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  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Out of interest is Livingstone currently an elected representative and if not who pays his wages?

    Given his "companies": Family-Tax-Credits.... :(
    Sorry I don't follow. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious who/what Livingstone is these days

    He'll have a decent pension as a former MP. Presumably he has another pension as a former Mayor of London (though I don't know about that for sure).

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Jake_Wilde: Corbyn appoints a man to look after Maria Eagle
    https://t.co/5Hy5AwhWXU https://t.co/o53StSI2uu

    Corbyn's equal opportunites executive in action:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
    They talk about Tories living in the past. Corbyn's world. WOMEN KNOW YOUR PLACE. Dixon of Dock Green is an accurate representation of crime fighting in London.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Has he just realised that he's backed himself into a corner with the upcoming Autumn Statement and now realises he's about to kill off the UK IT industry?
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    An interesting dilemma for Labour ... do they oppose Jezza when he talks about security and tried to lose even the most committed supporter, or do they shout him down and look like a divided party? I suspect the latter is less damaging.

    The best option may be a shoot to kill policy on Jezza.

    It seems to me that there was a certain degree of coordination in yesterday's questions designed to undermine Jezza. I think they're probably waiting for a trigger event to attempt a coup. Could be the Syria vote, or losing Oldham, but after yesterday I do think the end is likely to come quite soon. Certainly hope so.
    What route do you see to the end? If Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to go, how are his opponents going to make him? If he's directly challenged by the Parliamentary Labour Party, he'd explicitly run against them and in all probability win. If they try to exclude him from the ballot paper 1) they may not be able to 2) even if they're able to he may in practice get the necessary number of nominations 3) if they succeed in excluding him, the membership will correctly see this as a contempt for democracy.
    I'm not sure the parliamentary party care too much if the Labour membership see such a move as contempt for democracy. They mass nominated Gordon Brown to the exclusion of all others, and imposed him as PM on the rest of us without any vote whatsoever.

    The key thing is excluding him from the ballot paper.

    Could Corbyn find 35 MPs to nominate him again, or just be stuck at his fan club of 20-25?
    Michael Howard was imposed on Tory members without a vote by MPs after IDS
    After IDS resigned.
    Correct me if I am wrong, this is supposed to be a betting site for experts on politics isn't it?
    Wrong, IDS did not resign he lost a vote of No confidence amongst Tory MPs. Even though he won 60% of Tory members votes in 2001 the Tory Party did not split apart when Michael Howard replaced him though a few members went to UKIP
    In other words ... after IDS resigned.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,740
    The Labour Party today reminds me of the last days of the Roman Empire but without the sex, orgies, and general Bacchanalian fun.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,449
    Literally open warfare within the PLP now. It is becoming farcical.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    John Mann on whether he has confidence on Corbyn: “I have total faith and confidence, as does everyone in the PLP, in Hilary Benn.” #bbcdp

    Blimey, that's a zinger. - the knives are out for sure.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Might buy some more Lisa Nandy shares after that edition of the Daily Politics. Pretty assured in the circumstances.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Asked if Ken cd be axed from new post, source close to Corbyn: "if that's to change, it wd have to be a decison of the NEC". Not JC? "NEC"

    Jezza can't sack him...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    So we have Red Ken mocking somebody who has suffered mental health issues and Dianne Abbott doing her Christmas Cards during a meeting centred around the small matter of 130 people slaughtered on the streets of Paris by Islamist terrorists.

    Imagine what they will be like back in government.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    TBH, I thought the Corbynista patronising attitude to women was more cock-up than anything else - but it's happened so often that it's a definite pattern of behaviour.

    This Ken thing is just bizarre - he knows nothing about defence, isn't anything other than Jezza's mate and he gets to boss the ShDSec about on Labour's policy?

    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Jake_Wilde: Corbyn appoints a man to look after Maria Eagle
    https://t.co/5Hy5AwhWXU https://t.co/o53StSI2uu

    Corbyn's equal opportunites executive in action:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
    They talk about Tories living in the past. Corbyn's world. WOMEN KNOW YOUR PLACE. Dixon of Dock Green is an accurate representation of crime fighting in London.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362

    The Labour Party today reminds me of the last days of the Roman Empire but without the sex, orgies, and general Bacchanalian fun.

