It has nothing to do with delusion and everything about honesty.
For example, your own position would be far better if you were honest and simply admitted your refusal to back Scotland is entirely based on your current position and that you have been reasonably successful thanks to your hard work/luck/family connections and do not wish to accept any risk to your position (no matter how small) and feel in a good enough position to guarantee your children's own success on the base of your own wealth and contacts. That's a perfectly understandable and honest position.
But you don't want to be honest, the Loyalist cause is filled with lies and nonsense designed to obfuscate and frighten. We know the position of a colonial power to its satellites, the wealth and power flows from the outside to the centre, in our case London and nothing changes this.
No matter how poor the satellite gets (as in the case of Wales) the centre keeps pulling wealth and talent out of the satellite to the centre.
The good part is that enough people have seen past the lies and fear, with open eyes they understand just how one sided the Scottish position is within the Union, how detrimental the Union is to Scotland's future and how nothing about the United Kingdom can change enough to stop the negative far outweighing the tenuous positives.
Turkey is certainly an important country from a security aspect, but it took 1.2% of UK goods exports last year which I don't think quite qualifies as 'vital' to the economy.
Certainly the security and geo-political aspect is much more important that the economic aspect, no-one would disagree with that.
The biggest threat to the econimic activity/growth potential IS the security aspect
Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.
It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.
Remember Kippers from Farage downwards would prefer to see us poorer than remain in the EU.
So the Kipper definition of vital to the economy will be different to others.
I thought they wanted to be able to trade more easily with fast-growing, non- EU countries. Like, err, Turkey.
Correct, there was no need for Cameron to lie, even less need for you to back it up. By definition, supporting a liar brings one's integrity into question.
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it..
The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
Someone associated with Independence over 4 years ago might have a different view to the SNP. Shocking. One person's difference of opinion surely undermines everything.
What I disapprove of is the PM telling lies, the fact you feel moved to defend him is peculiar. Cameron wants Turkey to join the EU and lied about its importance to our economy.
Why don't you just say he 'overstated' its importance? That's what any normal person would say if they were making the point you are making.
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it.
She has absolutely no interest in providing a reasonable and accurate view on Scotlands future, and her lies are why she continues to sit on 12% and needed to switch Consolation List to have a decent chance of staying in Holyrood.
Nothing has changed about the utter one sided nature of the current Scottish Fiscal Position. Scotland continues to subsidise England to the tune of about £12bn a year and Scotland will continue to benefit from oil when prices are high and less when prices are low.
There is no likelihood of the current oil price continuing in the long term, we know exactly how the oil price has moved over the years and it will, within the next 3 years be well above the $113 expectation in the White Paper.
But the problem the Loyalists need to face - and can't - is that the Scottish public are more aware and have a greater understanding of the situation than you would normally expect from an electorate. Yes, there were 55% of the population who were stupid and voted No, hurting their own childrens economic future.
But teh 45% who voted yes are ROCK SOLID Yes. Their minds aren't changing while every day more No voters wake up, realise how stupid they have been, and make their mind up that it needs to be Yes and Yes soon.
Re oil: I'm sorry, wishing it to be the case doesn't make it so.
Remember natural gas in the US. It was $13/mcf and that stimulated fracking.
The price then fell to $4, and the consensus was "shale gas requires $8 to be profitable. therefore, the price will rapidly recover to at least $8."
The price of natural gas is now - what - $2 in the US.
If you believe the price of oil will be well above $113 in the next three years, can I suggest you sell your house and buy 2018 oil futures. For WTI they are current currently at $53.
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it..
The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
Someone associated with Independence over 4 years ago might have a different view to the SNP. Shocking. One person's difference of opinion surely undermines everything.
Oh wait...
Though you said everyone who voted yes was ROCK SOLID yes?
Titters.... he doesn't sound that solid in his piece
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 4m4 minutes ago Cameron has had opportunity to take Corbyn's head off on security. Hasn't done it. Tories really do have strategy of trying to protect him.
Now out of date as Cameron goes on to attack over shoot-to-kill
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it..
