Australians did not exercise any of the non performance clauses in their contract with Naval. Instead they elected for the vastly more expensive option of a termination for convenience.
Not sure what that is supposed to mean. They hadn't gone sunbathing in San Tropez either.
However, at an early stage the contract was a number of years behind schedule, and already 10s of bns over cost. That is well known.
I wonder if peltasts (skirmishers who threw javelins/darts, I think) has the same root...
Mr. W, blocking people trying to see dying relatives is pretty damned wretched.
One would think so, but that is an epsilon not an alpha as the second letter so I checked - and it is from πέλτη pelte for the kind of light shield they had. Not what I had expected, either.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
Does that includes its banning of Far Right parties like the BNP and Britain First and also banning the EDL on Facebook? To be honest I think Zuckerberg tries to keep some sort of balance politically for both left and right without letting too many extremists in.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
Firstly, it won't cost £500bn for insulation. That's a rhetoric number for PR purposes I suspect.
Secondly, IB are a collection of idiots groomed into criminal actions. Suffragettes were far more serious - with quite a spectrum of activists up to and including SHAC types actions.
No doubt to my mind that the Insulate Britain protests are damned effective at doing what they seek to do: getting the issue of insulation into the public consciousness.
Irrelevant. The point is that insulation is now in the public consciousness as a first order environmental issue in the way that it previously was not. So, job done from IB's point of view.
They already have leftwingers on board, most conservatives will be sceptical of their campaign anyway, now outright opposed.
They needed to win those in the middle, this will have turned them against so as not to reward their methods
Most left wingers seem to support the cause but not the means.
Still, your party, the party of govt, the party of law and order has been inept in dealing with this as has the police.
I hope other groups do the same. Anti vaxxers, pro refugees, any other Fringe groups looking for publicity.
The govt has shown no spine and allowed it to happen. Let’s have a free for all.
Make it tuneable and you can run it as a tourist attraction at the weekends and a protestor tosser during the week. It would probably even be self funding.
Don't give Morris Dancer ideas. Some things should remain in the realms of fantasy.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
What the police need to do more of, is deploy (more of) a completely inhumane and terrifying weapon.....
Cups of tea.
Standard procedure when someone fastens themselves to something is to feed them cups of tea. After a while, the attached party becomes interested in being unattached. Rapidly....
I've heard stories that protestors who chained themselves to something, threw the keys away and then abused the police discovered that Constable Savage had lost his bolt cutters at that point.....
The public are not demasking because some MPs are. The public are not watching BBC parliament. The public pay little to no heed to what politicians are doing. The public are demasking because they have been vaccinated, and if they not to get back to normal now, when will they get back to normal? Covid is no longer scaring people, and they are behaving accordingly. And some MPs, belatedly, are taking their lead from the public.
Mike, if not now, at what point do you think the public should be allowed to demask? When hospitalisations are at half their current levels? When infections are half their current levels? A quarter? No infections at all? Ever?
I appreciate your particular sensitivities about your health, but for most people, the threat is now of a cold. We didn't mask for that in the past.
No doubt to my mind that the Insulate Britain protests are damned effective at doing what they seek to do: getting the issue of insulation into the public consciousness.
Are they annoying? Yes.
Do they push it too far? Certainly.
Is it effective? I'm afraid so.
But literally nobody is making the case that we shouldn't be insulating our homes. Most of us our insulating our homes. By default, I'm quite enthusiastic about environmental causes. Pillocks like these make me less sympathetic to their cause.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
Like most criminal activity it seems a teeny minority of people keep breaking the law again and again in a revolving door. The Police arrest them, then they're back on the streets by Friday to be arrested again and again and again.
It only ends when you stop the revolving door. If someone is arrested a second time for criminal activity while on bail then hold them on remand until their trial ends. They can't keep breaking the law if they don't keep getting released to do it again.
Miss Livermore, ah, that stirs a faint memory now you mention it. Should probably re-read Dodge. (That's why the hoplon chaps are called hoplites, after all).
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
What the police need to do more of, is deploy (more of) a completely inhumane and terrifying weapon.....
Cups of tea.
Standard procedure when someone fastens themselves to something is to feed them cups of tea. After a while, the attached party becomes interested in being unattached. Rapidly....
I've heard stories that protestors who chained themselves to something, threw the keys away and then abused the police discovered that Constable Savage had lost his bolt cutters at that point.....