    So more like the fall of Nicolae Ceaușescu's Romania then?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,750

    Might buy some more Lisa Nandy shares after that edition of the Daily Politics. Pretty assured in the circumstances.

    Can you get on with Fred ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    John Mann on whether he has confidence on Corbyn: “I have total faith and confidence, as does everyone in the PLP, in Hilary Benn.” #bbcdp

    There is something terribly wrong with your party when John Mann is the person speaking the most sense.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Out of interest is Livingstone currently an elected representative and if not who pays his wages?

    Given his "companies": Family-Tax-Credits.... :(
    Sorry I don't follow. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious who/what Livingstone is these days

    He'll have a decent pension as a former MP. Presumably he has another pension as a former Mayor of London (though I don't know about that for sure).

    Yes that makes sense, I'm always surprised how the same people keep turning up and where they get the money from. Thanks.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    An interesting dilemma for Labour ... do they oppose Jezza when he talks about security and tried to lose even the most committed supporter, or do they shout him down and look like a divided party? I suspect the latter is less damaging.

    The best option may be a shoot to kill policy on Jezza.

    It seems to me that there was a certain degree of coordination in yesterday's questions designed to undermine Jezza. I think they're probably waiting for a trigger event to attempt a coup. Could be the Syria vote, or losing Oldham, but after yesterday I do think the end is likely to come quite soon. Certainly hope so.
    What route do you see to the end? If Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to go, how are his opponents going to make him? If he's directly challenged by the Parliamentary Labour Party, he'd explicitly run against them and in all probability win. If they try to exclude him from the ballot paper 1) they may not be able to 2) even if they're able to he may in practice get the necessary number of nominations 3) if they succeed in excluding him, the membership will correctly see this as a contempt for democracy.
    I'm not sure the parliamentary party care too much if the Labour membership see such a move as contempt for democracy. They mass nominated Gordon Brown to the exclusion of all others, and imposed him as PM on the rest of us without any vote whatsoever.

    The key thing is excluding him from the ballot paper.

    Could Corbyn find 35 MPs to nominate him again, or just be stuck at his fan club of 20-25?
    Michael Howard was imposed on Tory members without a vote by MPs after IDS
    After IDS resigned.
    Correct me if I am wrong, this is supposed to be a betting site for experts on politics isn't it?
    Wrong, IDS did not resign he lost a vote of No confidence amongst Tory MPs. Even though he won 60% of Tory members votes in 2001 the Tory Party did not split apart when Michael Howard replaced him though a few members went to UKIP
    In other words ... after IDS resigned.
    No IDS was sacked by Tory MPs he did not resign but stood in the no confidence vote
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    TBH, I thought the Corbynista patronising attitude to women was more cock-up than anything else - but it's happened so often that it's a definite pattern of behaviour.

    This Ken thing is just bizarre - he knows nothing about defence, isn't anything other than Jezza's mate and he gets to boss the ShDSec about on Labour's policy?

    chestnut said:

    Scott_P said:

    @Jake_Wilde: Corbyn appoints a man to look after Maria Eagle
    https://t.co/5Hy5AwhWXU https://t.co/o53StSI2uu

    Corbyn's equal opportunites executive in action:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w
    They talk about Tories living in the past. Corbyn's world. WOMEN KNOW YOUR PLACE. Dixon of Dock Green is an accurate representation of crime fighting in London.
    It shows that those whom we assume are Corbyn's acolytes are really the ones pulling his strings. He's not very bright.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    The Labour Party today reminds me of the last days of the Roman Empire but without the sex, orgies, and general Bacchanalian fun.

    So more like the fall of Nicolae Ceaușescu's Romania then?
    I know some Romanians, they aren't as critical of him as I suspected.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,135
    edited 2015 18

    John Mann on whether he has confidence on Corbyn: “I have total faith and confidence, as does everyone in the PLP, in Hilary Benn.” #bbcdp

    There is something terribly wrong with your party when John Mann is the person speaking the most sense.
    Hilary Benn is clearly the leader in waiting it is just when now not if, 2017 is my guess
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Out of interest is Livingstone currently an elected representative and if not who pays his wages?