The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
A Jockanese-Clown says that "...the UK will launch independent air-attacks on Syria...." How shyte is Scotland's media: We are 'Johnnie-come-latelies"; we are procrastanating due to 'bennie-monkies'...?
What I disapprove of is the PM telling lies, the fact you feel moved to defend him is peculiar. Cameron wants Turkey to join the EU and lied about its importance to our economy.
Why don't you just say he 'overstated' its importance? That's what any normal person would say if they were making the point you are making.
Because he lied, I understand that's difficult for you to accept, but its a fact nonetheless.
Your tribalism is both embarrassing and unbecoming, it means that when you have a substantial case to make it will be weakened by your propensity to defend Cameron in any circumstances.
There is a story about an emperor who had some new clothes, look it up.
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it..
The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
Someone associated with Independence over 4 years ago might have a different view to the SNP. Shocking. One person's difference of opinion surely undermines everything.
Oh wait...
Though you said everyone who voted yes was ROCK SOLID yes?
Titters.... he doesn't sound that solid in his piece
Bell is calling for a tactical change from the SNP on how it sells Independence, he wants a Line by Line approach to finances to replace the White Paper argument based on macro figures.
He still supports Independence.
But then, if all you read are Loyalist lies from Ruth and co, it's understandable that you might miss that
Angus really needs a word limit on his questions - I forget the point he was making after 150 words.
@PolhomeEditor: Given how badly wrong the pollsters got the general election result, it's odd that Angus Robertson should let them set UK foreign policy.
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it..
The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
Someone associated with Independence over 4 years ago might have a different view to the SNP. Shocking. One person's difference of opinion surely undermines everything.
Oh wait...
Though you said everyone who voted yes was ROCK SOLID yes?
Titters.... he doesn't sound that solid in his piece
He still supports Independence.
And he describes your, and the SNP's prospectus as 'deluded'.....
It would take years and years for Turkey to meet standards that are demanded of EU countries. One of my fears of Europe fragmenting is that theses standards will be ignored in the persuit of the fast buck. The working conditions for Turks are so far away from those in the EU that even from their point of view getting to an EU level would bankrupt them.
Ben Farmer writes: A British destroyer will provide air defence cover for the French carrier Charles de Gaulle fighting against Isil, the Navy has said.
HMS Defender, one of Britain's advanced Type-45 air defence destroyers, will accompany the French carrier to protect it from air or missile attack.
Mr. Royale, it was said earlier in the thread that the NEC are looking to tighten this up so that it's clear the incumbent is automatically on the ballot.
So we're left with three options: (1) orchestrate a mass resignation of the Labour frontbench and make leading the Labour Party so impossible or unpleasant for Corbyn that he's forced to resign (2) Split away in mass block in parliament and form a new party (3) spend the next four years continuing to grumble, shout and moan, with increasing indignation, leaking to the media, and publicly disagreeing with him, and hope he just goes away and the Labour members change their minds about him.
No bets being accepted by me on which one Labour MPs will pick.
What they're more likely to do is to wait until he loses an election, _then_ orchestrate a mass resignation etc etc. The Westminster MPs are lucky that Corbyn's effectiveness at winning over the kind of elderly, conservatory-focused people who do most of the voting in Britain is going to be tested on Welsh Assembly members and Euro MEPs before it gets tried on them.
Your tribalism is both embarrassing and unbecoming, it means that when you have a substantial case to make it will be weakened by your propensity to defend Cameron in any circumstances.
Thank you for your concern, but I don't do tribalism and I shall continue to say what I think, as I always do.
With humour, unless you're going for a Sir Humphrey monologue, it's usually the case that the fewest words have greatest impact. Similarly for political statements (veni, vidi, vici, or we shall fight them on the beaches etc).
Banging on for ages is for people wanting to obfuscate, and for people who are more interested in their own voice than the answer.
