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I was too young - a child in fact - to appreciate Labour's internal warring in the early/mid 80s.
Is this what it was like?0 -
We really need to start a #SaveJez campaign, but i don't think anyone wants to.0
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Mr. 63, would you like a concise history of the Eastern Roman Empire?
Edited extra bit: mind you, I'm a bit ropey on the Ottomans. Too modern.
Mr. Slackbladder, Mr. Pulpstar does, for financial purposes.0 -
I hope Rob didn't sell his popcorn shares too early this week...0
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Isabel Hardman
I think I’d prefer the old politics, you know, the one in which a load of MPs spoke bravely about their mental health problems in 2012.0 -
@BBCNormanS: Ken Livingstone has "a closed mind" on Trident and so not suitable for role in Labour defence review says @ChrisLeslieMP0
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@KateEMcCann: Mental health comments "should be treated as seriously as racism or sexism" says Labour shad minister https://t.co/chOfqaaVBt0
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Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.0 -
We have twitter now, makes it much more entertaining.Bob__Sykes said:I was too young - a child in fact - to appreciate Labour's internal warring in the early/mid 80s.
Is this what it was like?0 -
Well I'm writing a thread based on this
Corbyn's leadership, picture the Hindenburg meets Chernobyl meets England's rugby team at the World Cup meets the Battle of Zama meets Tron 20 -
Next appointment.
Polly Toynbee as Budget Surplus Tzar.0 -
Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
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I'm actually looking forward to the reaction of the Corbynista Army when their hero is deposed.Slackbladder said:We really need to start a #SaveJez campaign, but i don't think anyone wants to.
On social media, even good friends and family members sanctify him on a daily basis, consider him a dead cert as next PM, and refuse to countenance that not only will he lose the next GE but that his party WILL have deposed him long before then anyway. It's all "a right wing conspiracy" against him apparently.
It's going to be hilarious when he does go - and if this mob are now a massive part of the Labour membership and activist base, what's to say the next loony from the Left that puts his name forward against the bland non-entity from the "mainstream" won't do what Jezza did?
And do I still get a vote as a paid-up £3 "Tory for Jeremy", or do I have to pay again? :-)0 -
Cameron is simply engaging in the age-old EU game of letting someone else exercise the veto you would have done had push come to shove but which you don't want to exercise for PR reasons. It make a change for it to be the UK in the bad boy's seat.blackburn63 said:
So what do they know that Cameron doesn't?rcs1000 said:0 -
This is all correct and my only comment unfortunately is to berate people for not realising sooner that this is what is going on.Casino_Royale said:
If that does occur, or looks like it is occurring, that should be the trigger for the new parliamentary party to be formed.AlastairMeeks said:
Or:Casino_Royale said:It is simply not tenable for Labour to be led by a leader of the parliamentary party in the House of Commons, where the real political power is exercised, who is opposed by 90% of its members.
So either Corbyn will cease to be their leader in any real sense (in that he actually leads his MPs - instead he will be told by a surrogate leader, or ignored) or a new party will be formed.
The third 'trying to make it work' option is no longer a go'er, but I expect we'll have a lot more fracturing and dishevelling to go before we get there.
What it means, of course, is the effective ending of the Labour Party as an effective political force in the UK. At least in its current form.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12002530/Jeremy-Corbyn-will-purge-Labour-of-troublesome-MPs-without-getting-blood-on-his-hands.html
That, I think, is what the Corbynites are ultimately aiming for.
They will know that (due to the Labour brand and FPTP system) that probably means a slaughtering in GE2020 but they will at least get funding, donors and an alternative national platform for the next few years.
The only other option is to sit there meekly and loudly protest whilst being shot in turn.
They are all however running out of time. They either work out how to remove Corbyn or form an alternative new party.
Frankly, irrespective of if Corbyn needs to renominate himself, someone needs to set the ball rolling and stand against him. If Corbyn wins then its clear there is no future for the so called moderates and they should jump ship.
However why should I care, ever since the election they have ignored my advice. It must be surely be getting boring for everyone. At least there may be betting markets for all you punters.0 -
Mr. Royale, quite.
Mr. Eagles, for the sake of the UK, and Labour, let us hope Corbyn doesn't trample all over the left for a decade and more, destroying the right time and time again.0 -
IIRC nothing happened to Ken after he compared a Jewish LS journalist to a Nazi concentration camp guard either.