    Given his "companies": Family-Tax-Credits.... :(
    Sorry I don't follow. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious who/what Livingstone is these days

    He'll have a decent pension as a former MP. Presumably he has another pension as a former Mayor of London (though I don't know about that for sure).

    Yes that makes sense, I'm always surprised how the same people keep turning up and where they get the money from. Thanks.

    Don't forget his earnings from his media activities. And IIRC that sort of income goes through a shell company so that he can avoid paying income tax as far as possible!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Everybody hit the floor and I stood there thinking 'Is this what French people do when they hear fireworks?'

    'Next thing my husband grabs me and uses me as a battering ram to get to a fire exit.'

    Miraculously the husband and wife were unharmed but Mr Sanders suffered a broken collarbone.

    The trio were among a group of seven pals who attended the concert. Two of the group - Frenchwoman Karen Bourdillat and Londoner Mark Backwell - were shot but survived the massacre.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3323568/British-couple-went-Bataclan-theatre-rescue-friend-trampled-stampede.html#ixzz3rqeEybCB
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,368
    How can Jezza sack him?

    He appointed him knowing the character of the beast. If it starts biting, whose fault is that?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362

    The Labour Party today reminds me of the last days of the Roman Empire but without the sex, orgies, and general Bacchanalian fun.

    So more like the fall of Nicolae Ceaușescu's Romania then?
    I know some Romanians, they aren't as critical of him as I suspected.

    Bit late for that now!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,451
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Cameron to police: "If you have a terrorist threatening to kill people, you can, indeed you must, use lethal force."

    On 'shoot to kill' there's a difference between shoot-first-ask-questions-later and shoot-with-lethal-force-to-defend-against-armed-person-who-represents-clear-and-present-danger-to-life.

    Does Corbyn understand the difference?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Do you still think British troops in Iraq were "occupiers", @MrHarryCole asks @SeumasMilne? Answer: "We don't comment on staff issues".
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Out of interest is Livingstone currently an elected representative and if not who pays his wages?

    Given his "companies": Family-Tax-Credits.... :(
    Sorry I don't follow. I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious who/what Livingstone is these days

    He'll have a decent pension as a former MP. Presumably he has another pension as a former Mayor of London (though I don't know about that for sure).

    Yes that makes sense, I'm always surprised how the same people keep turning up and where they get the money from. Thanks.

    Don't forget his earnings from his media activities. And IIRC that sort of income goes through a shell company so that he can avoid paying income tax as far as possible!
    Putting it through a shell company doesn't exempt income from income tax ( you still pay tax, just called corporation tax until you take over the higher limit at which point you pay the higher rate)
    It does however mean that the income is not considered for NI.

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    Might buy some more Lisa Nandy shares after that edition of the Daily Politics. Pretty assured in the circumstances.

    Can you get on with Fred ?
    Hahaha.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    edited 2015 18

    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Has he just realised that he's backed himself into a corner with the upcoming Autumn Statement and now realises he's about to kill off the UK IT industry?
    Kill off the UK IT industry? I am not surprised if that is true Cameron and Co seem quite content if industries die because of their policies such as what passes for an energy policy in their eyes. However, I wasn't aware of anything new going on the will affect the IT industry. Care to elaborate, Mr. Barber?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :lol:
    Scott_P said:

    @tnewtondunn: Do you still think British troops in Iraq were "occupiers", @MrHarryCole asks @SeumasMilne? Answer: "We don't comment on staff issues".

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    edited 2015 18


    OK to clarify - is Turkey vital to our economy?

    Yes, of course it is. Perhaps you disagree (I suppose it depends what one means by 'vital'). Fair enough. I don't think you are being duplicitous in disagreeing with me. We just disagree. The difference is that for some bizarre reason Kippers can't seem to have a discussion without throwing around barmy accusations of dishonesty.