PMQs - Snap verdict: It took a while for Cameron to deliver the decisive blow, but he got there right at the end, with his well-polished “Kalashnikov-wielding terrorist” line. It was a tad unfair (because we can presume that in these circumstances Corbyn does approve of the trigger being pulled), but the Labour leader has only himself to blame because of hopeless woolliness of his response to a question on this in his BBC interview on Monday.
Alex Bell, who quit as head of Alex Salmond's policy unit in July after two years working on his independence strategy, said the first minister was failing to present a radical, daring vision for Scotland and so was facing defeat in next year's referendum.
Knowing that their financial case was "wishful" makes posters like this some of the most dishonest ever used by a mainstream party in the UK.
As Ruth says:
THERE is a principled case for Scottish independence.
I respect those who believe in it, even if I fundamentally and passionately disagree with them.
For many, the goal of independence is worth paying any price. It is an honest position.
And as SO pointed out many times during SINDYRef the SNP were prepared to lie fearlessly to win their case - they only had to win it once.
Ruth is lying and you know it..
The idea that you could have a Scotland with high public spending, low taxes, a stable economy and reasonable government debt was wishful a year ago – now it is deluded.
Someone associated with Independence over 4 years ago might have a different view to the SNP. Shocking. One person's difference of opinion surely undermines everything.
Oh wait...
Though you said everyone who voted yes was ROCK SOLID yes?
Titters.... he doesn't sound that solid in his piece
He still supports Independence.
And he describes your, and the SNP's prospectus as 'deluded'.....
One minute the zoomers are complaining that supporters of Independence are all mindless SNP drones.
Now their complaining because some supporters of Independence have different points of view.
Lol, make up your mind. You'd think with the typical Loyalist's low IQ, that wouldn't take long.
Those YouGov numbers have shifted A LOT - 22pt rise [to 49%] in those who want fewer or no refugees here, 16pt fall [to 20%] in those who think we should take more refugees.
Of course the Liberal Left are ignoring the fact that most polls on the 'refugee' issue have shown very clear support for the Cameron approach.
It's depressing to see use of idiotic Fox News terms like "liberal left" spreading here.
Nerve hit. Good.
Yes, it is pleasing to see "liberal left" entering our lexicon as a pejorative. It's a nice catch-all phrase for these vain, feeble, whining, bien pensant scumbags.
We surely need to call them "mal pensant" now.......
This is utterly hateful. Mr Livingstone he hasn’t just grotesquely insulted Mr Jones, denigrating his suffering and his bravery, he has sent a brutal message to anyone else who suffers mental illness: stay quiet or you’re fair game.
Alex Bell, who quit as head of Alex Salmond's policy unit in July after two years working on his independence strategy, said the first minister was failing to present a radical, daring vision for Scotland and so was facing defeat in next year's referendum.
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
A government elected on an independence platform makes a virtue of saying it is putting no effort into researching independence. Instead of this being taken as a terrible admission of failure, it is hailed as proof that no new referendum is imminent. The core policy, one with huge implications for every citizen of the land, is proudly not worked upon. It’s like the Labour government of 1945 boasting it knows nothing about how to set up a National Health Service.
Even more bizarre, SNP supporters approve of this. Where once the movement decried the un-examined state, now it colludes in obscuring the facts. For many decades the party called for Scotland to have an independent economic forecasting unit. Now it is in power it actively talks down the value of impartial macro-economic research. Similarly, the SNP of a few years ago would have killed for a fiscal institute shedding light on our tax base , but the Scottish Government resists cries for such a thing. And the party faithful applaud, as if information itself were now an enemy of destiny.
As a Unionist I have far more to fear from the analysis of Alex Bell than the (frankly rather pathetic) tub-thumping bellicosity of some 'macho' (sic) posters on here....
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
I know, and I know he's a rough-and-tumble type himself, so probably won't bleat about being offended.
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
I read Ms Eagle learnt of Ken’s appointment as co-chair on social media. – Jeremy couldn’t even tell her face to face. – hmmm, I can sympathise with that.
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
I know, and I know he's a rough-and-tumble type himself, so probably won't bleat about being offended.
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
I know, and I know he's a rough-and-tumble type himself, so probably won't bleat about being offended.