I believe the cups of tea and cakes have been tried several times in London already. The Met May be inept At policing but they are not bad at taking protesters order for elevenses.
On sustainable foods, here's Soylent Green without the human element.
https://solarfoods.fi/our-news/solar-foods-takes-concrete-steps-to-enter-the-market-construction-of-factory-01-begins-set-to-produce-the-worlds-most-sustainable-protein-in-2023/ Solein is a complete protein containing all the essential amino acids. It vanishes into foods and doesn’t change the taste of familiar, everyday food products. Solein is produced using a bioprocess where microbes are fed with gases (carbon dioxide, hydrogen, and oxygen) and small amounts of nutrients. The bioprocess resembles winemaking, with carbon dioxide and hydrogen replacing sugar as the source of carbon and energy, respectively. Solein complements the nutritional profile of plant-based food products without the consumer noticing a difference in the final dish. It can be used as a structure-forming ingredient for example in alternative dairy and meat, different snacks and beverages, noodles and pasta, or breads and spreads in replacing meat, dairy, and egg. See more at: https://www.solein.com/foods The production of Solein is not reliant on agriculture, weather, or climate: it can be produced in harsh conditions such as deserts, Arctic areas, even space. The process does not require agriculture, photosynthetic plants, or animals, making Solein the world’s most sustainable protein. Solein will become available for commercial use for the first time. It is aimed at food brands looking for nutritious, neutral, functional, and sustainable protein ingredients of consistent quality that can be reliably delivered for their products...
I hadn't realised the average diesel car carrying four passengers produces less than half the CO2 emissions (per passenger) of the average bus.
Yes, it is only single person cars that are worse. The same goes for diesel trains. I suppose the argument might be that the bus is going anyway, but increasing their frequency to replace shared cars is not a winner.
Buses also seem to be exempt from emissions rules, at least round here. You wouldn't want to follow one on a bicycle.
They seem to be an ideal use case for conversion to battery power.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
Like most criminal activity it seems a teeny minority of people keep breaking the law again and again in a revolving door. The Police arrest them, then they're back on the streets by Friday to be arrested again and again and again.
It only ends when you stop the revolving door. If someone is arrested a second time for criminal activity while on bail then hold them on remand until their trial ends. They can't keep breaking the law if they don't keep getting released to do it again.
True but the Police/criminal justice system has show no intention of doing so, just lots of empty words from the likes of Grant Shapps, they don’t look likely to deal with it either.
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
What the police need to do more of, is deploy (more of) a completely inhumane and terrifying weapon.....
Cups of tea.
Standard procedure when someone fastens themselves to something is to feed them cups of tea. After a while, the attached party becomes interested in being unattached. Rapidly....
I've heard stories that protestors who chained themselves to something, threw the keys away and then abused the police discovered that Constable Savage had lost his bolt cutters at that point.....
I believe the cups of tea and cakes have been tried several times in London already. The Met May be inept At policing but they are not bad at taking protesters order for elevenses.
I remember a story that some US cops were startled by this approach, when observing the Met at work. Then impressed, when an hour or so later (after the reporters had wandered off).....
“WE DECLARE THE M25 A SITE OF NONVIOLENT CIVIL RESISTANCE”
"... on the morning of Wednesday 27th October the M25 will become a place of nonviolent civil resistance to stop our government committing crimes against humanity."
They are doing their cause enormous harm
Arrest them all under the new law and deal with it accordingly
To be fair as far as protests go it’s very effective. Everyone is talking about it.
Who could disagree that insulation is good idea?
` I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
What the police need to do more of, is deploy (more of) a completely inhumane and terrifying weapon.....
Cups of tea.
Standard procedure when someone fastens themselves to something is to feed them cups of tea. After a while, the attached party becomes interested in being unattached. Rapidly....
I've heard stories that protestors who chained themselves to something, threw the keys away and then abused the police discovered that Constable Savage had lost his bolt cutters at that point.....
I believe the cups of tea and cakes have been tried several times in London already. The Met May be inept At policing but they are not bad at taking protesters order for elevenses.
I remember a story that some US cops were startled by this approach, when observing the Met at work. Then impressed, when an hour or so later (after the reporters had wandered off).....
That's fine if someone's chained themselves to some bollards or fencing and people can just walk around them.
Its a different matter when they've glued themselves to the roads that people are trying to drive through.