    It's a very curious psychological phenomenon, which I don't understand.
    Since we don't have access to polygraph data on every political statement, I'm not sure what it would take for you to doubt the sincerity of a politician, let alone of David Cameron or a member of his inner circle. You seem quite keen on accusing the alleged victims of high level child abuse of dishonesty, or indeed policemen who accuse Government Ministers of calling them plebs, but favour high level Tory politicians with a sort of masonic wink of assumed innocence.

    Like 90% of your output, your posts on this offer an eloquent style, but zero substance or credibility, because you are transparently a Cameron fanboy.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    My cartoon Wednesday @TheTimes on the #ParisAttacks fallout #JeremyCorbyn https://t.co/RUeFa9TYhy
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    The election of Jeremy Corbyn has finally shown the world the nature of the glue holding Labour together - hate. It used to be Tories were the object of that hatred. Nowadays, a Labour colleague is a far juicier target...
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Alex Bell, who quit as head of Alex Salmond's policy unit in July after two years working on his independence strategy, said the first minister was failing to present a radical, daring vision for Scotland and so was facing defeat in next year's referendum.
    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/sep/17/alex-salmond-aide-alex-bell-scottish

    2013

    4 years ago...
    My error, I believed he left shortly after the 2011 win. Apologies.

    In any case, it's before the White Paper was published, so it still confirms Ruth is lying.

    You are in error she lies.
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626

    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Has he just realised that he's backed himself into a corner with the upcoming Autumn Statement and now realises he's about to kill off the UK IT industry?
    Kill off the UK IT industry? I am not surprised if that is true Cameron and Co seem quite content if industries die because of their policies such as what passes for an energy policy in their eyes. However, I wasn't aware of anything new going on the will affect the IT industry. Care to elaborate, Mr. Barber?
    IT contractors raise alarm over HMRC mulling 'one-month' nudge onto payrolls

    “The flexible labour market is at stake here. That same flexible labour market has helped us keep unemployment at record lows. The tax system should reflect how people in the UK work, not how HMRC wants them to work. This kind of measure could have a dramatic and devastating impact.”
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,016

    The Labour Party today reminds me of the last days of the Roman Empire but without the sex, orgies, and general Bacchanalian fun.

    Are you sure about that? Just asking!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Earlier this year I think it was Mr TSE who said it was a great time to be a tory.

    I don't think anybody realised just how great it would be.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I thought a Comrade Corbyn reign would be entertaining - but this first few weeks have surpassed my wildest expectations.

    The election of Jeremy Corbyn has finally shown the world the nature of the glue holding Labour together - hate. It used to be Tories were the object of that hatred. Nowadays, a Labour colleague is a far juicier target...

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IsabelHardman: Spokesman said Corbyn wants a proper apology from Ken but that he was the right person to lead balanced review on "sensitive" topic

    So ken remains in post...

    @jameskirkup: Ken Livingstone is a hate-filled cockroach. Jeremy Corbyn must sack him or share his disgrace | via @Telegraph https://t.co/aefoS3QcP2
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @tnewtondunn: Does Jeremy agree with Ken that Paris was caused by Iraq war? @SeumasMilne: "Wider interventions have fuelled not contained terrorism".
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    New Thread
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited 2015 18
    Scott_P said:

    @IsabelHardman: Spokesman said Corbyn wants a proper apology from Ken but that he was the right person to lead balanced review on "sensitive" topic

    So ken remains in post...

    I hope Ken does remain in post. His 'balanced review' is going to be a hoot.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Has he just realised that he's backed himself into a corner with the upcoming Autumn Statement and now realises he's about to kill off the UK IT industry?
    Kill off the UK IT industry? I am not surprised if that is true Cameron and Co seem quite content if industries die because of their policies such as what passes for an energy policy in their eyes. However, I wasn't aware of anything new going on the will affect the IT industry. Care to elaborate, Mr. Barber?
    IT contractors raise alarm over HMRC mulling 'one-month' nudge onto payrolls

    “The flexible labour market is at stake here. That same flexible labour market has helped us keep unemployment at record lows. The tax system should reflect how people in the UK work, not how HMRC wants them to work. This kind of measure could have a dramatic and devastating impact.”
    Thank you for that. I agree it sounds like HMRC is making a silly mistake but on the other hand I well remember the prognostications of doom when IR35 was introduced. So I doubt the effect of the new rules will be as bad as people are making out.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,013
    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Asked if Ken cd be axed from new post, source close to Corbyn: "if that's to change, it wd have to be a decison of the NEC". Not JC? "NEC"

    Jezza can't sack him...