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
What's wrong with these people?!!
It's unbelievable. It's like mocking someone for having cancer.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
Are the moderates going to do anything? no. That is what is so delicious. It isn;t just the left of labour that is being exposed. Its the jellyfish right of the party.
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
I know, and I know he's a rough-and-tumble type himself, so probably won't bleat about being offended.
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
What's wrong with these people?!!
It's unbelievable. It's like mocking someone for having cancer.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
I thought the Tories were "the nasty Party".. I can't recall anything quite like this (but my memory is degrading as my circuits fail)
@paulwaugh: Just asked source close to J Corbyn if an apology wd be enough. Reply: "Jeremy is angered by what was said. Jeremy will be talking to Ken".
Invite him round for a nice cup of tea before not sacking him
SLAB are starting to fight it out for the list seats.
It might be illegal to bribe the electorate to win a seat. But it seems perfectly acceptable to bribe the party electorate in order to become a candidate.
In the blink of an eye, three of the most pro terrorist, pro Islam, anti British politicians in the country are heading up the opposition, while we are in more danger than ever before from Britain hating Islamic terrorism... it is quite incredible.
I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
Are the moderates going to do anything? no. That is what is so delicious. It isn;t just the left of labour that is being exposed. Its the jellyfish right of the party.
An interesting dilemma for Labour ... do they oppose Jezza when he talks about security and tried to lose even the most committed supporter, or do they shout him down and look like a divided party? I suspect the latter is less damaging.
The best option may be a shoot to kill policy on Jezza.
It seems to me that there was a certain degree of coordination in yesterday's questions designed to undermine Jezza. I think they're probably waiting for a trigger event to attempt a coup. Could be the Syria vote, or losing Oldham, but after yesterday I do think the end is likely to come quite soon. Certainly hope so.
What route do you see to the end? If Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to go, how are his opponents going to make him? If he's directly challenged by the Parliamentary Labour Party, he'd explicitly run against them and in all probability win. If they try to exclude him from the ballot paper 1) they may not be able to 2) even if they're able to he may in practice get the necessary number of nominations 3) if they succeed in excluding him, the membership will correctly see this as a contempt for democracy.
I'm not sure the parliamentary party care too much if the Labour membership see such a move as contempt for democracy. They mass nominated Gordon Brown to the exclusion of all others, and imposed him as PM on the rest of us without any vote whatsoever.
The key thing is excluding him from the ballot paper.
Could Corbyn find 35 MPs to nominate him again, or just be stuck at his fan club of 20-25?
Michael Howard was imposed on Tory members without a vote by MPs after IDS
After IDS resigned. Correct me if I am wrong, this is supposed to be a betting site for experts on politics isn't it?
Wrong, IDS did not resign he lost a vote of No confidence amongst Tory MPs. Even though he won 60% of Tory members votes in 2001 the Tory Party did not split apart when Michael Howard replaced him though a few members went to UKIP
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
I know, and I know he's a rough-and-tumble type himself, so probably won't bleat about being offended.
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
What's wrong with these people?!!
It's unbelievable. It's like mocking someone for having cancer.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
If it were a tory saying that, the Guardian would have had 4 opinion pieces on it already.
Taking the piss out of mental illness doesn't offend me that much and I doubt it offends Kevan Jones that much, but it is such BAD POLITICS and plain stupidity from Ken Livingstone.
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
I know, and I know he's a rough-and-tumble type himself, so probably won't bleat about being offended.
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
What's wrong with these people?!!
It's unbelievable. It's like mocking someone for having cancer.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
If it were a tory saying that, the Guardian would have had 4 opinion pieces on it already.
Ha - Laurie Penny would be calling for a Tory-only death-penalty.
Comments
It has nothing to do with delusion and everything about honesty.
For example, your own position would be far better if you were honest and simply admitted your refusal to back Scotland is entirely based on your current position and that you have been reasonably successful thanks to your hard work/luck/family connections and do not wish to accept any risk to your position (no matter how small) and feel in a good enough position to guarantee your children's own success on the base of your own wealth and contacts. That's a perfectly understandable and honest position.