He does as he likes, and tells everyone he offends to get a life. Whilst not keen on victim-card playing, I think he goes far too far at specific people with a dog in that fight of words.Scott_P said:@KateEMcCann: Mental health comments "should be treated as seriously as racism or sexism" says Labour shad minister https://t.co/chOfqaaVBt
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Turkey needs to be treated for what it is, an ally and next door neighbour. It is vital that the country remain stable for all our sakes. If it needs cash or other help to combat islamic terrorism, it should most certainly get it.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
But this does not mean it has to be part of the EU.0 -
Months? There are four and a half years to the election. WWI didn't last that long.oxfordsimon said:
There is going to be months more of this.CD13 said:It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?
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Spot on.Pulpstar said:
Turkey needs to be treated for what it is, an ally and next door neighbour. It is vital that the country remain stable for all our sakes. If it needs cash or other help to combat islamic terrorism, it should most certainly get it.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
But this does not mean it has to be part of the EU.0 -
@MrHarryCole: George Galloway: "the witch-hunt turns on Ken Livingstone. Tooth by tooth claw by claw they are trying to defang JC. I defend Ken. "0
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Milne is unable to control Labour's narratives, another day, another foul up by Corbyn's team.
I have an email from Ken in London about cuts in mental health.0 -
Why on earth do you Kippers not seem to understand that, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them 'duplicitous'?blackburn63 said:Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.
On this particular issue, I happen to disagree with Cameron on Turkey's application to join the EU, but he's most certainly right to say that Turkey is "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy". You don't seriously disagree with that, do you? Or are you so blinded by irrational anti-Cameron prejudice that you can't even accept simple statements like that, which no serious observer would disagree with?0 -
@steve_hawkes: Imagine the meltdown at Momentum as they try to catch up with all the Labour MPs lining up to attack Ken0
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Spot onCasino_Royale said:
Spot on.Pulpstar said:
Turkey needs to be treated for what it is, an ally and next door neighbour. It is vital that the country remain stable for all our sakes. If it needs cash or other help to combat islamic terrorism, it should most certainly get it.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
But this does not mean it has to be part of the EU.
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What a nice chap you are.notme said:
Jesus. Is everyone a f***ing victim now? "ive got depression you cant see mean things about me" "Im transgender, i am beautiful and empowering".Slackbladder said:Craig Woodhouse @craigawoodhouse 1 min1 minute ago
Livingstone refuses to apologise FOUR times on LBC re Kevan Jones comments. "He was rude about me, I was rude back..he needs to get over it"
Charmer...
Im with Ken, grow the f**k up.... Of course i would have more sympathy if Ken wasnt at the vanguard of identity politics and grievance feeding for his entire political life.0 -
I think he's still an asset to the Conservative Party - however, I will criticise him when I think he gets it badly wrong.blackburn63 said:
Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
That's generally on the EU and domestic social policy.0 -
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Ken Livingstone just appears from here to be nothing more or less than a common bully. His position within Labour is up to him, the NEC and Corbyn to decide... and it should certainly not be illegal what he's said - but it does reveal the inner shit of his character.0
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More Loyalist lies.TGOHF said:So if the Nats white paper was known to be fibs by the writers, will the LDs be launching 56 suits against them as this clearly swayed the GE results in Scotland ?
Alex Bell had no involvement in the White Paper.
He hasn't been involved with the SNP for over 4 years.0 -
Remember the old
'No civil war in the labour party' line
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Good.blackburn63 said:
Turkey's making no progress towards meeting the requirements of membership, so talks can only help in slowing or stopping them from drifting in directions that might be bad for all of us.0 -
But it was the peaceniks that removed him, all cheered on and wound up by Brown. Corbyn is the peacenik.TheScreamingEagles said:
Look Labour removed three time election winner Blair, surely they'll do the same to a loser like Corbyn?AlastairMeeks said:
What are they going to do? Scrunch up sheets of paper and hurl them angrily into the wastepaper basket?Scott_P said:@JGForsyth: Think patience of moderate Labour MPs on the front bench is going to snap very soon, Ken is adding personal unpleasantness to loony leftery
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And police and armed forces cuts, and the ridiculous amount spent on foreign aid.Casino_Royale said:
I think he's still an asset to the Conservative Party - however, I will criticise him when I think he gets it badly wrong.blackburn63 said:
Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
That's generally on the EU and domestic social policy.