I hadn't realised the average diesel car carrying four passengers produces less than half the CO2 emissions (per passenger) of the average bus.
That's comparing a full car with an average (ie not full) bus. And the bus makes short journeys with frequent stops and starts, which you are comparing to all car journeys including long distance journeys at a constant speed. It is notable that a coach emits less carbon per passenger km than a full car.
Might be interesting to see what changes people on PB are making to do their bit. Our contributions as follows:
Cutting down on local car journeys - taking bus and cycling where possible Double glazing our house Reducing flights (we already take our summer holidays in the UK, and for obvious reasons haven't flown since 2019) Cycling to work Buying second hand clothes
We already have 100% renewable electricity; I am vegetarian and as a family we only eat beef once a fortnight plus chicken and fish once a fortnight too.
I hadn't realised the average diesel car carrying four passengers produces less than half the CO2 emissions (per passenger) of the average bus.
Yep, be interesting - as usual - to see the detail of the calcs (may well be in the cited source). Is that a bus with an average number of passengers? Or a full bus? Likely very different numbers. The fact that buses do so badly compared to coaches is perhaps due to stopping often/different routes? Similar vehicles otherwise. Was the car compared to a similar journey by bus or using a combined MPG (urban and non urban) for the car?
Comments
If its undermining the cause of environmentalism as people think "these idiots are on another planet" it can undermine the cause.
Rule Breaking * Labour MP = Action
Rule Breaking * Tory MP = No Action
Think this formula covers most scenarios. Corbyn Labour would behave very similarly, previous Tory leaders and the current Labour leader would do it differently.
"all of our tariffs are 100% renewable electricity – which means we will match every unit of electricity you use with a renewable certificate for the same amount.
This matching is done through Ofgem’s REGO (Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin) scheme – the system used by suppliers across the U.K. to verify their claims of the amount of renewable energy supplied."
The government will arrest them all, we will all go back to normal, but people will remember the message.
Its an effective protest.
The suffragettes caused loads of civil disorder and annoyance.
He would likely win again therefore in any by election if he ran again and it would need all other parties to stand down in favour of an Independent to even have a chance to unseat him
I don't know the equivalent figures for Evian, though I'd imagine much higher on both counts, but found out that Volvic bottle just over a billion litres of water every year (pleasingly to me, that's a Wembley Stadium filled to the brim each year), and over 50% of it is sold outside France.
What is it that they actually do to "neutralise" the carbon required to move 500,000 tons of water abroad every year, and that required to make a billion plastic bottles?
Mr. kle4, we believe in learning lessons from all around the world, whether that's using Roman scorpions, French trebuchets, or the Greek fire of the Eastern Romans.
Mr. Gate, the political class right now is drunk on green juice the same way it used to be unified in loving the EU. It won't last. Not when the bills start rolling in for people on average and low salaries and who don't have seven figure bank accounts or the taxpayer funding their lifestyle. Overegging the cake by having a pissing contest to see who can be 'greenest' will only exacerbate the backlash.
It took a while for anti-EU sentiment to get going. That'll be true for this as well, but the itemised financial punishments meted out to consumers will make it a lot more real a lot more rapidly than more conceptual discussions of sovereignty.
You're assuming it is moving the zeitgeist, but most protests are flash in a pan, in and out, or overwhelmed and absorbed by some much larger and more impactful message. People might just remember the loony protest and not the message.
Perhaps not, but you cannot assume the opposite either.
Nobody can hear you bleat about insulation when you're hurtling through the vacuum of space into the heart of the sun.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warwolf
A Trebuchet is a superior siege engine. Two big advantages - scales easily, and hits the same spot repeatedly.
Vote Malmesbury - we recycle *everything*
Although, a century or two ago, a French fellow did find a way to electroplate corpses. I always rather like that idea. Could function here to mitigate the impact.
disrupting others' lives because of their own ignorance.
I think various offences should be available including Aggravated Trespass, some around Harrassment, perhaps Obstruction, and others.
Some of it has an air of, "we did these things to save money and fortunately we get greenkudos for them too!" Which is good in the sense of progress being made, but it does still leave the hard/expensive things to do.
https://www.volvic.com/carbon-neutral/
The higher energy prices are doing far more.
And the IB tits are putting out misinformation about subsidied insulation measures not being available; they are.