But you don't want to be honest, the Loyalist cause is filled with lies and nonsense designed to obfuscate and frighten. We know the position of a colonial power to its satellites, the wealth and power flows from the outside to the centre, in our case London and nothing changes this.
No matter how poor the satellite gets (as in the case of Wales) the centre keeps pulling wealth and talent out of the satellite to the centre.
The good part is that enough people have seen past the lies and fear, with open eyes they understand just how one sided the Scottish position is within the Union, how detrimental the Union is to Scotland's future and how nothing about the United Kingdom can change enough to stop the negative far outweighing the tenuous positives.
It's over, it's just a question of time.
Tick Tock.
EDIT Oh and then he spoils it by getting partisan, silly nitwit.
Completely lacking in authenticity
If that is doing well, I hate to see him doing badly
Someone associated with Independence over 4 years ago might have a different view to the SNP. Shocking. One person's difference of opinion surely undermines everything.
Oh wait...
http://bit.ly/1QMhuuK
Looks quite smart for once rather than bought from a charity shop.
http://exportbritain.org.uk/market-snapshots/turkey.html
Re oil: I'm sorry, wishing it to be the case doesn't make it so.
Remember natural gas in the US. It was $13/mcf and that stimulated fracking.
The price then fell to $4, and the consensus was "shale gas requires $8 to be profitable. therefore, the price will rapidly recover to at least $8."
The price of natural gas is now - what - $2 in the US.
If you believe the price of oil will be well above $113 in the next three years, can I suggest you sell your house and buy 2018 oil futures. For WTI they are current currently at $53.
Titters.... he doesn't sound that solid in his piece
Nicola answers every difficult question with "Look at the polls"
Now Angus Robertson says action in Syria should be driven by an opinion poll
Can't be outsourced to an opinion poll either
Cameron has had opportunity to take Corbyn's head off on security. Hasn't done it. Tories really do have strategy of trying to protect him.
Now out of date as Cameron goes on to attack over shoot-to-kill
July 2013 was 'over 4 years ago'.....
But you were warned......
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/17/scottish-independence-after-the-flag-waving
A Jockanese-Clown says that "...the UK will launch independent air-attacks on Syria...." How shyte is Scotland's media: We are 'Johnnie-come-latelies"; we are procrastanating due to 'bennie-monkies'...?
Your tribalism is both embarrassing and unbecoming, it means that when you have a substantial case to make it will be weakened by your propensity to defend Cameron in any circumstances.
There is a story about an emperor who had some new clothes, look it up.
He still supports Independence.
But then, if all you read are Loyalist lies from Ruth and co, it's understandable that you might miss that
Away from #PMQs , Ken Livingstone repeatedly refuses to apologise for his comments about Kevan Jone's depression
So Corbyn has to sack him now surely?
Or can he? isn't it the NEC decision?
Bell stopped working for the SNP over 4 years ago.
With humour, unless you're going for a Sir Humphrey monologue, it's usually the case that the fewest words have greatest impact. Similarly for political statements (veni, vidi, vici, or we shall fight them on the beaches etc).
Banging on for ages is for people wanting to obfuscate, and for people who are more interested in their own voice than the answer.
PMQs - Snap verdict: It took a while for Cameron to deliver the decisive blow, but he got there right at the end, with his well-polished “Kalashnikov-wielding terrorist” line. It was a tad unfair (because we can presume that in these circumstances Corbyn does approve of the trigger being pulled), but the Labour leader has only himself to blame because of hopeless woolliness of his response to a question on this in his BBC interview on Monday.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/nov/18/ken-livingstone-to-co-chair-labours-trident-review-politics-live#block-564c6bfbe4b0e98c91b0d4c8
2013
4 years ago...
Now their complaining because some supporters of Independence have different points of view.
Lol, make up your mind. You'd think with the typical Loyalist's low IQ, that wouldn't take long.
We surely need to call them "mal pensant" now.......