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@JoeMurphyLondon: POLL - Britain is split 50% for and 50% against air strikes in Syria, finds @BMGResearch for @EveningStandard. Story & results up soon.0
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I do pay attention to politics each day but cannot do this for 16 hours a day which is what is required to keep up with the latest acts of political madness that Corbyn's Labour party are indulging in. I have "run out of popcorn".TOPPING said:
surely there is a PB competition here to see who can come up with the most bizarre next appointment/move by Jezza.CD13 said:It's been a bad week for Jezza, but surely he must bottom out soon?
Ofc prior to today 20% of entries would have involved Ken..
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@charlielindlar: Condemning Ken:
- Corbyn
- Shadow mental health min Luciana Berger
- Literally all Labour MPs
Defending Ken:
- Himself
- George Galloway0 -
I can say unequivocally that Turkey is not vital for our economy, to pretend it is is to be duplicitous.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth do you Kippers not seem to understand that, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them 'duplicitous'?blackburn63 said:Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.
On this particular issue, I happen to disagree with Cameron on Turkey's application to join the EU, but he's most certainly right to say that Turkey is "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy". You don't seriously disagree with that, do you? Or are you so blinded by irrational anti-Cameron prejudice that you can't even accept simple statements like that, which no serious observer would disagree with?0 -
I think it's time to call a PB Tories 4 Corbyn extraordinary conference.
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@JoeMurphyLondon: @BMGResearch poll fieldwork reveals opinion has shifted TOWARDS air strikes (from 50-50 to 52-48) in days since Friday's attacks in Paris0
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I never thought I would feel sorry for Ms Eagles... and to be honest I don't. Serves her right.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: PMQs shortly - Corbyn already having a tough day, if he was looking for a way of winding MPs up, giving Ken L defence job was certainly it
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Broker kept saying "tipping point"... shouldn't have listened to a word he said!!Scrapheap_as_was said:I hope Rob didn't sell his popcorn shares too early this week...
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We'll soon have enough spots for a Dalmation at this rate!blackburn63 said:
Spot onCasino_Royale said:
Spot on.Pulpstar said:
Turkey needs to be treated for what it is, an ally and next door neighbour. It is vital that the country remain stable for all our sakes. If it needs cash or other help to combat islamic terrorism, it should most certainly get it.Casino_Royale said:
Totally stupid. Has he just bought the Foreign Office view hook, line and sinker?blackburn63 said:
Just listen to this vacuous empty rhetoric:
"(He said) the country was "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy".
A European Union without Turkey at its heart was “not stronger but weaker... not more secure but less... not richer but poorer”."
If that's true - that it's 'vital', meaning essential to life and essential to the continued existence of life - then how on earth is the UK surviving without Turkey in the EU?
This is totally meaningless bullshit. Heir to Blair stuff.
But this does not mean it has to be part of the EU.0 -
Ah, I see now. You don't know the meaning the word 'duplicitous'. You think it means 'mistaken'. That explains a lot.blackburn63 said:I can say unequivocally that Turkey is not vital for our economy, to pretend it is is to be duplicitous.
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Here are the 15 MPs on the order paper for #PMQs - others will try to catch the Speaker's eye https://t.co/qK22dCAOif0
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Vital for me personally, actually.blackburn63 said:
I can say unequivocally that Turkey is not vital for our economy, to pretend it is is to be duplicitous.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth do you Kippers not seem to understand that, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them 'duplicitous'?blackburn63 said:Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.
On this particular issue, I happen to disagree with Cameron on Turkey's application to join the EU, but he's most certainly right to say that Turkey is "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy". You don't seriously disagree with that, do you? Or are you so blinded by irrational anti-Cameron prejudice that you can't even accept simple statements like that, which no serious observer would disagree with?0 -
Margin of error stuff, that!TheScreamingEagles said:@JoeMurphyLondon: @BMGResearch poll fieldwork reveals opinion has shifted TOWARDS air strikes (from 50-50 to 52-48) in days since Friday's attacks in Paris
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Yeah, just the 18th largest economy in the world. Not important at all in the Kipper worldview.Pulpstar said:
Vital for me personally, actually.blackburn63 said:
I can say unequivocally that Turkey is not vital for our economy, to pretend it is is to be duplicitous.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth do you Kippers not seem to understand that, just because someone disagrees with you, that doesn't make them 'duplicitous'?blackburn63 said:Spot on, I will continue to point out how utterly duplicitous the man is.