    Does anyone think that if Corbyn put down a motion to the NEC proposing that, it wouldn't be carried?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    new thread

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,254
    edited 2015 18
    Dear god just catching up with the DP interview with John Woodcock.

    Seems a decent enough bloke and you have absolutely got to feel for him and it showed how uncomfortable he was and how honourable in trying to do the best thing in this super-100% bonkers can't f**king believe it Labour Party.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Does not look well. Showing the strain.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    So we have Red Ken mocking somebody who has suffered mental health issues and Dianne Abbott doing her Christmas Cards during a meeting centred around the small matter of 130 people slaughtered on the streets of Paris by Islamist terrorists.

    Imagine what they will be like back in government.

    The London Laboursaurs.

    Even at PMQ's - Corbyn's question about the police was about London policing. Forget everywhere else.

    There is no territory of any interest between inner London and Beirut for Corbyn.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Has he just realised that he's backed himself into a corner with the upcoming Autumn Statement and now realises he's about to kill off the UK IT industry?
    Kill off the UK IT industry? I am not surprised if that is true Cameron and Co seem quite content if industries die because of their policies such as what passes for an energy policy in their eyes. However, I wasn't aware of anything new going on the will affect the IT industry. Care to elaborate, Mr. Barber?
    IT contractors raise alarm over HMRC mulling 'one-month' nudge onto payrolls

    “The flexible labour market is at stake here. That same flexible labour market has helped us keep unemployment at record lows. The tax system should reflect how people in the UK work, not how HMRC wants them to work. This kind of measure could have a dramatic and devastating impact.”
    Thank you for that. I agree it sounds like HMRC is making a silly mistake but on the other hand I well remember the prognostications of doom when IR35 was introduced. So I doubt the effect of the new rules will be as bad as people are making out.

    Self employment is an excuse to use expenses to pay less tax. The central question should be how many firms provides you with your income ? If only one or two, you are not self-employed.

    A self employed BBC newsreader is a joke ! He/she does the same job as a salaried person.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Barnesian said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Watson has a perpetual frown on his face, it hasn't changed in his master speaks.

    Look at Osborne's face. It is a ghastly mask. What is wrong with him?
    Does not look well. Showing the strain.
    Trying to keep a straight face. The other thing is is was watching a horror show.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    HYUFD said:

    CD13 said:

    An interesting dilemma for Labour ... do they oppose Jezza when he talks about security and tried to lose even the most committed supporter, or do they shout him down and look like a divided party? I suspect the latter is less damaging.

    The best option may be a shoot to kill policy on Jezza.

    It seems to me that there was a certain degree of coordination in yesterday's questions designed to undermine Jezza. I think they're probably waiting for a trigger event to attempt a coup. Could be the Syria vote, or losing Oldham, but after yesterday I do think the end is likely to come quite soon. Certainly hope so.
    What route do you see to the end? If Jeremy Corbyn doesn't want to go, how are his opponents going to make him? If he's directly challenged by the Parliamentary Labour Party, he'd explicitly run against them and in all probability win. If they try to exclude him from the ballot paper 1) they may not be able to 2) even if they're able to he may in practice get the necessary number of nominations 3) if they succeed in excluding him, the membership will correctly see this as a contempt for democracy.
    I'm not sure the parliamentary party care too much if the Labour membership see such a move as contempt for democracy. They mass nominated Gordon Brown to the exclusion of all others, and imposed him as PM on the rest of us without any vote whatsoever.

    The key thing is excluding him from the ballot paper.

    Could Corbyn find 35 MPs to nominate him again, or just be stuck at his fan club of 20-25?
    Michael Howard was imposed on Tory members without a vote by MPs after IDS
    After IDS resigned.
    Correct me if I am wrong, this is supposed to be a betting site for experts on politics isn't it?
    We have to be experts?! Sh*t.

    Enthusiasts, perhaps.
This discussion has been closed.