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/17/alex-salmond-aide-alex-bell-scottish
SNP and maths......
It's over. You lost.
Move on with your life before your hatred for the Patriots that saved the Nation destroys you.
He may be a shit but he may as well be an honest shit rather than a dishonest one.
2013
4 years ago...
My error, I believed he left shortly after the 2011 win. Apologies.
In any case, it's before the White Paper was published, so it still confirms Ruth is lying.
https://t.co/5Hy5AwhWXU https://t.co/o53StSI2uu
You'd think these experienced lefty Labour people would know better. It's almost as if they are out to deliberately wreck the image of the party. Bizarre stuff.
Generally good news on UK earnings from @ONS (1): biggest rise in real pay for over 10 years
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUGCKnWWUAYc1UZ.jpg
Chris Giles @ChrisGiles_ · 2m2 minutes ago
Generally good news on UK earnings from @ONS (2): gap between high and low earnings constant for 18 years
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUGDHy-WwAAJY88.jpg
Chris Giles @ChrisGiles_ · 55s56 seconds ago
Generally good news on UK earnings from @ONS (3): Gender pay gap gone for FT people under 40
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUGDdSBWEAADVYS.jpg
A government elected on an independence platform makes a virtue of saying it is putting no effort into researching independence. Instead of this being taken as a terrible admission of failure, it is hailed as proof that no new referendum is imminent. The core policy, one with huge implications for every citizen of the land, is proudly not worked upon. It’s like the Labour government of 1945 boasting it knows nothing about how to set up a National Health Service.
Even more bizarre, SNP supporters approve of this. Where once the movement decried the un-examined state, now it colludes in obscuring the facts. For many decades the party called for Scotland to have an independent economic forecasting unit. Now it is in power it actively talks down the value of impartial macro-economic research. Similarly, the SNP of a few years ago would have killed for a fiscal institute shedding light on our tax base , but the Scottish Government resists cries for such a thing. And the party faithful applaud, as if information itself were now an enemy of destiny.
http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is-dead-start-again-or-shut-up
As a Unionist I have far more to fear from the analysis of Alex Bell than the (frankly rather pathetic) tub-thumping bellicosity of some 'macho' (sic) posters on here....
But the fact he did that and Ken knew he did that and then attacked him for being depressed is just..... well, fecking stupid.
What's wrong with these people?!!
Will it turn up on News at 1?
Stop watching LG83/RTV24 impetance. France cannot afford sufficient Tier-One escorts; our carriers are still being awaitened....
* T45s do the same for the Septics. As for "Advanced" T45; Geoff 'the' Hoon killed that batch. [Italian pensions and such-like.]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
It's unbelievable. It's like mocking someone for having cancer.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
:nuff-zed:
DYOR
Are the moderates going to do anything? no. That is what is so delicious. It isn;t just the left of labour that is being exposed. Its the jellyfish right of the party.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
I thought the Tories were "the nasty Party".. I can't recall anything quite like this (but my memory is degrading as my circuits fail)
Invite him round for a nice cup of tea before not sacking him
It might be illegal to bribe the electorate to win a seat. But it seems perfectly acceptable to bribe the party electorate in order to become a candidate.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/14031594.No_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch__Ousted_MP_Anas_Sawar_throwing_banquet_for_scores_of_Scottish_Labour_faithful/?ref=rss
Fair play to him on the grooming scandals though, I think the toll that took on him is what did for his marriage and has lead to some personal issues.
This stuff is off the charts of acceptable even using the broadest definition - and still they mostly stand around looking at their shoes.
Faisal Islam just mentioned it on Sky News.
If I were high-up in the Labour party I'd be knocking a lot of heads together. They blame Blairites and Murdoch and the Right Wing Press but what they need to blame is their complete lack of self-awareness. I've never seen a major political party in such an uncivilised, indisciplined mess.
If it were a tory saying that, the Guardian would have had 4 opinion pieces on it already.
He is ramping up Hilary Benn instead of JC.
Ha - Laurie Penny would be calling for a Tory-only death-penalty.