On this particular issue, I happen to disagree with Cameron on Turkey's application to join the EU, but he's most certainly right to say that Turkey is "vital for our economy, vital for our security and vital for our diplomacy". You don't seriously disagree with that, do you? Or are you so blinded by irrational anti-Cameron prejudice that you can't even accept simple statements like that, which no serious observer would disagree with?0 -
OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?Richard_Nabavi said:
Ah, I see now. You don't know the meaning the word 'duplicitous'. You think it means 'mistaken'. That explains a lot.blackburn63 said:I can say unequivocally that Turkey is not vital for our economy, to pretend it is is to be duplicitous.
Yes or no will suffice.
Incidentally, duplicitous means deceitful, pre election Nigel used "wilfully dishonest", either will do.
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Have there been 902146 questions to the PM since it began?Plato_Says said:Here are the 15 MPs on the order paper for #PMQs - others will try to catch the Speaker's eye https://t.co/qK22dCAOif
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@daily_politics: On #bbcdp, shadow energy secretary @lisanandy gives her reaction to Ken Livingstone's comments on @KevanJonesMP https://t.co/SD9CGdgKrx0
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@cameronbrownuk: Labour Press Office right now https://t.co/aAq7fSTmXb0
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Those kind of 'ah I see, you are just not as clever as me' posts should be flawless themselves or they fail to hit home IMORichard_Nabavi said:
Ah, I see now. You don't know the meaning the word 'duplicitous'. You think it means 'mistaken'. That explains a lot.blackburn63 said:I can say unequivocally that Turkey is not vital for our economy, to pretend it is is to be duplicitous.
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Yeah, I agree with that.Pulpstar said:Ken Livingstone just appears from here to be nothing more or less than a common bully. His position within Labour is up to him, the NEC and Corbyn to decide... and it should certainly not be illegal what he's said - but it does reveal the inner shit of his character.
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Pulpstar
"Blimey, anyone else heard the response to the request for 1 minute silence in the Turkish football match ?!
What an utter disgrace"
In the same way most on here don't consider Turkey to be part of 'our' Europe most of them don't either. I'm sure if the minute's silence had just been for the dead in Lebanon it would have been kept.
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How many got a straight answer?RobD said:
Have there been 902146 questions to the PM since it began?Plato_Says said:Here are the 15 MPs on the order paper for #PMQs - others will try to catch the Speaker's eye https://t.co/qK22dCAOif
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Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.blackburn63 said:
OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?
It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.0 -
How many did Blair attempt to answer?OldKingCole said:
How many got a straight answer?RobD said:
Have there been 902146 questions to the PM since it began?Plato_Says said:Here are the 15 MPs on the order paper for #PMQs - others will try to catch the Speaker's eye https://t.co/qK22dCAOif
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0
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Laura looking quite foxy on DP.0
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Ruth is lying and you know it.CarlottaVance said:
As Ruth says:DavidL said:Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
She has absolutely no interest in providing a reasonable and accurate view on Scotlands future, and her lies are why she continues to sit on 12% and needed to switch Consolation List to have a decent chance of staying in Holyrood.
Nothing has changed about the utter one sided nature of the current Scottish Fiscal Position. Scotland continues to subsidise England to the tune of about £12bn a year and Scotland will continue to benefit from oil when prices are high and less when prices are low.
There is no likelihood of the current oil price continuing in the long term, we know exactly how the oil price has moved over the years and it will, within the next 3 years be well above the $113 expectation in the White Paper.
But the problem the Loyalists need to face - and can't - is that the Scottish public are more aware and have a greater understanding of the situation than you would normally expect from an electorate. Yes, there were 55% of the population who were stupid and voted No, hurting their own childrens economic future.
But teh 45% who voted yes are ROCK SOLID Yes. Their minds aren't changing while every day more No voters wake up, realise how stupid they have been, and make their mind up that it needs to be Yes and Yes soon.0 -
Forgotten Milne was Corbyn’s new spinmeister – he’s certainly going to have his work cut out if today's episode is anything to go by.dr_spyn said:Milne is unable to control Labour's narratives, another day, another foul up by Corbyn's team.
I have an email from Ken in London about cuts in mental health.0 -
Remember Kippers from Farage downwards would prefer to see us poorer than remain in the EU.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.blackburn63 said:
OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?
It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.
So the Kipper definition of vital to the economy will be different to others.0 -
That'll help.Scott_P said:@theousherwood: George Galloway on LBC now to defend Ken.