Hamilton: 55%-> -17.5% = 37.5%
Paterson: 62%-> -17.5% = 44.5%
Now, obviously the cases aren't the same, in that Hamilton's probably sounded worse to the voters, and there was also the underlying collapse of the Con vote from 92 to 97. But this would be a by-election rather than a GE, so if you like the Tories but you don't like corruption you can send a message without risking government by the dreaded Tony Blair with the demon eyes. IDK, I think I'd favour Paterson to hold on but it feels like it might be a race.
You can electroplate anything. Dip it in lacquer mixed with lots of carbon. Forms a thin film. Then electroplate away.
I got my wife some platinum plated roses for our 10th anniversary.
Also, FWIW, I'm a very long way from convinced that Randox is offering unique testing solutions, which would be the only way in which his claims might have some justification.
However I agree on paper it is possible he could lose if all other parties united behind a well known, whiter than white Independent on a Tatton 1997 style swing
For example, the Government may have been thinking about extra help for insulation but now cannot do so because it would be seen as caving in to Insulate Britain. So counter-productive in that scenario.
The state won't hesitate to use violence against them and we've had repeated violent fantasies about the protestors from the reactionaries on here.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trebuchet
Otherwise you might just wade back to shore.
Same as Boris's mates are "good old boys who have not dotted their I's and crossed their T's" when in reality they are breaking ethics rules in spirit and substance with impunity because of weak leadership.
Included - transportation of bottled water to local distribution sites
Not Included - transportation of bottled water to retailers (far too hard to calculate, apparently)
Given that the transportation that they do count is 30% of carbon footprint, the hole that they're choosing to ignore must be huge.
Are they annoying? Yes.
Do they push it too far? Certainly.
Is it effective? I'm afraid so.
He was one at the heart of the assault on AZ vaccines, and has been blathering on about fishermen, and said quite a bit of crazy (and untrue) stuff wrt submarines such as 'our contract *was* running to time'.
History of UK recalls for anyone interested:
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn05089/
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?time=2021-09-08..latest&facet=none&Metric=Confirmed+cases&Interval=7-day+rolling+average&Relative+to+Population=true&Align+outbreaks=false&country=ITA~CAN~DEU~GBR~FRA~BEL~NLD~ESP~AUS~NZL
Not sure if this has been widely picked up on but several European countries are seeing rises in Covid cases. Belgium is currently has a much steeper rise in cases than we have experienced lately. Netherlands isn't far behind.
Germany looks to be on the increase and they do less than 10% of the testing that we do.
You talk about violent protest but I suspect that’s all it is. What’s stopping you going down to get stuck in if it comes to it.
They have repeatedly, from the top to the bottom, expressed the view that the heath and lives of vulnerable people are expendable because their demonstrations are more important.
That is not non-violent, except in the most cynical terms.
I would disagree that £500bn of public money going into insulation is a good idea.
The comparison with the suffragettes is silly. The suffragettes are far from the first and far from the last version of civil disorder. Most such civil disorder burns out and gets forgotten about, the suffragettes are remembered as they are the exception not the rule.
Though its worth remembering that hundreds and possibly over a thousand of the suffragettes were imprisoned. Hundreds were sent to Holloway alone.
If hundreds of the Insulate Britain terrorists start getting imprisoned then that would start to be comparable.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1452626993355366405?s=20
"We've been telling Labour in Scotland since 2007 – when a certain Nicola Sturgeon won a seat in Glasgow – to wake up and smell the coffee," he said on the BBC's Good Morning Scotland programme.
"The reality is the SNP have stolen the radical clothes of Scottish Labour and Scottish Labour have lost the trust of ordinary working people."
To win back that trust, the former union leader said: "They're going to have to battle really strongly; in my opinion they should support a second referendum on independence, what they actually do when that referendum comes can still be debated."
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19672548.len-mccluskey-tells-anas-sarwar-back-scottish-independence-vote/
I wonder if peltasts (skirmishers who threw javelins/darts, I think) has the same root...
Mr. W, blocking people trying to see dying relatives is pretty damned wretched.
https://www.youtube.com/user/NovaraMedia
I just feel Paterson winds up back to where he is now irrespective of the route taken
They needed to win those in the middle, this will have turned them against so as not to reward their methods
However, at an early stage the contract was a number of years behind schedule, and already 10s of bns over cost. That is well known.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/facebook-knew-radicalized-users-rcna3581
Mr. F, some imbeciles have a fetish for pretending they're heroic types like the Rebel Alliance. This necessitates their opposition being the Empire.