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@BenjaminRamm: Galloway on @LBC: Kevan Jones "not fit to tie" the "bootlaces" of Ken Livingstone.0
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note that he is 'on leave' from guardian. cant be too convinced it will last.SimonStClare said:
Forgotten Milne was Corbyn’s new spinmeister – he’s certainly going to have his work cut out if today's episode is anything to go by.dr_spyn said:Milne is unable to control Labour's narratives, another day, another foul up by Corbyn's team.
I have an email from Ken in London about cuts in mental health.0 -
IMHO it's runusual for any PM to give a straight answer, unless the question is from their own side!. In fairness, both PM and the questioner are trying to make some sort of political point, which is more important, often, than the question itself.RobD said:
How many did Blair attempt to answer?OldKingCole said:
How many got a straight answer?RobD said:
Have there been 902146 questions to the PM since it began?Plato_Says said:Here are the 15 MPs on the order paper for #PMQs - others will try to catch the Speaker's eye https://t.co/qK22dCAOif
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Delusional indeed.Dair said:
Ruth is lying and you know it.CarlottaVance said:
As Ruth says:DavidL said:Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
She has absolutely no interest in providing a reasonable and accurate view on Scotlands future, and her lies are why she continues to sit on 12% and needed to switch Consolation List to have a decent chance of staying in Holyrood.
Nothing has changed about the utter one sided nature of the current Scottish Fiscal Position. Scotland continues to subsidise England to the tune of about £12bn a year and Scotland will continue to benefit from oil when prices are high and less when prices are low.
There is no likelihood of the current oil price continuing in the long term, we know exactly how the oil price has moved over the years and it will, within the next 3 years be well above the $113 expectation in the White Paper.
But the problem the Loyalists need to face - and can't - is that the Scottish public are more aware and have a greater understanding of the situation than you would normally expect from an electorate. Yes, there were 55% of the population who were stupid and voted No, hurting their own childrens economic future.
But teh 45% who voted yes are ROCK SOLID Yes. Their minds aren't changing while every day more No voters wake up, realise how stupid they have been, and make their mind up that it needs to be Yes and Yes soon.0 -
Well dodged, the definition of duplicitous is deceitful, I'm happy to say that claiming Turkey is vital to our economy is deceitful.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.blackburn63 said:
OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?
It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.
I suspect you know that's true but will defend Cameron at any cost, while bizarrely referring to psychological phenomenon.
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I thought they wanted to be able to trade more easily with fast-growing, non- EU countries. Like, err, Turkey.TheScreamingEagles said:
Remember Kippers from Farage downwards would prefer to see us poorer than remain in the EU.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.blackburn63 said:
OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?
It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.
So the Kipper definition of vital to the economy will be different to others.0 -
Update, 11.43am: A spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn writes:
“Jeremy is incredibly concerned that people with mental health problems shouldn’t be stigmatised. He has worked with Kevan in the past on this issue and is impressed by his bravery in speaking out on his own mental health issues. Ken should apologise to him straight away.”
Update, 12.03pm: Ken Livingstone has refused to apologise for his comments, when asked about them on LBC:
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/ken-livingstones-mental-health-slur-is-more-of-a-problem-than-his-views-on-trident/
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@greenmiranda: So @bbclaurak points out Labour MPs starting to argue they have a mandate of 9m voters v Corbyn's of members only. Fightback starts. #bbcdp0
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That's completely correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Remember Kippers from Farage downwards would prefer to see us poorer than remain in the EU.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.blackburn63 said:
OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?
It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.
So the Kipper definition of vital to the economy will be different to others.
If the rich are getting richer at the expense of the poor, it is bad for the country, even if the average wealth improved0 -
Corbyn stands up amid some laughter.0
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It seems that George Galloway is making himself a buttress of the Labour party leadership (not a pillar, because he is supporting it from the outside).
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It would take years and years for Turkey to meet standards that are demanded of EU countries. One of my fears of Europe fragmenting is that theses standards will be ignored in the persuit of the fast buck. The working conditions for Turks are so far away from those in the EU that even from their point of view getting to an EU level would bankrupt them.0
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The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.Dair said:
Ruth is lying and you know it..CarlottaVance said:
As Ruth says:DavidL said:Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up0 -
Is Jezza developing a twitch?0
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Belgian TV station BFMTV is reporting that the female in the raided flat who blew herself up was the cousin of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the alleged mastermind of the Paris attacks who had been targeted in this raid.
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I've already said I disagree with Cameron on the substantive issue, which is not his uncontroversial statement about the importance of Turkey, but on whether it should be allowed to join the EU. Unlike you, I can tell the difference between a view I disagree with, and a lie. I've no idea why you can't tell the difference, but you're not the only Kipper on here who exhibits this very odd characteristic.blackburn63 said:Well dodged, the definition of duplicitous is deceitful, I'm happy to say that claiming Turkey is vital to our economy is deceitful.
I suspect you know that's true but will defend Cameron at any cost, while bizarrely referring to psychological phenomenon.0 -
Idyingswan said:I am pleased to announce a new twitter campaign. It will be called Don't Unseat Corbyn Early, hashtag DUCE. The hashtag will,of course,be pronounced in the Italian way.Subscriptions will be £3. Our purpose is to celebrate and support our beloved leader to whom we cry : Duce,sei tutti noi. Leader you are all of us.
I think we're rapidly heading for the public hanging in a Milan square...........
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Where are today's questions from Doris of Worthing, and Tariq in Luton?0
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muted to say the least from lab benches0
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Is Chris Grayling the new 'Uncle' Norman Tebbit?0
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Turkey is certainly an important country from a security aspect, but it took 1.2% of UK goods exports last year which I don't think quite qualifies as 'vital' to the economy.0
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@kevverage: I asked 120 Scots business leaders: who believes the SNP White Paper makes a credible economic case for Indy?CarlottaVance said:The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
3 hands went up
#indyref0 -
@IanDunt: Donations to Ukip have collapsed: £2,203,921 in Q2
down to just £49,334 in Q3
https://t.co/idI5Ocog0i0 -
so far (Q3) Jezza trying to (re)gain some statesmanship0
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And failingTOPPING said:so far (Q3) Jezza trying to (re)gain some statesmanship
Nothing he says sounds sincere. He is trying to appear to be something that he knows he isn't0 -
What is it about male socialists and their misogynistic tendencies?
Ms Eagle loses control of the Trident review when Ken Livingstone (a bloke) is placed in joint charge of the Trident Review. Does Corbyn not trust the little woman?0 -
Jezza doing well. And makes a good joke on the hoof.0
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Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.
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Well quite !Roger said:It would take years and years for Turkey to meet standards that are demanded of EU countries. One of my fears of Europe fragmenting is that theses standards will be ignored in the persuit of the fast buck. The working conditions for Turks are so far away from those in the EU that even from their point of view getting to an EU level would bankrupt them.
Why does Turkey need to be in the EU anyway ?
Losing control of their own currency coupled with the inevitable "hot" money that would flow from EU grants would lead to a big uptick initially in GDP - but obviously these things have an equilibrium in the long term/round and it'd all come crashing down worse than Greece in the next inevitable downturn.0 -
Certainly the security and geo-political aspect is much more important that the economic aspect, no-one would disagree with that.runnymede said:Turkey is certainly an important country from a security aspect, but it took 1.2% of UK goods exports last year which I don't think quite qualifies as 'vital' to the economy.
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What I disapprove of is the PM telling lies, the fact you feel moved to defend him is peculiar. Cameron wants Turkey to join the EU and lied about its importance to our economy.Richard_Nabavi said:
I've already said I disagree with Cameron on the substantive issue, which is not his uncontroversial statement about the importance of Turkey, but on whether it should be allowed to join the EU. Unlike you, I can tell the difference between a view I disagree with, and a lie. I've no idea why you can't tell the difference, but you're not the only Kipper on here who exhibits this very odd characteristic.blackburn63 said:Well dodged, the definition of duplicitous is deceitful, I'm happy to say that claiming Turkey is vital to our economy is deceitful.
I suspect you know that's true but will defend Cameron at any cost, while bizarrely referring to psychological phenomenon.
But but but but it's a Ukip supporter making the allegation, ignore him, he's a fruitcake with odd characteristics.
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well he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.oxfordsimon said:
And failingTOPPING said:so far (Q3) Jezza trying to (re)gain some statesmanship
Nothing he says sounds sincere. He is trying to appear to be something that he knows he isn't
If I was a Lab supporter I would be happier vs previous weeks.
Is it a new dawn? We shall see. Obviously there is a lot of clearing out of the stables to be done...0 -
And so it begins, again0
This discussion has been closed.