But where does this end. They are fanatics. They won’t be appeased and the police and govt are completely toothless in dealing with them. The party of law and order cannot protect our borders and cannot stop various eco extremists disrupting the M25 with the knock on effects that has on peoples lives and jobs down there.
How does this end now without a major climb down on either of the sides as the authorities have allowed it to get to this stage without nipping it in the bud.
Global EV group sets standards for pricing used batteries
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automobiles/Global-EV-group-sets-standards-for-pricing-used-batteries
Twitter in any case is a more political social media than Facebook and Instagram
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/18/facebook-bans-far-right-groups-including-bnp-edl-and-britain-first
Secondly, IB are a collection of idiots groomed into criminal actions. Suffragettes were far more serious - with quite a spectrum of activists up to and including SHAC types actions.
Still, your party, the party of govt, the party of law and order has been inept in dealing with this as has the police.
I hope other groups do the same. Anti vaxxers, pro refugees, any other Fringe groups looking for publicity.
The govt has shown no spine and allowed it to happen. Let’s have a free for all.
Some things should remain in the realms of fantasy.
Cups of tea.
Standard procedure when someone fastens themselves to something is to feed them cups of tea. After a while, the attached party becomes interested in being unattached. Rapidly....
I've heard stories that protestors who chained themselves to something, threw the keys away and then abused the police discovered that Constable Savage had lost his bolt cutters at that point.....
Mike, if not now, at what point do you think the public should be allowed to demask? When hospitalisations are at half their current levels? When infections are half their current levels? A quarter? No infections at all? Ever?
I appreciate your particular sensitivities about your health, but for most people, the threat is now of a cold. We didn't mask for that in the past.
By default, I'm quite enthusiastic about environmental causes. Pillocks like these make me less sympathetic to their cause.
It only ends when you stop the revolving door. If someone is arrested a second time for criminal activity while on bail then hold them on remand until their trial ends. They can't keep breaking the law if they don't keep getting released to do it again.
Mr. Carnyx, aye, my memory failed me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58171814
I hadn't realised the average diesel car carrying four passengers produces less than half the CO2 emissions (per passenger) of the average bus.
https://solarfoods.fi/our-news/solar-foods-takes-concrete-steps-to-enter-the-market-construction-of-factory-01-begins-set-to-produce-the-worlds-most-sustainable-protein-in-2023/
Solein is a complete protein containing all the essential amino acids. It vanishes into foods and doesn’t change the taste of familiar, everyday food products.
Solein is produced using a bioprocess where microbes are fed with gases (carbon dioxide, hydrogen, and oxygen) and small amounts of nutrients. The bioprocess resembles winemaking, with carbon dioxide and hydrogen replacing sugar as the source of carbon and energy, respectively.
Solein complements the nutritional profile of plant-based food products without the consumer noticing a difference in the final dish. It can be used as a structure-forming ingredient for example in alternative dairy and meat, different snacks and beverages, noodles and pasta, or breads and spreads in replacing meat, dairy, and egg. See more at: https://www.solein.com/foods
The production of Solein is not reliant on agriculture, weather, or climate: it can be produced in harsh conditions such as deserts, Arctic areas, even space. The process does not require agriculture, photosynthetic plants, or animals, making Solein the world’s most sustainable protein.
Solein will become available for commercial use for the first time. It is aimed at food brands looking for nutritious, neutral, functional, and sustainable protein ingredients of consistent quality that can be reliably delivered for their products...
Buses also seem to be exempt from emissions rules, at least round here. You wouldn't want to follow one on a bicycle.
They seem to be an ideal use case for conversion to battery power.
XR and IB?
Its a different matter when they've glued themselves to the roads that people are trying to drive through.
Might be interesting to see what changes people on PB are making to do their bit. Our contributions as follows:
Cutting down on local car journeys - taking bus and cycling where possible
Double glazing our house
Reducing flights (we already take our summer holidays in the UK, and for obvious reasons haven't flown since 2019)
Cycling to work
Buying second hand clothes
We already have 100% renewable electricity; I am vegetarian and as a family we only eat beef once a fortnight plus chicken and fish once a fortnight too.
Still, interesting....
MURLIN is the ultimate design... so far.